when green screen actually makes the movie better
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- #sincity #videoessay
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Turns out there's so much to say about the production of Sin City that I couldn't fit it all into one video. Last time I talked about how director Robert Rodriguez convinced Sin City creator Frank Miller to co-direct the movie with him, and what the impact of that collaboration was on Sin City's dedication to capturing the art and style of the originals graphic novels. This time I'll be looking at how Rodriguez utilized green screen and other digital technology to make that classic Sin City art possible.
Written & edited by Danny Boyd
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One thing I wasn’t able to mention in the video that’s really neat:about the effects work on Sin City: each of the three main stories that make up the movie were done by a different VFX house. And so each has a slightly different visual identity, the final story (with Bruce Willis) being the most stark for example, with some of the most extreme shots of chiaroscuro.
-Danny
That's a funky fresh choice of them
"when the green screen actually makes the movie better?!?" every movie that isn't a drama piece set in the modern day is going to use some green screen. i guarantee you wouldn't want to watch a movie without green screen. typical movie reviewing knowing literally nothing about movies
@@ccshumshum8104 Typical internet smarty-pants contrarian reading a sentence and immediately no longer paying attention. If you had actually listened to the presentation, you would understand that it's talking about how although usually the difficulties of using green screen can affect a scene negatively, in this case the unique visual style of the film meant that they paradoxically made the scenes better.
@@Elriuhilu actual braindead rtard. if i was the contrarian it would be the generally agreed upon norm that green screens are terrible and they would be rarely used, which isn't the case.
vfx isn't a bad thing, which is why it gets used. this is a video thats made because a "kino"phile realised he couldn't keep convincing himself that every instance of green screen is terrible like the internet film circlejerkers keep telling him
Is that partially why the bar scene was shot more on set? Or was that due to how many characters appeared in the scene at one time? Just wondering if this was a creative or logistical choice?
It's incredible how NORMAL the overlydramatic and processed the lighting shadows and colors are, and it doesn't bother the audience. You perfectly described that and I love the behind-the-scenes clips to show the difference. Fantastic videos!
The facial prosthetics were far more distracting than the wild lighting, for me at least.
"and it doesn't bother the audience"
It made the movie completely unwatchable for me. I'm not just saying that to be contrarian, it's literally a sensory overload of contrast and sharp detail that makes me nausious.
@vinny142 I can see that the comic would probably bother you to. It's kinda hard on the eyes at points
Probably because the whole movie looks like that. It's not "jarring" and "taking you out of the movie" if it's ALL like that!
@@vinny142Do yourself a favor and don't watch the French movie Renaissance.
You really are filling that large hole left by Every frame a painting, and more, with your own take with these video essays... and that was a fantastic channel.
Simply really great content.
God I miss Every frame a painting
Wait what happened to every frame a painting?
Right!
@@ColAlbSmi They basicly couldnt justify the amount of work they put into their videos for themselfes and thus ended it.
@Joyexer Apparently, they've just worked with David Fincher on a Netflix docuseries about the history of cinema, directing a few episodes themselves.
I haven't seen it yet, so I can't say much about it, but it seems like they've been busy themselves with other projects.
While they have said that the channel has run its course and is done, closing that chapter and embarking on new adventures and projects, I wonder of they'll ever return to YT one day...
Great video essay. Who knew green screen tech had come so far! 🤯
when I first watched this movie I had no idea how they pulled off these super dramatic shots with so much BG separation, but now it makes perfect sense. Super creative, thanks for sharing.
Didn't expect to see you here, glad to see you can appreciate a multitude of things (what your channel creates and a greenscreen critique)
The fact this looks better than some block busters is crazy
Hello there :) And I know, for real. It all blends to seamlessly, but you really have to see it to believe it.
Thanks so much for watching. I really appreciate the support.
-Danny
who cares.. your life has to be really dull to watch dumb movies like this and care to this extent
Hey! Sent you a message on instagram.@@CinemaStix
Sin City does not get enough credit as one of the best comic adaptions ever put to film. Everyone discusses Marvel and DC but this movie was special. I think they tried to recapture the style in the Spirit and then the sequel but it never got close.
It certainly is closest to original source. Nothing is closer, not even the Walking Dead.
