Same here . Clinical Progression. Training and Job Selections all are based on it. While the job you're asking for is Clinical and Not only Research based
Other applicant: I spent a summer in France pipetting and electrophoresing proteins to see if this one specific protein has any link to follicular lymphoma. It has no clinical significance which we probably should have anticipated since the protein in question only exists in dog testicles, but by God did we publish. Interviewer: This guy is our top choice lock it in.
Anything to get citations, that's the most important thing. No matter if the original research is 1. wrong 2. hot garbage, it has a lot of blind citations through using a reference someone else used in a paper you read, who was using a reference from some other paper they read but didn't check the original reference. That's good science and good value.
I had the almost exact thing happen. BTW, I trusted that I received relevant proteins because the field I was researching in had been around for THIRTY FIVE years at that point. Was nagging about getting the sequence for a long time. When I finally got answers.... sheep spit mucin as a model for human cancer cells. Humans don't even produce the kind of mucin I was looking at. FML. I concluded that this molecule was not relevant for this research. Neither was the method we were using. And, oh yes, it got publishes in a large journal. Luckily, the professor that supervised all of this finally realized this was not gonna work pout and quit. Some people know it's not gonna work, and still continue. Not even sure hat to call that.
Italian Nephrologist here: THANK YOU for addressing the issue. In my country, heads of departments are chosen based on publications, therefore we get "Professors of Medicine" that are more able to threat a mouse than a human! The recent years of "Publish or Perish" philosophy has also ruined research in my opinion. Quantity over quality. Everybody pushing buttons on statistical softwares in order to publish whatever, in order to advance their academical career. I've spent one year as a researcher at Mayo, but that's it, thank you. Got back home and now I work with Doctors without borders.
I can only agree. My head of department (critical care) knows studies for just about anything but has not once given a remotely plausible pathophysiological explanation for his ECMO settings. On the other hand, the by far most capable intensivist in my department, who would outclass my department head drunk, stoned and at 3 in the morning, doesn't have a doctorate.
@@floricel_112 In Germany that has fortunately been abolished. Here the qualification as a physician is completely separate from any academic titles. Apart from my subject exams, I had to pass three exams. The last one went over two days. On one day I had a patient who I had to present and demonstrate some exams one, the second one was purely an oral exam. That is called the "physician's examination" (Ärztliche Prüfung). After that I don't have any titles, no Bachelor, no Master, no Doctor. To get my doctorate I volontarily write a thesis and defend it.
This was me. I did have one research paper. My medical school interviewer asked me what I thought about research. "It's very important to medicine, but it's not for me. I want to be the best physician I can be: I'll learn how research works, but I don't think I'll do it myself" I got in (somehow). I asked him later why he let me in. His response: "You're one of the few who gave me an honest answer to that question. We need doctors who are true to what they are, and not lie to themselves" =o
I'm in my 2nd of 5 years of premed psychology and I also work at the university hospital full time. From what I've heard from every physician I've talked to is that having a diverse background, and being brutally honest about what I want to do will get me where I need to go. All I want is to go into psychiatry, and help as many people as I can because too many psych patients are failed by the system. Research is not something I'm interested in, mostly because I'm 30 years old, and work full time in addition to taking 16 credits per semester. I literally don't have time to work with the researchers that the school keeps recommending to me, even if I wanted to. I'm also old enough and experienced enough to know what resume padding looks like. I'd much rather spend what little free time I have studying the things that matter instead of helping some academic publish a silly paper for the sake of publishing a paper. I'm sure it'll only get worse once I'm done with undergrad too, but that's a problem for future me, present me already has enough problems. By the time I get to the med school application, I'll have put in 4 years of patient contact experience at a minimum of 40 hours a week, on top of working blue collar jobs, military experience, and volunteer firefighting in my previous life.
My CV is unbelievably sparse. And now that I'm at the tail end of my career, I don't think that's hurt me one bit. I've enjoyed a wonderful life in a rural hospital and not one single patient on whom I've operated in the middle of the night has asked to see my list of publications before allowing me to save their life.
I completely agree. My residency tried to be more research oriented, one paper per year... In FM... I did my best but no one is ever gonna make me "like" research.
30 years for me, same. When I told the head of internal medicine in my med school IM rotation that I was going into family medicine (he went around the room asking each of us), he laughed at me in front of 8 of my third-year colleagues and told me this was a non-academic field and that I should aspire to better things. So now I’ve helped people, saved lives, improved lives, delivered babies, helped dying people die with comfort and dignity, seen kids I delivered grow up. So, head of IM: bite me.
I barely made it into my chosen field because I was this applicant. Well, I had a little research-just enough. But my lack of interest in doing countless hours of meaningless work to get a meaningless publication to sit amongst the other meaningless publications almost sank me, despite achieving essentially perfection on every other metric. But the open secret is that 99% of faculty don’t like doing research, and so need indentured servants to do the work for them. Hence the understood requirement of having research and publications for one’s residency application to be competitive. Absolute honest gold in this video!
Really feeling this. I actually published quite a bit of research even during med school, and it got me into a good program. Most of it is completely useless and doesn't add anything of significance to the field. I've stopped doing research and focus on clinical work and teaching now and I'm much happier.
Right, and now that I'm working, I see a couple things that I actually want to research, because it'll change my patients' management and lives, but it's not a big-ticket research topic (I literally want to revise autism screening tools to better catch higher-masking kids as toddlers and develop a better screening tool for older kids, who were missed as toddlers) Like, this is blue collar research - make a better tool to do your daily job better, not white collar research - what measuring the conversion rate between socket wrench handle and torque generated
@@JamesDavis-ps6yy Not blue collar! If nothing else, the research encouraged by the large programs introduces you to research methodology which could help you do the important research you proposed
Well done. During my senior year of residency the Departement of medical education decided that all residents needed to complete research. One reason i chose that particular residency program was because research wasn’t required. Even though there was no contractual obligation, our department faculty continued to pressure us to design and complete a research project. In conversation I was told ‘we just need to see that you can do research.’ So I brought a copy of my research paper I did in undergrad.
