The Religion of Immigration - Douglas Murray, Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Bret & Eric Weinstein
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A Day of Reckoning was an all-day conference that took place in Sydney, Australia at the ICC on August 12 2018. This conference featured Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Eric Weinstein, Bret Weinstein & Douglas Murray. The event was moderated by Josh Zepps.
The conference included 4 - 90 minute sessions, which included a meditation workshop with Sam Harris.
This conference was presented by Pangburn Philosophy.
If you enjoyed the discussion, please drop a like and consider subscribing! JUST ANNOUNCED: DEC 1ST IN NYC: UFO | What's going on up there?... Lawrence Krauss & Nick Pope. Tickets on sale Sept 15th at Pang-burn.com/tickets
three jews, two gays, and an "atheist muslim". BOY OH BOY, the "white men" target audience are going to love this!
In what universe did this discussion take place?
@@cherylnagy126ú
It is so depressing and disgusting seeing them on Australian streets and public places, even in beaches and swimming pools.
Here's the problem with immigration in a nutshell.
The rich and powerful make decisions about immigration, while the poor and weak have to live with the consequences of immigration policy.
Start moving the immigrants into the rich and powerful neighbourhoods and this whole immigration fiasco will sort itself out by year's end.
The problem with immigration is that diversity = discord. Assimilation works primarily when the immigrants have multiple fundamental things in common with the people they're assimilating with. Religion, race, ethnicity, cultural heritage, etc. Not only do people tend to prefer to be around people they have more in common with, the more people have in common with one another, the less inclination they will have to balkanize, segregate, and divide. America was like 95% white, Western European for most of its history up until around the 1960s when immigration policy changed, and the demographic makeup began to take a very different trajectory. And even before then, there was still quite a bit of contention as a result of diversity (e.g. the reception of the Catholic Irish and Italians, the racial strife between black and white, etc.). But it didn't take that long for the Catholic Irish and Italians to assimilate because at least they were white, and had a common cultural heritage, and common religious beliefs. But now we have people from 150 different countries pouring across the border, all sorts of races, all sorts of ethnicities, speaking all sorts of different languages, with all kinds of different cultural heritage and values, and holding all kinds of different beliefs. It's a recipe for disaster and collapse.
@@mr.mayhem4054 No! You are missing why the majority of people(people that have to deal with immigration first hand) hate immigration. The people who are making the immigration policy have zero skin in the game.
Academics and political types have zero idea why the common person hates immigration because they have zero idea what immigration means to the common person.
You can read about immigration and you can look at spread sheets of data about immigration but until you have your neighbourhood fill up with immigrants, then you have zero idea what immigration means to the common person.
Original post and reply here after are exactly the feelings I have on this also.
you don't get it
exactly!!!
Glad to see they are finally discussing the problems with mass immigration.
Apparently this discussion is already going on for quite some time, at least in some circles, since this event was back in 2018.
However, looking at the recent development at the borders in US and EU, it didn't really change anything unfortunately
Really? What "problems" with "mass immigration"? Let's see some actual evidence that, for one thing, "mass immigration" is even occurring, and then data on these so-called "problems". I won't hold my breath for your response.
Its the displacement of one culture with another. You can say its good or bad, but that's what they're doing. Islam is more important to a faithful Muslim than any secular liberal values.
They have been for a long time. Especially Douglas
Nobody happens to listen
Maajid Nawaz's place on this panel seemed dubious. I know the law he mentioned and it states nothing of the kind. After the mass refugee crisis from Muslim countries there'd been a gigantic spike in violent crimes, the vast majority of which perpetrated by said Muslim refugees. You could blame the system for not integrating them well, but even here in Holland, even after decades and several generations, they still prefer their own neighborhoods with their own mosques. They (the majority of them, at least) don't want to integrate, they want to keep their faith and culture just as it was. A culture that treats women like property, that sees homosexuality as a crime and freedom of speech as treason. That culture will violently clash with any modern society. And in order to even marginally control the spread of crime, the boundaries you have to put in place will have to be "unusual". The Danish law doesn't "name" anyone, doesn't have a separate punishment system and isn't targeting crime at all. Nawaz has no idea what he's talking about.
Roma live in Europe for 500 years and they still have not managed to integrate. So good luck to us with integrating all the Muslims in Europe..
It was really an astounding claim from Maajid. If the law the Danes introduced was anything like he described, that would be atrocious. It's very hard to believe that's what they've introduced. Need to do some digging...
👏👏👏👏
One, this is only one question posed to this panel. Two, Majid is not the only one concerned about the law being untwined by allowing a parallel system to operate.
Same here in the US where Muslims took over Dearborn, Michigan. No assimilation, and Muslims just take over a town and enact their own laws.
Great discussion, Thank you
its depressing to be aware that open borders and mass unvetted immigration is having a huge detrimental effect on your society(Ireland) but be unable to voice concerns for fear of being labelled racist/ far right.
its affecting the economy, tourism, students, the elderly ,policing, judicial system.
in the middle of an ongoing housing catastrophe, the 'new Irish ' (our gov. calls them that) are being allowed to skip the cue in housing , health care, citizenship, voting rights etc.
The Irish are OK with controlled integrated immigration, but whats happening is overwhelming, we are a small population. It wont end well, cue the rise of the Actual far right.This is deliberate.
Ireland wasn't bothered when things were going in the other direction.
