Gaza: The Roots of Western Hypocrisy with Imam Tom Facchine
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
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When we consider the stance of the West over Israel’s actions these past weeks, many point out the blatant hypocrisy in applying their standards. We are constantly told that human rights are inviolable, that freedom of speech is sacrosanct, and that people have the right to self-determination. Westerners sermonise about how Muslims should embrace democratic norms. They pontificate about the rules-based liberal world order, where rules are applied fairly and equally. Yet, in these past weeks, anyone with a conscience would note that these calls ring hollow. We all can see this hypocrisy. But are the West negligent of their ideals? Are they acting in contrary to their liberal values. It is said if only they were brought to the right path once again.
Imam Tom Facchine argues the West is acting perfectly in line with their worldviews. Imam Tom Facchine finished his BA in Political Science and was granted the opportunity to study at the Islamic University of Madinah from 2015-2020, where he obtained his BA from the Faculty of Shariah. Imam Tom is the Research Director of Islam and Society at the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research. He is also a resident scholar and imam of Utica Masjid (New York state).
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The Thinking Muslim Podcast Episode 116
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:30 US Media
12:00 But liberalism?
17:29 Good liberals?
21:30 International law
26:22 Freedom to protest
29:50 Ukraine
33:28 Democracy & dictators
37:35 Israel’s importance to west
42:00 The system
45:39 Crusader hatred?
47:51 Islamic activism
54:46 Deflated and defeated?
Wallahi, Imam Tom is a gem. His points are always spot on and well articulated.
i was watching a pro palestinian rally in tampa and the women with the bullhorn said 'no peace on stolen land'. i about fell out of my chair laughing. i guess she has never heard of the seminole indians.
@@user-on8jx3qr8w what are you talking about
0:33 0:35 0:36 0:36 0:37 0:38
I live in USA. Have done from 8 years. I was born and raised in Britain for 25+ years. Tom is 100% right about religiosity is more in USA vs Europe. I would also say 95% of American couldn't care less about Israel
❤
Far more "liberal Muslims" in the US than in the UK though.
yeah, most american's can't find israel on a map. same with ukraine. 95% have no idea who balfour was or even the ottomans. anyway, i've noticed on all the muslim channels who are going over the history they somehow drop the arab uprising of 1914. why do you think that is?
the israeli cause has always been part & parcel of the American ways - from Hollywood tv & movies to pro-sports NFL, NBA - with majority ownership control held by the community slanted toward the pro israeli lobby.
@@user-on8jx3qr8w don't be disingenuous make your point. It doesn't make you look good when you ask these kinds of loaded questions you just seem dishonest
A great discussion again. Keep on going The Thinking Muslim ❤
Imam Tom is a gem. May Allah increase him. Aameen
don't you find it strange that syria and yemen have been in civil wars for years but there seems to be no out cries over those lives lost?
Imam Tom as always informative and surgical in his analysis. May Allah reward you for your efforts.
Thank you Imam Tom for demystifying the narratives of global politics. A brilliant analysis of the source of power which is evident that politics is certainly the source of power .
“Colonialism is like the zombie apocalypse…”
Imam Tom is an absolute OG! Intelligent, concise and razor sharp in his analysis.
so is tom going to give land back to the iroquois?
@@user-on8jx3qr8w as a matter of fact, yes I am.
I genuinely loved that comment!
@@redman6790 he’s played Left4dead, COD Zombies, watched Kingdom, the walking dead and every zombie film before he converted, rrrrrrrrrespect, my man Imam Tom! 😆
"Democracy is usually a front, and there is a difference between slogan and reality" - Tom Facchine
Islamic terrorism isn't a front but real.
the least we can do is to like and share this to help improve the algorithm inshaallah. ❤
Excellent discourse.
Jazakallahu khair
MashaAllah.. I am grateful to have been involved in a good discussion you have put forward.
you r a legend Imam Tom, May Allah preserve you
Alhumduillah, exactly right.
They also use fear, and Allah says fear Him only! Thank you! Wonderful information
Allahuma barik Imam Tom, Masha’Allah very much enjoyed and benefited from this episode, Jazāk Allāhu khairan, Barak’Allahu Feekum!!
Masha Allah. I follow brother Tom from the state, he is forced to reckon with. We need knowledgeable Muslims in every field to convey our narrative.