As a clinical research nurse, I can say that we need to support our physicians who don’t want to be involved in academic research. It’s ok to not love both clinical and academic realms. Also, I’ve always found it outrageous that administration expects new practitioners to already have posters, publications, and abstracts. Let them learn their clinical specialty first, for God’s sake! Otherwise they’re subpar in both clinical and academic circles. Most of us in research got into it because we learned things during practice that became passions for us. Without that passion, there’s no drive.
My research in 1978-1979 consisted of "rat surgery" cannulating the bile duct and bladder of anesthetized rats, and creating an extracorporeal loop between the right external carotid artery and left eternal jugular during so that my colleague, David Young, PharmD, PhD could determine the pharmacokinetics of excretion of F-18 5 Fluorouracil and estimate approximate distribution in the brain. A research paper was required for 2 clinical rotations. I, too, have no intent of EVER doing research although, thanks to Mr. Lomax, our 8th grade math teacher who brought dice into the classroom to provide one of the best lessons in statistics, I could calculate a P value if someone held a gun to my head. If Dr. Young ever published, I have not read the article(s), nor likely has anyone else. At nearly 72 years old, not one of my patients ever asked, "What research have you done?"
@@nigroplus We rolled dice and recorded the results. Remarkably, the results gave us the bell shaped curve. Then he taught the definitions and equations. The lesson taught me not to waste a lot of money on gambling! The principal watched through the window on the classroom for and came in to question what was going on but let us continue. One of the most practical lessons from 8th grade.
This is the most relatable post ever! When you have a logbook full of surgical procedures performed, but the other guy gets the post because he got more "papers" published
@@muhsalihuI know it would be dishonorable towards the patient but if someone gets a position ahead of me inside a hospital hierarchy, while being less qualified, I would just leave them to fix the crap they did. In the end they are responsible for what they do if they are in a more senior and higher paid position. Why get yourself into trouble at all?
@@pariahzero The issue is most training programs (residency, fellowship) are at academic institutions, so there's a bias toward people that fit their standard.
One of my professors at college was very bitter. He used to teach at a prestigious university, but his research didn't pan out often enough. He constantly said "publish or perish" in his classes.
As a guy who made it through his training without publishing a single paper, it seems simpler than that. If you write a paper, and they are your supervisor, they get to put their name on your paper, even if they contributed basically nothing. Then they get to add it to THEIR resume. It’s not like the interviewer necessarily loves research. He just needs residents who publish so he can put his name on it.
Yeah. That's wonderful for the patient who winds up with you as their physician. You are the kind of physician (assuming you actually are one) who will order a test for a patient and not know enough to tell the patient there are certain preparations for the test and if they aren't followed, the test can produce a false-negative. In the instances of a false-negative, the patient gets worse and it may not be figured out until it's too late because their physician didn't spend the time learning about how the test actually works. I hate Healthcare. You are the problem.
@@ZephyrinTheSky8008 You don't need to do research to know how to prepare patients for a test. No one said you shouldn't be knowledgeable and stay up to date. But you don't need to be an actual researcher to do that.
I hear you, doc! Me neither. Any trace on my mind of willingness to do research was redirected to support my wife’s career as a molecular biology professor. I’m good “just” anesthetizing patients.
From listening to your podcasts and talks for the last 2 years, it's clear you were not acting for the first year resident role. Thank you for this one as a non medical person
Thank you for giving me hope! I am a non-trad working on pre-reqs, and I just don't have a ton of time (or desire) to do research. It is not on my agenda as part of being a good family med doctor 🤷♂️
@@Phishi yeah, you should do some volunteer/organization work though. Like working at a free clinic, or some kind of rural healthcare program (which is what I did). Also good to do well on Step 2, though average FM Step score is rather low, so you just have to do relatively well. I was 60th percentile overall, which I think is in the 90s for FM matches. But I enjoyed the volunteer work and it was clinical. And studying hard for Step 2 has made me a better doctor. Fuck doing research, all my homies hate doing research. I read it all the time though, great at interpreting.
@@PhishiI never was very research-oriented, but I went out of my way to be as involved with community service projects as possible, because that was what I cared about. That and health advocacy. I think the most important thing is to be able to present what you're most passionate about and how it benefits your future skills as a clinician. Be they "soft" ones or "hard" ones. I think the other thing to keep in mind is that research comes in different forms and favors. When I was in med school, I did one research project that was tailored to what I was specifically interested in and involved working directly with affected persons in a community setting. (Then again, I got SUPER lucky.)
I'd like this video 10 times if I could! You have no idea how hard it hits home for me. Spent the last two years of med school taking the toughest rotations, spending time in the ICU, OR, ER etc to take care of the sickest of patients. Had the grades, the STEP scores etc. Never had a passion for research. But come interview time, people with more research and posters but with much less clinical experience got the more desirable spots. Crazy.
It doesn’t stop there, sadly. If you’re at an academic medical center, even if you’re a clinician-educator and not a researcher, they will want you to publish in your spare time if you want to get promoted. Doesn’t matter if you’re an amazing clinician and fantastic teacher. No papers, no promotion.
As an occupational therapist who has only recently finished grinding through the university mill, it’s excellent to hear that other healthcare practitioners disliked the enforced research over clinical skills agenda too. I don’t want to know what makes a good SPIDER search for a dissertation, I instead want to know how to facilitate someone washing and dressing so they regain arm function after a stroke.
I love this video. Didn’t know how much I needed to watch this until I did. Thank you. There should be a place in academics for providers who focus on caring for patients and value placed on the clinical skills that we are able to pass along. It is a different kind of expertise. I find it to be quite common that the best researchers are not the best clinicians.
I am a resident in Germany, i hate research. I am from Syria and i used to see the publications my colleagues would publish, nothing of value, just piles of unusable text without any significant effect on anything in life. For example: the effects of stress on the menstruation of medical students taking semester exams. like wth?
