Watched this thread a fair bit lately , goes hand in hand really. I've had top notch audio gear since i was old enough to afford it. The sound quality was always paramount for me . A lot of the 80s thrash albums i would avoid because of the poor production and sound quality , hence the reason i purchase remastered reissued older albums on vinyl today . To me it's like being an art aficionado with blurry glass' . Rock on Big Al and long live rock n roll 🤘🤘🤘
I already started to experiment with audio equipment 25 or more years ago. Being a huge 70s Prog fan might have to do something with it. I now have four full stereo systems across the house including record players. Two of them are in the 800 to 1000 Euro range and my two main systems are way above that. In our last chat I already talked about the cartrige I had to replace, hahaha.... remember? Does Sepultura´s "Bestial Invasion" EP sound like it´s recorded in a Royal Symphony hall on my 2500 Euro record player? Well, no, of course not! Do my old Pink Floyd, Eloy or Gentle Giant records sound way better on my "big" stereo? Of course they do! More "oomph" on the bottom end and the hights are way more detailed and clearer. The dynamics are just better balanced and lifely. My nerdom for high end audio might also be a reason for hating modern Metal productions. They are just lifeless and brickwalled. Simply made for sounding "good" and "full" on low end equipment. Does all that make me an audiophile? Well, it depends on the definition. I´d say no because I, as you well know, I love my old C or D grade German Metal and underground Thrash! The funny thing is, as you mentioned briefly, "elitist" Metalheads bashing so called audiophiles as "elitist", hahaha..... Hey, don´t underestimate free shipping for an expensive record player. It´s not cheap to send out a 17 ton package of equipment! Hahaha... Now it´s time to activate my "space station" in the living room and play some ELP.............
I can't afford to be an actual audiophile, but I do like quality. Quality is never a bad thing. It's about reproducing sound as accurately as possible, the style of music is irrelevant. Even when listening to something like raw black metal, I want to hear how raw it really is. I don't want the distortion to be distorted by crappy speakers.
Hey Thanks for the Shout Out Alan! Some great points about analogue Vs. Digital! I've always felt that I can hear a difference, but I love the sound of vinyl and Cds! really they both sound great to me, like you said the difference lies in your stereo, amp speakers turntable etc. This was a great topic! I may need to expand on it.
Simple answer? Metal/Rock collectors spend the majority of their coin on the music itself, not the gear. Yes, there are some that do both but they are “well to do” metal fans. Gear is ridiculously expensive, a stylus alone can cost you over 500 bucks or more. Would you rather the 500 dollar stylus? or an autographed first press of Welcome to Hell in near mint condition? Me? I’ll take the record. Let’s break this down….a needle is going through a groove with notches in those grooves to create a sound. In every way there is so many factors in that process to effect that sound. Dust, vibration, temperature, Humidity etc etc. no matter how “clean” you get that record it’s not perfectly clean. People forget audiophiles abandoned vinyl when cds broke because of those factors I mentioned. Now? Vinyl is rage so audiophiles are back on the wax. For most audiophiles its not about the music, it’s about the sound. Yes…a symphonic orchestra is the best form of music to truly hear the best sound not rock/metal. Reverb, distortion, lower production, or even musicians that aren’t highly skilled are not going to get you that superior sound. Also as I said in Pat’s video our ears aren’t that good especially in out older age so a lot of that audiophile sound? It’s in our heads. The “gear” collecting aspect? It can be a real chasing the dragon kind of thing. You’ll never achieve that “sound” you want. Because it only exists in our imaginations.
I don't know if you already have one, and besides the great content on videos, you have a great voice for a podcast. I would listen to each one of them.
Thanks! I just do these videos & the Heavy Metallurgy stream on Friday nights. Those combined with hours of teaching every week is enough talking for me! :)
I know quite a few audiophile metal heads. I happen to be one and started out with a system that was worth about $3k. I have upgraded quite a few times and there was a big difference every time. Each time my system became more revealing of poor mixing and mastering/ recording. There are many metal records that are recorded really well too. My system is now worth around $200k and I am really happy with how it plays metal. You can also get great headphones for far less than a 2 channel speaker system.
@@letstalkmetal I still like them, but I feel the high end is a bit more crisp or clear with the Polks. Maybe it’s just me. People that have heard them think they are very nice speakers. Klipsch is a very popular brand.
