Debunking the Myth: Muslim Politics in the West with Dr Asim Qureshi
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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Come election time, Western Muslim communities have been asked to support mainstream political parties in exchange for representation. Some commentators have praised the multiculturalism of countries like the UK, where the party system has integrated many Muslims into the political system. Here in London, we have Sadiq Khan, arguably the highest-ranking elected Muslim official in the Western world. In the United States, there’s a similar push for Muslims to support the Democrats and even the Republicans, and some have broken the glass ceiling and represent the parties at local and national levels.
But does Muslim representation really work? On Gaza we have seen the limits of the ‘Muslim voice’. What are the structural compromises the system will always want to solicit from Muslim representatives? Does the system only support particular types of candidates, and indeed does the system change the people who set out to change the system?
To explore this topic, I have with me in the studio today Dr Asim Qureishi. Dr Asim Qureshi is the research director at CAGE, a UK-based advocacy organisation working to empower communities impacted by the War on Terror. He has a background in International Law and is the author of the books "Rules of the Game" and "A Virtue of Disobedience".
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The Thinking Muslim Podcast Episode 122
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:18 Are you angry?
3:42 Muslim representatives
9:00 The Liberal betrayal
12:10 Muslim’s in UK
16:41 Structural limits
22:42 Sidiq Khan
22:20 Representation?
28:57 Lobbying power
33:00 A palatable message?
38:09 Young people
42:15 Alternative ?
48:58 The MCB
53:53 The threat from the Right
1:01:01 US context and social issues
1:05:38 Disenfranchised
1:11:35 Organising
1:15:10 Internal splits
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Thinking Muslim should be trending in every platform. Mashallah learned a lot from it.
This podcast is so important. The progress of the Muslim community strategically without compromise. I love you both for Allah's sake
Thinking Muslim makes me a thinking Muslim
Why are you in West if u hate it.. Lol
@@anshuraj4277why are you in this thread , go and pollute somewhere else
@@anshuraj4277Because the West ruined most of the countries in the world…lol
@@anshuraj4277because Muslims actually have some principles and higher moral aspirations that go beyond time, era or land they live in unlike “most other people” who just go with the flow of the dominant strand or assimilate themselves to fit in or really dont have any principles or lofty moral aspirations they live want to live by 🙂…plus it is imbedded in Quranic principles as muslims where ever you live (muslims as a people) your responsibility is to become witnesses towards other people of what is right and what is wrong or you as a people have to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil in a society with your tongues and if you have authority than with authority as well 🙂
@@mharism yeah... That's why Muslim countries are so weak that none of 'em can defeat Israel
That's why Israel is middle East superpower
That's why hardly anyone wins Noble prize from Muslim world.. Checkout jewish people who won
Those Muslim who do like Abdul Salam are kicked out of Pakistan coz he is Ahmedi
Your bigotry, Islamism and refusal to integrate in Secular civilised society is why u r hated
Go live under Taliban or something
Why pollute civilised world
Beautiful response. I was shouting no, no and Asim brilliantly said, Is it representation if it's devoid of ethics? MashAllah brother. ❤💯
Proud South Londoner here! May Allah bless you my brother's. Amazing stuff Alhumdulilah. We look forward to these podcasts
Dr jalal and Dr Qureishi is like a meeting between intellectual giant’s. I remember being so infatuated with the last conversation between you two in 2019 that I had to listen to it twice. May allah preserve you both
Pound shop intellectuals.
Qureshi admits his activism just gives him an inner glow. That no tangiable material benefits will come from cutting yourself off from the political system in the country you choose to live in.
Yet another brilliant podcast. This is so timeline and listening to it felt put words to how I think, so many of us are feeling in the wake of the ceasefire vote. Utter betrayal by careerist Muslim MPs. But should we have expected anything more? We need to get organised to represent our ethics to wider society, not remain within the confines of the established structures.
Our young generation is our future but we need the prayers of our elders as well. Masjid committees should hold activities for youth to educate them about different Islamic subjects and keep them physically active.
May Allah guide thousands to Islam and save them from the eternal damnation of the hereafter, for every single martyr from our brothers and sisters and children of Palestine, and for every tear shed by each one of them.
