Just a Saturday ramble for you guys on the complex moral greyness of the Soul Society...Let me know where you stand on Mayuri and whether or not you'd have liked to see him face some justice against the Wandenreich!
In some ways that grayness gets somewhat subverted based on the fact that the ancestors who created this mess of worlds for their own blind ambitions are legacy villains due to them enslaving a benevolent being and then setting the stage for bloodshed via the power tripping nobility and the need for control. No wonder Shunsui utterly despises them.
I like Mayuri overall. He is the mad scientist of the show and he can counter almost anyone if given the preparation time (unless the enemy is a godly being or such). He played a mayor role in tybw, and I dont really think he should have died. If I had to choose one more captain to die in that arc, I would have chosen Soifon.
Tbh I would have said yes if this was Mayuri at the end of the arrancar arch. However, given his character development and how he was one of the forefront commanders and his display of skill and ingenuity I would say all is forgiven XD
The whole "Answer for misdeeds" and "facing the consequences" does not always happen in life. Most of the time life is unfair and not all people face "Justice". And I think Kubo showed this flawlessly. Because it was through Mayuri misdeeds that leads to the soul society's salvation.
And as far as the Quincy not holding a grudge, well these are not the Quincy of old. These are Yhwach's Quincy. They are only there so serve his whims and die when necessary. The Quincy that would have held a Grudge died when Yhwach woke up. Hence why Uyru is the "Last Quincy" of the ones that would have followed the old ways and held a grudge.
The ambition that Yhwach pursued was FAR more important than lives of the entire Wandenreich. I don't see any logic of him dying for his comrades, because he was the only one in the entire manga who could bring true peace to the world and free everyone from the terror of hell.
But he especially doesn't care about low lvl Qunicy at all, which is probably who Mayuri killed. And for all intends and purposes, Qunicy are an evil that needs to be exterminated, because their existence threatens the balance of the world. (from the PoV of Soul society) In fact he would rather get a medal for killing them.
I think the Wandemreich ignoring Mayuri was a clear representation of how they never cared about common Quincies and the sufferings they faced. This was the major ideological difference between Wandemreich who pretty much followed Ywach who was in this for his own personal gains and The First Arc Uryu who was fighting for the pride of Quincies. The goals of Wandemreich were never collective good of Quincies or the revenge but the individualistic whims of Ywach followed by personal interests of remaining characters.
Well, they represented fascism, which claims to care SOOOOO much about their people, but disposes of them at a drop of the hat and never actually goes after the real threats. They just kill and power-grab endlessly until they are destroyed.
He and his atrociousnes are products of his world, where maintaining an artificial balance matters above all including morality and restraint. Unfortunately when your world came courtesy of avarice and a drive to dominate your not going to have exactly very upstanding people at the center. Even the nobles attack each other like wolves with assassins as Soifon and Yoruichi can attest. But in the end it may all come crashing down as Aizen predicted, a world built and maintained via blood can only last until it drowns taking everyone, including Mayuri. The Quincies almost did and who knows what other skeletons in the closet Soul Society has that will come to haunt them if hell doesn't first.
Yeah whatever benevolent vision the Soul King had of the world after he split up the original world, it was polluted by the Shinigami who betrayed him and put themselves at the top of the hierarchy.
@@justinpachi3707 Indeed. Ironically Tokinada told the truth in his confrontation with Shunsui and his alliance, none were in a position to really judge his want for war and dominance since that's what the ancestors did and what their descendants have been doing including with the recent Quincy genocide attempts.
@@manuelacosta9463 Exactly. Considering Ichigo's potential as he's part hollow (something which the Soul King was not), he might possibly force change in Soul Society once he dies in the world of the living and becomes a full fledged shinigami. I can imagine Ichigo studying all the Kido and other Shinigami techniques would make him more dangerous than Aizen as he'd be a seasoned warrior after all that.
@@justinpachi3707 True that. If and when that's the case he will certainly be a fixture in Gotei 13, he's already shaken up their system with his altruistic rule breaking. A full force of his own.
I think calling the soul society 'the good guys' is extremely generous. Both the hollows and the head captain and his gang were portrayed as murderous monsters that grew in power by consuming soul stuff. The hollows a bit more upfront rabid beast about it being the main difference. The only real 'good guy' is ichigo who really represents a certain naivete in regards to such.
It’s funny you said that . I mean you are right but people would praise ichigo cause they think he’s a “ gray area” type of protagonist because he fights alongside the soul society, when actually , ichigo has no idea how fucked up and corrupted the soul society is. Also the gotei 13 popularity kind of forced Kubo to paint the soul society as the “ good “ guys .
@@Vini-zv3lr also yoruichi , the supposed laid back character suggested to kisuke that she kill shuhei cause he's poking his nose into soul society politics .
@@bqw2094 Was that in the novels? That seriously seems very out of character. Kisuke and Yoruichi are definitely willing to use (and endanger) people in their schemes, but I don't think they would ever just merc someone like that
@@Vini-zv3lr yes it was in the novels , kisuke said no to yoruichi suggestion and kisuke was even disturbed by it a little. Now I dont see yoruichi as a malicious person but she is a assassin and probably felt that shuhei investigation was gonna have very big consequences that would effect everyone.
Mayuri is to Bleach what Orochimaru is to Naruto in how both are morally deplorable scientists whose transgressions were largely ignored by series end.
@@QrowxClover Orochimaru is selfish, disloyal, lacking any moral scruples and has no qualms killing allies. Orochimaru's research is purely for selfish reasons and to pursue his quest for power.
Mayuri is certainly among the worst in terms of morality, but many members of soul society are technically criminals who deserve to die. Zaraki killed many people when he was only a child and many more as he got older. Unohana was a ruthless murderer. The nobility itself is corrupt and have their own version of society wherein the non-nobility can be abused with impunity. Soul Society itself is this backwards afterlife with dozens of differing levels of poverty before you even get to having a decent afterlife, not including any other crises that may affect the regular people. However if you have a fair amount power and are willing to fall in line with the will of the Soul Society, you can reap immense benefits. During Zaraki and Unohana's fights it's even mentioned how they'd be criminals otherwise. The most unfortunate thing is that the Soul Society allowing these people to roam free, kill, and flourish is shown to be somewhat necessary because otherwise they would have lost the TYBW. It would take massive reforms and work to fix this issue, but I don't think Kyoraku can or is willing to. You would have to start small and go up to the top where a certain name obsessed monk holds sway, because he's also a monster in his own right.
It’s probably a result of them actively knowing that outside of those with high soul level will just be reborn in the human world if the perish. Why care for poor folks who are weak when their deaths and passions in Most cases just result in them coming back in the human world in which they don’t have to remember soul society standards.
I like how Mayuri and Kisuke are contrasted in the story. Throughout, Mayuri is clearly meant to be seen as evil and going too far while Kisuke has this image of a more wholesome scientist. But if you look at what their experiments, Kisuke is arguably more evil than Mayuri. Kisuke hides what he does behind the hat and fan while Mayuri simply does not care who knows. Mayuri in a way is more kind because you know what you're getting with him. With Kisuke, you always have to be on edge wondering if he's really a friend or if you're just one of his contingency plans
i think you might be missing one really important point in your comment: what Mayuri did to the Quincies has nothing to do with science. Actually, a lot of people in this comment section seem to overlooked that his way of "experimenting" with the quincies was not the kind that will bring you any valid scientific evidence. That´s like pretendeing torture will give you valid information. Other than in the fight with Uryu, it is shown again with his "zombie army". Unfortunately, i have my doubts that Kubo is the most knowledgable and considerate person concerning history, to a point were it gets questionable... Mayuri is one of my favourite characters indeed. Kisuke as well. I´d put it this way: Kisuke is a scientist with high ethics in a dark society, Mayuri is a psycho killer with no ethics and a talent for inventing cool things that was given a job were he can use both these trades.
Kisuke was not more evil than Mayuri, especially since by Soul Society standards, he is actually quite ethical in his methods, and while he has his manipulative tendencies, he is fully aware and ashamed of them and is trying to do better, or at the very least, wants his allies to rein him in if he goes too far.
One of my beefs with the last arc , that I still liked , is that the quincies did not care one bit about ...the quincies . Most of them were even killed by ... other quincies
@@jigsawalwayswins8636 Yeah because people being backstabbers and schemers in history means that it makes total sense for the Quincy to mindlessly attack each other for no reason.
It definitely rubs me the wrong way that arguably the nicest and most moral Captain (Ukitake) ended up being treated the worst in the final arc, while the most evil Captain arguably got treated the best. Mayuri being made to answer for his crimes against the Quincy is definitely something I'd personally have liked to see, but as you point out, it would probably have required the Wandenreich as a whole to have been handled somewhat differently.
Your morality may not apply to the grand scheme of things in the afterlife. The business of the Shinigami isn't to behave morally, but to ensure balance between life and death and the flow of souls between both happens as it should. The Quincy literally threaten that balance by destroying, not freeing, souls when they kill them (as explained early on in the series), so while we look at Quincy as people, they (shinigami) look at Quincy as people with powers that will destroy the balance of life. If their soul is infected by a Hollow it is destroyed because they cannot become a hollow, which is why they hunt hollows and exterminate them: because they pose a legitimate threat to their life. Which is also an issue for the balance of things. Which means that the most humane thing to do may in fact be to kill them so their souls can be reborn through soul society and remove the destruction hollows present to their souls as a threat. The morality of killing Quincy isn't as black and white in the grand scheme of things for those reasons. It's also revealed that ALL captains go to hell when they die. So regardless what they do, they always serve penance in Hell.
@@CthulhuTheory this 100%. People need to realize and remember. Soul reapers are NOT good people. We saw that in first arc and we know it was even worse a thousand years ago. It’s pretty much explained in CFYOW. THey do anything to preserve the “law” and “order” in their eyes.
Kyoraku has done a lot to diminish some of Mayuri's more evil projects. He put an end to the subordinate bombs, freed the quincy zombie squad, gave shinigami rights to the arrancar zombie squad, and threatened more sanctions to get Mayuri to fall in line
@@Ridleyslayer1102Yes, the quincy's and arrancar's that survived at the end of TYBW got a home in Hueco Mundo, while the dead fullbringers became Rukon District citizens and guardians.
I would’ve liked it if the Sternritter had more Quincy pride (ergo they’d hate Mayuri/Soul Reapers in general), but they’ve always striked me as a group of thugs (similar to the old Gotei 13) who mostly followed Yhwach because they had to/because he’s the closest thing to a god. Most of them are extremely self centered. Most of them don’t care about the well-being of one another, and some are happy to kill their own at a moment’s notice. As they are now, I don’t think many of them if any would care about what happened to their ancestors.
I think Juhabach just recruited any Tom, Dick, & Henry he could find that was available. Probably bribe them the possibility of having powers, Most of them relied on their schrifts / not much Quincy techniques.
Same, it would've added to the complexity of real life conflicts or wars, where the other side, however morally wrong or questionable, also have loved ones, friends, people they care for or care for them. That's why groups like the Genei Ryodan in HxH is so good.
This point is so important and a great take. The Sternritter were terrible to me and didn’t leave much of an impression. They were fighting because they’re a group antagonist. Like I get that they think Yhwach is a god and he gave them power but that’s their only motivation. It would be so much strong is they all had a sense of comradery with each other and when one of them died it effected morale among them. Also, it would have been a great contrast to Aizen if Yhwach actually gave a fuck about his subordinates. When I say give a fuck about, I mean he has a legitimate emotional connection between them. Imagine if Kubo really invested in making Yhwach a more compassionate person and made him on a quest for pure vengeance a vengeance that has festered for a 200 years and instead of diplomacy and forgiveness, Yhwach has vowed to raise and army or a family that share that same conviction and drive. Personally, I wouldn’t show his malicious side until much later in the arc but that mystery would have been so intriguing and it would leave us, the reader, to have to question “who is right?”. We should have to catch ourselves rooting for some of the Sternritter. Also, another thing I would have added is that the Gotei 13 was responsible for killing a loved one of Yhwach just to make the tension so that much higher. A better story is right there and Kubo did a decent job for being rushed but he kinda dropped the ball with riding that obvious and more engaging plot point.
I never thought about it but it is odd that none of them seemed bothered by a) the Quincy purge or b) Mayuri’s involvement. I know not all of the Sternritter were born Quinceys but it would have been cool if two of them were “purge survivors” or the the descendants of one of Mayuri’s victims.
He'd have been doing it for less than 100 years and the bulk of the Quincies disappeared 200 years ago. The Quincies Mayuri killed were either those left behind by the Wandenreich, or were those that left the Wandenreich like Uryu's grandfather.
Ishida was literally the descendant of Mayuri's victim. lmao Those were killed by Mayuri were Quincies that followed Uryu's grandfather's teaching while the one in TYBW were opposed that teaching. It's two different sides of Quincy.
ah finally someone else who remembers and still judges what a sick monster he was always disturbed me they tried to make him a joke latter on dude murdered people for fun hell one friend of mine pointed out he is more evil then aizen or ywatch in terms of pure morality and his staying a member of soul society really affects them being good guys
"dude murdered people for fun" That applies to Kenpachi as well. I wouldn't consider Mayuri to be worse than Aizen or Yhwach and honestly morals are just superficial rules we impose so society can function.
I mean... Not really? There's other people in the soul society that are worse than him. Everyone they've fought against have been worse than him. His biggest crime was dissecting a bunch of quincy (and lets be honest here, had the Quincy won the war 1000 years ago, they'd have done the same thing. Sure he's not the most moral character around, but I think he compares himself with the goti 13 from 1000 years ago and he tries to stay ahead of them by eliminating threats as soon as he sees them.
@@sp5ism Who... could possibly be worst than Mayuri ? Genocide,abuser,possibly molested Nemu,uses his men like dirt. The guy is almost a worst person than actual irl dictators.
@@sp5ism Nop, not even, Juha's goal was far more noble than Mayuri. Juha's goal is ending death for everyone, Mayuri s goal is satisfying his own scientific urges, nothing more.
