i'll tell you how ironic he is. He talks that Patriotism is wrong because of pride involved but he himself the way he acts shows pride. English people are very proud when It comes to their history or posh royalty. Doesn't every child want to make his/her parents "proud" by their achievements? Of course they do so what's wrong with that
thanks for that. But I think what you meant with the countries point is nationalism. Nationalism is more aggressive than patriotism and is exactly over-emphasizing your own country while scoffing on others and causes hate. I don't like this either. God said "love your neighbour as yourself" but nationalists dont. patriotism is different! It's about being respectful to others while loving your country and firmly standing by it. It's like what the Bulgarians are doing right now defending their country against the refugees invasion from Turkey.
he actually says that pride implies an "inappropriate sense of achievement" and I agree with him when he states that it leads to the exclusion of people and that it has a bad conotation IN THIS CONTEXT. Like, it's okay to be proud of your ACTUAL achievements, like him being proud of debating at Oxford Union, but it makes no sense being proud of having been born in a country or having a certain ethnicity or the things your ancestors did.
Patriotism is just feeling proud of nothing or little contribution of ours. But he can take credit for most of his success so basically there is nothing wrong to be proud of himself
@@kirind.dragon1901 patriotism is feeling proud of nothing? Seriously? Patriotism is being proud of the country of your birth, it's achievements as a nation, it's standards and beliefs in the world, today or in the past.. Nothing? I think not..
@@LibraOnAmission7 english is not my native language but im pretty sure you can understand i meant it's just feeling proud of nothing ourselves has achieved in most cases. Yes we feel proud about our country and all. But as a normal man what are our contributions to be this proud. Most times patriotism is used to be proud of something that we haven't achieved ourselves.
@@kirind.dragon1901 appreciating English is not your native language the concept is simple, you say Patriotism is meaningless because you cannot feel proud of something you haven't personally participated in? What a lot of nonsense. In that case I cannot be proud of my Grand children's achievements as I didn't directly father them, teach them, influence them. They achieve on their own merit but as per your outline I cannot feel pride in this, unbelievable! This is simply a ploy by your ilk to negate an alignment to a nation in favour of this gross globalisation drive, by a sinister cabal.. I end this by saying I am and always will be proud of my country, my countrymen and will never accept this grey, creeping dystopia that is globalism..
Daniel Pride of something that you've had no effect on is something to be avoided. Pride in the country you've born in is entirely ridiculous as you've done nothing in order to deserve being born there
The opposition argument is patriotism isn't pride over something already completed, rather it's a project a nation is proud to work vigorously towards.
your right. we should hate the fact that we have it better so we should tear down society so we will become equal to 3rd world countries then no one will be lucky. also you don't "get" just because you are born in a country if all you did was sleep and breathe you would not even have food so that is just completely wrong. also not being proud of your country is to spit and ignore the sacrifices of your ancestors who sacrificed for you to be free. there is not anything stopping someone in these other countries to do the same for their offspring.
Then how is "Gay pride" accepted and celebrated? People can't be proud of their country, history and culture and they can be proud of their sexual preference? The world has gone mad.
Why not subscribe to an idea of global citizenship? It has the potential to make us more tolerant as individuals towards people of other nations/affinities and so forth. I loved his arguments.Perhaps not great as a speaker than Varun, who btw provided no solid arguments of any kind, but Matthew had some valid points.
The only way I would ever subscribe to a "Global citizenship" in terms of a OWG, I assume you mean, is that the system and leadership would be incorruptible because if it isn't then they have power over everyone and everything.. good luck with that!
