Stellantis finally adopting Tesla NACS chargers, but won't join Tesla network
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2024
- Stellantis finally adopting Tesla NACS chargers, but won't join Tesla network
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It is not an issue of ego. The NACS standard is important but the overall experience can be better. They can always join the Tesla network later.
And while they wait, I’m not buying a Stellantis EV.
Not an issue , Stelantis are big in Europe having got the car of the year over there for 2023. Tesla’s charger cover in Europe is very little wrt competitors much wider site spread and availability. So no issues , Electrify America and charge point have massive footprints in America so not an issue . They can join Tesla any time they need the cash
Sure They Have Giant Massive Charging Issues Too!
When all is said and done, it's just a damn plug, what is everybody getting so excited about? It's the underlying communication protocols that really matter.
They are being bundled.
From experience I can tell you the CCS plug is horrible to use compared to NACS.
Did not understand your point about chargers for specific brand of car. You mean you have some insider info that Teslas will not work with Stelantis chargers ?
Not outside North America they aren't. NACS is anti-competitive. That is why we are using CCS in Europe. Any supplier can set up with CCS and compete on price just as with petrol. Furthermore contactless payment must be offered. Contactless is the default method of making pretty much all small payments everywhere. There is no need for silly apps of accounts that force you to get your charging from one or maybe a few different suppliers. NACS as a national standard would be illegal in most countries. In Europe even Tesla has to use CCS. Another advantage of CCS is that it allows Level 2 charging at up to 22kw using a three phase supply. Many Europeans have a 3 phase supply so they can charge very quickly at home.
You Must live in Fontana....
@rogerphelps9939 : NACS (J3400) is pretty close, allowing L2 charging at up to 19kW.
@@AI_effect North American does not have a standard because of stupid Tesla. They could have just used the CCS2 standard which was available since 2012. The CCS1 was available for many many years before that
Anti-competitive? A standardized connection in the EU is not anti competitive but one in NA is? Still the fool I see.
It is open source. How can it be anticompetitive. As you can see stallantis is using it without doing any deal with tesla. Thr only reason why tesla charging format is so dominant in USA is because of the failure of others... not because of tesla
Adopting the hardware standards makes sense. Bur you got the BP - Toyota analogy backwards. Why would Stellantis have to license permission for the customers to use the charging network, a more accurate analogy would have been, BP saying 'everyone except toyota' can fill up here', so Toyota drivers go to Mobil or Shell or Caltex.
Stellantis is leaving the choice up to the owners, not locking them in to only Tesla charging stations, so owners can go to any station they want, and Tesla looses sales by turning them away.
Is it possible to have the cables and connectors but not be a part of the network ?? Does this work ??
Yes because every charging station in the US will be NACS. That just means you can’t charge at a Tesla charger but you can everywhere else. So basically nothing changes for them. The only reason they are adapting is because they have no choice now that everyone in the US has agreed to adapt. Im sure hey will come around eventually and make an agreement.
what is the charging standard for AUS / NZ ?
Morning mate
Open up NACS Chargers... NOT exactly.Tesla only allowed 10% of the chargers... so at a SC location that has 50 chargers, that only means 5 that are open to "other" brands of vehicles... so not really opened up lol
10%?? Where are you getting that from? Not all Superchargers are equipped to take non-Teslas without upgrading. All the newer ones will - over 50%.
@kupua where did you get that information from?
Just look at Europe, almost all Supercharger sites are open for all, and I have neven seen a site that had some plugs „Tesla only“
Are you confusing the number Tesla plans to have open by some date with the total number Tesla plans to open?
NACS is a standard not a company. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about do you?
The biggest appeal of buying a Tesla over other BEVs was the charging infrastructure. So while Tesla makes more money having an open network, they lose their advantage of having the best network. In the short term it'll be less beneficial for Tesla, but in the long run it will be more beneficial for them
Apple does it do we are forced to by new charging cables. Yes one standard for each.
Sam usb-c is very far from being universal, apart from the connector itself each cable has different parameters determined by the chip in the connector that set’s the cable limits, the problem is that those imitations are not classified and declared properly on the cable itself. The results is that you never know what charging power your charger/cable set will have.
It's universal ya clown. Tesla superchargers V1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc all have vastly different internals, speeds, tech, etc but we consider it just nacs standard and it works for all tesla.
