Could McLaren Really Go BANKRUPT? How Board Room Politics is Killing The World's Best Supercars
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Me and McLaren aren't exactly the best of friends, but they have a big problem coming. One that just got made a whole lot worse - and they aren't doing anything to stop it.
Here's a video looking at what I think is going to be the biggest challenge McLaren will have to face in the next couple of years.
#McLaren #Analysis #Bankrupt
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![Here's Why A McLaren Loses £50,000 a year: How They Are Failing Their Customers (IMHO) [VLOG]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4SmqNaUqTGo/mqdefault.jpg)
Its so refreshing to see somebody talking fluidly without a jump cut every 2 seconds.
Yes indeed :)
This is very much the result of careful preps & efforts - things that quite few are willing to do!
Yes, now that you mentioned it, he talks fluidly.
There are jump cuts in my feed ... on hang on, maybe that's just me skipping through. He does talk though ... and talk, and talk and talk.
Haha 69 likes go brrrrrrrr
Like i always say if you are looking for exclusivity all you are doing is getting ripped of + paying gor a very very unreliable car because you are buying one of very few built is the reason for the loco price not because its a best quality as for a higher production like the 600lt and the 720s you are paying lots of money because they make buyers believe that they are buying a high end supercar with all that racing pedegee of the brand and bla bla bla advertising etc etc all the good old ci
Costumer is doing is sendind the dealer very happy to the banck like you said i mean i can buy a used mclaren and still keep my economics ok from what im but to maintain that unreliable bitch is what gets on my nerves of course i van still live with it but i feel like im being ripped off so i think that if i want a very reliable very fsst super car reliable cheap tp maintain the Ultima GTR is the ladt world the best combo ever for reliability at some 60000$ used it dont look bad and with a porsche transmission and a good old LS corvette engine i can wipe out of my mind the need for speed and like you say afew tenths of a second its very very worth to buy one
Keep up with your videos and take care budy
Enzo Ferrari "always make one less car than you can sell".. He might have had a point..
And that's why the Enzo and all the other modern limited edition cars' numbers are always something-something-99
I have a Peugeot 106 diesel..I suspect Peugeot didn't take the same approach.
Bib The Boulder hahaha yep
@@Anankin12 well it has been known that Ferrari build numbers are total lies though.
@@Wouter-van-der-Molen im sure they just lost count... :)
"Being bankrupt is basically a hobby for Aston Martin" 😂😂😂
I dont remember them ever going bust ,
The Newport Pagnell days , People and Cars , PRECIOUS
Quality. They have the best stitching for the interior
It's rarely made money
Jonny Sl haven’t they been given to everyone that can weld mondeo V6s
@@jonnysl6560 how long is your memory?
If every car is a special edition
Then none of them is special at all
Here's a secret, no car is special. It's manufactured scarcity and your lizard brain full on fomo collaborating to make you believe that.
@@ufsteropolstero6014
Just like Pagani
I mean. Scamgani
@@justicewarrior9187 yeah take your pimped up amg black series for 3 million lmfao
2:30 16-Apr-20: "McLaren are going to go bankrupt or see some major restructuring"
26-May-20: McLaren Group make 1,200 staff redundant
One word: Arrogance. Their senior staff and some sales staff are elitist and arrogant. You want to love them but some individuals working for that company are utterly loathsome.
DauntingGecko agreed, been seeing this for ages. I seen this in the corporate world, pride before a fall comes to mind.
so just like Ferrari then
@@ImperialDiecast much worse I think
@@colinashby3775 Absolutely not. My local mclaren dealership has some of the nicest and least snotty people I've ever met. The ferrari dealership is full of douches, while the lamborghini dealership is mid way between the two.
Yes , I cAn remember Porsche being exactly the same in the 80s ,I distinctively remember that feeling when I entered there dealership in Warwick , they looked and spoke to me, eventually, like I was something one scrapes of the sole of your boot .
I've owned multiple McLarens over the years, tracked them all the time, and I've never had a problem with any of them...mind you, it was in Forza.
My Range Rover went 250k miles without so much as a bulb replacement...
Yeah right on both scenarios!
@@williamegler8771 s ok
I have a friend who owned a dealership and sold it. So few cars were delivered from the factory whole his staff were spending all their time dealing with customer problems. He got rid of it. Build quality is crap. Paint is crap etc etc.
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie
Absolutely loving this vid - such great arguments and delivery.
Cheers guys
Hear hear!
@JayEmm on Cars Mate, you should message them and say you will consult them in turning their company around. They need to focus solely on sorting out their reliability issues, slim down the offerings to 3 cars. GTC4Lusso equivalent, 570 and Senna. Volkswagen might as well buy them and turn the company around using cross platform technologies and utilise the vast VAG dealer network.
@@JayEmmOnCars At this point they should jist sell the company to VW. In my opinion
Just wish you had taken 10 minutes to get your point across not 40.
Yes and very easily.
1. Stop making new cars every year
2. Focus all efforts on quality not quantity. Dealerships as well as manufacturing.
3. Get your F1 cars back upfront
Fail and you will fail
siemenssx1
Do what? What on earth are you referring to It’s not my company😂
@siemenssx1 Didn't take your meds today bud?
Agreed, McLaren and their failing has much more to do with their action instead of politic decisions.
siemenssx1 are you stupid? Hes literally just listing ways for the company not to fail. Its called constructive criticism and companies need that when theyre not doing well
@siemenssx1 let me guess.
You are an electronic engineer @ McLaren?
Youve nailed every issue. Have had three. Love. Each. One! Have a great dealer, but at the end of the day, reliablity issues and hyper depreciation no longer make McLaren feasible when compared to the competition. Unless you are insanely wealthy and just don't care, these things make all the difference. Thanks for a great video as always.