It’s not a logical thing tho. I quite simply don’t want that, even tho I understand that there are strong logical arguments which do make it make sense. But I still don’t want it, Ill love my country until they bury me, and for all the time after
@@heftyalan1152It will have to happen. The only question is whether it will 50 years, 5000 years, 5000000 years. Skeptics will always exist. Let them say whatever they want to say against global citizenship. Earth is a planet. Countries r unnatural creation of human beings. Like any unnatural creations, they will also come to an end. We don't really know the time limit. 1 million year maybe 😅
+Tom Samad why draw lines in the sand(national borders) or glorify banners of certain shapes and colors, rejoice in goodness and righteousness no matter of location or identification. as a post-Anglican christian, the twenty-second of the thirty-nine articles parallels a similar kind of rejection, that [patriotism] is a fond thing, vainly invented. whether we are determinists or believe ourselves to be free agents(free will), in neither case can we ascribe the credit of others to our own pride. should we be proud that we have legs? how much more proud should we be of our genetics, our heritage, or value system? where the patriot holds pride, there should be humility, thankfulness, and unreserved love.
Nationalism is perfectly reasonable, when nations themselves are good for stability and for community. Sure you may think it irrational, but the world doesn't work on what is rational, and sure we don't choose to live in the UK, but I feel I believe in the values of Britain, and I feel that I want Britain to be maintained. If you believe in borders, you believe in the nation state, if you believe that sovereignty matters, you believe in the nation state, and if you care about the values and principles of your nation, you care about the nation state.
Those who are talking about open borders are idiots who spend more time in social media than in reality. That's why such fairy ideas can come out of their minds. Fairy lands are beautiful but they aren't real. I think you people are the delusional and cowardly versions of the ones who created empires. Their goal was similar, To make the world Britain or Mongol or Spanish without Borders.
This comment section speaks to the aggressive nature of patriotism. All I see is insults, argumenta ad hominem and people asking themselves what is wrong about pride as they call refugees invaders.
We can't always look at the worst examples of a belief like this lad says. It seems that he is identifying xenophobia, an extreme form of nationalism to the point of hatred of others. That is not patriotism. You can be patriotic for Britain, and love other countries. Patriotism is one of the many reasons we are such a developed society today. For without patriotism, I do not believe we would have the drive to better our own society, to advance it. Humans are not only driven by money, but by a desire to better our society, our nation, ahead of another nation, not at the expense of the other nation, but to propel ourselves. A clear difference is that a xenophobe would aim to better his nation at the expense of another nation. Two very different things. Patriotism is one of our strongest senses of unity and drive - you don't even have to talk about countries to prove this. This guy said he was "proud to oppose this motion". He is proud of his views, and the views of those similar to him. We are all proud of something, and for me and many patriots in Britain, we are proud of the achievements and advancements of our ancestors, and our country. Despite this, we do not ignore the bad parts of our past. But we aim to better our society, ultimately.
See how he deftly slipped in the "white patriotism" remark to conflate patriotism with racism. Throw in a touch of EDL and the odd reference to the far right and he thinks we will equate patriotism with racism. It's a bit like talking about doctors, then throw in a little Shipman and Crippen, and we will all have concerns about doctors. Really?
I am proud of the place that I choose to live because I believe in its values. There is absolutely no harm in that. I would be proud to be a part of many countries or establishment if I valued what it produced. In the place we stand up to injustice and value kindness and prosperity. And I am proud of what I can give to my community because I want it to be a better place. Of course no where is perfect and I criticise certain aspects because I wish the best for my community. I am not ashamed of any of that. So maybe I'm not proud of my country, but I am proud of people who bring joy to the world and would oppose anyone who denied others of their joy. And I can only do that within my own community.
I'm an American. I do have pride in my country and it's founding and history and what it stands for. That's doesn't mean I don't realize America has it's sins like any other nation. But to be proud and patriotic of your country's good and progressive achievements is not wrong, but highly appropriate. Also, all emotions have their positive and negative applications and consequences. This does not mean throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Oxford union debaters argue for sides and arguements they don't necessarily believe. It's literally a debating club. You don't need to take it so personally
@@alexchatter692 I used to partake in those type of debates where everyone plays devil's advocate but I just don't see the appeal of justifying something I don't agree with. Just a waste of time imo
What’s wrong with society these days? Everything is about equality and personal rights. We should be more patriotic as a country, you can’t have a better history than Britain. Hate this man
I not from Britain but I have no doubt about the greatness of your country. But the problem what did you had to do to live in Britain? Did you had to work for it? Nope, it's just luck. Thn why feel proud about something which you have not achieved on your own?