We have standard gas pumps What is the problem With these car manufacturers
Why on earth would they want to make themselves the captive of a competitor ? It's already anti-competitive (though I recognise why it happened and don't blame Tesla) that Tesla has vertically integrated into charger infrastructure.
Captive?
Tesla no longer owns NACS. The standard is overseen by SAE. If Tesla tries to restrict other automakers from using their chargers, they will lose $Billions in government subsidies that they got for opening them up.
Captive? So you are one of those people that think that because you have access to the Supercharger network, then you're locked out of the rest and must ONLY use Superchargers? Interesting ignorance.
*"Captive"* may not be the correct word to use.
I like the idea of one universal plug.
But to me, all of those who are using the Tesla plug for the *"standard"* , are all committing suicide. 🤪🔫
Tesla is getting Royalties from the other car companies that use their chargers.
Even though Tesla charges non Tesla people for using their chargers just a touch more than they do their own brands, Tesla still charges less than the competition at their Charge uP Stations.
Plus Tesla gets those "Emission credits" from other Auto companies.
Tesla leaves the other EV makers in a tail spin ♻️
L😂L
@@icosthop9998 Official announcements and news articles regarding the Supercharger network expansion don't mention any royalty agreements between Tesla and other car companies.
It's likely that non-Tesla EVs will simply pay a higher charging fee compared to Tesla vehicles, similar to existing pilot programs in some regions.
The metaphor with BP selling fuel only to Toyota subcommunicates Toyota stuck in ICE age 😊
So Stellantis EVs with NACS connectors cannot charge on a Tesla Supercharger? The Tesla supercharger network is by far the most reliable.
It's ok, nobody wants their cars anyway. When BYD arrives in the US the weakest link legacy autos will be the first to go (cough) Stellantis (cough). In the future there will only be Tesla, BYD, and maybe Ford.
Any word on when BYD will be entering the NA market?
Lou7139
Don't hold your breath, BYD won't hit the American markets (USA, Canada or maybe even Mexico) before twenty-thirty.
They just added to the places Tesla cars aren't allowed to drive and park, why would they do that?
@@justinr9753 Are you talking about in China ?
👍👍
The difference between BP analogy is that Tesla also sells cars and have only good N. America charging infrastructure, thereby they are helping the competition sell cars.
Depends upon one's mindset.
To me, it helps Tesla to sell more of their own EVs.
@@icosthop9998 How so?
@@icosthop9998 How so??
Ford is not going to use the Tesla app, they are using their own. I heard this in the last week and when they said they were going to use Tesla's chargers. I don't think any company is going to use Tesla, they will just use their car company app. I am not sure about who is and how is not.
Ford is using their app for sure!!!!!
Still paying royalties
Tesla will be making money from Ford one way or another.
Non-Tesla EVs are charged just a little more than Tesla EVs.
But it is still cheaper than what other Charge uP Stations , charges the Customers.
NACS is worthless as home charging in Europe. We have 3 phases and lower amp electric systems.
That's why it's called *North American Charging Standard.*
@@Mrbfgray L😂L + 🤣🤣🤣
You gotta go easy on people , some people misses the small details here and there. 😅
NACS design ethos for 3 phase would only need one more pin. The plug then accepts AC or DC in Europe.
@@Mrbfgray This one isn't terribly bright.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom Seemed lk superiority signaling to me.
I'm sure they'll change their mind when customers start commenting on this
Tesla NAC is the best charger and was a smart business decision to make it the standard. Its inevitable that Stellantis will cut a deal with Tesla sooner than later.
I do not understand how Stellantis can use Tesla chargers without making a deal ❔️
nacs doesnt handle 3 phase high power which basically makes dead on arrivalnoutside of usa . the ccs might be ugly, but its very well thought out.
Tesla doesn't own NACS anymore. They gave up the IP rights to get other automakers to use the standard in order to access billions in US Federal charger subsidies, including for existing chargers. The standard is now overseen by SAE. J3400 is the official name. If Tesla tries to restrict Stellantis from using their chargers, it could impact their subsidy haul.
The connector hardware standard is not the charging network..
@@alexkruse312exactly
@@alexkruse312 L😂L True
Devil is in the details.
