By the way, Innovation should get "the biggest game in the smallest box" award ;). It has depth and decision space of a full-scale euro. And it's just a tiny box with a deck of cards.
One great thing about Innovation is the multiple end-game / victory conditions. It means when it looks like you're in a losing position with respect to one of those conditions, you can always think about whether one of the other possibilities is what you should go for instead. The high level of randomness and asymmetry in Innovation means there are often situations that feel unfair, but you'll almost never run into a situation which is totally hopeless and totally without information to analyse about your best path forward. So... you learn to play flexibly and with an open mind, thinking about how best to make use of what is available to you. Often you end up finding something surprising, some combination that never appeared to you before, even across hundreds of previous games.
Enjoyed the video, Jamey. Innovation really does have some interesting mechanisms at play. You might also find the designer's game Mottainai interesting. Plenty of multi-use cards in another dueling game. There's also a great implementation of Innovation on BGA if you are looking for an online version!
I also love the follow along feature, but I like that if I see my opponent has more symbols than me, I can force them to take the action and get a bonus card out of it.
So glad you enjoyed your play! This is my absolutely favourite tableau builder of all time, especially with Figures in the Sand expansion. An EXCELLENT 2-player game. Almost nothing is capped here, if you manage to find a killer "broken" combo or synergy, the game allows you to do it. It's not yet another generic "once per round, exchange 2 wood for 2 VPs or 4 wood for 6 VPs" "type of a "safe" tableau builder. It's wild, swingy, super interactive and just FUN. Innovation lets you feel creative and powerful.
@@jameystegmaier I absolutely understand everyone who loathes this design for its wild "unfair" nature and I never try to defend it. But this is love it or hate it type of a game. I love the sense of progression it offers (you really feel power creep in higher decks as your civilization gains access to higher level technology) as well and instant win conditions that become available in the last few ages. Even if you feel like you are losing on achievements, you can shoot for the moon and try to get to those highest piles and win this way. You are never truly out of the game here as one card might change everything ;). If you get familiar and comfortable with the game, try Figures in the Sand expansion - it adds a ton of depth and interesting choices (Echoes of the Past is great as well).
There are "safe early scorers" for example pottery/argiculture/currency. And they are complemnted by "early risky scorers" , Matalworking/Optics/Alchemy, "niche but sometimes powerful" Clothing/Calanbuilding , and more or less powerful attacks stealing cards (And even that safe early cards can be powerful in specific conditions thanks to the empty pile rules :) ) .There is lot of effects that add resources ( cards in hand /in play/from opponents) into score( or transfer -there is a distinction). They just are not named as resources. But innovation has all the signs of multiple use of cards from other Chudyk's games Developmnet 5 of different spheres of civilisations is also unnamed by game rules , but present in gameplay in form of color of the cards. The stages are: - no card in color - a card in color- some icons and an ability - multiple cards in color but unsplayed - possibily to store cards in play and prepare for splaying ( or for example mining with Coal) - splay left more icons -splay right - splay up. So it is "splay blue up" instead of "advance science to level 5". Common misconception for Innovation is disconnected from civilisation theme. But it is rather that players are allowed to build metaphor themselves , not getting it spoon-fed. Cards in play can be also seen as land - and splaying maens efficiency in managing land and its resources. So City expansion cards have no Dogmas , but 2 more icons. Leader inplemneted in figures each have unique game changing ability, but only one per player is alloved the old one must fade away.
@@jameystegmaier No. Base game is tame and quiet ( until age 8 of course). Echoes is wild and swingy versions of base cards. and on the top of scale Artifacts are too wild and broken for most of the players :)
I discovered Innovation in 2010 and have played 40 times over the years. The game has little artwork, but I love how thematic the abilities in each card are. It really makes me feel like I’m using that technology. And some cards work really well together, like bicycle and suburbia. It’s meaner than most euros, and the randomness and sheer variety of abilities encourage tactical play over pursuing a grand strategy. But every game plays differently. I also like the power creep and how higher level cards can feel so powerful you think they must break the game. Also, the atomic bomb (a level 8 card) is a favorite card of mine, if it goes off you remove all cards from players’ tableau’s from the game, causing everyone to start all over, although they quickly race forward, because of all the cards that are missing from the game. It’s a neat way to reset the game if you feel like your opponents have more icons, or more powerful cards.