I agree that pride is illogical when you had no part in said achievement. So I say, I'm not proud to be British. Equally, I'm not ashamed of it either. It just so happened that I was born here. Same way I'm right-handed. Can you imagine being proud to be right or left-handed lol
ANYONE who opposes freedom and truth and God one nation under it etc is a socialist or communist in attitude mind and body. Capitalism is based on the means that one man has the freedom and ability to climb the ladder and not let his success be dictated by government we are facing a time. An era that thinks the government should hand out everything to them and then maybe they will get a job etc. I have been a single mother for 16 years and I have struggled so hard just to make ends meet w no child support or food stamps. I have to do it all myself. And because i am a certain race there is less available to me. I have been at this for years. I am an American citizen yet I cant get help for an American. Id get more if i didnt belong here legally! But Being Patriotic is about having a spirit of connection obligation pride and love for their country and people and show it in their character. Now Patriots are considered domestic terrorists or were labeled that at one time. If people in general would just learn to own their actions and own their own lives and responsibilities and stop blaming. There isnt anything I can stand more than hypocrisy and people who never admit when they are wrong. We are all here on this earth together and we are all doffferent. Let’s try to get along. Being a Patriot is a good thing! The government IS NOT the COUNTRY! The government can go beat feet mos the time! Lol
I also wonder how he would address the concepts of "Righteousness" and "Unrighteousness and Self-Righteousness" and "Good" and Evil" and "Moral and Immoral." The gentleman seems to be consumed with his own self-righteousness.
I wonder who will fight for you scholars without patriotism, I suppose for money. And I am sure you will come up with something if the time comes. Nationalism isn't radical nationalism or fascism that Hitler and Mussolini had. Look it up on wiki for instance. Nationalism has to do with nations and patriotism with a state, to simplify. I understand that nations are a problem for multiculti. I grew-up in time when those two words were nearly synonyms, in many countries of Europe. The way its going some nations may be on endangered species list in 50-100 years.
+mirekchance the beginning of your comment reinforced why patriotism naturally associate itself with violent heroism on command. If someone were to risk his life for a job (be it in military or civil service), I would much rather he does it for money that he can spend on himself and his family, instead of for the love of a piece of real estate, or a certain god, or an arbitrary group of individuals (majority of whom he will not know personally), in which he is assigned usually by the accident of birth.
@@yauyyb well. It is not like someone who is risking his life in a line of work for money could not be persuaded to not do that for a larger amount of money...
@@eshaansarkar2017 Fascism exalts the state above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. This applies equally to the far left and the far right
This was largely just stupid ridiculous nonsense. Firstly, he says that you must look at all sides of patriotism, same as we should look at all good and bad of internationalism, neither of which at their extremes are much good. On him spending about 3 minutes going on about Ralph Miliband, obviously that is shitty, and it was because they wanted to attack Ed with a GE coming up. On immigration, yes people should play by our basic rules. That does not mean it is a one way street, as we have to adapt to some of their cultural practices, but really if anything you have proved why the multi-cultural experiment practically always fails. Yes, patriotism implies that you think your nations values are important, because of course you would if you fucking live there. Sure morality is relative, but shockingly enough, people want to preserve the common views of morality in their country, because it could be worse if it changes. The only legitimate point he made was about war. Yes, we are commemorating our boys, because we have an emotional attachment to them in a way that we do not to a German solider, because these were people who lived similar lives to us, perhaps we even knew them. You can think that without thinking the war was a colossal mistake, and that it is horrific that so many people died. Remembrance Sunday doesn't glorify war, that is complete nonsense, what it does is to remember those who died from our nation under the auspices of protecting our nation, whether it was in vain or not. And onto progress, which is exactly why your ideas fail, because it forgets that people have things they care about that are grounded in where they live, and to go on your progressive project you would have to completely restructure our society on a theoretical understanding of the world.
