Analyzing ancient texts using linguistics and other methods has always been a dream project of mine (atleast for the last 15 years). But this materialistic world makes such a task hard to accomplish. Shrikanth Talagiri is doing exactly what I wanted to do. Using available information to fit the puzzle. I will read your books, some day.
Talagheri ki used to be a bank clerk. The mainstream academia ignores him as a former bank clerk produces better research than these “eminent” intellectuals.
Encyclopaedic insights - he may just have a crystal ball that spans space/time. I hope our Indian billionaires and millionaires consider endowing Indian Universities to create Chairs for such pathbreaking independent researchers/ scholars.
Indra worship is still prevalent among Haryana. Many people still have their names as "inder". Old haryana was upto Mathura, agra. Haryana name contains name of "Hari" means Krishna and "yana" means Adobe. Ofcourse the capital was Indraprastha
RIGVEDA has more than 165 references to sea faring by vedic rishis. How can Central Asians be talking about sea faring in prehistoric times when thay were supposed to have been in central Asia or Southern Europe.
Srikanth Talageri Sir, lots of respect for you... You are a jem. The hard work you have put in is just beyond my imagination. A true inspiration. Thank you Sir.
Someone should introduce data science and excel to Srikant ji. I think data science and excel software can be very powerful in his analysis of linguistics and numbers of different languages.
The guest here is a continuation of the Western indology focus of history centricism. Recently heard the importance of Vedas from and dick perspective from a Vedic scholar, where in the importance of the sentence was based on the utility from an individual upliftment rather than establishing the domination of a particular tribe. So it was utility centricism vs historic centricism.
Shrikant sir your example of Night and Ratri is very illustrative. But we, who are your avid follows to learn more and more, it will be nice if you could give some more such similar examples
No. We probably will have all the pieces of DNA to construct a Vishwamitra's DNA but we don't know his DNA so we won't be able to create how Vishwamitra will looked. Also there are several gotras that have originated with Vishwamitra, for example Kaushik gotra is also line of Vishwamitra.
It's between baltoslavic languages and Iranian. Through the rule of the iranian speaking sakas, avars etc in the Ukrainian region for hundreds of years, that is how you see the extra closeness of balto slavic with indo Iranian branch.
The internal chronology makes sense. Does it mean the entire Indus -Valley area is RigVedic or was there a difference in language even within IVC. Also, does that mean Mahabharata happened before the latest book on Rig Veda was composed ? . It would make more sense because its Vyasa who re-compiled the 4 vedas and he is also composed on the 'Jaya ' epic inside Mahabharata .
@@ZZz-kf4oy If the spoked wheel has not been invented in 3000 BC, then Mahabharata cannot happen in 3000 BC. Mahabharata is after the Mittani expansion.
sanch Sanchayan how do you know spoked wheel was not invented by 3000 bc? What is the Mittani expansion? It’s not that the people went out of India to the become the mittani. It’s that the mittani people adopted India thought and philosophy. Similar to how south east India had adopted Indian philosophy in the 1000s AD era.
Mahabharat by all means is post-vedic, the Vyasa story like many others is an attempt to recalibrate the timeline and give it authenticity. Mahabharata or anything similar to that doesn't seem to have happened anytime before 1500 BC
@Devvrat Mishra Yeah true, but I am still unable to understand the temporal distance between Ram and Sudas, Kurus are clearly a latest, but if we think of Sudas as Purus and Rama as Ikshvaku, and purus to be the creator of Vedas, how was the centre stage shifted to a non-puru idol? And then the centre of focus shifts back to the purus in Mahabharata. It think it is about time that the Harappan seals are deciphered, its a horde of knowledge lying in plain sight.
@The Carvaka Podcast - You mentioned comments about chariots. I think you missed a fundamental part, i.e., Ram's father is "Dashrath," i.e., literally 10 chariots or owner of 10 chariots. So doesn't make sense that they will interpolate that part.
This is precisely the example I have given many times in private conversations and correspondence to illustrate the extent to which the Valmiki Ramayana as we have it today has been innovated with words and ideas prevalent in post-Mauryan times. In the Puranic lists also, many personal names with ratha and ashva are given from the earliest period. Which is why I try to avoid bringing in the Puranas and Epics into public discussions on Vedic history. It can bring an unnecessary element of annoyance and bewilderment in respect of long-accepted ideas, in this case the very name of Rama's father. We should distinguish between our appreciation of our rich lore, and serious historical study. Both have their own space. We can continue to treat Dasaratha as the actual name of Rama's father, or even appreciate the poetic sense in the scene in the film "Sampoorna Ramayana" where Rama and Sita see each other in a sitaphal and ramphal respectively, without applying historical logic to it. But, it has no place in serious historical analysis and study.
@@sgtalageri Got you. Interesting. Tangential questions 1. What are your thoughts on Kashyap being a name of Caspian Sages and mentions of Uttarakuru as Deva-Kshetra - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttarakuru?wprov=sfla1 Is this also purely Puranic or could this be the mythic homeland? 2. Is it possible that the tribal offshoots of Yayati spread and reconnected i.e. we know that the Macedonians came in post Buddha but is it possible that the Ionians (Yavanas) and Anus also came back causing the stark difference between old & new languages in the Rigved? 3. The Mahabharat mentions the Purus hatred towards Nagas and driving them to Patal (down), completely wiping them off in northwest India. Are these not signs of genocides by Vedic culture regardless of whether they are native or foreign to India?
@@PramathMalik about nagas and purus you mentioned it was a tribal rivalry which is common in every tribal society around the world hindus are not exception . And there is not a single civilization in the world who did not have killing and massacred this over idealistic view of hindus are no unrealistic and unpractical.
@@PramathMalikuttarakuru was probably the homeland of the chandravanshi lineage. That would explain how this so called steppe DNA is recorded in Indians and why it's highest in jats, ror and Brahmins. The Brahmins with highest steppe DNA are probably vishvamitra descendents.
