So cool to see this video! I ran that trip 35 years ago at 12 feet. Myself and four other guys in a raft that we borrowed from a company. Three of the four were guides. Most insane day of my life.
Almost ran the New Gorge at 13 ft in the mid nineties. Talked to a boater down at the old Fayette Station bridge and he said the run was doable at that level but a lot of the bankside eddies were death traps with eddie fences that would drown anyone in them. That was about all I needed to hear.
I rock climb and highline in the new, and I’m a pretty strong swimmer, but something about whitewater yakking is just insanely intimidating to me. That was sick footage!!!
Awesome vid and scenery. I live about an hour from Sandstone Falls just below the Bluestone dam. I need to make another trip to the park, been a while since I've visited.
It’s amazing seeing the mountains on each side that the river cut out a long time ago. I grew up on that river and it’s dangerous as hell. Learned how to swim with my dad on a sand bar though. Great catfish fishing too. No way would I ever get in that river like that lol I’ve jumped from planes and even bungee jumped off New River Gorge Bridge but you’ll never see me in that river when it’s up like that. Nope!
We paddled as a group tour parts of this 45 years ago when it was very low water and the guides had to work to make it exciting. THAT would have be exciting.
We just ran it the other day at about the same! Was sick as hell! We were playing around like crazy and still finished the trip in less than 2 hours lol
I am absolutely gutted over what Hurricane Helene did to the rivers in NC, and the communities around them. Especially in the case of the Green Narrows. It still doesn't feel real to me that the most iconic, well known, and loved creek on the East Coast was just utterly decimated. Everytime I see new footage of the changes to the Green, I start hoping that the last couple of weeks were just a bad dream that I haven't woken up from yet. Last year, I finally got to the point in my paddling progression where I was ready to attempt the Green, but I went up there with a class where you had to agree to portage the big 3 to participate. Wanted to run Go Left and Gorilla desperately, and had spent years preparing for and studying them to the point where I honestly felt I could have run them blindfolded, but the leader of the class I was in was a personal idol of mine who was one of the reasons I got into paddling in the first place, so I walked because I wasn't about to argue with him. Besides, "the river isn't going anywhere. I'll run it next time" Yup... I will never forgive myself for not running Gorilla when I had the chance, and now that chance will never come. Even typing that started to put a lump in my throat. I honestly can't think of any other rapid that I was even half as excited to paddle for the first time than I was for Gorilla. I would bet money that when I'm 80+ years old and on my deathbed, not running Gorilla before Helene destroyed it is still going to be one of the biggest regrets of my life. And I don't even live within 8 hours of the Green, cannot even begin to imagine what all the local paddlers (some of whom moved to the area in the first place to be close to the Green) are feeling. It literally has to feel like a close family member died for locals...
@@tankmaster1018 Damn, I know nothing of this community, I just stumbled onto this video and saw this. I'm in Ohio but have spent time in Western NC and have nothing but love and good memories for Asheville, Chimney Rock, the whole area. I'm shattered for the residents, communities, the ecosystem, and can't imagine how I would go about processing the devastation if I lived there, but this shows yet another layer of loss. I'm so sorry! For you and all of your friends in the paddling community. What a loss. Take care of yourself and be safe!
I was just trying to stay alive in my half slice 😂 only been paddling it about a year, and never had it in water that big before, so there was definently some cowardice in my paddling to say the least...if you watch David's video (paddle climb dive) from my group, you'll see they actually surfed a few of the waves you're talking about.
Yup! Absolutely loving the Ripper 2. Was seriously nervous putting on to the New at that level in a half slice since I've only owned it like 6 months, but after a few successful upper gauley and little falls laps on the potomac, I figured I'd give it a try. It handled great dude. The stability lost from paddling it in a creeker is more than made up for with the maneuvering ability of a half slice. Felt so much more in control in the big waves them I expected, was really pleased with how the ripper handled, and this is coming from a die hard Waka fan! If you look at my video history, almost every one of my whitewater videos is in a Waka OG...until I got the Ripper 2 ❤
It is. I had a friend go into it a few years ago at similar levels, and he was underwater for a solid 10 seconds after he was forced to ditch his boat and swim. And that's not even taking into account the gopro effect. If it looks big on video, it's fucking terrifying in real life. And reading water is simpler then you think when it comes to big features like that. If you rewind the video to about 10 seconds before that hole comes into sight, you'll notice there's a massive "horizon line" where it looks like the river dissappears. It's harder to see on video, but the basic rule of water reading i follow is that if I can't see the river downstream, it's either a big drop or hole. If I can see features downstream, no matter how nasty they look, it's better then dropping blind into a horizon line. If you can't see what's coming up downstream, you're rolling the dice. If you can see what's coming up, even if it looks terrifying, at least you can see what you're up against, and prepare accordingly.
