The Climbing Magnets Mystery (ft. Steve Mould)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- When spun on a screwdriver, magnets climb up its length, but why?
This video brought to you by my friend Steve Mould: ve42.co/SteveMould
This all started with a question on twitter, when someone wanted to know why a chain of neodymium magnets climbs up a screwdriver when the screwdriver is rotated. A search for the explanation ensued, culminating in the stick-slip conclusion presented in this video. Let us know what you think in the comments.
My left ear enjoyed the start
I was thinking the same.
And the end.
My right one didn't
Yeah me too
Sounds like the microphone was broken, and the audio was not looked at
In my head, I was already constructing a complicated device to spin it with a smaller radius at the top. Then Steve just turns the screwdriver upside down. Now i feel stupid 😁
Paul Paulson haha, same here. I am sure we would have come to that conclusion briefly though lol.
Guess I am joining your club...it was obvious...and also wrong!
I was thinking the same exact thing. You weren't the only one.
that is a pretty fair explanation, and the most obvious one. specially because it does happen with other things. its damn mindblowing that its actually gravity and not the radius of the spin that makes it move.
Occam's Razor, you betray us once more
ME "Well that's easy to answer..."
Steve "If you turn upside down, it still goes up"
ME "Alright... I still a dumb mf"
Why is this on 2veritasium and not on the main channel?
Steve Mould is High quality content!
Exactly, if you want to get people to check out Steve's channel then show this to 4.6 mil people rather than just .5 mil.
@@robinsparrow1618 5 mil. am i missing something here?
@@TheSmith645 .5 mil
half a million
4.6 is bigger than .5
@@robinsparrow1618 damn i missed the dot before 5
@@TheSmith645 all good
What if the magnets are square?
I'll test that on monday, I ordered 12mm cubic magnets. If the video is correct, I shouldn't observe the effect !
My thoughts exactly. My guess is that the square magnets won't remain "flat", they will reorient to be diamonds, then process up the screwdriver by the same means on the now-angled side.
I have 130 square magnets here...I could test it now...but I would have to unpack a bunch of the magnets and that's a PITA. I'll just wait and see what Benjamin has to say Monday. ;)
Just leaving this here to get reminded once u answer.
same here
@Benjamin and while you're at it, spin it clockwise and anti-clockwise to check if the created electric field has something to do with it
Marvel: "Avengers Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover event in history"
Veritasium: "hold my beer."
Haha wow I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the title XD
Added Kina we're memers at heart, memers for life
I was literally watching Infinity War videos when I saw this in my Sub.
No Thank You I disagree. Steve Mould is an amazing science guy on RUclips and this is called a collaboration. For main content, you should watch Veritasium not 2Veritasium. However, I do agree that he doesn't seem to give two shits about his content or scheduling these days, just posts when he wants to
It's like Magneto teaming up with Iron Man.
4 seconds into video... "uhm... centrifugal force? How is that not obvious?"
1:00 into the video... "oh... okay... never mind then..."
5:30 "Ooooh! Because gravity! Okay."
Same. I always thought it was centrifugal force.
I am amazed to be wrong about something so simple.
I thought it was Eddy currents (the same thing that happens when you drop a neodymium magnet through a foil tube or copper pipe)
Isn't it general relativity and quantum mechanics that don't get along? I'm pretty sure QFT and even the Dirac Equation are perfectly happy with special relativity...
Yeah, at 6:05 he says general relativity, the first time was probably a stick and slip of the tongue ! :P
yes qft = qm + sr basically, its gravity thats the problem, im sure steve knows this prob just a hiccup he didnt catch
As soon as I heard him say that, I hit ctrl+f "special" to see if anybody had commented on it. It's inconsistent with general relativity, but Feynman made special relativity work with quantum mechanics.
I was wondering that myself!
Quantum Field Theory (QFT) is the unification of special relativity and quantum mechanics.
The real challenge is unifying QFT with _general_ relativity.