HasbunAllahu wa nimal wakeel
We will never accept the injustice of Shria and rule by a Muslim Caliphate.
@@kimobrien. we're not talking about a caliphate and please read about Islam by authentic sources and read the Qur'an, you will be surprised. And there in no force or compulsion in religion dear. No one is allowed to force someone to become a Muslim. And I thank Allah for Islam which has a solution for everything for all people and all times. The west pretended to have morality and now the veil is down, they are supporting Genocide against the wishes of their own people.
This kimobrien is extremely ignorant their views of muslims is influenced by mainstream popular myths of muslims as terrorist , want to apply sharia law onto non muslims, jihadis violent etc! So boring and very naive ! Educate yourself probably doesn’t even have any muslim friends yet thinks they can define them!
@@kimobrien. But you will accept the gross injustice of communism and atheist brutality.
@@justlooking4202 Communist movement split in 1928 with Trotsky leading the left opposition to Stalin. The Militant is our newspaper proudly printed since 1928. If the Communist Party in Germany had not being doing what Stalin told them but instead followed the revolutionary path laid out by Lenin and Trotsky than Hitler would not have come to power. The Jews would not have been slaughtered and not need a homeland of their own.
Love the work you're doing. JazakumAllahu khair.
This is an incredibly important and insightful interview.
Thank you so much for this very much needed discourse of Islam in the west, excellent deconstruction to make it cohesive and digestible for the unaware and unsuspecting Muslim.
Jazakum Allah kheir
Great discussion! Despite all the challenges, we, as Muslims have to persevere, keep up with education and being sincerely true to our religion so we can at all levels, depict and reflect what Islam is really about. We have to be confident that our religion is complete and that we can make a difference in all areas including politics without compromising our deen. It takes courage, discipline, intelligence and sincerity but it's possible.
We will never accept the injustice of sharia law and the waging of Islamic Jihad.
so kim what experiences if the sharia law and jihad have you experienced ? i’m intrigued by you? 😂😂😂😂
@@mamunaaltaf2849 It's the kind of experience I NEVER want to have like the cutting of hands for thiefs. I seen people who had their hands cut off after Sharia law "justice", I've seen the secretly taken pictures of the beheadings by the religious police in Saudi Arabia. You can not deny that the punishment for an apostate under sharia is death. Muslims do not respect the separation of Church and state where they are the state power. This will never be accepted by the working class in the United States and should be rejected by workers of all nations and religions. Because those who can't fight for the freedom of others will never be able to defend their own. The women of Iran are already protesting against the arbitrary rules about the wearing of the hijab by the religious police. We know that under Sharia the Prophet commands he Muslims to wage Jihad a holy war against the unbelievers. We don't want Hamas style genocidal wars. We don't want to hear excuses about how billionaires living in Qatar are really victims of the "Nokba."
@The Thinking Muslim I deeply enjoyed this episode of your podcast more than anyone else and as a white non-Muslim I agree with almost everything said by Dr Qureishi and I wonder why it sounds so new and has never been thought before amongst “British” Muslims.
HopefulIy I am not alone in this, but if there was a Muslim party I would definitely consider voting it as I would think it more trustworthy and ethical than any of the current secular ones.
My only criticism to your channel/podcast is that it is a bit too “for Sunni Muslim only” and I feel that way you are already cutting out a large part of your Umma (shias as well as ibadis) and westerners who may share most of your views but feel left out of the conversation. Whereas this channel could effectively function as a catalyst to attract more open minded Westerners towards real Islam and real “inside” Muslim views. But anyway thanks for your work and I will keep watching it!
Well shia
I recommend you to learn the of iranian history, what happened before and after the Safavid empire arise
Great discussion. Politics is a game that was never designed for us to win.
Exactly, the vote of the State registered person is effectively an unlimited power of attorney handed to the Ministers, yet the irony is that the state registered person has had his sovereignty and inherent rights severed at Birth, so the claim that the Political class have a valid mandate is a fraud. It is in fact a quasi form of regency, that they can only continue with, if the people remain ignorant as to their inherent power, which is never taken away, but only held in trust, or rather in breach of that trust .... we all got here the same way, No King is raised up, they just push everyone else down.