The Manga needs massive Fixes and those that say 'Only the last 2 chapters need change, the rest can be adapted 1-to-1' are delusional. Sounds harsh, ubt i have legit no other word. We need much Fixing, duh.
@@UryuCifer Do you realize how silly af you sound, saying the manga was perfect? Dude, even tommo, the youtube who's video we're under right now, has made videos expressing what total Failures the Zero Division and the Kido Corpse both were; this and much more. You just sound silly, mate.
@@nenmaster5218 silly is you not being able to comprehend basic english, I said it was perfectly FINE, not that it was perfect. Also you are the first person to ever bring up kido corps to point out the arc being bad, like you actually had some weird expectations for them which I can tell you clearly didn't, seeing that you couldn't even remember their name so you are just using them as an excuse. As for squad zero ichibei was shown to be one of the strongest characters in the entire series and oh etsu even became a fan favorite. So them being underwhelming at most is faaaaar from being bad
That's why I like the CFYOW novels. Tokinada's a monster, but he's not wrong about Soul Society either and when you give room for someone like him to dunk on you, that's when you know you've messed up.
@@0eyes Notice that rot gets worse the higher up you get into Soul Society's leadership. Tokinada actually stated as such in his meeting with Byakuya, Yoruich and Soifon, mentioning that all of Soifon's brothers died in implied set ups for the upper houses much to her shock/anger. Makes you wonder to what extent they sacrifice and lie to their underlings and enforcers. The answer is tragically obvious.
My original thought before the arc concluded was what either the Quincy would kill him so Urahara could become the leader of Squad 12 again or Akon/Nemuri would lead on as better more 'moral' characters. Then he just became awesome, lost his daughter and we cried for him and he still helps Soul Society to this day. Honestly I dunno if we would be complaining if he died instead, and it might've given the Quincy a moral victory, but I also liked the character development there too. I'm glad we got it.
Byakuya dying would have been huge gut punch that proved that even fan favorites aren't safe. Mayuri dying would have led to Soul Society becoming a better place in the long run. Basically I'm saying that both of them should have died for different reasons.
Akon isn't technically alive. He is a mod soul. And it wouldn't make sense based on his character. He is always prepared. Even for death. He doesn't even keep his organs in his body. Also kisuke is too sus to be a captain. I still believe we don't know his true agenda. He made the hogyoku before aizen. Meaning he was doing something similar to what aizen did. He created vizors out of hollowfied shinigami. He technically created ichigo.
I personally think Mayuri works as a whole (including in the TYBW) because of what he represents for the Soul Society as a whole. Compared to other Captains, he truly embodies the "any means necessary" spirit of a military society (not just an organization - all of Soul Society is geared toward war. Sustainable living only for personnel (in the Seireitei) after all), which has been exemplified in earlier arcs. TYBW, then, in my book is showing his other side - not a "softer" side, but the reason "why" he is trusted (to an extent) beyond his scientific acumen. His consistent portrayal as loyal to the cause really comes to the fore here and of course that'd make him more of a heroic figure in the moment, because the reader will naturally root for the Shinigami here. Objectively speaking though, his is just a different fanaticism from, say, Kenpachi's reason for fighting, beyond one of them fighting smarter and the other one harder. Mayuri's willingness to go to absolute extremes is, in my opinion, the natural result of his...shall we say, appreciation for the Soul Society as a whole and the Gotei 13 in particular, even though he doesn't truly care for any individual in particular. He's the type to be unable to see individual trees in favor of the forest. And, honestly, MOST Captains appear to have a similar mindset, though to lesser degrees (other notable examples would be, in my opinion, Aizen, Soi Fon, Urahara and Yamamoto) and that cohesion and drive makes them different from the other two major factions. Where Hollows are strong individualists and the Wandenreich are basically a militarized cult centered around Yhwach with little else driving them in TYBW, the Gotei 13 truly believe in their cause to varying extremes, even the ones that are normally mellow in day to day life. And it's that belief and the resulting cohesion that makes them as dangerous as they are, both as individuals and as a collective. This is also reflected in the self-sacrificial nature of how at least some of the Shinigami fight, or their willingness to take great physical injury to prevent something worse from happening to themselves or others.
Honestly he is just too interesting a character to kill off. He was an MVP during the TYBW and really helped carry everyone to victory if we are honest. Kind of like he’s just too smart to die. The entire soul society was complicit or directly involved with his experimentation, so really everyone would have to burn at the stake.
ehmmm no, the mvps are ichigo and aizen. Mayuri could have beaten the entire wandenreich (bar ywach) by himself and it still wouldn't matter next to ichigo and aizen defeating ywach
Violet Felder but that is bacause mayuri is kubo favourite i mean thats why he get all the spot light i mean kubo focus more on him kenpachi toshiro byakuya then ichigo(who kubo couldnt think uniqur power for shikai and benkai how was also in the entire if kubo stop trolling ichigo i mean could have given him hax)aizen visord zero squard
@@UryuCifer Aizen more so than Ichigo, without Aizen he wouldn’t have made it, but like I said Mayuri was an MVP, PERIOD. the manga speaks for itself, idk what to tell you. He was CLUTCH the entire time.
@@heavenofautos118 I mean Kubo created a very interesting character , when he thought up Mayuri. Mayuri is also a FAN favorite. with these things combined, it’s completely justified for Mayuri to be a fav for Kubo. Kubo doesn’t just hand Mayuri Ws though. And I like that.
@@UryuCifer thats a crazy argument as without mayuri the entire world would not exist.... at the very start of the arc he saved the world..Btw had he just did nothing on the battlefield. Ichigo would not have made it . Ichigo was literally stopped by people like askin.. Many very powerful reiastu's like the soul kings hand would have returned to ywach on top of his powers.. ichigo and azien stood no chance against ywach, its was uryu's dad magic arrow was the MVP
If you want to look at true moral ambiguity in Bleach, look at someone like Hiyori Sarugaki. She held the rank of Lieutenant, meaning that she once had a considerable level of importance, power and prestige within the Soul Society. And what did she do with that? She ran around violently attacking anyone who even slightly crossed her. There wasn't a safe face, stomach or ballsack within a half mile radius of this girl. If they let someone like her rise through the ranks, is it a surprise that Mayuri has?
@@UryuCifer Why don't you tell me why I would be joking about allowing an incredibly violent pos to have a position of power and we'll start from there.
@@clearspira bruh... thats like saying sakura shouldn't be a ninja cuz she punches naruto, or noelle in black clover shouldn't be a wizard cuz she hits asta, or the hundreds of characters in anime that do the exact same comedic relief thing... It's ok if you don't like it or you get annoyed by it, but it ain't serious nor a big deal.
@@clearspira in terms of lore, yeah. It's weird she can do that shit and come out unscathed. But you gotta be reminded in a meta context, she's part of a tsundere bully troupe, which is completely normal in Japan. Trying to call out an Anime from the 2000's on some woke double standard wont really go anywhere.
I'll never got over the fact that Uryu just seems to ignore the fact that mayuri, brutally mutilated his grandpa. He even starts to joke with Mayrui in the hueco mundo arc. One of my issues with bleach, is with how comedy is placed. This instance, shouldn't have been a comedic moment, but rather a depressing one. Uryu having to recieve help from a man who is truly the most evil soul in existence, should have been conducted with a more serious tone. Idk just a personal pet peeve of mine. Edit: Yeah mayuri killed Uryu's grandpa with negligence, and Uryu just moves past this.
Uryu just moved past this? Wtf are you talking about? Uryu already made his peace when he sacrificed his power, the power that was given to him by his own grandfather, to clapped Mayuri.
@@zeroskaterz92 Then proceeds to joke with mayuri in the hueco mundo arc like he's an awkward uncle and not the man who's tortured and killed hundreds of quincy. Mayrui didn't do enough to justify Uryu moving past all the horrible things mayuri did, that's my issue. He even seems to move past the fact that Mayuri is a daughter beater. What you expect to believe that Uryu made his peace with that as well, when he lost his power?
@@samramen8454 Uryu said he shot Mayuri with the intent to kill, Nemu remarked that she was relieved when he spared him and that's why she gives him the antidote. He already made his peace and not blinded by revenge, a lesson that he learned because he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake that those Quincies who were purged 200 years ago did, blinded by revenge. Wtf are you on about? You mean hundreds of Quincies that were warned to not disrupt the balance and yet they still bent on revenge towards Hollows, disturbed the balance that can potentially destroy the world? Uryu even agreed in the first arc that those Quincies deserved it and he sided with Shinigami's decision. Also the fact that Mayuri saved Uryu from Szayel as well. Both him and Renji couldn't even beat that Espada. Again, wtf are you on about? Nemu is Mayuri's creation, it's not even his actual daughter to begin with. You don't even know the context and yet you're bitching about it. You clearly don't know wtf you're talking about.
@@zeroskaterz92 Revenge and not forgiving are two different things. I'm not expecting Uryu to go out and murder Mayuri. I'm just asking for some conflict and not having the entire issue of Mayuri's past actions being completely brushed aside from Uryu's side. Yes brutally torturing Quincy should raise a little hesitation from Uryu in his relationship with Mayuri. Mayuri could have easily just killed the Quincy painlessly. But he didn't, he actively chose to dissect them in the most painful way possible. And what was worse Mayuri admitted to doing this for amusement. The Quincy were a near extinct tribe at this point in the story, from his perspective there was no reason to do this other than being psychotic. Uryu letting bygons be bygons I can accept. But being on good terms to the point of joking with guy who is essentially bleach's Satan. Is a bit too far for me. You brought up interesting points, but what you said, is arguing against something that I never intended in my first comment. Which is Uryu getting revenge, I never wanted that. But rather, Uryu just having agency to the point of being able to not brush aside horrible inhumane acts done to the Quincy. And with Nemu, I have to respectfully disagree. Uryu was disgusted by Mayuri's treatment with Nemu, to the point of wasting his power in killing Mayuri. How he can just forgive this in the next arc is such an enormous leap. Again I don't want Uryu to kill Mayuri or even getting revenge. But to not just forget and effortlessly forgive Mayuri for his past actions. When Mayuri hasn't done nearly enough in repentance. You could argue that forgiving Mayuri was a mature step on Uryu's part. And yeh it was, but I feel like Mayuri needed to do a bit more. But that's just me. I won't add more to this discussion as you probably want to get on with your day. It was good to talk more with you, have a good day :) 👍
I definitely find it weird that the Wandenreich doesn't really care about the purge 200 years ago. At the very least a decent amount of them should've cared. And I feel like Mayuri should've died against Pernida.
This is just a guess on my part, but I'm pretty sure the majority of Yhwach's Sternritter weren't actually Quincy before being given their powers. The fact that there is a robot and a luchador amongst them seems to prove this, as well as the fact that they seem to rely mainly on the power of their Schrifts, rather than any of the Quincy techniques we had seen before. I imagine that, after his revival, Yhwach simply searched for anyone with strong spiritual energy and a personality that would be susceptible to his charisma and promises of powers, similar to what happened in As Nodt's flashback, where we see him (As) on life support, and learn from his thoughts that he is completely afraid of what will happen to him after he dies.
Same. I feel like Pernida was nerfed hard against Mahito considering it’s the literal arm of the Soul King. The Soul King is the closer thing to a god like being in Bleach.
They don't care because they're on the military side of Quincy that against the Ishida's grandfather's teaching, the one that got purged 200 years ago. Quincies had a huge rift among each other in terms of their own politics.
@@MrGksarathy so, uhm, where are all the tortured quincies at? Porro is in hell, so the many, many people killed by Mayuri should still be around, right?
You'd think when the first invasion hit. Most of the Stern Ritter would've made an immediate B line for Mayuri. His particularly heinous crimes against the Quincies had to be in their daten.
Exactly. The reason why their attack on Soul Society is so brutal is partly because its revenge for the genocide the Shinigami perpetrated against the Quincy.
But that's just the point. Yawach didn't actually care about the quincy and he was the one calling the shots. You've also got to remember they had that "blood purity" thing going on so I do question if they ever actually cared about what he did. He should still be punished though.
@@justinpachi3707 i feel like it was mostly business.They killed the shinigami because they are their enemies, and sure the shinigami don't have a right to complain about it, but there's no sternriter that seem to have a particular hatred for the shinigamis, while they do have a supremacist streak going on against the hollows. They are brutal in both case, but you don't have any quincy goes about how they will make shinigami pay for killing their comrade. The fact soul society gets their comeuppance is almost accidental
I really do wish Uryu had a chance to show off the Antithesis in offing Mayuri. If Kubo wasn't gonna have the balls to kill Byakuya, he definitely would have been right in killing off Mayuri
I think if Kubo was really going with the "Soul Society is changing" thing they set up in the Fullbring arc, he would've axed Mayuri cause he's probably the most evil character in the show. Some of his crimes are for the greater good, but a lot of them aren't and I can't believe he needed to torture that many Quincies just to study their bodies. What could he get from 2,000 bodies he couldn't get from 1,000? I imagine the Sternritter hunting for his head, and he gets tons of badass moments but they keep coming one after another throughout the arc, wearing him down until he and Pernida finally kill each other.
After all this "ss" didn't realy change they accept ichigo because he saved them twice but that's the extenct of it but even this doesn't matter much giving what they were willing to do to him
I agree! Yamamoto and the others worked so hard to reform Soul Society from what it once was to what it is now, while not anything close to perfect, it is much better than it was. To keep such a chaotic evil person employed at the top is pure lunacy. He always has the ability to choose humane ways of gathering intel but consistently chooses the most violent and harmful ways instead. And so few people throughout the show are bothered or seem to care! Why do they not care about the man who murders others for fun?!