😢f f
If you want to see how the media plays a role in this read "Israel-Palestine on Record: How the New York Times Misreports Conflict in the Middle East"
Another book that highlights this phenomenon in the media is "Discourse analysis and media attitudes : the representation of Islam in the British press" by Baker, Paul.
You can also read "CULTURAL DIVERSITY AND THE U.S. MEDIA" by Yahya R. Kamalipour and Theresa Carilli, Editors
2 other good books about the topic are:
The General's Son: Journey of an Israeli in Palestine by Miko Peled and
Holy Lands: Reviving Pluralism in the Middle East by Nicolas Pelham
I am not a Muslim and have no desire to be. I agree with the hypocrisy because my heart bleeds seeing the vengeance on innocent people. Surely Hamas anticipated this. Saddened as I may I so proud of Palestinian people for realising that if they move to the Sinai they won't be able to return
Same. I am not Muslim either but my heart aches seeing this cruelty.
@@lisao6928 Amen 💖
I invite you to the religion of peace (Islam). You are welcome whenever you feel that Islam is the truth. I pray for you to our creator, mine and yours.
Regardless what religion we follow or no religion but we stand for humanity. We simply couldn't favor the atrocities against humanity.
Islam is faith in God of Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed. If you are not part of that team. Whatever team you part of doesn't have the grantee admission to paradise. Anyone who separates those Phaphets Satan to him for a ride and will not make to paradise.
Imam Tom is so sharp and eloquent with his words. Huge respect and what a pleasure listening to you two.
Assalamu Alaikum.
Thanks a lot for this programme ❤❤
Bring Dr. Talal Abu Ghazaleh, a Palestinian businessman who lived through the Palestinian Nakba. He is the most knowledgeable and knowledgeable about the Palestinian issue. He is a positive person in light of the difficult issue we are going through.
Sounds like he got rich while the everyone else got the Nakba.
@@kimobrien. The Nakba are the Palestinians who were forcibly displaced from Palestine, and Talal Abu Ghazaleh is one of them.
He is a self-made man who started from scratch in Kuwait in a small business until he became a millionaire.
You might benefit from it
@@user-kj8yl6sn2zYa right he became a millionaire without using all the contacts he made by playing a the part of a poor victim of "the Nakba" for all that it was worth. Everyone knows the Kuwaiti Sheikdom is rich because the Imperialist Bosses who run the world oil businees pay tribute to the hide behind local reactionary partners. It's a country where thousands of books are banned.
Brilliant analysis :) I’m glad I listened. Thank you, Imam Tom/Brothers. May Allah keep enlightening and blessing you and the Ummah and all people of Conscience.
(Unfortunately, we have too many weak Muslims who’d rather turn a blind eye, as their comfortable fellow communities, -those with internalized colonialism fused with misogyny, as if they think that people who are made to suffer are to be blamed for their predicament).
Sura 14:27, “Allah will establish in Strength those who believe, with the Word that stands firm, in this world and in the Hereafter, but Allah will leave, to stray, those who do wrong: Allah does what He wills.”
Sura Hud, 11:85, “And O my People! Give Just measure and weight, nor withhold from the people the things that are their due: do not commit Evil in the land with intent to do mischief.”
Sura 16:97, “Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him We will give a New Life, a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of actions.//When you read the Qur’an, seek Allah’s protection from Satan the Rejected One.
Sura 7:51, “Such as took their religion to be mere amusement and play, and were deceived by the life of the world.-that Day We shall forget them as they forgot the meeting of this day of theirs, and as they were wont to reject Our Signs.”
And another favorite line in Qur’an,
Sura The Women, 4:135, “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be against rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow Not the lusts of your hearts, lest you swerve, and if you distort Justice or decline to do Justice. Verily Allah is well acquainted with all that you do.”🌴
Jazzak Allah Khair Muhammad Jalal for bringing Imam Facchine. Mash Allah a very intellectual discussion. We appreciate it very much.
Masallah! Allahu Akbar! Jazakallahu Khairan to you Brothers for ventilating the facts that the whole world's population should learn and understand. ❤❤❤
Just wow i am stunned how much of knowledge intellect and how insightful the imam is just brilliant. Edit: just a suggestion since imam is so gifted to get his point across if he could make a video on why should Palestinians need to be supported, would be a blessing for the Palestinians cause.