"Gave up" IP rights: It's not entirely accurate to say Tesla "gave up" IP rights. They made the specifications publicly available under a royalty-free licensing model, meaning anyone can use them without paying royalties. This doesn't mean they relinquished all intellectual property associated with the technology.
Billions in subsidies for existing chargers: While federal charger subsidies exist, it's unclear if they specifically target billions towards existing chargers or prioritize new infrastructure development.
@@alexkruse312 Let me try to break it down for you: Tesla was poised to get Billions in Federal charger subsidies, but they needed their chargers to be open to multiple automakers to qualify. In order for that to happen, they needed people to switch to NACS. To get people to switch to NACS, they gave up their IP rights and SAE took over. The entire point of this is to allow other companies to access to the chargers so Tesla can access the government money. If Tesla restricts access, there goes the government money.
Stellantis doesn't make reliable cars or honour their warranty anyway, so it's a moot point.
My 2013 Fiat 500e has been 100% reliable ever since I bought it. Same goes for nearly every other 1st-gen 500e, as long as the 12V battery is replaced before it dies, same as a gas car.
The Stellantis NACS decision is not bizarre. All that has happened here is that Stellantis hasn't yet done a deal with Tesla over the latter's supercharger network. It might in future but it hasn't for the time being. Big deal!
It isn't your job, Viking, to run about trying to enforce (what you believe are) unspoken conditions that attach to the use of the NACS plug. More importantly, you don't seem to fully grasp what technical standardisation is. It is the opposite to what you are suggesting. Tesla wins the standards war, bloodlessly, by farming out NACS (as a listed standard in progress) to an automotive standards body. Winning that kind of pre-eminence doesn't come without paying a price: i) Tesla gives up the right to demand royalties for NACS standard parts (the SAE might make room for a small royalty for compliant parts - that goes to the SAE not Tesla but I have not heard about anything like that in this case) and ii) Tesla loses the right to dictate any terms that attach to NACS usage - like these undeclared terms that you pointlessly create vlogs about in the hope to enfore.
Grow up Viking and move on.
Yeah, take 1 standard, . . . . like the USA is desperately holding on the measurement with their feet and thumbs, or 110volts, or footpounds, or inches, or fahrenheit.
Where the civilized world has metrics, and 240volt.
At least they are not THAT stupid, to ride on the wrong side of the road, like the English or Australians.
Stellantis biggest market is the EU, not North America.
Ya, but all of Earth still uses inches for car wheel diameter, & for all motorcycle & bicycle chain sizes. As for 110volts, even at the bare minimum 15A circuit, any EV will fully recharge the average US daily drive overnight from any standard outlet.
Bye Felicia!
I wouldn’t buy an EV without NACS. Having said that I wouldn’t buy a Stellantis product even with NACS.
A lot of people are with you, it's going to be a difficult year for CCS equipped EVs. Even if you need a car it's best to lease one until the NACS ones are available then buy. All EVs here should be NACS by the time the lease is up. Also, a lease is more likely to get some benefit from the IRA credits with only a few cars qualifying when purchased.
The Three Musketeers all for one and one for all 👍
Stellantis is betting on their Ionna charging network to beat Tesla superchargers. I dont na ...
A collection of companies that lose money on EV sales will struggle to create and maintain a charging network.
@@danharold3087 lol you have no idea
As a Tesla NACS user I find the CCS and CCS2 charger systems to be laughable not only are they massive, they have the latches external to the plug which makes them very fragile when dropped, the cables are enormous. I think they must have been designed by a committee rather than and competent engineering team.
CCS2 doesn't have an external latch, only CCS1 does
Tavares is not that stupid. Back in 2018 (when life was so much better) I suggested that Tesla had a HUGE advantage in the Supercharger network if they could monetize it effectively. And to do that, they needed to get to a "universal" charger and connector. They've done that. In five years, or maybe ten (or NEVER if Trump gets elected), the NACS standard will be the ONLY option for charging and Tesla Superchargers will be legally required to serve ALL vehicles. Musk knows this, Tesla deliberately held off allowing anyone else in until the EU quite justifiably forced his hand. Brilliant move by Tesla. the same has kinda sorta happened in the US, and eventually either legislation or economics will force it in the US. Even 5% - 10% of the market is worth going after as the market becomes mature.
So, similar to my 2018 prediction - in no more than ten years Stellantis vehicles in North America will be able to charge at Tesla and Stellantis will probably not have paid more than a token amount for the privilege.
