If there is a such a thing as the “Big Four” of Doom Metal I think it would be these bands. The Obsessed, Trouble, Candlemass and Saint Vitus. I think that as a genre, it’s incredibly interesting because there are moments where the music becomes more influenced by psychedelic rock and things like that. And then sometimes the music gets a little bit of the Hardcore Punk influence the Doom becomes much more Sludge metal. All of these slower Metal genres, or genres that rely on more volume and more of a feel sort of blur lines with one another.
Pentagram, Candlemass, Saint Vitus, Trouble. Interesting take on the genre Alan. But I think it's hard not to give the torch the four listed. Even the drifted here and there I must say they are the four solid names I automatically think of when DOOM is mentioned. But my fav DOOM bands are Lord Vigo and Altar Of Oblivion.
Cool video and good points. Black Sabbath, Reverend Bizarre, Saint Vitus, Atlantean Codex, While Heaven Wept, and Count Raven are my doom favorites, and that Minotauri II album is an outlier gem of an album. Doomsword was riding the genre equator but put out some classics.
As to your final thoughts on Witchfinder General. There were indeed a lot of us at the time paying attention to and revering WG in the early 80's. My friends and I all owned both of their albums, which weren't easy to find here in the U.S. Their sound was very much a homage to early Sabbath. Phil Cope played a '63 Gibson SG through a Laney L100 amp just like Tony Iommi's '64 Gibson SG played through a Laney L100 amp on the Sabbath debut album. I've heard people say that Zeeb Parkes was an Ozzy sound-alike, although I don't hear it myself. We were comparing them to Sabbath from the first time we heard them, just like we did with Trouble a year or two later.
That's cool that y'all were into WFG right away. I've always been surprised at how harsh Malc was in his NWOBHM Encyclopedia with the WFG entry. I think Zeeb is in the Ozzy 'camp' of singers but I don't think he sounds like Ozzy.
Cheers to Bosnia! It's cool you love Forest of Equilibrium that much. It's definitely my favorite Cathedral album. I used to have a copy but I must have traded it away at some point, which was a dumb decision by me.
I like how you approached this, I’d much rather hear about 12 bands that are in the running than THE four “best” or whatever. That’s way more useful, I think; no matter if your talking to a newcomer to the genre or a veteran. Well done. Yes, Changes is a real turd in the punch bowl. Later
Interesting points Alan, although sometimes I think quality matters more than quantity. For example with Pentagram I feel like they need to be there despite the short discography because of how good and influential their early output is
That's a good point, some bands can be hugely influential with only 1-2 releases. I was probably biased because I was thinking along the lines of The Big Four of thrash, and all those bands released a lot of stuff and were very popular. But that may not be a good way to approach a Big Four of Doom since many of the bands don't have long discographies and none really ever had the widespread popularity of the big thrash bands.
It's an interesting conversation to have. For me, personally I honestly would go with Trouble, Pentagram, Candlemass and Saint Vitus. Mainly because I feel that they are simply the best bands in the genre. These are the bands that got me into Doom. Their catalogs are inconsistent but solid. I don't know if there is a "Big 4" of Doom Metal but those would be my picks. Your arguments make a lot of sense though, especially since Doom was very unknown and forgotten in the 80's. Black Sabbath, Witchfinder General, Pagan Altar, Ritual and Desolation Angels all deserve credit for helping pioneer the genre in the NWOBHM period. Even some early 70's proto-metal groups could be mentioned, even if their discographies were sparse. Ultimately, I don't think that there is a "Big 4". If there was, those 4 bands immediately come to mind.
I think I might settle on the same 4 you did. Good shout-outs to RITUAL and DESOLATION ANGELS. Love the early stuff from both those bands. I like RITUAL's 90s output too, though DA sort of lost their uniqueness when they relocated to the US.
@Let's Talk Metal Probably pretty much what everyone else chiming in on the big 4 of doom. But, with obvious and just cause: Trouble, Candlemass, Saint Vitus, (and yes, ill say it even tho some disagree:, pentagram or fkn Pagan Altar And thanks once again @let'stalkmetal for getting my ears opened to new stuff, in this case, ive knowned the name for long time but never listened: REVEREND BIZARRE!!! Never gave a chance b/c they came across to me a little silly. And now i regret it. Should had knew better and ill try not to do that again. checked out "II: Crush the insects" you talked highly of side A, so i checked it out. Right away, "DOOM OVER THE WORLD" wow, i was stunned! Not particuarly inventing anything, but dam, it kicks a$$. And Alan, ive heard you talk about Trouble - "Run..." album a couple of times and i know you dont really care for it. But man, i really highly recommend, no, i IMPLORE YOU (not just saying it because of my bias for Trouble, aside from Sabbath, my all time fav band) but you really need to spend a little time with it. And i promise you, you'll love it. With "The Misery Shows (Pt. 1), " On Borrored Time, the titletrack and the epic album closer, "The Beginning". The whole dam album is a a$$ kicker. For me, probably my only peev of the album is that it wasnt quite long enough. It feels kinda short. But anyway, it is a bonafide Metal classic. And as for Pentagram, what i reach for, probably my fav is "Day of Reckoning". " Wartime STILL kicks mya$$. Cheers brother!