Hi Alan. There are some out there who prefer to listen to music in mono...stereo is a scam! If you enjoy blasting Death Metal tapes through a boombox then do it! People should trust their own ears. If I was an audiophile I think I would be using hi end streaming/digital. I mean why would I even bother messing with vinyl at this point, with all the components and various interference that can happen spinning bits of plastic. My best sounding records are from the 60/70s. Mostly soul,psych, prog and hard rock. These are the records that I notice the difference on vinyl. Brilliant production and great pressings. I have a couple of diff cartridges/stylus that I switch round depending on what I need. A lot of HM has shoddy production value, some of those recordings are captured using minimal mics and instruments, there isnt any more detail to be brought out. If you collect this sort of music on physical format exclusively then you dont need to go into the thousands for a decent set up. Snake oil and audiophile go hand in hand...a lot ha!
That's an interesting point; hi-end streaming could eliminate a lot of the variables associated with physical formats for those who really get into hi-fi sound. I hadn't thought about that!
There are a few metal albums that have been recorded using high quality equipment. But unfortunately, there are a lot of metal albums that sound like total crap. Not because of the band, but how the band was recorded, mixed, and mastered. Many a great metal band have had their sound ruined by a crappy studio and/or sound engineer. One of the worst recordings I can think of right off is The Devil Wears Prada 8:18. Lots of times the cymbals can't be heard, especially the hi-hats. On other tracks, it just sounds like they were recorded on a Radio Shack tape recorder. Avenged Sevenfold's Hail To The King, on the other hand, has a very nice soundstage and lots of detail in the instruments, rather cinematic sounding. So, yes, heavy metal music can be audiophile grade, but only if recorded on audiophile-grade equipment by someone who knows what they're doing.
As for the $50 barrier that many metalheads will not cross. I myself have a hard time getting to that level because back when I started collecting a new record was about $7.50, so thats my mental price point. With inflation that $7.50 in 1978 is a whopping $34.00 today. Thats a lot to wrap your head around. Couple that with feeling Father Time creeping up on me and I wonder if I really need to be collecting like a madman.
I think a lot of older collectors have those same hang-ups. We remember this stuff being much cheaper so it seems 'outrageous' that it's now gone up in price
First nice system, 1983. Harman Kardon cassette player, Yamaha integrated amplifier, Techniques turntable, Polk speakers. Since then, I guess it has only gotten better.
Most people are not going to notice any considerable improvement in sound from a mid priced hifi and one of those £100,000 Sputnik Armstrong Tantalum VKS 2-637XI turntables. The nature of heavy metal does not lend itself naturally to the full audiophile experience and to pursue that in its purest form would led to disappointment and an empty bank account. One of the areas people can improve their listening experience and get the most out of their system is by setting it up in the most acoustically audio advantageous manner. This is not so straight forward especially if you have poor acoustics in your listening space. For this reason alone I invest in a decent set of headphones and when I really want to hear a piece of music rather than casually listening to something in the background I use the headphones. The improvements in sound are so vast I cannot understand why anyone would listen (and I mean truly listen) to their music in any other way. Yes, I’m an audiophile! 😆
All my gear is from the late '70's. It's all what I would describe as the high upper end of entry level for that time period. Its the sort of stuff that I set my sights on and aspired to back when I got out of high school and started working full time jobs. It was good for metal and prog back then, and its good for metal, prog and classical now...and the occasional old country album.
@@letstalkmetal Right. To me, the late 70's were the epitome of stereo design, form and function. My turntable is 43 years old, the receiver is 44 and the speakers are 50. The cd player is only 30 years old. It's almost as much a visual experience as an aural one. The music I like is almost all from the period that my gear was made, so it becomes almost an audio/visual nostalgic experience.
Wow, obviously what you're saying is a generalisation but I'd like to think I'm not one of the few. By the sounds of it my centre speaker costs more than most 'metalheads' hifi systems. I go to hifi shows and bring my metal cd's or stream from my phone on lots of gear that's £50k+. Love it. Have a listen to Jinjer on some big Focal Utopias.
I would guess you are in a pretty small minority in that league, but it sounds really cool. And yes, I just described an 'average' situation but there's always a lot of variation around an average in this kind of conversation, everything from Croseleys to what you described.