Well, I can see the logic behind that study. Not because it is likely to be useful, but because it is easy to do. Researching, say, the effects of steroid use on athletes or the effects of noise on construction workers would mean stepping out of the university to gather the data: way too much work. It is like doing a book report in grade school and choosing the shortest book you can find. You need the report for metrics, not for anything meaningful: therefore, the easiest report you can make is the way to go
As a woman, I find research on the effect of stress on the menstruation very interesting and applicable. To restrict it to medical students taking their exams makes it a bit eeh though :/ But I understand why it is done 😅
Great skit as always Dr. G! I´m a peds resident. As someone who likes research and wants to do research in my career, I think having really good skills in the critical appraisal of medical literature and literature search skills is FAR more important for a physician than actually DOING research.
Not like doctors are expected to do and know about a million things or anything. They want more physicians but keep making it extremely difficult to get more. Lord this was infuriating to watch (on top of being hilarious).
lol this was literally my partner. He went into med school at 40 and had no desire to do anything involving research for his career. He figured it may be a hindrance to getting his preferred residency program, but he persevered and now he runs a community mental health clinic. He’s doing exactly what he set out to do.
You nailed it!!! 👏👏👏😆 As an Internal Medicina physixian I do have a lot of colleagues that do a lot of research but have forgotten how to deal with complex cases..... They don't care about clinical cases anymore........ Not my case...... I'll always be the one Ortho calls 😂😂😂
Yes!! My Internal Medicine Doc is like that. I am a very complex patient. I was told by other doctors that the Internal Medicine docs do not like going to the hospital and like to leave it to the Hospitilist. Every time Ortho has called my PCP, she has been johnny-on-the-spot to come in and see me. Yea for doctors more concerned about their patients than research!
I'm a mental health therapist and was applying for PhD programs and basically had this exact conversation. It's why I stopped applying and just stuck with clinical work via my master's.
Thank You for speaking up to many of us IMGs, which the soul reason that kept us outside residency was either not liking it, forced to do it or even not getting a chance to force ourselves to do it because we were too focused on other aspects such as clinical experience and test scores.
I work in Europe. In my hospital in order to reach the highest appointment as a clinician (something like "senior doctor") you need a PhD and at least five years of 100% clinical time. With this fantastic system: -hardcore clinicians will never reach the highest position regardless of skill or other merits -clinical scientists that have combination appointments like 50% research and 50% clinics will need 10 years at least, regardless of skill or other merits With this system the optimal way to advance your career is to pretend you do research: do the bare minimum for a pointless PhD as a resident, then abandon research forever. Fantastic.
It's an open secret that our neurology department is a paper mill, where residents get PhDs by signing their name on some random clinical data. Got so bad the opthalmology department threatened to walk out!
On the Deans Staff at a medical school and I feel this video deep in my bones. My students all feel so much pressure to research even if they've no interest in it whatsoever and just got into the field to take care of people.
I wish more people in medicine were like that interviewee. Over my career as a scientist, I have found medical researchers to be among the worst researchers in terms of designing research, conducting data analysis, and accurately describing empirical results. Medicine is one discipline - alongside experimental psychology and economics - that could really benefit from a completely overhauled education and training process before one can qualify to be a researcher.
Man....why do i enjoy watching these? I am NOWHERE near the medical field, im an army mechanic for petes sake.....you docs sure say funny words that definitely make sense to somebody
You nailed it. Thank you for addressing this issues in the orthodox world of medicine. No one really cares about the clinical skills, every one run behind the publications and useless research. Less than 10% of research activities are useful and relevant rest is all for funding and for keeping up with the pace… this must be changed.
Literally me, they make it seem like authoring papers is synonymous with good patient care. I love teaching and practicing clinical medicine man but would happily never do any research again if it wasn’t required at all stages for progression 😢
Yes resident interviewee!! You tell them!! I'm so happy they stayed true to themselves and calmly asserted what they'd like to do :D The interviewer's emotional breakdown was also excellently acted lol
I am someone who loves research, preferably as clinically insignificant as possible. I love this one, the astonishment of the interviewer is so well played!
In my experience going from physics to medical school, the vast majority of physicians into "research" would be troubled if you actually asked *them* to calculate a p value. All they do is collect a large volume of data (often inefficiently at the behest of medical students or residents desperate to "participate" in research), send it to a statistician to generate a bunch of graphs and tables, and pluck whatever looks like it suits whatever is in vogue to publish right now. Then they'll get some other underlings to assemble it into an article, poster or abstract. They are neither researchers nor physicians. They are salespeople.
This is how it’s unfortunately is. No one cares about physicians being a good clinical doctor, only research for studies, for which big companies are paying money. At the end, patients are those who suffer from such kind of system.
The more I learn about medical schools I realize our health care system in the US is not just a matter of insurance, government, and private equity greeds. "Embryonically" it is rooted in medical schools, medical academia and the accompanying arrogance.
Big companies don't even pay for most of the research. Academic researchers don't get paid (and occasionally have to pay to publish) it's a very weird system, he also has a video on
@@jonathanchan3087 Then it's completely pointless for the doctors, they have enough to do, then there's this pointless research for which the doctors aren't even paid. What's the point? I hope this insane system will change somehow....Wish you a good stamina and a lot of strength.
You nailed it. There is too much of this mindset certainly in Pre- hospital/Paramedic medicine. Trouble is, all of the people running things are "academics" and they decide policy. It's called "Continual professionalism development in the UK Why can't we just look after patients? From the UK.
I grew up in a rural town with its own 'Cottage Hospital', along with a one Doctor/one Dentist annex we called the 'government doctors'. They were recent graduates whose education was paid for by the federal government and state medical college. They would work there for 2-3 years under the supervision of the older Doctors at the hospital- both of them- and took care of the patients who couldn't afford even the small amount charged at the cottage. The first change came when all the new doctors were foreign, and now we only have one, with the rest mostly being a higher grade of nurse. What happened?
This is actually exactly what I said in my interviews word for word. Now that I matched I'm secure that I am in the right place because I don't need to pretend to do research
I appreciate the sentiment. Research isn’t for everyone and many career pathways encourage low-value research activity to ‘improve’ a CV. But good clinicians need good research to be done to know what helps patients, what is of no value and what is harmful. Those who do embrace the clinician-researcher role are providing a vital service to their patients, their peers and to medicine.