I think he should of tried to prove his hypothesis by using square magnets
I would be curious to see if the same affect is observed with a length of all-thread rod.
should've painted the magnets on the sides and made another demo that way.
yes, chequermarked magnets and a high speed camera ought to be able to verify this
But in order to be certain this theory is correct, it needs to be tested with different variables. For example, magnets with a square cross section instead of a circle, or a change in relative size in either the metal pole (screwdriver) or the magnets to test the "roll and slip" idea.
i miss you derek
Are you a former lover of his?
Dirk from Veritablium
I miss you dalek
GAYYYYYYYYYY
He is at his thirties, he found more perspective things to do.
But yes, his videos are ones of the best on youtube.
Well, since there's no symmetry and gravity always biases it upwards... And as it moves around the screw driver, gravity is tipping the magnet roll downwards, only the bottom edge makes good contact and the strip rolls around its end. And it'll have a turning radius pointing upwards, since the "inside" of the turn is always pointing up thanks to gravity. Kind of like if you take a core of a toilet paper roll or any other cylinder, stand it up on its end on a flat surface and apply a fake "gravity" to the top, tangential to the flat surface thereby tilting the cylinder... If you then push the cylinder along such that it rolls on the remaining edge, it'll tend to translate on the surface away from the direction "gravity" is pointing in.
That was my thought anyway, before you pointed out the noise -- though I still think it would work just as well even if it could not slip.
Someone please explain what on earth I just read.
It's still just increasing centrifugal force to the top. The magnets hang to the ground, creating a upward 'track' on the axis.
Such an exciting collaboration! And really intuitively explained too- well done ☺️
why didn't he prove his explanation by using square magnets ??
You can demonstrate it by drawing a line with a marker over the magnets and do a short spin to check it it rotated the way you predicted.
FFS I rly thought my headset was broken or smth bcause of the start, you scared the shit out of me, I just bought it a few weeks ago
My headset IS broken, so I couldn't even hear him lmao
WoyablePitt Your keyboard seems broken though, there are letters missing in some of the words...
You think that’s bad?
I was listening on my phone, I thought it had blown the speaker or something... -_-
WoyablePit
So for some reason the right channel/side has no audio for your voice during the introduction... Just FYI.
Updated: @ 6:17 it's the same. Apparently either your mic was/is 'jacked' (pun intended) or maybe just some slight technical difficulties....
Again - Just wanted you to know, because I'm certain your going to get other comments on this the more the video is watched.
It's a mono mic, he recorded or imported it as stereo, so just the left channel got a signal. Happens quite a lot somehow. You'd think people would watch their videos before uploading them...
There is actually some sound on the right channel it's just really quiet. Also yeah, this keeps happening and it's quite annoying.
I am actually watching with one broaken earphone so in the part where derek is talking there is almost no audio, there is definately some audio though like Jack Evans said
Yeah, but it was still really quiet... had to turn the volume all the way up to be able to hear him on the right side.
To be played at 1.25x
wwwKx 1.5x
Saved my day
Thank you
Those are rookie numbers.
Too perfect with 1.25x
So it wouldn't work if it was oiled? Or if the magnet was curved the same shape as the rod?
Just tried with spherical magnets and they go down.
To prove this theory about gravity's role in this mystery, we should recreate it on the International Space Station where the impact of gravity is minimal. Reminds me of the feather and hammer experiment on the moon...
You could just hold the screwdriver horizontal so their is no top or bottom quicker and cheaper.
The only think I can think of (haven’t heard their explanation yet) is that magnetic fields have a flow, I think it’s clockwise, that they are acting in. It’s the same reason railguns work, you wind your electromagnets in a way where both magnetic rails have a flow that goes forward towards the tip, and the ammunition is launched that direction. Here, the forces aren’t as extreme, and the magnets don’t have anything to suspend them in open space, so friction stops them from moving, but by spinning it, you’re adding another velocity than just towards the rod, and the magnetic field’s flow makes them roll forward. My thought starts crumbling there though. Dunno if it’s friction that lets it go up, I’m just thinking that the magnets roll and maybe this is why.
