A correction on the editions: Iello version is the "2nd edition" and has one or two expansions available... whereas the Asmadi games versions are compatible with all of the expansions.
I hope you two keep making videos. Such a delightful playfulness and positivity from both of you. Doesn't hurt that you reviewed one of my favorite games of all time. Looking forward to more.
Thanks so much Adam for this lovely comment. Great to have you here and glad to hear you love Innovation. Any recommendations for expansions? Appreciate you taking the time to write... ☺
First, I believe the base game is perfect the way it is. To this day, I still learn new combos and have new experiences just playing base Innovation. I do, however, enjoy the expansions. The general consensus is that the Echoes expansion is the best, and I agree. With the other expansions, I just have trouble remembering the new actions. For example, the Cities expansion (which has the lowest card complexity as there are no dogmas on them) has a new action, Endorse, that under the right circumstances lets you use a dogma twice AND tuck a card from your hand. Super neat action that I'll ve darned if I can remember to use. But, YMMV. Artifacts is interesting, and I love the Compel mechanic. However I usually forget about my artifact. Figures is neat (though I might be in the minority on that) particularly because you get bonuses when people achieve, but I always want Echoes in the game to make Figures shine. I have played several games with all of the expansions (we call it Supervation!) and that is a real hoot, though I may have lost a small amount of brain function as a result. So, to summarize, for me base is like the Beatles discography-I will likely never run out of new things to discover-and the expansions are like listening to the Beatles members' solo work-great stuff, often challenging, and worth the listen...but I always come back to the original.
Played this at Bordercon just last week in Albury-Wodonga after being blown away by Glory to Rome the year before, my partner and I LOVED this (also Aegean Sea, which is equally chaotic but a little harder to get your head around). We also played Red 7 by the same designer, which was really neat and surprising also. Do you fine folks attend cons in Australia? There is a cool LGBTQIA+ con in Albury-Wodonga called HuMM BuGG Con that we are travelling from Adelaide to hit up next year, They had the most amazing pride pins that we purchased because they were exceptional.
That strategy tangent discussion was very amusing, haha. This little game is still on my "should I pick it up" list, the price point helps with that being in the 'yes' direction. And thanks for the publisher printing version mention, useful to know.
Haha Christopher I (Amy) am still in shock that Maggie was missing the main defence strategy hahahah we look at games so differently it still surprises me :D yes we also picked it up because it is fairly cheap. I think if you're someone who appreciates clever / different / intriguing mechanics this is definitely worth the explore... thanks for taking the time to comment ☺
Such a crazy wonderful perplexing design.... I (Amy) find myself thinking about it all of the time. It is such a small game with such a lasting impact. Glad to hear you love it too and appreciate you taking the time to comment with the kind feedback! Thank you! 😊
This is the perfect review for me. This was one of the first games I purchased when I got into the hobby and I think this game made me lose my closest potential game partner. I am now eager to pull it from the bottom of my pile of shame and try it with a new group of people, but make them watch this review ahead of time so they know what we're getting into :)
So fun to see this game pop back up. Someone brought it to some open game nites when it first came out and we played the heck out of it. Had a great time with it but have not had a chance to play it since. Thanks for the reminder, for $20 definitely going to add this to the collection.
Hah thank you! We were a bit non-committal about our enjoyment of it but it is certainly a design we are in awe of and it leaves us both scratching our heads but also wanting to play again... few games give us this feeling! Thanks for the support as always ☺
I've been interested in this little game for awhile, thanks for the runthrough! Aaaand.. I'm still undecided lol. I am always seeing people rate this high on their geek lists on bgg, but then if you read the comments on the games page on bgg, people passionately dislike it! And now you two come along with a video saying "it's fun, its brutal, its random, its unbalanced, I dont know if I like it or why I want to keep playing it" ...Great!! Haha.. No it does sound like fun, and your video was helpful and its pushed me more towards picking it up. Thanks 😊
Hahahah sorry Ken!! Yes for better or worse we want to be honest about how we feel about games we play and this one has us hooked but it certainly won't be for everyone. The big appeal of the game is the way the mechanics are implemented... you can't help but be in awe of irrespective of whether you enjoy destroying your opponent / enjoy being destroyed 😅 thanks for watching and giving your thoughts as always!!
It is so chaotic but there is some good strategies if you know what you are doing. I love it. Many beginners think it's too random because they don't know how to combat powerful cards. It is tactical.
Case in point, Maggie in this video lolllll.... I (Amy) agree that it is highly tactical. I also just love the experience of not knowing what's around the corner. Have you tried any of the expansions? Thanks for taking the time to comment Laurence. ☺
@@ThinkerThemer I've tried a few of them. They usually make it MORE chaotic so it's good to only play them with people that love Innovation. They each add their own twists and are very interesting. Cities is a nice easy one to add.
