Fun fact: these buses were actually intended to compete with the Enviro 400 City and be sold outside of London! But I guess the design was just too impractical in comparison.
It would be pretty interesting seeing this in other liveries though. The closest thing we have to imagine is the green one that went to Yorkshire for a trial (didn't didn't even go on revenue service)
I don't think it was the design, it was the price and the engine. Both were inferior to the cheaper alternatives by both ADL and Wright. If the cost was reasonable, I think it would have seen more adoption.
Never knew there were only 6 in service. This bus is really common for me as it’s on the H12, 340 and some school routes like 696, 697 and 698 but I’m pretty sure just 698.
Shame, if they weren't so expensive, maybe they'd have been more popular. I mean, everyone's moving on to EV's now anyway, maybe they should have been designed for that instead.
Thank you for a really useful historical document. Thanks for expanding upon the history of "Son of Routemaster - sometimes there are evolutionary dead-ends. The front still looks stylish; Upstarirs rear probably more sensible outside of the high-capacity needs of London routes. The air vents in the ceiling at 2:35 would indicate that air-con *is* installed??
I've ridden on both, and the Routemaster feels more stylish with its rear staircase and bordeaux coloured interior. I think they have not been exported because there is no provision for airconditioning - both HK and SG would require aircon. I'm impressed with this comparison - i didn't think anyone else would notice, much less make a video about it. Great job.
If I'm not wrong it was not meant for export especially to the Asian market. If I remember correctly, local operators could order it but no one took up the offer. I'm glad you enjoyed the video
@@glitchFan2428the new London mayor stopped these buses from being made and exported to Asian markets. When sadiq Khan took over as new mayor of London. The new route master ones stopped being made. If im correct it was to save money for tfl for their budget. And also the Boris bus was last in Singapore because boris Johnson was last mayor of London in 2014 and 2016. Ever since New mayor of London took over. These buses are not being made. But they won't export to SG or Other asian countries. Because these buses the New route masters and SRM are a symbol of London. So I do belive London is it's rightfull home. Also it also attracts tourists. So my advice to Singaporeans will be to visit London for the 3 door Boris buses. Since I know your channel is a mix of Singapore and UK buses content. And the buses can only be enjoyed in London.
According to bustimes it seems like there's only 6 and all are with RATP. 2 more similar models were previously in service but have been withdrawn, maybe those are the one's you are referring to?
@@GEORGEonbuses2024i remember being so baffed when i heard the engine. Thinking wow this looks like an RM but sounds like a whv/mhv.. and then go-ahead have the ehv also but those are over in east, well they were but now they are in my local area at NP garage on the 476s or 91s
really easy to tell actually, even from the right side and front. On the right side, NRMs should not have windows and seats stretching all the way back (if it did it's a B5LH (SRM)); on the front, just look at the licence, NRMs all have LTZ xxxx regs.
When i used to drive the 14, i used to see these on the 37 from time to time. Havent seen em since but now that i do rail replacement, i see them on the 340 alot, dont think anyone else has them. Oh yh that pinner bus had them, hard to believe that was a metroline bus tho because i cant imagine the inner moquette and all that
My late father worked in College Road Harrow for many years. Maybe I should pay a visit there after a gap of several decades? That was long before the St Ann Centre was built
I expect the only thing the Enviro 400s beat this bus on is price. This probably is more expensive, but like cars, you get what you pay for. This bus looks more solid and better built. It also has proper old style Routemaster seats with a full hand rail. I think the loss of the second staircase and third door is a shame. Very handy features on busy peak period routes, when you need to get off but the first staircase and centre doors are obstructed. I've missed a stop a few times on standard layout buses due to this problem, the driver moving off while you're stuck on the stairs. The extra staircase and exit could be a life-saver in an accident or fire. The LT (AKA New Routemaster) should have become the standard bus across all London as the original Routemaster was, but Mayor Khan couldn't stomach it's link to Boris Johnson and cancelled further orders. No doubt if it were a Livingstone project Khan would have continued the orders for more LTs. I'm still waiting for a Khan success...
In some ways you might wonder why more were not built or ordered. The newer version of the Routemaster hasn’t had a decline in use but been reworked as things go. I think some operators prefer to have a choice of chassis or bodywork supplier and maybe this was the one that didn’t have the edge. The Enviro 400 City seems a good option and many have been sought so maybe that speaks volumes. Wrightbus vehicles are around London,maybe the engine and mechanics are not so great and that’s possibly why it’s had a limited success or impact.