I wonder how he would address the application of "Pride" to other institutions and celebrations and social and cultural movements. And I think his "skewed" view of Patriotism is wholly hateful and selfish.
He says that you shouldn't talk about patriotism without mentioning the full spectrum. Why is then talking about socialism alright not considering it's full spectrum? For example, millions dead in China and Russia as a result of socialist ideology. That's a stupid argument, life requires balance in everything and anything in excess had negative consequences.
Holy Qur'an Speaks About Particles In 1913 scientists came to know that the atom is not smallest particle but there are particles smaller than atom. Electron and proton are smaller than atom. Allah told in the Holy Qur'an 1500 years ago that He knows all particles smaller or bigger in the universe. Your comment is useless. U could not understand the main point in my article. Who can tell us 1500 years ago that there are particles smaller than atom. Only a creator can tell us this fact in 7th century. Modern science discovered this fact in 1913 only. Since Greek period till 1913 they believed that atom is the smallest particle. Who is ahead? Almighty Allah or modern science? Hope you will try to understand.This verse is a clear evidence that there is a creator who created everything smaller and bigger in this universe. Hope you will try to understand.It is in your broadest interests. Thanks
the fact that his debate is stale is really not his fault, i have no idea how i would defend anti patriotism.and Varun was kick ass, and very very close to perfect so :P
I find it hard to listen to anyone who can't even pronounce "th" properly. How hard can it be? People make fun of the Castilian Spanish lisp in "cerveza", yet Matthew Handley might mistake thought for fort, thirst for first, three for free etc . . . . . it detracts from his arguments.
Abraxas Harpocrates the Curious It can be difficult if you’ve spoke like that for your whole life. I’m having to teach myself over the last two years how to speak properly because I’ve never been corrected. Just noticed. Most people I know where I live don’t pronounce ‘th’ either
This fella is meant to be good at debating? He's done nothing but look at his script... I'm starting to think he has a bit of a twitch Varun Sivaram had this guy all day
Be patriotic or be nationalist be whatever you have a right to follow any ideology (i assume) on your land and to me if you would ask loving the land that gives me so much food and culture and rights and life, if i give a little more love is not a problem
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Moderate patriotism: I love my dad. Extreme patriotism: My Dad can kick your dad's ass.
WOW best explanation haha.......
Akash Anvekar : )
And that can be termed nationalism
so he says "pride is a dangerous motive" then says " i am proud to oppose this notion" kind of contradictory so you're still proud
Aleksandar Kanev not a fatal error
i'll tell you how ironic he is. He talks that Patriotism is wrong because of pride involved but he himself the way he acts shows pride. English people are very proud when It comes to their history or posh royalty. Doesn't every child want to make his/her parents "proud" by their achievements? Of course they do so what's wrong with that
thanks for that. But I think what you meant with the countries point is nationalism. Nationalism is more aggressive than patriotism and is exactly over-emphasizing your own country while scoffing on others and causes hate. I don't like this either. God said "love your neighbour as yourself" but nationalists dont. patriotism is different! It's about being respectful to others while loving your country and firmly standing by it. It's like what the Bulgarians are doing right now defending their country against the refugees invasion from Turkey.
he actually says that pride implies an "inappropriate sense of achievement" and I agree with him when he states that it leads to the exclusion of people and that it has a bad conotation IN THIS CONTEXT. Like, it's okay to be proud of your ACTUAL achievements, like him being proud of debating at Oxford Union, but it makes no sense being proud of having been born in a country or having a certain ethnicity or the things your ancestors did.
@@TheKokokboy Yes it is he shot his argument down in flames.