Thanks craig
cool .. which 3 did you have and which one was best ?
That’s why you buy a 4 year old 675lt that has bottomed out at the depreciation curve
Senna, P1, Sabre, Speedtail, 765LT, F1 .... all these cars go up in value over time, looks like u had a one from sports series like 570S or something like that and I have never heard someone complaining about Reliability, Lamborghini has reliability issues their cars overheat very quickly, i saw many Aventadors catching fire , and they depreciate as well, Lamborghini Gallardo has 220 MSRP when it came out in the first time, now you can get one for 80 grand , same thing with the Huracan.
@@two24studios 720S is going up in value nowadays since the 765LT is a limited production car a fully loaded 765LT cost $600K, even Ferraris lost value like 488 GTB, 458 Italia, Huaracan and Gallardos, Regular Aventadors from 2001 to 2014 as well there are a ton of them.
I remember going to McLaren for a job interview in 2016. I was attracted to the job be the decent money and the 'prestige' of working for them. It seemed like such a space age facility, but I distinctly remember the terrible atmosphere of the place. Everyone just looked so miserable. I came out of that interview not being sure if I still wanted the job. I did text the offer but I'm glad I didn't. I've heard things about management being utter arse holes. Dodged a bullet there!
Same experience & outcome when I interviewed for a senior position with GSK and another company who’s name changed and I can’t remember it. Finally, a position at AstraZeneca in Sweden. Nobody from U.K. was willing to go to Gothenburg.
I remained an independent as my own boss and ultimately ran my own biotech, getting out with a good capital gain for all involved a few years later.
It’s irrelevant now, but I’d advise people to keep the hell away from corporates. They never care about you and you’ll soon hate what you’re having to do for the loot. It’s not worth it. You spend way too long working to be able to put up with doing a job in a horrible atmosphere, unless you don’t mind psychological trauma.
Did anyone ever ask for a mid-engine GT, or a new "Limited Edition" vehicle every year?
Dean Churchman you mean every month
Yea and you buy them all to yes?
There doing too much oversaturated with too many cars
The gt, speedtail, Elva, 765lt I mean I think there not even done rolling out the senna's right?
@@dizzy2020 What do you mean by Ferrari salesmen having 100s of orders?
mclaren s plan is to build 25 new models within 20 yrs
This video also touches upon a larger problem - that many car ‘youtubers’ are too willing to heap praise upon brands to further their own goals and keep the access coming, rather than truthfully reporting the full ambit of ownership experiences that they are having. This is a correction that needs to happen. I applaud you for bringing these issues to light.
The car industry is strange in that people are willing to put up with some real BS to simply get a chance of being considered for the latest and greatest. This needs to stop.
There are brands i have approached but been denied and then spoken to others who have said to me I won't get a car becuase I am honest! Lot of car brands just want lifestyle vloggers, not car people
Jonathan Benjamin totally agree. If the motoring journalist/ influencer world actually reported honestly about some of the reliability and ownership issues it would force McLaren and other manufacturers to fix issues. But because that market is so saturated, youtubers and even some journalists will say anything to prevent being sidelined by the brand and lose access to their cars. It’s so refreshing to see someone honestly report about the issues.
Or maybe they wanna support their favorite brands? And don’t want it to be bankrupt ?
Fabio Neto in which case they can brand their content as advertisements and not ‘reviews’. Let’s not support the false air of editorial integrity.
The thing is, the bullshit works. Speak to people who read EVO magazine and they will regurgitate it like it's holy scripture. Whatever EVO says is 100% true. So if you're a manufacturer, bung EVO magazine a few quid, offer them some exclusive access, job done. Fun cars don't offer bragging rights to the uninitiated like fast/rare ones do. And so much of car ownership now is the illusion of impressing people you don't know.
Rule #1 =Look after the customer!, No customer's no business / no jobs ! , Great video James !
Make sure to pack a suitcase full of cash when driving a McLaren so you can throw bundles of it out the window as the odometer ticks off the miles. That is, if the odometer is working.
Of course it was the departure of Ron Dennis. He is McLaren!
That a dodgy door latch is equivalent to wheels falling off when your car's away being fixed is a great point!
Doubleplusgood or your biggest hyper super duper car consistently catching fire
Sounds absolutely spot on to me, the troubles they have coming are completely of their own making, great cars, dubious management and shocking dealers.
Ferrari might be up their own arse on a lot of things but they have preserved the value of the brand and will still have a business after all this crap is over
good engineers and good managers are leaving now the company.. the management is a problem
there..
Looks like the Lotus engineers brought their lack of reliability and detail-engineering with them to McLaren
18000rpm last few years Lotus seem to have improved their reliability massively so maybe McLaren did Lotus a favor taking those engineers ;)
Lotuses are pretty reliable for the level of performance. Their running costs are So much lower than a McLaren (pretty obviously) as is their purchase price. Sounds like a Camry would be perfect for you; i'm sure you'd consider a Lotus with a Toyota engine way-too unreliable for someone like yourself. (A Pussy)
@@Dave.S.TT600 Lotus just needed to get the weatherstripping right and fit and finish in the cabin passable.
Toyota did all the driveline for them and they can't get that right
If producing too many models is McLaren's fault, then I'm sure it's not what these Lotus engineers brought there.
Maybe they forgot to bring the Toyota engines with them & instead went with Honda's "GP2 engine" ;)
James May once said "When you buy a Ferrari, you're not just buying the car. You're buying 50+ years of motor sporting aura behind the brand..."
That was on Top Gear many moons ago.
McLaren is not quite there.
When the old man died all them idiots buying cars that are fiats , the best most prestigious cars are the ones the old man was involved with
Mia Wallace no denying that, like with anything though, the Brand must evolve or risk going under. FIAT gave him a bailout by buying into them when Enzo was faced with a takeover from Ford. Bugatti would have still been under had it not been for VW, they still make great cars, now though, they have a board to answer to and things do get bureaucratic.