Edit: well shit I was waaaay off.
what a fantastically calming way of speaking
Now we need someone in the ISS to do this experiment. Logic tells the magnets will just spin around. Probably will move up or down depending on little "vertical" movements if done by hand, since it's rather impossible to keep all axis fixed when done by a human hand.
Yep, Steve Mould definitely deserves more subscribers!
when I started watching this video, I was like, "It's so obvious", but then you turned it upside down .-.
So if we do the same experiment on the ISS (where there is no gravity) magnets don't "climb" on the stick. Correct?
Gino Giotto they should not, no,
Just a correction, there is gravity on ISS, but it's just constantly falling as it revolves around earth. It's a microgravity environment.
...or just hold the screwdriver sideways.
Hi all, I'm the OliReading who first came across this strange phenomenon - that's my tweet to Steve Mould you can see 30 seconds into the video. Very pleased it's stimulated so much discussion here, and quite pleased that the solution Steve gives is not a very obvious one!
Take a look at my twitter feed @OliReading, and also check out some of my neat magnet art at instagram.com/oligettingcrafty/
To prove your theory, I think you should make same experiment with rectangular cuboid magnet.
Wow! I was expecting this to be a fairly lame video boiling down to the tilt of the screwdriver, but I WTFed when he did it upside-down. The stick-slip explanation is gorgeous and unexpected.
This video makes me want a new adjective meaning "seemingly lame at first glance but surprisingly interesting." :)
Steve could have proved this hypothesis by spinning the magnets around a horizontal screwdriver. The result being they move in neither direction.
if the screwdriver stayed level, it shouldn't move at all
The explanation might be incorrect.
Look at 5:53, the resulting direction of the rotation of the magnets does not match with the explanation.
I think that the pivot point remains the same, but the magnets rotate downwards due to gravity and the resulting momentum, instead of rotating upwards. Then they slip upwards.
Micht be wrong, but i think that this explanation is at least not complete...
Awesome video still
S T I C C AND S L I P P
Wonder why the hula hoop on my sexy neighbors body goes up the faster she twists, whereas the hoop falls down immediately when i try the same . The answer is, she has highly magnetic personality, just like the neodymium magnets in your video. She attracts all the vermin in the lane. LOL
Now build one space elevator using that :3
Yes!
lmao genius
I like the idea, but how would you get down? Also, wouldn't it take a ridiculous amount of energy to spin something that massive?
Horrible idea.
"yeah, let's introduce a destabilizing oscillation effect into a 35,000 km orbital tether" What could go wrong?
azdgariarada What are you talking about? Spinning the tether would make it *more* stable, in fact that's how some of the first satellites were launched. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin-stabilisation
So it wouldn't happen with squared magnets?!? Could anyone check this please?
Suddenly very aware of Derek's mortality. Looks like he's aged 15 years since his last upload
because it was 15 years ago
*Puts it sideways.
*Magnet flies to space.
My first guess was what he said we thought was happening, once he he showed us that it wasn’t the way he was turning the screwdriver, I thought that the magnet could be spinning , and it just roles up the screwdriver but I had no idea why. Great explanation.
But why wouldn’t the magnet rotate the other way around the pressure point, resulting in it becoming on the upper side of the magnet, and make go down?
The momentum of the magnet and the fact that the lowest point of contact is always under the center of gravity of the magnet creates a torque thatwill make it rise, which ever way is up !
Benjamin Herisson oh right, thanks for the explanation.
Jason Karim If this were a problem of just geometry, then yes. But I don't know it would fit in 6 seconds with all the forces and points of contact taken into account.
It's a shorter route for the magnet to rotate up than down. Plus, rotating down would mean the magnet would temporarily go further away from the pole, and it doesn't want to do that.