I don't think the Irish were advocating the chopping off of heads either if you drew a cartoon that they didn't like@@philipmorgan6048
@@philipmorgan6048as in hundreds of years ago?
Immigration is a red herring. "Immigration" is an invalid Statist concept, you know it is, because they have to enforce it or people would just go places. National borders are totally made up. At the end of the day, the people against immigration don't seem to understand: It's not your country. You're a peon to rich corporate terrorists and the bureaucrats who facilitate them
Maajid Nawaz is mendacious about the Danish laws. The Muslims in Denmark are unwilling to integrate, and you can't forcefully integrate a people. Nor should you need to force people to integrate.
Geographically the Muslims live in Denmark, but their minds lives in the Middle East.
Every other ethnic minority integrate beautifully. The Muslims are the only exception.
The reason: Islam, and Islamic supremacy.
Ratchets go only in one direction
Islamic values take precedent to a Muslim over Danish values. The only way you can get around that is if the kids of the immigrants become less religious, which actually tends to happen.
@@jeffk464 that does work, but only if those kids are not brought up in isolated communities from where their parents come from.
@@jeffk464 In very small groups, but when you let a giant amount of immigrants in so they can live in insular communities: no.
I’m married to the Muslim for 20 years. And all this time we live in Lithuania. He didn’t have any problem to integrate to international society, because he speaks 3 languages and is a broad minded. But when it came to business and work, it was struggle not only for him, but for other businessmen foreigners too. The moment we moved from the capital to the smaller town and our son started to frequent Lithuanian school after International private school, he got some problems to integrate because completely different mentality. But as his psychologist said - life is not about comfort - the boy will toughen up and will win as personality at the end. And actually this is what happened.
What Douglas says around 3:30 about how people have to read between the lines of stories is so incredibly true.
There was a big story over the summer of a huge brawl breaking out in a German swimming pool. I noticed that the BBC was being extremely careful to not give you any hint what it was about or what people were involved. So I looked into it and... of course...
The recent stabbing in Ireland. No article would give specifics about the name of or a physical description of the assailant. I hen assumed he wasn’t Caucasian, and was likely a recent immigrant.
A few days later, my assumptions proved correct.
@@damonlay7562 There was one in France too, a whole group of immigrant kids went after an entire dance party of people. Nine witnesses reported hearing a specific racial threat made against the party goers, one teen fatality. The BBC did not report the story itself. But they DID report "French Government Cracks Down on Ultra-Giga-Right Wing Protests"
Similar patterns in Indian media. They do not mention religion or name of it’s a Muslim criminal. But if the man has a Hindu name even if he is not Hindu they promote it as Hindu boy.
Reminds me of the meme of the reporter from south park that says "let's not jump to concl.......aaand it's Muslims.
Jameson - I still shake my head that Germany allowed in so many Muslims. When I was there decades ago the German people made no bones about disliking Muslims. I saw it with my own eyes multiple times a day.
This is a great conversation and more people should watch this. Super proud this took place in Australia.
Thank you all
Australia such a hot country. Imagine this disgusting look on the streets. Should ban this immediately. Pauline Hanson wearing it again in disguise to the Parliament.
It wouldn't take place in Australia today. These people wouldn't get into the country.
Muslim emigration to Western Europe is disastrous for this civilisation. Sweden, Denmark, France, Germany learn hard way, and is impossible to stop downfall. Muslims should migrate to rich Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar , Kuwait etc
They won't let them in
The worst part of this is that we are not allowed to know the plan, why they are doing this, influence the decisions or elect a different policy.
You are allowed to read LOCKSTEP and the KISSINGER REPORT etc. The NWO publishes its stuff. It's true the UN removed the contents of their original Replacement documents but you can find the table of contents.
Why who is "doing" what? What are you babbling about?
@@themaskedman221 - watch the video and find out. I’d elaborate but you are too rude to care about.
@@wessexexplorer Again, what "plan" are you talking about? You're the one who wrote it, you don't know what you meant either? I did watch the video, but turned it off after realizing (rather early) that none of these guys know anything about the subject of immigration.
Your reply suggests you know full well what I’m talking about: the plan for immigration over coming years.
Our government was voted in on a manifesto that promised immigration in the 10s of thousands not millions, but that same government has never explained why it did this, nor what the plan is for the future. We are talking about issuing visas here, which are entirely under the control of the Home Office.
I don’t understand why some people argue in such bad faith if they truly believe their position is rational and reasonable.
I know not many Brits will ever say this out loud. So I will.
Having a few Brits, some Americans, and an Aussie.
As a Brit? Maybe those from the Mother Nation don't even see it, but as a proud English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish man (Mixed!) almost brings a pause to my throat.
Guys that's magical, and makes me very proud both personally, and on behalf of my fellow inhabitants sat on these small collection of Islands we call the British Isles. Despite the darkness, the horror that ensued in parallel to our 'Empire'. We see some of the Flowers from that forgotten soil we once laid, begin to shine.
We all share different corners of the World - but we are a testament to ourselves, our culture, our heritage, our respect as we stand on the shoulders of past giants.
We have a duty, to preserve that dignity that has allowed us to have these types of discussions, freely. These men, all of who'm - I would be happy for my children to view as teachers, as thinkers, as good honest men that they can harvest wisdom from.
Thanks for the great debate gentlemen, and long may it continue.
God Bless OUR shared culture
Are the Irish really British? Remember 200 years ago what they did during the times of hunger?