Good video! I'm exactly like the type of metalhead you describe. I'd rather buy 10 records for 100 bucks than 1 record for 100 bucks so I have more music to listen to and enjoy. That said, I do appreciate having a system of some quality to play the records on, but it does't have to be super high end equipment. Personally, I'm not interested in replicating a live sound on my stereo (because that makes no sense to me with studio recordings), and I don't need to tease out all those teeny tiny details that a lot of audiophiles often value. I think metalheads can do what audiophiles do without necessarily having to calll themselves audiophiles if they don't want to identify as such.
I think a lot of metal fans would agree re: not feeling the need to reproduce a live/studio sound. And I totally get why a lot of folks would rather buy a lot of $10 records instead of one expensive record.
Interesting video as always Alan I think at the end of the day music is to be listened to for enjoyment and escape not to be broken down and nit picked and I'm perfectly happy listening to my cds on a £100 system I bought last year and I am loving the new heavy metallurgy intro!
I'll take the Thorne's turntable and the Klipsch with a touch of Toshiba! From a house sale!! Then play nothing but vertigo n verve presses! And now I need some more Greenland metal LPs!! 🤣
Think ive been an audiophile since staring work in my late teens currently running a project carbon record deck Arcam A32 amp and Arcam CD player and running it through monitor audio bronze 6 floor standing speakers
@@letstalkmetal Thanks I do have a twin amp deck setup as well I have a Technics SL 1200 deck and the big Technics A900S power amp with the big VU's that light up and the piggy back Technics SU-C800 pre amp.
Some of those expensive records might not be your cup of tea; just because it's expensive doesn't mean you will enjoy it. When I was collecting vinyl, $30.00 was the most I would pay. The Runaways Live in Japan was the album. But I already heard a few of the songs on a CD compilation so I knew I liked it. So, I guess one thought is, if you've heard the expensive records? Or are we talking about something we haven't heard?
Regarding sample rates of CDs vs records, I used to think that was bunk. But I started to wonder when I would change the quality of the audio on RUclips. Listening to a song at 144 sounds awful. It's got a strange tinny sound. Whereas at 720, it sounds quite good. Normal, I guess.
Now with video quality, I refer to the Shout! Factory release of Cat People on Blu-ray compared to the UHD. I've often wondered if 4K is better than 2K. The 4K UHD of Cat People shows much more information in the extra pixels than the Blu-ray that came out before it. There is a certain tiny scar on the lead's face that is barely identifiable on the Blu-ray compared to the UHD, which is very clear.
taking the word audiophile apart it contains "phile". philos in ancient greek means love/friendship. therefore audiophile means love towards audio. nothing else. the passion is not connected to money. the cliché says audiophiles are snobby and rich. for that reason many people declare themselves not being audiophiles because it's almost becoming something negative. if you love audio - you care. even if you just care how you position your speakers. even with a cheap gear, you can still love audio and care. but of course with a better equipment (not necessarly expensive) you can get a better reproduction of the original sound.
LOL I've actually never met any prof who was that into music of any type. Lots of geologist/paleo types do get into heavy metal, just not many of the professors. I'm weird that way :)
Some fine arguments. The vinyl vs CD conversation is an interesting one. I maintain that they sound different, not better or worse.
Watched this thread a fair bit lately , goes hand in hand really. I've had top notch audio gear since i was old enough to afford it. The sound quality was always paramount for me . A lot of the 80s thrash albums i would avoid because of the poor production and sound quality , hence the reason i purchase remastered reissued older albums on vinyl today . To me it's like being an art aficionado with blurry glass' . Rock on Big Al and long live rock n roll 🤘🤘🤘
Thanks for the reply Rod, hope you're doing well man. It's been interesting hearing everyone's take on this topic.
I already started to experiment with audio equipment 25 or more years ago. Being a huge 70s Prog fan might have to do something with it. I now have four full stereo systems across the house including record players. Two of them are in the 800 to 1000 Euro range and my two main systems are way above that. In our last chat I already talked about the cartrige I had to replace, hahaha.... remember?
Does Sepultura´s "Bestial Invasion" EP sound like it´s recorded in a Royal Symphony hall on my 2500 Euro record player? Well, no, of course not! Do my old Pink Floyd, Eloy or Gentle Giant records sound way better on my "big" stereo? Of course they do! More "oomph" on the bottom end and the hights are way more detailed and clearer. The dynamics are just better balanced and lifely.