I’ve heard of these and ridden on both this and the normal Borismaster think of the SRM as a Borismaster with the Gemini 3 like rear with the same Volvo B5LH chassis, sadly I don’t think these would have caught on as it was easier and a lot cheaper to just order the Gemini 3.
The Routemaster had plenty of criticism whan it came out. The RT was regarded as the best looking bus of all time - the second post war variant with roof box and illuminated lower deck route number being the ultimate in bus perfection.
@@fsr170409 In my experience as a passenger on the 73, the Routemasters had a habit of breaking down at the Barbauld Road stop in Albion Road. Revving the engine hard had no effect and everyone had to get off.
@kmitchell1150 Chiswick Works, maybe? Remember that Aldenham only became the bus overhaul centre when the northern extension of the Tube was canned post-WW2.
People liked the route master because could step on or off whenever speed permitted. Heath and safety now insist that whenever a bus coach train tram etc is moving the doors are closed so you can't just hop or off in slowi moving traffic
the SRMs look even weirder but a bit less weird vs the Boris master having the front looks alright the backside looks wrong almsot as if an actual B5LH bus of some form was let loose at the wrightbus factory with a boris master witch led to the weirder SRM being bread to say i aint from london and ive seen the boris masters never been keen on them not even the model versions witch i have 3 of
Having recently been back in London, I hate the straight staircases in the buses. They are very un ergonomic and a nightmare to negotiate. By contrast the rear staircase in the NBL’s is way better in terms of design. Just a shame that the buses are used as intended.
Haha air con is incredibly rare on UK buses from what I've seen. Ironically the only air con bus I remember being on was a First Vantage B5LH - the same chassis as these SRMs
Why can’t it be? It’s just a Routemaster with less features isn’t it? A bit like the old Bristol Rell single deckers. Some had twin doors l, some didn’t. Some had shallow windscreens, some had bigger ones, etc.
@@Wishful-Thinking I personally feel like the distinguishing feature of a routemaster is the open rear platform (despite front entrance units existing) so it's just strange calling one without a rear platform a routemaster. However one can very easily argue that the new routemaster is its own identity and therefore sharing the same front will class it as a routemaster. It's all down to the individual at this point. Thanks for watching 😁
@@Wishful-Thinking For me the distinguishing features of a Routemaster are the driver's cab, the rear entry platform, the stairs at the back, and of course being made by AEC. As AEC ceased to exist in 1979, I'm going to have to concede that if there are going to be new Routemasters, they're going to be made by other companies. And as most buses these are driver only operated, the driver's cab isn't coming back. So the only things remaining are the platform and the rear stairs. So if there are going to be new routemasters, they need to have at least the rear platform, and probably the rear stairs. Otherwise it's just a bus.
For me, the new Routemaster is the same as the new Mini, new VW Beetle, new Fiat 500 etc. The new vehicle is 90% different, but the manufacturers, cynically, try to benefit from the nostalgia and goodwill that was created by the original product’s name.
There’s no such thing as a “Fake Routemaster”!!! It is 2024 It’s just like calling a Tesla model S a fake Ford Model T The company built the Routemaster buses went out of business waaaay back in 1979.
@@glitchFan2428Yet an Industrial-Design firm would have been commissioned to design these buses, if this terrible design is what a team of university educated Industrial-Designers can come up with then standards have dropped.
Rubbish bus very trash. And ugly bus. One of these was on X140 before the bus became SL9. How ever route SL9 did trial this bus on route SL9 for the SRM wright bus. The New Bus for London has 3 doors. This one only haves 2 doors. They are the same from the front of the buses but different at the back. X140 or now SL9 will not be doing this bus anymore. Most likely these buses will be replaced with the new enviro 400 city mmcs. I be very surprised if a SRM a metroline one appears on the Uxbridge routes like routes U4. This will be something to keep an eye out on the SRM and new route master buses. For the Uxbridge buses. As for the Harrow buses London sovereign for the SRMs. Also the popular bus is the N9. Because it's route masters are very real and not fake. As for this route master SRM is completely fake and trash.