Somewhere way back in the day there was a guy who attempted to run the Upper G at 26K cfs in a squirt boat. He got slammed down between rocks and pinned. The rescue squad found him washed up several days later still in his boat with the spray skirt still sealed to the cockpit rim.
@@paulherring8959 I was there in Oct of 87 for the drawdown..We rafted both the Upper and Lower in one day....I dont know how uninformed you’d have to be to get out on that kind of water in a squirt-boat, even just to paddle around the put-in…The guides said at drawdown it rated Class 6 but you cant commercially raft above a C5 so they fudged it to something called a 5+🙈 That could just be BS but thats a gorgeous piece of water😎
Maximum wave face heights (trough to peak) in the Niagara Gorge when I ran it were at least 2 to 3 times higher than the biggest shown in this video. Waves much bigger in the so-called Himalayas of Niagara Gorge. Never ran the New at flood but have heard that at very high levels some of the shoreline holes are death traps. Cheers!
@@tankmaster1018 - If you dream of running the Niagara Gorge, please see my reply to @chazott's comment. Thanks for posting your video. I really enjoyed it.
I ran the lower New at flood stage in a raft. I think it was like 17 ft if I remember correct. We were the last bus they allowed to run that day before they shut it down. HUGE. Total carnage. Our boat was strong, we had a great guide, young strong paddlers, and we cut right thru everything, but 3 other boats in our group got capsized. Several people got to the bank and said fuk it, and walked back 2 miles to the put in. Their boat was rolled up and stuffed into another boat. We were rescuing people right left and center. Crazy day.
Post. The water was on its way back down from 13.7 feet a few days earlier. We caught it just as it was about to go back under the 10 foot mark. And I'm guessing you're talking about the Beury Hole on Double Z 😂
@@tankmaster1018 Yup. That's the big nasty. I'm pretty sure I could see Hell at the bottom of that beast. This video was a speed run if I ever saw one, and some of that looked more like some of the big water out west than it did an eastern river. Must have been a mighty fun day. I can only imagine what it would have been like at 13.7 dodging trees and other stuff in the water. Good job, and thanks for documenting it!
It was all the water coming from Hurricane Helene I believe. It hit a maximum of 13.7 feet a few days before I went up to the Gauley/New River area for the weekend, and we caught it Sunday on its way back down right before it went back under the 10 foot mark.
I live near the New river. Unsure exactly where this was. However, under no circumstances will I even walk in myd from the flooding that occurred. Mych less put my kayak in it...... How do you not get in trouble for this?
Because people run it at these levels and higher constantly? I mean they don't even cut off commercial rafting trips until it's way higher, and there's even videos on their RUclips pages of them running it a foot and a half higher then this. The New river gorge at 10 feet isn't even considered flood stage, and I have friends who have run it up to 4 times the level it was at in this video at actual flood stage and the park Rangers literally spent 30 minutes talking to them at the takeout because they thought it was cool, aka the polar opposite of getting them in trouble 😂 there isn't a single instance in the history of the gorge I'm aware of where kayakers were even told to stay off due to high water, let along getting in trouble for paddling it. You have to realize that in terms of big dangerous whitewater at a high river level, this is literally as easy as it gets. I mean, none of us even flipped, which I don't consider a sign that we were in over our heads at an unreasonable water level to say the least...
Uh... it's right at 4:52 in the video? Even put up subtitles naming the rapid, and the Beury Hole in the middle of it 😂 It's one of the rapids that's almost unrecognizable at high water. It normally has those super distinctive rocks that make it easy to identify at normal levels, but you literally have no landmarks whatsoever above the 8 foot mark
@@tankmaster1018 my friends and I ran the Upper Gauley on 10/13. I can't believe it droped that much in a week. Pretty cool video, especially the multiple runs under the Gorge bridge.
I am in Maryland right outside of Frederick, about 45 minutes from Washington DC, but I go up to west Virginia regularly to paddle. Wanna hit something sometime dude?
You could, but you would spend the majority of the rapid underwater, and would need help getting across the river left eddy line which would hold anybody out of a boat underwater for a life threatening amount of time. They teach swiftwater rescue classes on this rapid at normal levels, and have people swim it constantly, never at these water levels obviously, but it's a short rapid and as long as you could hold your breath for 20-30 seconds, you could get away with swimming it at this level. Wouldn't recommend trying it, but you could! Lmfao
You should never paddle a river in flood if you think you might swim, since on-river rescue is difficult to impossible and you may drown before you can get to a safe place.