Theoretically, the vedas are excellent. However the younger gen would like to understand how vedas impacts their challenges in life and education/ jobs. One of my friend has raised the query, can vedas change my prospective towards life and more.
yes... it can lay foundations for the history and culture which will make us grounded, rather than being confused between with inferiority and superiority narratives.
@@vve2059 debate should happen and orthodox believers are welcome to participate. The narrative so far has been hostile ao some rigidity and resistance is expected. I think many will join and once who wont cant be helped.
For your purposes I think the Geeta would be much more relevant. The Vedas are way more important for historical or mythological studies, although of course they do have philosophical value too. Also not everything has to have a "practical use" or improve your standing in the Dunya. The Vedas or the Upnishads are the kinds of texts that aren't really "needed" by most men to be understood, but the kind of people who are curious or have a philosophical bent, for them these books are treasure troves of knowledge. Even in the ancient period of course the Vedas and the Upanishads weren't common knowledge, that would be the Shastras. Kind of a wierd thing in the modern age where people think expect relgious texts to improve their material standing, these are for spiritual needs, and so they aren't for everyone, because not everyone has the spiritual yearning.
@Harsha G please understand the difference between religion and dharma. Synonym for religion in hindi is pant , not dharma... The oxthodoxies need to engages on the basis of dharma, not religion.
Since all mankind come from either of the 3 sons of Noah ( assuming he is Rishabha deva) , who were split at the Tower of Babel into 70 nations with land allocated to each of them, makes sense people spread to the ends of the earth thereon.
@@ZZz-kf4oy was showing how different civilization at the Tower of Babel were given their own territory , which explains how the line of shem( Noah son) and his descendants would have moved to India Just shared a thought as you asked about the out of India theory .
@Tt t as far as I know the descendants of the 3 sons of Noah were given their own territories. But greed would have pushed man to encroach other’s territory. Hence could have moved around. I have not studied the Genesis 10, table of nations and their migration. So not able to give you exact answer.
@Chitragupta we know we come from parents who each have a set of parents back to the first set of parents . I haven’t found any book that talks about our forefathers. Most talk about evolution from apes or water etc.The Bible tells us that mankind was in Adam in seed form, and the generations spread across the world through the 3 sons of Noah who were given territory . The table of nations has details surrounding the movement of people around.
But Sir in one of your articles you have shown that Indo-Aryans moved from east to west - east meaning as far as Ganga Jamuna area to Punjab & further west. But now you say that Haryana Punjab were the areas when old books were composed. This position is contradictory, is it not? Will you please explain? Or are you revising your earlier findings?
send him a mic or ask him to use old Nokia phone earphones. do a phone conversation because voice is everything not visual unless he has some slideshow to present.
Vedic people were fish eating Brahmins who lived by river saraswati and migrated to bengal and west coast after the river dried up they were tribes of Indus Valley and are known as saraswats as Mr talagiri is he should speak more on origin of saraswat and Indus Valley
Aryans came from the banks of Sarasvati River and Sapta Sindu river present in Pakistan. In 2022 there was a deluge in that area in Pakistan. Because of such deluge in Vedic period, Aryans split into two groups. One migrated to plains of India and the other group went to Babel in Iraq and built Tower of Babel, for which they were cursed by the Lord.
"The time of the composition of the Rgveda was approximately between fifteen thousand years ago and ten thousand years ago, that of the Yajurveda between ten thousand years ago and seven thousand years ago, and that of the Atharvaveda between seven thousand years ago and five thousand years ago. The Sámaveda is not a Veda at all. The word sáma means “song”. The Sámaveda was made later on from the music portions of the three Vedas, that is, the Sámaveda is found within the Rgveda, Yajurveda and Atharvaveda." - PR Sarkar in his book Shabda Cayaniká Part 2
The oldest portion of the Vedas, that is, the Rgveda, was composed outside India. The remaining portions, that is, the Yajurveda and Atharvaveda, were partly Indian and partly non-Indian. Sámaveda is not a separate Veda by itself but is the compilation of the lyrical and musical portions of the different Vedas. So only the Rgveda can be regarded as an ancient relic of the non-Indian Aryan civilization. The Yajurveda was composed in Iran, Afghanistan, northwest India and certain parts of what is modern Russia, so it cannot be called entirely non-Indian, particularly since Afghanistan (Gándhár) and certain parts of Russia were regarded as part of India at that time. The original Rgvedic civilization belonged, in spirit and language, to the non-Indian Aryans. However, the Yajurveda was composed by a particular branch of the Vedic Aryans who, when the Aryans later began to spread out in search of food (especially wheat), migrated to India via Iran (Áryańya Vraja) and Afghanistan. When we say “Indo-Aryan civilization”, we basically mean the civilization of these people. These nomadic Aryans, on coming in contact with the different groups of people of Iran, Afghanistan and northwest India, took up farming and developed the techniques of strategic warfare. The impact of this new mindset bred in them, to some extent, a refined intelligence. In the beginning, during the Rgvedic era, the cattle-rearing Aryans were only acquainted with barley and a few other crops. After they came to the present Iran, they learned to cultivate wheat and, to some extent, rice. The more they progressed on their march, the more they came to realize the importance of growing different crops. Still, their staple was generally barley. They learned wheat cultivation from the Asuras, the indigenous natives of Iran. Though they became acquainted with paddy, or briihi (briihi → riihi → rihi → risi → “rice”, as in modern English), they did not cultivate it extensively. They learned the use of boiled rice in India. The Yajurvedic era saw the all-round development of these people, and the resultant development of the Brahmaváda of the Yajurveda - the doctrine of monotheism. During this era not only was there a noticeable intellectual development among the general mass of the Aryans; among the munis [intellectuals or seers] and the rśis, philosophy and spirituality also attained a brilliant height of expression. The Brahmaváda of the Yajurveda was a lot deeper and clearer than that of the Rgveda. The Atharvaveda was initially composed in India. During the composition of this Veda, the Aryans came in close contact with the non-Aryans, resulting in an exchange of thought between the two. The Tantra of the non-Aryans had a marked influence on the Atharvaveda. Being non-Aryan, the Atharvaveda cannot be regarded as a representation of Aryan civilization. In the subtle philosophy of the Atharvaveda, particularly of the Nrsiḿha Tápańiiya Shruti, there is a far greater influence of the non-Aryan Tantra than of the Aryan Veda. -- PR Sarkar in his book Tantra and Indo-Aryan Civilization
Do you think Ayodhya is a Historical city? The city has historically been called Saket. Couldn't Ikshawaku dynasty in itself be a mythical dynasty I mean Mandhaata supported gods in their war how do you see it
Hittites and mittani people was non indo European people know as hurrian . According to indo European migration support indo aryans Noble Replaced hurrian ruler class and mixed with them and almost lost his real identity
AIT has been ejected by most scholars around the world due to lack of evidence. AMT (i.e. Aryans gradually migrated to the subcontinent; doesn't talk about invasions) is accepted nowadays. It doesn't make sense that PIE people moved out of the subcontinent. Why on earth would anyone leave a nice and comfortable place and move towards harsh lands of Iran and Afghanistan and continue their journey forward? Also, how can one explain the existence of two other language families (distinct from Indo-Aryan): Indo-Austronesian (eg.: Santhali) and Dravidian. (Sino-Tibetan languages only exist in the Himalayan regions, that's why I left the family out).