Its very good, but for me, "Watchmen" is #1 😁
@@friedrichjunzt Watchmen might have been faithful visually, but it deeply misunderstood the story and themes of the comic. Sin City is the one that got both right.
I can't stand any of the superhero Hollywood movies...
I love (Ba)Sin City. What a classic
Watchmen was very good... especially the full version that included Tales of the Black Freighter but no giant space squid loses points for me.@@friedrichjunzt
This is the exact opposite of Ian Mckellan crying during production of the hobbits because he was acting on set alone on a green screen. That warmth is still felt despite how artificial everything looks.
I think the difference is that in The Hobbit the characters interact in a more natural, realistic, empathetic way, which is much more convincingly performed by the actors when they can put themselves into the emotional vibe of the scene. It's much easier to get into a specific emotional mindset if you are surrounded by things that help make it feel more real, like realistic set dressing and other actors who reinforce your emotional vibes with their own. In Sin City all of the characters are super intense and hyper-real to the point that they aren't normal people with naturalistic reactions, but living embodiments of character traits with appropriately styled behaviours. They don't have "real" emotions, only the ones that advertise their listed traits, so the emotional vibe the actors need to get into is not a true reflection of reality and is thus not as affected by the lack of grounding that real sets and scene partners provide.
@@ElriuhiluI think the big difference if that the actors on LotR were together so much and formed such a bond that the Fellowship actors all got tattoos afterwards. It was a 2 year shoot bonding together.
The Hobbit was not.
To follow up on this, just watching some of the behind the scenes shots, it feels much more like stage acting, rather than film acting, and then switching to film acting for the closeups. I refer to stage acting as a sort of "blown up" more exaggerated style that can be seen from the back row of a theater. In this case, it lends itself super well to a comic book style which is already over the top and I'm sure the directors on this leaned heavily into that.
What sucked for Ian McKellan (and I get it, even though I'm well versed in black box theater, improv, etc) is that you're trying to create much more nuance and honest and authentic characters and you have nothing tangible to react to.
At least with the way Sin City was filmed, you could be on the set of "Our Town" and get those kinds of performances
Edit: 7:42 the mention of playhouse theatre, that makes perfect sense@@Elriuhilu
He wasn't "crying" and he did have a point especially about the hobbit. He had already done LOTR at that point and had already seen how with love and care a film adaptation of a beloved written work could be Elevated by green screen and CGI... He knew that the Hobbit was a slap job soulless cash grab in comparison to the original work and be knew the money was there, the talent was there, the effort and focus could be there... But the studios rushed it out as quickly as possible. There's NOTHING soulless or cash grabby about sin city and I don't really see how that movie turning out as good as it does correlates to how Sir Ian McKellen's comments on the Hobbit.. js
@@StygianNightmare Ian McKellen cried in the literal sense when he became overcome with emotion during the filming of a scene in which he was alone in a bright, blue room pretending to have a meaningful conversation with people who were not there. The other person was pointing out how this movie shot many scenes in exactly the same way but they didn't feel as soulless as the ones from The Hobbit. It's a comparison that makes sense to make.
Granted green screen was not a new phenomenon when “Sin City” was made but it was so different and well executed. Rodriguez understood Miller’s vision and the appropriate use of colour was just beautiful.
As a comic book lover, nothing comes close to the first Sin City. An absolute masterpiece
Scott Pilgrim is a close second
Watchmen is great too, but for different reasons
@@preppen78 yes. The movie or the series? I really loved the movie
@@Elassyahmed the movie. I haven't seen the series
And then there was "One Piece". Makes this movie look like childs play.
SIn City was a uniquely blessed movie - it had a bunch of very experienced and talented actors combined with an art style that made green screen not only viable but desirable, and a director who is something of a one man band, making it easier for him to shoot out of sequence and allow all these (expensive and busy) actors to be able to come in only for a few days without it feeling off or weird. Can't be done for every movie but it worked out so well for this one.
I've always respected Rodriguez for pushing the boundaries of feature movies shot digitally, and his disdain for the dogma of Hollywood film making. The industry might say that a movie like Sin City is impossible, but Rodriguez and his friends not only make it, but they make it faster, cheaper, and with more artistic integrity then anyone thought possible.