@merkikima I've always been hung up on this line after Ichigo gets his powers back where Hitsugaya says it only happened because Ichigo changed Yamamoto and Soul Society in his battles. I feel like the only person on the planet who remembers that line but I think it matters. Sure, they would've made him Soul King if they had no other choice but that doesn't mean they didn't change. I think people also forget the nobles barely existed for the first fifteen years of Bleach except the ones on Ichigo's side, then just when things are about to get better Kubo's like "oh, the Central 46 doesn't matter even though they've always been really important until now, nobles who've never been in the Gotei or involved in TYBW can beat captains in a fight and even if they lose Ichibei exists so nobody can ever win lol". Obviously Soul Society wasn't gonna be perfect at the end of Bleach but it looked like it was on the way up, and I feel kinda cheated. @Bethany Huis They could just draft Urahara now that Aizen's gone, Mayuri's not the only game in town anymore and no one else uses most of his science anyway.
I imagined and hoped while reading the chapters weekly that Pernida would kill Mayuri. Pernida steals Mayuri’s bankai and has it eat him alive as Mayuri laughs maniacally as he’s devoured by the zanpakuto that he experimented on for centuries. Or of course Uryu kills him.
Something I just thought of regarding Mayuri's imprisonment in the maggots nest. If I remember correctly they took him out of their wen Urahara became captain long after the blood war happened. He was likely imprisoned for his role in the blood war given that it was believed that the Quincys were wiped out afterwards.
Personally, I find his argument about the potential Quincy invasion to have some holes in it; I mean, at that point, I think it’ve become known that Uryu came along to rescue Rukia, and had been sent there by Urahara. In order for Mayuri’s argument to work, an invading Quincy would have had to have been of unknown origin, with an unknown agenda, and either have killed themselves (and destroyed their body in the process), or flat out vanished without a trace. The case with Uryu was too ‘open and shut’ to warrant the concern of a future attack
He knew about the future attack as regular quincies do not hve Volstanding/ letz still but Uryu did have it during their fight. It was a new technology that quincies developed in the shadows. Ryukken and Souken stole that glove that gave temporary Volstanding. The quincies on Earth do not hve letz still like Uryu as Mayuri hve experimented with every surviving quincy and none of them had this technology. Its not because Uryu was a genius. It was because this technology came from the shadows. This new technology made Mayuri suspect that something is being hidden and the quincies may have survived and were developing new technologies.
@@divakaranchandrahasan7249 Okay, I went to look back at that particular fight...and, indeed, Mayuri was shocked by the Letz Still, having never seen it before. Alright, that is my bad...though I WILL criticize Kubo for not explicitly reminding the readers of that fact, when Mayuri confronted Yamamoto about ignoring his warning. The fight was brought up, but that little tidbit wasn't (at least, not that I remember) Or who knows, maybe it was just too easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment; Uryu looked like he was about to his avenge his grandfather, and Mayuri's dialogue could've easily been dismissed as generic 'this cannot be!' dialogue you typically hear from villains who are about to get their comeuppance. Either way, thanks for catching that
It would probably have been interesting to have some consequences to Mayuri's horrible actions because he is the one whose horrible deeds are shown the most and because of his history with the quincies. But the Gotei and the Wandemreich are both organisation with goals and very little regards to morality (the goal justify the means). We know that the first Gotei was a gang of murderous people, Unohana and Yamamoto where monsters. Zaraki much like Unohana killed for his own "fun". They emprison "potentially dangerous people" and free some when they are deemed to be valuable assets (ie : Mayuri and Aizen). As for the Wademreich it seems they only worship Ywabach and do not seem to care about the life of quincies being taken by him. So it does not surprise me that they did not care about those who suffered at Mayuri's hand and that they have not encountered ever. What bothered me most is how quickly Uryu is accepting teaming with Mayuri in Hueco Mundo and how little he seems to care about it.
Yeah the Mayuri stuff in Hueco Mundo feels like a direct attempt to sweep his previous villainy under the rug. Most of his scenes with Uryu are played for laughs.
I know I am 1 year late, but your idea of a final confrontation between Uryu and Mayuri AND having Mayuri die from the hands of Uryu would have been genious... for 3 reasons : 1- Establishing a conclusion to this unfinished business 2- Establishing the updated power scale of Uryu (which we didn't get in an Arc about Quincies) - and do not talk to me about Haschwalth since Uryu lost anyway. 3- Give Uryu a clear Win in TYBW, and enabling my second point
This is absolutely one of my biggest frustrations with the TYBW and Bleach as a whole. Narratively, the Mayuri and Uryu fight would have been one of the best fights in the arch. It really does feel like a missed opportunity for his death or at the very least another hamulating defeat.
When I read your topic title I immediately thought YES! But after listening to your video, I change my mind to no. The Quincys in the Blood War Arc never showed any connection with the Quincys that got slaughtered. It very much seemed like BWA Quincys didn't know what happen to the Quncys later, didn't cared or both. In fact Yhwach caused the death of two people in the recent Quincy families. It would seemed weird and undeserved if they did get revenge when they had nearly no connection with the people whom got slaughtered.
Well, he did FAR more than what was needed, and thoroghly enjoyed every minute. Reviving arrancars to use in the war: Okey, needed, keeping them conscious so they know they are slaves, not needed. Killing 28,000 souls, needed and aproved, he is horrible but this one gets a pass, except, he conveniently chose to kill poor people and not the nobles so... well, kinda gets a pass. Experimenting on quincies: not needed, the was was over, most of those quincies wanted no more war, and what he did to grand pa Ishida, was completely unneeded, and buy was he ever so happy of his actions. And in the end, he just gets to be happy and free.
0:56- it’s characters like Mayuri and to a lesser extent, Zaraki that makes Bleach stand out compared to Naruto and One Piece in its pre-time skip period where characters were relatively squeaky clean good guys for the most part. That moral ambiguity becomes more and more prominent as the series goes on.
I don't think he necessarily *deserved* to die, but he absolutely did not deserve to have such a massive spotlight shone on him in yet another arc. So many characters are thrown by the wayside to give him yet another chance to shine as a character, and that's one of Kubo's biggest failings as a writer IMO - the fact that he doesn't give his characters the treatment they deserve.
I agree 50/50. I think he does deserve his spotlight because he is a very intriguing character that surprisingly a lot of people actually have interest in. The fact that he doesn’t rely on flashy moves, power ups, rage moments, or anything else typical characters use to gain the upper hand in a fight is a breathe of fresh air. Scientists aren’t typically 1v1 combat gladiators, but seeing him duke it out with the best and win is great. The man is genuinely a piece of shit, which I love lol. But I do wish characters like Chad got more love. Chads power was also interesting and could’ve been expanded on. So yes, Kubo is very biased with his characters.
Characters aren't supposed to get special treatment just because they "deserve it", that's bad writing. The simple fact is Mayuri was more clever and prepared than most of the others so he ended up taking part in more of the important battles. Battles that can't be easily skipped over, and because the arc was rushed that meant that sadly other characters got shafted.
@@ReeVoque All that matters is telling the story in as complete a manner as possible the best way possible. Chojiro deserved to have his 1 battle in the series shown. The 0 Division deserved to have their last stand shown. Omeada deserved to have his entire damn arc shown so we can appreciate his character more 😤 Unfortunately situations like those either A) serve no real purpose other than to show what happens and only the end result actually matters B) are largely unimportant to the story so the screentime is better spent elsewhere or C) they impact the story in a way the author doesn't want. Interupting the flow, revealing something too soon, negatively influencing the tone or whatever. There are probably even more reasons I can't think of at the moment.
your argument is so pathetic so the most smartest cunning and prepared captain wasnt supposed to be prepared at a casulaty like this? and characters didnt were thrown by the wayside at all, no its not a failing of kubo is the failing of his dumb fans like you that need to be spoon fed to actually understand his story
One of my favorite captains, he's funny as hell when he fights his opponent but I thought he would meet his end when he fought Pernida! I like how they showed his softer, more human side toward the end of that fight!!
100% the reason why I like him so much is that his fights are just so entertaining, as a scientist char the way he ends fights is never just "I have better firepower than you" it's always something so different, like the drug that slows down perception he injected Syzelaporo with or his million layer mod on his Bankai against Pernnida
Is he “deserve” to die? Yeah sure. Is there anybody who can kill him? Maybe, but not many would risk going off against him. Mayuri is the case where his strength and value make him extremely hard to kill.
Yamamoto was the leader even before the quincy invasion. He paid the price for Mayuri's misdeeds and rightfully so. Most of soul societies past misdeeds and shady ways of being run, were directly reflected by his leadership. It showed during the fight with Aizen when he was willing to kill everyone to stop him, which to me is just as bad as Mayuri blowing up a few of his men.
It would be cool if one of the Sternritter had a "memory" illusion power to use against Mayuri, making him revive the atrocities he done in the past but in the position of his victims, making him be demolished by the enemy while he has to live the same suffering he caused.
Just looking at the conversation between Mayuri and Pernida really exemplifies this. Seeing Mayuri call Pernida just a piece of the Soul King and Pernida reject that identity to call himself a Quincy, I would’ve thought Pernida was the hero if I didn’t have the context.
I believe Nemu could shine a light on his exploding squad member incident. Bleach Wiki - Nemu is the artificially created "daughter" of Mayuri Kurotsuchi. He used a combination of Gigai and Gikon technologies to bring her into existence. Akon and Nemu discuss the Nemuri Project. Nemu was created as the seventh incarnation of the Nemuri Project, which aimed to create new souls from "Konpaku cells". Perhaps he created an entire squad in the same way. He wouldn't give a toss about them dying if he could simply push a button and produce a hundred more in one afternoon. Neither would the head captain; they aren't real people after all, merely replaceable weapons of war. Perhaps their memories are also artificial to make them believe they had actual training etc. In fact it'd probably be beneficial to destroy them all at once so the ones that remain don't remember their allies unexpectedly exploding. If you're going to plant a bomb inside someone it's probably best they didn't know about it! As I say; Push a button and like magic you have an entirely new squad of disposable exploding foot soldiers.
I understand the disappointment in Kubo not building off of Mayuri's crimes against the Quincy, but I think it makes sense given who Ywach is. The Quincy leader would never care about a grudge when he's poised to rule the world and the Sternritter fall in line or else.
Mayuri is one my second favorite captain, but I agree that it was a big missed opportunity for kubo to not write a major story beat revolving around him and his history with the Quincies.
He’s my absolute variant caretaker and I believe a necessary evil. He is the truest reflection is the soul society as a whole and there is a beauty in that.
the thing you have to remember about Mayruri, Uryu, and the Quincy is that it was only personal for Uryu. to other Quincy, Mayrui just killed a bunch of Quincy, but to Uryu he killed someone immeasurably important to him. not just his mentor but his grandfather.
I always thought it would of been Cool if Uryu killed him to prove loyalties to the quincy and cementing him as an enemy to the SS even if his friends don't fully buy it leaving the Arc to now focus a bit more on Nemu is the spots of Mayuri and her getting some similar development as characters like nanao and taking over as captain
I find the proposal of Uryu killing Mayuri to be interesting because it would actually give the sternritter and schutzstaffel memebers a reason to atleast partially to trust Uryu cause thoughtout the entire arc it felt like everyone in the vandenreich knows that he's suspicious and possibly a traitor but for whatever reason don't act upon those feelings just letting him be. I just find it a little goofy that there's a big reveal that Uryu's a part of the bad guys team and Yhwach's heir but the entire organization he infiltrates don't even believe he's on their side.
Yes , absolutely. The quinces not mentioning anything about mayuri huge Quincy genocide was such a oversight to me . It feels as if Kubo wants us to just forget about what a asshole mayuri was , he should have died not Nemu
It's an oversight not a plot hole. People use the word plot hole for anything,and by that logic all soul reapers should die they took part in killing the quincy not just mayuri.
yama.YOU QUINCY KILLED MY BEST FRIEND YOUR PURE EVIL AND I MUST HAVE REVENGE all the quincy....your mad scientist dude over there dissected 100's of us alive
Non of the Quincies Mayuri killed would have been part of the Wandenreich. They would have been those left behind by it or those who abandoned it. Besides, non of the Sternritter are shown to be particularly sentimental towards others within their own ranks, let alone Quincies they had no interaction with. Hell, they kill eachother without batting an eye. The only one who would have been out for Mayuri would be Uryu.
I agree with you, i also was expecting something else for mayori in the last arc, at least something done by Uryo since he knew what mayori did in the past to the Quincy people. Beautiful video to start the morning with 😍
It's morally gray that Yama keeps using him instead of vaporizing him but the guy himself is 99% evil. Always glad to see an Akainu fan though, can't wait for his backstory.
@@scottgrasser9737 Dude, a former nazi rocket scientist was hired for the space programs. He may be psychotic, but he still is useful and is allowed to be free and work in the Gotei 13 in spite of it. Hell, lots of people in the US federal govt (Like Obama or Bush) did way worse than Mayuri and are still free men who receive thunderous applause when making speeches. It's a real phenomenon.
Ngl the Soul Society is simply awful as an afterlife. The Shinigami basically killed the god of Bleach (the Soul King) and left him as a living corpse used a glorified battery. The Shinigami themselves also have a pretty warped sense of morality which isn't surprising that many of them are either psychopaths/sociopaths. The original Gotei 13 were basically ruthless killers. The Soul within the Rukongai are forced to live in worse conditions than in modern earth and are largely ignored by the Shinigami. It's honestly no surprise that this sort of environment created the circumstances for people like Aizen, Tokinada, or Mayuri to arise.
ya the regular Souls in the Rukongai are in poverty & the Gotei is like its own palace/military facility & walled up whilst those regular Souls/citizens almost totally ignored by Shinigamis.
I love this channel. Such great content. Always reminds me of the amazing Bleach stories and you always nail expanding the ideas behind the lore. So well done. Thank you so much ❤
If Mayuri died Nemuri 2.0 could not be made... If he died he would take his work with him. He had great character development in the last arc. Even his outrageous outfits have their own development.
I don't think Mayuri should have died. But after his battle of Pernida, he should have paid for his crimes through an uncurable disease/curse caused by the giant hand, an ironic fate to him, to keep him experimenting on his own life to get rid of it.