If this is you, and you never want to do research again, apply for residency in rural states. We just need doctors. You will be valued more by the team and your resident salary will go much, much further. The lack of prestige also acts as an ego filter. In my husband’s department there is ONE attending who routinely publishes, and she advises those who want to do research. The rest of the team is much more concerned with how quickly and accurately you are able to return a read on Texaco Mike’s head CT of the farmer who got kicked by a horse.
The residency competitive drive has resulted in a malignant focus on quantity over quality and all of science suffers because of it. I came to medical school from a long stint in basic science research, with a lab that prided itself on internal rigor and well-edited, thorough work, and the med school research incentive has resulted in thousands upon thousands of low-quality papers in pay-to-play journals that would be quickly dismissed in my previous work. I have had to point out serious methodological flaws and egregious misinterpretations to my med school professors who will read an abstract off pubmed and take it as gospel and it sucks because that shouldn't be my job as a medical student
You nailed it!! Medical societies too. They have lost sight of what practicing medicine is all about. Just coming up with board questions that have NOTHING to do with real patient care.
This is me even 20 + years post interview. I agree I wanted to learn to take care of medicine, didn’t want to do research or do academic medicine. I had to do one as part of residency and thankfully no more!
Thankyou so much for this skit. Everyone in healthcare is so much into research and numbers that it sometimes feels we are losing the human touch which is one of the most important aspects of medicine. Can relate so much to this skit ❤
This was awesome 😅. Took me back to med school and residency and the ‘pressure’ to do research, which frankly, I could not have been MORE disinterested in doing. Well done!!!
"But under no circumstances will I ever calculate a P value" may have now surpassed my previous favorite Glaucomflecken quote of, "Is homeostasis a joke to you?" I'm watching this in clinic between patients having gales of laughter!! You really outdid yourself on this one.
This is absolutely me. I love being a non research specialist! Love seeing my patients, happy to read about research, but not to do it for the last 35 years!
This, absolutely this. As a wise cardiologist once said: I don’t care about doing research, you do it and tell me the results that are applicable to clinical care and I’ll implement them.
as a scientist and not a physician at all, thank you for speaking out on this!! theres so many med students who dont give a damn about research wanting to come and do research so it looks good on their cv, but this is more harmful than good imo. not only that they dont really care about research so the quality of their research may be worse, but i also have not much trust in research integrity of people who wants to publish no matter what as well.
Thank you for this. Mandatory public health research courses, research peeparation and publication plus their inferiority complex is wrecking my med school years😢
“Under no circumstances will I calculate a p value” HERO
Pee value 🤔
Quite right - confidence intervals are much more informative!
Same here .
Clinical Progression. Training and Job Selections all are based on it. While the job you're asking for is Clinical and Not only Research based
Saying lets make a poster sounds so naughty and funny! 😂 And good for him for rejecting the offer👍🏻
@@happybat1977Oops, quite proves you didn’t get it all I’m afraid 😅
Other applicant: I spent a summer in France pipetting and electrophoresing proteins to see if this one specific protein has any link to follicular lymphoma. It has no clinical significance which we probably should have anticipated since the protein in question only exists in dog testicles, but by God did we publish.
Interviewer: This guy is our top choice lock it in.
That's how it feels like
Sadly there is nothing we can do to change it
I just laughed
Anything to get citations, that's the most important thing. No matter if the original research is 1. wrong 2. hot garbage, it has a lot of blind citations through using a reference someone else used in a paper you read, who was using a reference from some other paper they read but didn't check the original reference. That's good science and good value.
I'm crying right now 🤣
I had the almost exact thing happen. BTW, I trusted that I received relevant proteins because the field I was researching in had been around for THIRTY FIVE years at that point. Was nagging about getting the sequence for a long time. When I finally got answers.... sheep spit mucin as a model for human cancer cells. Humans don't even produce the kind of mucin I was looking at. FML. I concluded that this molecule was not relevant for this research. Neither was the method we were using. And, oh yes, it got publishes in a large journal. Luckily, the professor that supervised all of this finally realized this was not gonna work pout and quit. Some people know it's not gonna work, and still continue. Not even sure hat to call that.
"My father was a farmer! A professor of farming at the university of Iowa! Never farmed a day in his life!"
-Cave Johnson
Cave Johnson has some of the greatest lines of all time. I frequently to this day go back to the lemons monologue.
And let us not forget Major Major Major Major from Catch 22 whose father was not an alfalfa farmer.
This is literally the last place I was expecting to find a Portal reference lmao
Interviewer: "Oh, I'm gonna be sick."
Interviewee: "Maybe I could help with that?"
Other interviewee: heres my paper talking about how the impact of this drug on nausea was statistically insignificant compared to placebo.
For a second I thought the reaction was going to lead to calling ER bro or Cardiology.
The interviewee sure did that! Help make him sick, that is.
"can you? Do you have a trial I can enroll in?"
Nicely played.
Italian Nephrologist here: THANK YOU for addressing the issue. In my country, heads of departments are chosen based on publications, therefore we get "Professors of Medicine" that are more able to threat a mouse than a human! The recent years of "Publish or Perish" philosophy has also ruined research in my opinion. Quantity over quality. Everybody pushing buttons on statistical softwares in order to publish whatever, in order to advance their academical career. I've spent one year as a researcher at Mayo, but that's it, thank you. Got back home and now I work with Doctors without borders.
If you do not believe me just google my real name Giancarlo Joli, just wanted to give you proof of this
I can only agree. My head of department (critical care) knows studies for just about anything but has not once given a remotely plausible pathophysiological explanation for his ECMO settings. On the other hand, the by far most capable intensivist in my department, who would outclass my department head drunk, stoned and at 3 in the morning, doesn't have a doctorate.
In hindsight, having to write a paper as your GRADUATION EXAM to determine whether you become a doctor or not is a bonkers system
@@floricel_112 In Germany that has fortunately been abolished. Here the qualification as a physician is completely separate from any academic titles. Apart from my subject exams, I had to pass three exams. The last one went over two days. On one day I had a patient who I had to present and demonstrate some exams one, the second one was purely an oral exam. That is called the "physician's examination" (Ärztliche Prüfung). After that I don't have any titles, no Bachelor, no Master, no Doctor. To get my doctorate I volontarily write a thesis and defend it.