His digital studio (aka his home) in Texas is an absolute marvel in efficient workflow and innovation. His Protools/Avid workstation is insane. Look it up if you want to see magic happen at warp speed.
None of those vfx were done at his studio. They were all made in Montreal.
This really shows how impressive the acting was in this movie. There was practically 0 set, yet every second of the movie you felt like they were exactly where they were portrayed to be
That Michael Maddsen and Bruce Willis moment on set is so bittersweet.
I always thought these scenes were actual sets that the actors were in. Thank you for making this video! I really enjoyed your narration and insight.
Thank YOU for watching!
:)
-Danny
I remember the DVD for Sin City had a special feature where you could watch the movie sped up with all the VFX removed and it was hilarious to see that practically no sets were built at all and there was zero location shooting
@TheJadedJames At first I was disappointed when watching this video..finding out how much was green screened. But now I am impressed with the movie all over again for different reasons this time. This video is one of them😃. It is a movie I kinda forgot about, really.
I think a large reason for it working well is how the movie was stylized to be a "comic book movie", to proudly present itself as "unreal", therefore the uncanny-ness of it all was not only accepted, but expected. Not only that, Sin City itself is a character, almost an antagonist in a way because of it's corrupt nature, and you wouldn't be able to feel that "character" as much if it was a set, much less if it was shot in like Detroit or something
300 and Speed Racer also suceeded in creating a comic book movie as well, while being very different from Sin City.
Absolutely loved this - nice to have it split into two parts for added depth! Really want to watch Sin City now
:D
I suspect part of the reason they were able to shoot nearly everything on greenscreen is because every scene is a re-enactment of a panel in a comic book - each being a snapshot in time of generally a small area.
good point
Must have been so fun for the actors when they first got to see final scenes. Going to rewatch tonight!
I remember seeing this in the theater and being blown away. I was talking about it to anyone who would listen, but no one really seemed as blown away by the movie as I was. I haven't really understood why because it is awesome.
I really enjoyed this. I had never seen most of the behind-the-scenes footage. I had no idea how creative they had to get. I wonder how hard it was to act with all the fluorescent colors.
As a professional editor I wanted to take a moment and compliment you on your editing. Your content has been consistently well cut and presented. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! I by no mean get fancy, but it’s one of my favorite parts of the work.
I've seen a lot of movies, but never thought much about how they were made until I started watching your channel. This stuff is mind blowing.
Agreed, superb channel.
The best book I've read about how films are/ were made is Sidney Lumet's "Making Movies"
As a fan of cinema, its fascinating
Seeing this in theaters when I was in my twenties was an entire experience unlike anything else. Went with friends, mildly stoned, in an uncharacteristically good mood. It was a great experience seeing this on the big screen.
i actually wasn't aware of the way sin city was made... i'm even surprised that i haven't looked it up as the movie is so visually unique.
I honestly wish more real life comic book adoptations did this. It's a really pleasing and satisfying result that gives the same kind of feel that comic books gives you, with style and contrast like you mentioned.
Damn, that Justice League movie would have been good in this style. All the scenes would just have been so much better if done like this.
It’s not easy.. it’s not easy.. the other two movies that tried this I think weren’t sucessful.
@@npcimknot958 i could imagine. But if more worked with this kind of style i guess the work flow would evolve. It's an obvious choice for comic book movies. Max Payne would be another title that this would fit perfect with.
It's crazy that the actors only shot their stuff for very short amount of time..... I'm used to hearing about monrhs and months of shooting.... only a couple of weeks sounds crazy..... thanks for making this video.
Very eye-opening :)
Shooting usually does take a month or two, post production can take years.
This made me want to watch the movies again. Thank you so much for sharing this. I had no idea how simple and incredibly complex it was to create such a film.
During this entire breakdown I thought about the words of Sir Christopher Lee who described shooting in a CGI heavy environment as a new challenge that tests acting skills. It really surprises me how actors managed to give performances so convincing, despite the empty and green Sin City set, that I was never taken out of my suspension of disbelief (which someties happens with SW prequels or MCU)
Lee was a legend. 😢
I think it has a lot to do with how you approach it. Here it seems like they approached it like a stage production, which is something most actors are familiar with. Doing more traditional greenscreen isn't like that, and gives you very little to work with.