Fun fact: these buses were actually intended to compete with the Enviro 400 City and be sold outside of London! But I guess the design was just too impractical in comparison.
It would be pretty interesting seeing this in other liveries though. The closest thing we have to imagine is the green one that went to Yorkshire for a trial (didn't didn't even go on revenue service)
The Enviro 400 City has replaced a number of the New Routemaster buses on several routes.
I don't think it was the design, it was the price and the engine. Both were inferior to the cheaper alternatives by both ADL and Wright. If the cost was reasonable, I think it would have seen more adoption.
Never knew there were only 6 in service. This bus is really common for me as it’s on the H12, 340 and some school routes like 696, 697 and 698 but I’m pretty sure just 698.
Same, I see pictures of them floating around from time to time and didn't realise there were only 6
Shame, if they weren't so expensive, maybe they'd have been more popular. I mean, everyone's moving on to EV's now anyway, maybe they should have been designed for that instead.
When you order a routemaster from wish.
🤣🤣🤣
@@glitchFan2428 Or temu
More like eBay
Or even Temu 🙂
possibly amazon? xD
10% Gemini 3
90%routemaster
Yes. It has that sound of a g3 when you go to the back
Very nice buses and so quiet inside. A far cry from the old rundown buses we have and only run when they feel like it.
We have indeed come a long way. Older buses are still nice due to the nostalgia factor but most of us wouldn't want to use them every day to commute
Thank you for a really useful historical document. Thanks for expanding upon the history of "Son of Routemaster - sometimes there are evolutionary dead-ends. The front still looks stylish; Upstarirs rear probably more sensible outside of the high-capacity needs of London routes. The air vents in the ceiling at 2:35 would indicate that air-con *is* installed??
I do agree the front looks stylish. The bus does not have air con though, not sure what the vents are for
It should although one of the design faults that were noted was the aircon often not working.
It's like a routemaster but smaller and has a familiar hybrid engine noise, reminding of our B5LHs.
It is actually a B5LH chassis and engine / gearbox
@@glitchFan2428 There's also no visible Volvo badging apart from the steering wheel.
I've ridden on both, and the Routemaster feels more stylish with its rear staircase and bordeaux coloured interior.
I think they have not been exported because there is no provision for airconditioning - both HK and SG would require aircon.
I'm impressed with this comparison - i didn't think anyone else would notice, much less make a video about it. Great job.
If I'm not wrong it was not meant for export especially to the Asian market. If I remember correctly, local operators could order it but no one took up the offer. I'm glad you enjoyed the video
@@glitchFan2428the new London mayor stopped these buses from being made and exported to Asian markets. When sadiq Khan took over as new mayor of London. The new route master ones stopped being made. If im correct it was to save money for tfl for their budget. And also the Boris bus was last in Singapore because boris Johnson was last mayor of London in 2014 and 2016. Ever since New mayor of London took over. These buses are not being made. But they won't export to SG or Other asian countries. Because these buses the New route masters and SRM are a symbol of London. So I do belive London is it's rightfull home. Also it also attracts tourists. So my advice to Singaporeans will be to visit London for the 3 door Boris buses. Since I know your channel is a mix of Singapore and UK buses content. And the buses can only be enjoyed in London.
Go-Ahead London have these but not a lot though, but never knew RATP had these buses until now.
According to bustimes it seems like there's only 6 and all are with RATP. 2 more similar models were previously in service but have been withdrawn, maybe those are the one's you are referring to?
@@glitchFan2428GAL had 2 of these, in the Volvo B5LHC chassis, but have since been withdrawn
I never knew go-ahead had them!
Wait. If RATP are running transport in London, how come TFL aren't running transport in Paris?
@@GEORGEonbuses2024i remember being so baffed when i heard the engine. Thinking wow this looks like an RM but sounds like a whv/mhv.. and then go-ahead have the ehv also but those are over in east, well they were but now they are in my local area at NP garage on the 476s or 91s
really easy to tell actually, even from the right side and front. On the right side, NRMs should not have windows and seats stretching all the way back (if it did it's a B5LH (SRM)); on the front, just look at the licence, NRMs all have LTZ xxxx regs.