Thank you! Your work with Doctors without borders is amazing and I deeply appreciate what you do.
This was me. I did have one research paper. My medical school interviewer asked me what I thought about research.
"It's very important to medicine, but it's not for me. I want to be the best physician I can be: I'll learn how research works, but I don't think I'll do it myself"
I got in (somehow). I asked him later why he let me in. His response:
"You're one of the few who gave me an honest answer to that question. We need doctors who are true to what they are, and not lie to themselves"
=o
I'm in my 2nd of 5 years of premed psychology and I also work at the university hospital full time. From what I've heard from every physician I've talked to is that having a diverse background, and being brutally honest about what I want to do will get me where I need to go. All I want is to go into psychiatry, and help as many people as I can because too many psych patients are failed by the system. Research is not something I'm interested in, mostly because I'm 30 years old, and work full time in addition to taking 16 credits per semester. I literally don't have time to work with the researchers that the school keeps recommending to me, even if I wanted to. I'm also old enough and experienced enough to know what resume padding looks like. I'd much rather spend what little free time I have studying the things that matter instead of helping some academic publish a silly paper for the sake of publishing a paper. I'm sure it'll only get worse once I'm done with undergrad too, but that's a problem for future me, present me already has enough problems. By the time I get to the med school application, I'll have put in 4 years of patient contact experience at a minimum of 40 hours a week, on top of working blue collar jobs, military experience, and volunteer firefighting in my previous life.
That was me too. When there us too much of a research focus, there isn't enough of working in the trenches going on.
Yep. Part of why I didn't do fellowship, because all peds fellowships require research, which inflates the duration of fellowship
Paging Dr. Chad 🤘
My CV is unbelievably sparse. And now that I'm at the tail end of my career, I don't think that's hurt me one bit. I've enjoyed a wonderful life in a rural hospital and not one single patient on whom I've operated in the middle of the night has asked to see my list of publications before allowing me to save their life.
"B-but... *I* had to publish. The ones before me had to publish. This tradition HAS to continue."
"Does it though?"
*spasms uncontrollably*
Just like working 48hrs shifts every 2 days
WRONG tradition!
This just hits a nerve, I never knew existed
I completely agree. My residency tried to be more research oriented, one paper per year... In FM... I did my best but no one is ever gonna make me "like" research.
If only there had been more research
Should probably publish a case study about a newly-found nerve.
this hits a nerve i know exists and thrives daily
Interviewer’s soul left the room
I thought he was going to cry!
I was really ready to hand him an emesis bag. @@texasnurse
“I don’t know if what you’re saying is clinically significant.”
Even the subtle remarks are elite level satire.
Wow. You nailed it. You are the best actor! And I loved the resident wanting to care for patients and the astounded clinician!
He nails it each and every time! His talent and intellect are a gift.
It's almost like if I wanted to do research I would have gone for a PhD instead of an MD/DO
Exactly .
This guy is my HERO. In practice 20 years without a single publication to my name. It can be done. Stay strong brother!
30 years for me, same. When I told the head of internal medicine in my med school IM rotation that I was going into family medicine (he went around the room asking each of us), he laughed at me in front of 8 of my third-year colleagues and told me this was a non-academic field and that I should aspire to better things. So now I’ve helped people, saved lives, improved lives, delivered babies, helped dying people die with comfort and dignity, seen kids I delivered grow up. So, head of IM: bite me.
“Look man, only ‘P-values’ I am ever going to care about are the ones in a urinalysis!”
lmaoooo brilliant
I barely made it into my chosen field because I was this applicant. Well, I had a little research-just enough. But my lack of interest in doing countless hours of meaningless work to get a meaningless publication to sit amongst the other meaningless publications almost sank me, despite achieving essentially perfection on every other metric. But the open secret is that 99% of faculty don’t like doing research, and so need indentured servants to do the work for them. Hence the understood requirement of having research and publications for one’s residency application to be competitive. Absolute honest gold in this video!
Really feeling this. I actually published quite a bit of research even during med school, and it got me into a good program. Most of it is completely useless and doesn't add anything of significance to the field. I've stopped doing research and focus on clinical work and teaching now and I'm much happier.
Right, and now that I'm working, I see a couple things that I actually want to research, because it'll change my patients' management and lives, but it's not a big-ticket research topic
(I literally want to revise autism screening tools to better catch higher-masking kids as toddlers and develop a better screening tool for older kids, who were missed as toddlers)
Like, this is blue collar research - make a better tool to do your daily job better, not white collar research - what measuring the conversion rate between socket wrench handle and torque generated
@@JamesDavis-ps6yy Not blue collar! If nothing else, the research encouraged by the large programs introduces you to research methodology which could help you do the important research you proposed
Well done. During my senior year of residency the Departement of medical education decided that all residents needed to complete research. One reason i chose that particular residency program was because research wasn’t required. Even though there was no contractual obligation, our department faculty continued to pressure us to design and complete a research project. In conversation I was told ‘we just need to see that you can do research.’ So I brought a copy of my research paper I did in undergrad.
As a clinical research nurse, I can say that we need to support our physicians who don’t want to be involved in academic research. It’s ok to not love both clinical and academic realms. Also, I’ve always found it outrageous that administration expects new practitioners to already have posters, publications, and abstracts. Let them learn their clinical specialty first, for God’s sake! Otherwise they’re subpar in both clinical and academic circles. Most of us in research got into it because we learned things during practice that became passions for us. Without that passion, there’s no drive.
My research in 1978-1979 consisted of "rat surgery" cannulating the bile duct and bladder of anesthetized rats, and creating an extracorporeal loop between the right external carotid artery and left eternal jugular during so that my colleague, David Young, PharmD, PhD could determine the pharmacokinetics of excretion of F-18 5 Fluorouracil and estimate approximate distribution in the brain. A research paper was required for 2 clinical rotations. I, too, have no intent of EVER doing research although, thanks to Mr. Lomax, our 8th grade math teacher who brought dice into the classroom to provide one of the best lessons in statistics, I could calculate a P value if someone held a gun to my head. If Dr. Young ever published, I have not read the article(s), nor likely has anyone else. At nearly 72 years old, not one of my patients ever asked, "What research have you done?"