Cheers nundo! Glad you liked Crush the Insects. Rev can come across a bit silly at times, but they do have their moments. I do need to revisit that Trouble album, maybe it'll click with me next time. FOlks definitely overlook Day of Reckoning, I think it gets overshadowed by their debut, but it can stand on it's own.
Oh Run to the Light is a very good album. Short; but really good. Thinking of the Past has a spectacular solo. I've listened to the debut from Trouble more than any album ever. Greatest band ever to me. Their first four albums ate the best four album run in metal history.
Great Video Alan! I agree 100% Doom Metal has a lot of spin offs and its almost impossible to pick 4 bands because of the different regional scenes and so forth. If I had to pick one band that defines what doom metal is for me I would easily pick Saint Vitus. If I had to pick a second one it would be Iron Man.
Hi Alan! Interesting take on this mate. For me, if there is to be a big four its Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Trouble and Candlemass. Outside of Sabbath and Witchfinder General (thanked as an influence in the inner sleeve of St Vitus 84 debut) these are the bands that pushed the Doom out there. Lee Dorrians Dark passages comp (91) was the album that put the Idea into me and my friends heads that there was a scene to get behind even if it was Just a handful of bands scattered about. It introduced us to bands like Count Raven, Penance, Revelation, Vitus and Solitude Aeturnus. Cathedral were a major spark, talking up these bands in the uk press. Peaceville reissued those first two Pentagram albums because there was a bubblin' interest in Doom in the UK. Hellhound records have to be mentioned also for those early 90s albums. It was small but bands influenced by this stuff were starting up. The Rev Biz debut was very important, it brought Doom back away from the Stoner Rock scene that many bands were heading towards. Anyway Ill stop ramblin on...I love this music haha! Nice one mate.
All good points! Hellhound wasn't liked very much in the US at the time but many of those albums are now considered influential. And I didn't know SV thanked Witchfinder in their liner notes, that's really cool!
Alan, another great video/subject. Would you agree that the Maryland/ Virginia/ DC underground doom scene is ground zero for American Doom Metal and one of the earliest overall outside the UK? I tend to break such rankings down by looking at it in that way, scene by scene, who was first, quality & quantity of output & influence. Doom is a tough one. Maybe we should look at it as the individual artists who developed doom & continue to deal in the trade. Just a thought.
Yeah, it is a tough one to figure out. I'd agree about the Maryland scene. Pentagram were active so early in that area, and there were many other bands from that region later on too. No other scene in the US had that much Doom come out of it TMK.
For me, i come up with 3 who I think are shoe ins and this is just how I look at it. Black Sabbath for starting it in the 70’s. Trouble for picking it up in the 80’s and Cathedral for doing it in the 90’s. Now #4? Hmmm I could almost make a case for My dying Bride (she’s ok now don’t worry lol bad joke). But, they really kinda took it in a new direction with the death metal elements, violins female vocals and old gothic atmosphere. You could make a similar case for Paradise Lost. Like you said though they kind of wandered off from doom as their careers went on. This is/was a good topic!
Good point; Kellen brought that up during the livestream- with so many offshoots of Doom it gets hard to compare the bands to one another. That's not really an issue with Thrash.
For me: *Candlemass *Trouble *Pagan Altar *Saint Vitus HMs - Black Hole, Witchfinder General I'm an "epic doom" fanatic, so of course Solitude Aeturnus, Solstice, Scald and Doomsword are very important to me. Among the newer ones in this niche, I highly recommend the first two albums by Crypt Sermon, Monasterium (Church of Bones, Cold Are The Graves), Evangelist (Deus Vult!, Ad Mortem Festinamus), Atlantean Kodex (borderline doom, but it's worth it), The Temple (Of Solitude Triumphant, great album), Cromlech (vocals can be weird, but for me, they are great)... list goes on and on. I will also add Iron Griffin, slightly different playing, a bit of Black Sabbath + Manilla Road + Medieval Folk + 70's prog. And female vocals (very good). Original band. Hail from Poland!
Great list! 'Kodex is my favorite band of the 21st century! I'll have to check out Monasterium, I don't think I've heard them. I have heard some Iron Griffin; pretty unique sound, like you said. The Temple is quite good too. When done well Epic Doom is fantastic stuff.