Most Irish rather be with the EU than with the Royal inbreds..
Beautiful ❤
This is entirely fascinating - but particularly Douglas Murray's ending discussion on the conflict between human justice and human mercy. Nail on the head.
As a German much of this is quite satisfying to hear.
It is absolutory a right for any rich nation to control its borders and restrict immigration. it is also important for the rich country to hold their hands off and their military interventions in poor countries.
ITS A RIGHT FOR ANY COUNTRY TO DO THIS REGARDLESS OF WEALTH
Immigration tends to be more toward rich countries from poor countries
"Rich nations" restrict immigration at their own peril.
@@ahmedalarabi1568 There's an expat thing, people retiring to countries with lower cost of living and possibly less control minded governments.
People of good will tend to believe that all religions teach the same thing. But this is not the case with Islam. While Jesus said "love your enemies", the Quran clearly teaches that you should fight those who oppose Allah and his prophet.
Have lost so much sleep worrying about what Europe especially will look like 5-10 years from now and whether it will even exist in a few decades
i think what they were getting at was, immigration could be infinite if everybody coming in, agreed with my ideology and did not conflict with me politically.
but that is not the case, immigrants often want radically different politics and culture, even in some cases, parallel legal structures.
that is why some ppl are against mass uncontrolled immigration.
Immigrants come to the west because of what the west had to give. Then out of ignorance and stupidity they try to turn the west into what they escaped from.
RUclips has hidden one of your replyers.
@@johnjay370 thanks, probably spam?
Integrate?
Dual citizenship/passports usually facilitate collection of "social benefits" in both countries.
Only a few years later (2023) is exactly what we are seeing in Europe: Immigration influx is too fast, and our system is breaking down as it was a false promise that we can take care of everyone. And I agree with Maajid about not all cultures being equal (as in evolution), and we are seeing the degradation of our own cultures all over Europe because of the intense influx of uncontrolled mass migration. Multi-culturalism can only go so far, but in the end usually implodes. So yes there should be a pre-selection to an extend as Sam Harris suggested, we can't just let in anybody, especially not people who threaten our culture, morals and ethics, freedom of speech and freedoms for individuals. It feels like we are moving backwards and not forward on a lot of those issues.
Fantastic discussion with a great panel, and very much an debate for our time in Western societies.
Majid why does no Muslim ever quote Chapter and Verse from any of the Islamic Narratives for instance The Reliance of the Traveller (Book of Islamic Sharia (Law)) Book Q pf 713 731 pdf
Commanding the Right and Forbidding the Wrong.. For Example the 9 Steps to Force a person or an Institution to Submit to the Strength of Islam.
The ACT OF CENSURING q5.0
Degrees of Severity q5.l
Knowledge of the wrong act q5. 2
Explaining that something is wrong q5.3
Forbidding the act verbally q5,4
Censuring with harsh words q5.5
Righting the wrong by hand q5.6
Intimidation q5.7
Assault q5.8
Force of arms q5.9
These 9 subsections can escalate very quickly, as can be seen across the Planet in recent years.
all the religions cherry pick what suits them.
and often misinterpret.
@@klnrklnr4433 Islam is an ideology, That is mysogenistic governing your every move to gain entry into the fictional world of Jannah. An individual only gets enough information to keep them Submitted to the ideology whilst women get a different teaching. The majority will not know of Reliance of the Traveller or the Unsheathed sword both times of Sharia. Threatening with a fictional Hell an individual is brainwashed with the 72 big eyed virgin's and their 24 hour stiffy.
@@klnrklnr4433 Islam is in 1445 with Religion and State not breaking apart. Religion in the loosest of term's Ideology.
So for my two cents . The real root cause of this starts way before this debate at a fundamental core point and it is the reason I believe that we are on an inevitable collision.
Humans are not inherently rational , most of the time .
I enjoyed this discussion and found a lot of ideas and solutions that were valuable. It doesn translate down the hill at all. People aren't employing critical thinking , or even being encouraged to learn how .
The internet now has provided more access to knowledge than every other time in history . It has done nothing to show people how to sift through mounds of sometimes contradictory information . You just look at the news that confirms your biases.
Elementary school should put as it's priority, critical thinking . Get away from the general STEM emphasis and not teach people what too think but how.
I would love to see James Lyndsay on the panel.
You will never again see these five together in a conversation. Some don't talk to each other any more.
@@kiwigrunt330What?! Really? Why?
@@artistjuliadocherty Trump and Covid have brought the worst out of some of them. Let's include James in that. Sam and James, in opposite directions, have gone a bit over the top on Trump. But more importantly, Bret and Maajid have gone quite far down the deep end on the anti-vax narrative. Sam has been more than critical about that.
In Germany after the war we had Turkish „guest workers“ who helped rebuild the country. Back then they thought they go back some day. Now we have a mix of these people where some are interacted just well, subcultures and many who didn’t even learned German at all. They even created their own German dialect that is a stereotype for „not well educated“
When I moved here in December 2014 from England so I could live next to my only brother who came here in 1979 (as a carpenter) and stayed and married a local girl, (he celebrated his 40th Wedding anniversary last October). I read that only approx 40% of Turks had German Passports and the majority of the elderly Turks who have been in Germany for decades never learnt German. It reminds of of the older people who went to the UK from Pakistan and Bangladesh who never learnt English and completely rely on their children to translate for them.