That's true, although far away from the front it's not super obvious at first. For me at least, until the reg becomes visible
Go-ahead used to have couple running on the 37 between Peckham and Putney heath
Ooh I think those have since been withdrawn? Not sure
I saw one on the 125 once
Same here
When i used to drive the 14, i used to see these on the 37 from time to time. Havent seen em since but now that i do rail replacement, i see them on the 340 alot, dont think anyone else has them.
Oh yh that pinner bus had them, hard to believe that was a metroline bus tho because i cant imagine the inner moquette and all that
They are quite a strange curiosity
@9:57, I don't like that there is no back view. No looking over your shoulder to see if the bus you really want is coming up behind.
@@eattherich9215 yeah unless you're upstairs
@@glitchFan2428: these old bones don't do stairs all that well now.
Lol, you should see the new EV's, they've all done away with the back window on the bottom deck now.
Has the distinctive WrightBus rattle 🤪
Kind of like those ADL assembled in China 😅
Them busses look like they've seen some crap that even a lifetime of therapy would never cure. LOL
It has seen things!!
Woah, you went to Harrow! My territory.
I made a longer video on the bus station itself, will post that sometime in the future
@@glitchFan2428 oh cool! Ill be on the lookout!
My late father worked in College Road Harrow for many years. Maybe I should pay a visit there after a gap of several decades? That was long before the St Ann Centre was built
I expect the only thing the Enviro 400s beat this bus on is price. This probably is more expensive, but like cars, you get what you pay for. This bus looks more solid and better built. It also has proper old style Routemaster seats with a full hand rail. I think the loss of the second staircase and third door is a shame. Very handy features on busy peak period routes, when you need to get off but the first staircase and centre doors are obstructed. I've missed a stop a few times on standard layout buses due to this problem, the driver moving off while you're stuck on the stairs. The extra staircase and exit could be a life-saver in an accident or fire. The LT (AKA New Routemaster) should have become the standard bus across all London as the original Routemaster was, but Mayor Khan couldn't stomach it's link to Boris Johnson and cancelled further orders. No doubt if it were a Livingstone project Khan would have continued the orders for more LTs. I'm still waiting for a Khan success...
That's all fair points .. and yes there is an undeniable connection to Boris 😅
How to find a fake routermaster bus
- always check the side of the left . If there is no third door
Or just check the registration plate and check if it starts with LTZ or not.
That's true
In some ways you might wonder why more were not built or ordered. The newer version of the Routemaster hasn’t had a decline in use but been reworked as things go. I think some operators prefer to have a choice of chassis or bodywork supplier and maybe this was the one that didn’t have the edge. The Enviro 400 City seems a good option and many have been sought so maybe that speaks volumes. Wrightbus vehicles are around London,maybe the engine and mechanics are not so great and that’s possibly why it’s had a limited success or impact.
Perhaps if Wrightbus had offered this bodywork with the enviro chassis, things might have been different 🤔
It's built on the G3 chassis iirc. The bus was just more expensive, not good value for money.
It's little bit more comfortable than the Olympic one.
Thicc seats
@@glitchFan2428 It's good beginning of improvement. In the next 10 years vibrations could be reduced. Step by step, just wait for it. 😉
I’ve heard of these and ridden on both this and the normal Borismaster think of the SRM as a Borismaster with the Gemini 3 like rear with the same Volvo B5LH chassis, sadly I don’t think these would have caught on as it was easier and a lot cheaper to just order the Gemini 3.
Yeah it seems like purely a vanity project eh, the front does look good though
I like this as it is a conventional bus with 'nods' to the routemaster, rather than requiring a different pattern of operation
I agree, although one may argue that the whole point of a "routemaster" is the door at the rear for a complete look
The Routemaster had plenty of criticism whan it came out. The RT was regarded as the best looking bus of all time - the second post war variant with roof box and illuminated lower deck route number being the ultimate in bus perfection.
@@physiocrat7143 there's still a significant group of people who prefer the RT over the RM. But to the public any classic red double decker is a RM 🤔🤔
As an ex London Transport bus driver, having driven both the RT and RM my ultimate bus would be an RM with the RT gearbox.
@@fsr170409
In my experience as a passenger on the 73, the Routemasters had a habit of breaking down at the Barbauld Road stop in Albion Road. Revving the engine hard had no effect and everyone had to get off.
Bring back Alderdam bus works and Park royal assembly there was somewhere out west of London and cannot remember its name. Proper Route Masters
I remember watching the video of how a routemaster was refurbished, amazing 🤩
@kmitchell1150 Chiswick Works, maybe?