Love Saint Vitus but I see your point about your reasons. A friend gave me 2 Revrend Bizarre and they are a stranger band some good songs and some ridiculous tedious songs too. Great stuff video Alan!
Thanks George! I love Vitus too and I think they would make the cut, but other bands might edge them out. And I agree about Rev, some of their songs are good but 'tedious' is a good way to describe other tracks from them.
Thanks Jeff, glad you enjoy the show :) I've never thought of those Ozzy albums as doom though now that you mention it at least some songs do have the right atmosphere (for example, Mister Crowley).
I think Ozzy's first two solo albums owe more to the energy and spirit of NOWBHM than anything to do with doom, not unlike the first two Sabbath albums with Dio.
Hello Alan. I have just watched Heavy Metallurgy "best of 1990-99 decade". I have not known FATES WARNING before. Thanx to You, I listen to it now. Well, this is VERY good ! Very good. But I dont hear here nothing more that QUEENSRYCHE have not done before... Of course I respect Your opinion, everyone has his own, but REALLY FATES WARNING "Parallels" as an album of the decade ?
Glad you checked it out. I have a very strong emotional connection w/ 'Parallels' going back 32 years, so it's always high on my list of best 90s albums. But like I said during the stream, my top album of the 90s does change from time to time. You're right about the Queensryche comparison; QR was always the band that FW got compared to. They both did a lot of incredible albums over time.
Yep, I agree they fit. I had their first album but it never really sunk into my brain. I have an irrational distaste for a lot of things that Mike Wead played on, which makes no sense as he's a good guitarist. I just seem to 'down vote' many albums that feature him.
@@letstalkmetal Yes ! In my opinion bands like BLOOD INCANTATION, SPECTRAL VOICE and many others are using dISEMBOWELMENT as insoiration. Great band that influenced so many bands 30 yaers later.
1. Black Sabbath 2. Trouble/Eric Wagner 3. Witchfinder General 4. Saint Vitus I mean, Black Sabbath invented the term DOOM after all with their song "Hand Of Doom". Trouble and Witchfinder General and Saint Vitus, for me, were the first bands to pick up the torch of doom which Sabbath had dropped years before. That makes them top four for me. Honorable mentions would be Candlemass, Reverend Bizarre, Count Raven and...Sleep!!
@letstalkmetal LOL..I just tossed Sleep in there for the fun of it. I do think Dopesmoker/Jerusalem is brilliant though. I'm sure that if I gave it some thought, I would think of somebody besides Sleep, like Pagan Altar perhaps. Truth be told, I like doom a lot, but don't have a broad range in the genre.
@@Frank_nwobhm I think a lot of folks are the same way. Since Doom doesn't get the same level of exposure as other genres it can be hard to find out about a wide range of doom bands. I'm always amazed at how many Rick can dig up that no one lese seems to know.
@@letstalkmetal I tend to become satisfied with the discovery of just a few bands in any particular genre/sub-genre. I seldom feel the need to keep exploring further and further.
Fair question. I don't know if they fall inside or outside the boundaries of Doom. They're definitely doomy much of the time, but are they more rock than metal? Are they more goth than doom? I don't know their catalog well enough to say with any certainty.
@@letstalkmetal from my perspective, type o negative are a salad where the dressing is always doom, but ingredients/leaves may be thrash-y, pink floyd-y or goth-y, depending on the tempo, lol. The use of keyboards, as always, means a band can sound quite different from album to album. My favourite song of theirs is “In Praise of Bacchus” 😁
Sheesh, this was hard. I totally agree that almost every doom band have serious blemishes, especially the "classic", well known doom bands. I dare everyone in this comment section to listen to the "Candlemass Sjunger Sigge Fürst" EP, for example - although it can be viewed as a novelty (and not entirely serious) release. I can't stand Cathedral, I think it's Lee's vocals. Absolutely love Witchfinder General and Pagan Altar. But are they "top 4"? Definitely not. Another solid doom band was Hour Of 13, not a bad album there. But not top 4, nope. The Gates Of Slumber released what's possibly the best doom song of the entire 2000's (To Kill And Be King), but top 4? Nah. I suppose it'll have to be Candlemass (by far) followed by Pentagram, Vitus and Trouble. Just because of them being forerunners and most influential. But they're certainly not without their flaws.
Some good considerations there Kristian! TGoS were really good right around that 'Conqueror' album. HOUR OF 13 never quite won me over, but I should revisit them sometime.