Salam brother I just wanted to make a small correction about the verses mentioned about Qaroon they’re not in Surat Ghafir they’re actually in Surat al Qasas (28:76-82). Barak Allahu feekom. I’ve benefited a lot from this.
AsalamoAlaikum.
Interesting chat, Ma Sha Allah. Dr. Asim Qureshi is a brave person who has no doubt made great strides in effectively challenging the establishment, and there is a lot to learn from his approach that has been pivotal in helping those who the rest of the Ummah had abandoned.
With regards to the role of Muslims within the political landscape, let's have more ideas and exchange of views.
Also, Br. Jamal, if I may say so, I fear at times that the channel is speaking to people who all seem terribly agreeable.
There rarely seems to be much tension in the interviews.
Would you agree that it is worthwhile inviting others who may not necessarily agree with the perspectives presented on the channel.
People who the channel may not necessarily see eye-to-eye with?
There need to be guests who are ready to disagree and challenge the 'comfortable discourse' that seems to be prevalent on the channel at times.
If part of the vision of this channel is to help Muslims to 'think', then we need to come out of our comfort zone.
No one or particular body of people has all the ideas.
When our ideas are challenged, there is an opportunity to look at new threads and possibilities and to potentially re-evaluate our ideas.
Just my two cents on the matter...
By the way, I have enjoyed a lot of the ideas presented on the channel. Very educational and informative indeed.
O armies of the Arab
O armies of the muslims
Break away from your chains
And rise! O muslim soldier rise!
For the sake of Allah, rise!
Help the oppressed of Gaza
Come together now
And with your faith and courage
Free Gaza! Free Palestine!
And may Allah be with you
O armies of the Arab
O armies of the muslims
Break away from your chains
And rise, o muslim soldier rise!
Get real.'
Muslim armies would lose again and lose more land to Israel.
Masha Allah!! Brilliant and overdue topic for Muslims who are frustrated with political and western systems who don’t represent our values and ethics!! May Allah preserve you and grant you to highest Janah…
I lost faith in the Labour Party after they stabbed Corbyn in the back.
That's just power politics. It's a dirty game.
corbyn is marxist, marxism is an enemy of islam. marxists will use minorities to gain power, but once they have it your in trouble.
Labour will likely form the next govt. so rejoin them!
@@billyjesus5442Marxism as an ideology isn't always against Islam. It is a matter of shifting interests. Today, Marxists support Palestine. Yesterday, the Soviets armed Egypt, Syria, and the other enemies of Zionism.
Assalam Alaykum
Thanks for this discussion.
The reality is that until we build real political power in the West, our issues will never have any weight among politicians.
Therefore, the discussion should be around this point instead of debating Mawlid & other trivial issues as Dr Asim rightly put it.
Thanks’ Jazakum Allah Khayran
W aalaikom salam wrhmatu Allah w baraaktu br iPad...
Just...hearing from begining...
As to ur commnet...they wint let us...ur right...trivilty should b sided to side...
What do u think can b done...woth that said..all these online talks...do u thi k it could b part of what u said!??...either done deliberately or foolishly as at end of al kahf..we thi k we doung good.. yet r in their way..unknowingly...or we lack...actaul deen even it's rituals..etc....
Pz do say ur things...also...fo u thi k shura..has a role...as to masjid role..!??..amd do u k ow any talks a out that aspect of the deen forgotton as it is!??
Salamalaikom w barek Allah feek..and May Allah reward u...ameen as u Intiated salam revival...as also hadith says..bets r those who say it 1st..so love amd salam to u..br iyad amd to ir family too..ameen
Allah Hafiz
Politics systems that allowed "lobbiest" play a big roles in these modern world while the politicians needs "the money for its next campaign"..
I think this is too harsh. Muslim MPs operate in a tough environment where politicking is essential otherwise you won't last long enough to to do much good.
Part of the issue is also Muslims supporting Muslim MPs sufficiently to enable them to take difficult stances. If as Dr Qureshi says, Muslims are not mobilised, then how can MPs trust in this Muslim support should they take non-party positions.