Your Great Grandfather would not have thanked you for 'The Gastarbeiter,' that generation were fed up with their antics by the end of World War 1. Good soldiers but their Aristocracy ?
Yeah, but they aren't a problem, bcs most aren't particularly religious.
The same is true for most Italians or Vietnamese in Germany as well. Having pockets of foreigners that stay most among themselves isn't a problem.
Having people that are serious about following an evil religion is.
We need this panel reconvening at this time!
Just calculating the chances of my being whinged at when this goes on my FB page...
A dead cert.
Oh well, here we go.
Thank you all involved.
I hate the way this channel recycles old podcasts. You think, oh hey there is something new and interesting let’s klick on it and then 20 minutes in you think, wait a minute I feel like I heard all of that before. Than you look it up and it turns out it’s a years old video that hast just been reuploaded
Excellent interview excellent analysis
20:22 absolutely. We need to recognize we clearly do have a culture- and it is being destroyed and needs saving
Why does culture need saving?
@@aiex010. Because it’s valuable. Take one part of our culture: the protection and recognition of private property. I find it valuable that others respect my property and I don’t have to appeal to the state for its protection / because I recognise other’s property and they recognise my.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 you're clearly not from this planet or universe!
@51:00 - 52:00 .. freedom Bret, the dichotomy you're missing is freedom vs authoritarianism. You have the freedom to sit there and call out the corporations, and those who hear you have the choice to inform their kids of the corporate tactics, without punishment. The women in burkas do not.
That's why his brother, and others, made it clear that Bret wasn't drawing moral equivalence with his analogy, because that would be ridiculous. I think Bret was saying that we might need to do some cleaning on our side of the street as well.
@@Big_DT and he has no idea how to do that other than a different authoritarianism, and I agree there is no way to do that other than a different kind of authoritarianism. The only question is which kind of authoritarianism do you propose as a means to clean up our side of the street? Are you going to take away a womans freedom to sell their body? Force corporations to pay better wages to disincentive sex work and the money people can make in it compared to regular jobs? I personally think the latter would have a greater impact in that regard.
You sure as heck can't ban the act of attraction.
@@adamhustler3639 I didn't say I agree with him, but it is generally a healthy practice to take a good look in the mirror every now and then. These are complex problems and most people don't have the stomach for such discussions, let alone the will to make changes, whatever those changes may be. I think, and I could be wrong, Bret is advocating for developing our western culture(s) to the point where it's more attractive to immigrants than their own culture is. That would mean continuing to support, freedoms of speech, press, religion, etc..., but would also mean continuing to add to those ideals. Let's face it, many immigrants are coming to the west for economic opportunities, not for Western culture or even as political refugees, so they keep their culture instead of truly integrating into the host country's one. At least that's the case here in the US. Again, I'm not sure I agree with him, but at least he's willing to talk about it.
@@Big_DT he's willing to talk about parts of it, but not other parts, because he, like others, knows that talking about the other parts (aka the authoritarian acts that would be required) would make him look bad and not really any different than the middle eastern autocracies.
@@adamhustler3639 I came to the realization a long time ago, that trying to change people is a fools errand. The question is...If the status quo isn't working for the host nations, what should they do?
Thank God for some very inteligent people diiscussing an almost taboo topic created by idiots.
46:00 Bret kills it. What an eye opener. I never considered the relationship between these things.
We also have not solved the problem that the burka tries to solve.
have you seen comic joke where a woman in a burqa and a woman in a swimsuit are both looking at each other, and thinking the other is being oppressed? Also, men do not like to be teased too much (which is a form of control) but women also would not want to be controlled by men, which is the conflict of interest that Bret was pointing to.
Sorry, but his argument is complete BS. The last time I checked our Western values dont demand to lock up our females in room or soft prisons.
You could argue that the 1968 sexual revolution and so called emanzipation was to a degree counter productive for feminism, but this is a) a complete different discussion and b) far less problematic
"Battle between the call for human justice and the call for human mercy." Pretty much the center point of Haidt's book, "The Righteous Mind." At least in as far as temperaments go between the political right and left.
The goal has to be better governance in African and Asia. We can not move all the people or take all excess population into Europe and expect it to stay different from what these people are leaving.
That is surely the goal, however, an elderly man I spoke to in South Sudan who was a teacher caught up in the war there said, I quote directly:
The African only respects power, most especially at the end of a gun. Until this changes Africa will remain as it is.
First fix your own corrupt countries 😂😂
Fentanyl addictions
Warmongering, fake news and propaganda
good discussion. the final question by the dude on the left, about Greeks and Lebanese assimilating is a classic strawman reverting back to the fallacy that all people are the same, ignoring cultural upbringing.
For starters the west is largely built off the bedrock back of the classics from ancient Greece and then Rome, these setup the stage for the enlightenment as a retort against the dark ages of Christianity. Lebanese peoples had some amount of Christianity as an influence (its about 50%/40% split of Islam/Christianity today says one source). so the Lebanese are also much more compatible in a secular Australia. So to then make a jump to say that people from larger majority Islamic nations are going to be just as compatible, when they were not tempered by either Christianity or the enlightenment, is just wishful thinking. Good luck with that leap of faith.