@@johnmaxwell1750 That makes sense. I'm not a paddler, and it seems like it would be hard to know that you won't swim. Are you saying that an experienced paddler would always be able to right his boat before running out of breath even in these conditions?
@@chazott - Even very experienced boaters aren't always able to roll back up in huge whitewater after capsizing. Depends on circumstance and whether you can make your roll in sustained heavy whitewater. On my second run of the Niagara gorge I capsized early and had to hold my breath for at least 30 seconds before I could roll back up. I was flipped by a powerful eddy line and had to fight suction that nearly pulled me out of my boat. But on my first run I flipped while cresting the biggest wave but was able to roll back up in less than 10 seconds. Much better paddlers than me have died swimming in big water because they couldn't roll back up. This possibility is just a given for anyone who tries to paddle huge whitewater. Everyone should realize and accept the risks they assume when paddling big whitewater, where self rescue is the only way you are likely to survive and a swim can be fatal.
@@johnmaxwell1750 Well said! If you guy's are curious, Benny Marr gave me permission a few years back to post his solo Niagara Gorge kayak run on my channel since he only had it up on Facebook at the time. Check this out! (ruclips.net/video/eZ-nBnrQzLQ/видео.html)
Just big water class III and IV. Most people agree that around 2 or 3 feet is the hardest level because it's a mix of big water, but still some technical maneuvering around rocks. At higher levels like this, I think it's way easier. There are some huge waves and holes, but you can see and hear them coming a mile away, and could drive a dump truck around them with how wide the river is. Definently wouldn't want to swim at this level though, would be relentless, and you would almost certainly need help getting out of the main flow and across the eddy lines.
Lol, would if I could. But also it seems like pretty much everything washes out over the 12 foot mark except for the whale hole, beury hole, and fayette station rapid itself. There's a video on here of a 12 foot run, and most of the locations in my video were there were huge waves were mostly flat at 12+ feet, even all the Keeneys and Miller's Folly
I’m just curious, what are the dangers considering the Ayer is so high? I would think rocks would really be an issue, maybe strainers/logs or dangerous currents?
It's funny because out of everything you just listed, rocks are by far the least of my worries when doing a high water run like that. The main dangers whitewater kayakers face from rocks is hitting your head or another part of your body on them while upside down after flipping, pinning your boat on them after hitting them at a bad angle, catching your feet or limbs on them if your out of your boat in a way that prevents you from washing free while water continues flowing over your head and forcing your body down (entrapment) or swimming into rocks that have a big enough space in between them to let water flow through, but not enough space for your body to wash through (sieve). So literally none of these dangers are present when the water is high, simply because the rocks are so far underwater that none of those scenarios I just listed would be able to occur. To even get deep enough to hit any rocks, you would have to be out of your boat and literally dive down deeper then would be possible with a whitewater PFD in order to even get close to the rocks forming the rapids. It's not that rocks aren't a hazard in whitewater kayaking, they are a MAJOR hazard, just not under these high water circumstances. At water this high, the only real hazards formed by rocks is the water pouring over massive rocks, and curling back upstream. This forms gigantic holes, two of which were shown in my video at the 2:04 and 5:09 timestamp, which you would 100% swim out of if you ended up in one of them in your boat, but the river is so wide from the high water and they are so loud that you can hear them coming a half mile away, and miss them by 200 feet on either side. In a similar vein, the strainers and logs you mentioned as a potential danger aren't a factor at all since they are a hazard that occurs on the river banks when trees or branches partially fall into, or obstruct the water during a rapid in a way that's difficult to avoid. I don't think we got within 100 feet of the river banks in any of the rapids, so there would literally need to be a Redwood or Giant Sequoia down to reach far enough out into the current to be a danger to boaters. But even then, the huge power of the high water flow would pull any of those trees straight off the bank and send them floating downstream at high speed, which could be a hazard if your paddling at the highest level the river is going to max out at, when the trees are actively being pulled off the shores and you could potentially be paddling next to them or get struck by them as they make their way downstream, but this wouldn't be an issue 3 days after the peak level like when we came through since everything that got swept off the banks was already long gone. So let's talk about the real dangers about whitewater kayaking in a river like this at a high level. Since you seem somewhat knowledgable on the topic, I'm sure you know the worst case scenario in whitewater kayaking is swimming, when you flip, can't roll the boat back up, and are forced to pull your spray skirt and exit the kayak. This happens easier then you would think in big water like this, either from continually getting knocked back over during roll attempts by big waves and reactionaries, being in an area of high aeration