Wow - so much medical advancement can be traced back to research like this 😂
Which was Mr Lomax's lesson?
I feel like I should start asking my doctors about their research at every appointment now 🤣
@@nigroplus We rolled dice and recorded the results. Remarkably, the results gave us the bell shaped curve. Then he taught the definitions and equations. The lesson taught me not to waste a lot of money on gambling! The principal watched through the window on the classroom for and came in to question what was going on but let us continue. One of the most practical lessons from 8th grade.
I know some of those words.
This is the most relatable post ever! When you have a logbook full of surgical procedures performed, but the other guy gets the post because he got more "papers" published
And whenever they are in trouble on the table, they immediately remember to call you because they know that you will invariably get them out of jail.
@@muhsalihuI know it would be dishonorable towards the patient but if someone gets a position ahead of me inside a hospital hierarchy, while being less qualified, I would just leave them to fix the crap they did. In the end they are responsible for what they do if they are in a more senior and higher paid position. Why get yourself into trouble at all?
Yep. There is a saying.
"Publish or Perish"😊
I choose perish!
I thought that saying was _for academia?_
Obviously I'm not in the field.
@@pariahzero The issue is most training programs (residency, fellowship) are at academic institutions, so there's a bias toward people that fit their standard.
One of my professors at college was very bitter. He used to teach at a prestigious university, but his research didn't pan out often enough. He constantly said "publish or perish" in his classes.
@@InquisMalleus 😅
As a guy who made it through his training without publishing a single paper, it seems simpler than that. If you write a paper, and they are your supervisor, they get to put their name on your paper, even if they contributed basically nothing. Then they get to add it to THEIR resume. It’s not like the interviewer necessarily loves research. He just needs residents who publish so he can put his name on it.
This needs to be said. Some Physicians want to be physicians and do not want to do research. Let us be.
Yeah. That's wonderful for the patient who winds up with you as their physician. You are the kind of physician (assuming you actually are one) who will order a test for a patient and not know enough to tell the patient there are certain preparations for the test and if they aren't followed, the test can produce a false-negative. In the instances of a false-negative, the patient gets worse and it may not be figured out until it's too late because their physician didn't spend the time learning about how the test actually works. I hate Healthcare. You are the problem.
@@ZephyrinTheSky8008 You don't need to do research to know how to prepare patients for a test. No one said you shouldn't be knowledgeable and stay up to date. But you don't need to be an actual researcher to do that.
@@mindtrappergr2 Enough said.
hahahah amazing. “Can we do a poster?” 😂 ugh love your videos so much
I hear you, doc! Me neither. Any trace on my mind of willingness to do research was redirected to support my wife’s career as a molecular biology professor. I’m good “just” anesthetizing patients.
Shoutout to all us unambitioned slackers who "just" anesthetize people: we bring in the support that's needed, where it's needed
Are you sure that resident hasn't done a psychology rotation? That is an amazing display of boundaries.
I was thinking about this too. I could have used this role model for keeping boundaries!
Can we just pause for a minute to appreciate how good a comedian and actor Dr Glaycomflecken is!
From listening to your podcasts and talks for the last 2 years, it's clear you were not acting for the first year resident role. Thank you for this one as a non medical person
My name's on a research paper. From the late 70s. I was the typist and the doctor was sweet and wanted to include me.
Same here! I was the "editorial assistant" in the 90s. Vascular surgery.
I never did research and matched my number 1 FM choice ;)
FM is the way
Thank you for giving me hope! I am a non-trad working on pre-reqs, and I just don't have a ton of time (or desire) to do research. It is not on my agenda as part of being a good family med doctor 🤷♂️
@@Phishi yeah, you should do some volunteer/organization work though. Like working at a free clinic, or some kind of rural healthcare program (which is what I did).
Also good to do well on Step 2, though average FM Step score is rather low, so you just have to do relatively well. I was 60th percentile overall, which I think is in the 90s for FM matches.
But I enjoyed the volunteer work and it was clinical. And studying hard for Step 2 has made me a better doctor.
Fuck doing research, all my homies hate doing research. I read it all the time though, great at interpreting.
@@PhishiI never was very research-oriented, but I went out of my way to be as involved with community service projects as possible, because that was what I cared about. That and health advocacy.
I think the most important thing is to be able to present what you're most passionate about and how it benefits your future skills as a clinician. Be they "soft" ones or "hard" ones.
I think the other thing to keep in mind is that research comes in different forms and favors. When I was in med school, I did one research project that was tailored to what I was specifically interested in and involved working directly with affected persons in a community setting. (Then again, I got SUPER lucky.)
No static at all
I'd like this video 10 times if I could! You have no idea how hard it hits home for me. Spent the last two years of med school taking the toughest rotations, spending time in the ICU, OR, ER etc to take care of the sickest of patients. Had the grades, the STEP scores etc. Never had a passion for research. But come interview time, people with more research and posters but with much less clinical experience got the more desirable spots. Crazy.
It doesn’t stop there, sadly. If you’re at an academic medical center, even if you’re a clinician-educator and not a researcher, they will want you to publish in your spare time if you want to get promoted. Doesn’t matter if you’re an amazing clinician and fantastic teacher. No papers, no promotion.
As an occupational therapist who has only recently finished grinding through the university mill, it’s excellent to hear that other healthcare practitioners disliked the enforced research over clinical skills agenda too. I don’t want to know what makes a good SPIDER search for a dissertation, I instead want to know how to facilitate someone washing and dressing so they regain arm function after a stroke.
I love this video. Didn’t know how much I needed to watch this until I did. Thank you. There should be a place in academics for providers who focus on caring for patients and value placed on the clinical skills that we are able to pass along. It is a different kind of expertise. I find it to be quite common that the best researchers are not the best clinicians.
Especially in surgical specialties.