My nerdom for high end audio might also be a reason for hating modern Metal productions. They are just lifeless and brickwalled. Simply made for sounding "good" and "full" on low end equipment. Does all that make me an audiophile? Well, it depends on the definition. I´d say no because I, as you well know, I love my old C or D grade German Metal and underground Thrash!
The funny thing is, as you mentioned briefly, "elitist" Metalheads bashing so called audiophiles as "elitist", hahaha.....
Hey, don´t underestimate free shipping for an expensive record player. It´s not cheap to send out a 17 ton package of equipment! Hahaha...
Now it´s time to activate my "space station" in the living room and play some ELP.............
I knew you had some high end equipment, but I didn't know you had that many stereos set up!
I can't afford to be an actual audiophile, but I do like quality. Quality is never a bad thing. It's about reproducing sound as accurately as possible, the style of music is irrelevant. Even when listening to something like raw black metal, I want to hear how raw it really is. I don't want the distortion to be distorted by crappy speakers.
Good point re: black metal. there's a difference between the lo-fi production style and having the sound messed up by bad audio equipment.
True. A high quality recording will accurately reproduce the distortion as intended by the artist.
Hey Thanks for the Shout Out Alan! Some great points about analogue Vs. Digital! I've always felt that I can hear a difference, but I love the sound of vinyl and Cds! really they both sound great to me, like you said the difference lies in your stereo, amp speakers turntable etc. This was a great topic! I may need to expand on it.
Thanks! I really enjoyed your video on this topic too!
Simple answer? Metal/Rock collectors spend the majority of their coin on the music itself, not the gear. Yes, there are some that do both but they are “well to do” metal fans. Gear is ridiculously expensive, a stylus alone can cost you over 500 bucks or more. Would you rather the 500 dollar stylus? or an autographed first press of Welcome to Hell in near mint condition? Me? I’ll take the record.
Let’s break this down….a needle is going through a groove with notches in those grooves to create a sound. In every way there is so many factors in that process to effect that sound. Dust, vibration, temperature, Humidity etc etc. no matter how “clean” you get that record it’s not perfectly clean. People forget audiophiles abandoned vinyl when cds broke because of those factors I mentioned. Now? Vinyl is rage so audiophiles are back on the wax. For most audiophiles its not about the music, it’s about the sound. Yes…a symphonic orchestra is the best form of music to truly hear the best sound not rock/metal. Reverb, distortion, lower production, or even musicians that aren’t highly skilled are not going to get you that superior sound.
Also as I said in Pat’s video our ears aren’t that good especially in out older age so a lot of that audiophile sound? It’s in our heads. The “gear” collecting aspect? It can be a real chasing the dragon kind of thing. You’ll never achieve that “sound” you want. Because it only exists in our imaginations.
There is no upper price limit on gear and you're right, metalheads amass large quantities of music.
I don't know if you already have one, and besides the great content on videos, you have a great voice for a podcast. I would listen to each one of them.
Thanks! I just do these videos & the Heavy Metallurgy stream on Friday nights. Those combined with hours of teaching every week is enough talking for me! :)
I know quite a few audiophile metal heads. I happen to be one and started out with a system that was worth about $3k. I have upgraded quite a few times and there was a big difference every time. Each time my system became more revealing of poor mixing and mastering/ recording. There are many metal records that are recorded really well too.
My system is now worth around $200k and I am really happy with how it plays metal. You can also get great headphones for far less than a 2 channel speaker system.
Wow, I think that's the most expensive system I've ever heard of someone actually having (not just advertising). Very cool!
I have used Polk speakers since 1983. Just recently switched over to Klipsch. I should have stuck with Polk.
Out of curiosity, what don't you like about the Klipsch speakers? I'm not familiar with that brand
@@letstalkmetal I still like them, but I feel the high end is a bit more crisp or clear with the Polks. Maybe it’s just me. People that have heard them think they are very nice speakers. Klipsch is a very popular brand.
@@charlesmorrell2338 Thanks for the info. I haven't shopped for equipment in about a decade so I'm not up on the popular brands
I've got a pair of Polk Monitor SII 60 tower speakers that I love. Very clean and accurate response.