If we're talking strictly doom without bringing in stoner, gothic, death, drone, or sludge into the mix, I think it narrows it down to a pretty manageable list. One would have to bring Black Sabbath into question. Black Sabbath is to me, and many others, the start of metal in general. I like BangerTV's approached to the genre debates in the aspect. To me, Black Sabbath are the legend for doom. We have a definitive beginning point. That being said, Black Sabbath don't identify as doom metal, nor was anyone calling them doom metal until more bands in a similar vein popped up (at least to the best of my knowledge). When looking for the big four, it might be prudent to consider longevity. There are bands like Iron Man and Witchfinder General which have a great album or two, but then basically disappeared. For this same reason, we can discount newer bands because they don't have the legacy. Bands like Pallbearer blew during their first two albums but everything since has been met with mesh from most people outside of their hardcore fan base. Pentagram, Saint Vitus, and Candlemass all seem to fit easily in place from a popularity and influence standpoint. That fourth spot is sort of the Anthrax spot. Trouble is probably what I would think, but The Obsessed could fit there. Count Raven has also been going for a while, but aren't quite as influential. I think I'd have to go with Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Candlemass, and Trouble. As an aside, my personal favorites if we're bringing in other subgenres of doom are Sleep, Ufomammut, Electric Wizard, and Cathedral.
While doom isn't a genre I listen to much I do have albums by my dying bride and paradise lost one of the recurring themes with a lot of the bands you showed was the short and sporadic back catalogues when the big four tag was coined for the thrash bands they'd already put out 4 or 5 albums in a relative short time period
For me there is no big four, just the big one: sabbath. It is what it is. They have songs so archetypal in the style that they are the elephant in the room. It’s the less fun answer and it breaks a lot of what we think in terms of how extreme styles came to be in the 80s but you can’t fault them for being so ahead of the game. If they had only a handful of songs they would get the “proto” label but they have at least one entire doom album (master) and enough material to make another full pure doom album and probably more
Witchfinder General only had a very short discography and made a lot of mistakes during their "career", but in my opinion they had a huge influence on younger bands like Electric Wizard. Maybe this is me being a fanboy, but Witchfinder General have never gotten the respect they deserve.
Master for sure, other albums have some good doomy stuff spread across them. Never thought of that first SV as a doomy BOC before. Vitus definitely had some influences that don't show up in a lot of other doom bands
Candlemass, Trouble, The Obsessed, St Vitus and Pentagram. We have five in our list 😅
LOL that's cheating! :)
@ only if you get caught 😉
If there is a such a thing as the “Big Four” of Doom Metal I think it would be these bands. The Obsessed, Trouble, Candlemass and Saint Vitus. I think that as a genre, it’s incredibly interesting because there are moments where the music becomes more influenced by psychedelic rock and things like that. And then sometimes the music gets a little bit of the Hardcore Punk influence the Doom becomes much more Sludge metal. All of these slower Metal genres, or genres that rely on more volume and more of a feel sort of blur lines with one another.
Agreed, the lines get blurry and that makes it tough to define a 'big four'. You've got a solid list for the topic.
Pentagram, Candlemass, Saint Vitus, Trouble. Interesting take on the genre Alan. But I think it's hard not to give the torch the four listed. Even the drifted here and there I must say they are the four solid names I automatically think of when DOOM is mentioned. But my fav DOOM bands are Lord Vigo and Altar Of Oblivion.
I don't know Lord Vigo, I'll have to check them out.
Yours is a solid list for sure Duane!
@@letstalkmetal Alan start here for Lord Vigo. Enjoy! Lord Vigo - When The Bloodlust Draws On Me Official Video
@@Lazerrus Thanks, I'll go check it out!
Wheel is a band to check out
@@BIGRGreenEyes I remember folks talking about them but I never got around to checking them out.
Cool video and good points. Black Sabbath, Reverend Bizarre, Saint Vitus, Atlantean Codex, While Heaven Wept, and Count Raven are my doom favorites, and that Minotauri II album is an outlier gem of an album. Doomsword was riding the genre equator but put out some classics.
Those are great picks, Atlantean Kodex is my favorite band from the past couple of decades, andd Minotauri II is indeed a gem!
Pentagram, Candlemass, St Vitus and Trouble.
At the end of the day, this might be my list too :)
As to your final thoughts on Witchfinder General. There were indeed a lot of us at the time paying attention to and revering WG in the early 80's. My friends and I all owned both of their albums, which weren't easy to find here in the U.S.
Their sound was very much a homage to early Sabbath. Phil Cope played a '63 Gibson SG through a Laney L100 amp just like Tony Iommi's '64 Gibson SG played through a Laney L100 amp on the Sabbath debut album. I've heard people say that Zeeb Parkes was an Ozzy sound-alike, although I don't hear it myself. We were comparing them to Sabbath from the first time we heard them, just like we did with Trouble a year or two later.