It’s quite possible (in fact, absolutely true) that Dravidians were completely different. But Dravidians belong to the southern parts of the landmass whereas Rig Veda and this video only talk about the area to the northwest, that too only a small part. He even mentions that Ikshvakus are different from Purus. So one cannot use the fact that someone (else) is a native of an area south of a landmass to disprove the nativity of someone who resides north.
People migrate for all sorts of reasons. out of India is more plausible of a theory than ait and Amt. Why do people move out of India for the much colder North America or Europe in today’s age?
rik 09 we need to get a guru to make RUclips videos. This knowledge can’t be passed down from person to person anymore, as it is a very slow method of knowledge transfer. Look at modern science, which works by publishing in journals. India Brahmins should change the method of their knowledge transfer, if they want this knowledge to survive in the modern age. Otherwise, in this materialistic world, I don’t see this knowledge surviving for another 3 generations.
@@ZZz-kf4oy Actually there are many such RUclips videos discussing our scriptures in detail by those who belong to Guru Sishya parampara. But few things can't be dissipated to everyone alike. Because there is an issue of Adhikaar. I know it sounds controversial but every kind of knowledge is not for everyone. Only those people who are eligible to receive that knowledge qualify to get it. This test of eligibility can't be ensured in youtube or social media. Because knowledge and power in wrong and inefficient hands can cause problems too. So whereas we must promote the knowledge for everyone's welfare in social media, few things should also be kept confidential and restricted to eligible people.
rik 09 I have heard this excuse of “Adhikar” and “eligibility” and it is a flawed excuse. How is it that anyone born into a Brahmin family have the Adhikar and eligibility to gain that knowledge, while anyone born outside must go though a series of tests to prove themselves? If you want your knowledge to survive into the future, you must change your ways of knowledge transfer. Otherwise, that knowledge may be lost forever. You may have that knowledge, you may pass it onto your kids and afew others whom you deem to have the “Adhikar”. But in afew generations, that knowledge will be lost. Because materialism is going to sweep the Indian lands as it has done outside of India. Money will only remain the goal of all, even for those Brahmins who have the “Adhikar” by their birth. I don’t really care about the caste or verna angle in this. My only concern is that knowledge might be lost if you guys don’t change your ways. And that knowledge lost is the worst crime possible because it will likely take another thousands of years for humanity to ‘rediscover’ that knowledge.
@@ZZz-kf4oy I am not talking about caste or varna here. I am just saying that if I don't have the courage to use gun, there is no point of someone providing me a gun. I understand ur concern and I share that as well about knowledge getting lost. But what is the use of the knowledge if it is going to be misused. I recently came across a youtube video where some indian is talking rubbish about upanishad calling it a sex manual and what not. I was very amazed. So the thing is that one should be eligible for that knowledge. Otherwise just preserving it for the sake of preservation can be done by many modern methods too. But just like we need a Guru and not just scriptures we also need eligible people for keeping the parampara alive.
rik 09 Problem I have is that a guru will teach his children. Without doing any eligibility test. On the other hand, the same guru will never likely share that knowledge outside his family or group of followers. What if those children or followers grow up and misuse the knowledge? Because the selection process is flawed and favours nepotism, I propose to make that knowledge open source. At times I think about the centuries of knowledge and books that are lost (not only to invasions) but also because selfish people want to keep the knowledge within their family/group and not share it with the world.
Can't understand the insistence on the Rg Veda being "family books", even if these family books are compiled together as there is consistency in the flow. But these are compilations. If a song attributed to Angirasa is in a Vishwamitra "family book" maybe it was part of the family collection, or made a part of the compilation by Veda Vyasa, who we now can reasonably assert, is of the 5th millennium BCE, for good reason? Why does Talageri throw his weight behind the findings of western linguists or indologists who know little about our history or refuse to acknowledge it? Why bring the later Rg Veda books to the 1500 BCE period, in line with the colonial Aryan Invasion myths? And who says there are no horses in India in the 12th millennium BCE Ramayana period? When did, for example, Dasaratha given Keikeyi her 2 promises and what was she doing at the time? What is the ashwamedha yajna in the Ramayana era? Does Talageri think the Mahabharata took place "at the end of the Rg Vedic period"? And since he asserts the later books are of the period between 2000-1000 BCE, it would mean the Mahabharata was around 1000 BCE? Serious flaws!
Family books are from 2 to 7 Mandalas,Sir. Also,in avademic research,it does not work by saying that "they do not understand our culture". The Westerners did not even understand the culture of Iranians but they did determine that they originate from the Steppes. Any academic research should be done without any preconceived opinions,and the Westerners do produce tangible results,which even though grudgingly has to be accepted,Sir.