Rather Ironic how Matthew is disparaging of "Pride" in your Nation, when he is clearly very Proud of himself
Patriotism is just feeling proud of nothing or little contribution of ours. But he can take credit for most of his success so basically there is nothing wrong to be proud of himself
He can be proud of himself because what he is today is because he has achieved it in its own.
@@kirind.dragon1901 patriotism is feeling proud of nothing? Seriously? Patriotism is being proud of the country of your birth, it's achievements as a nation, it's standards and beliefs in the world, today or in the past.. Nothing? I think not..
@@LibraOnAmission7 english is not my native language but im pretty sure you can understand i meant it's just feeling proud of nothing ourselves has achieved in most cases. Yes we feel proud about our country and all. But as a normal man what are our contributions to be this proud. Most times patriotism is used to be proud of something that we haven't achieved ourselves.
@@kirind.dragon1901 appreciating English is not your native language the concept is simple, you say Patriotism is meaningless because you cannot feel proud of something you haven't personally participated in? What a lot of nonsense. In that case I cannot be proud of my Grand children's achievements as I didn't directly father them, teach them, influence them. They achieve on their own merit but as per your outline I cannot feel pride in this, unbelievable! This is simply a ploy by your ilk to negate an alignment to a nation in favour of this gross globalisation drive, by a sinister cabal.. I end this by saying I am and always will be proud of my country, my countrymen and will never accept this grey, creeping dystopia that is globalism..
"Patriotism is pride in a nation. Pride is something to be avoided."
"I'm proud to oppose patriotism."
Daniel Pride of something that you've had no effect on is something to be avoided. Pride in the country you've born in is entirely ridiculous as you've done nothing in order to deserve being born there
The opposition argument is patriotism isn't pride over something already completed, rather it's a project a nation is proud to work vigorously towards.
your right. we should hate the fact that we have it better so we should tear down society so we will become equal to 3rd world countries then no one will be lucky.
also you don't "get" just because you are born in a country if all you did was sleep and breathe you would not even have food so that is just completely wrong.
also not being proud of your country is to spit and ignore the sacrifices of your ancestors who sacrificed for you to be free. there is not anything stopping someone in these other countries to do the same for their offspring.
Kieran Griffiths country’s have different sets of culture and values that pre exist your birth you philistine.
Then how is "Gay pride" accepted and celebrated?
People can't be proud of their country, history and culture and they can be proud of their sexual preference?
The world has gone mad.
Why not subscribe to an idea of global citizenship? It has the potential to make us more tolerant as individuals towards people of other nations/affinities and so forth. I loved his arguments.Perhaps not great as a speaker than Varun, who btw provided no solid arguments of any kind, but Matthew had some valid points.
Nile Inspiration There will never be global citizenship because globalism leads to politicians like Merkel and Macron. 'Nuff said.
Not all cultures get on well. Globalism just causes more tension and fucks things up. You don't want a one world government.
The only way I would ever subscribe to a "Global citizenship" in terms of a OWG, I assume you mean, is that the system and leadership would be incorruptible because if it isn't then they have power over everyone and everything.. good luck with that!
It’s not a logical thing tho. I quite simply don’t want that, even tho I understand that there are strong logical arguments which do make it make sense. But I still don’t want it, Ill love my country until they bury me, and for all the time after
@@heftyalan1152It will have to happen. The only question is whether it will 50 years, 5000 years, 5000000 years. Skeptics will always exist. Let them say whatever they want to say against global citizenship. Earth is a planet. Countries r unnatural creation of human beings. Like any unnatural creations, they will also come to an end. We don't really know the time limit. 1 million year maybe 😅
Let's not confuse patriotism with nationalism. The former should be encouraged, while the latter should be avoided.