Eddy currents are also in play in, enforcing the direction of rotation, as the opposite way would fight the eddy currents generating from the rod rotation. You can halt the magnets from pirouetting around the pole, yet the magnets will still rise :)
I watched this video for Steve Mould as he, unlike certain others, doesn't clearly have an overly inflated sense of worth.
I have no sound at all when you're speaking
Do you only have a left speaker?
I do, but it may be broken ^^
Yes, but it was off (the balance was set to "all right") for an unknown reason ^^
That's funny, this video helped you troubleshoot your pesky speaker issues. V2 FTW
Bastien Durel I think left
I really think that the real answer has to do with electric/magnetic fields. I heard that when you spin one, it creates another, or something of that style, so the magnet would feel attracted by the top
Hmm haven't we all tried this with a pencil and some kind of ring when we were little? But I guess putting magnets into anything will make it cooler.
Exactly my thoughts! Spinning a ring around a pencil makes it rise up too.
nope it just makes it go away from your hand. If you try spinning it upsite down, it'll just fall
Except those two things have nothing do do with each other and do not even show the same effect.
Now if only there were prizes of millions of dollars for people who solve mini mysteries.
I feel like with the right 3D animation this could've been explained in about 6 seconds instead of six minutes.
but it will take 60 minutes to make instead of 6 minutes XD
chan yoon jun lol
but with already over 14k views you would save more collective time.
save 5 minutes 14k times by once spending 50 minutes more would have been a good trade off
Yeah but I prefer this hands on explanation
More like 600 minutes to make, not 60.
So... My question is, does this effect work in space? I'd assume not, Since gravity plays a big role in it??
Before hearing the explanation, my guess is that it's because of the greater momentum/centrifugal force being at the top, where the swing is the largest. It's being pulled toward the greater force.
But after watching, the rotation and slipping of the magnets does appear to be the best explanation. Now, will square magnets exhibit the same climbing action? I suspect they would. And maybe do to my original hypothesis. Maybe.
Your initial (not original) hypothesis was the one he explained at the beginning of the video and which he quickly showed was false by turning the screwdriver upside down. Did you and the people who liked your comments even watch the video?
i mean, i haven't really seen the video yet but from what he's shown so far im reminded of when i used to do that using a pencil and a ruler and watch it rise from the bottom and go flying off
Oliver Reichenbach If like me they all thought the transition to the second video was going to be the explanation, and were told to make a guess before the explination, then why would you accuse them of not watching the whole video?
Square magnets wont work, but they should straighten themselves when starting at a 45 degree angle (and slightly rise in the process) according to this explanation
Love the giant props 😅
Lenz's law, change of flux in metal screwdriver hence eddy current in screwdriver which in turn oppose magnetic field of neodymium magnets, causing them to rise.
If what you say is true, it should move downwards if the screw driver is supn the other way
This can‘t be the reason, because if your argumentation would be true it wouldn‘t rise up in the experiment where he holds the ruler against the magnets. In that experiment there is no change of flux.
Even when there's a scale relative motion existed between magnet and screwdriver. As the point of contact keeps changing there is still a possibility of formation of eddy current. Might be wrong, but it's just a thought.
Gravity MUST play a part, or the chirality of spin and orientation of the screwdriver would matter
Instead, we see the magnets always traveling against the force of gravity
Lenz's law states that the emf is induced in such a way, so as to neutralize its cause. According to this if we are rotating clockwise Lenz's law should make rotate counterclockwise. It has nothing to do with up and down.
Kind of makes sense but it makes me wonder what would happen if you were using Square magnets hmmm?
As soon as he mentioned the pressure at the contact points, my brain lit up like a solar flare.
I think it rises due to pendulum of gravity compared to magnetism.
.
So gravity pulls down at a slow rate,
The magnetism pulls it back at a faster rate. Inertia is up every pendulum swing.
Oh well, actually Your physical rolling, catching the angle of the cylinder, in a downward tilt caused by gravity...
... Is a definitely likely cause, even if it wasn't magnetic.