I have said this plenty of times in discussion about this. I thought with all this "Sins of the past" theme going on Mayuri would be one of the main targets. I was waiting for someone to stray from the Wandereich's goal and seek vengeance for someone who was a victim of experiments. Of course nothing happen and its one the number of missed narrative points of the last arc. Maybe with the next arc focusing on hell Mayuri will be at its gates and punish for his crimes.
I haven't watched/read Bleach in such a long time, do we get a detailed backstory for Mayuri? He obviously became chaotic evil after entering the Soul Society because characters that did absolutely nothing compared to him are seen going to hell. How did he go to "heaven"?!
@@0816M3RC That's what I thought. I consider it a plot hole. If you have someone on the side of the good guys and he acts against their goals, there's no reason why you wouldn't explain how they got to be that way.
He's the Author's Favorite, but yeah, Uryu or Ryuken SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO KILL HIM. It would have kept up the facade that Uryu had switched sides too. But instead, poor NEMU has to die for this sleaze. Yuck.
Ryuken basically disavowed the Quincy and Uryu understood why they had to be killed. The only reason Uryu would have to kill Mayuri is his grandpa, but the battle in Soul Society likely proved a point of catharsis for destroying Mayuri's pride and body. Beyond that, Uryu isn't ever really proven to be driven by revenge, so it doesn't make sense for him to go out of his way to kill Mayuri either. Like it or not, Kubo writes his characters consistently.
@@CthulhuTheory Disagree with the last part of your fake-intellectual post. Mayuri coming back to be a silly mad scientist we're supposed to laugh at is forced and gay.
Imma be honest before even watching the video: I think if Mayuri didn't happen to also be Kubo's favourite character, he would have died. I can't imagine people like Ishida can be fine with him being left alive after what he did to his grandfather, I'm sorry but I just can't. Same with Ichigo, I doubt he's aware of all of this but for fucks sake. I swear Mayuri did more harm to people than others that we consider "villains" in the story. Yes, Tsukishima and Ginjo are "evil" (not really with Ginjo but ok) but their actions *pale* in comparison to what Mayuri did. *BOMBING* his own subordinates!? Like what? How does that even go unnoticed? He sure sounds a lot more evil than Tsukishima lol
i assure you even if he werent kubos favorite he would still be alive and well, also ishida was finwe with him during the arrancar arc so what do you mean? yeah and mayuri saved the worlds so again whats your point?
@@emilioalveran4832 @emilio alveran I mean he shouldn't have been ok with that, obviously? The Hueco Mundo arc had some weird moments -that I remember even Tommo bringing up in the past- were Ishida of all people had comedic moments with the person that was the main reason for his grandfather's death and dissected his corpse? Yet we are supposed to believe people like Barragan are the bad guys in comparison? Mayuri did far worse than Barragan ever did on screen or was implied to do. The point the OP is trying to make is that Mayuri gets a pass on all that because he's Kubo's favorite character, and he's right! Ishida having a comedic moment with the -in essence- murderer of his grandpa that had also drove the Quincys to just a handful after killing, dissecting and experimenting with more than 2000 Quincys makes NO SENSE.
Mayuri was mvp in the tybw arc, he won his fights,he kept the other captains alive, he did so many things to counter act the quincy, he was a general badass!
1.After his through defeat in hands of uryu, mayuri probably had a re think of everything he was doing, it is character development. 2. We only knew Quincy through a very decent person like uryu, 1000 year blood war given us the true picture of how evil or apathetic most quincys where, which exonerate Mayuri a lot. Fun fact I observed in old days- It was fashionable to hate on Mayuri to show how great a human you are with out doing any thing positive for the society, so if any one start talking how much they hate mayuri, you can mark them as a hypocritical fraud and avoid.
Nemu didnt deserve to die if you ask me !! But although Mayuri is the MVP of TYBW ive always had my gripes with the character and how he was handled, like his fans trying to justify his abuse towards Nemu and acting like since he's one of the author avatar for Kubo (with Kisuke and Aizen) that doesnt mean we're forced to love him
@@emilioalveran4832 oh ive seen some Mayuri fanboys that tries to justify his treatment of her but not all of them are like this fortunately to me the attempts to portray Nemu and Mayuri's relationship as wholesome fall worse than flat for me
Mayuri started as maybe the worst captain but finished the story as one of the best and absolutely MVP of TYBW arc. He has a great fight and deserved to survive. He isvmayuri afterall
Jimmy Neutron nonsense.. OHH WHOOPPEDY DO I MADE A NEW DOO DAD THAT MAKES ME WIN THIS FIGHT. I liked Ken fight with that imaginary guy interesting and badass concept. Ishidas fight with Mayuri early in Bleach was spottttt one of the best fights. The invention came with a significant cost and historical not just popped out fo no where.
@@Turnpost2552 I'm sorry but at a certain point most of fights and powers weren't making any sense. The only thing was that every time mayuri was on screen since the arrancar arc it was a Savage and badass moment
Can we all at least agree that killing Nemu was a really dick move though? The poor girl got destroyed every time she appeared and when we thought she would finally do something cool Kubo simply killed her like she was nothing.
My Theory: I think VERY early on, Uryu was intended to Marry Nemu. Back then she was just going to be an abused Vice Captain/Daughter. But as the series went on, Kubo changed it. He made Nemu an unstable experiment incapable of feelings (even though she could recognize how evil Mayuri was) and he started liking Mayuri so he tried to force this "silly villain" bullshit with him in the Hueco Mundo Arc. When the Final Arc happens, Kubo didn't have it in him to kill Mayuri, so he killed Nemu instead. Nasty lol. But that's my theory.
I always wondered how odd mayuri's zanpakuto was. Zanpakuto are supposed to be reflections of their users' personalities, such as ruri'iro kujaku being just as vain as yumichika. However, we don't really see Ashisogijizo reflecting mayuri's personality. All we know is that mayuri is a scientist and treats his sword like a science experiment. I almost feel like if Kubo said he literally tortured Ashisogijizo until it gave him his bankai out of fear, I'd believe him
Mayuri hates perfection. his zanpakuto is a baby/Caterpillar something that grows and evolves. people forget mayuri does everything he does for science he sees EVERYTHING as a research subject his zanpakuto and even himself and he doesn't only inflict pain on his enemy alot of the drugs that he injects himself with causes him intense pain
I think Mayuri and Kisuke are the “chaotic good” characters in the Bleach series; their motives for the most part are noble (in the sense that what they do is either for Soul Society or for scientific advancement), but their methodologies are *highly* questionable
If the anime can do more to extend the events of the war, I would love to see more skirmishes on the first day of the second invasion. Not full on fights, more touch and go interactions as foot soldier Shinigami and Quincies fight to maintain territory and Stern Ritters and Officers bump into each other. And from there, I would really like, even if half an episode of Mayuri running around with Nemu on his research to assemble the Corpse Unit and being jumped on by more emotional Quincies like Bazz B or Robert, who are like "So *you're* the famous Mayuri Kurotsuchi!", attack him but he escapes in typical Mayuri fashion. Have his stamina slowly deplete as he runs around all night avoiding attacks and when his fight with Pernida ends, he collapses from an exhaustion he had been keeping under control with performance enhancing drugs. Maybe I'm asking for too much, but it'd be something to further the war aspect of the arc and give Mayuri some much deserved headaches.
I've read a fanfic in which the Quincy in the world of the living and that were killed 200 years before the series were exiles from Juha Bach's Empire. This would explain why the Wandenreich don't care about their fate.
Personally I just can’t get over the uneasy feelings I get whenever his character is shown. Knowing the type of man he is and how the creator almost encourages his behaviour since he never gets truly punished or changes the way he treats people. Maybe because it reminds me too much of how real doctors and scientists have gotten away with doing the same to real people. It’s almost like saying that whatever was done to the victims was worth it for the knowledge or experience gained from their bodies or reactions. It could also be that the author comes from a country like Japan that continues to deny or justify that they’ve done similar actions. For example by choosing not to teach their citizens of their country’s shameful actions and discrediting the victims of the acts. All of this combines into that uneasy disgusting feeling I get whenever Mayuri is “present”.
I agree mayuri makes me feel unconftobale i've read about thoses humain experiments and even seen real pictures and it's realy disturbing how mayuri is depicted as this captain worthy of respect and that his crimes don't matter anymore
@@emilioalveran4832 why are you mad? Theire are things that are disturbing even in fiction i realy don't get your reaction are you a mad mayuri fan? Learn to respect others opinions people are different after all insted of acting all high and maighty
Mayuri paper in TYBW made me love this character. Every single panel he had in the TYBW i was excited. I do agree with you, Mayuri should've had some kinda of punishment. Death sounds kinda to much cause i can't imagine Bleach without Mayuri
I've long since accepted that mayrui is the original rick trope. And if you wanted to make the wacky comparison, he's basically the rick of bleach. With nemu as his morty.
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but the Soul Society being very grey morally and accepting atrocities is because they are not so much a force for good v evil and more Order v Chaos and looking at it from that angle the utilitarian cruelty often shown by many of them makes perfect sense.
I think Kubo went for some kind of irony of how the gotei even if they are sometimes so inmoral for some things they always try to protect something and Quincy being so proud of themselves they never really care about anyone else like when they almost kill each other when ichigo arrived in TYBW
Your thing about mayuri’s past crimes, the quinces of the vandenreich would probably not even be aware of the ones mayuri expirmenred on. Of course they wouldn’t bring it up or even care
This video gives actually a great basis for the hell arc. The hell arc can really balance the karma and redefine what was good and evil within this universe or make it more abyssmal in the sense that there is really no right and wrong.
Considering the change in attitude, I think Uryuu's arrow had more of an effect that we realize. Perhaps rather he died and was reborn, rather than just escaped.
Just a Saturday ramble for you guys on the complex moral greyness of the Soul Society...Let me know where you stand on Mayuri and whether or not you'd have liked to see him face some justice against the Wandenreich!
In some ways that grayness gets somewhat subverted based on the fact that the ancestors who created this mess of worlds for their own blind ambitions are legacy villains due to them enslaving a benevolent being and then setting the stage for bloodshed via the power tripping nobility and the need for control. No wonder Shunsui utterly despises them.
I like Mayuri overall. He is the mad scientist of the show and he can counter almost anyone if given the preparation time (unless the enemy is a godly being or such). He played a mayor role in tybw, and I dont really think he should have died. If I had to choose one more captain to die in that arc, I would have chosen Soifon.
Tbh I would have said yes if this was Mayuri at the end of the arrancar arch. However, given his character development and how he was one of the forefront commanders and his display of skill and ingenuity I would say all is forgiven XD
The whole "Answer for misdeeds" and "facing the consequences" does not always happen in life. Most of the time life is unfair and not all people face "Justice".
And I think Kubo showed this flawlessly. Because it was through Mayuri misdeeds that leads to the soul society's salvation.
And as far as the Quincy not holding a grudge, well these are not the Quincy of old. These are Yhwach's Quincy. They are only there so serve his whims and die when necessary.
The Quincy that would have held a Grudge died when Yhwach woke up.
Hence why Uyru is the "Last Quincy" of the ones that would have followed the old ways and held a grudge.
If yhwach actually cared about any of his fellow Quincy then I think he would have gone after Mayuri.
The ambition that Yhwach pursued was FAR more important than lives of the entire Wandenreich. I don't see any logic of him dying for his comrades, because he was the only one in the entire manga who could bring true peace to the world and free everyone from the terror of hell.
The arc was proof that he didn't care about his subordinates and saw them as expendable
I think yhwach killed more quincy than mayuri lol
But he especially doesn't care about low lvl Qunicy at all, which is probably who Mayuri killed.
And for all intends and purposes, Qunicy are an evil that needs to be exterminated, because their existence threatens the balance of the world. (from the PoV of Soul society) In fact he would rather get a medal for killing them.
Dude nobody killed more quincy than ywach himself so that just tells you what they mean to him.
I think the Wandemreich ignoring Mayuri was a clear representation of how they never cared about common Quincies and the sufferings they faced. This was the major ideological difference between Wandemreich who pretty much followed Ywach who was in this for his own personal gains and The First Arc Uryu who was fighting for the pride of Quincies. The goals of Wandemreich were never collective good of Quincies or the revenge but the individualistic whims of Ywach followed by personal interests of remaining characters.
appreciated this take
I would agree if they dismissed him, but that just wasn't written at all. You have to interact with someone to ignore them.
Well, they represented fascism, which claims to care SOOOOO much about their people, but disposes of them at a drop of the hat and never actually goes after the real threats. They just kill and power-grab endlessly until they are destroyed.
He and his atrociousnes are products of his world, where maintaining an artificial balance matters above all including morality and restraint. Unfortunately when your world came courtesy of avarice and a drive to dominate your not going to have exactly very upstanding people at the center. Even the nobles attack each other like wolves with assassins as Soifon and Yoruichi can attest. But in the end it may all come crashing down as Aizen predicted, a world built and maintained via blood can only last until it drowns taking everyone, including Mayuri. The Quincies almost did and who knows what other skeletons in the closet Soul Society has that will come to haunt them if hell doesn't first.
Yeah whatever benevolent vision the Soul King had of the world after he split up the original world, it was polluted by the Shinigami who betrayed him and put themselves at the top of the hierarchy.
@@justinpachi3707 Indeed. Ironically Tokinada told the truth in his confrontation with Shunsui and his alliance, none were in a position to really judge his want for war and dominance since that's what the ancestors did and what their descendants have been doing including with the recent Quincy genocide attempts.
@@manuelacosta9463
Exactly. Considering Ichigo's potential as he's part hollow (something which the Soul King was not), he might possibly force change in Soul Society once he dies in the world of the living and becomes a full fledged shinigami.
I can imagine Ichigo studying all the Kido and other Shinigami techniques would make him more dangerous than Aizen as he'd be a seasoned warrior after all that.
@@justinpachi3707 True that. If and when that's the case he will certainly be a fixture in Gotei 13, he's already shaken up their system with his altruistic rule breaking. A full force of his own.