+Tom Samad why draw lines in the sand(national borders) or glorify banners of certain shapes and colors, rejoice in goodness and righteousness no matter of location or identification. as a post-Anglican christian, the twenty-second of the thirty-nine articles parallels a similar kind of rejection, that [patriotism] is a fond thing, vainly invented. whether we are determinists or believe ourselves to be free agents(free will), in neither case can we ascribe the credit of others to our own pride.
should we be proud that we have legs? how much more proud should we be of our genetics, our heritage, or value system? where the patriot holds pride, there should be humility, thankfulness, and unreserved love.
Neither should be supported. Support democracy, or freedom, or equality. Don't blindly support the piece of land you happened to be born on
Nationalism is perfectly reasonable, when nations themselves are good for stability and for community. Sure you may think it irrational, but the world doesn't work on what is rational, and sure we don't choose to live in the UK, but I feel I believe in the values of Britain, and I feel that I want Britain to be maintained.
If you believe in borders, you believe in the nation state, if you believe that sovereignty matters, you believe in the nation state, and if you care about the values and principles of your nation, you care about the nation state.
There's nothing wrong with Nationalism. Nationalism is prioritizing the affairs of your nation above all others. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Those who are talking about open borders are idiots who spend more time in social media than in reality.
That's why such fairy ideas can come out of their minds.
Fairy lands are beautiful but they aren't real.
I think you people are the delusional and cowardly versions of the ones who created empires.
Their goal was similar,
To make the world Britain or Mongol or Spanish without Borders.
Nice "firework/firearm" flip. The Tenchoo is strong in this one.
This comment section speaks to the aggressive nature of patriotism. All I see is insults, argumenta ad hominem and people asking themselves what is wrong about pride as they call refugees invaders.
We can't always look at the worst examples of a belief like this lad says. It seems that he is identifying xenophobia, an extreme form of nationalism to the point of hatred of others. That is not patriotism. You can be patriotic for Britain, and love other countries. Patriotism is one of the many reasons we are such a developed society today. For without patriotism, I do not believe we would have the drive to better our own society, to advance it. Humans are not only driven by money, but by a desire to better our society, our nation, ahead of another nation, not at the expense of the other nation, but to propel ourselves. A clear difference is that a xenophobe would aim to better his nation at the expense of another nation. Two very different things. Patriotism is one of our strongest senses of unity and drive - you don't even have to talk about countries to prove this. This guy said he was "proud to oppose this motion". He is proud of his views, and the views of those similar to him. We are all proud of something, and for me and many patriots in Britain, we are proud of the achievements and advancements of our ancestors, and our country. Despite this, we do not ignore the bad parts of our past. But we aim to better our society, ultimately.
Yes I agree with Matthew valid reasons that patriotism will create conflicts 👍
yep amazing debator; i wish i was a good friend of his
See how he deftly slipped in the "white patriotism" remark to conflate patriotism with racism. Throw in a touch of EDL and the odd reference to the far right and he thinks we will equate patriotism with racism.
It's a bit like talking about doctors, then throw in a little Shipman and Crippen, and we will all have concerns about doctors.
Really?
I am proud of the place that I choose to live because I believe in its values. There is absolutely no harm in that. I would be proud to be a part of many countries or establishment if I valued what it produced. In the place we stand up to injustice and value kindness and prosperity. And I am proud of what I can give to my community because I want it to be a better place. Of course no where is perfect and I criticise certain aspects because I wish the best for my community. I am not ashamed of any of that. So maybe I'm not proud of my country, but I am proud of people who bring joy to the world and would oppose anyone who denied others of their joy. And I can only do that within my own community.
I'm an American. I do have pride in my country and it's founding and history and what it stands for. That's doesn't mean I don't realize America has it's sins like any other nation. But to be proud and patriotic of your country's good and progressive achievements is not wrong, but highly appropriate. Also, all emotions have their positive and negative applications and consequences. This does not mean throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Peace be upon all those who follow righteousness till the last day. Peace be upon the truthful. Peace.
Nicely said brother.