@@adityanawani8134 my reason is that Veda is entirely about the mind, so where did these Indologists find history in it, other than to support the colonial narrative of "Aryan Invasions"? And every word they have translated to a "tribe or race or a noun (names)", like anu, druhyu, aja, sigru, sambara, parasara, vasista, divodasa, indra, yaksu, soma are generic terms for some aspect of the mind or analogies like vayu, indra, soma. And dasarajne is not ten kings, it is the 10 forms of Agni. So many mistakes that the translations are useless. Colonial indologists like Griffith were merely translating the Veda to create the evidence of Aryan invasions in our texts. They should have used itihasa texts, but Veda was convenient, apparently. And to a practitioner, the Veda is just a roadmap to the divine, the ultimate reality, entirely a spiritual, metaphysical treatise.
As a religious belief you are free to believe Vedas are apaurusheya ramayan happened 10,000 years ago everything there is in the world it's given by india but unfortunately science doesn't work on your beliefs you need hard facts and evidences that's none of you have. Pyramids are 5000 years old globeckli tepe is 8000 years old but you don't find any evidences which is even close to that in India. Talegiri is true scholer who is proving that the clear similarities between Sanskrit and European languages are coming from Sanskrit and it's indeed out of India maigration not Aryan invasion. So sorry that he cannot prove it happened 10k or 50k years ago as per your wish.
@@gagadonim3354 These are not beliefs. They are historical records, that the West was too scared to touch, and called them a myth since the events recorded had far greater antiquity than the creation date in the Bible.The Indian civilization, as per records available, is conservatively, 100,000 years or more. Which makes every other civilization find its roots, its religions, its languages, its math and the sciences and its diverse cultures here in India. But then, you don't have to worry about this. Wait for the evidence.
What matters for spirituality? Chronology or teaching? As long as moral of the story , objectives are the same, who cares for chronology? Chronology and literal word by word meaning is style of lakeer ke fakeer chela's of illegal arab tribal Baba's... How can someone taking Charvak Rishi tike can act so lakeer ka fakeer unless working on some agenda of gangs of arab desert Baba's... Jerusalem to MeccA..
The Sarasvati river is shown in the RigVeda as a mighty river, which was the case atleast 17000 years from now. Look at the hydrology studies done on Saraswati paleo-channel. How can the Vedas be 2500 years old? This Talagiri dude is just recycling the same old bibliographic geology and timelines proposed by the British 😂😂 No wonder nobody takes him seriously 😂😂
there is a difference blw composing and inventing , according our literature vedas were composed by veda vyas ( he wrote the information which has been passed down since generationsit down on to him ) so yeah vedas were composed during the mahabharat era , and it could even be 2500 k bce , but when first rig veda is recited is unknown , nobody can find it , it can be 3k bce or 10k bce or even 24k bce or even to the far extent 72k bce
Respect to Shrikant Talageriji for doing such through work.
Looks like the charvak is the most dilligent warrior for Hinduism! Thank you for this discussion, I will surely read this book when I can!
Hindus have the most patriotic nirishwarvadis: Savarkar, Kushal, Anand Ranganathan etc.
@@luvsuneja add abhijit iyer mitra to the fore as well
J Sai Deepak have more deep knowledge than this but no offense
Analyzing ancient texts using linguistics and other methods has always been a dream project of mine (atleast for the last 15 years). But this materialistic world makes such a task hard to accomplish. Shrikanth Talagiri is doing exactly what I wanted to do. Using available information to fit the puzzle.
I will read your books, some day.
Me too man, me too. Least we can do is to try to read the books and the texts as we get time, otherwise tomorrow never comes.
Sebuktegin finding time for that is also hard.
Talagheri ki used to be a bank clerk. The mainstream academia ignores him as a former bank clerk produces better research than these “eminent” intellectuals.
Encyclopaedic insights - he may just have a crystal ball that spans space/time. I hope our Indian billionaires and millionaires consider endowing Indian Universities to create Chairs for such pathbreaking independent researchers/ scholars.
Indra worship is still prevalent among Haryana. Many people still have their names as "inder". Old haryana was upto Mathura, agra.
Haryana name contains name of "Hari" means Krishna and "yana" means Adobe. Ofcourse the capital was Indraprastha
Even Punjabi and rajasthani have name like inderjeet and inderveer inderpreet like name
True
RIGVEDA has more than 165 references to sea faring by vedic rishis. How can Central Asians be talking about sea faring in prehistoric times when thay were supposed to have been in central Asia or Southern Europe.
Shrikant ji is a living encyclopaedia on RIG VEDA and Aryan Invasion Theory it seems. 😎
So, is Aryan invasion true or not (according to him)
Luv Dwivedi he is for an out-of-India theory, which is probably the truth.
He is for migration not invasion. Also he talks on people gone out of this land. See his other videos on this channel.
@@bhnuc There was central Asian migration but Sanskrit existed before that. Hence, Aryas were already native.
Guys there were both.....dravidian into west way before what they call indo European...and dna could prove it.......so its both
Hats of to Shrikant Talageri ji... 🙏
Srikanth Talageri Sir, lots of respect for you... You are a jem.
The hard work you have put in is just beyond my imagination.
A true inspiration.
Thank you Sir.
So this is basically a 1.5 hr video saying *Aap chronology samjhiye!*
😅
If the Rig Veda was completed by 2.5k BCE, when did the Mahabharat War occur? What about the 3102-BCE start of the Kali Era?
1793 bc
Just mind blown... Will get this for my brother who is studying sanskrit
salute to shrikant for his efforts
Namastas Srikanth Talageriji
Great work Shrikant Talageri ji.
Someone should introduce data science and excel to Srikant ji. I think data science and excel software can be very powerful in his analysis of linguistics and numbers of different languages.
I did offer once.
9:34 ur spoked wheel argument is a CIRCULAR EVIDENCE!! 🤣🤣🤣
The guest here is a continuation of the Western indology focus of history centricism.