or boils where the support you would normally get from sweeping your paddle across the surface during the roll is almost negligible, or being upside down in an area of high hydraulic pressure that causes your skirt to pop off your cockpit rim without you pulling it (skirt implosion) Once your out of the kayak in big water conditions like this, it is a literal nightmare scenario with your only lifelines being your empty boat to hold onto to keep your head above water, and the other paddlers who you will need help from to get out of the current. By far the biggest dangers to a kayaker in these conditions are Flush Drowning, and being held underwater by eddy lines. Flush Drowning occurs when a kayaker is unable to swim out of the main flow of a rapid, and is just relentlessly battered by waves and forced underwater over and over again until they pass out not from water entering the lungs, but the inability to take a breath of air. Then once your unconscious in water like that, you actually drown unless your crew manages to get you to shore and give you rescue breathing. You ever get the shit beaten out of you by waves on the beach as a kid to the point where you are desperate for air, but keep getting knocked back underwater by the next wave everytime you try to break the surface of the water for a breath? Just imagine that happening on a continuous basis, with no way to stand up or swim out of the current since you are already exhausted from failing to roll your kayak and swimming, and you have a pretty good idea of how Flush Drowning can occur. The other danger is getting held underwater trying to swim across eddy lines. That is where the fast moving main flow hits the slower moving calm water behind obstructions like big rocks on shore, or a bend in the river that forces the main current away from the banks. Theres 2 parts in this video at 3:54 and 12:41 where I pointed out the trouble I was having paddling my kayak out of the main flow across the eddy lines. So if I was out of my kayak in water conditions and tried to actually swim across those without my boat, it would suck me about 5 feet underwater, and send me spinning and flipping parallel to the shore until the rapid itself ended completely (or didn't and kept going, see Flush Drowning) I would not be able to hold my breath long enough to survive a powerful eddy line hold down like that, even in a whitewater PFD, and especially if I was already exhausted from swimming the rapid. You would need to be holding onto the back of another kayaker's boat and have them actually paddle you over the eddy line to get out, or you would have to keep swimming until the rapid ended and the eddy line was safe to attempt to swim over again, which 95% of the time isn't going to be an option at high water levels like this with how continuous and unrelenting everything gets. Sorry for the massive wall of text, just love having conversations like this with people who are curious about whitewater. You were completely correct in assuming a river at high water like this would have it's own unique set of hazards, they just aren't the ones you would initially imagine!
@@tankmaster1018 thanks so much, I meant to say the rocks wouldn’t really matter, but I still really appreciate all of this info. I would just imagine that there would be some trees/logs that would get stuck on the bottom and stick up but like you said, they would probably never reach the middle and once they were floating, they would be moving really fast and would have a really hard time getting caught on something. I have some experience in being on whitewater in a canoe only up to maybe class three up in Maine on the Alagash River, but I still really enjoy watching this kind of content, thanks so much for sharing.
So cool to see this video! I ran that trip 35 years ago at 12 feet. Myself and four other guys in a raft that we borrowed from a company. Three of the four were guides. Most insane day of my life.
Almost ran the New Gorge at 13 ft in the mid nineties. Talked to a boater down at the old Fayette Station bridge and he said the run was doable at that level but a lot of the bankside eddies were death traps with eddie fences that would drown anyone in them. That was about all I needed to hear.
Beury's Hole looks like something you do not come back out of. Good for you young guys! I kayak, but not like that anymore! LOL!
what timestamp?
That's some squirrely water! Random eddies and converging waves. Very unpredictable, but well done!
Appreciate the kind words man! Thanks for watching, and have a good night
I rock climb and highline in the new, and I’m a pretty strong swimmer, but something about whitewater yakking is just insanely intimidating to me. That was sick footage!!!
I often hike up at the top of the ridge and can hear the people yelling as they come down the river. It’s cool to see it from your perspective.
Awesome vid and scenery. I live about an hour from Sandstone Falls just below the Bluestone dam. I need to make another trip to the park, been a while since I've visited.
It’s amazing seeing the mountains on each side that the river cut out a long time ago. I grew up on that river and it’s dangerous as hell. Learned how to swim with my dad on a sand bar though. Great catfish fishing too. No way would I ever get in that river like that lol I’ve jumped from planes and even bungee jumped off New River Gorge Bridge but you’ll never see me in that river when it’s up like that. Nope!
The new river is in the top 3 oldest rivers in the world and the oldest in North America. 360 million years old
We paddled as a group tour parts of this 45 years ago when it was very low water and the guides had to work to make it exciting. THAT would have be exciting.