McLaren had their 50th anniversary 7 years ago...
Craig McAllister yes, but they didn’t make their own road cars until the McLaren F1 in the 1990s. Yes, they’ve created a roadgoing can am car in 67 (that was just a one-off) and made tuned up versions of the Foxbody Mustang and assisted development of the Buick GNX in the 80s, but before the McLaren F1, they only focused on strictly racing.
@@devandrasimanjuntak1646 The F1 was and still is the best "supercar" with room for three and storage, just like a real car.
This is exactly what Elon musk means when he says the car makers and dealers and customers interests aren’t aligned. It’s makers vs dealers vs customers.
Most informative 39 minutes odd of Motoring tv I've ever saw, cheers for that one!!! All that finance stuff is an eye opener (and has given me an idea!!!)
I signed up to drive one owned by Xtreme Experience years ago. It was unavailable when I went to drive and I was given a discount on a different car. I was told they couldn't keep it running long enough to use for their track driving business. I was more than happy with the GT3 I ended up driving.
Just Incase y'all forgot the best McLaren ever had a BMW engine
We remember
No petrol head can ever, ever forget that car.
Bmw was also in f1 and if you know engineering and not just a casual car fan that base it on the brand then you would know how insane that s70 bmw engine was. Trust me bmws are shit but thats engine is formula 1 tech up to the dual throttle bodies
And all current ones have what is inherently, a Nissan engine....
@@Gr0t0tter Explain?
Mclaren only make's one car with the same engine, they just sell many versions of it. The only car they should make i.m.o is the 570s.
And maybe the 570gt...
But I prefer the S.
But Please improve reliability and overall cost of long term ownership. I don't mind depreciation. It allows us modest earners to choose our jumping in point, based on age, model, options and reputation on a sliding scale. But we mortals need reasonable levels of reliability and service/repair costs.
Ya I wish they would make something other than twin turbo V8’s
@@Realpaul2k Well don't they have a V6 Hybrid in the works now? Due to crappy emissions regulations.
cough cough Ferrari too. cough cough bmw and Audi as well. AND FORD, Honda.
650S was the version which fixed the issues of the 570S. The only thing the 650S is lacking is the rear styling which unfortunately is a nagging dislike as it looks very 90's on what is a very modern super car and reliable supercar
"Carmaker McLaren clashes with bondholders over emergency financing: Investors say they already have claim to ‘heritage cars’ to be pledged in new debt" - Financial Times
Absolutely love my 570S. It's the best car I've ever driven, driving the new Ferrari F8 just confirmed to me how much more engaging and communicative the 570S is. I really really hope McLaren gets their business together and improve reliability of the cars, I want my next car to be a McLaren as well.
I am bored of modern cars. I would put money in a classic Porsche before I bought a McLaren or even new 911
Fletch fact! And the reward is so much better driving an classic air cooled porsche.
@DS Plus modern regulations on safety, emissions, sound, etc... have somewhat ruined cars by increasing weight and reducing the theatre/drama that we all love.
Haha, just wait till EVs, its gonna be even more miserable
New cars are just to fast and sophisticated. They are just frustrating to drive in a way that doesn't put your licence on the line every second you drive them.
Just buy a tvr for 30 grand and you're much hapier.
Porsche...your kidding..lol
In my mind there are two McLaren cars - The super fast expensive one (i.e. P1 and the other thing), and the 'normal one'. They all blend into one another to me.
The reliability and dealership crap reminds me a lot of Lotus too. I love my Evora, but Lotus Munich ended up screwing me over big time (plenty of lies, going to end up in court), and the fit and feel just isn't in the same league as other high performance cars I've owned or driven.
The thing about these brands is that you buy them with your heart, while your head is shouting no! Other brands, the head and heart work together.
Jut1233456 Agreed, they do seem to merge into one. I find it very hard to discern one model from another. They do nothing for me.
So funny. Used to own two Lotus, horrible experience (despite the great crowd of owners). Then got into Porsche / Porsche GT cars. A while in, I lusted after a McL, drove a Sport Series (Super Series too expensive for me) on track and figured it is not for me (unfinished product), despite the cheap 2nd hand prices...
@@trackdays7625 I have a Lotus Esprit GT3. No problems at all, and the value is going up every day.
I have had two lotus, almost 10 years ownership. If your looking for fit and finish, Lotus is the wrong car for you, they are basically stripped down cars, no insulation or comfort, lotus should of never built the Evora as a Porsche competitor, as Lotus can not do finish. The elise and exige, models are fine, they are basic and they do that well. My Exige is like a Corrola, probably the most reliable car i have ever had, just not plush or comfort. That is Lotus.
@@waynosfotos At this point I'd just be happy if it was reliable. You would think that it's difficult to screw up a Toyota engine with a supercharger bolted to the top, but godamn, I've had more engine management lights in 10 months than a decade in my s2000, not to mention the shoddy trim (noticed the adhesive on the back of the seat is coming off now).
The insanity of buying a McLaren is best explained by Dave Lister from Red Dwarf;
*"That's the metaphorical equivalent of flopping your wedding tackle into a lion's mouth and flicking his love spuds with a wet towel. Total insanity."* - Dave Lister (Red Dwarf - Rimmerworld)
As 40-minute unscripted monologue+rants go, this one was pretty entertaining and enlightening.
Sanghoon Lee. He says he’s actually written a script the start of the video!
Content like this is exactly why you have the community you do. Good stuff. Sometimes the bare facts need to be laid out. Let's hope you shake the proverbial tree.