Subhanallah may Allah always guide us always Thank you very much Brother Tom
God bless you brother Tom❤
Salam, thank you for mentioning Irelands 🇮🇪 flight for years , remember Ireland was a Christian country and the English wanted to wipe us out, so its not always Christian against the rest of us.
I may of heard Br. Tom incorrectly while he was mentioning Uk, just to make the point Ireland is not part of Uk
!!! ... How refreshing to listen to some intellectual elaborations and meaningful discourse.
jzk pls remember to subscribe
Imam Tom takes his time to think, articulate and speak.
He shows emotions and logic in his statements.
I respect you, Brother.
What a meaningful discussion. Loved it
a great discussion, an eye opener MashAllah
May Allah preserve, bless and protect our scholars.
This was so iman lifting. Last question from the brother, answered by Imam Tom, just made it. subhanAllah.
Thank you for this brother Muhammad.
Really needed to hear this
Jazaa kAllahu khairah fid daarain
Literally my favourite educational show
55:50
Anas ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Even if the Resurrection were established upon one of you while he has in his hand a sapling, let him plant it.”
Source: Musnad Aḥmad 12902
Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Arna’ut
Good discussion
Hitting on the point May Allah bless you both insha’allah ❤🙏🏾🙏🏾
Salaam bro and sis my heart bleeds for the Palestinian but then i remembered Allah is the best of planners just always remember that❤❤
Amazing discussion. I'm better off - in terms of learning and thought-reinforcement - for having listened to it. This channel is a qualitative Godsend!
Thanks 🙏🏾
As a none believer in any man-made religion i find it difficult to accept the argument that secularism is wrong and that only Islam is the answer. I am one that believes in the distruction of the racial and economic pyramid that the Northern European has created for himself. However, i also dont want to live in a state dominated by Sharia law or any other religios laws from any other denomination or religion. Most of the people in America that promote a free Palestine are seculars and our argument for a free Palestine come from the belief that Palestinians have a right to be free. However, we would also have an issue with any relgious state that seeks to control thought via laws. I think that Palestinians should be very aware that the support they receive from countries in the West come from secularist. I would urge the Muslim world not to equate that support as some kind of sign from Allah. Secularist dont belive in any man made religion, we seek to understand life through science and science is our religion.
Jazakallahukhayr 👍👍
I really appreciate that discussion. I don't share the whole analysis of brother Tom on liberalism. I believe liberalism is religious principles in disguise. In my opinion, the issue is simply the hypocrisy of power: secular or religious, any power can lead to arrogance and self deceit, as our religion is warning us . The themes of legitimization of violence and racialization were particulary stimulating . May God reward our two brothers for this useful conversation in that time of crisis
Informed man 🤲
You have an amazing talent with words, Mr. Facchine. Thank you.
I'm 60+ but for years have stopped following Western mainstream media on foreign affairs
24:04 - 26:00 : Imam Tom makes an excellent point here. It's like these people have made a religion out of their belief (in this scenario, Liberalism).
It really is true, if you don't believe in a God, you're going to end up creating a God from your whims and desires.
Theodor Herzl, the founder of Modern Zionist Movement (der Judenstaat 1896), was a secular jude om search of security and meaning . He believed the European culture was superior to other human cultures.
In reality liberalism is nothing but liberation of money = Allow US Big Businesses to use their printed money and buy the world = colonization.
Or you might create a religion out of your whims and desires like Muhammad and con everyone into believing your a prophet.
جزاك الله خيرا
Very on point
Despite differing opinions on Imran Khan, it's important to acknowledge his consistent advocacy within the Organization of Islamic Cooperation for Palestine and the progress of Muslim nations. A significant majority of Pakistan's population continues to support him, appreciating his candid portrayal of Afghanistan's historical and political background. Imran Khan's support for Muslims extends to advocating for the rights of Palestinians, providing humanitarian aid to Muslim-majority countries in crisis, promoting inter-Muslim cooperation, supporting the people of Kashmir, enhancing education, and emphasizing Islamic values in governance and society. I hope he will return to power and truly represent Pakistan.
All of this is so interesting, but wow that last 10 minutes is gold for us as Muslims today.
Allah ❤
Just finished it, thank you, Imam Tom should link up with Public Enemy and record something! ✊🏾
Jazakallahu khairyn for the quotes Imaam Tom bless you and the channel.