Great review of a favorite! Innovation is a Top Ten - even a Top Five game for me. I absolutely love multi-use cards in games, and this game hits the thematic elements of history better (for me) than the acclaimed Glory to Rome. Because in each game some cards will be Achievements (face-down), others taken as Scores (also face-down), one is never certain what cards will be active in a given game, or whether you will have a little time to build up your colors, or else be faced with an over-powering attack like The Pirate Code, or Gunpowder. That said, I played a game this morning where due to another card The Pirate Code switched tableau to a different player, and all of a sudden the score cards stolen by Pirates were seized back to a different set of Pirates. (Arrrrrrrrr!) I first picked Innovation up as a lightly used Test PNP version purchased directly from Chris Cieslik, and I have owned practically every version Asmadi Games has released since then, including the shiny Deluxe Innovation, which includes the base Innovation Game, plus all (4) expansions. As you hinted, the play only gets more crazy as you add in the expansions. I love the base game alone, I love it with expansions, I even love it when someone is absolutely abusing my score pile with a strategy that works. It's a game where things are never exactly the same- and that just makes me excited to pull it out and play it again.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts Edwin!!! So glad to hear you are such a fan. There is no denying the strange and captive hold this game has over us and it's crazy that one small card game can feel so different each and every time you play it. The Deluxe version looks gorgeous and gave me FOMO when I first saw it but for now I feel I have a lot to learn about the base game (and based on Maggie's reaction to my very basic strategy chat... so does she 🤣). Thanks again for sharing and watching! 😊
@@tmills1565 I play most frequently without the expansions, but I have them and have tried them all, and find they work differently, but well. Remembering all the different mechanisms and sorting the cards again are the main reasons I tend to play the base set; lazy, I guess.
@@edwinnealley7832 I totally understand that. I feel like the base is fine for sure. But at some point I’ll want to add some variety. Do you have suggestions on which to get or that you prefer?
So true!!! It is such great value even for the experience of it - that's why we wanted to talk about it because it is so interesting in how it plays. Have you needed to use expansions or tried them? Thanks for taking the time to comment ☺
@@ThinkerThemer I have the Echoes of the Past expansion and have played with it a handful of times when I'm playing someone who really knows the game. It brings us back to that beginning feeling where we're slowly discovering what each card does. That said, I'm totally happy playing without it, the base game provides tons of variation and I'm still seeing rarely used cards shine many plays later.
Thanks Bob for sharing this... it seems like there is some consensus about the base game and its immense replayability!!! We might stick with that for a while as it still feels like we've barely scratched the surface....
Hahaha that is true... we do actually play smaller box games we just haven't quite worked out how we'd like to do the reviews for them. They are easier to do a single round playthrough for example... what would you find most useful? 🙂
@@ThinkerThemer Absolutely! I love small card games as they're quick, can be easily taught. In large groups it's hard to get everyone entertained in a complex 2 hour game. Your thinking and theming aligns with my taste. I'll happily invest in your recommended games. :)
I have a love-hate relationship with this game. My immediate memories involved my husband always getting banking, taking my stuff, me winning with Empiricism on two separate occasions, and losing a game in fifteen minutes to a statue of a Dancing Girl xD
Hahaha soooo true!!! I (Amy) still can't believe Maggie was not aware of the main defence strategy in the game 😂😂😂 thanks for watching Omar! Glad to hear you've been enjoying Obsession.... ☺
@@ThinkerThemer I really enjoy you both and I'm slowly watching older stuff. And thanks, I have been enjoying losing so far. I eventually hope to enjoy winning 🤣
It's definitely more tactics than strategy...! A game that we like to admire for its cleverness but can certainly see it's not for everyone. Thanks James ☺
A correction on the editions: Iello version is the "2nd edition" and has one or two expansions available... whereas the Asmadi games versions are compatible with all of the expansions.
I hope you two keep making videos. Such a delightful playfulness and positivity from both of you. Doesn't hurt that you reviewed one of my favorite games of all time. Looking forward to more.
Thanks so much Adam for this lovely comment. Great to have you here and glad to hear you love Innovation. Any recommendations for expansions? Appreciate you taking the time to write... ☺
First, I believe the base game is perfect the way it is. To this day, I still learn new combos and have new experiences just playing base Innovation. I do, however, enjoy the expansions. The general consensus is that the Echoes expansion is the best, and I agree. With the other expansions, I just have trouble remembering the new actions. For example, the Cities expansion (which has the lowest card complexity as there are no dogmas on them) has a new action, Endorse, that under the right circumstances lets you use a dogma twice AND tuck a card from your hand. Super neat action that I'll ve darned if I can remember to use. But, YMMV.
Artifacts is interesting, and I love the Compel mechanic. However I usually forget about my artifact.
Figures is neat (though I might be in the minority on that) particularly because you get bonuses when people achieve, but I always want Echoes in the game to make Figures shine.