The star wars sequels were really bad for suspension of disbelief.
to be honest there was not much they had to act out besides mumbling in pain and raw violence. that's why it works. it totally would feel weird if the characters where actually complex and developing with their deep relationships
I feel like green screen elevates the way movie is presented onscreen when done correctly. We appreciate your insights. Keep working hard.
Sin City has this elusive blend of cinema and theater that makes it special for both actors and audience.
Shark boy and lava girl crawled so sin city could fly
Truly
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, as well. Came out one year before Sin City and was one of the first movies to take the all-green-screen approach.
I remember this movie coming out in the video store when I worked there, and I didn't understand why so many people wanted to rent it. I didn't know anything about comics or graphic novels, or even that there is a difference. I couldn't comprehend why someone would watch a movie about it. But having watched more than 1 video about it, I feel like I missed out. I still might find it somewhere to watch, I guess you could say you've made me curious about this movie
I would highly recommend buying it
All the information you need with no fluff
It's got some really dark, disturbing themes. Be warned
@@Grizzlox I'd hope that was self-evident from the guy with a 1911 slide stuck in his forehead and his neck opened wide :D
@@0num4Always like the guy getting shot with an arrow and just doing a fonzie "Heyy!"
Clive Owens and Dwight is my favourite storyline, the twists and turns and Dwights personality of trying to be reasonable but willing to fight in the world he was in was always interesting to me
I love the use of green screen in 300
it flows so well with the comic book style
Yeah, Speed Racer as well. All 3 movies suceeded in creating a cartoonish, comic book style while being totally different from one another.
These in depth look at the making of Sin City is fascinating. Please make more.
You got it :)
It’s a masterpiece of filmmaking and I couldn’t imagine any other actors and actresses filling the roles of the characters portrayed.
Seeing this movie at the theater back in the day was a real treat.
I have no idea why they waited so long for part 2. Too many years passed, and nobody cared anymore.
Missed opportunity.
They did the Spirit their own IP and that flopped.
Also Sin City 2 was a downgrade and they didnt follow the comics most of the time.
to your point, I really like this movie (the first one) and yet I totally forgot there was a sequel I haven't seen until your comment reminded me.
ME: "There was a sequel?"
(Comes back to me.)
ME: "Oh yeah, I really wanted to see that when it came out and then I forgot it existed."
fwiw I did the same thing with Zombieland's sequel
3:03 - I always loved the color-difference of the joints. Black when the tiles are bright, white when the tiles are dark.
After seeing this AMAZING, detailed, concise, and beautifully restrained (like Sin City itself. Lol) breakdown you've got yourself a new subscriber. Thank you for posting! This was breath taking. I stumbled here, but man oh man did recommendations really get it right this time. This is one of my ALL TIME favorite films and your explanations have thoroughly explained why it feels/looks so oddly timeless and also why it has been IMPOSSIBLE to replicate. Thanks again.
:D
Rough to see Bruce Willis enjoying his job and life in general so much more such a long time ago.
I think you touched on something that filmmakers should take to heart - this type of shooting works for achieving heightened reality, or surreality, but often not for realism.
I think motion also helps delineate between background, middle, and foreground. The billowing coats imply that there's enough space surrounding the characters for their clothes to move.
On another note, the full trailer for Killers of the Flower Moon came out some time ago. Watching this made me wonder how deeply the book's author for that film was involved in the cinematography aspect.
I'll have to check it out. Thank you!
Amazing fact that this movie heavy on VFX was more akin to stage plays (like Bruce Willis said), but other CGI heavy movies don’t.
It turns out when artists have the time and budget to fully realize a vision, any tool in their toolbox can be used well.
Wow I've been waiting for this for so long. This is great!
Comparing this to Sky Captain is like watching a toddler finger painting versus a great master.
One is doing whatever with whatever while the other understands and uses the appropriate tools for their goal.
This has quickly become my favourite channel on yt
:)
6:50 "they would just leave the camera rolling." FASCINATING!
Probably the best two CinemaStix episodes ever. Awesome work.
I remember watching this movie in my teens. The hyper-stylized visuals have always stood out when I thought of this movie. This essay really helps clarify the why and the how. They achieved the comic-book look for the live-action film.
sin city feels more like a theater production than anything. feels like watching a play. it's such a fun movie.