Recently heard the importance of Vedas from and dick perspective from a Vedic scholar, where in the importance of the sentence was based on the utility from an individual upliftment rather than establishing the domination of a particular tribe. So it was utility centricism vs historic centricism.
landed here while trying 2 make sense of d vedas ❤️
Wonderful discussion 👏
Good topic, interesting, keep bringing such topics.
Shrikant ji is 🙏🙏
Shrikant sir your example of Night and Ratri is very illustrative. But we, who are your avid follows to learn more and more, it will be nice if you could give some more such similar examples
Why don't you read his books and blogs /
Female in Vedic Sanskrit is gna(Greek:Gyno).
@@indravrtrahaana763 makes me mad kind of....some eastern European languages are closer in every way to sanscrit.....:(
To be in Raj....in old Russian
Means ..grrr can't even translate it
It means to go into a state of being
Superb.....just to go into
A Raj......
@@indravrtrahaana763
Lol and in slavik its ona female
From gna.....some used vona
If we collect dna of all VISHWAMITRA gotra people can we recreate how VISHWAMITRA looked in the past?
No. We probably will have all the pieces of DNA to construct a Vishwamitra's DNA but we don't know his DNA so we won't be able to create how Vishwamitra will looked. Also there are several gotras that have originated with Vishwamitra, for example Kaushik gotra is also line of Vishwamitra.
That's not how DNA works. If you find all the letters of English, you can't make a dictionary.
But it’s a good idea to perform DNA analysis on Gotras.
Gotras are not scientific at all. They are just randomly given or supposed by group.
Parigter has shown that the oldest hymns ĥad been chanted near ayodha and in gujarat
excellent
Where can I find a copy of Rig Veda's history?
Good one sir. One question though, how do we explain striking similarity between languages like Lithuanian and Sanskrit?
It's between baltoslavic languages and Iranian. Through the rule of the iranian speaking sakas, avars etc in the Ukrainian region for hundreds of years, that is how you see the extra closeness of balto slavic with indo Iranian branch.
I guess my question is how do you determine the direction of movement of people.
@@anyakosta364 You realise old Avestan (Iranian) was the closest language to Sanskrit?
@@sandy666ificationthey were nomads so they could just go anywhere
The internal chronology makes sense. Does it mean the entire Indus -Valley area is RigVedic or was there a difference in language even within IVC. Also, does that mean Mahabharata happened before the latest book on Rig Veda was composed ? . It would make more sense because its Vyasa who re-compiled the 4 vedas and he is also composed on the 'Jaya ' epic inside Mahabharata .
sanch Sanchayan MAHABHARAT happened in 3000 BC in my opinion. Veda are older than that.
@@ZZz-kf4oy If the spoked wheel has not been invented in 3000 BC, then Mahabharata cannot happen in 3000 BC. Mahabharata is after the Mittani expansion.
sanch Sanchayan how do you know spoked wheel was not invented by 3000 bc? What is the Mittani expansion?
It’s not that the people went out of India to the become the mittani. It’s that the mittani people adopted India thought and philosophy. Similar to how south east India had adopted Indian philosophy in the 1000s AD era.
Mahabharat by all means is post-vedic, the Vyasa story like many others is an attempt to recalibrate the timeline and give it authenticity. Mahabharata or anything similar to that doesn't seem to have happened anytime before 1500 BC
@Devvrat Mishra Yeah true, but I am still unable to understand the temporal distance between Ram and Sudas, Kurus are clearly a latest, but if we think of Sudas as Purus and Rama as Ikshvaku, and purus to be the creator of Vedas, how was the centre stage shifted to a non-puru idol? And then the centre of focus shifts back to the purus in Mahabharata. It think it is about time that the Harappan seals are deciphered, its a horde of knowledge lying in plain sight.
@The Carvaka Podcast - You mentioned comments about chariots. I think you missed a fundamental part, i.e., Ram's father is "Dashrath," i.e., literally 10 chariots or owner of 10 chariots. So doesn't make sense that they will interpolate that part.
This is precisely the example I have given many times in private conversations and correspondence to illustrate the extent to which the Valmiki Ramayana as we have it today has been innovated with words and ideas prevalent in post-Mauryan times. In the Puranic lists also, many personal names with ratha and ashva are given from the earliest period. Which is why I try to avoid bringing in the Puranas and Epics into public discussions on Vedic history. It can bring an unnecessary element of annoyance and bewilderment in respect of long-accepted ideas, in this case the very name of Rama's father. We should distinguish between our appreciation of our rich lore, and serious historical study. Both have their own space. We can continue to treat Dasaratha as the actual name of Rama's father, or even appreciate the poetic sense in the scene in the film "Sampoorna Ramayana" where Rama and Sita see each other in a sitaphal and ramphal respectively, without applying historical logic to it. But, it has no place in serious historical analysis and study.
@@sgtalageri Got you. Interesting.
Tangential questions
1. What are your thoughts on Kashyap being a name of Caspian Sages and mentions of Uttarakuru as Deva-Kshetra - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttarakuru?wprov=sfla1
Is this also purely Puranic or could this be the mythic homeland?
2. Is it possible that the tribal offshoots of Yayati spread and reconnected i.e. we know that the Macedonians came in post Buddha but is it possible that the Ionians (Yavanas) and Anus also came back causing the stark difference between old & new languages in the Rigved?
3. The Mahabharat mentions the Purus hatred towards Nagas and driving them to Patal (down), completely wiping them off in northwest India. Are these not signs of genocides by Vedic culture regardless of whether they are native or foreign to India?
@@PramathMalik about nagas and purus you mentioned it was a tribal rivalry which is common in every tribal society around the world hindus are not exception . And there is not a single civilization in the world who did not have killing and massacred this over idealistic view of hindus are no unrealistic and unpractical.
@@PramathMalikuttarakuru was probably the homeland of the chandravanshi lineage. That would explain how this so called steppe DNA is recorded in Indians and why it's highest in jats, ror and Brahmins. The Brahmins with highest steppe DNA are probably vishvamitra descendents.