We just ran it the other day at about the same! Was sick as hell! We were playing around like crazy and still finished the trip in less than 2 hours lol
Have not run the New in many a year, back in my misspent youth, when I had the bug for eastern rivers, great fun.
wild ride ! thanks for sharing
HFS..I ran it a number of times in the mid 80’s…One an overnighter..Thats insane😎
I still have a picture standing out on the catwalk that runs under the bridge👍
Helene created some serious rip. I’m in NC and you see what happened here. That looks epic
I am absolutely gutted over what Hurricane Helene did to the rivers in NC, and the communities around them. Especially in the case of the Green Narrows. It still doesn't feel real to me that the most iconic, well known, and loved creek on the East Coast was just utterly decimated. Everytime I see new footage of the changes to the Green, I start hoping that the last couple of weeks were just a bad dream that I haven't woken up from yet. Last year, I finally got to the point in my paddling progression where I was ready to attempt the Green, but I went up there with a class where you had to agree to portage the big 3 to participate. Wanted to run Go Left and Gorilla desperately, and had spent years preparing for and studying them to the point where I honestly felt I could have run them blindfolded, but the leader of the class I was in was a personal idol of mine who was one of the reasons I got into paddling in the first place, so I walked because I wasn't about to argue with him. Besides, "the river isn't going anywhere. I'll run it next time"
Yup...
I will never forgive myself for not running Gorilla when I had the chance, and now that chance will never come. Even typing that started to put a lump in my throat. I honestly can't think of any other rapid that I was even half as excited to paddle for the first time than I was for Gorilla. I would bet money that when I'm 80+ years old and on my deathbed, not running Gorilla before Helene destroyed it is still going to be one of the biggest regrets of my life. And I don't even live within 8 hours of the Green, cannot even begin to imagine what all the local paddlers (some of whom moved to the area in the first place to be close to the Green) are feeling. It literally has to feel like a close family member died for locals...
@@tankmaster1018 Damn, I know nothing of this community, I just stumbled onto this video and saw this. I'm in Ohio but have spent time in Western NC and have nothing but love and good memories for Asheville, Chimney Rock, the whole area. I'm shattered for the residents, communities, the ecosystem, and can't imagine how I would go about processing the devastation if I lived there, but this shows yet another layer of loss. I'm so sorry! For you and all of your friends in the paddling community. What a loss. Take care of yourself and be safe!
HOLY CRAP.. Looks like ya should have brought a surf board. WOW great paddling
Thanks man! Appreciate it
more THAN WELCOME. looked like a wild ride..
my kayak would have been full of shit within 20 minutes down that line. you're a maniac! 🤣🤘
Nice to see you in the Ripper 2 dude!
Yeah it's been awesome dude! Love the boat, thanks again
Your living the dream
Paddle looks sick!
Very cool. ride the wave train!
U boyz passed up some epic surf waves!
I was just trying to stay alive in my half slice 😂 only been paddling it about a year, and never had it in water that big before, so there was definently some cowardice in my paddling to say the least...if you watch David's video (paddle climb dive) from my group, you'll see they actually surfed a few of the waves you're talking about.
Nice waves!
Looks a lot like the GC at that level. Large dynamic waves.
You've got that right. Very much like the Grand Canyon.
The sea was angry that day my friend.
I got water in my ear off that first big wave!
Yeee! I'll stick with class II for awhile still !
Ripper 2? Insane level bro
Yup! Absolutely loving the Ripper 2. Was seriously nervous putting on to the New at that level in a half slice since I've only owned it like 6 months, but after a few successful upper gauley and little falls laps on the potomac, I figured I'd give it a try. It handled great dude. The stability lost from paddling it in a creeker is more than made up for with the maneuvering ability of a half slice. Felt so much more in control in the big waves them I expected, was really pleased with how the ripper handled, and this is coming from a die hard Waka fan! If you look at my video history, almost every one of my whitewater videos is in a Waka OG...until I got the Ripper 2 ❤
You could almost take a see kayak on Fayette Station lol
I dont know how to read whitewater, but that Beaurrys Hole to the left looked like it could take you under and keep you there. You got nerves of steel
It is. I had a friend go into it a few years ago at similar levels, and he was underwater for a solid 10 seconds after he was forced to ditch his boat and swim. And that's not even taking into account the gopro effect. If it looks big on video, it's fucking terrifying in real life. And reading water is simpler then you think when it comes to big features like that. If you rewind the video to about 10 seconds before that hole comes into sight, you'll notice there's a massive "horizon line" where it looks like the river dissappears. It's harder to see on video, but the basic rule of water reading i follow is that if I can't see the river downstream, it's either a big drop or hole. If I can see features downstream, no matter how nasty they look, it's better then dropping blind into a horizon line. If you can't see what's coming up downstream, you're rolling the dice. If you can see what's coming up, even if it looks terrifying, at least you can see what you're up against, and prepare accordingly.
NICE GLENGERMAN!