I think Gaza is a different case. It is so blatant that any MPs let alone Muslim ones should be on the right side of this and even accept losing their political position because this is an issue for your very soul.
Politicking equals careerists - someone whose actions are self centered. And if Muslim MPs want to garner community support - they have to be brave and principled and if need be resign from their positions. He is against tokenism and being used as a tool. It is not harsh. He is asking for Muslims to step up and have a proper Islamic ethic and self confidence.
Amazing discussion! JazakAllah khair.
True. We Muslims cannot copy the Zionists or other liars for our ends. For us means are more important than ends. Only Allah can deliver the ends we wish for but He needs us to follow the right and honest means. If the available structures do not allow honest politics, we better not create such structures or die trying.
Alhamdullilah so eye opening, I was struggling with this issue, which political party or not vote at all. Alhamdullilah he made it so clear!!
He is being anything but clear. 😂
There us limited amount you c as n do if you turn your back on the ruling system in the country you choose to live in and raise a family.
He’s so on point, especially at 34 mins. Some internalize the two tiers and don’t want to make others uncomfortable even as we’re treated inferiorly.
By the way brilliant discussion very intellectually stimulating conversation!
Jazakallah khairan for organising such amazing discussions. I can't decide which one's my favourite! But I have to say this particular episode has been truly inspiring for me personally. A huge thanks to Dr. Asim Qureshi for the amazing work he's doing!
Assalamu alaykom wa rahma'tullah wa barakatuh, I think that Dr Asim Qureishi is absolutely right, we need to remember the ahquirah, we need to remember that this life is a test, and we need to remember that our being given bright lights in exchange for the blood of our brothers and sisters is a cheap, very cheap exchange. We need to be msulims, we need to look back tot he past, the amazing heroes who - through them, gave us islam. We need to stop, pause, think, and reset. Alhamdulillah, this is possibly the best thing that I heard, reminding us of our Prophet Muhammad [saw] of the importance of the blood of the muslims. The rights Allah has given us, is not something that we should exchange for anything.
Really enjoyed this talk!
Salaams! AH FINALLY someone verbalized what lies in my heart! We do not compromise our ethics, nor throw our brothers and sisters under the bus, for the sake of representation in either direction. When you come to the table, you come unabashedly Muslim and empowered by the fact that you were given izzah by Al Muizz Himself!
Certainly, the imposition of a secular look or appearance in the public sphere, when not considerate of the integrated and holistic approach in Islamic tradition, can lead to tensions and misunderstandings. This may inadvertently marginalize Islamic practices, resulting in cultural exclusion. The claim of secularism to neutrality can be challenged in such contexts. Let's explore this step by step with examples:
**1. Imposition of Secular Appearance:**
- **Uniform Standards:** Policies or societal expectations promoting a secular look may establish uniform standards that may not align with Islamic practices, such as modest dress codes or religious attire.
- **Example:** Restrictions on wearing religious symbols or clothing in certain professions or public spaces can be perceived as an imposition of secular norms.
**2. Holistic Islamic Lifestyle:**
- **Integrated Practices:** Islam encourages an integrated approach to life, where religious practices are seamlessly woven into various aspects, including attire, daily routines, and social interactions.
- **Example:** The practice of wearing Islamic attire, like the hijab, is not just a religious expression but also an integral part of identity, modesty, and adherence to Islamic values.
**3. Tensions and Misunderstandings:**
- **Cultural Clash:** The imposition of secular appearance standards may result in tensions as it clashes with the cultural and religious values of Islamic communities.
- **Example:** Policies discouraging visible religious symbols may lead to misunderstandings about the significance of these symbols within Islamic traditions.
**4. Marginalization of Islamic Practices:**
- **Unintended Exclusion:** When secular norms marginalize Islamic practices, it can create feelings of exclusion among Muslim communities.
- **Example:** Bans or restrictions on religious attire in certain public spaces may make Muslim individuals feel excluded or stigmatized.