Same vibes from Reservoir Dogs. It always felt more like a theater play.
so great to see Bruce Willis genuinely having a good time
This was a great look into the direction and screen effects that I thought were amazing before but after this video I won't look at the movie the same GREAT VID
It's kinda similar to the live action one piece. The creator was heavily involved and actually created a great live action anime adaptation.
One-piece ain't to masterpiece but it's very entertaining and earnest. It looks like the crew cared about what they were making
@@whwhywhywhywhywhywhy facts
I had never read the manga or watched the anime but compared to other adaptations I have to say the passion really stood out. I really enjoyed it
who tf watches that shit...
Why does everything have to be anime to you people?
Something i would love to see is the reaction of the actor seeing the film for the first time and realising all the changes and post processing done.
Wow, that's actually incredible! Wish this level of creativity could be seen more often...
Another fascinating foray into filmmaking. Thanks Danny, you're fast becoming my favourite and most reliable teacher.
Noir is my favotire setting/style and this is one of my all time favorite movies. I never understood why this style was never reproduced outside of Frank Miller's stories. I appreciate you taking me down the rabbit hole of how the magic was made real. Every video more interstingt than the last ,I look forward to your next essay.
Watchmen is another great example, For those of us that read the comic book it translated perfectly.
300 and Speed Racer also suceeded in using green screen to create a comic book movie as well, while being very different from Sin City in styles.
We did a lot of CG elements for this movie. Some of it still holds up.
"Sin City" was a revelation to me. The first time the spirit of comic art was captured in a movie. And it remained unique until today.
The only movie I went to the theater again in the same week.
Sin City is not just a case of the most faithful film adaptation of a comic book/graphic novel whereas most other adaptations get lost in translation; it's also still the best case of where green screen balanced correctly with traditional staging, storytelling and filmmaking techniques creates a lasting impact. I saw this in theaters when I was 19 going on 20 and it STILL hasn't lost the impact it left on me the first time.
Amazing green screen work by Miller! Sin City was a masterpiece and I never knew they would green screen 90% of the movie. Green Screen and Virtual Production has made filming much easier and faster now because you can control a lot of the environment that you couldn't have before.
Is it just me or this video keeps reminding me of *"Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy"* ? 😭 I think it's the smooth jazz and the calming voice.
Kudos to actors who are sitting on a green box, often in spandex, talking to a ping pong ball on a stick and trying to express emotion !
I'm taking a master's in English, and your channel has actually helped in making me consider whether I want to write my thesis on adaptation. The problem is obviously that I know you have to be very certain before you start writing a thesis about something you're a fan of, because by the end you may end up hating it.
Write it on "Adaptation"
It's incredible they even predicted how Mickey Rourke would end up looking.
Rodriguez doesn't get enough love for the amazing things he does in his films. He's not just technically skilled or bombastic. He's truly seeing the entire scene in the film knowing what it will take to make that shot perfect.
Another thing I think makes this movie work is the actors taking it seriously enough to fully commit to the heightened reality with the intensity of their performances. In many ways this movie (like the comic book it's based on) is an exaggerated version of the old film noirs-which themselves were crafted towards evoking emotions over pure intellectual reflection-except the emotional cues are distilled even further, removing even more of the mundane substrate to reveal the vital essence of emotional stimuli. For the effect to be successful, the viewers must open themselves to it and to make them comfortable with such a direct connection every aspect of the film needs to reflect the premise. If the performances of the cast were not suitably surreal it would have been jarring and I think it would have badly hurt the movie.
Keep on gettin’ it dude, love these videos and the appreciation shown to good and unique movies, directors, writers, etc.
Granted I'm sure it's awkward to act on greenscreen but the fact that the actors were there for only a few days to max of 2 weeks. That's incredible considering Alba made 500k in that short period.
A great movie when it came out, and still great now. Sin City "2" is a far cry from the magic, mood, and performances of the first.
My best friend and I saw this at the Fox Theater in Atlanta. Seeing this in a 75 year old "movie palace" with such history made this even more special.
Best RUclips vid I've seen on the topic. Congrats.
:)
I haven't watched Sin City in so long, and now I need to watch it again. I had no idea how much green screen was used. Very impressive for the time period.