That's cool that y'all were into WFG right away. I've always been surprised at how harsh Malc was in his NWOBHM Encyclopedia with the WFG entry.
I think Zeeb is in the Ozzy 'camp' of singers but I don't think he sounds like Ozzy.
@@letstalkmetal
I think the article in Kerrang tipped off my buddy Mike. He bought Death Penalty and the rest of us followed suit.
@@Frank_nwobhm I hope Kerrang was a bit kinder than Malc was :)
Forest of equilibrium from Cathedral is true doom metal lesson.Best doom album ever,in my opinion.Greetings from Bosnia,Samir.
Cheers to Bosnia! It's cool you love Forest of Equilibrium that much. It's definitely my favorite Cathedral album. I used to have a copy but I must have traded it away at some point, which was a dumb decision by me.
I like how you approached this, I’d much rather hear about 12 bands that are in the running than THE four “best” or whatever. That’s way more useful, I think; no matter if your talking to a newcomer to the genre or a veteran. Well done. Yes, Changes is a real turd in the punch bowl. Later
LOL I'm glad I didn't drink that punch.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Interesting points Alan, although sometimes I think quality matters more than quantity. For example with Pentagram I feel like they need to be there despite the short discography because of how good and influential their early output is
That's a good point, some bands can be hugely influential with only 1-2 releases. I was probably biased because I was thinking along the lines of The Big Four of thrash, and all those bands released a lot of stuff and were very popular. But that may not be a good way to approach a Big Four of Doom since many of the bands don't have long discographies and none really ever had the widespread popularity of the big thrash bands.
It's an interesting conversation to have. For me, personally I honestly would go with Trouble, Pentagram, Candlemass and Saint Vitus. Mainly because I feel that they are simply the best bands in the genre. These are the bands that got me into Doom. Their catalogs are inconsistent but solid. I don't know if there is a "Big 4" of Doom Metal but those would be my picks. Your arguments make a lot of sense though, especially since Doom was very unknown and forgotten in the 80's. Black Sabbath, Witchfinder General, Pagan Altar, Ritual and Desolation Angels all deserve credit for helping pioneer the genre in the NWOBHM period. Even some early 70's proto-metal groups could be mentioned, even if their discographies were sparse. Ultimately, I don't think that there is a "Big 4". If there was, those 4 bands immediately come to mind.
I think I might settle on the same 4 you did.
Good shout-outs to RITUAL and DESOLATION ANGELS. Love the early stuff from both those bands. I like RITUAL's 90s output too, though DA sort of lost their uniqueness when they relocated to the US.
@Let's Talk Metal Probably pretty much what everyone else chiming in on the big 4 of doom. But, with obvious and just cause:
Trouble, Candlemass, Saint Vitus, (and yes, ill say it even tho some disagree:, pentagram or fkn Pagan Altar And thanks once again @let'stalkmetal for getting my ears opened to new stuff, in this case, ive knowned the name for long time but never listened: REVEREND BIZARRE!!! Never gave a chance b/c they came across to me a little silly. And now i regret it. Should had knew better and ill try not to do that again. checked out "II: Crush the insects" you talked highly of side A, so i checked it out. Right away, "DOOM OVER THE WORLD" wow, i was stunned! Not particuarly inventing anything, but dam, it kicks a$$. And Alan, ive heard you talk about Trouble - "Run..." album a couple of times and i know you dont really care for it. But man, i really highly recommend, no, i IMPLORE YOU (not just saying it because of my bias for Trouble, aside from Sabbath, my all time fav band) but you really need to spend a little time with it. And i promise you, you'll love it. With "The Misery Shows (Pt. 1), " On Borrored Time, the titletrack and the epic album closer, "The Beginning". The whole dam album is a a$$ kicker. For me, probably my only peev of the album is that it wasnt quite long enough. It feels kinda short. But anyway, it is a bonafide Metal classic. And as for Pentagram, what i reach for, probably my fav is "Day of Reckoning". " Wartime STILL kicks mya$$. Cheers brother!
Cheers nundo! Glad you liked Crush the Insects. Rev can come across a bit silly at times, but they do have their moments.
I do need to revisit that Trouble album, maybe it'll click with me next time.
FOlks definitely overlook Day of Reckoning, I think it gets overshadowed by their debut, but it can stand on it's own.
Oh Run to the Light is a very good album. Short; but really good. Thinking of the Past has a spectacular solo. I've listened to the debut from Trouble more than any album ever. Greatest band ever to me. Their first four albums ate the best four album run in metal history.
Great Video Alan! I agree 100% Doom Metal has a lot of spin offs and its almost impossible to pick 4 bands because of the different regional scenes and so forth. If I had to pick one band that defines what doom metal is for me I would easily pick Saint Vitus. If I had to pick a second one it would be Iron Man.