And also the charging protocols will become much, much more "universal" because conversions and D-I-Y vehicles will need to charge and WILL win lawsuits about access to infrastructure (maybe not in Texas, cuz "FREEDUMB", but in civilized places).
So ... Musk and Tesla win (again). Now if only he would get out of social media and politics and go back to making the world a better place instead of a worse one.
It is arguable that by moving right he will sell more tesla to the "own the libs" crowd. I can't make a final determination on this.
Is it an idea to ask Stellantis why they would refrain from Tesla charging at this point in time?😉
Right but who would you ask. With other auto makers the CEO is kind of out there and we all know their names but with Stellantis they are such a big conglomerate that we have no idea of their inner workings.
Seems right in keeping for Stellantis. They are the conglomeration of badly managed car companies rolled into one. Why make an intelligent decision when you can keep making bad ones? This company will eventually die. They're currently struggling in the U.S. to sell Ram and Jeep vehicles, which was their only two profitable divisions.
Stellantis is committing corporate suicide.
I hate Stellantis because I don’t know how to spell it
@@Michael-yi4mc I remember Vinnie the cat saying "But I can't say Sylvester, George."
@Michael-yi4mc with my word check, all I need to remember is the first 5 letters, and it fills in the rest.
(I do not really care for that company)
I like the idea of one universal plug.
But to me, all of those who are using the Tesla plug for the *"standard"* , are all committing suicide. 🤪🔫
Agree. Just an arrogant french CEO making a stupid decision. So stupid that i would fire him.
.
I like the idea of one universal plug.
But to me, all of those who are using the Tesla plug for the *"standard"* , are all committing suicide. 🤪🔫
Tesla is getting Royalties from the other car companies that use their chargers.
Even though Tesla charges non Tesla people for using their chargers just a touch more than they do their own brands, Tesla still charges less than the competition at their Charge uP Stations.
Plus Tesla gets LoveLy "Emission credits" from other Auto companies.
Tesla leaves the other EV makers in a tail spin ♻️
L😂L
Yes, right now, it seems weird. Dodge is very aware of the anti monopoly laws. They, like I, were alive when AT&T was broken up. Tesla chargers look to face this same sort of fate in a decade or so . Looks like I failed to make my point completely. Who cares about who made the old dial-up phones. AT&T OWNED THE ENTIRE PHONE SERVICE SYSTEM. A plug is a different name for conector..... IT'S THE FN CHARGING STATION . This one pretty much no one is building, but Tesla.
Specific charging stations don’t make sense. Charging stations at Walmart, the school, the factory, and ofcourse at home, and any normal parking space, will be normal.
There is no monopoly.
Tesla doesn't own NACS anymore, SAE does. They had to open up their chargers and relinquish IP to get access to subsidies. As Tesla doesn't own it, other companies can make their own chargers using the SAE J3400 standard.
@@larryevans6739 good point. But since other companies can’t seem to even make their own chargers work, competition in this segment is not much of a threat.
@TheEvilmooseofdoom like is happening with charging stations. There were hundreds of very small phone companies very local seldom covering more than a small town or city. HOWEVER, the main lines were 80 plus owned by AT&T alone. I am not a lawyer, but these numbers are extremely close to current charging stations.
It’s Stellantis. They make pretty good cars in Europe but what they offer in North America is not comparable. No one is going daft to buy any Stellantis products. Will it still be around in North America in a few years? I doubt it.
Good job, Tesla! If only manufacturers of portable powered tools would follow suit….
So it will look right, fits right but won't work with a Supercharger. That's 🦴 🗣️
Damn, that company needs to go bankrupt or fire their dumb CEO.
Who cares..! Who CARES..!! Stellantis, is ..ALREADY, ..DOOMED, ..ABSOLUTELY, ..DOOMED, to go the same way, as the DoDo birds..!! ABSOLUTELY, ..WHO CARES, ABOUT ..ANYTHING, that Stellantis, has to say…..!!!
Sorry but tesla giving away the chargers to others , is not great for people that got a tesla, only for tesla, it stops others bothering to get of there arsehole and do there own .
Sorry Sam but you are going to lose your RUclips income as EV's are going to crash and burn (pun intended)
Oh you fools have been saying that for a decade plus and wrong the whole time. I guess that's now a life style for you.