I know three people that own McLarens. All three spend a fair amount of time in the shop. The owners are frustrated to say the least. When I see a McLearn in traffic, I don’t block it and I give it all the road it needs, as I know the owner is having a rare experience of actually having his car out of the shop and on the road. I do the same thing for V12 Jags.
McLaren reminds me of a lyric from The Fall: Made with the highest British attention, to the wrong detail.
Ha ha! What a bizarre reference. Mark E Smith would be livid. The most popular car with the average spoilt victorian child!
Exactly! Hit the Nail on the head with that incisive comment!!!!
just off to visit Mr Pharmacist see if he can help me understand the McLaren situation. (in his usual lovely way of course)
Just like TVR😅.
@@josephmclaren2789 yes sir, then off to cruisers creek with the elastic man because I'm totally wired!
Looks like your prediction was spot on! As soon as I heard the news today, i thought of your pic of the factory with the 'for sale' sign.
I love these vids - you're very interesting to listen to & your delivery is excellent 👍🏻
That's Bod ditto that! I. Depth analysis which I doubt McLaren relish.
Everything you said is spot on and the frighting thing is that the senior management don't have the desire to actually change, all they will do is to ride to gravy train until it runs dry then they will jump ship and get another management role at another company and repeat the same thing all over again.
McLaren is making too many models and none of them seem to have there own special personality its like a mate of yours wearing a different outfit throughout the week, at there core they are all the same underneath. As for the big special models you need to give it more time between them, the P1 was successful due to the fact the last hyper McLaren was 20 years before it, if you throw out an eye watering expensive model often you better have that car completely unique from the last for it to work. I like the idea of a partnership with Honda 👍 could be some great opportunities there for McLaren to be involved in fast hatches to saloons etc aswell as supercars with a company that understands reliability and build quality, that could be quite a special bond.
McLaren and Honda, what could go wrong there!! Lets get Alonso as CEO.
I know it sounds good but the Civic Type R is pretty good already (other than how it looks), not sure how McLaren would improve it.
@@Harpreet06 Mugen always find a way why couldn't McLaren?
@@andrewgurney6019 The McLaren and Honda built MP4/ 4 was one of the most dominant formula 1 cars in history. yes there have been more challenging times in recent years but honda were in a new F1 era when they joined McLaren this time around, honda always said it would take a few years to catch up with modern F1 and now they are producing race winning competitive engines for red bull who are extremely happy as a result.
@@Harpreet06 maybe McLraen could get their idiotic styling department to make the Civic look even sillier.
I decided I'd never buy a used McLaren when I saw Hoovies' white McLaren that had multiple gearbox replacements that the dealer couldn't really fix properly (simply replacing with a new one isn't REALLY a fix)
Me too. I was looking to upgrading my Peugeot 106 diesel...but they can bugger right off now.
I wouldn’t pay much attention to anything hoovie does, he buys dogs that people have used and abused, which seems to be the American way of owning exotic cars, they think they can maintain them themselves and then wonder why they break🙄🙄🙄🙄
@@Jabber-ig3iw Hoovie is a legend!
He purposely buys sh1tboxes to do them up and talk about how stupid he is for doing what hes doing. I love his stuff, it's very entertaining and often funny.
The guy is no idiot though. You just have to look at his garage, what he has with the wizard and the other bmw chap he uses to see that his channel has made him a wealthy chap.
And hes a tremendously likeable fellow to boot.
@@animalcol1 I enjoy his channel, but im sure he was a wealthy chap to begin with.
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne Yeh 106 RN or Independence 1.5d.
Buy one, drive it for a few years then make a video. My 12C was awesome over 2.5 years and 14k miles. It had a few niggles but was a staggering car. Same with my 675LT I drove it 2,200 miles in 6 weeks prior to lockdown and it was faultless and utterly staggering. I have been fortunate to own and drive some amazing cars but nothing in the supercar world comes close to a McLaren. The world is changing with electrification, road safety and autonomous driving. We should be enjoying these cars while we can and remembering the vast majority of owners have no issues and those that do are rectified by the comprehensive warranty.
The rate they're dropping in price I might actually buy one soon!
@@JayEmmOnCars go for it! Then you will experience ownership 1st hand. As Bruce McLaren said life is measured in achievements not in years and the same applies for cars in that you measure the ownership by the enjoyment and experiences not by the financial cost. I remember all the road trips i had in my 12C not what it cost me. If you dont make memories in a car, any car, then its worthless. No one goes on a dream holiday then expects to get a return and its the same with a supercar, enjoy it, make memories and it will have been worth its weight in gold.
@@bispal Nicely said. The cars are about passion and not financial calculations. Before I bought my 570GT last year I knew there is gonna be a massive drop in sales price - and didn't bother! Yet alone the scissor doors are worth it to me. That grin on my face every time I get into the car is just priceless. Feelin like a child and lookin forward to many more roadtrips and bespoken memories - not to mention the thumbs up you receive on the road from all the people appreciate this rare piece of engineering
@@JayEmmOnCars not worth it yet mate, the 550 deserves to stay around longer than that
In my over 30 years of existence, I think you can’t go wrong with Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini for a supercar that is worth over USD $200,000. There may be newcomers and they may be better or worse. But those 3 brands have always made the most memorable supercars for decades.
A really simple fix for Mclaren would be to release the manuals to the independents. If you lower the cost of running the car the actual residual value will go up...it's a simple equation. Also, I'll dig out Hatfield McLaren on this, I was going to buy a 570s and my first sales engagement was with a 17-year-old kid....a £100k supercar and you're speaking with a 17-year-old who hadn't actually passed his drivers test, that put me off doing a deal....glad I did as that car would be £25k cheaper a year down the line.
Ron Dennis was McLaren.
The boardroom take over pushed him out and really threw the baby out with the bath water.
Ron knew that you could never win a F1 championship using a rivals engine. He brought back Honda and stuck with them knowing it was the only way to win again.