Vitus is pretty essential. Iron Man is a great underground pick. I have 1-2 IM albums, haven't played those in awhile.
Hi Alan! Interesting take on this mate. For me, if there is to be a big four its Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Trouble and Candlemass. Outside of Sabbath and Witchfinder General (thanked as an influence in the inner sleeve of St Vitus 84 debut) these are the bands that pushed the Doom out there. Lee Dorrians Dark passages comp (91) was the album that put the Idea into me and my friends heads that there was a scene to get behind even if it was Just a handful of bands scattered about. It introduced us to bands like Count Raven, Penance, Revelation, Vitus and Solitude Aeturnus. Cathedral were a major spark, talking up these bands in the uk press.
Peaceville reissued those first two Pentagram albums because there was a bubblin' interest in Doom in the UK. Hellhound records have to be mentioned also for those early 90s albums. It was small but bands influenced by this stuff were starting up. The Rev Biz debut was very important, it brought Doom back away from the Stoner Rock scene that many bands were heading towards. Anyway Ill stop ramblin on...I love this music haha! Nice one mate.
All good points! Hellhound wasn't liked very much in the US at the time but many of those albums are now considered influential. And I didn't know SV thanked Witchfinder in their liner notes, that's really cool!
Alan, another great video/subject. Would you agree that the Maryland/ Virginia/ DC underground doom scene is ground zero for American Doom Metal and one of the earliest overall outside the UK? I tend to break such rankings down by looking at it in that way, scene by scene, who was first, quality & quantity of output & influence. Doom is a tough one. Maybe we should look at it as the individual artists who developed doom & continue to deal in the trade. Just a thought.
Yeah, it is a tough one to figure out. I'd agree about the Maryland scene. Pentagram were active so early in that area, and there were many other bands from that region later on too. No other scene in the US had that much Doom come out of it TMK.
Hey Alan, how about a show on the MD/VA/DC Doom Scene & Bands?
That would be a great topic! I am rusty on some of those bands so it'll take some homework before I can tackle that.
For me, i come up with 3 who I think are shoe ins and this is just how I look at it. Black Sabbath for starting it in the 70’s. Trouble for picking it up in the 80’s and Cathedral for doing it in the 90’s. Now #4? Hmmm I could almost make a case for My dying Bride (she’s ok now don’t worry lol bad joke). But, they really kinda took it in a new direction with the death metal elements, violins female vocals and old gothic atmosphere. You could make a similar case for Paradise Lost. Like you said though they kind of wandered off from doom as their careers went on. This is/was a good topic!
Good point; Kellen brought that up during the livestream- with so many offshoots of Doom it gets hard to compare the bands to one another. That's not really an issue with Thrash.
Forest of Equilibrium is one of my all time favorite records of any genre!
I go through phases with that album. There are times I play it a lot, then I won't touch it again for years. It is a very cool album.
@ a winter album for sure ⚔️
For me:
*Candlemass
*Trouble
*Pagan Altar
*Saint Vitus
HMs - Black Hole, Witchfinder General
I'm an "epic doom" fanatic, so of course Solitude Aeturnus, Solstice, Scald and Doomsword are very important to me.
Among the newer ones in this niche, I highly recommend the first two albums by Crypt Sermon, Monasterium (Church of Bones, Cold Are The Graves), Evangelist (Deus Vult!, Ad Mortem Festinamus), Atlantean Kodex (borderline doom, but it's worth it), The Temple (Of Solitude Triumphant, great album), Cromlech (vocals can be weird, but for me, they are great)... list goes on and on.
I will also add Iron Griffin, slightly different playing, a bit of Black Sabbath + Manilla Road + Medieval Folk + 70's prog. And female vocals (very good). Original band.
Hail from Poland!
Great list! 'Kodex is my favorite band of the 21st century! I'll have to check out Monasterium, I don't think I've heard them. I have heard some Iron Griffin; pretty unique sound, like you said. The Temple is quite good too. When done well Epic Doom is fantastic stuff.
Love Saint Vitus but I see your point about your reasons. A friend gave me 2 Revrend Bizarre and they are a stranger band some good songs and some ridiculous tedious songs too. Great stuff video Alan!
Thanks George! I love Vitus too and I think they would make the cut, but other bands might edge them out. And I agree about Rev, some of their songs are good but 'tedious' is a good way to describe other tracks from them.
Hey Alan where would you put Ozzy's first 2 albums do you consider them doim ?? Thanks and look forward to every Tuesday morning to talk Metal !!!
Thanks Jeff, glad you enjoy the show :)
I've never thought of those Ozzy albums as doom though now that you mention it at least some songs do have the right atmosphere (for example, Mister Crowley).