Hi Alan. There are some out there who prefer to listen to music in mono...stereo is a scam! If you enjoy blasting Death Metal tapes through a boombox then do it! People should trust their own ears.
If I was an audiophile I think I would be using hi end streaming/digital. I mean why would I even bother messing with vinyl at this point, with all the components and various interference that can happen spinning bits of plastic. My best sounding records are from the 60/70s. Mostly soul,psych, prog and hard rock. These are the records that I notice the difference on vinyl. Brilliant production and great pressings. I have a couple of diff cartridges/stylus that I switch round depending on what I need. A lot of HM has shoddy production value, some of those recordings are captured using minimal mics and instruments, there isnt any more detail to be brought out. If you collect this sort of music on physical format exclusively then you dont need to go into the thousands for a decent set up. Snake oil and audiophile go hand in hand...a lot ha!
That's an interesting point; hi-end streaming could eliminate a lot of the variables associated with physical formats for those who really get into hi-fi sound. I hadn't thought about that!
There are a few metal albums that have been recorded using high quality equipment. But unfortunately, there are a lot of metal albums that sound like total crap. Not because of the band, but how the band was recorded, mixed, and mastered. Many a great metal band have had their sound ruined by a crappy studio and/or sound engineer. One of the worst recordings I can think of right off is The Devil Wears Prada 8:18. Lots of times the cymbals can't be heard, especially the hi-hats. On other tracks, it just sounds like they were recorded on a Radio Shack tape recorder. Avenged Sevenfold's Hail To The King, on the other hand, has a very nice soundstage and lots of detail in the instruments, rather cinematic sounding. So, yes, heavy metal music can be audiophile grade, but only if recorded on audiophile-grade equipment by someone who knows what they're doing.
Yeah, bad production can't be fixed with a good turntable
As for the $50 barrier that many metalheads will not cross. I myself have a hard time getting to that level because back when I started collecting a new record was about $7.50, so thats my mental price point. With inflation that $7.50 in 1978 is a whopping $34.00 today. Thats a lot to wrap your head around. Couple that with feeling Father Time creeping up on me and I wonder if I really need to be collecting like a madman.
I think a lot of older collectors have those same hang-ups. We remember this stuff being much cheaper so it seems 'outrageous' that it's now gone up in price
@@letstalkmetal We tend to forget that minimum wage was $2.65 at that time.
@@Frank_nwobhm Yes we do :)
First nice system, 1983. Harman Kardon cassette player, Yamaha integrated amplifier, Techniques turntable, Polk speakers. Since then, I guess it has only gotten better.
That was a good system!
Most people are not going to notice any considerable improvement in sound from a mid priced hifi and one of those £100,000 Sputnik Armstrong Tantalum VKS 2-637XI turntables.
The nature of heavy metal does not lend itself naturally to the full audiophile experience and to pursue that in its purest form would led to disappointment and an empty bank account.
One of the areas people can improve their listening experience and get the most out of their system is by setting it up in the most acoustically audio advantageous manner. This is not so straight forward especially if you have poor acoustics in your listening space. For this reason alone I invest in a decent set of headphones and when I really want to hear a piece of music rather than casually listening to something in the background I use the headphones. The improvements in sound are so vast I cannot understand why anyone would listen (and I mean truly listen) to their music in any other way.
Yes, I’m an audiophile! 😆
Good point. Headphones use to be a major part of stereo equipment, but now they're treated as almost disposable objects by many folks (and companies)
All my gear is from the late '70's. It's all what I would describe as the high upper end of entry level for that time period. Its the sort of stuff that I set my sights on and aspired to back when I got out of high school and started working full time jobs. It was good for metal and prog back then, and its good for metal, prog and classical now...and the occasional old country album.
Decent gear from that period can last for ages if taken care of. My dad's mid-70s turntable lasted about 40 years with heavy usage.
@@letstalkmetal Right. To me, the late 70's were the epitome of stereo design, form and function. My turntable is 43 years old, the receiver is 44 and the speakers are 50. The cd player is only 30 years old. It's almost as much a visual experience as an aural one. The music I like is almost all from the period that my gear was made, so it becomes almost an audio/visual nostalgic experience.
Moved 20 times - in 22 years ? That’s amazing !