Don’t worry Matt someone will sleep with you some day
Oxford union debaters argue for sides and arguements they don't necessarily believe. It's literally a debating club. You don't need to take it so personally
@@alexchatter692 I used to partake in those type of debates where everyone plays devil's advocate but I just don't see the appeal of justifying something I don't agree with. Just a waste of time imo
What’s wrong with society these days? Everything is about equality and personal rights. We should be more patriotic as a country, you can’t have a better history than Britain. Hate this man
I not from Britain but I have no doubt about the greatness of your country.
But the problem what did you had to do to live in Britain? Did you had to work for it? Nope, it's just luck. Thn why feel proud about something which you have not achieved on your own?
I agree that pride is illogical when you had no part in said achievement. So I say, I'm not proud to be British. Equally, I'm not ashamed of it either. It just so happened that I was born here.
Same way I'm right-handed. Can you imagine being proud to be right or left-handed lol
be patriotic not nationalist.
If you're patriotic, you are already nationalist.
Never be Hindu nationalist
@@Little-kc9pt there exists a distinction between the two.
Does pride aways have to be blind? Cause I think we are assuming this here.
Fantastic speaker. Speech well delivered.
ANYONE who opposes freedom and truth and God one nation under it etc is a socialist or communist in attitude mind and body. Capitalism is based on the means that one man has the freedom and ability to climb the ladder and not let his success be dictated by government we are facing a time. An era that thinks the government should hand out everything to them and then maybe they will get a job etc. I have been a single mother for 16 years and I have struggled so hard just to make ends meet w no child support or food stamps. I have to do it all myself. And because i am a certain race there is less available to me. I have been at this for years. I am an American citizen yet I cant get help for an American. Id get more if i didnt belong here legally!
But Being Patriotic is about having a spirit of connection obligation pride and love for their country and people and show it in their character. Now Patriots are considered domestic terrorists or were labeled that at one time. If people in general would just learn to own their actions and own their own lives and responsibilities and stop blaming. There isnt anything I can stand more than hypocrisy and people who never admit when they are wrong. We are all here on this earth together and we are all doffferent. Let’s try to get along. Being a Patriot is a good thing! The government IS NOT the COUNTRY! The government can go beat feet mos the time! Lol
Well done Mathew!
this guy's a berk
thats why he was in semi finals for world debate right?
Ok Globie
Pride and vanity is talking
I also wonder how he would address the concepts of "Righteousness" and "Unrighteousness and Self-Righteousness" and "Good" and Evil" and "Moral and Immoral." The gentleman seems to be consumed with his own self-righteousness.
I wonder who will fight for you scholars without patriotism, I suppose for money. And I am sure you will come up with something if the time comes.
Nationalism isn't radical nationalism or fascism that Hitler and Mussolini had. Look it up on wiki for instance. Nationalism has to do with nations and patriotism with a state, to simplify. I understand that nations are a problem for multiculti. I grew-up in time when those two words were nearly synonyms, in many countries of Europe. The way its going some nations may be on endangered species list in 50-100 years.
+mirekchance the beginning of your comment reinforced why patriotism naturally associate itself with violent heroism on command. If someone were to risk his life for a job (be it in military or civil service), I would much rather he does it for money that he can spend on himself and his family, instead of for the love of a piece of real estate, or a certain god, or an arbitrary group of individuals (majority of whom he will not know personally), in which he is assigned usually by the accident of birth.
@@yauyyb well. It is not like someone who is risking his life in a line of work for money could not be persuaded to not do that for a larger amount of money...
Nationalism is just a stepping stone for Fascism
@@eshaansarkar2017 Fascism exalts the state above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
This applies equally to the far left and the far right
says he going to talk about why he doesn't like patriotism....talks about nationalism...
As he said patriotism can turn into nationalism
sure, but he really just jumped the gun..
darkrovalver Hardly, its a debate with a short speaking times and he wants to win.
patriots in these comments *sigh*
This was largely just stupid ridiculous nonsense.