Theoretically, the vedas are excellent. However the younger gen would like to understand how vedas impacts their challenges in life and education/ jobs.
One of my friend has raised the query, can vedas change my prospective towards life and more.
yes... it can lay foundations for the history and culture which will make us grounded, rather than being confused between with inferiority and superiority narratives.
Problem is with orthodox hindus that think everything related to hinduism and vedas is spiritual
@@vve2059 debate should happen and orthodox believers are welcome to participate. The narrative so far has been hostile ao some rigidity and resistance is expected. I think many will join and once who wont cant be helped.
For your purposes I think the Geeta would be much more relevant. The Vedas are way more important for historical or mythological studies, although of course they do have philosophical value too. Also not everything has to have a "practical use" or improve your standing in the Dunya. The Vedas or the Upnishads are the kinds of texts that aren't really "needed" by most men to be understood, but the kind of people who are curious or have a philosophical bent, for them these books are treasure troves of knowledge. Even in the ancient period of course the Vedas and the Upanishads weren't common knowledge, that would be the Shastras. Kind of a wierd thing in the modern age where people think expect relgious texts to improve their material standing, these are for spiritual needs, and so they aren't for everyone, because not everyone has the spiritual yearning.
@Harsha G please understand the difference between religion and dharma. Synonym for religion in hindi is pant , not dharma...
The oxthodoxies need to engages on the basis of dharma, not religion.
The old Rgveda is about 15,000 years old. It was composed in the Vedic language of the Aryans in the Caucasus according to PR Sarkar
Stop lying.
@@curiouskid1547 The truth is hard to take for dogma. But sunlight will reveal everything in time
@@curiouskid1547 rigved is 6500 years old because now solar eclipse was happend was about 4500 bce search in google
how much material is actually available in Mittani , in order to make this study significant? I am curious
I found the word nakta in Kalidasa's Meghdootam .
In pahari night is called बैड़ि and राचि
Can you kindly share the link of Shrikantji's blogs ?
Search it. Shrikant talageri blogspot.
Rig Veda has a deep spiritual resonance. So doing historical analysis is fine but let's not forget the main reason why the Rig Veda was composed.
Yes it has ...Upanishads have more philosophy
Tell
Lllllllll
Yes, opened the comments just to say this
@@benefactor4309chup ker puranik
I could not get the meaning of unas described at around 10th minute of the video. Could anyone help me pls...
Latest video of Shri Shrikant Talageri on Out of India Theory: ruclips.net/video/DKEpERD_U4I/видео.html [Aug, 2022]
Doesn’t this basically prove the out-of-india theory?
Since all mankind come from either of the 3 sons of Noah ( assuming he is Rishabha deva) , who were split at the Tower of Babel into 70 nations with land allocated to each of them, makes sense people spread to the ends of the earth thereon.
Seek the truth and the truth will set u free
what are you talking about?
@@ZZz-kf4oy was showing how different civilization at the Tower of Babel were given their own territory , which explains how the line of shem( Noah son) and his descendants would have moved to India
Just shared a thought as you asked about the out of India theory .
@Tt t as far as I know the descendants of the 3 sons of Noah were given their own territories. But greed would have pushed man to encroach other’s territory. Hence could have moved around. I have not studied the Genesis 10, table of nations and their migration. So not able to give you exact answer.
@Chitragupta we know we come from parents who each have a set of parents back to the first set of parents . I haven’t found any book that talks about our forefathers. Most talk about evolution from apes or water etc.The Bible tells us that mankind was in Adam in seed form, and the generations spread across the world through the 3 sons of Noah who were given territory . The table of nations has details surrounding the movement of people around.
But Sir in one of your articles you have shown that Indo-Aryans moved from east to west - east meaning as far as Ganga Jamuna area to Punjab & further west. But now you say that Haryana Punjab were the areas when old books were composed. This position is contradictory, is it not? Will you please explain? Or are you revising your earlier findings?
Really awesome.Thank you
send him a mic or ask him to use old Nokia phone earphones. do a phone conversation because voice is everything not visual unless he has some slideshow to present.
Vedic people were fish eating Brahmins who lived by river saraswati and migrated to bengal and west coast after the river dried up they were tribes of Indus Valley and are known as saraswats as Mr talagiri is he should speak more on origin of saraswat and Indus Valley
Can somebody please guide me on how to find and read the old and or new rig Vedas?
By learning sanskrit
Vedas are not book so you cant read it
@@abhinavchauhan7864Sam Manekshaw had said "If you must be a bloody fool, be one quickly". He was addressing people like you.
Where we can find old rigveda
Hey Michael Witzel, I know your watching this !!! 😂
Topic suggestion: horse cart, chariot, horse-back riding, history of horse in general
Aryans came from the banks of Sarasvati River and Sapta Sindu river present in Pakistan. In 2022 there was a deluge in that area in Pakistan. Because of such deluge in Vedic period, Aryans split into two groups. One migrated to plains of India and the other group went to Babel in Iraq and built Tower of Babel, for which they were cursed by the Lord.
Bullshit religion has nothing to do with dharmic Aryans.
"The time of the composition of the Rgveda was approximately between fifteen thousand years ago and ten thousand years ago, that of the Yajurveda between ten thousand years ago and seven thousand years ago, and that of the Atharvaveda between seven thousand years ago and five thousand years ago. The Sámaveda is not a Veda at all. The word sáma means “song”. The Sámaveda was made later on from the music portions of the three Vedas, that is, the Sámaveda is found within the Rgveda, Yajurveda and Atharvaveda." - PR Sarkar in his book Shabda Cayaniká Part 2
Read books by present scholars. Rig-Veda was written in Haryana.
@@curiouskid1547 You missed the greatest scholar of them all!