After they forced Ron out, they put a Renault Espace engine in the back of my beloved McLaren and I couldn't bear to watch anymore.
I think the main error a small manufacturer can make is build more models that could "steal clients to each other".
I counted 9 models without ultimate series... Too many for a 5k year selling car manufacturer.
I'd like a more splitted lineup, 720hp and 500hp or even less.
Competitors have more options in house, v10/v12/v8 NA or turbo... Mclaren has always the same v8 turbo and different power.
My dream: mclaren calling Murray and offers to produce the new t50 branded as new mclaren F1. 🤞🤞🤞
great video. basically 2 problems. 1. they have always been massively unreliable and thus don't hold their value. 2. the whole range is pretty much various deviations on the same car. NB - every person I know who has owned one, has sold with in a year and will never buy one again. I have driven a 720s, I will say it was a seriously great car to drive, however poor build quality was immediately noticeable. PS - I would NEVER buy one, new or used. and if they go under it will be no surprise to me.
A part of me sees this and thinks "oh no, rich people won't be able to buy stupidly expensive and impractical cars anymore". I'm really trying but i can't seem to make myself give a shit....
There are plenty of other companies where they can buy those still. Also if Mclaren is gone there is less competition, so less technological advancements, wich in a later stage could end up in a car you can afford. (dual clutch for example)
@@sneaky_krait7271 It's a nice idea but I'm inclined to think they are totally irrelevant and I'm a manual man anyway ;)
@@stu0508 They for sure aren't irrelevant, their automotive buisness is worth 1,2 billion euros, already a third of Ferrari. The same goes for your manual, because there was so much competition companies had to develop better manuals
Could be sooner than you thought; McLaren Group presently looking for £200 million funding by July 17th to stay afloat, with the factory, F1 cars and everything nailed-down already having been mortgaged, according to some creditors.
What a miserable forecast for McLaren. Imagine if you worked for them and how you’d feel after watching this joyful vid.
This video was created after feedback from McLaren employees. Trust me, nothing in this video is a surprise to ANYONE who works there.
JayEmm on Cars this comment is more eye opening than the video...
JayEmm on Cars, Wow, the staff morale must be at an all time low. Let’s hope the future is better.
Well thought out and presented video, I enjoyed watching. It surprises me how poor the basic business understanding is of highly paid CEO’s 😯 in the motoring industry.
Interesting video: you’ve adapted well to putting out quality content while staying at home!
What you're saying; which I know to be true, they are stuffing the retail channel. Lots of companies have tried this in the past; it always ends badly. Sometimes ends in prosecutions. At the very least, it destroys the brand.
Interesting video, James. Based on the information you have uncovered about McLaren's business practices I would agree with your prediction: McLaren will need to be wound up in order to write off the accumulated problems of its past before a relaunch is possible.
Funny how Tyler Hoovie from Hoovie’s Garage got rid of his McLaren quite quickly. Parts availability was a friggin joke and the quality of the car was distinctly sketchy in places. It’s a shame as McLaren makes some stunning cars- but yes, appeal to far too many rich customers and a limited range catering for a small and - if the economy is going after Covid19 - dimishing sector.
Excellent video Jay, very well balanced and no hype like you get in a mainstream media.
Time for BMW to finally combine with Mclaren and have a super car brand
An most interesting and brilliant analysis of a situation, which sadly will apply to many car marques, not just McLaren, that is being made even worse by the current lock down. I think Covid19 will change people's habits towards taking on debt and the willingness to use finance to fund the purchase of really expensive cars, and indeed to borrowing money in general. I admire your courage to speak out about the impending situation for McLaren, I just pray that you are not mysteriously found floating face down in the River Stour. Stay in your shed making videos, and make sure that the knock at the door really is your Tesco delivery! Stay safe!
How deliciously dark!!
I too hope it's the Tesco delivery knock on the door. I've grown quite fond of Js content!!
Which River Stour ? Thats the question.
@@MikeWooshy The one in Suffolk is nearest, otherwise, a long way to take a body........
@@TwizyMan as there are 3 River Stours in the country, details are everything!
Startling information here, I really don't see how they're going to dig themselves out of the several holes they've put themselves in. As usual great job on the video 👍
A fascinating and well-researched piece, something you just don't find in motoring magazines these days, which are just PR rags for the car manufacturers, sadly even Autocar.
The only car journalist I really took note of was the late, great L.J.K. Setright who put me on to the engineering of Honda, and the only print car reviews I read and respect today are the ones by Andrew Frankel in 'MotorSport'. Thanks again for providing an informative and entertaining car channel.
Thankyou. You are quite right, a lot of people cite magazines and being less biased than RUclipsrs - but in fact I often find the opposite to be true
As a few have said those engineers from lotus etc that were “poached” were probably the worst of the crop. Successful manufacturers look after the best and keep hold of them.
McLaren I’m afraid always we’re doomed to fail. The business model is flawed, the brand was interesting to start but failed to gain the passion and the specials. Oh the specials. It’s like saying the normal cars are not special. You buy the normal cars like you buy bread. But bread isn’t expensive like the mainstream McLaren are.
They should have focused on small run, high quality poster cars like all the supercar manufacturers did in their infant years. Not thought they could throw money at it to buy their place in the market.
Another great piece. Not the world of cars I move in but interesting and a good listen on my daily lockdown walk. Thanks for helping us keep sane.
Very well put together! Doesn't happen often that I look a full 40-minute video on youtube.
Good video, I have a 12C and the prices have been hammered but actually not as bad as the others if you keep the miles down, i agreed with lots of what you have said, the work environment is apparently terrible and they seem to be driven by numbers more than anything. I really hope that they can address the issues, it is a mountain to climb but they will need someone very strong at the top to make the changes needed.