I think Ozzy's first two solo albums owe more to the energy and spirit of NOWBHM than anything to do with doom, not unlike the first two Sabbath albums with Dio.
@@Frank_nwobhm I usually think of them as 'traditional HM' records.
@letstalkmetal
Yes, very much so, but then again, so was a lot of NWOBHM.
Hello Alan. I have just watched Heavy Metallurgy "best of 1990-99 decade". I have not known FATES WARNING before. Thanx to You, I listen to it now. Well, this is VERY good ! Very good. But I dont hear here nothing more that QUEENSRYCHE have not done before... Of course I respect Your opinion, everyone has his own, but REALLY FATES WARNING "Parallels" as an album of the decade ?
Glad you checked it out. I have a very strong emotional connection w/ 'Parallels' going back 32 years, so it's always high on my list of best 90s albums. But like I said during the stream, my top album of the 90s does change from time to time.
You're right about the Queensryche comparison; QR was always the band that FW got compared to. They both did a lot of incredible albums over time.
Also I think MEMENTO MORI fits well into Doom . 4 amazing records !!!
Yep, I agree they fit. I had their first album but it never really sunk into my brain. I have an irrational distaste for a lot of things that Mike Wead played on, which makes no sense as he's a good guitarist. I just seem to 'down vote' many albums that feature him.
I’m having a hard time finding the video you speak about in the beginning of this video. Would you mind providing a link?
RUclips blocks comments with links, but I will add the link to this video's show notes so you can find it. Hope that helps!
I would add Count Raven as a top tier for 90's Doom Metal bands. They didn't do much after that.
I like CR and briefly considered them.. I wonder if they sound a bit too much like 'Sabbath though.
Big Four of Doom : TROUBLE, CANDLEMASS, MY DYING BRIDE, dISEMBOWELMENT . Howgh!
disEMBOWELMENT is a good example of a band with a very short catalog having a huge influence over the years.
@@letstalkmetal Yes ! In my opinion bands like BLOOD INCANTATION, SPECTRAL VOICE and many others are using dISEMBOWELMENT as insoiration. Great band that influenced so many bands 30 yaers later.
Black Sabbath, Pagan Altar,, Candlemass and Pentagram
All fantastic bands!
1. Black Sabbath
2. Trouble/Eric Wagner
3. Witchfinder General
4. Saint Vitus
I mean, Black Sabbath invented the term DOOM after all with their song "Hand Of Doom".
Trouble and Witchfinder General and Saint Vitus, for me, were the first bands to pick up the torch of doom which Sabbath had dropped years before. That makes them top four for me.
Honorable mentions would be Candlemass, Reverend Bizarre, Count Raven and...Sleep!!
I would not have guessed SLEEP would make your list. I've never checked out much of their stuff.
@letstalkmetal
LOL..I just tossed Sleep in there for the fun of it. I do think Dopesmoker/Jerusalem is brilliant though. I'm sure that if I gave it some thought, I would think of somebody besides Sleep, like Pagan Altar perhaps. Truth be told, I like doom a lot, but don't have a broad range in the genre.
@@Frank_nwobhm I think a lot of folks are the same way. Since Doom doesn't get the same level of exposure as other genres it can be hard to find out about a wide range of doom bands. I'm always amazed at how many Rick can dig up that no one lese seems to know.
@@letstalkmetal
I tend to become satisfied with the discovery of just a few bands in any particular genre/sub-genre. I seldom feel the need to keep exploring further and further.
@@Frank_nwobhm Nothing wrong with that. I tend to dig into a lot of genres, but that means I don't get to know bands in as much detail
For me:
Fires in the Distance
Abysmal Dimension
Gateway (Bel)
Wallow
Cool, I'll have to check those out
Where does Type O Negative come into this? 😁
Fair question. I don't know if they fall inside or outside the boundaries of Doom. They're definitely doomy much of the time, but are they more rock than metal? Are they more goth than doom? I don't know their catalog well enough to say with any certainty.
@@letstalkmetal from my perspective, type o negative are a salad where the dressing is always doom, but ingredients/leaves may be thrash-y, pink floyd-y or goth-y, depending on the tempo, lol. The use of keyboards, as always, means a band can sound quite different from album to album. My favourite song of theirs is “In Praise of Bacchus” 😁
@@elmosexwhistle Nice analogy. 'Salad' definitely works for TON given their love of green :)
Sheesh, this was hard. I totally agree that almost every doom band have serious blemishes, especially the "classic", well known doom bands. I dare everyone in this comment section to listen to the "Candlemass Sjunger Sigge Fürst" EP, for example - although it can be viewed as a novelty (and not entirely serious) release. I can't stand Cathedral, I think it's Lee's vocals. Absolutely love Witchfinder General and Pagan Altar. But are they "top 4"? Definitely not. Another solid doom band was Hour Of 13, not a bad album there. But not top 4, nope. The Gates Of Slumber released what's possibly the best doom song of the entire 2000's (To Kill And Be King), but top 4? Nah. I suppose it'll have to be Candlemass (by far) followed by Pentagram, Vitus and Trouble. Just because of them being forerunners and most influential. But they're certainly not without their flaws.