There are three important points with immigration: (1) volume & velocity (which Eric spoke well on), (2): quality of the culture your importing. its just like a basketball team, if your the coach you dont wanna import as much of the shitty cultures (the left idiots will screech but this means islamic cultures, where you basically only want a drip not a deluge). (3) the third issue is not keeping up to speed with fixing the problems that too much of (1) creates, such as unaffordable housing and failing public transport. The housing example is particularly good example because in Australia its relevant to migrants from china, whom are peaceful hardworking people in general and assimilate well in a generation, but however, importing all the rich Chinese results in them buying up all the real estate which causes its own problems. Again Eric spoke cogently on this when he spoke about the economics of rentseekers. Why would we build more houses, when we can just import more rich Chinese people to push up housing prices and thus improve our real estate portfolio position? The pseudo elite think that they were very smart to implement that strategy for the last decade or more, but its ultimately unsustainable.
0:17: 🗣 Douglas Murray discusses the need for a more level-headed approach to immigration and challenges the idea that immigrants are always a positive influence.
5:47: 📚 Denmark has passed a law designating certain areas as 'ghetto areas' and requiring children born in these areas to attend citizenship classes or risk losing welfare benefits, while also imposing double punishment for crimes committed in these areas.
10:36: 📚 The discussion highlights the double standard in dealing with extremism and the deportation of Lauren Southern under terrorism laws.
16:25: 🌍 Immigrants embracing the culture of the country they enter can lead to better outcomes, but rapid and large-scale immigration can create sub-populations with distinct cultures, leading to racism and extremism.
21:22: 🗣 The importance of culture in the immigration debate and the need for a common ground.
27:02: 🗣 The video discusses the dangers of introducing personal claims and the need for consequences for frivolously making false claims in debates.
32:48: 🔑 The speaker discusses the importance of understanding people's beliefs and the need to have zero jihadists in society.
39:07: 🗣 There is no objective way to claim that warfare and violence are bad, but different systems can produce more or less of them based on agreed-upon values.
44:39: 📢 The speaker discusses the failure of the left to connect extremist thoughts with racism.
50:16: 📚 The speaker finds the Dogma in a book morally objectionable due to its rigid adherence regardless of the suffering it causes.
55:28: 🌍 The conversation highlights concerns about cultural assimilation and the compatibility of Enlightenment values with migrant communities.
Recap by Tammy AI
I now only need to spend minutes understanding the content of this video. You're a time-saver Tammy AI!
So this debate is how old? I hear one of them say 2018.
Thank you ❤- from Germany 🇩🇪
From a Brit, love Germany, one of my most favourite places to visit, stop electing fools please, I'll stop voting for my fools.
@@jumblestiltskin1365 will certainly give it a go!!
Douglas said it correct: punish the assigning of intent to others if no reproducible proof.
Make the loser of a lawsuit pay the whole cost.
@@williambranch4283 - Really? How does that work as anything but more extreme lawfare when judges, DAs, juries and prosecutors are corrupt? Have you followed the J6 persecutions? What about the Trump indictments?
When the law itself is weaponized against establishment opponents, forcing those opponents to bear the entire cost of litigation is insane. The institutions have epically failed to the point there is no avenue for citizens to rely on those institutions to self-correct. This is the state of our world. There is no easy, pat answer.
Culture is also location dependent. If it is "what we do around here", by definition it's not what we do over there. Therefore, if you move to a different location, you should try to adopt the culture you find yourself in or go back to where you came from.
What a bunch of complete horseshit.
Either something is good or it's bad. Your location on the earth doesn't matter one bit.
People moving to places and bringing better ideas is one of the major in ways in with civilization works.
Islam is every bit as bad on the Arabian peninsula as it is in Denmark.
@@MrCmon113 if that were the case, it wouldn't exist. I challenge you to go to the Arabian peninsula and convince them how bad it is.
Sam could learn something about immigration by studying biology! Not a single cell in life forms are without cell walls that regulate.
Yeah, well, if cells are to evolve into tissues, tissues into organs and organs into an organism they all have to learn to cooperate. That’s just evolution.
@flyfree78644 I love the baby steps atheist are taking towards the living God! It must be awesome for them to add these miracles to their models. Maybe in a million years, they will have a complete picture.
If you want to abandon your country, you need to abandon the values that led to its unhabitability.
Douglas, please stand for UK PM! You'd be in No 10!
Does anybody know of any sincere and earnest academic sources that write about negative consequences to immigration?
My personal view is that immigration is by and large a net positive over long stretches of time, and that most cases of negative consequences from immigration are from extreme circumstances of short term mass immigration.
Im open to being persuaded away from my current views, but I need worthy and thorough sources.
There is a RUclips channel I like that is presented by the author Simon Webb, its called History Debunked. He often speaks on Immigration and always politely with links to his sources and material. You could do worse than checking him out as a starter.
To answer your question, please go to Canada and try to get a home here. When immigration doesn't match the country's ability to provide housing that is at least somewhat affordable, everyone's quality of life goes down, which is a net negative. Of course, there are other factors at play (like how much it costs getting a permit), but to say that the plan to bring 1.5 million people over the course of 3 years doesn't affect the cost of housing in a meaningful way is to be very, very biased. I would even say ideologically captured and therefore being blind to the reality.
For sources, you can see the number of immigration 10-15 years ago vs. now, the house prices and how they changed across time. It is also worth looking into the numbers of international students, because every single person who comes into a country needs a place to stay at.
I don't think to understand this particular effect you need to dig deep into the academic sources.
Ask Japan how their culture lacks the same lustre carried in the western nations described in this talk.
A fatal case of Professor Sam Harris' ignorance.