Hey why it can't be electromagnetism ?? The magnetic flux is changing so ac current is produced in the rod , and due to self induction it also started acting as magnet.
Would be nice he marked the lines across the magnets to see it spin.
Wow, wow. But wait! If the explanation is true, you just need to draw stripes on magnets and see if they rotate in slow motion. I find the explanation to be not very convincing!
Max Vafin I find it not very convincing too
couldn't he just draw a line on the side of the magnets with a marker and film it with a fairly basic slow mo cam to verify that the magnets are rotating while they climb?
I could not manage for the life of me to watch this at normal playback speed
If this were tested on the International Space Station, would the magnets still rise in microgravity?
to test the theory - spinning a horizontal screwdriver should get rid of the proposed effect from gravity ?
I swear i knew the solution from the first 20 seconds hh i can't believe it hh
So we need to ask a astronaut in space to test this for us?
Can someone mail NASA and International Space Station?
Thank You very much!
So, according to the explanation, we deduce that it only works with cylindrical magnets, right?
This is a topic for the slo-mo guys
Steve's explanation seems cogent. This would be a great problem for Physics students, especially M.E. majors, to either confirm or provide an alternative with actual testing with measurements, data collection & analysis to support either hypothesis. This physics (mechanics) problem is very nuanced, but roughly comparable to an existing mechanism called a 'helical roller lead screw assembly'. The mechanical couple that Steve describes as having skip-slip dynamics means that the sound is a clue to the average frequency of that repetitive action; engineers call that 'creep'. This type of creep results from rollers making contact with each other along a path angled from the tangent of contact, requiring tiny periodic twists. In this experiment, the path of rolling contact would likely be a smooth helix around the screwdriver shaft, but with the helical pitch changing as the twirling speed changes, and/or magnets are added or subtracted. Students would be required to model this problem to accommodate all the significant variables well enough to make predictions.
Since this is weird, and has little prior art, it's not a problem that students could simply look up on the Internet for solutions. Physics instructors and professors could have fun with this one!
BTW, if you want an everyday mystery to solve, explain why dead alkaline batteries bounce off a hard surface and fully charged ones do not. The phenomenon is 100% reproducible. I've seen plenty of speculative explanations, but nothing that really makes any scientific sense, or that has been rigorously tested with falsifiable hypotheses.
Wow, I was thinking about induced currents from a rotating magnetic field. That explanation was much simpler (i.e. better)
I conveniently just finished rewatching Walter Lewin’s lecture around angular momentum. I’m sure you remember it. I imagine the same principles apply here? Ah, I just finished watching. Lol! I love counter intuitive puzzles. Thanks for sharing!
Yaay! I figured it out before they explained it! I feel smart.
Didn't make the connection with the sound though.
That's actually WRONG answer. You are making a Helicopter motion. Spin something on your finger. Doesn't matter what. It goes up.
Derek your audio sucks for your portion :-( edit, my left ear phone is sorta busted, so either you're very quiet or someone your audio is left leaning....LIKE YO LIFE?! IDK tried to add a joke
Stick-slip. The horrible phenomenon that also causes squeaky hinges, screeching forks on plates, high pitched squealing brakes, stuck drawers and stuck sliding windows.
I’ve been subscribed to Steve Mould for about 18months or so I guess and I love his channel as much as I love yours. Nice to see you supporting other youtubers. But you haven’t replied to my email and it’s been like 2years or so. No problem though. I’ll keep waiting, you must be really busy.
Well done! Finally, Electron-Magnetism and gravity unified ---via friction! ;)
looks like electromagnetic propulsion. As the magnets spin they impart a small charge into the metal rod, which in turn creates a small magnetic field. Since magnetic fields are perpendicular to the direction of electron flow, the generated electromagnetic field pushes the string of magnets upward.
At least that's the best theory I can come up with. It's definitely incomplete because it doesn't explain why the direction doesn't matter.