Milton Keynes what's your issue. Traffic flows well, hardly any hold ups. Plenty of parking.
As for the 12C it was a mess and constantly breaking down.
McLaren were always doomed to fail. Not only because of their reliability issues but their appalling customer service. When spending 100k plus on a car, your customer service should be second to none. You want the customer feeling overly satisfied with what they have bought. Many McLaren dealers are selling cars and then ignoring their clients issues leaving them stranded with a car which doesn't function. This racks up a bad reputation. Bad reputation means no new customers or repeating business. Failure is your fate. They still have time to change but I very much doubt they will. All it take is to invest that extra money into making sure that your cars are built to last...Making sure every client is a priority...
I’d hate so see Mclaren go. Ever since the 12c came I have fell in love with them and I hope one day to get one for my self.
Same here. Careful though it's apparently much cooler on the internet to say they always breakdown and I'd never buy one even when based on nothing more than what everyone else is saying
They won't just like aston someone will buy em up and mclaren name will live on
The Speedtail loooks like an engineer nightmare, the Elva is useless, unsold Senna slots (a design only a mother could love...). And the major Mc Laren problem : they are incredibly arrogant. Even with their customers, which is suicidal.
And on par with the McLaren Speedtail, the AMG GT-one is so late because of so many technical development problems that the customers will get bored with the car before even driving it. (And yes, it is fugly too...).
Thanks for uploading, this series has been really insightful as someone who aspires to have their own low volume sports car company in the future, almost a “not to do list” 😂
Personally I hope McLaren Automotive can sort these issues as it would be nice not only to have them as a halo brand for British manufacturing but also as an employer, as an automotive design student it would be great if there were as many studios in the UK employing graduates as possible.
McLaren is the Richard Mille of the car world, except Mille are successful because they create demand by making there watches with incredible profit margins but keep stock artificially low, so creating demand.Both are desirable products but not the quality that their customers think they are buying into.
I'm not an RM fan at all.
You're completely correct in your analogy imo.
Much better to purchase an
A. Lange & Söhne (aka Porsche) for the exquisite engineering.
McLaren should do a deal with Honda and make the dc2... a cheap, affordable and reliable two seat coupe for the masses. I'm confident people would buy it globally.
Could you imagine... Honda supplies the chassis, McLaren tweaks it, fits a forced induction B18c and then they sell it for 25k. None of this modern electronic interference, just a McLaren RACECAR for everyone!!
How they could possibly make profit in that? The integra was based on a civic chassis which they were making in the millions..what are McClaren suppsoe to do? Abandon the carbon tub and start making a car from 20 years ago? A car that didn't even that well originally? Its a ridiculous idea ..its like asking Bang & Ofluson to make a mini disc player because a few internet enthusiasts pretend that they want one. Toyota tried to make the car everyone said they wanted in the gt86 and all people still bought blown hatches..this is probably the dumbest thing I've read in a long time
dagnut I think the idea is not to use the original dc2 chassis but rather to collaborate with Honda to make a modernised version of a dc2, probably using a civic chassis and McLaren work their magic and put their name on it. The problem is it would probably mess with the brand image if they’re selling million pound HyperCars and 250k super cars and then a hot hatch
@@dagnut You say the dc2 "didn't do that well".
Someone above mentioned a quote from Enzo Ferrari about limiting production. The point of that being, a thing is not special if it is easily available. Honda understood this and valued brand image over sheer profit. They also recognised that only a minority can appreciate a truly great chassis. That is why you didn't see millions of them around.
Regardless, the dc2 Type R (one of which I owned for 7yrs and is the best fwd car I've ever driven [really, properly driven]), was in high demand.
See quote: "The Integra Type R arrived in UK showrooms in 1997. Actually, most were forward sold on the back of glowing reviews in Japan, where it had been on sale since 1995, so few ever saw the polished glass and potted palms. Those first owners raved about the handling of the front-wheel-drive car, an experience that turned the old front-versus rear-drive debate on its head."
Source: www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/used-car-buying-guides/used-car-buying-guide-honda-integra-type-r-dc2
As for your comment about the GT86 and most people buying blown fwd hatches.. ot's interesting that the quote above talks to this point too. Powerful "sporty" cars are now much more widely available due to marketing power and they are widely "bought" through finance deals. The majority of people value power over finesse. And many of those same people lack the ability to manage a rwd chassis.
The dc2 Type R was (as stated in serious tests by respected motoring press including EVO) the best fwd car ever made. A good fwd chassis is as much a source of handling reward as a rwd one. They have their place. But truly scintillating versions if both are not for the masses. They are for the minority who can truly appreciate them.
Felt I had to defend the car that I have felt most passionate about out of all I have owned. Sad that I had to sell it. I really hope to get one into the garage one day in the future.
Edit: I should add that when I read comments from people using words like "ridiculous" and "dumbest", I can't help but engage in discussion. Maybe you enjoy getting slapped down by those with superior reasoning ability.
I'm thinking a McLaren-Honda Civic could be the Renault Clio Williams of the 2020s...
Fascinating insights James - great video. Sounds like the company is simply being run by wheeler dealers to me. It’s about the sale in the moment, not the product at the end or even the person that buys it.
A real shame as they could have been so much more. At least they didn’t build an SUV 🤪
You’re good J. Really good. This vid is just pure pleasure!
Couldn’t agree more...got a 911 on order didn’t even consider the McLaren for exactly the reasons you state...
I have a Peugeot 106 diesel. I never considered McLaren as they don't make a 106 diesel....
Yeah, jokes on you. I've got a Kia Picanto on order.
This reminds of nick Murray’s viral video although it was sorted out and he’s had several Porsche since so the customer service seems to be a lot better
@@cheekyboy-ho9ub Kia Picanto..? Stop showing off...
cheekyboy5000 Poser 😉
Hi James, great video and insight regarding the issues and challenges facing Mclaren.