**5. Controversial Policies:**
- **Limiting Religious Expression:** Policies that limit the public expression of religious identity can be controversial, especially when they impact deeply held beliefs and practices.
- **Example:** Laws prohibiting certain forms of religious attire or symbols may face resistance and criticism for infringing on the right to religious expression.
**6. Claim of Neutrality:**
- **Secular Neutrality:** Secularism often claims to be neutral by separating religious influence from public spaces, aiming to create an inclusive and neutral environment for all.
- **Challenge:** The challenge arises when the implementation of secular norms is perceived as favoring a particular worldview and restricting the expression of religious identities.
**7. Need for Cultural Sensitivity:**
- **Nuanced Understanding:** Secular policies need to be implemented with a nuanced understanding of diverse cultural and religious practices to avoid unintended consequences.
- **Example:** Accommodating religious attire in workplaces or public spaces demonstrates cultural sensitivity and respect for diverse expressions of identity.
**8. Inclusive Dialogue:**
- **Community Engagement:** Inclusive dialogue between policymakers and religious communities can help develop policies that respect diverse cultural and religious practices.
- **Example:** Open discussions with Muslim communities can lead to policies that acknowledge and accommodate their religious practices without compromising on the principles of a secular state.
**9. Legal Protections for Religious Freedom:**
- **Legal Safeguards:** Ensuring legal protections for religious freedom, even within a secular framework, helps balance the need for public order with the right of individuals to express their religious beliefs.
- **Example:** Legal provisions that safeguard religious freedom ensure that individuals are not unfairly penalized for adhering to their religious practices in public spaces.
In summary, tensions and misunderstandings can arise when secular norms are imposed without consideration for the integrated and holistic approach of Islamic traditions. Secularism's claim to neutrality may be challenged when its implementation results in the exclusion of certain religious practices, emphasizing the importance of cultural sensitivity and inclusive dialogue in policymaking.
An extraordinary, nuanced discussion. Much needed. This is highly educational
The believer will not be stung from the same hole twice.
Hopefully the recent events will teach British Muslims some important lessons in the reality of politics and increase us in maturity.
We need to gain Maturity in our ppl and institutions in order to understand our real tangiable priorities eg education, public services and the economy. Not grandstanding on foreign policy issues based on religion and emotion. There is no way the govt will make concessions to Muslims otherwise it would be blackmailed by Hindus, Sikhs etc
What a thoughful and principled guest. Great discussion.
Excellent discussion
Jazakum Allah khair for your efforts.
Jazakumallahu khayran.
Jazaa kAllahu khairah fid daarain
Brilliant as always!
Very good podcast..i always like to listen carefully..
❤ love it to see Asim again
I love this podcast. Keep up the great work brother. Peace and blessing onto you.
Very good discussion
A Big Thank's from Germany.
Keep going on with the good Work!
جزاک اللہ خیرا
Excellent captivating talk, thank you.
Excellent
Absolutely brilliant!
Excellent discussion. ما شاء الله
May Allah preserve you both. Jazakum Allah khair for another excellent show.
This was a brilliant session. Keep up the good work. It’s time for a muslim awakening! Let’s get together!
A very good one ما شاء الله تبارك الله! This seriously requires more views!
This entire conversation applies to Canada too. The similarities are uncanny.
Canada is even worse
Very good podcast and soo important for Muslims in today’s day and age
Great thank you!
One of the best podcast, thank you
Masha Allah, excellent thought provoking and educational content as usual. Keep up the great work brothers ❤
Fascinating discussion
This content should reach many more people. Thank you for this content
Muslims should stop voting Labour and tories...we should hold the upper hand
1:11:27 ❤❤❤ We want change now! Totally agree!
10:05 Thanks for this Asim - it's very frustrating when Muslims including Jalal lump centrists and Liberals in as "the left" it's very misleading and ultimately gives a distorted view of what's actually happening.
Brilliant episode 🇵🇸
This was fascinating
Would be great to have the last six minutes as a seperate video, to share with others
Excellent discussion. It’s relevant not juz in the West, but also minority Muslim communities globally.
a wonderful session MashAllah brothers
Thank you 🙏
I love the point at @30:57 which is better than everything else
May Allah Accept your works, and make it a means of acceptance and Guidance for the Ummah!