I really have huge respect for those who created a whole new reality on their sets and then filmed it to tell a story, but it's so fascinating to peek inside the creation of a movie using the green screen so much... Really interesting video, thank you!
As a black and white film photographer, this movie when it came out inspired lots of lighting setups for my images.
I like Sim City a lot. My favorite part is building a box around a character and fast forwarding time until they die.
Dude I love your breakdowns and I just wanna rewarch Sin City everytime you do a video talking about it 😊
This is so nostalgic to the 2000's for me now. Our cinematic heritage.
This was way more interesting than the previous video, well done. :D
Sin City is an amazing piece of creative art
I'm not a huge fan of this film overall, but the look they achieved was fab.
A wild Lloyd!
Lindy we need to save da doggone White race
@@adamcurry8767 it really feels like we bumped into one of those celebrities who's just super duper, like Tom Hanks or Bill Murray :)
how come? would love you to elaborate further!
This film is one of a handful of movies ever made that are actually good. If you don't like this movie, you are weird.
You convinced me. Sin City might be the only Comicbook FILM. As it was shot and edited in a way that a comic would have been drawn.
Really good dude. I became fascinated with Frank Miller after reading the Dark Knight when it first came out. So obviously I was thrilled when they planned to make the movie of Sin City. In that time and since I've worked in film and what you've done here is a really good essay. Makes me want to go back and both read and watch again.
Films like this remind you that film is supposed to be about what is on-screen and how it's presented. So many people these days seem to reduce _every_ form of narrative media down to plot and characters as if they're the be-all of storytelling, and they very much are not. Even music these days is all about the lyrics, the music (using that term pretty loosely here) is just kinda there because it's "supposed" to be.
I wish people would place more emphasis on the traits that define each respective medium. Visual communication in film, abstract communication through sound and composition in music, expression and narrative through gameplay in video games. It's like every medium is being truncated in some way by pushing their most critical component to the side.
Again, your side-by-side shot for shot really highlights the masterpiece that is this movie.
The syling of this movie was absolutely epic.
Ever since I found the Sin city books in the corner of the basement in my dads comic book collection i fell in love with the books. So i will always have a soft spot for this movie, especially the story and vibe of it all perfectly captured the feeling of all that grit, dirt, blood and ultimately the void. I fuckin loved Mickey Rourke's acting in this movie as well which always stoodout to me among so many other great performers. Brittany Murphy, who in my opinion was a one of a kind talent taken from us way too early, every role she played she played it to perfection. Movies like Sin City are rare these days.
frank miller is such a revolutionary comic book artist. i really like ur videos, they're very chill yet informative and they're nice to both watch as a standalone or put in the background :)
I don't think I've watched this since I've owned an OLED TV, I'm changing that today. Great video as always!
Because it's mostly green screen, imagine them remastering it for a 10 year anniversary release. That would be dope. They could even introduce other characters and different storylines. Dope
Sin City was a Sinematic masterpiece. No-one can convince me otherwise.
I've seen Sin City both in its original language and it's German dub. And while I usually hate dubs, this movie is unique in that I think it actually adds something to it. With so much of the voices being done as internal monologue or narration, the dub doesn't have the usual problems of trying to synch foreign sounds to lip movements of another language. At the same time, the harsh sound of German language fits incredibly well with the tone of the whole thing.
The only other movie that I can think of where I experienced dubbing as something positive was the original OldBoy, for very much the same reasons: Dark and fucked up depressive atmosphere, and much of the talking being done from the off.
The amazing bulk is a much better example of good green screen
Sin City is one of my favorite movies, and one of the reasons is because it is so beautifully shot. I can't imagine it being done without green screen.
Just imagine you shoot a movie with famous actors, you're portrayed right next to them and someone is like "Hey! You're there with Bruce Willis how was he?".
"Never seen him." :D
that greenscreen treadmill is INSANE.
I hate green screen in movies but this really shows the actual potential of what it can do
I fell IN LOVE with this film when it came out. Nothing like this was out there. Gorgeous
I think part of the reason green screen was so successful in Sin City was because there was so much focus and drama revolving on the characters - they were the focal point. In some other films (e.g. SW prequels) it's used for a set that competes with the characters for attention.
A comic faithful The Walking Dead show filmed in this way would be pretty cool.