Mclaren finished 2019 off with a bang showing an increase in both revenue and car sales. It's recently appointed a new executive chairman with immediate effect and has secured a further £300m of investment from Bahrain. The Bahrain Sovereign Wealth Fund has been a longtime investor in Mclaren hence why Mclaren have their Middle East and Africa office there.
Will Mclaren go bankrupt? No it won't but I do think a potential shake up could well happen to rectify the quality control issues. I also think there will be a drive to address the issues they currently have with their dealers and the network. Mclaren currently build around 5000 cars a year less than the 10 000 cars Ferrari builds. Since 2012 Mclaren have launched a slew of cars to the detriment quality and indeed resale of which Mclaren probably equals Aston Martin in that regard.
There are a few things Mclaren need to do to.
First they need to sort out quality control issues
Second increase the product life cycle.
Third, release less "special editions.
Fourth, work on sorting out their volume sellers in terms of quality, resale value and financing.
Fifth, diversfy the range without having to build a SUV. so maybe something to compete with Ferraris Roma.
There is no doubt that Mclaren are going to be deeply affected by the current global crisis but I think they will bounce back. Maybe 2020s annus horriblis will be a blessing to them rather than a curse and allow them to reset. Only time will tell.
I commented on one of your previous videos where the father and son had problems and said I will stick to my current car till I see what happens, well since then I have purchased something else however the mclaren dealer I was talking to at the time has offered me the same car I turned down at a 25% discount now, at the time they denied (and still deny) problems, but thanks to your clips I know better. Thank you for speaking truth to power.
Wow! Brilliant and compelling video. I love McLaren too and hope they survive but this video was quality and fascinating viewing. Keep up the good work.
Very good analysis and I’m afraid that even if a new management started today it would be too late anyway, the damage having already been done. It’s quite sad as the company had so much potential...
Great video. I'm almost glad sometimes I'll never afford to buy one. You can see why so many were tempted to buy with such a crazy finance deal. I wonder what Shmee is thinking now. Has he been in touch?
I looked at a McLaren 570 S and decided not to buy because of the amount of cars they are releasing and I was worried about the resale value. The other large problem is the dealer network for repairs and the cost of parts since they keeping releasing cars and discontinuing cars and the parts from the newer models are being modified to work .I am the guy they are looking for and I agree they will need to change. I currently have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Lamborghini Urus, Ferrari California and Ferrari 458. I have decided to stay away from these cars
You're one of the few people I can watch for 39 minutes of monologue. Is this what they call Stockholm syndrome?
Only if J kidnapped you and played his episodes on a loop for months on end.
I'd be fine with that btw. Just need an occasional snooze and a nose bag on occasion and everything would be golden 😊
Aaaaaaalrighty then
When the 12c first came out i went to a race track to drive one ( laps ). I ws told that the 12C had a transmission failure just few hours earlier , and the 2nd backup car was already sent to another state to be fixed a week earlier !
Now that wasn't a good sign at the time . ( eventually got to drive it few months later )
Now the thing with Mclaren , unlike other sport car manufacturers , they keep introducing almost the same car every couple of years keeping the public guessing is that a replacement , a new line ...!?!? kept people and buyers a bit confused until they got the hang of it , but it frustrating to buy a car that will be replaced in 2-3 years !!
Now with Lotus is very healthy financial shape what would be the irony of them taking over McLaren!! lol
They are still really a niche brand bought by enthusiasts tho
Dave B so true, they produce amazing drivers cars
McLarens lose value like no other car....... they are also remarkably unreliable and expensive to fix. $35,000 to replace a steering box in an $85k car that sold new for $250k 5 years ago? F-that. They deserve to go under.
I have never found these 'special editions' that Mclaren release to be all that special.
When every car you release is based essentially off the same engine or the same chassis then all you're getting is different states of tune & different carbon fibre cladding.
I'm not one of these people who seems to want British firms to fail, I'd love to see Mclaren turn this situation around, I also think the British worker is more than capable of turning out top quality workmanship.
The Swindon Honda plant is currently making the best cars they've ever made, pity they'll all be without work soon.
Perhaps Mclaren need to poach some of the soon available Honda line workers?
@@gazzabrownhigh8891 If you're offering me seat time in both I'll happily take you up on your kind offer.
@@gazzabrownhigh8891 not in terms of cost of ownership though, and that's the problem.
Zerofightervi every McLaren is a special car. The ‘specials’ are that bit more so. Actually, a lot more so.
The Carbon Fibre tub is an amazingly good place to start. I think CF is used in the chassis of F1 cars? Is there a more exotic option that they should be using?
And that’s before you think about anything else they do.
As for different models, let’s look at Porsche 911 (which are also good cars) just in the one range: 911, you’ve got these...
Carrera coupe
Carrera convertible
Carrera S coupe
Carrera S convertible
Carrera 4S coupe
Do they do a Carrera 4S convertible?
Targa
Carrera T
GT3
GT3RS,
GTS,
GT2RS,
Turbo coupe
Turbo convertible
Turbo S coupe
Turbo S convertible
Speedster
Mclaren Sport Series has:
540C
570S
570S Spider
570GT
600LT
600LT Spider
What do you think VW, Audi, SEAT and Skoda have been doing for years and years?
I think you're right, they could be the next De Lorean. What you have explained as a feasible reality in the accounts dept of McLaren would seem to lend itself to this emergency loan suddenly emerging today to avoid future struggles and avoid Mr Administrator. A good set of video's, I'm going to re-watch the story of De Lorean and also how GM are currently sinking, the Showrooms are the sales, without Hertz as well, the cliff edge seems to be coming into view for the industry that has vast surplus stocks of unsold cars.
Ferrari are playing the same game now with their model line up just to compete!