00:40 10/10 meme skill right there. It's literally Jennifer Lawrence's "what do you mean" clip.
I am a resident in Germany, i hate research. I am from Syria and i used to see the publications my colleagues would publish, nothing of value, just piles of unusable text without any significant effect on anything in life. For example: the effects of stress on the menstruation of medical students taking semester exams. like wth?
Well, I can see the logic behind that study. Not because it is likely to be useful, but because it is easy to do. Researching, say, the effects of steroid use on athletes or the effects of noise on construction workers would mean stepping out of the university to gather the data: way too much work.
It is like doing a book report in grade school and choosing the shortest book you can find. You need the report for metrics, not for anything meaningful: therefore, the easiest report you can make is the way to go
As a woman, I find research on the effect of stress on the menstruation very interesting and applicable. To restrict it to medical students taking their exams makes it a bit eeh though :/
But I understand why it is done 😅
Great skit as always Dr. G!
I´m a peds resident. As someone who likes research and wants to do research in my career, I think having really good skills in the critical appraisal of medical literature and literature search skills is FAR more important for a physician than actually DOING research.
CT surgeon here. Thank you for this !!!! Finally someone said it!!!
Not like doctors are expected to do and know about a million things or anything. They want more physicians but keep making it extremely difficult to get more. Lord this was infuriating to watch (on top of being hilarious).
lol this was literally my partner. He went into med school at 40 and had no desire to do anything involving research for his career. He figured it may be a hindrance to getting his preferred residency program, but he persevered and now he runs a community mental health clinic. He’s doing exactly what he set out to do.
You nailed it!!! 👏👏👏😆
As an Internal Medicina physixian I do have a lot of colleagues that do a lot of research but have forgotten how to deal with complex cases..... They don't care about clinical cases anymore........
Not my case...... I'll always be the one Ortho calls 😂😂😂
🫡 medicine-doctor bro
Yes!! My Internal Medicine Doc is like that.
I am a very complex patient. I was told by other doctors that the Internal Medicine docs do not like going to the hospital and like to leave it to the Hospitilist.
Every time Ortho has called my PCP, she has been johnny-on-the-spot to come in and see me. Yea for doctors more concerned about their patients than research!
lol I love how flustered he is. lol Imagine a doc that wants to treat patients go figure.
I'm a mental health therapist and was applying for PhD programs and basically had this exact conversation. It's why I stopped applying and just stuck with clinical work via my master's.
Thank You for speaking up to many of us IMGs, which the soul reason that kept us outside residency was either not liking it, forced to do it or even not getting a chance to force ourselves to do it because we were too focused on other aspects such as clinical experience and test scores.
I work in Europe. In my hospital in order to reach the highest appointment as a clinician (something like "senior doctor") you need a PhD and at least five years of 100% clinical time. With this fantastic system:
-hardcore clinicians will never reach the highest position regardless of skill or other merits
-clinical scientists that have combination appointments like 50% research and 50% clinics will need 10 years at least, regardless of skill or other merits
With this system the optimal way to advance your career is to pretend you do research: do the bare minimum for a pointless PhD as a resident, then abandon research forever. Fantastic.
It's an open secret that our neurology department is a paper mill, where residents get PhDs by signing their name on some random clinical data. Got so bad the opthalmology department threatened to walk out!
On the Deans Staff at a medical school and I feel this video deep in my bones. My students all feel so much pressure to research even if they've no interest in it whatsoever and just got into the field to take care of people.
I wish more people in medicine were like that interviewee. Over my career as a scientist, I have found medical researchers to be among the worst researchers in terms of designing research, conducting data analysis, and accurately describing empirical results. Medicine is one discipline - alongside experimental psychology and economics - that could really benefit from a completely overhauled education and training process before one can qualify to be a researcher.
Shattering a world view in under one minute. Achievement unlocked. ✅
Omg that one hit the nail stright on, wow. Just wow.
"Is it clinically significant?" is now my replacement for "Do I need to worry about this right now?" 😅
Man....why do i enjoy watching these?
I am NOWHERE near the medical field, im an army mechanic for petes sake.....you docs sure say funny words that definitely make sense to somebody
You nailed it. Thank you for addressing this issues in the orthodox world of medicine. No one really cares about the clinical skills, every one run behind the publications and useless research. Less than 10% of research activities are useful and relevant rest is all for funding and for keeping up with the pace… this must be changed.
better than publishing garbage just to check a box. i support this message ;)
Or worse, publishing fiction and hoping nobody notices!
Literally me, they make it seem like authoring papers is synonymous with good patient care. I love teaching and practicing clinical medicine man but would happily never do any research again if it wasn’t required at all stages for progression 😢
Yes resident interviewee!! You tell them!! I'm so happy they stayed true to themselves and calmly asserted what they'd like to do :D The interviewer's emotional breakdown was also excellently acted lol
I am someone who loves research, preferably as clinically insignificant as possible. I love this one, the astonishment of the interviewer is so well played!
In my experience going from physics to medical school, the vast majority of physicians into "research" would be troubled if you actually asked *them* to calculate a p value. All they do is collect a large volume of data (often inefficiently at the behest of medical students or residents desperate to "participate" in research), send it to a statistician to generate a bunch of graphs and tables, and pluck whatever looks like it suits whatever is in vogue to publish right now. Then they'll get some other underlings to assemble it into an article, poster or abstract. They are neither researchers nor physicians. They are salespeople.
This is how it’s unfortunately is. No one cares about physicians being a good clinical doctor, only research for studies, for which big companies are paying money. At the end, patients are those who suffer from such kind of system.
The more I learn about medical schools I realize our health care system in the US is not just a matter of insurance, government, and private equity greeds. "Embryonically" it is rooted in medical schools, medical academia and the accompanying arrogance.
Big companies don't even pay for most of the research. Academic researchers don't get paid (and occasionally have to pay to publish) it's a very weird system, he also has a video on
@@jonathanchan3087 Then it's completely pointless for the doctors, they have enough to do, then there's this pointless research for which the doctors aren't even paid. What's the point? I hope this insane system will change somehow....Wish you a good stamina and a lot of strength.