Ran the Gauley at drawdown…looks about the same😎
Somewhere way back in the day there was a guy who attempted to run the Upper G at 26K cfs in a squirt boat. He got slammed down between rocks and pinned. The rescue squad found him washed up several days later still in his boat with the spray skirt still sealed to the cockpit rim.
@@paulherring8959 I was there in Oct of 87 for the drawdown..We rafted both the Upper and Lower in one day....I dont know how uninformed you’d have to be to get out on that kind of water in a squirt-boat, even just to paddle around the put-in…The guides said at drawdown it rated Class 6 but you cant commercially raft above a C5 so they fudged it to something called a 5+🙈
That could just be BS but thats a gorgeous piece of water😎
@@jessicae.s.340Not sure who you talked to but I guided there for many decades and never once did I hear any guides call fall release Class 6...
@@Michael65429 The guide, named Rob if I remember, told us that…as I said, it may just be guide BS…and it was 36 yrs ago
awesome
Great vid but missed a good few kick flips. Stay safe paddle hard
Been there, done that...
25 years ago.
Still looks like a helluva exciting time!
Maximum wave face heights (trough to peak) in the Niagara Gorge when I ran it were at least 2 to 3 times higher than the biggest shown in this video. Waves much bigger in the so-called Himalayas of Niagara Gorge. Never ran the New at flood but have heard that at very high levels some of the shoreline holes are death traps. Cheers!
That's awesome you've done the Niagara Gorge! That's a dream run of mine, and yeah, it obviously makes the waves in my video look tiny in comparison.
@@tankmaster1018 - If you dream of running the Niagara Gorge, please see my reply to @chazott's comment. Thanks for posting your video. I really enjoyed it.
Because you are such a man
I ran the lower New at flood stage in a raft. I think it was like 17 ft if I remember correct. We were the last bus they allowed to run that day before they shut it down. HUGE. Total carnage. Our boat was strong, we had a great guide, young strong paddlers, and we cut right thru everything, but 3 other boats in our group got capsized. Several people got to the bank and said fuk it, and walked back 2 miles to the put in. Their boat was rolled up and stuffed into another boat. We were rescuing people right left and center. Crazy day.
@@bobfunck6749 - Wow!
Shouldve road the nolichucky when it was at 43 feet and 1.2 mill gallons per second 💀💀
😬
Was at 180,000cfs. 1.2 mil gallons per sec. The Nolichucky I mean.
@ yes youre correct i. Flubbed that a little bit. My bad.
@@samarrington1198 but it was still absolutely raging.
There was one hole in there which reminded me of death.
Was this pre- or post- hurricane?
Post. The water was on its way back down from 13.7 feet a few days earlier. We caught it just as it was about to go back under the 10 foot mark. And I'm guessing you're talking about the Beury Hole on Double Z 😂
@@tankmaster1018 Yup. That's the big nasty. I'm pretty sure I could see Hell at the bottom of that beast. This video was a speed run if I ever saw one, and some of that looked more like some of the big water out west than it did an eastern river. Must have been a mighty fun day. I can only imagine what it would have been like at 13.7 dodging trees and other stuff in the water. Good job, and thanks for documenting it!
R4'd it at ~19' once back in the 90's. That was stout.
Sick! is water so high cuz of hurricane Clinton bro?
It was all the water coming from Hurricane Helene I believe. It hit a maximum of 13.7 feet a few days before I went up to the Gauley/New River area for the weekend, and we caught it Sunday on its way back down right before it went back under the 10 foot mark.
I live near the New river. Unsure exactly where this was. However, under no circumstances will I even walk in myd from the flooding that occurred. Mych less put my kayak in it...... How do you not get in trouble for this?
Because people run it at these levels and higher constantly? I mean they don't even cut off commercial rafting trips until it's way higher, and there's even videos on their RUclips pages of them running it a foot and a half higher then this. The New river gorge at 10 feet isn't even considered flood stage, and I have friends who have run it up to 4 times the level it was at in this video at actual flood stage and the park Rangers literally spent 30 minutes talking to them at the takeout because they thought it was cool, aka the polar opposite of getting them in trouble 😂 there isn't a single instance in the history of the gorge I'm aware of where kayakers were even told to stay off due to high water, let along getting in trouble for paddling it. You have to realize that in terms of big dangerous whitewater at a high river level, this is literally as easy as it gets. I mean, none of us even flipped, which I don't consider a sign that we were in over our heads at an unreasonable water level to say the least...
This is in Fayetteville, WV. You must live near the New River in a different state.
I didnt see Double Z?