I have played several games with all of the expansions (we call it Supervation!) and that is a real hoot, though I may have lost a small amount of brain function as a result.
So, to summarize, for me base is like the Beatles discography-I will likely never run out of new things to discover-and the expansions are like listening to the Beatles members' solo work-great stuff, often challenging, and worth the listen...but I always come back to the original.
Played this at Bordercon just last week in Albury-Wodonga after being blown away by Glory to Rome the year before, my partner and I LOVED this (also Aegean Sea, which is equally chaotic but a little harder to get your head around). We also played Red 7 by the same designer, which was really neat and surprising also.
Do you fine folks attend cons in Australia? There is a cool LGBTQIA+ con in Albury-Wodonga called HuMM BuGG Con that we are travelling from Adelaide to hit up next year, They had the most amazing pride pins that we purchased because they were exceptional.
your two minutes+ overview is a better instructional video than most others have managed in 15 minutes or more or blather. well done.
That strategy tangent discussion was very amusing, haha. This little game is still on my "should I pick it up" list, the price point helps with that being in the 'yes' direction. And thanks for the publisher printing version mention, useful to know.
Haha Christopher I (Amy) am still in shock that Maggie was missing the main defence strategy hahahah we look at games so differently it still surprises me :D yes we also picked it up because it is fairly cheap. I think if you're someone who appreciates clever / different / intriguing mechanics this is definitely worth the explore... thanks for taking the time to comment ☺
what a fun review! innovation is one of my favorite games. y'all captured some of the very best aspects in a short review. well done.
Such a crazy wonderful perplexing design.... I (Amy) find myself thinking about it all of the time. It is such a small game with such a lasting impact. Glad to hear you love it too and appreciate you taking the time to comment with the kind feedback! Thank you! 😊
This is the perfect review for me. This was one of the first games I purchased when I got into the hobby and I think this game made me lose my closest potential game partner. I am now eager to pull it from the bottom of my pile of shame and try it with a new group of people, but make them watch this review ahead of time so they know what we're getting into :)
Thank you for the video! Great to hear that it plays well with 2 players. 🙂
I love games that bring new mechanisms, play styles etc to the table - sounds like one for me! Thx for the fun review.
This game is truly one of the most unique Steve! And a fairly cheap buy! Thanks for watching this one 😊
So fun to see this game pop back up. Someone brought it to some open game nites when it first came out and we played the heck out of it. Had a great time with it but have not had a chance to play it since. Thanks for the reminder, for $20 definitely going to add this to the collection.
Hard to believe it came out 10 years ago!! Still such a unique little box of unpredictable fun....! 😄
Enjoyed the review, ladies. I have never played this game but I have heard wonderful things about it. I might have to revisit purchasing it.
Hah thank you! We were a bit non-committal about our enjoyment of it but it is certainly a design we are in awe of and it leaves us both scratching our heads but also wanting to play again... few games give us this feeling! Thanks for the support as always ☺
I've been interested in this little game for awhile, thanks for the runthrough! Aaaand.. I'm still undecided lol. I am always seeing people rate this high on their geek lists on bgg, but then if you read the comments on the games page on bgg, people passionately dislike it! And now you two come along with a video saying "it's fun, its brutal, its random, its unbalanced, I dont know if I like it or why I want to keep playing it" ...Great!! Haha.. No it does sound like fun, and your video was helpful and its pushed me more towards picking it up. Thanks 😊
Hahahah sorry Ken!! Yes for better or worse we want to be honest about how we feel about games we play and this one has us hooked but it certainly won't be for everyone. The big appeal of the game is the way the mechanics are implemented... you can't help but be in awe of irrespective of whether you enjoy destroying your opponent / enjoy being destroyed 😅 thanks for watching and giving your thoughts as always!!
It is so chaotic but there is some good strategies if you know what you are doing. I love it.
Many beginners think it's too random because they don't know how to combat powerful cards. It is tactical.
Case in point, Maggie in this video lolllll.... I (Amy) agree that it is highly tactical. I also just love the experience of not knowing what's around the corner. Have you tried any of the expansions? Thanks for taking the time to comment Laurence. ☺
@@ThinkerThemer I've tried a few of them. They usually make it MORE chaotic so it's good to only play them with people that love Innovation.
They each add their own twists and are very interesting. Cities is a nice easy one to add.
I'll check that one out when we're ready to progress.... thanks for the advice 😁
Great review. If you do decide to try an expansion, my hot tip is to start with Artifacts (the purple box).
Great review!
Thank you so much! ☺
One of my absolute favorite games. Next time we see each other, we're playing!
ABSOLUTELY let's do it!!!!! You will destroy us but I can't wait 🥰
@@ThinkerThemer my copy just arrived in the mail today!!!