I really like the "open 2 actions" turn structure. It really changes game rythm from usual chess tic -tac tactics into tic-tic-tac-tac It allows answer and contrattack , get score and achieve and many other combination in base game . When playing with expansions foreshadow/echoes?karma mechanics really open Pandora's box of combining various cards :) And online implementation on yucatta is really superior in regard of implemented expansions and QoG improvements (undo, deck preview etc )
I have my copy set up in a bigger "deluxe" box - so that there is no set up when playing - all the ages and expansions are seperated so you can play with what you want. Just grab your two starting cards and get playing. Favorite thing is that each age can be seen as an effective top card for the winning player.
@@jameystegmaier so glad you got to play and hope you two find more enjoyment out of it. If you find two others who like it - some people think it works great as a 2v2 team game - it is definitely less stressful than captain sonar and less set up than Guards of Atlantis 😂
It’s one of my favorite 2 player games in general, but it can be hard to get to the table because some people hate how swingy it is. I have all the expansions but still haven’t played most of them because I end up teaching the game to a new player most of the time I play, and this is not a game where you can throw a newbie into the expansions right away. (Note: I’m single and don’t always have people to game with, otherwise I’d play it more often. But my game group plays 4 to 5 player stuff, and this game just isn’t their style.)
I've heard similar things about playing Innovation at higher player counts, and I can see how some players wouldn't like the swingy nature (I rather enjoy that aspect of it).
By the way, Innovation should get "the biggest game in the smallest box" award ;). It has depth and decision space of a full-scale euro. And it's just a tiny box with a deck of cards.
I think that award goes to another game by the same designer:) Mottanai is the one I'm thinking of:)
@@EmilioRodo aaaw I've never played it. I've only tried Glory to Rome and it's great as well.
One great thing about Innovation is the multiple end-game / victory conditions. It means when it looks like you're in a losing position with respect to one of those conditions, you can always think about whether one of the other possibilities is what you should go for instead. The high level of randomness and asymmetry in Innovation means there are often situations that feel unfair, but you'll almost never run into a situation which is totally hopeless and totally without information to analyse about your best path forward. So... you learn to play flexibly and with an open mind, thinking about how best to make use of what is available to you. Often you end up finding something surprising, some combination that never appeared to you before, even across hundreds of previous games.
Enjoyed the video, Jamey. Innovation really does have some interesting mechanisms at play. You might also find the designer's game Mottainai interesting. Plenty of multi-use cards in another dueling game. There's also a great implementation of Innovation on BGA if you are looking for an online version!
Thanks Clark! I need to try Motainai, and I'm ashamed to say I haven't even played Glory to Rome. :)
I also love the follow along feature, but I like that if I see my opponent has more symbols than me, I can force them to take the action and get a bonus card out of it.
Ninjaed :)
So glad you enjoyed your play! This is my absolutely favourite tableau builder of all time, especially with Figures in the Sand expansion. An EXCELLENT 2-player game. Almost nothing is capped here, if you manage to find a killer "broken" combo or synergy, the game allows you to do it. It's not yet another generic "once per round, exchange 2 wood for 2 VPs or 4 wood for 6 VPs" "type of a "safe" tableau builder. It's wild, swingy, super interactive and just FUN. Innovation lets you feel creative and powerful.
Totally! I like how wild and swingy it is.
@@jameystegmaier I absolutely understand everyone who loathes this design for its wild "unfair" nature and I never try to defend it. But this is love it or hate it type of a game. I love the sense of progression it offers (you really feel power creep in higher decks as your civilization gains access to higher level technology) as well and instant win conditions that become available in the last few ages. Even if you feel like you are losing on achievements, you can shoot for the moon and try to get to those highest piles and win this way. You are never truly out of the game here as one card might change everything ;). If you get familiar and comfortable with the game, try Figures in the Sand expansion - it adds a ton of depth and interesting choices (Echoes of the Past is great as well).