They seem to be doing a much better job than McLaren from this perspective at least!
Ferrari really took their time to develop their cars. I mean, we haven't even seen SF90 Stradale on reviews. Let's hope they didn't do The McLaren and effed up.
Especially Roma. It looks like Roma is built specifically to target Aston Vantage, heck it even looks like a Vantage designed by an Italian.
Your vids give always different angle on things. Thanks for the insight.
"poor" SHMEE 150.....
I think Mclaren is not really fully aware of their own image. It really is an Specialist company, an F1 TEAM, and until the 90's had no previous significant heritage on road cars other than the FABULOUS Mclaren F1. To go as a car manufacturer expose them to the real world which is very sticky. You have to have a GREAT aftermarket service, several models, all with proper build quality, and so and so forth. The P1 was an exception, because it was immediately compared to Superbrands like Ferrari and Porsche and was special enough to be build with extreme care. So to Mclaren, To make two or three models make sense, but to make all that, without infrastructure, it is pure insane greed.
McLaren makes their parts so expensive owners are reluctant to own their cars out of warranty.
Adrian Newey said in an interview that the problem with Ron Dennis is that he was obcessed with the succcess of Ferrari. Once at a dinner party he spent two hours talking about the fact that Ferrari sold ALL the Enzo in less than one hour. And he just could not see why anyone would want to buy one and not a McLaren. Smart man!
What a well-reasoned article this was. Thoroughly enjoyed it and agree - particularly the mathematics of the leasing argument. What is just so extraordinary is the fact that the financing companies accepted the principal that McLaren would provide the value for the balloon payment/Gttd Minimum Value. These valuations, if as optimistic as you say, are bordering on fraud on behalf of McLaren toward their finance 'partners'. It is incredible to me that the leasing coys allowed this basis - are you sure about this Jay ?
What you will find is that going forward McLaren will be forced to adjust their GFV - Aston Martin did a similar thing, their GFV on a Vantage dropped by about 10% after the end of last year, as a result of them selling lots off cheap
I'm a retired Florida State Trooper with 25 years of L.E. service, and I have never even once seen a McLaren on the road.
Great video thanks for posting, it's good to hear of things from this side.
When David Brown was asked why he would continue to build cars despite making big losses every year, he responded that building cars was the only thing he was good at. He didn't see making cars as a shrewd business but more as a hobby. In the end, most car journalists would agree that without Aston Martin, the car world would be a lot poorer.
Thank you. I was entertained. I thought I might own one in the not to distant future but, the new Vette is here. The new Vette may have a few problems in the beginning, but I know it will work when needed. I hope Mclaren are able to fix this monster?
You give good insight to choosing right when considering a purchase of such cars.. I'm at an older age and about to treat myself to my first true performance car however, your GREAT presentation of reasoning has become very timely and welcoming.. THANK YOU.. All the best from NZ..
Spot on re finance. Current 570 owner and won’t be going back for more. But went in eyes open with high GFV. Main reason for purchase and loved it with no issues at all
Is the GFV a U.K. thing? I've never heard of it here in the states, but I'm not very familiar with leasing either, or is it not on leases but straight purchase finances?
@@brianlb78 It's a hybrid of purchasing and leasing that allows for a lower monthly payment by adding a final lump sum to the end of the contract if you want to buy the car. Say I wanted to buy a $100,000 car and had a $20,000 deposit. I'd have $80,000 left to finance, lets say over 4 years. Ignoring interest and other charges the minimum I'd have to pay per year would be $20,000, but I can only afford half that. A Personal Contract Purchase (PCP) back loads the payments, assuming the car will have a residual value at the end of the finance. For the purposes of this example, let's say that, at the end of my 4 years, the finance company reckons my $100,000 car will be worth $40,000, so removing that and the $20,000 deposit from the price means I only have to finance $40,000 over the contract. When the contract comes to an end, there are three options:
1. treat it like a lease, hand the car back to the dealer and walk away (assuming the condition and mileage are within agreed parameters) free and clear.
2. pay the outstanding balance (called the balloon payment) and own the car outright.
3. if the car is worth more than the outstanding balance, trade the car in, using the equity as deposit on the new car.
By inflating the GFV to cheapen the finance, McLaren has created a situation where customers will find they don't have any equity in the car at the end of the contract, ruling out option 3 above. Any customer with good sense would be reluctant to pay above market price to pay off the balance of the car's finance, when they could buy a used model of similar age for less, ruling out option 2. This leaves option 1, and McLaren dealers getting back a glut of cars that are worth a less than they owe the finance company. Supply will exceed demand and dealers will have to heavily discount the used cars to sell them, so reducing the residual value of new cars and making the problem worse. Rinse and repeat until they run out of money.
Great video. Every word is correct. I would add an additional important issue which will contribute to sinking McLaren: McLaren is essentially selling its cars to the same customer base. It is not expanding its customer base. And since the customer get clobbered on residual value, the trick will not work many times. And one more issue: McLarent caught Ferrari off-guard with the 488, but with the F8 and the 296 GTB, there is no reason to go look anywhere else and the same is true for the 992 Porsche.
Having watched this start to end it sounds like Mclaren need to stop building cars for 6 months!
I'm a bit of a self-proclaimed newbie when it comes to these matters so its very refreshing to hear a video like this that discusses the finer points of (super)car ownership that you otherwise would not hear about. To be clear I own an F-Type (and love it for what was twice weekly commute now long past), aspire to an R8 and dream of a McLaren. I don't know whether its 5+ weeks of lockdown and not driven once other than a 'cirtculate the oil' trip 'to the supermarket constable', but I'm now thinking that all this money spent on cars is a complete and utter waste of money. I guess if amplified that would add to car manufactures woes. the World won't be the same after this, not for me anyway. Great video btw.