Firstly, he says that you must look at all sides of patriotism, same as we should look at all good and bad of internationalism, neither of which at their extremes are much good.
On him spending about 3 minutes going on about Ralph Miliband, obviously that is shitty, and it was because they wanted to attack Ed with a GE coming up.
On immigration, yes people should play by our basic rules. That does not mean it is a one way street, as we have to adapt to some of their cultural practices, but really if anything you have proved why the multi-cultural experiment practically always fails.
Yes, patriotism implies that you think your nations values are important, because of course you would if you fucking live there. Sure morality is relative, but shockingly enough, people want to preserve the common views of morality in their country, because it could be worse if it changes.
The only legitimate point he made was about war.
Yes, we are commemorating our boys, because we have an emotional attachment to them in a way that we do not to a German solider, because these were people who lived similar lives to us, perhaps we even knew them. You can think that without thinking the war was a colossal mistake, and that it is horrific that so many people died. Remembrance Sunday doesn't glorify war, that is complete nonsense, what it does is to remember those who died from our nation under the auspices of protecting our nation, whether it was in vain or not.
And onto progress, which is exactly why your ideas fail, because it forgets that people have things they care about that are grounded in where they live, and to go on your progressive project you would have to completely restructure our society on a theoretical understanding of the world.
I wonder how he would address the application of "Pride" to other institutions and celebrations and social and cultural movements. And I think his "skewed" view of Patriotism is wholly hateful and selfish.
He says that you shouldn't talk about patriotism without mentioning the full spectrum. Why is then talking about socialism alright not considering it's full spectrum? For example, millions dead in China and Russia as a result of socialist ideology. That's a stupid argument, life requires balance in everything and anything in excess had negative consequences.
Holy Qur'an Speaks
About Particles
In 1913 scientists came to know that the atom is not smallest particle but there are particles smaller than atom. Electron and proton are smaller than atom.
Allah told in the Holy Qur'an 1500 years ago that He knows all particles smaller or bigger in the universe.
Your comment is useless. U could not understand the main point in my article. Who can tell us 1500 years ago that there are particles smaller than atom. Only a creator can tell us this fact in 7th century.
Modern science discovered this fact in 1913 only. Since Greek period till 1913 they believed that atom is the
smallest particle.
Who is ahead? Almighty Allah or
modern science?
Hope you will try to understand.This verse is a clear evidence that there is a creator who created everything smaller and bigger in this universe.
Hope you will try to understand.It is in your broadest interests.
Thanks
MURICA 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
the fact that his debate is stale is really not his fault, i have no idea how i would defend anti patriotism.and Varun was kick ass, and very very close to perfect so :P
One of the best speeches I've heard in a long time. Well done.
Bellend
Perfectly said.
I find it hard to listen to anyone who can't even pronounce "th" properly. How hard can it be? People make fun of the Castilian Spanish lisp in "cerveza", yet Matthew Handley might mistake thought for fort, thirst for first, three for free etc . . . . . it detracts from his arguments.
Abraxas Harpocrates the Curious
It can be difficult if you’ve spoke like that for your whole life. I’m having to teach myself over the last two years how to speak properly because I’ve never been corrected. Just noticed. Most people I know where I live don’t pronounce ‘th’ either
What accent does he have ?
112Aii northern England I believe
nope its south east England.
yas666eer Definitely not. He is northern, Merseyside would be my guess
Muslim hai ham..watan hai sara jahan hamara
I an muslim and against patriotism
There is a similar qoute in the Rig Veda too.
This fella is meant to be good at debating? He's done nothing but look at his script... I'm starting to think he has a bit of a twitch
Varun Sivaram had this guy all day
Be patriotic or be nationalist be whatever you have a right to follow any ideology (i assume) on your land and to me if you would ask loving the land that gives me so much food and culture and rights and life, if i give a little more love is not a problem
What a bellend
What accent does he have ?
Liverpudlian
Council estate