"This religion has already been preserved. This religion does not rise and fall on the basis of our actions. We rise and fall on the basis of our own actions."
For thought Dr.qureshi 📿💭
May Allah preserve you and your guest Amin. Please may I suggest you introduce yourself from the beginning of every podcast because some people don't know your name. Thanks
Thanks - I thought about this but came to the conclusion its not really that important. Better to focus on the expertise and background of the guest - MJ
You don't get to change the system, the system CHANGES YOU.
If you want to just vent your feelings and dont really care about success you are guaranteed not to succeed. Its a very honest approach but then do not expect success and dont complain if you achieve nothing material. Its refreshingly honest that this guy has accepted that his approach guarantees failure within the uk political system.
This type of mentality is a Cul de sac for minorities living in the West. There is no future to it. No positive outcomes. You have to work within the system and not shouty angry politics from outside.
Why do we expect as 4% of the population that Britain will accommodate Muslims and change its foreign policy in the Middle East!?!?
@@fuadahmed5501The best way is for Muslims to concentrate in a few areas so that we can get more MPs for the same number of people. If all Muslims went to the same city or same areas in the city, it would be easy.
But that plan requires there to be enough money, housing, and jobs for the right people.
The only issue I face is that point of “ how to package something, so that people will accept it”. I personally face this A Lot. Nonetheless how can a person avoid this, without being ignored
In the context presented, where monasticism and self-denial are described as innovations not prescribed by God, and Islam advocates for a balanced and moderate life, it's essential to consider the implications for the concepts of monastic life, secular life, and how they align with Islamic principles.
**1. Absence of Monastic Life in Islam:**
- In Islam, the absence of monasticism suggests that the lifestyle of extreme self-denial and withdrawal from worldly affairs is not prescribed. The Islamic tradition encourages engagement with the world while maintaining ethical and spiritual values.
- **Example:** Muslims are encouraged to fulfill their worldly responsibilities, such as work, family, and community involvement, while adhering to moral and ethical guidelines.
**2. Moderation and Balance:**
- Islam promotes a balanced and moderate way of life. While spiritual devotion is encouraged, it should not lead to extreme ascetic practices that neglect worldly responsibilities.
- **Example:** Muslims are encouraged to engage in acts of worship, charity, and self-discipline, but within the framework of a well-rounded life that includes family, work, and community engagement.
**3. No Dichotomy Between Monastic and Secular Life:**
- In the absence of monasticism, there may be a different conceptualization of secular life within the Islamic framework. The dichotomy between monastic and secular life, as seen in some other traditions, may not be applicable in Islam.
- **Example:** A Muslim leading a life of ethical engagement with society, pursuing knowledge, and contributing to the well-being of the community is not considered secular in the same sense as a separation from religious devotion.
**4. Secular Life Within Islamic Ethics:**
- The Islamic perspective on a balanced life allows for active engagement in worldly affairs without divorcing it from religious principles. The pursuit of knowledge, ethical business practices, and community service are integral components of Islamic life.
- **Example:** A Muslim professional working in a non-religious field can view their career as a form of worship by conducting business ethically, providing for their family, and contributing to the welfare of society.
**5. Category Mistake in Islamic Context:**
- In the context of Islam, the concept of secularism may be viewed differently. The Western dichotomy between religious and secular may not align with the Islamic worldview, where life is seen as an integrated whole guided by ethical and spiritual principles.
- **Example:** Instead of secularism as a separation from religious influence, Islam may emphasize the harmonious integration of religious values into all aspects of life.
**6. Emphasis on Ethical Behavior:**
- The emphasis in Islam is often on ethical behavior, justice, and compassion in all aspects of life. This differs from the separation between sacred and secular often seen in other philosophical frameworks.
- **Example:** Muslims are encouraged to uphold justice, honesty, and compassion whether engaging in religious rituals, conducting business, or participating in civic life.
In summary, the absence of monasticism in Islam and the emphasis on a balanced, moderate life shape a different perspective on secularism within the Islamic framework. The integration of ethical principles into all aspects of life challenges a strict dichotomy between religious and secular pursuits as seen in some other cultural and religious traditions.