Uh... it's right at 4:52 in the video? Even put up subtitles naming the rapid, and the Beury Hole in the middle of it 😂 It's one of the rapids that's almost unrecognizable at high water. It normally has those super distinctive rocks that make it easy to identify at normal levels, but you literally have no landmarks whatsoever above the 8 foot mark
When did you make this run?
Two weeks ago on Sunday. Caught it on the way back down after the water level peaked at 13.7 from all the water from Hurricane Helene.
@@tankmaster1018 my friends and I ran the Upper Gauley on 10/13. I can't believe it droped that much in a week.
Pretty cool video, especially the multiple runs under the Gorge bridge.
Are you in West Virginia? I live there
I am in Maryland right outside of Frederick, about 45 minutes from Washington DC, but I go up to west Virginia regularly to paddle. Wanna hit something sometime dude?
@@tankmaster1018nah I’m good
@Kole-Martin fair enough. Have a good night dude!
so what happens if you had to wet exit the fayette station rapid? can u swim that? looks scary to me, so fast and turmultuous
You could, but you would spend the majority of the rapid underwater, and would need help getting across the river left eddy line which would hold anybody out of a boat underwater for a life threatening amount of time. They teach swiftwater rescue classes on this rapid at normal levels, and have people swim it constantly, never at these water levels obviously, but it's a short rapid and as long as you could hold your breath for 20-30 seconds, you could get away with swimming it at this level. Wouldn't recommend trying it, but you could! Lmfao
You should never paddle a river in flood if you think you might swim, since on-river rescue is difficult to impossible and you may drown before you can get to a safe place.
@@johnmaxwell1750 That makes sense. I'm not a paddler, and it seems like it would be hard to know that you won't swim. Are you saying that an experienced paddler would always be able to right his boat before running out of breath even in these conditions?
@@chazott - Even very experienced boaters aren't always able to roll back up in huge whitewater after capsizing. Depends on circumstance and whether you can make your roll in sustained heavy whitewater. On my second run of the Niagara gorge I capsized early and had to hold my breath for at least 30 seconds before I could roll back up. I was flipped by a powerful eddy line and had to fight suction that nearly pulled me out of my boat. But on my first run I flipped while cresting the biggest wave but was able to roll back up in less than 10 seconds. Much better paddlers than me have died swimming in big water because they couldn't roll back up. This possibility is just a given for anyone who tries to paddle huge whitewater. Everyone should realize and accept the risks they assume when paddling big whitewater, where self rescue is the only way you are likely to survive and a swim can be fatal.
@@johnmaxwell1750 Well said! If you guy's are curious, Benny Marr gave me permission a few years back to post his solo Niagara Gorge kayak run on my channel since he only had it up on Facebook at the time. Check this out! (ruclips.net/video/eZ-nBnrQzLQ/видео.html)
What class is?
Just big water class III and IV. Most people agree that around 2 or 3 feet is the hardest level because it's a mix of big water, but still some technical maneuvering around rocks. At higher levels like this, I think it's way easier. There are some huge waves and holes, but you can see and hear them coming a mile away, and could drive a dump truck around them with how wide the river is. Definently wouldn't want to swim at this level though, would be relentless, and you would almost certainly need help getting out of the main flow and across the eddy lines.
@@tankmaster1018 I remember 3.5 feet was awesome in our 10' paddle raft and 8 feet was crazy in our 16' cataraft oar rig!
@@tankmaster1018 catched! Many thanks man!
Not something you want to swim on, very few to almost zero sideline eddies and the ones you get are rather dangerous
Need 50 feet high run that
Lol, would if I could. But also it seems like pretty much everything washes out over the 12 foot mark except for the whale hole, beury hole, and fayette station rapid itself. There's a video on here of a 12 foot run, and most of the locations in my video were there were huge waves were mostly flat at 12+ feet, even all the Keeneys and Miller's Folly
I’m just curious, what are the dangers considering the Ayer is so high? I would think rocks would really be an issue, maybe strainers/logs or dangerous currents?
It's funny because out of everything you just listed, rocks are by far the least of my worries when doing a high water run like that. The main dangers whitewater kayakers face from rocks is hitting your head or another part of your body on them while upside down after flipping, pinning your boat on them after hitting them at a bad angle, catching your feet or limbs on them if your out of your boat in a way that prevents you from washing free while water continues flowing over your head and forcing your body down (entrapment) or swimming into rocks that have a big enough space in between them to let water flow through, but not enough space for your body to wash through (sieve). So literally none of these dangers are present when the water is high, simply because the rocks are so far underwater that none of those scenarios I just listed would be able to occur. To even get deep enough to hit any rocks, you would have to be out of your boat and literally dive down deeper then would be possible with a whitewater PFD in order to even get close to the rocks forming the rapids.