He’s already more dangerous then aizen
I think calling the soul society 'the good guys' is extremely generous. Both the hollows and the head captain and his gang were portrayed as murderous monsters that grew in power by consuming soul stuff. The hollows a bit more upfront rabid beast about it being the main difference.
The only real 'good guy' is ichigo who really represents a certain naivete in regards to such.
It’s funny you said that . I mean you are right but people would praise ichigo cause they think he’s a “ gray area” type of protagonist because he fights alongside the soul society, when actually , ichigo has no idea how fucked up and corrupted the soul society is. Also the gotei 13 popularity kind of forced Kubo to paint the soul society as the “ good “ guys .
Daily reminder that Ichibe had full intention of turning Ichigo into the Soul King without his knowledge, and Kyoraku was just gonna go with it
@@Vini-zv3lr also yoruichi , the supposed laid back character suggested to kisuke that she kill shuhei cause he's poking his nose into soul society politics .
@@bqw2094 Was that in the novels? That seriously seems very out of character. Kisuke and Yoruichi are definitely willing to use (and endanger) people in their schemes, but I don't think they would ever just merc someone like that
@@Vini-zv3lr yes it was in the novels , kisuke said no to yoruichi suggestion and kisuke was even disturbed by it a little. Now I dont see yoruichi as a malicious person but she is a assassin and probably felt that shuhei investigation was gonna have very big consequences that would effect everyone.
Mayuri is to Bleach what Orochimaru is to Naruto in how both are morally deplorable scientists whose transgressions were largely ignored by series end.
Orochimaru is much worse than Mayuri.
@@0816M3RC he’s up there though
@@0816M3RC mayuri definitely worst
@@0816M3RC Mayuri is definitely way worse. Orochimaru isn't even all that bad when you compare him to the average high tier character in Bleach.
@@QrowxClover Orochimaru is selfish, disloyal, lacking any moral scruples and has no qualms killing allies.
Orochimaru's research is purely for selfish reasons and to pursue his quest for power.
Mayuri is certainly among the worst in terms of morality, but many members of soul society are technically criminals who deserve to die. Zaraki killed many people when he was only a child and many more as he got older. Unohana was a ruthless murderer. The nobility itself is corrupt and have their own version of society wherein the non-nobility can be abused with impunity.
Soul Society itself is this backwards afterlife with dozens of differing levels of poverty before you even get to having a decent afterlife, not including any other crises that may affect the regular people. However if you have a fair amount power and are willing to fall in line with the will of the Soul Society, you can reap immense benefits. During Zaraki and Unohana's fights it's even mentioned how they'd be criminals otherwise. The most unfortunate thing is that the Soul Society allowing these people to roam free, kill, and flourish is shown to be somewhat necessary because otherwise they would have lost the TYBW. It would take massive reforms and work to fix this issue, but I don't think Kyoraku can or is willing to. You would have to start small and go up to the top where a certain name obsessed monk holds sway, because he's also a monster in his own right.
It’s probably a result of them actively knowing that outside of those with high soul level will just be reborn in the human world if the perish. Why care for poor folks who are weak when their deaths and passions in Most cases just result in them coming back in the human world in which they don’t have to remember soul society standards.
Kyoraku isn't a monster
@@akhandtripathipyz9888He's a morally grey character.
I'm so glad you asked this. Bro, after the pernida fight, I wouldn't have minded if Uryu rocked up and finished him off as revenge for his grandfather
that wouldnt make any sense
He already made his revenge for his grandfather as he sacrificed his power back in Soul Society arc. Do morons even pay attention?
@Foolish Mortal but Mayuri did save uryuu so I think uryuu dont have the pride to kill Mayuri but he still hate Mayuri
I like how Mayuri and Kisuke are contrasted in the story. Throughout, Mayuri is clearly meant to be seen as evil and going too far while Kisuke has this image of a more wholesome scientist. But if you look at what their experiments, Kisuke is arguably more evil than Mayuri. Kisuke hides what he does behind the hat and fan while Mayuri simply does not care who knows. Mayuri in a way is more kind because you know what you're getting with him. With Kisuke, you always have to be on edge wondering if he's really a friend or if you're just one of his contingency plans
That's an excellent point!
I disagree is the killer whose openly a killer better kinder that a killer who does so in secret
i think you might be missing one really important point in your comment: what Mayuri did to the Quincies has nothing to do with science. Actually, a lot of people in this comment section seem to overlooked that his way of "experimenting" with the quincies was not the kind that will bring you any valid scientific evidence. That´s like pretendeing torture will give you valid information. Other than in the fight with Uryu, it is shown again with his "zombie army". Unfortunately, i have my doubts that Kubo is the most knowledgable and considerate person concerning history, to a point were it gets questionable... Mayuri is one of my favourite characters indeed. Kisuke as well. I´d put it this way: Kisuke is a scientist with high ethics in a dark society, Mayuri is a psycho killer with no ethics and a talent for inventing cool things that was given a job were he can use both these trades.
@@s.m2895 & the other one isn't a killer whatsoever
Kisuke was not more evil than Mayuri, especially since by Soul Society standards, he is actually quite ethical in his methods, and while he has his manipulative tendencies, he is fully aware and ashamed of them and is trying to do better, or at the very least, wants his allies to rein him in if he goes too far.
One of my beefs with the last arc , that I still liked , is that the quincies did not care one bit about ...the quincies . Most of them were even killed by ... other quincies
@@jigsawalwayswins8636 not caring about your allies is very unhuman
yup
@@jigsawalwayswins8636 reference to what?
@@jigsawalwayswins8636 Yeah because people being backstabbers and schemers in history means that it makes total sense for the Quincy to mindlessly attack each other for no reason.
@@jigsawalwayswins8636 Nigga in storytelling you need to have reasoning for characters to betray each other
It definitely rubs me the wrong way that arguably the nicest and most moral Captain (Ukitake) ended up being treated the worst in the final arc, while the most evil Captain arguably got treated the best. Mayuri being made to answer for his crimes against the Quincy is definitely something I'd personally have liked to see, but as you point out, it would probably have required the Wandenreich as a whole to have been handled somewhat differently.
You can argue the most evil captain was either Yama or unohana
@@MrGptheboii overall but currently not really
Your morality may not apply to the grand scheme of things in the afterlife. The business of the Shinigami isn't to behave morally, but to ensure balance between life and death and the flow of souls between both happens as it should. The Quincy literally threaten that balance by destroying, not freeing, souls when they kill them (as explained early on in the series), so while we look at Quincy as people, they (shinigami) look at Quincy as people with powers that will destroy the balance of life.
If their soul is infected by a Hollow it is destroyed because they cannot become a hollow, which is why they hunt hollows and exterminate them: because they pose a legitimate threat to their life. Which is also an issue for the balance of things.
Which means that the most humane thing to do may in fact be to kill them so their souls can be reborn through soul society and remove the destruction hollows present to their souls as a threat.
The morality of killing Quincy isn't as black and white in the grand scheme of things for those reasons.
It's also revealed that ALL captains go to hell when they die. So regardless what they do, they always serve penance in Hell.
@@CthulhuTheory you just added another layer to the fact that they're sent to Hell.
I like it.
@@CthulhuTheory this 100%. People need to realize and remember. Soul reapers are NOT good people. We saw that in first arc and we know it was even worse a thousand years ago. It’s pretty much explained in CFYOW. THey do anything to preserve the “law” and “order” in their eyes.
Kyoraku has done a lot to diminish some of Mayuri's more evil projects. He put an end to the subordinate bombs, freed the quincy zombie squad, gave shinigami rights to the arrancar zombie squad, and threatened more sanctions to get Mayuri to fall in line
Proof ?
@@JJKjordan Read Can't Fear Your Own World, the novel which takes place in between the 10 years timeskip of the final chapter
@@victorsantos4531so where I read it? Also, mayuri freed his zombies?
@@Ridleyslayer1102Yes, the quincy's and arrancar's that survived at the end of TYBW got a home in Hueco Mundo, while the dead fullbringers became Rukon District citizens and guardians.
I would’ve liked it if the Sternritter had more Quincy pride (ergo they’d hate Mayuri/Soul Reapers in general), but they’ve always striked me as a group of thugs (similar to the old Gotei 13) who mostly followed Yhwach because they had to/because he’s the closest thing to a god. Most of them are extremely self centered. Most of them don’t care about the well-being of one another, and some are happy to kill their own at a moment’s notice. As they are now, I don’t think many of them if any would care about what happened to their ancestors.
I think Juhabach just recruited any Tom, Dick, & Henry he could find that was available. Probably bribe them the possibility of having powers,
Most of them relied on their schrifts / not much Quincy techniques.
Same, it would've added to the complexity of real life conflicts or wars, where the other side, however morally wrong or questionable, also have loved ones, friends, people they care for or care for them. That's why groups like the Genei Ryodan in HxH is so good.
Their ancestors dead due to their own arrogance so why the Sternritters should care?
@@zeroskaterz92 you just answered your own question. Because they’re their ancestors. 💁🏾♂️
This point is so important and a great take. The Sternritter were terrible to me and didn’t leave much of an impression. They were fighting because they’re a group antagonist. Like I get that they think Yhwach is a god and he gave them power but that’s their only motivation. It would be so much strong is they all had a sense of comradery with each other and when one of them died it effected morale among them. Also, it would have been a great contrast to Aizen if Yhwach actually gave a fuck about his subordinates. When I say give a fuck about, I mean he has a legitimate emotional connection between them. Imagine if Kubo really invested in making Yhwach a more compassionate person and made him on a quest for pure vengeance a vengeance that has festered for a 200 years and instead of diplomacy and forgiveness, Yhwach has vowed to raise and army or a family that share that same conviction and drive. Personally, I wouldn’t show his malicious side until much later in the arc but that mystery would have been so intriguing and it would leave us, the reader, to have to question “who is right?”. We should have to catch ourselves rooting for some of the Sternritter. Also, another thing I would have added is that the Gotei 13 was responsible for killing a loved one of Yhwach just to make the tension so that much higher. A better story is right there and Kubo did a decent job for being rushed but he kinda dropped the ball with riding that obvious and more engaging plot point.
I never thought about it but it is odd that none of them seemed bothered by a) the Quincy purge or b) Mayuri’s involvement. I know not all of the Sternritter were born Quinceys but it would have been cool if two of them were “purge survivors” or the the descendants of one of Mayuri’s victims.
He'd have been doing it for less than 100 years and the bulk of the Quincies disappeared 200 years ago.
The Quincies Mayuri killed were either those left behind by the Wandenreich, or were those that left the Wandenreich like Uryu's grandfather.
Ishida was literally the descendant of Mayuri's victim. lmao
Those were killed by Mayuri were Quincies that followed Uryu's grandfather's teaching while the one in TYBW were opposed that teaching. It's two different sides of Quincy.
It’s not odd. They wouldn’t care if they even knew about those “half breeds”
ah finally someone else who remembers and still judges what a sick monster he was
always disturbed me they tried to make him a joke latter on
dude murdered people for fun
hell one friend of mine pointed out he is more evil then aizen or ywatch in terms of pure morality
and his staying a member of soul society really affects them being good guys
"dude murdered people for fun"
That applies to Kenpachi as well.
I wouldn't consider Mayuri to be worse than Aizen or Yhwach and honestly morals are just superficial rules we impose so society can function.
I mean... Not really? There's other people in the soul society that are worse than him. Everyone they've fought against have been worse than him. His biggest crime was dissecting a bunch of quincy (and lets be honest here, had the Quincy won the war 1000 years ago, they'd have done the same thing. Sure he's not the most moral character around, but I think he compares himself with the goti 13 from 1000 years ago and he tries to stay ahead of them by eliminating threats as soon as he sees them.
@@sp5ism Who... could possibly be worst than Mayuri ? Genocide,abuser,possibly molested Nemu,uses his men like dirt. The guy is almost a worst person than actual irl dictators.
@@tonylex3760 Ywach
@@sp5ism Nop, not even, Juha's goal was far more noble than Mayuri. Juha's goal is ending death for everyone, Mayuri s goal is satisfying his own scientific urges, nothing more.
Nobody:
Tommo: I think it's fascinating
I think that captains ARE allowed to treat their men as they see fit . It was said i think when mayuri tried to punish ikkaku and kenpachi intervened
@@omega.ak1 and thats what mayuri never did
The Manga needs massive Fixes and those
that say 'Only the last 2 chapters need change,
the rest can be adapted 1-to-1' are delusional.
Sounds harsh, ubt i have legit no other word.
We need much Fixing, duh.
@@nenmaster5218 Tybw was perfectly fine until the end, so no.
@@UryuCifer Do you realize how silly af you sound, saying the manga was perfect? Dude, even tommo, the youtube who's video we're under right now, has made videos expressing what total Failures the Zero Division and the Kido Corpse both were; this and much more.
You just sound silly, mate.
@@nenmaster5218 silly is you not being able to comprehend basic english, I said it was perfectly FINE, not that it was perfect. Also you are the first person to ever bring up kido corps to point out the arc being bad, like you actually had some weird expectations for them which I can tell you clearly didn't, seeing that you couldn't even remember their name so you are just using them as an excuse. As for squad zero ichibei was shown to be one of the strongest characters in the entire series and oh etsu even became a fan favorite. So them being underwhelming at most is faaaaar from being bad
Tokinada even mentions the soul society is rotten to its core
That's why I like the CFYOW novels. Tokinada's a monster, but he's not wrong about Soul Society either and when you give room for someone like him to dunk on you, that's when you know you've messed up.
The Soul Society has for the most part shown to be a bad place but changing over time during SS arc
@@0eyes Notice that rot gets worse the higher up you get into Soul Society's leadership. Tokinada actually stated as such in his meeting with Byakuya, Yoruich and Soifon, mentioning that all of Soifon's brothers died in implied set ups for the upper houses much to her shock/anger. Makes you wonder to what extent they sacrifice and lie to their underlings and enforcers. The answer is tragically obvious.
Yeah right, let's listen to the shittiest person that has ever lived in the entire bleach universe...