Remember that Aldenham only became the bus overhaul centre when the northern extension of the Tube was canned post-WW2.
Some new route masters are on superloop express I have also been on they are similar to old routemasters
Yes the SL3 has new routemasters
People liked the route master because could step on or off whenever speed permitted. Heath and safety now insist that whenever a bus coach train tram etc is moving the doors are closed so you can't just hop or off in slowi moving traffic
And with the redundancy of the third door they removed the conductors if I remember correctly
Thats a good bus ride
Ive seen this many times before on 698
It’s rarer than a Mercedes O295K in London as only 9 were built and all are operated by London United.
I think only 6 are left ?
The 142's have been running this type of bus for some time through Edgware it only recently the 340's have gone over.
I see
The buses in UK are so identical to HK where I live
Some of them are the same make and model
Hardly, as yours are predominately three-axled !!
@@brianbrotherston5940 bro I mean they use the same design, for example Volvo B8L, they look the same in HK and the UK, just the difference of tires
And B9TL gemini 2, the HK buses are also same in singapore@@eliot6836
the SRMs look even weirder but a bit less weird vs the Boris master having the front looks alright the backside looks wrong almsot as if an actual B5LH bus of some form was let loose at the wrightbus factory with a boris master witch led to the weirder SRM being bread to say i aint from london and ive seen the boris masters never been keen on them not even the model versions witch i have 3 of
The back of it looks so weird 😅
The blue pole reminded me of SG B5LH interior pole
Indeed hahah
I remember when these used to run on 37 temporarily
@@SE-_Ambassador. Ah, can't relate as I'm from Manchester 😅
Having recently been back in London, I hate the straight staircases in the buses. They are very un ergonomic and a nightmare to negotiate. By contrast the rear staircase in the NBL’s is way better in terms of design. Just a shame that the buses are used as intended.
I actually like the rear staircase too, so easy to go down the stairs and the view as well 😁
These have always been with rapt, used on x140 before and now h12 and 340
I see
I remember these on the 183😂(only rideable when it was cold)
I presume back then it didn't have opening windows 😅
In my opinion, still awful buses, this bus and the boris bus is a sauna without its Air con 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Haha air con is incredibly rare on UK buses from what I've seen. Ironically the only air con bus I remember being on was a First Vantage B5LH - the same chassis as these SRMs
when you order a routemaster from temu
Ohnooo
@@glitchFan2428 trendy shopping website for 2023 (and 2024)
@fernlew8828 💀💀💀 so so true
Best comment in this entire video
These are on H12 as Well😊
@@AlwaysBusIt yes I saw one during the journey, was contemplating getting off to film more but decided to stay on till the end to film some BZLs
@@glitchFan2428 oh ok
If it doesn't have a rear door platform, can you really call it a RouteMaster?
@@lostcarpark exactly why the tongue in cheek "fake" designation was used 😅
Why can’t it be? It’s just a Routemaster with less features isn’t it? A bit like the old Bristol Rell single deckers. Some had twin doors l, some didn’t. Some had shallow windscreens, some had bigger ones, etc.
@@Wishful-Thinking I personally feel like the distinguishing feature of a routemaster is the open rear platform (despite front entrance units existing) so it's just strange calling one without a rear platform a routemaster. However one can very easily argue that the new routemaster is its own identity and therefore sharing the same front will class it as a routemaster. It's all down to the individual at this point. Thanks for watching 😁
@@Wishful-Thinking For me the distinguishing features of a Routemaster are the driver's cab, the rear entry platform, the stairs at the back, and of course being made by AEC. As AEC ceased to exist in 1979, I'm going to have to concede that if there are going to be new Routemasters, they're going to be made by other companies. And as most buses these are driver only operated, the driver's cab isn't coming back. So the only things remaining are the platform and the rear stairs. So if there are going to be new routemasters, they need to have at least the rear platform, and probably the rear stairs. Otherwise it's just a bus.
For me, the new Routemaster is the same as the new Mini, new VW Beetle, new Fiat 500 etc.
The new vehicle is 90% different, but the manufacturers, cynically, try to benefit from the nostalgia and goodwill that was created by the original product’s name.