This is by far the best video you’ve done. Thank you from a community physician who hates P values
As a patient, he’s the guy I want to be my doctor.
He is going to give you the best of care.
Man, I can’t thank you enough for posting these videos
You nailed it.
There is too much of this mindset certainly in Pre- hospital/Paramedic medicine.
Trouble is, all of the people running things are "academics" and they decide policy.
It's called "Continual professionalism development in the UK
Why can't we just look after patients?
From the UK.
Omg, as a paediatric oncology fellow with very limited interest in research, this is so real it BURNS.
I grew up in a rural town with its own 'Cottage Hospital', along with a one Doctor/one Dentist annex we called the 'government doctors'. They were recent graduates whose education was paid for by the federal government and state medical college. They would work there for 2-3 years under the supervision of the older Doctors at the hospital- both of them- and took care of the patients who couldn't afford even the small amount charged at the cottage. The first change came when all the new doctors were foreign, and now we only have one, with the rest mostly being a higher grade of nurse. What happened?
Your “foreign” doctors are there probably to fulfill visa criteria, and nurse practitioners are cheaper than physicians 🤷🏻♀️.
This gave me a rash. Can the non academic resident have a look?
🤣🤣 I made the mistake of drinking coffee while watching Dr G and reading the comments...time to change my shirt
@@Cara-380let's do some thorough research on how to get that stain out!
@@beccaa5086 You think Shout or Tide will fund this research??
as someone balls deep in a research project i feel this
Balls deep without gagging? That's impressive
Just balls??? Not your soul yet? Doing good man...
Liking before I watch because in Glauc we trust
This is actually exactly what I said in my interviews word for word. Now that I matched I'm secure that I am in the right place because I don't need to pretend to do research
I can't wait until I can stop pretending I like research.
He's so good playing all the characters he does.
You said the words 99% of us never had the guts to say.
This video stressed me out. the acting was so good and I could feel the clinician ready to pop an aneurysm
This might be my favorite sketch yet. I feel this SO HARD
I appreciate the sentiment. Research isn’t for everyone and many career pathways encourage low-value research activity to ‘improve’ a CV. But good clinicians need good research to be done to know what helps patients, what is of no value and what is harmful. Those who do embrace the clinician-researcher role are providing a vital service to their patients, their peers and to medicine.
25+ years practicing pediatrics - I ♥this video! 😅 I'm happy some of you like doing research, some of us just want to take care of our patients.
posting this in the midst of M4s desperately trying to get things prepped in time to submit for the residency application cycle is PEAK genius
One reason I left a residency training center was exactly this. I love clinical and the academics were taking over
Oh my god, this is wonderful!! Resonating like crazy with me!
Wow, your acting was fantastic, I was completely draw in
Oh I couldn’t agree more! Just let me look after patients! That’s what I love to do and what I trained all these years for.
If this is you, and you never want to do research again, apply for residency in rural states. We just need doctors. You will be valued more by the team and your resident salary will go much, much further. The lack of prestige also acts as an ego filter. In my husband’s department there is ONE attending who routinely publishes, and she advises those who want to do research. The rest of the team is much more concerned with how quickly and accurately you are able to return a read on Texaco Mike’s head CT of the farmer who got kicked by a horse.
Thank you for doing this video. Funny, but also very telling. It's okay to have doctors who want to do research, and those who don't.
The residency competitive drive has resulted in a malignant focus on quantity over quality and all of science suffers because of it. I came to medical school from a long stint in basic science research, with a lab that prided itself on internal rigor and well-edited, thorough work, and the med school research incentive has resulted in thousands upon thousands of low-quality papers in pay-to-play journals that would be quickly dismissed in my previous work. I have had to point out serious methodological flaws and egregious misinterpretations to my med school professors who will read an abstract off pubmed and take it as gospel and it sucks because that shouldn't be my job as a medical student
You nailed it!! Medical societies too. They have lost sight of what practicing medicine is all about. Just coming up with board questions that have NOTHING to do with real patient care.
One of his best videos!
The general public has no idea how accurate this is
This is me even 20 + years post interview. I agree I wanted to learn to take care of medicine, didn’t want to do research or do academic medicine. I had to do one as part of residency and thankfully no more!
Really good acting here doc! I enjoyed it a lot.
Thankyou so much for this skit. Everyone in healthcare is so much into research and numbers that it sometimes feels we are losing the human touch which is one of the most important aspects of medicine. Can relate so much to this skit ❤
This was awesome 😅. Took me back to med school and residency and the ‘pressure’ to do research, which frankly, I could not have been MORE disinterested in doing. Well done!!!
One of the best videos till date!!
One more reason why Family Medicine is the best!
"P-value? No, you don't have to worry about that. The nurse handles the urine screens."
Funny enough I almost feel like this is the origin story to the Rural Medicine doctor.
"But under no circumstances will I ever calculate a P value" may have now surpassed my previous favorite Glaucomflecken quote of, "Is homeostasis a joke to you?"
I'm watching this in clinic between patients having gales of laughter!! You really outdid yourself on this one.
We should normalize this. So much pointless work done by trainees who don't care about it to tick a box. Leave research to those who want to do it.
OMG I can’t stop laughing, the interviewer reaction is spot on😂😂😂😂
Had this exact same experience as a teacher. I don't want to be on the professional track, thanks. Just put me in the lecture hall.
This is absolutely me. I love being a non research specialist! Love seeing my patients, happy to read about research, but not to do it for the last 35 years!
This, absolutely this. As a wise cardiologist once said: I don’t care about doing research, you do it and tell me the results that are applicable to clinical care and I’ll implement them.
as a scientist and not a physician at all, thank you for speaking out on this!! theres so many med students who dont give a damn about research wanting to come and do research so it looks good on their cv, but this is more harmful than good imo. not only that they dont really care about research so the quality of their research may be worse, but i also have not much trust in research integrity of people who wants to publish no matter what as well.
I didn't realize how much this needed to be said. ❤
Thank you for this. Mandatory public health research courses, research peeparation and publication plus their inferiority complex is wrecking my med school years😢