Yeah it was not fun :(
Wow, obviously what you're saying is a generalisation but I'd like to think I'm not one of the few. By the sounds of it my centre speaker costs more than most 'metalheads' hifi systems. I go to hifi shows and bring my metal cd's or stream from my phone on lots of gear that's £50k+. Love it. Have a listen to Jinjer on some big Focal Utopias.
I would guess you are in a pretty small minority in that league, but it sounds really cool. And yes, I just described an 'average' situation but there's always a lot of variation around an average in this kind of conversation, everything from Croseleys to what you described.
Good video! I'm exactly like the type of metalhead you describe. I'd rather buy 10 records for 100 bucks than 1 record for 100 bucks so I have more music to listen to and enjoy. That said, I do appreciate having a system of some quality to play the records on, but it does't have to be super high end equipment. Personally, I'm not interested in replicating a live sound on my stereo (because that makes no sense to me with studio recordings), and I don't need to tease out all those teeny tiny details that a lot of audiophiles often value. I think metalheads can do what audiophiles do without necessarily having to calll themselves audiophiles if they don't want to identify as such.
I think a lot of metal fans would agree re: not feeling the need to reproduce a live/studio sound. And I totally get why a lot of folks would rather buy a lot of $10 records instead of one expensive record.
Interesting video as always Alan I think at the end of the day music is to be listened to for enjoyment and escape not to be broken down and nit picked and I'm perfectly happy listening to my cds on a £100 system I bought last year and I am loving the new heavy metallurgy intro!
Thanks Robert! Marty made the intro, I get no credit for that at all.
I'll take the Thorne's turntable and the Klipsch with a touch of Toshiba! From a house sale!! Then play nothing but vertigo n verve presses! And now I need some more Greenland metal LPs!! 🤣
Think ive been an audiophile since staring work in my late teens currently running a project carbon record deck Arcam A32 amp and Arcam CD player and running it through monitor audio bronze 6 floor standing speakers
Good to hear from you Alun! Sounds like a nice system.
@@letstalkmetal Thanks I do have a twin amp deck setup as well I have a Technics SL 1200 deck and the big Technics A900S power amp with the big VU's that light up and the piggy back Technics SU-C800 pre amp.
Some of those expensive records might not be your cup of tea; just because it's expensive doesn't mean you will enjoy it. When I was collecting vinyl, $30.00 was the most I would pay. The Runaways Live in Japan was the album. But I already heard a few of the songs on a CD compilation so I knew I liked it. So, I guess one thought is, if you've heard the expensive records? Or are we talking about something we haven't heard?
Regarding sample rates of CDs vs records, I used to think that was bunk. But I started to wonder when I would change the quality of the audio on RUclips. Listening to a song at 144 sounds awful. It's got a strange tinny sound. Whereas at 720, it sounds quite good. Normal, I guess.
Now with video quality, I refer to the Shout! Factory release of Cat People on Blu-ray compared to the UHD. I've often wondered if 4K is better than 2K. The 4K UHD of Cat People shows much more information in the extra pixels than the Blu-ray that came out before it. There is a certain tiny scar on the lead's face that is barely identifiable on the Blu-ray compared to the UHD, which is very clear.
I don't know much of anything about video formats so i can't say.
@@letstalkmetalI know very little about any format. Just that if more time is taken with whatever it is, it usually comes out better than not.
taking the word audiophile apart it contains "phile". philos in ancient greek means love/friendship. therefore audiophile means love towards audio. nothing else.
the passion is not connected to money. the cliché says audiophiles are snobby and rich. for that reason many people declare themselves not being audiophiles because it's almost becoming something negative.
if you love audio - you care. even if you just care how you position your speakers.
even with a cheap gear, you can still love audio and care.
but of course with a better equipment (not necessarly expensive) you can get a better reproduction of the original sound.
I agree, the term has unfortunately acquired a negative connotation for many people
Is that a real Christmas tree ? That had to cost you a couple bucks 😛🎄
Nah it's a fake one, we've re-used it for years. Still looks decent though
But Alan you left out a profession in your audiophile question..."Are you a doctor, a lawyer or a PROFESSOR"
LOL I've actually never met any prof who was that into music of any type. Lots of geologist/paleo types do get into heavy metal, just not many of the professors. I'm weird that way :)
Only dollars...not real cheddar :-))
You remind me a lot of Kermit, the Frog