The oldest portion of the Vedas, that is, the Rgveda, was composed outside India. The remaining portions, that is, the Yajurveda and Atharvaveda, were partly Indian and partly non-Indian. Sámaveda is not a separate Veda by itself but is the compilation of the lyrical and musical portions of the different Vedas. So only the Rgveda can be regarded as an ancient relic of the non-Indian Aryan civilization. The Yajurveda was composed in Iran, Afghanistan, northwest India and certain parts of what is modern Russia, so it cannot be called entirely non-Indian, particularly since Afghanistan (Gándhár) and certain parts of Russia were regarded as part of India at that time.
The original Rgvedic civilization belonged, in spirit and language, to the non-Indian Aryans. However, the Yajurveda was composed by a particular branch of the Vedic Aryans who, when the Aryans later began to spread out in search of food (especially wheat), migrated to India via Iran (Áryańya Vraja) and Afghanistan. When we say “Indo-Aryan civilization”, we basically mean the civilization of these people.
These nomadic Aryans, on coming in contact with the different groups of people of Iran, Afghanistan and northwest India, took up farming and developed the techniques of strategic warfare. The impact of this new mindset bred in them, to some extent, a refined intelligence.
In the beginning, during the Rgvedic era, the cattle-rearing Aryans were only acquainted with barley and a few other crops. After they came to the present Iran, they learned to cultivate wheat and, to some extent, rice. The more they progressed on their march, the more they came to realize the importance of growing different crops. Still, their staple was generally barley.
They learned wheat cultivation from the Asuras, the indigenous natives of Iran. Though they became acquainted with paddy, or briihi (briihi → riihi → rihi → risi → “rice”, as in modern English), they did not cultivate it extensively. They learned the use of boiled rice in India.
The Yajurvedic era saw the all-round development of these people, and the resultant development of the Brahmaváda of the Yajurveda - the doctrine of monotheism. During this era not only was there a noticeable intellectual development among the general mass of the Aryans; among the munis [intellectuals or seers] and the rśis, philosophy and spirituality also attained a brilliant height of expression. The Brahmaváda of the Yajurveda was a lot deeper and clearer than that of the Rgveda.
The Atharvaveda was initially composed in India. During the composition of this Veda, the Aryans came in close contact with the non-Aryans, resulting in an exchange of thought between the two. The Tantra of the non-Aryans had a marked influence on the Atharvaveda.
Being non-Aryan, the Atharvaveda cannot be regarded as a representation of Aryan civilization. In the subtle philosophy of the Atharvaveda, particularly of the Nrsiḿha Tápańiiya Shruti, there is a far greater influence of the non-Aryan Tantra than of the Aryan Veda. -- PR Sarkar in his book Tantra and Indo-Aryan Civilization
Stop lying without any proof.
@@curiouskid1547 The proof is very much there if you open your mind
Do you think Ayodhya is a Historical city?
The city has historically been called Saket.
Couldn't Ikshawaku dynasty in itself be a mythical dynasty
I mean Mandhaata supported gods in their war how do you see it
I don't think so very less chances of these things
Must read parigter
There is no doubt now that the original chants were composed in a proto dravidian language
there is no such thing
Has he used Hittite language, along with Mittani?
Hittite was not Indo-Aryan Language.
Hittites and mittani people was non indo European people know as hurrian .
According to indo European migration support indo aryans Noble
Replaced hurrian ruler class and mixed with them and almost lost his real identity
Iam a Shikarian.
AIT has been ejected by most scholars around the world due to lack of evidence. AMT (i.e. Aryans gradually migrated to the subcontinent; doesn't talk about invasions) is accepted nowadays.
It doesn't make sense that PIE people moved out of the subcontinent. Why on earth would anyone leave a nice and comfortable place and move towards harsh lands of Iran and Afghanistan and continue their journey forward? Also, how can one explain the existence of two other language families (distinct from Indo-Aryan): Indo-Austronesian (eg.: Santhali) and Dravidian. (Sino-Tibetan languages only exist in the Himalayan regions, that's why I left the family out).
Leaving the place was to find new lands since the ruling class wouldn't let them rule.
The second point you mentioned does make a good argument though
It’s quite possible (in fact, absolutely true) that Dravidians were completely different. But Dravidians belong to the southern parts of the landmass whereas Rig Veda and this video only talk about the area to the northwest, that too only a small part. He even mentions that Ikshvakus are different from Purus. So one cannot use the fact that someone (else) is a native of an area south of a landmass to disprove the nativity of someone who resides north.
People migrate for all sorts of reasons. out of India is more plausible of a theory than ait and Amt.
Why do people move out of India for the much colder North America or Europe in today’s age?
@@ZZz-kf4oy
Because now Europe has and North America have heating systems and imported crops of foreign origin which they did not have then.
We have roma people which originated in india migrated all over world..
Anyways it wasn't written in Indiaa, probably central Asian steppe or parts or ancient iraan😊
what exactly is his hypothesis? oh, after 30 mins he throws it casually - India was the homeland, and they went to west asia from india
You have to read his works
He is legendary in rational perspective
To understand Veda, one must be trained in traditional Guru shishya parampara.
rik 09 we need to get a guru to make RUclips videos. This knowledge can’t be passed down from person to person anymore, as it is a very slow method of knowledge transfer. Look at modern science, which works by publishing in journals.
India Brahmins should change the method of their knowledge transfer, if they want this knowledge to survive in the modern age. Otherwise, in this materialistic world, I don’t see this knowledge surviving for another 3 generations.
@@ZZz-kf4oy Actually there are many such RUclips videos discussing our scriptures in detail by those who belong to Guru Sishya parampara. But few things can't be dissipated to everyone alike. Because there is an issue of Adhikaar. I know it sounds controversial but every kind of knowledge is not for everyone. Only those people who are eligible to receive that knowledge qualify to get it. This test of eligibility can't be ensured in youtube or social media. Because knowledge and power in wrong and inefficient hands can cause problems too. So whereas we must promote the knowledge for everyone's welfare in social media, few things should also be kept confidential and restricted to eligible people.
rik 09
I have heard this excuse of “Adhikar” and “eligibility” and it is a flawed excuse. How is it that anyone born into a Brahmin family have the Adhikar and eligibility to gain that knowledge, while anyone born outside must go though a series of tests to prove themselves?