This is wonderful. At some point, please bring Muhammad Hijab, especially after these Piers Morgan interactions.
Nah, I don't like him. He supports Andrew Tate, doesn't he?
Very relevant to the Western Muslim dilemma today. Thank you and jazakallah.
What dilemma?
If you don’t like it here, go back to your parents country or learn to get along with people here and become a productive citizen.
Don’t stay in the West and just bitch and whine about some theoretical ‘alternative system’. Even this guy admits he doesn’t make any tangiable change with his ‘activism’.
Great work. Barak Allahu fikum❤
So the alternate is to Organize and be active in politics to push/lobby all the establishment political parties. More grass roots activity with an Islamic ethical foundation. I guess.
Allah bless you. Allah protect you from all sides
We will never accept Sharia law or islamic jihad.
i really think you want to be a muslim .Please go ahead you will be welcomed kim!!!
"If our representation is devoid of our ethics then we are still being misrepresented." This is an important truth for our country. A truth i have not realised as a white uk woman until hearing this conversation here.
Multi cultural status for a country is not real until all cultures are honestly represented. I am realising this for the first time listening here to these two brilliant thinkers of their place in our country and what in actual fact that is represented as at the national level.
Only when these truths are heard widely will essential change occur. But how do you make your wise assertions heard? The shift in willingness of the nations citizens to hear you can only occur if your conversation here is mainstreamed.
I have listened to many muslims speak now in conversation with one another and with combative mainstream media interviewers and every muslim i have heard makes sense. Pure and simple. All i hear is common sense, peaceful intentions and an enviable faith in what human beings can make possible.
Keep talking, i will share as wide as i can. You need to be heard. The time has to be now with all that is occurring in Gaza and the West Bank. I hope youre wisdom will soon be mainstream.
I grew up in castro Valley
❤
Why do i have a feeling that the British government will convert to Islam and declaring it the official emblem
No, Hinduism.
One of the most salient things to note about how Islam spread before, was that people from among the local populace or tribe were always appointed to govern when the Muslims gained power, even if they were not Muslim as was the case in Andalus. Today Muslims think they can give victory to Islam by importing masses of their own ethnic group into another land and creating expanding enclaves of those ethnic groups, it does not work like that and it has never worked like that, people are not stupid and they will not forgive you if they are oppressed by your presence among them ...
In certain segments egyptions are truly non Islamic
Secularism, with its origins in Christian history and the separation of church and state, can pose challenges when projected into Islamic traditions. The absence of a dichotomy between monastic and secular life in Islam contributes to a distinct worldview. Here's a step-by-step exploration with examples:
**1. Christian Origins of Secularism:**
- **Historical Development:** Secularism, as a concept, has historical ties to the Christian experience, particularly the separation of religious and political authority in Western societies.
- **Example:** The Enlightenment era saw a shift towards secular values, emphasizing reason, science, and the separation of church and state in the West.
**2. Monasticism and Secularism Connection:**
- **Monastic Influence:** The Christian monastic tradition, characterized by withdrawal from the world and a focus on spiritual devotion, contributed to the development of the secular idea. The dichotomy between monastic and secular life became a part of Western thought.
- **Example:** Monastic communities, with their emphasis on self-denial and spiritual contemplation, influenced societal perceptions of the secular as a realm separate from religious devotion.
**3. Islamic Emphasis on Holistic Life:**
- **Integrated Worldview:** Islam does not have a historical tradition of monasticism. Instead, Islam emphasizes a holistic integration of religious principles into all aspects of life, blurring the distinction between sacred and secular.
- **Example:** In Islamic teachings, daily activities, from business transactions to family life, are considered opportunities for spiritual reflection and adherence to ethical principles.
**4. The Absence of a Dichotomy:**
- **No Monastic-Secular Divide:** Islamic traditions do not conceptualize life in terms of a strict dichotomy between monastic and secular. The religious and the mundane are seen as interconnected parts of a comprehensive way of life.