My original thought before the arc concluded was what either the Quincy would kill him so Urahara could become the leader of Squad 12 again or Akon/Nemuri would lead on as better more 'moral' characters.
Then he just became awesome, lost his daughter and we cried for him and he still helps Soul Society to this day.
Honestly I dunno if we would be complaining if he died instead, and it might've given the Quincy a moral victory, but I also liked the character development there too. I'm glad we got it.
I would rather have Kisuke, Kisuke wrongfully lost his place and is a much better captain.
Byakuya dying would have been huge gut punch that proved that even fan favorites aren't safe. Mayuri dying would have led to Soul Society becoming a better place in the long run. Basically I'm saying that both of them should have died for different reasons.
Akon isn't technically alive. He is a mod soul.
And it wouldn't make sense based on his character. He is always prepared. Even for death. He doesn't even keep his organs in his body.
Also kisuke is too sus to be a captain. I still believe we don't know his true agenda. He made the hogyoku before aizen. Meaning he was doing something similar to what aizen did. He created vizors out of hollowfied shinigami.
He technically created ichigo.
"and we cried for him" um what? I didn't. I felt sorry for Nemu who endured a life of torture only to die for this pos.
@@jermainekngdom3154 lmao, Urahara is sus but Mayuri isn't?
I personally think Mayuri works as a whole (including in the TYBW) because of what he represents for the Soul Society as a whole. Compared to other Captains, he truly embodies the "any means necessary" spirit of a military society (not just an organization - all of Soul Society is geared toward war. Sustainable living only for personnel (in the Seireitei) after all), which has been exemplified in earlier arcs. TYBW, then, in my book is showing his other side - not a "softer" side, but the reason "why" he is trusted (to an extent) beyond his scientific acumen. His consistent portrayal as loyal to the cause really comes to the fore here and of course that'd make him more of a heroic figure in the moment, because the reader will naturally root for the Shinigami here.
Objectively speaking though, his is just a different fanaticism from, say, Kenpachi's reason for fighting, beyond one of them fighting smarter and the other one harder. Mayuri's willingness to go to absolute extremes is, in my opinion, the natural result of his...shall we say, appreciation for the Soul Society as a whole and the Gotei 13 in particular, even though he doesn't truly care for any individual in particular. He's the type to be unable to see individual trees in favor of the forest. And, honestly, MOST Captains appear to have a similar mindset, though to lesser degrees (other notable examples would be, in my opinion, Aizen, Soi Fon, Urahara and Yamamoto) and that cohesion and drive makes them different from the other two major factions. Where Hollows are strong individualists and the Wandenreich are basically a militarized cult centered around Yhwach with little else driving them in TYBW, the Gotei 13 truly believe in their cause to varying extremes, even the ones that are normally mellow in day to day life. And it's that belief and the resulting cohesion that makes them as dangerous as they are, both as individuals and as a collective. This is also reflected in the self-sacrificial nature of how at least some of the Shinigami fight, or their willingness to take great physical injury to prevent something worse from happening to themselves or others.
Honestly he is just too interesting a character to kill off. He was an MVP during the TYBW and really helped carry everyone to victory if we are honest. Kind of like he’s just too smart to die. The entire soul society was complicit or directly involved with his experimentation, so really everyone would have to burn at the stake.
ehmmm no, the mvps are ichigo and aizen. Mayuri could have beaten the entire wandenreich (bar ywach) by himself and it still wouldn't matter next to ichigo and aizen defeating ywach
Violet Felder but that is bacause mayuri is kubo favourite i mean thats why he get all the spot light i mean kubo focus more on him kenpachi toshiro byakuya then ichigo(who kubo couldnt think uniqur power for shikai and benkai how was also in the entire if kubo stop trolling ichigo i mean could have given him hax)aizen visord zero squard
@@UryuCifer Aizen more so than Ichigo, without Aizen he wouldn’t have made it, but like I said Mayuri was an MVP, PERIOD. the manga speaks for itself, idk what to tell you. He was CLUTCH the entire time.
@@heavenofautos118 I mean Kubo created a very interesting character , when he thought up Mayuri. Mayuri is also a FAN favorite. with these things combined, it’s completely justified for Mayuri to be a fav for Kubo. Kubo doesn’t just hand Mayuri Ws though. And I like that.
@@UryuCifer thats a crazy argument as without mayuri the entire world would not exist.... at the very start of the arc he saved the world..Btw had he just did nothing on the battlefield. Ichigo would not have made it . Ichigo was literally stopped by people like askin.. Many very powerful reiastu's like the soul kings hand would have returned to ywach on top of his powers.. ichigo and azien stood no chance against ywach, its was uryu's dad magic arrow was the MVP
If you want to look at true moral ambiguity in Bleach, look at someone like Hiyori Sarugaki. She held the rank of Lieutenant, meaning that she once had a considerable level of importance, power and prestige within the Soul Society. And what did she do with that? She ran around violently attacking anyone who even slightly crossed her. There wasn't a safe face, stomach or ballsack within a half mile radius of this girl. If they let someone like her rise through the ranks, is it a surprise that Mayuri has?
I can't tell if you are actually being serious or just joking... I really hope you were just joking
@@UryuCifer Why don't you tell me why I would be joking about allowing an incredibly violent pos to have a position of power and we'll start from there.
@@clearspira bruh... thats like saying sakura shouldn't be a ninja cuz she punches naruto, or noelle in black clover shouldn't be a wizard cuz she hits asta, or the hundreds of characters in anime that do the exact same comedic relief thing... It's ok if you don't like it or you get annoyed by it, but it ain't serious nor a big deal.
@@UryuCifer The good old female on male violence double standard. ''It just ain't a big deal.''
@@clearspira in terms of lore, yeah. It's weird she can do that shit and come out unscathed. But you gotta be reminded in a meta context, she's part of a tsundere bully troupe, which is completely normal in Japan.
Trying to call out an Anime from the 2000's on some woke double standard wont really go anywhere.
I'll never got over the fact that Uryu just seems to ignore the fact that mayuri, brutally mutilated his grandpa. He even starts to joke with Mayrui in the hueco mundo arc. One of my issues with bleach, is with how comedy is placed. This instance, shouldn't have been a comedic moment, but rather a depressing one.
Uryu having to recieve help from a man who is truly the most evil soul in existence, should have been conducted with a more serious tone. Idk just a personal pet peeve of mine.
Edit: Yeah mayuri killed Uryu's grandpa with negligence, and Uryu just moves past this.
Uryu just moved past this? Wtf are you talking about? Uryu already made his peace when he sacrificed his power, the power that was given to him by his own grandfather, to clapped Mayuri.
@@zeroskaterz92 Then proceeds to joke with mayuri in the hueco mundo arc like he's an awkward uncle and not the man who's tortured and killed hundreds of quincy. Mayrui didn't do enough to justify Uryu moving past all the horrible things mayuri did, that's my issue.
He even seems to move past the fact that Mayuri is a daughter beater. What you expect to believe that Uryu made his peace with that as well, when he lost his power?
@@samramen8454 Uryu said he shot Mayuri with the intent to kill, Nemu remarked that she was relieved when he spared him and that's why she gives him the antidote.
He already made his peace and not blinded by revenge, a lesson that he learned because he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake that those Quincies who were purged 200 years ago did, blinded by revenge. Wtf are you on about?
You mean hundreds of Quincies that were warned to not disrupt the balance and yet they still bent on revenge towards Hollows, disturbed the balance that can potentially destroy the world? Uryu even agreed in the first arc that those Quincies deserved it and he sided with Shinigami's decision. Also the fact that Mayuri saved Uryu from Szayel as well. Both him and Renji couldn't even beat that Espada. Again, wtf are you on about?
Nemu is Mayuri's creation, it's not even his actual daughter to begin with. You don't even know the context and yet you're bitching about it. You clearly don't know wtf you're talking about.
@@zeroskaterz92 Revenge and not forgiving are two different things. I'm not expecting Uryu to go out and murder Mayuri. I'm just asking for some conflict and not having the entire issue of Mayuri's past actions being completely brushed aside from Uryu's side.
Yes brutally torturing Quincy should raise a little hesitation from Uryu in his relationship with Mayuri. Mayuri could have easily just killed the Quincy painlessly. But he didn't, he actively chose to dissect them in the most painful way possible. And what was worse Mayuri admitted to doing this for amusement. The Quincy were a near extinct tribe at this point in the story, from his perspective there was no reason to do this other than being psychotic.
Uryu letting bygons be bygons I can accept. But being on good terms to the point of joking with guy who is essentially bleach's Satan. Is a bit too far for me.
You brought up interesting points, but what you said, is arguing against something that I never intended in my first comment. Which is Uryu getting revenge, I never wanted that.
But rather, Uryu just having agency to the point of being able to not brush aside horrible inhumane acts done to the Quincy.
And with Nemu, I have to respectfully disagree. Uryu was disgusted by Mayuri's treatment with Nemu, to the point of wasting his power in killing Mayuri. How he can just forgive this in the next arc is such an enormous leap.
Again I don't want Uryu to kill Mayuri or even getting revenge. But to not just forget and effortlessly forgive Mayuri for his past actions. When Mayuri hasn't done nearly enough in repentance.
You could argue that forgiving Mayuri was a mature step on Uryu's part. And yeh it was, but I feel like Mayuri needed to do a bit more. But that's just me.
I won't add more to this discussion as you probably want to get on with your day. It was good to talk more with you, have a good day :) 👍
I definitely find it weird that the Wandenreich doesn't really care about the purge 200 years ago. At the very least a decent amount of them should've cared. And I feel like Mayuri should've died against Pernida.
This is just a guess on my part, but I'm pretty sure the majority of Yhwach's Sternritter weren't actually Quincy before being given their powers. The fact that there is a robot and a luchador amongst them seems to prove this, as well as the fact that they seem to rely mainly on the power of their Schrifts, rather than any of the Quincy techniques we had seen before.
I imagine that, after his revival, Yhwach simply searched for anyone with strong spiritual energy and a personality that would be susceptible to his charisma and promises of powers, similar to what happened in As Nodt's flashback, where we see him (As) on life support, and learn from his thoughts that he is completely afraid of what will happen to him after he dies.
it wouldnt have made any sense to him to die at pernida thats just your morality talking
Same. I feel like Pernida was nerfed hard against Mahito considering it’s the literal arm of the Soul King. The Soul King is the closer thing to a god like being in Bleach.
They don't care because they're on the military side of Quincy that against the Ishida's grandfather's teaching, the one that got purged 200 years ago. Quincies had a huge rift among each other in terms of their own politics.
Yet he’s back in Kubo’s new Bleach reboot.... Rukia and Renji’s child thinks he’s cool. lol 😂
Reboot?
@@akl-b
I think he's referring to the new Hell Chapter.
He really is Kubo's favorite and it's disgusting.
@@kamikazelemming1552 arc*
To be fair, Mayuri _is_ cool! He's just also pretty damn amoral when it comes to his research.
Did he deserve it? Probably, do I want that? Hell no. I want more mad scientist badassary in a brand new Hell Arc. :)
I guess we disagree then, because I very much want Nemu or Uryuu to finally kill him as Soul Society burns.
@@MrGksarathy so, uhm, where are all the tortured quincies at? Porro is in hell, so the many, many people killed by Mayuri should still be around, right?
@@Ridleyslayer1102 His zombies, mostly.
You'd think when the first invasion hit. Most of the Stern Ritter would've made an immediate B line for Mayuri. His particularly heinous crimes against the Quincies had to be in their daten.
Exactly. The reason why their attack on Soul Society is so brutal is partly because its revenge for the genocide the Shinigami perpetrated against the Quincy.
@@justinpachi3707 oh I definitely agree that it was a true blood war. The Shinigami in general were their targets.
But that's just the point. Yawach didn't actually care about the quincy and he was the one calling the shots. You've also got to remember they had that "blood purity" thing going on so I do question if they ever actually cared about what he did. He should still be punished though.
@@justinpachi3707 i feel like it was mostly business.They killed the shinigami because they are their enemies, and sure the shinigami don't have a right to complain about it, but there's no sternriter that seem to have a particular hatred for the shinigamis, while they do have a supremacist streak going on against the hollows. They are brutal in both case, but you don't have any quincy goes about how they will make shinigami pay for killing their comrade. The fact soul society gets their comeuppance is almost accidental
Could you imagine Mayuri torturing and decimating Uryuu only to reveal The Antithesis against him and he just dies in the most agonizing way possible?
Mayuri just does a Gremmy and rips apart
@@cot1579 Or nothing happens since he's immune to all his drugs
I really do wish Uryu had a chance to show off the Antithesis in offing Mayuri. If Kubo wasn't gonna have the balls to kill Byakuya, he definitely would have been right in killing off Mayuri
I think if Kubo was really going with the "Soul Society is changing" thing they set up in the Fullbring arc, he would've axed Mayuri cause he's probably the most evil character in the show. Some of his crimes are for the greater good, but a lot of them aren't and I can't believe he needed to torture that many Quincies just to study their bodies. What could he get from 2,000 bodies he couldn't get from 1,000?
I imagine the Sternritter hunting for his head, and he gets tons of badass moments but they keep coming one after another throughout the arc, wearing him down until he and Pernida finally kill each other.
Pernida was the arm of the Soul King. It was pretty disappointing that Pernida went down like that lol.
Mayuri is Kubo’s favorite character
After all this "ss" didn't realy change they accept ichigo because he saved them twice but that's the extenct of it but even this doesn't matter much giving what they were willing to do to him
I agree!
Yamamoto and the others worked so hard to reform Soul Society from what it once was to what it is now, while not anything close to perfect, it is much better than it was. To keep such a chaotic evil person employed at the top is pure lunacy. He always has the ability to choose humane ways of gathering intel but consistently chooses the most violent and harmful ways instead. And so few people throughout the show are bothered or seem to care! Why do they not care about the man who murders others for fun?!