TFL just bought a routemaster from temu for £1
Pretty much 😅😅
1:53 you leaked my local bus route.. which is the Gemini 2 infront
so?
These were on 697 a long time ago
Ooo too long ago for me to remember
@@glitchFan2428 and it’s my school bus. I would have recorded it but I didn’t want to get bullied 😞
@@A-Brblx fair enough, I know exactly how you feel
Lol this is my local route so I see it very often 😂
I’ve heard of it it used to run the route 37 but stopped
Ohhhh I didn't know that
Looking at that video I'd say half of London traffic and pollution problem is too many busses
Suppose it's the lesser of two evils since the passengers on the buses would otherwise be in cars
To replace the NRM New Route master Wright-bus made the SRM the son of the master.
So what are you looking at the son of route master..
Yes I had to abbreviated to SRM in the video
I identify buses in Singapore by looking at the back.
Fair enough, they have distinctive rears
I have been on the old routemaster in 70,d
wow toilet transit working with RATP.
Oh noooo
@@SG3086X it's an inside joke I believe
@@Emmanuel_Ang the toilets under tower transit is clean but not the rims of the bus.
Looks as if it is more of a replica of Bristol rather than Routemaster.
@@CharlieFlemingOriginal 😅😅
Ahhh, so that's what route they're on
You can keep track of their whereabouts using the bustimes website
@glitchFan2428 I must take a trip to London again soon, and concentrate on buses, instead of trains lol. Thanks for info. Bus times is a useful tool
ive seen one on route 79 once
Nice
NB4L Nice
I will never calls these routemasters.
The SRMs or NRMs? 🤔
Routemaster from temu ☠️
Yes 🤣
Kinda much like volvo b8l expect for curve window at the back and seat cushion
Very familiar auras
Has anyone ever developed a PSV that DOESN'T rattle?
I can't think of any off the top of my head
Look alright to me
There’s no such thing as a “Fake Routemaster”!!! It is 2024
It’s just like calling a Tesla model S a fake Ford Model T
The company built the Routemaster buses went out of business waaaay back in 1979.
@@Dokus360 it's a tongue in cheek figure of speech....
It has USB’S
I believe most new buses do nowadays
blue poles
Those are Wrightbus SRMs
Yes, as stated at 0:37
Come on don't be lazy to watch the first 30 seconds.
I rode it
Ik these buses
If you're going to redesign a bus why not put a full width rear window. Looks stupid as it is .👎
It looks like an afterthought at the rear 😅
@@glitchFan2428Yet an Industrial-Design firm would have been commissioned to design these buses, if this terrible design is what a team of university educated Industrial-Designers can come up with then standards have dropped.
That Son of a Bristol!
Walmart New Routemaster
The rear is so ugly!!
It does seem like an afterthought
ENVIRO 400 CITY
Rubbish bus very trash. And ugly bus. One of these was on X140 before the bus became SL9. How ever route SL9 did trial this bus on route SL9 for the SRM wright bus. The New Bus for London has 3 doors. This one only haves 2 doors. They are the same from the front of the buses but different at the back. X140 or now SL9 will not be doing this bus anymore. Most likely these buses will be replaced with the new enviro 400 city mmcs. I be very surprised if a SRM a metroline one appears on the Uxbridge routes like routes U4. This will be something to keep an eye out on the SRM and new route master buses. For the Uxbridge buses. As for the Harrow buses London sovereign for the SRMs. Also the popular bus is the N9. Because it's route masters are very real and not fake. As for this route master SRM is completely fake and trash.
I find the front nice though, it's the back that looks so... Strange
Vanity project carved out of arguably another vanity project
That's definitely one way of looking at it
New Routemaster Fan Is The Worst Bus Enthusiast
imposter bus
are announcements standard on all buses in london?
Yes they are
2 door boris
Essentially yeah
And the point of this video was.....
You're not the intended audience.
NOOOOOOOOO THIS ROUTEMASTER DOSENT HAVE 3 DOORS ITS LOOKS SO UGLY WTF IS THIS???
@@æ.sl33py "son of routemaster" 😅
@@glitchFan2428Son of imposter more like
God its so cursed
@@ax_olotl25 very 😅😅
The back is so stupidly designed, if you're going to have a regular bus then at least commit to it.
It definitely looks a bit off 😅
I don't like them
Fair enough