Great review of a favorite! Innovation is a Top Ten - even a Top Five game for me. I absolutely love multi-use cards in games, and this game hits the thematic elements of history better (for me) than the acclaimed Glory to Rome. Because in each game some cards will be Achievements (face-down), others taken as Scores (also face-down), one is never certain what cards will be active in a given game, or whether you will have a little time to build up your colors, or else be faced with an over-powering attack like The Pirate Code, or Gunpowder. That said, I played a game this morning where due to another card The Pirate Code switched tableau to a different player, and all of a sudden the score cards stolen by Pirates were seized back to a different set of Pirates. (Arrrrrrrrr!) I first picked Innovation up as a lightly used Test PNP version purchased directly from Chris Cieslik, and I have owned practically every version Asmadi Games has released since then, including the shiny Deluxe Innovation, which includes the base Innovation Game, plus all (4) expansions. As you hinted, the play only gets more crazy as you add in the expansions. I love the base game alone, I love it with expansions, I even love it when someone is absolutely abusing my score pile with a strategy that works. It's a game where things are never exactly the same- and that just makes me excited to pull it out and play it again.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts Edwin!!! So glad to hear you are such a fan. There is no denying the strange and captive hold this game has over us and it's crazy that one small card game can feel so different each and every time you play it. The Deluxe version looks gorgeous and gave me FOMO when I first saw it but for now I feel I have a lot to learn about the base game (and based on Maggie's reaction to my very basic strategy chat... so does she 🤣). Thanks again for sharing and watching! 😊
Do you recommend using the expansions? Or just sticking with the base?
@@tmills1565 I play most frequently without the expansions, but I have them and have tried them all, and find they work differently, but well.
Remembering all the different mechanisms and sorting the cards again are the main reasons I tend to play the base set; lazy, I guess.
@@edwinnealley7832 I totally understand that. I feel like the base is fine for sure. But at some point I’ll want to add some variety. Do you have suggestions on which to get or that you prefer?
@@tmills1565 I love this game- Top 5 for me- so I sprang for the deluxe box myself, and am quite pleased with it.
As far as I’m concerned this is the best bang for your buck in gaming. For $20 you get 105 cards and immense replay value.
So true!!! It is such great value even for the experience of it - that's why we wanted to talk about it because it is so interesting in how it plays. Have you needed to use expansions or tried them? Thanks for taking the time to comment ☺
@@ThinkerThemer I have the Echoes of the Past expansion and have played with it a handful of times when I'm playing someone who really knows the game. It brings us back to that beginning feeling where we're slowly discovering what each card does. That said, I'm totally happy playing without it, the base game provides tons of variation and I'm still seeing rarely used cards shine many plays later.
Thanks Bob for sharing this... it seems like there is some consensus about the base game and its immense replayability!!! We might stick with that for a while as it still feels like we've barely scratched the surface....
Love the review again, interesting I haven't heard anyone talk about it. I guess this is the cheapest game you did so far :p
Hahaha that is true... we do actually play smaller box games we just haven't quite worked out how we'd like to do the reviews for them. They are easier to do a single round playthrough for example... what would you find most useful? 🙂
@@ThinkerThemer Absolutely! I love small card games as they're quick, can be easily taught. In large groups it's hard to get everyone entertained in a complex 2 hour game.
Your thinking and theming aligns with my taste. I'll happily invest in your recommended games. :)
I have a love-hate relationship with this game. My immediate memories involved my husband always getting banking, taking my stuff, me winning with Empiricism on two separate occasions, and losing a game in fifteen minutes to a statue of a Dancing Girl xD
“Are you actually serious?”💀💀
Killing it.
And to answer the question:
#teamthemer
I wrote too quickly and missed the
#thinkersecrets
Those tricky thinkers!!
Lol!!! Some might call it a secret but I prefer to call it "the game"
Heheheh
Thanks for watching Nathan! 💕
Do you still play this? Big new edition coming out this June, would love to hear an update from you
The ultimate take-that is hurting yourself by giving away winning "secrets" in the review! Lol
Hahaha soooo true!!! I (Amy) still can't believe Maggie was not aware of the main defence strategy in the game 😂😂😂 thanks for watching Omar! Glad to hear you've been enjoying Obsession.... ☺
@@ThinkerThemer I really enjoy you both and I'm slowly watching older stuff. And thanks, I have been enjoying losing so far. I eventually hope to enjoy winning 🤣
Hehe thank you for the lovely feedback. 💕 hahaha does that mean your wife is enjoying it more now??
@@ThinkerThemer she still thinks it's a bit long, but is happily taunting me for losing both of our games so far!
Sounds like too much chaos for me. I like multi use cards but I an not a fan of chaos and take that. Thanks ladies.
It's definitely more tactics than strategy...! A game that we like to admire for its cleverness but can certainly see it's not for everyone. Thanks James ☺