- **Example:** Muslim scholars historically engaged in various fields, from science to philosophy, without a perceived conflict between their religious commitments and intellectual pursuits.
**5. Ethical Framework Within All Aspects of Life:**
- **Integrated Ethics:** Islamic teachings provide a comprehensive ethical framework that guides behavior in personal, social, and professional spheres. There isn't a need for a distinct secular realm to uphold ethical principles.
- **Example:** Islamic finance operates within a framework guided by ethical principles, eliminating the need for a separate secular financial system to address ethical concerns.
**6. Challenges in Translation of Secular Concepts:**
- **Cultural Dissonance:** When secular concepts rooted in Christian history are transposed onto Islamic contexts, cultural dissonance may arise, leading to misunderstandings and potential conflicts.
- **Example:** The application of Western secular notions, such as the neutrality of public spaces, may clash with Islamic traditions that integrate religious symbols and practices into public life.
**7. Cultural and Legal Implications:**
- **Legal Systems:** Secular legal systems, developed in Western societies with Christian influences, may not align seamlessly with Islamic legal principles. The conceptualization of rights, freedoms, and justice can differ.
- **Example:** Issues related to family law, inheritance, or religious expression may highlight differences in the legal approaches rooted in secularism and Islamic jurisprudence.
In summary, the unique aspects of Islam, including its emphasis on an integrated life and the absence of monastic traditions, make the projection of secularism challenging within Islamic traditions. Cultural, legal, and philosophical distinctions highlight the need for nuanced discussions when considering the application of secular concepts in Islamic contexts.
I think the point about sanctity of muslim lives is such an important point. However, though I am not a scholar, I found searching the Hadith mentioned at the end about the Kabbah being less than the inviolability of a muslim to be Weak ( Daaif). Though it doesn’t take away from the point, it’s important to point out the reference.
I left this podcast confused. I didn't recognise the alternatives to political engagement brought forth.
Muslims avoid both establishment parties of the right and left... And independently lobby both without any compromises that are characteristic of the left or right, in a global ummah conscious fashion.
This could result in either a third wholly Muslim focused party, or one of the two major establishment parties breaking down to Muslim no compromises demands.
Or it could result in Muslims having less of a say in the political system. As it gives either established parties more of an incentive to avoid dealing about Muslim issues. The Left for example, doesn't need to push back against anti-terror laws as much. The Right can feel bolstered to bring about harsher Islamophobic initiatives because there's no worthwhile pushback from the Left.
This is, of course assumes the ststus quo of a duality in the political system. I would like to hear thoughts from others.
He suggests several options.
1- if engaged in political representation - don't be a tool or a careerist. Be principled, ethical and brave. Resign and protest if need be.
2- Mobilize through other than the ballot box. Through demonstrations, boycotts, social media campaigns etc
3- Avoid concentrating or centralizing Muslim 'representation' since that results in organizations beholden to the status quo and keen to preserve benefits from the establishment.
Finally - it is important to realize that participation in an unethical system where Muslims are marginalized as 2nd class will not result in much change. The game is rigged as it were and Muslims should not overstate the import of the 'Muslim vote'. Gaza is a perfect encapsulation of that.
Politics is ethics writ large. Modernity sundered politics from ethics like how it sundered facts from values, sundered law from morality, sundered scientific explanation from purpose and theoretical explanation from practical enquiry on how to live.
I'm immersed into this highly enlightening, intellectually liberating, and is in congruent in what i have been thinking that Labour Party had become. A fascist Party that is in league with Conservative right-wing. Just watch Aljazeera Labour Files.
Yes a feel angry rageful but a must be a good citizen and do my bits 🇵🇸
Then be loyal to country u live in
@@anshuraj4277What if the country is bombing your family back home?
Asims UNITE!!!
Why we don't creat a new political party?
Translation: Normalization with a genocidal apartheid entity is an absolutely abhorent disaster.
Whilst the concerns are entirley legitimate you won't have to worry/suffer for too long... secular materialism has already destroyed white western culture; just look at the falling birthrates beyond replacment percentages.
And the road forward is workers control of Industry not the nilistice ideas of Muslim Jhadies. Free Gaza from Hamas!!!