But the MAJOR question remains Why don’t Muslim refugees immigrate to wealthy Arab countries like Bharain, UAE, Dubai, Quatra, even egypt etc?🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
7:35 Integration isn’t one sided and this is where I think most people discussing integration get it wrong. The premise is that it is the immigrant that becomes a integrated part of our society by adopting our way of life, not the other way around. To integrate something in to a system is to make it a natural working part of the system. I don’t want to integrate islam in my life, me and islam doesn’t fit, and islam doesn’t fit in to our society, not as it is for the moment anyway, and no muslim wants to assimilate our way of life.⚠️
I’m continually disappointed w/ Sam Harris. Some of his assertions in the range 29:00 - 36:00 betray sloppy thinking.
E.g. he seems to want a one world govt. That would lead to a significant reduction in freedom and put us on the road to authoritarianism.
Why would a muslim want to intergrate? They have a book that tells them how the world must be.
As far as they are concerned, its the world that must integrate with them.
Anything less is an insult to Allah.
Not to mention they are too infantile
@@vizveebee Generalizing is infantile because it fails to acknowledge subtlety.
Can the Weinsteins please train themselves to make a simple point without talking air and wasting the precious time of the audience by presenting word salads for 20+ minutes. Thanks.
27:43 - yes! Exactly!
I particularly appreciated Bret's comments about the sexualization of young girls (and women) and all the evil that is part of it.
Sexualization of women? You don't think women are sexual?
Polygamy is misogyny. True Polygamy without misogyny allows women to have any spouses. Polygamy should not be allowed in society.
Why are there so many problem with muslim´s ?
Their belief system is antidemocratic, misogynous, repressive, violent, xenophobic.....
Read their book.
Edit- 35:40 - Sam expands on what he was saying, which wasn’t what he believes can actually occur but what the ‘compassionate’ argument claims
(30:22 - open borders &/or a One Global Govmt would be disastrous.)
The West has evolved through many struggles to get to where we are Islam is on its own journey and it is not our Problem to get involved or to bring it here they have to evolve at their own pace in their own country
when Sam says how much credit do you want to be given for being born where you were born....... credit from who?! who is this Universal Credit Giver
Sam is the worst of Both Worlds, he claims to be rational and irreligious but his whole world view is essentially religious. You can't be a rational atheist and also believe that there is a universal morality.
You don't have to be an unethical monster, and in fact I would say thinking that there is a universal morality that you have access to is a Surefire way to become corrupt.... Sam should have taken Jordan Peterson more seriously instead of assuming he was trying to trick him.
It's his lack of generosity that makes him fail as an intellectual, he assumes he can read other people's hearts and Minds.... and fails miserably
Not only humans, but even animals sometimes behave in ways that appear ethical. Perhaps ethics is a product of evolution, and various religions have followed suit. For example, the teaching not to kill facilitates the survival of the herd. This is probably why Sam believes in universal ethics.
But modern society is so complex that the ethics acquired through evolution are not enough, so we need laws that can be improved by reason.
43:20 its also that everyone in their own specific situation maximise reducing theri specific suffering
"im starving but have 12 kids, allow me to overpopulate your country so job is overcompeted, wage go lower, and food is more scarse and more expensive"
but that person win reducing their suffering, but augmenting our suffering of lower wage, more competition, more mouth to feed, more epxneisve food.
"you lucky to be born in a modern country with food and wage. let me come overpopulate it after having compasion for my single life, while ill do 12 kids that have 144 kids , that will have your wage and your food so we can all be poor and starve"
Even sexual insecurity is a personal choice in the end, burka is not, min: 51:00
Stoning is obligatory for sodomy
Not all immigrants are in the same category. You cannot compare immigrants from SubSaharan Africa who culturally authoritarian social conservatives with Latin American immigrants who are mostly coming to America for opportunity instead of culture war. When it comes to immigration issue, western country have to be selective in filtering. I know is complex but it has to be manage. Undocumented immigrants from Latin America doesn’t posed threats to American Free society and most of those undocumented who came to US today are from Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba that are trying to escape failed socialist authoritarian regimes and they are no fan of the regime that rule their nation.
It will not lead to the fall of western society if we help these ppl gain refugee status and pathway to citizenship as opposed to the Syrian Arab and SubSaharan African who are brought up with authoritarian social construct even if they are opposed to Bashar Al-Assad.If immigrant assimilation were such a failure, the 1986 Amnesty passed by Republican president Ronald Reagan would have brought down the US culture but it didn’t.
It is important to distinguish immigrants such as Kurds, Cuban, Nicaraguan, Venezuelan including Iranian who are mostly opposed to their oppressive Islamic regime than those from Arab , African and other part of global south nations that are culturally authoritarians and borderline fascist.
And also not all Muslims are in the same category. Majority of Iranians and Kurds who wants freedom, fighting against Islamic orthodoxy are not comparable to those majority of Syrian and Iraqi Arab who wants another authoritarian religious conservative regime despite their opposition to Saddam Hussein and Bashar Al-Assad.
No matter how much pedagogy of assimilation that were offer to these conservative Arab immigrants in Denmark and Norway it will be hard to change the frame of mind of the mass that were brought up with these authoritarian social construct along with their antisemitism that were entrenched in their society. I hope the liberal pedagogy may help the young assimilate into western culture but it will be hard to change the mind of adult who are set in their ways.
This seems sensible. It has my vote but it needs to be heard by more people.