It's not that rocks aren't a hazard in whitewater kayaking, they are a MAJOR hazard, just not under these high water circumstances. At water this high, the only real hazards formed by rocks is the water pouring over massive rocks, and curling back upstream. This forms gigantic holes, two of which were shown in my video at the 2:04 and 5:09 timestamp, which you would 100% swim out of if you ended up in one of them in your boat, but the river is so wide from the high water and they are so loud that you can hear them coming a half mile away, and miss them by 200 feet on either side. In a similar vein, the strainers and logs you mentioned as a potential danger aren't a factor at all since they are a hazard that occurs on the river banks when trees or branches partially fall into, or obstruct the water during a rapid in a way that's difficult to avoid. I don't think we got within 100 feet of the river banks in any of the rapids, so there would literally need to be a Redwood or Giant Sequoia down to reach far enough out into the current to be a danger to boaters. But even then, the huge power of the high water flow would pull any of those trees straight off the bank and send them floating downstream at high speed, which could be a hazard if your paddling at the highest level the river is going to max out at, when the trees are actively being pulled off the shores and you could potentially be paddling next to them or get struck by them as they make their way downstream, but this wouldn't be an issue 3 days after the peak level like when we came through since everything that got swept off the banks was already long gone.
So let's talk about the real dangers about whitewater kayaking in a river like this at a high level. Since you seem somewhat knowledgable on the topic, I'm sure you know the worst case scenario in whitewater kayaking is swimming, when you flip, can't roll the boat back up, and are forced to pull your spray skirt and exit the kayak. This happens easier then you would think in big water like this, either from continually getting knocked back over during roll attempts by big waves and reactionaries, being in an area of high aeration or boils where the support you would normally get from sweeping your paddle across the surface during the roll is almost negligible, or being upside down in an area of high hydraulic pressure that causes your skirt to pop off your cockpit rim without you pulling it (skirt implosion) Once your out of the kayak in big water conditions like this, it is a literal nightmare scenario with your only lifelines being your empty boat to hold onto to keep your head above water, and the other paddlers who you will need help from to get out of the current. By far the biggest dangers to a kayaker in these conditions are Flush Drowning, and being held underwater by eddy lines. Flush Drowning occurs when a kayaker is unable to swim out of the main flow of a rapid, and is just relentlessly battered by waves and forced underwater over and over again until they pass out not from water entering the lungs, but the inability to take a breath of air. Then once your unconscious in water like that, you actually drown unless your crew manages to get you to shore and give you rescue breathing. You ever get the shit beaten out of you by waves on the beach as a kid to the point where you are desperate for air, but keep getting knocked back underwater by the next wave everytime you try to break the surface of the water for a breath? Just imagine that happening on a continuous basis, with no way to stand up or swim out of the current since you are already exhausted from failing to roll your kayak and swimming, and you have a pretty good idea of how Flush Drowning can occur. The other danger is getting held underwater trying to swim across eddy lines. That is where the fast moving main flow hits the slower moving calm water behind obstructions like big rocks on shore, or a bend in the river that forces the main current away from the banks. Theres 2 parts in this video at 3:54 and 12:41 where I pointed out the trouble I was having paddling my kayak out of the main flow across the eddy lines. So if I was out of my kayak in water conditions and tried to actually swim across those without my boat, it would suck me about 5 feet underwater, and send me spinning and flipping parallel to the shore until the rapid itself ended completely (or didn't and kept going, see Flush Drowning) I would not be able to hold my breath long enough to survive a powerful eddy line hold down like that, even in a whitewater PFD, and especially if I was already exhausted from swimming the rapid. You would need to be holding onto the back of another kayaker's boat and have them actually paddle you over the eddy line to get out, or you would have to keep swimming until the rapid ended and the eddy line was safe to attempt to swim over again, which 95% of the time isn't going to be an option at high water levels like this with how continuous and unrelenting everything gets.
Sorry for the massive wall of text, just love having conversations like this with people who are curious about whitewater. You were completely correct in assuming a river at high water like this would have it's own unique set of hazards, they just aren't the ones you would initially imagine!
@@tankmaster1018 thanks so much, I meant to say the rocks wouldn’t really matter, but I still really appreciate all of this info. I would just imagine that there would be some trees/logs that would get stuck on the bottom and stick up but like you said, they would probably never reach the middle and once they were floating, they would be moving really fast and would have a really hard time getting caught on something. I have some experience in being on whitewater in a canoe only up to maybe class three up in Maine on the Alagash River, but I still really enjoy watching this kind of content, thanks so much for sharing.
@@tankmaster1018 Thanks for the explanation. Seriously.
@@shadowdemon13 Of course dude! Have a good day