There are "safe early scorers" for example pottery/argiculture/currency. And they are complemnted by "early risky scorers" , Matalworking/Optics/Alchemy, "niche but sometimes powerful" Clothing/Calanbuilding , and more or less powerful attacks stealing cards (And even that safe early cards can be powerful in specific conditions thanks to the empty pile rules :) )
.There is lot of effects that add resources ( cards in hand /in play/from opponents) into score( or transfer -there is a distinction). They just are not named as resources. But innovation has all the signs of multiple use of cards from other Chudyk's games
Developmnet 5 of different spheres of civilisations is also unnamed by game rules , but present in gameplay in form of color of the cards.
The stages are:
- no card in color
- a card in color- some icons and an ability
- multiple cards in color but unsplayed - possibily to store cards in play and prepare for splaying ( or for example mining with Coal)
- splay left more icons
-splay right
- splay up.
So it is "splay blue up" instead of "advance science to level 5".
Common misconception for Innovation is disconnected from civilisation theme.
But it is rather that players are allowed to build metaphor themselves , not getting it spoon-fed.
Cards in play can be also seen as land - and splaying maens efficiency in managing land and its resources. So City expansion cards have no Dogmas , but 2 more icons.
Leader inplemneted in figures each have unique game changing ability, but only one per player is alloved the old one must fade away.
@@jameystegmaier No. Base game is tame and quiet ( until age 8 of course). Echoes is wild and swingy versions of base cards. and on the top of scale Artifacts are too wild and broken for most of the players :)
I like how polite you are. You didn't say anything about graphic design of the Innovation.
I just love how unique this game feels.... at least it doesn't really remind me of anything else in my collection!
I discovered Innovation in 2010 and have played 40 times over the years. The game has little artwork, but I love how thematic the abilities in each card are. It really makes me feel like I’m using that technology. And some cards work really well together, like bicycle and suburbia. It’s meaner than most euros, and the randomness and sheer variety of abilities encourage tactical play over pursuing a grand strategy. But every game plays differently. I also like the power creep and how higher level cards can feel so powerful you think they must break the game.
Also, the atomic bomb (a level 8 card) is a favorite card of mine, if it goes off you remove all cards from players’ tableau’s from the game, causing everyone to start all over, although they quickly race forward, because of all the cards that are missing from the game. It’s a neat way to reset the game if you feel like your opponents have more icons, or more powerful cards.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Asa. I was really impressed by the theme as well, especially for the abstract veneer.
I really like the "open 2 actions" turn structure. It really changes game rythm from usual chess tic -tac tactics into tic-tic-tac-tac It allows answer and contrattack , get score and achieve and many other combination in base game . When playing with expansions foreshadow/echoes?karma mechanics really open Pandora's box of combining various cards :) And online implementation on yucatta is really superior in regard of implemented expansions and QoG improvements (undo, deck preview etc )
I have my copy set up in a bigger "deluxe" box - so that there is no set up when playing - all the ages and expansions are seperated so you can play with what you want. Just grab your two starting cards and get playing. Favorite thing is that each age can be seen as an effective top card for the winning player.
Thank you so much for sharing this game with me!
@@jameystegmaier so glad you got to play and hope you two find more enjoyment out of it. If you find two others who like it - some people think it works great as a 2v2 team game - it is definitely less stressful than captain sonar and less set up than Guards of Atlantis 😂
It’s one of my favorite 2 player games in general, but it can be hard to get to the table because some people hate how swingy it is. I have all the expansions but still haven’t played most of them because I end up teaching the game to a new player most of the time I play, and this is not a game where you can throw a newbie into the expansions right away. (Note: I’m single and don’t always have people to game with, otherwise I’d play it more often. But my game group plays 4 to 5 player stuff, and this game just isn’t their style.)
I've heard similar things about playing Innovation at higher player counts, and I can see how some players wouldn't like the swingy nature (I rather enjoy that aspect of it).
I really like this game, but it feels a bit too much chaotic for my taste