Most of the immigration problems in Europe are coming from Kurds (and Afghans) not Arabs.
I broadly agree here with your thoughts, however, I still believe that flooding the "system" with vast numbers that never properly assimilate regardless of background is a recipe for disaster.
I beg to disagree. Unfortunately some Latin americans breed folks who join gang wars that just create havoc in the western world. The other thing I've observed is that, Latin folks have a tendency to be socialist.
the two weinsteins are losing the point and answering the next question. They dont really deserve a place here in this debate
This discussion continues the years long identification of the problems. However, no one seems to be willing or able to put forward a solution or solutions to the any of the problems. Do they not have any suggestions or are they afraid to suggest?
The solution is obvious but uncomfortable in light of the fact that multi-cultural societies do not succeed!
The solution is entirely obvious, to everyone.
@@krisvq It's not obvious to me. Why is everyone who knows the solution afraid to state the obvious?
What is the answer?
I love multiculturalism to an _extent_
Not all cultures are equal and not all cultures assimilate.
I'm against segregation and "sending people back" but I'm also against some religious principals and some cultural norms.
The solution is western corporations/government/banks stop exploiting and bombing the 3rd world, help them become rich - which they never will, unless we change things
Control immigration with passport/checks and proper border control. As a homeless person in Ireland your best chance would be to leave the country and come back with no passport or documents - you could get a house within 8 months compared to Irish people on the housing list for 12 yrs.This is designed to enrage people - what is the end game?
Very impressive intellectuals some of the best the world has to offer. But the answers to life will never be found through the intellect. These very intelligent people as they get older, the confusion, lack of fulfilment and regret will set in.
Pretty good conversation. Since I am viewing this after the Oct 7th events and the now almost 3 weeks of overboard compensation war in Gaza (which is political based and, in a different way as the horrible Hamas actions of the 7th, as inhuman i.e. lacking human qualities of compassion and mercy; cruel and barbaric.), this conversation does bring forth some reflexion, serious thoughts or considerations that are too often missing in public space...
BTW, pretty good sound recording, but awful camera work (often leaving the person speaking off screen!).
Ultra rich manipulative strategies to keep themselves at the top of the food chain
Photos of dead children , women is something that gets massive overreactions, Gaza for example the photos are always women & children, whether they are set up or not , never Hamas terrorists.. always gets the reactions.
Its funny but although I'm fairly well traveled, the only time, men tried to touch me up on public transport, two people on separate days, this happened in Jordan; a Muslim Arab country. Homosexuality is rife in Muslim countries.
The Ghetto Law in Denmark was meant to diminish high crime rates in certain areas. It was also meant to get more people off welfare. Many of these places the amount of non-western inhabitants was barely exceeding 50%. So it was directed at special housing areas, not a religion or ethnicities.
It is not uncommon in Denmark to have increased punishment for certain offences OR in certain areas. For example, this was done in a specific, central area of Copenhagen (not in a “ghetto”) where there was open dealing with cannabis, again not directed at any ethnic group or religion. If you commit a crime and it is gang-related you ALSO risk a higher sentence. This goes for Hells Angels as well as any ethnic gangs.
It is also, btw a law common to the entire country, not ghettos only, that you can lose welfare if you don’t comply with certain laws, for example it can be a child not attending school as required.
I actually like Majid. I think he talks a lot of sense usually. But in this case, it seems like he has read a few liberal, US news papers’ version of the Danish law, and just run with that.
And lastly, in Denmark the word “ghetto” does not have the same negative vibes in regards to WHO lives there. It is more a word used to describe dull, concrete grey social housing, often built in the 70’s.
Great talk but trying to watch it in order is a pain. Why didn't you just number these in order??
The English taught the entire world their language. I don’t see Russia having an immigration problem
and your point is?
Not being able to speak a language is a deterrent for immigrants
recent "highly skilled" immigration to uk does not help to pay for pensions - exact opposite. in progressive tax environment the government reduces significantly tax intake by depresing wages and 26K threshold pays just 2K in tax.
I can't help but notice that Sam is totally silent. What is going on with him?
Once he starts it goes on and on .. 🥱
Can anyone point to a SUCCESSFUL multi-cultural society?! 🤬
Yes.
Yes, but not involving muslims..
Thailand
@@davidlamb7524
@@StoneShards A Thai language not THE Thai language. Dialects can vary as much as actual European languages.
Plus there are 51 indigenous languages and many more imported. Hardly homogenous.
It would be nice if people felt some compassion toward their own countrymen for a change. Importing large numbers of people who hate the natives of a country implies great suffering, especially for the poor. And that never gets acknowledged.
No white man can find employment in South Africa and those that are there was anti apartheid yet they are ruined
it’s us versus them in this discussion.
we all forget to put time into our equations. the muslims coming here will see that society doesn’t fall apart when gays are allowed to exist, and learn to accept it. if you think for one minute that is completely solved in the west you are foolish. we(the people of the west) are not any better than the people of other countries.
we may have slightly more control over our policy makers, but that i feel is slipping away.
learning to love all is the key.
? "The legal penalty is obligatorily imposed
upon anyone who fornicates or commits sodomy no matter whether the person is a Muslim, non-
Muslim subject of the Islamic state, or someone
who has left Islam. If the offender is someone with the capac-
ity to remain chaste, then he or she is stoned to
death "
'muslims coming here will see that society doesn’t fall apart when gays are allowed to exist, and learn to accept it'. ah, i see, you are of the opinion that was discussed in a later discussion by the same people, which was pointed out by Douglas and the mistake that is assumed with this mentality. Hint: it is not the society they are worried about.