EDIT: I was completely wrong XD
Nice to see Earth Gravity is also involved hmm, I Like to see how it will work if we try in Zero Gravity or in Space. Derek I liked to see this mystery experiment in Zero Gravity. I hoping that Magnet doesn't move up.
Why does it need to stick and slip to do what you're describing? As long as the points of contact are off center because it's being pulled around the pole due to a trailing drag, and gravity is pulling the magnets down causing more pressure on the lower contact point, and the lower point of contact point is on a diagonal, it should climb continuously, even without sticking and slipping.
I don't have these kind of magnets but I have some buckyballs and tried it with them--it worked, but didn't seem to be as stable...
Some additional proof would have been nice, like spinningrectangular magnets. Or using a rod that is magnetic but not electrically conductive, to exclude induction.
So the thing slips, but instead of slipping downwards, it slips upwards? Also, I guessed early on that momentum had something to do with the magnets motion, like maybe the act of spinning the screwdriver pushed it up somehow.
another cool example of how audio can be used to help solve physics problems. We can hear faster than we can see and there are many problems worth examining with sound along side visuals
CENTRIFUGAL FORCE INCREASES DUE TO INCREASING RADIUS /VELOCITY TOWARDS EDGE OF TIP OF SCREWDRIVER.THE FORCE IS LARGER TOWARDS TOWARDS THE END OF THE TIP DUE TO F=V SQUARED OVER R.SO IT ACTS LIKE A GRAVITY WELL.
My thought process
1) the magnets are spinning
2) because with the front end going down causes it to go up
3) it is spinning because...
4) it is spinning because gravity applies more pressure to the bottom point
easy, when you hold the screwdriver up and rotate your reaction plane is like a V and the force (centripetal) is -> relatively on the right side so its obvious it will travel on that slope. if you hold the screwdriver upside down and make an A shape reaction force plane, and it will travel down if you consider \ plane and -> force due to centripetal acceleration and on the left side it would have stayed where it was.
I drew a small dot close to the tangent of the circle of the cylinder of magnets and did the same experiment a few times to see if the point shifted proving the cylinder rotates as described. It does.
Look mom, I did actual science!
I did this with a ruler and a pen
(I stuck the pen through a hole in the ruler)
Did you also try that upside down?
That was a fun one. I'm rather dim... but the explanation seems to match up with what I had in mind :) neat. May have to show this one to the kids.
would look ip eddy currents though ....i can imagine it has enough force to pull up the reasonable heavy magnets to the point ...his point is still great ...😉
So if the magnets had a square cross-section, they wouldn't climb, because the contact point of greatest pressure would stay at the same height? Seems testable.
So, if you spun on the screwdriver with it parallel to the ground, the magnets don't climb?
Really like Steve Mould's videos. Been following him for a while. Well worth a sub!
Omg wow... I totally thought that it was because of that flinging motion of the spinning. This is actually really amazing haha!
Judging by the start of the video i'd say its a similar principal to how those Vicks huminifiers with the spinning wheel and narrow cone work
I love Steve so much. He explains everything so nicely and elegantly that even a 5 year old would understand after a while.
So if you were to try doing this with those small magnets on a very large pole or pipe, say 2m in diameter, so the magnets are all but flush with the surface of the pole, this wouldn't happen?
Holy crap he speaks slowly. Thank the maker for 1.5x playback.
So I guess if the screwdriver is horizontal, we shouldn't see the phenomenon. Why not showing that in the video to complete the demonstration ?
Something doesn't make sense to me, because you can see the same effect with a small chain tied around a spinning screwdriver as such...
So this wouldn't work if we use cubic or ball shaped neodymium magnets?
Earth's rotation? Nope?
The magnet's rotation! Well, yes...
Darkmatter seems to be affected by G ... or Mass / Time / Space ....
(rest) Mass = Constant,
Space = constant ...
Darkmatter = Time ... or Darkmatter = (not-rest) Mass.
But than again, I would opt for the spinning and not the slipping as well :-)