@merkikima I've always been hung up on this line after Ichigo gets his powers back where Hitsugaya says it only happened because Ichigo changed Yamamoto and Soul Society in his battles. I feel like the only person on the planet who remembers that line but I think it matters. Sure, they would've made him Soul King if they had no other choice but that doesn't mean they didn't change. I think people also forget the nobles barely existed for the first fifteen years of Bleach except the ones on Ichigo's side, then just when things are about to get better Kubo's like "oh, the Central 46 doesn't matter even though they've always been really important until now, nobles who've never been in the Gotei or involved in TYBW can beat captains in a fight and even if they lose Ichibei exists so nobody can ever win lol". Obviously Soul Society wasn't gonna be perfect at the end of Bleach but it looked like it was on the way up, and I feel kinda cheated.
@Bethany Huis They could just draft Urahara now that Aizen's gone, Mayuri's not the only game in town anymore and no one else uses most of his science anyway.
I imagined and hoped while reading the chapters weekly that Pernida would kill Mayuri. Pernida steals Mayuri’s bankai and has it eat him alive as Mayuri laughs maniacally as he’s devoured by the zanpakuto that he experimented on for centuries. Or of course Uryu kills him.
But he didn’t die because Mayuri is the goat
Don’t think Uryu will kill him.
Only thing about this video that could've been better is using the term "consequinces", great stuff!
Nice, I literally just finished your top ten power video. Mayuri is such a great character.
Something I just thought of regarding Mayuri's imprisonment in the maggots nest. If I remember correctly they took him out of their wen Urahara became captain long after the blood war happened. He was likely imprisoned for his role in the blood war given that it was believed that the Quincys were wiped out afterwards.
Personally, I find his argument about the potential Quincy invasion to have some holes in it; I mean, at that point, I think it’ve become known that Uryu came along to rescue Rukia, and had been sent there by Urahara. In order for Mayuri’s argument to work, an invading Quincy would have had to have been of unknown origin, with an unknown agenda, and either have killed themselves (and destroyed their body in the process), or flat out vanished without a trace. The case with Uryu was too ‘open and shut’ to warrant the concern of a future attack
He knew about the future attack as regular quincies do not hve Volstanding/ letz still but Uryu did have it during their fight. It was a new technology that quincies developed in the shadows. Ryukken and Souken stole that glove that gave temporary Volstanding. The quincies on Earth do not hve letz still like Uryu as Mayuri hve experimented with every surviving quincy and none of them had this technology. Its not because Uryu was a genius. It was because this technology came from the shadows. This new technology made Mayuri suspect that something is being hidden and the quincies may have survived and were developing new technologies.
@@divakaranchandrahasan7249 Okay, I went to look back at that particular fight...and, indeed, Mayuri was shocked by the Letz Still, having never seen it before.
Alright, that is my bad...though I WILL criticize Kubo for not explicitly reminding the readers of that fact, when Mayuri confronted Yamamoto about ignoring his warning. The fight was brought up, but that little tidbit wasn't (at least, not that I remember)
Or who knows, maybe it was just too easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment; Uryu looked like he was about to his avenge his grandfather, and Mayuri's dialogue could've easily been dismissed as generic 'this cannot be!' dialogue you typically hear from villains who are about to get their comeuppance.
Either way, thanks for catching that
It would probably have been interesting to have some consequences to Mayuri's horrible actions because he is the one whose horrible deeds are shown the most and because of his history with the quincies.
But the Gotei and the Wandemreich are both organisation with goals and very little regards to morality (the goal justify the means).
We know that the first Gotei was a gang of murderous people, Unohana and Yamamoto where monsters. Zaraki much like Unohana killed for his own "fun". They emprison "potentially dangerous people" and free some when they are deemed to be valuable assets (ie : Mayuri and Aizen).
As for the Wademreich it seems they only worship Ywabach and do not seem to care about the life of quincies being taken by him. So it does not surprise me that they did not care about those who suffered at Mayuri's hand and that they have not encountered ever.
What bothered me most is how quickly Uryu is accepting teaming with Mayuri in Hueco Mundo and how little he seems to care about it.
Yeah the Mayuri stuff in Hueco Mundo feels like a direct attempt to sweep his previous villainy under the rug. Most of his scenes with Uryu are played for laughs.
I know I am 1 year late, but your idea of a final confrontation between Uryu and Mayuri AND having Mayuri die from the hands of Uryu would have been genious... for 3 reasons :
1- Establishing a conclusion to this unfinished business
2- Establishing the updated power scale of Uryu (which we didn't get in an Arc about Quincies) - and do not talk to me about Haschwalth since Uryu lost anyway.
3- Give Uryu a clear Win in TYBW, and enabling my second point
And who would Pernida be fighting then? I guess Ukitake? The Left Hand of Progress vs the Shinigami with the Right Hand of Stagnation.
This is absolutely one of my biggest frustrations with the TYBW and Bleach as a whole. Narratively, the Mayuri and Uryu fight would have been one of the best fights in the arch. It really does feel like a missed opportunity for his death or at the very least another hamulating defeat.
When I read your topic title I immediately thought YES! But after listening to your video, I change my mind to no. The Quincys in the Blood War Arc never showed any connection with the Quincys that got slaughtered. It very much seemed like BWA Quincys didn't know what happen to the Quncys later, didn't cared or both. In fact Yhwach caused the death of two people in the recent Quincy families. It would seemed weird and undeserved if they did get revenge when they had nearly no connection with the people whom got slaughtered.
Well, he did FAR more than what was needed, and thoroghly enjoyed every minute.
Reviving arrancars to use in the war: Okey, needed, keeping them conscious so they know they are slaves, not needed.
Killing 28,000 souls, needed and aproved, he is horrible but this one gets a pass, except, he conveniently chose to kill poor people and not the nobles so... well, kinda gets a pass.
Experimenting on quincies: not needed, the was was over, most of those quincies wanted no more war, and what he did to grand pa Ishida, was completely unneeded, and buy was he ever so happy of his actions.
And in the end, he just gets to be happy and free.
0:56- it’s characters like Mayuri and to a lesser extent, Zaraki that makes Bleach stand out compared to Naruto and One Piece in its pre-time skip period where characters were relatively squeaky clean good guys for the most part. That moral ambiguity becomes more and more prominent as the series goes on.
I don't think he necessarily *deserved* to die, but he absolutely did not deserve to have such a massive spotlight shone on him in yet another arc. So many characters are thrown by the wayside to give him yet another chance to shine as a character, and that's one of Kubo's biggest failings as a writer IMO - the fact that he doesn't give his characters the treatment they deserve.
I agree 50/50. I think he does deserve his spotlight because he is a very intriguing character that surprisingly a lot of people actually have interest in. The fact that he doesn’t rely on flashy moves, power ups, rage moments, or anything else typical characters use to gain the upper hand in a fight is a breathe of fresh air. Scientists aren’t typically 1v1 combat gladiators, but seeing him duke it out with the best and win is great. The man is genuinely a piece of shit, which I love lol. But I do wish characters like Chad got more love. Chads power was also interesting and could’ve been expanded on. So yes, Kubo is very biased with his characters.
Characters aren't supposed to get special treatment just because they "deserve it", that's bad writing.
The simple fact is Mayuri was more clever and prepared than most of the others so he ended up taking part in more of the important battles. Battles that can't be easily skipped over, and because the arc was rushed that meant that sadly other characters got shafted.
@@corruptangel6793 Don’t those points show why a character “deserves” more love than others?
@@ReeVoque All that matters is telling the story in as complete a manner as possible the best way possible.
Chojiro deserved to have his 1 battle in the series shown. The 0 Division deserved to have their last stand shown. Omeada deserved to have his entire damn arc shown so we can appreciate his character more 😤
Unfortunately situations like those either A) serve no real purpose other than to show what happens and only the end result actually matters
B) are largely unimportant to the story so the screentime is better spent elsewhere or
C) they impact the story in a way the author doesn't want. Interupting the flow, revealing something too soon, negatively influencing the tone or whatever.
There are probably even more reasons I can't think of at the moment.
your argument is so pathetic so the most smartest cunning and prepared captain wasnt supposed to be prepared at a casulaty like this? and characters didnt were thrown by the wayside at all, no its not a failing of kubo is the failing of his dumb fans like you that need to be spoon fed to actually understand his story
One of my favorite captains, he's funny as hell when he fights his opponent but I thought he would meet his end when he fought Pernida! I like how they showed his softer, more human side toward the end of that fight!!
100% the reason why I like him so much is that his fights are just so entertaining, as a scientist char the way he ends fights is never just "I have better firepower than you" it's always something so different, like the drug that slows down perception he injected Syzelaporo with or his million layer mod on his Bankai against Pernnida
@@therranolleo468 he also beat toshiro and gisellle
Captain Mayuri is the very definition of the term"A Necessary Evil"!
Is he “deserve” to die? Yeah sure. Is there anybody who can kill him? Maybe, but not many would risk going off against him. Mayuri is the case where his strength and value make him extremely hard to kill.
Yamamoto was the leader even before the quincy invasion. He paid the price for Mayuri's misdeeds and rightfully so. Most of soul societies past misdeeds and shady ways of being run, were directly reflected by his leadership. It showed during the fight with Aizen when he was willing to kill everyone to stop him, which to me is just as bad as Mayuri blowing up a few of his men.
It would be cool if one of the Sternritter had a "memory" illusion power to use against Mayuri, making him revive the atrocities he done in the past but in the position of his victims, making him be demolished by the enemy while he has to live the same suffering he caused.
I know literally everything about bleach as far as the canon manga and anime but I can’t stop watching all of your videos.
Just looking at the conversation between Mayuri and Pernida really exemplifies this. Seeing Mayuri call Pernida just a piece of the Soul King and Pernida reject that identity to call himself a Quincy, I would’ve thought Pernida was the hero if I didn’t have the context.
My personal theory is Kubo ended up really liking Mayuri and couldn’t bring himself to kill Him off
I believe Nemu could shine a light on his exploding squad member incident.
Bleach Wiki - Nemu is the artificially created "daughter" of Mayuri Kurotsuchi. He used a combination of Gigai and Gikon technologies to bring her into existence. Akon and Nemu discuss the Nemuri Project. Nemu was created as the seventh incarnation of the Nemuri Project, which aimed to create new souls from "Konpaku cells".
Perhaps he created an entire squad in the same way. He wouldn't give a toss about them dying if he could simply push a button and produce a hundred more in one afternoon. Neither would the head captain; they aren't real people after all, merely replaceable weapons of war. Perhaps their memories are also artificial to make them believe they had actual training etc. In fact it'd probably be beneficial to destroy them all at once so the ones that remain don't remember their allies unexpectedly exploding. If you're going to plant a bomb inside someone it's probably best they didn't know about it! As I say; Push a button and like magic you have an entirely new squad of disposable exploding foot soldiers.
I understand the disappointment in Kubo not building off of Mayuri's crimes against the Quincy, but I think it makes sense given who Ywach is. The Quincy leader would never care about a grudge when he's poised to rule the world and the Sternritter fall in line or else.
Mayuri is one my second favorite captain, but I agree that it was a big missed opportunity for kubo to not write a major story beat revolving around him and his history with the Quincies.
He’s my absolute variant caretaker and I believe a necessary evil. He is the truest reflection is the soul society as a whole and there is a beauty in that.
the thing you have to remember about Mayruri, Uryu, and the Quincy is that it was only personal for Uryu. to other Quincy, Mayrui just killed a bunch of Quincy, but to Uryu he killed someone immeasurably important to him. not just his mentor but his grandfather.
And yet Uryu failed to kill him.
@@0816M3RC true, but I don't think it is in his character to kill. even given the specific circumstances between Uryu and Mayruri.
I really love this dude. Amazing character and also has some good comedic moments
I always thought it would of been Cool if Uryu killed him to prove loyalties to the quincy and cementing him as an enemy to the SS even if his friends don't fully buy it leaving the Arc to now focus a bit more on Nemu is the spots of Mayuri and her getting some similar development as characters like nanao and taking over as captain
Yes that should have deffinetly happened.
I find the proposal of Uryu killing Mayuri to be interesting because it would actually give the sternritter and schutzstaffel memebers a reason to atleast partially to trust Uryu cause thoughtout the entire arc it felt like everyone in the vandenreich knows that he's suspicious and possibly a traitor but for whatever reason don't act upon those feelings just letting him be. I just find it a little goofy that there's a big reveal that Uryu's a part of the bad guys team and Yhwach's heir but the entire organization he infiltrates don't even believe he's on their side.
wouldnt make any sense
@@emilioalveran4832 how?
@@emilioalveran4832 You keep repeating that "X doesn't make sense" with zero arguments LOL
This was so much fun to listen to. Would love to have an actual convo with you about this stuff. Love your work! Keep it up!
Yes , absolutely. The quinces not mentioning anything about mayuri huge Quincy genocide was such a oversight to me . It feels as if Kubo wants us to just forget about what a asshole mayuri was , he should have died not Nemu
It's an oversight not a plot hole. People use the word plot hole for anything,and by that logic all soul reapers should die they took part in killing the quincy not just mayuri.
@@dec2567 Mayuri specifically is a cruel sadistic bastard , that’s why he is targeted or should have been targeted .
yama.YOU QUINCY KILLED MY BEST FRIEND YOUR PURE EVIL AND I MUST HAVE REVENGE
all the quincy....your mad scientist dude over there dissected 100's of us alive
Non of the Quincies Mayuri killed would have been part of the Wandenreich. They would have been those left behind by it or those who abandoned it.
Besides, non of the Sternritter are shown to be particularly sentimental towards others within their own ranks, let alone Quincies they had no interaction with. Hell, they kill eachother without batting an eye. The only one who would have been out for Mayuri would be Uryu.
@@corruptangel6793 I agree
I agree with you, i also was expecting something else for mayori in the last arc, at least something done by Uryo since he knew what mayori did in the past to the Quincy people.