@@sdrc92126When people are driven by fanatical ideology, their hatred of the other sustains them. When it's religious extremism, there is no discussion.
How about tables for all the speakers.
Not just yesterday in Syria, or 10 years ago in Syria, or in the future, in Syria.
31:40 It's actually not even the ideas it's their attachment to the ideas- it's their actions, obviously ideas influence that but it's really about fanaticism
It's really about thinking that you got all the answers and that you need to force them on the rest of the world..... which is kind of my problem with Sam Harris because he seems to think the solution is to force a certain flavor of rationality, even though he's not that good at rationality, on the rest of the world
The misunderstanding of religion destroys culture - not religion
I had a dr. Name nawaz!! Honesty is ur best policy!!!! God bless anyone?!
Doug Stanhope on immigrants: "Crank, Crank?" "Si, Crank Crank"...if your job is threatened you're a loser
22:00 Not just about incompatibility. Some beliefs are inhumane wherever they come from. Culture and religion matter.
This muslim guy is lying about the conditions in Denmark. How sad -
This conference was in 2018.
Yes, @@deniseg-hill1730. I know. Its still a lie -
The guy isn’t even Muslim, did you even listen to him
Diverse, and sometimes incompatible, cultures might survive integration and lead to a greater end; but it must be handled with so much careful generosity and compassion (lead by willing, earnest, people on both sides) to even have a chance to succeed. We can come from different cultures, with competing virtues; but, when we make contact, or contact is thrust upon us, we have to deal with *reality*, and the fragility of communities.
Generosity is voluntary but immigration just like taxation is compulsory.
I don't know if i've heard more non sequitur fallacies on a debate stage before.
Name one.
Thank you.
Agreed. Name one. I'd love to hear it.@@mourlyvold64
Cricket……cricket……
What a peculiar title. How does something that creates a foundation for culture destroy it?
Not all cultures are the same. Religion A that is foreign to culture B can absolutely affect it in a negative way.
@@three_owl_night Then it should be 'Certain alien religions destroy culture'.
@@lostintranslation1957 agree, and it probably should be even more precise than that.
It's the foundation of all of the worst aspects of a culture. It's the virus that causes the diseases of the culture.
As always Harris tells us globalism is the future…. Along with his otherworldly opinions. Can’t he just go try to reform the rest of the world?
Immigration is good when you let people that can give something to your country and fit in with your way of life , otherwise it is just destructive . I was South African wanting to get away from apartheid , was refused 5o years ago visa to work in UK . even though I had a great grandfather born in Newcastle brought up with English vallues , me they would not take and look who you have now , people who have no desire to fit in with the English way of life . Maybe being Jewish did not help .
Is this on Spotify?
34:00 I have to strongly disagree with Sam here. I know we were wrong to invade Afghanistan. We made things worse. For everyone.
One last Point Sam spends like 20 minutes arguing against Douglas but actually what he's talking about is what Bret said. He's not even paying attention
Interesting chat, I'm pretty aware that there are no women on the panel though and would like to see how women's perspectives would affect/alter the conversation - maybe for the next one?
You should be watching "The View."
when is this from?
How old is this? Are Sam and Brett cool with each other again?
7:02 This is how they gentrify areas in The US. They make apartments that have minimum income requirements, usually a multiple of the annual rent, specifically to keep out minorities. They use SES as a euphemism for race
„We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe-without swords, without guns, without conquest-will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.“ - In 2006, Muammar Gaddafi
I understand the fear from the crazy muslims but it seems to me that the vast majority of these 50 million are there because they too want to get away from the crazy muslims!
that’s the only way it will happen not enough sheep
They just replicate by having babies... no birth control ... unlimited pregnancies.
I don't think so.
May he rest i peace what great leader
The government of, say, the United States is not the owner of America. The owners of America are the various people who work at various kinds of occupations NOT in concert with each other, but to serve their own personal ends.
If I, a farmer, has a job for a prospective immigrant and I can guarantee that this individual will not become a ward of the state, but my personal responsibility (for a period of time, perhaps five years) then the morality of the right of freedom of movement can overcome any pragmatic issues confronting immigration.
Because I happen to be born in a certain geographical area does not give me a superior right to live there over those who would like to.
We must make legal immigration correspond with the human right of free egress.
In GB, everything and everyone are property of the King.
@@williambranch4283In UK we have the right to give up our citizenship so cannot be considered property.
In Africa you see zebras that do what zebras do in groups and you see springboks in groups and do what springboks do. You never see groups of all the different animal species feeding and travelling in same group.
"leave your values at the door"
The problem is people try to look at issues in isolation but there is no such thing in real life.
Someone cannot be for open borders but on the other hand being for, or at least not against, international military interventions. If US (with support of the west) would have not intervene in Middle East the world would be a much better place and there would be millions of refugees less.
Or being a feminist and for open borders... in Europe the number of Female Genital Mutilation is dramatically increasing, the same with child and forced marriages.
The image of 1-2 kids being mutilated every week by some random guy with a knife in some living room, so it will become a good wife when she turns 12 and can be married to a 40 year old guy who will take his 'right' as husband by force... maybe happening 20 minutes away from my apartment, is absolutely disgusting.