If you want your knowledge to survive into the future, you must change your ways of knowledge transfer. Otherwise, that knowledge may be lost forever. You may have that knowledge, you may pass it onto your kids and afew others whom you deem to have the “Adhikar”. But in afew generations, that knowledge will be lost. Because materialism is going to sweep the Indian lands as it has done outside of India. Money will only remain the goal of all, even for those Brahmins who have the “Adhikar” by their birth.
I don’t really care about the caste or verna angle in this. My only concern is that knowledge might be lost if you guys don’t change your ways. And that knowledge lost is the worst crime possible because it will likely take another thousands of years for humanity to ‘rediscover’ that knowledge.
@@ZZz-kf4oy I am not talking about caste or varna here. I am just saying that if I don't have the courage to use gun, there is no point of someone providing me a gun. I understand ur concern and I share that as well about knowledge getting lost. But what is the use of the knowledge if it is going to be misused. I recently came across a youtube video where some indian is talking rubbish about upanishad calling it a sex manual and what not. I was very amazed. So the thing is that one should be eligible for that knowledge. Otherwise just preserving it for the sake of preservation can be done by many modern methods too. But just like we need a Guru and not just scriptures we also need eligible people for keeping the parampara alive.
rik 09
Problem I have is that a guru will teach his children. Without doing any eligibility test. On the other hand, the same guru will never likely share that knowledge outside his family or group of followers.
What if those children or followers grow up and misuse the knowledge?
Because the selection process is flawed and favours nepotism, I propose to make that knowledge open source.
At times I think about the centuries of knowledge and books that are lost (not only to invasions) but also because selfish people want to keep the knowledge within their family/group and not share it with the world.
Catagory
Can't understand the insistence on the Rg Veda being "family books", even if these family books are compiled together as there is consistency in the flow. But these are compilations. If a song attributed to Angirasa is in a Vishwamitra "family book" maybe it was part of the family collection, or made a part of the compilation by Veda Vyasa, who we now can reasonably assert, is of the 5th millennium BCE, for good reason? Why does Talageri throw his weight behind the findings of western linguists or indologists who know little about our history or refuse to acknowledge it? Why bring the later Rg Veda books to the 1500 BCE period, in line with the colonial Aryan Invasion myths? And who says there are no horses in India in the 12th millennium BCE Ramayana period? When did, for example, Dasaratha given Keikeyi her 2 promises and what was she doing at the time? What is the ashwamedha yajna in the Ramayana era? Does Talageri think the Mahabharata took place "at the end of the Rg Vedic period"? And since he asserts the later books are of the period between 2000-1000 BCE, it would mean the Mahabharata was around 1000 BCE? Serious flaws!
Family books are from 2 to 7 Mandalas,Sir.
Also,in avademic research,it does not work by saying that "they do not understand our culture".
The Westerners did not even understand the culture of Iranians but they did determine that they originate from the Steppes.
Any academic research should be done without any preconceived opinions,and the Westerners do produce tangible results,which even though grudgingly has to be accepted,Sir.
@@adityanawani8134 my reason is that Veda is entirely about the mind, so where did these Indologists find history in it, other than to support the colonial narrative of "Aryan Invasions"? And every word they have translated to a "tribe or race or a noun (names)", like anu, druhyu, aja, sigru, sambara, parasara, vasista, divodasa, indra, yaksu, soma are generic terms for some aspect of the mind or analogies like vayu, indra, soma. And dasarajne is not ten kings, it is the 10 forms of Agni. So many mistakes that the translations are useless. Colonial indologists like Griffith were merely translating the Veda to create the evidence of Aryan invasions in our texts. They should have used itihasa texts, but Veda was convenient, apparently. And to a practitioner, the Veda is just a roadmap to the divine, the ultimate reality, entirely a spiritual, metaphysical treatise.
As a religious belief you are free to believe Vedas are apaurusheya ramayan happened 10,000 years ago everything there is in the world it's given by india but unfortunately science doesn't work on your beliefs you need hard facts and evidences that's none of you have. Pyramids are 5000 years old globeckli tepe is 8000 years old but you don't find any evidences which is even close to that in India. Talegiri is true scholer who is proving that the clear similarities between Sanskrit and European languages are coming from Sanskrit and it's indeed out of India maigration not Aryan invasion. So sorry that he cannot prove it happened 10k or 50k years ago as per your wish.
@@gagadonim3354 These are not beliefs. They are historical records, that the West was too scared to touch, and called them a myth since the events recorded had far greater antiquity than the creation date in the Bible.The Indian civilization, as per records available, is conservatively, 100,000 years or more. Which makes every other civilization find its roots, its religions, its languages, its math and the sciences and its diverse cultures here in India. But then, you don't have to worry about this. Wait for the evidence.
@@RanjivKurupweren't we all in Africa 100,000 years ago?
The rig veda is not a book it is a collection of chants
Mala Zau De
What matters for spirituality? Chronology or teaching? As long as moral of the story , objectives are the same, who cares for chronology?
Chronology and literal word by word meaning is style of lakeer ke fakeer chela's of illegal arab tribal Baba's... How can someone taking Charvak Rishi tike can act so lakeer ka fakeer unless working on some agenda of gangs of arab desert Baba's... Jerusalem to MeccA..
The Sarasvati river is shown in the RigVeda as a mighty river, which was the case atleast 17000 years from now. Look at the hydrology studies done on Saraswati paleo-channel.
How can the Vedas be 2500 years old? This Talagiri dude is just recycling the same old bibliographic geology and timelines proposed by the British 😂😂
No wonder nobody takes him seriously 😂😂
there is a difference blw composing and inventing , according our literature vedas were composed by veda vyas ( he wrote the information which has been passed down since generationsit down on to him ) so yeah vedas were composed during the mahabharat era , and it could even be 2500 k bce , but when first rig veda is recited is unknown , nobody can find it , it can be 3k bce or 10k bce or even 24k bce or even to the far extent 72k bce
Shut up modi bhakt.