Some good considerations there Kristian! TGoS were really good right around that 'Conqueror' album. HOUR OF 13 never quite won me over, but I should revisit them sometime.
@@letstalkmetal Also forgot to mention Solstice. But they're not top 4 material either. 🙂
@@khnud Agreed. They've made some fantastic music but their catalog is small, a bit obscure, and they didn't debut until well into the 90s.
If we're talking strictly doom without bringing in stoner, gothic, death, drone, or sludge into the mix, I think it narrows it down to a pretty manageable list. One would have to bring Black Sabbath into question. Black Sabbath is to me, and many others, the start of metal in general. I like BangerTV's approached to the genre debates in the aspect. To me, Black Sabbath are the legend for doom. We have a definitive beginning point. That being said, Black Sabbath don't identify as doom metal, nor was anyone calling them doom metal until more bands in a similar vein popped up (at least to the best of my knowledge). When looking for the big four, it might be prudent to consider longevity. There are bands like Iron Man and Witchfinder General which have a great album or two, but then basically disappeared. For this same reason, we can discount newer bands because they don't have the legacy. Bands like Pallbearer blew during their first two albums but everything since has been met with mesh from most people outside of their hardcore fan base. Pentagram, Saint Vitus, and Candlemass all seem to fit easily in place from a popularity and influence standpoint. That fourth spot is sort of the Anthrax spot. Trouble is probably what I would think, but The Obsessed could fit there. Count Raven has also been going for a while, but aren't quite as influential. I think I'd have to go with Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Candlemass, and Trouble. As an aside, my personal favorites if we're bringing in other subgenres of doom are Sleep, Ufomammut, Electric Wizard, and Cathedral.
I like your Banger TV-based approach! Sleep and Electric WIzards would be good candidates from other subgenres for sure.
While doom isn't a genre I listen to much I do have albums by my dying bride and paradise lost one of the recurring themes with a lot of the bands you showed was the short and sporadic back catalogues when the big four tag was coined for the thrash bands they'd already put out 4 or 5 albums in a relative short time period
Good point Robert. Many doom bands didn't have that consistent output that the thrash bands did.
MDB are my favorite this probably isn’t the true big 4 but my favorite 4
MDB
Trouble
Candlemass
Paradise Lost
Good list Devon! I like a lot of PL, I just don't know if their catalog as a whole falls a bit outside of Doom Metal.
@@letstalkmetal yah that’s a good point
For me there is no big four, just the big one: sabbath. It is what it is. They have songs so archetypal in the style that they are the elephant in the room. It’s the less fun answer and it breaks a lot of what we think in terms of how extreme styles came to be in the 80s but you can’t fault them for being so ahead of the game. If they had only a handful of songs they would get the “proto” label but they have at least one entire doom album (master) and enough material to make another full pure doom album and probably more
Electric wizard
I can see Wizard being in the conversation; they were a huge deal for quite awhile (maybe they still are, I lost track of them after several albums).
COUNT RAVEN ?
Very good band, though I think I'd just choose 'Sabbath over them.
Witchfinder General only had a very short discography and made a lot of mistakes during their "career", but in my opinion they had a huge influence on younger bands like Electric Wizard.
Maybe this is me being a fanboy, but Witchfinder General have never gotten the respect they deserve.
Agreed on all counts. I'm glad they've gotten some recognition even though it took a long time.
Sabbath's only doom albums, IMO, are Master of Reality. and Vol. 4. Saint Vitus' first LP is a doomy Blue Oyster Cult.
Master for sure, other albums have some good doomy stuff spread across them.
Never thought of that first SV as a doomy BOC before. Vitus definitely had some influences that don't show up in a lot of other doom bands
@@letstalkmetal Reagers (to my ears) apes Eric Bloom's vocal style. Those two Sabbath albums have Iommi at his doomy, sludgy, down-tune-y best.
@@ashbowen6551 Master of Reality is my fave from that era of Sabbath, definitely their doomiest
Curious which frontman do you prefer in st vitus Scott reager or Wino? Perhaps you like them both.
I do like both but if I have to choose I'll take Scott. His voice has a very unique creepiness to it that's perfect for a lot of their material.