Beautiful video to start the morning with 😍
Yes, I still never forgot what he did to Uryu’s grandfather…
You know being a asset that is so great that they can't just replace you really does just say "Yeah do whatever you want"
I like Mayuri precisely because of the moral ambiguity. It's the same reason why I like Akainu in one piece, even though most fans hate him.
what moral ambiguity??
he murders and tortures for pure fun??
dude is just pure evil
heck one of his crimes is genocide
It's morally gray that Yama keeps using him instead of vaporizing him but the guy himself is 99% evil. Always glad to see an Akainu fan though, can't wait for his backstory.
@@scottgrasser9737
Dude, a former nazi rocket scientist was hired for the space programs. He may be psychotic, but he still is useful and is allowed to be free and work in the Gotei 13 in spite of it.
Hell, lots of people in the US federal govt (Like Obama or Bush) did way worse than Mayuri and are still free men who receive thunderous applause when making speeches. It's a real phenomenon.
@@qb4428 That is because usefulness will always trump morality.
Kubo did something else with Mayuri, and this clip convinces me to think this way.
Great video as always.
Ngl the Soul Society is simply awful as an afterlife. The Shinigami basically killed the god of Bleach (the Soul King) and left him as a living corpse used a glorified battery. The Shinigami themselves also have a pretty warped sense of morality which isn't surprising that many of them are either psychopaths/sociopaths. The original Gotei 13 were basically ruthless killers.
The Soul within the Rukongai are forced to live in worse conditions than in modern earth and are largely ignored by the Shinigami. It's honestly no surprise that this sort of environment created the circumstances for people like Aizen, Tokinada, or Mayuri to arise.
ya the regular Souls in the Rukongai are in poverty & the Gotei is like its own palace/military facility & walled up whilst those regular Souls/citizens almost totally ignored by Shinigamis.
I love this channel. Such great content. Always reminds me of the amazing Bleach stories and you always nail expanding the ideas behind the lore. So well done. Thank you so much ❤
Nah, just like Shunsui, you do what you need to, at the end of the day was Mayuri who showed up and guaranteed the victory.
no mayuri defiantly crosses the line to just being a evil prick
there is no moral gray zone in genocide for fun
What you described is known as... Evil.
@@synmer7104 necessary evil?
If Mayuri died Nemuri 2.0 could not be made... If he died he would take his work with him. He had great character development in the last arc. Even his outrageous outfits have their own development.
I don't think Mayuri should have died. But after his battle of Pernida, he should have paid for his crimes through an uncurable disease/curse caused by the giant hand, an ironic fate to him, to keep him experimenting on his own life to get rid of it.
I have said this plenty of times in discussion about this. I thought with all this "Sins of the past" theme going on Mayuri would be one of the main targets. I was waiting for someone to stray from the Wandereich's goal and seek vengeance for someone who was a victim of experiments. Of course nothing happen and its one the number of missed narrative points of the last arc. Maybe with the next arc focusing on hell Mayuri will be at its gates and punish for his crimes.
I haven't watched/read Bleach in such a long time, do we get a detailed backstory for Mayuri? He obviously became chaotic evil after entering the Soul Society because characters that did absolutely nothing compared to him are seen going to hell. How did he go to "heaven"?!
@@kamatari1220 Mayuri was probably born in Soul Society unlike Szayel who was born human, died and then became a Hollow.
@@kamatari1220 We know nothing of Mayuri before he was imprisoned in the Maggot's Nest. We don't even know why he was imprisoned.
@@0816M3RC That's what I thought. I consider it a plot hole. If you have someone on the side of the good guys and he acts against their goals, there's no reason why you wouldn't explain how they got to be that way.
@@0816M3RC Did Kubo ever explain that either? No one can be born a hollow, and humans turn into souls/hollows, so how are people born as spirits?
I think you should do more of these ramble videos on just your thoughts on certain situations or outcomes. I really find it interesting
Mayuri is the Rick Sanchez of Bleach
My favorite captain, so looking forward to the focus he gets in this arc 🙌
He's the Author's Favorite, but yeah,
Uryu or Ryuken SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO KILL HIM.
It would have kept up the facade that Uryu had switched sides too. But instead, poor NEMU has to die for this sleaze. Yuck.
Ryuken basically disavowed the Quincy and Uryu understood why they had to be killed. The only reason Uryu would have to kill Mayuri is his grandpa, but the battle in Soul Society likely proved a point of catharsis for destroying Mayuri's pride and body. Beyond that, Uryu isn't ever really proven to be driven by revenge, so it doesn't make sense for him to go out of his way to kill Mayuri either.
Like it or not, Kubo writes his characters consistently.
@@CthulhuTheory Disagree with the last part of your fake-intellectual post. Mayuri coming back to be a silly mad scientist we're supposed to laugh at is forced and gay.
@@BlackWingedSeraphX Probably shouldn't resort to weak homophobic comments while opining on intellect, sir.
@@CthulhuTheory Cry, incel.
@@BlackWingedSeraphX did mayuri killed your family pathetic troll?
Congrats on 110k+ Your analysis has been always great.
I appreciate it, thanks a lot!
Imma be honest before even watching the video:
I think if Mayuri didn't happen to also be Kubo's favourite character, he would have died.
I can't imagine people like Ishida can be fine with him being left alive after what he did to his grandfather, I'm sorry but I just can't.
Same with Ichigo, I doubt he's aware of all of this but for fucks sake. I swear Mayuri did more harm to people than others that we consider "villains" in the story.
Yes, Tsukishima and Ginjo are "evil" (not really with Ginjo but ok) but their actions *pale* in comparison to what Mayuri did.
*BOMBING* his own subordinates!? Like what? How does that even go unnoticed? He sure sounds a lot more evil than Tsukishima lol
I agree
This. This. This. This.
It feels so weird seeing people like Rukia and Renji interact with Kurotsuchi, someone that killed his own division members...
I believe Ichigo did become aware of all that eventually lol, maybe I'm wrong
i assure you even if he werent kubos favorite he would still be alive and well, also ishida was finwe with him during the arrancar arc so what do you mean?
yeah and mayuri saved the worlds so again whats your point?
@@emilioalveran4832 @emilio alveran I mean he shouldn't have been ok with that, obviously?
The Hueco Mundo arc had some weird moments -that I remember even Tommo bringing up in the past- were Ishida of all people had comedic moments with the person that was the main reason for his grandfather's death and dissected his corpse?
Yet we are supposed to believe people like Barragan are the bad guys in comparison? Mayuri did far worse than Barragan ever did on screen or was implied to do.
The point the OP is trying to make is that Mayuri gets a pass on all that because he's Kubo's favorite character, and he's right!
Ishida having a comedic moment with the -in essence- murderer of his grandpa that had also drove the Quincys to just a handful after killing, dissecting and experimenting with more than 2000 Quincys makes NO SENSE.
Mayuri was mvp in the tybw arc, he won his fights,he kept the other captains alive, he did so many things to counter act the quincy, he was a general badass!
1.After his through defeat in hands of uryu, mayuri probably had a re think of everything he was doing, it is character development.
2. We only knew Quincy through a very decent person like uryu, 1000 year blood war given us the true picture of how evil or apathetic most quincys where, which exonerate Mayuri a lot.
Fun fact I observed in old days- It was fashionable to hate on Mayuri to show how great a human you are with out doing any thing positive for the society, so if any one start talking how much they hate mayuri, you can mark them as a hypocritical fraud and avoid.
My boy back again with an interesting topic and a throughout analysis. Shit's great m'dude
Nemu didnt deserve to die if you ask me !!
But although Mayuri is the MVP of TYBW ive always had my gripes with the character and how he was handled, like his fans trying to justify his abuse towards Nemu and acting like since he's one of the author avatar for Kubo (with Kisuke and Aizen) that doesnt mean we're forced to love him
nobody justifies that, his fans know he is an asshole but dont ignore that he is not a villain also
@@emilioalveran4832 oh ive seen some Mayuri fanboys that tries to justify his treatment of her but not all of them are like this fortunately
to me the attempts to portray Nemu and Mayuri's relationship as wholesome fall worse than flat for me
I have to hand it to you you make very good analyses, bringing up very good points
Thank you!
Mayuri started as maybe the worst captain but finished the story as one of the best and absolutely MVP of TYBW arc. He has a great fight and deserved to survive. He isvmayuri afterall
Jimmy Neutron nonsense.. OHH WHOOPPEDY DO I MADE A NEW DOO DAD THAT MAKES ME WIN THIS FIGHT. I liked Ken fight with that imaginary guy interesting and badass concept. Ishidas fight with Mayuri early in Bleach was spottttt one of the best fights.
The invention came with a significant cost and historical not just popped out fo no where.
@@Turnpost2552 I'm sorry but at a certain point most of fights and powers weren't making any sense. The only thing was that every time mayuri was on screen since the arrancar arc it was a Savage and badass moment
You'd make one hell of a political science or world history lecturer man.. wow. Love your vids
Can we all at least agree that killing Nemu was a really dick move though? The poor girl got destroyed every time she appeared and when we thought she would finally do something cool Kubo simply killed her like she was nothing.
I THINK TITE KUBO
totally forgot about a LOT OF THINGS
the quincyes
him killing his squad members
etc
My Theory:
I think VERY early on, Uryu was intended to Marry Nemu. Back then she was just going to be an abused Vice Captain/Daughter.
But as the series went on, Kubo changed it. He made Nemu an unstable experiment incapable of feelings (even though she could recognize how evil Mayuri was) and he started liking Mayuri so he tried to force this "silly villain" bullshit with him in the Hueco Mundo Arc.
When the Final Arc happens, Kubo didn't have it in him to kill Mayuri, so he killed Nemu instead. Nasty lol. But that's my theory.
yeah your theory is still wrong and pathetic troll
@@emilioalveran4832 Cry more, beta.
I always wondered how odd mayuri's zanpakuto was. Zanpakuto are supposed to be reflections of their users' personalities, such as ruri'iro kujaku being just as vain as yumichika. However, we don't really see Ashisogijizo reflecting mayuri's personality. All we know is that mayuri is a scientist and treats his sword like a science experiment. I almost feel like if Kubo said he literally tortured Ashisogijizo until it gave him his bankai out of fear, I'd believe him
Mayuri hates perfection. his zanpakuto is a baby/Caterpillar something that grows and evolves. people forget mayuri does everything he does for science he sees EVERYTHING as a research subject his zanpakuto and even himself and he doesn't only inflict pain on his enemy alot of the drugs that he injects himself with causes him intense pain
I think Mayuri and Kisuke are the “chaotic good” characters in the Bleach series; their motives for the most part are noble (in the sense that what they do is either for Soul Society or for scientific advancement), but their methodologies are *highly* questionable
If the anime can do more to extend the events of the war, I would love to see more skirmishes on the first day of the second invasion. Not full on fights, more touch and go interactions as foot soldier Shinigami and Quincies fight to maintain territory and Stern Ritters and Officers bump into each other.
And from there, I would really like, even if half an episode of Mayuri running around with Nemu on his research to assemble the Corpse Unit and being jumped on by more emotional Quincies like Bazz B or Robert, who are like "So *you're* the famous Mayuri Kurotsuchi!", attack him but he escapes in typical Mayuri fashion.
Have his stamina slowly deplete as he runs around all night avoiding attacks and when his fight with Pernida ends, he collapses from an exhaustion he had been keeping under control with performance enhancing drugs.
Maybe I'm asking for too much, but it'd be something to further the war aspect of the arc and give Mayuri some much deserved headaches.
no. simple answer
I've read a fanfic in which the Quincy in the world of the living and that were killed 200 years before the series were exiles from Juha Bach's Empire. This would explain why the Wandenreich don't care about their fate.
Personally I just can’t get over the uneasy feelings I get whenever his character is shown. Knowing the type of man he is and how the creator almost encourages his behaviour since he never gets truly punished or changes the way he treats people. Maybe because it reminds me too much of how real doctors and scientists have gotten away with doing the same to real people. It’s almost like saying that whatever was done to the victims was worth it for the knowledge or experience gained from their bodies or reactions.
It could also be that the author comes from a country like Japan that continues to deny or justify that they’ve done similar actions. For example by choosing not to teach their citizens of their country’s shameful actions and discrediting the victims of the acts.
All of this combines into that uneasy disgusting feeling I get whenever Mayuri is “present”.
I agree mayuri makes me feel unconftobale i've read about thoses humain experiments and even seen real pictures and it's realy disturbing how mayuri is depicted as this captain worthy of respect and that his crimes don't matter anymore
or you can not take a manga seriously and learn to separate fiction from reality kid
@@emilioalveran4832 why are you mad? Theire are things that are disturbing even in fiction i realy don't get your reaction are you a mad mayuri fan? Learn to respect others opinions people are different after all insted of acting all high and maighty
Mayuri paper in TYBW made me love this character. Every single panel he had in the TYBW i was excited.
I do agree with you, Mayuri should've had some kinda of punishment. Death sounds kinda to much cause i can't imagine Bleach without Mayuri
MayurI:
Sternritter:
Uryu: THIS IS FOR MY FAMILY!!!
I've long since accepted that mayrui is the original rick trope. And if you wanted to make the wacky comparison, he's basically the rick of bleach. With nemu as his morty.
"Mayuri never did anything wrong!"
Well, someone had to say it. I think it's a legal requirement at this point.
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but the Soul Society being very grey morally and accepting atrocities is because they are not so much a force for good v evil and more Order v Chaos and looking at it from that angle the utilitarian cruelty often shown by many of them makes perfect sense.
I think Kubo went for some kind of irony of how the gotei even if they are sometimes so inmoral for some things they always try to protect something and Quincy being so proud of themselves they never really care about anyone else like when they almost kill each other when ichigo arrived in TYBW
Your thing about mayuri’s past crimes, the quinces of the vandenreich would probably not even be aware of the ones mayuri expirmenred on. Of course they wouldn’t bring it up or even care
This video gives actually a great basis for the hell arc. The hell arc can really balance the karma and redefine what was good and evil within this universe or make it more abyssmal in the sense that there is really no right and wrong.
I just think that the cruelty of Mayuri has been retconned by the author
Considering the change in attitude, I think Uryuu's arrow had more of an effect that we realize.
Perhaps rather he died and was reborn, rather than just escaped.