May Allah make it a war we will win for His sake in shaa Allah
May Allah (S.W.T.) bless and protect our Brother Imam Tom for him to continuously educate the world's population and learn to discover the truth and facts particularly on the Palestinian issues of oppression and humiliation they suffered for almost 80 years under the APARTHEID REGIME OF ISRAELI ZIONIST STATE! 😮😮😮
Assalamualaikum Brother Jamal,
Humbly building upon what Imam Tom Facchine says about divide and conquer tactic often used by colonial powers, I sincerely believe inviting Mr Hussein Askary to the show would benefit the Ummah greatly. I believe it is time to challenge the western legacy mainstream media narrative on all issues, just like us Muslims naturally do so when it comes to the Palestinian issues. I sincerely believe it's time for us Muslims to re-examine and re-evaluate the "China anti-Muslim" narrative with deep nuance. I believe such discussion would benefit the Ummah greatly. Wallahualam.
I'm building a platform for muslims to voice their narrative without getting censored or banned. Need help. Any developers willing to collaborate? Will also need cyber security experts as I'm sure there'll be attempts to bring something like that down.
would a self-hosted Mastodon site be enough?
@@dEsTiNy3HaCkEr didn't even know what that was until I read your comment and looked it up. I like the aspect that it's decentralized and quick to get up and running. The downside is the complexity of getting a layman onboarded (I could be wrong as it maybe very easy). Most people are familiar with platforms like Twitter and Threads so I feel that might make transition easier. In an ideal world, I'd like to launch a dApp but don't have the skills to pull that off.
The issue with today's Islamic scholars is that they are after money, fame, and power. The prominent scholars are quiet on the issues that are in dire need of their succour.
Thank you for all your words. Made me think...and thus write a lot of comments...sorry
May ALLAH give him more knowledge, his words of wisdom are making so many other pieces to puzzle together, i wonder how is their sleeps at night......
❤
🌹🌹🌹❤️❤️❤️
Jannah/ Paradise
Come my child
Don't be so sad
Close your eyes
And ponder a while
Let's go to a place
Where forever is joy
And love is real
Where the sun never sets
And darkness doesn't fall
In the gardens of bliss
Where saffron is grass
Where the rivers flow
Of milk and honey
Water and wine
Awaiting the beckoning
By the staff in your hand
Come my child
Don't be so sad
Close your eyes
And ponder a while
Let's go to a place
Where forever is joy
And love is real
Where are mountains of musk
With valleys of rubies and pearls
And trees without thorns
That bend down to serve
Where flowers and fruit
Are piled upon pile
And where the leaves rustle
To the fragrant breeze
Melodiously enchanting, the dwellers within
Come my child
Don't be so sad
Close your eyes
And ponder a while
Let's go to a place
Where forever is joy
And love is real
Where the gates are eight
For the actions on earth
Where palaces are made
Of silver and gold
And others of a single pearl
And many decorated
With diamonds and emeralds
And garnets and rubies
Where the thrones are raised
And couches adorned
Where everyone smiles
And never grows old
Come my child
Don't be so sad
Close your eyes
And ponder a while
Let's go to a place
Where forever is joy
And love is real
Where there is no argument or pain
Nor calamity sorrow or death
Where no one cries or sheds a tear
Where there are beautiful companions
With lustrous eyes
And pearl like boys that never grow
Where the angels bring gifts, and greetings of salaam
In the home of peace, rest and reward
And when you will gaze, upon the LORD most high
And when you will gaze, upon the LORD most high
Only then will you understand
And only then will you understand
You are god sent..
Alhamdulillah........
I have hope with heavy heart.....
Please help against the evildoers. Save Gazza.
Jazakum Allahu Khairan for the very informative podcasts.
Just a quick point if possible for the brothers who do the graphics - if possible to please edit the map as it includes the occupied Syrian Golan Heights. It's important to recognize that this land belongs to Syria and that we maintain the true "look" of Palestine.
Oh wonderful young Muslim
Hold firmly to your family circle
And keep in touch with the Ulamah
For they are there to help you
Busy yourself in learning skills
Helping people
And creating a bond with Allah
For the idle mind
Soon becomes the devil's workshop
Protect your personality, your mindset
Your Soul and especially, the gift of Imaan
Avoid everything and everyone confusing you
And distancing you, from your Lord
Or your family
Remember...
That you are very special
For you are the flag bearers of Islam
The brave sailors of tomorrow
And the Hope for the Ummah
You cannot simply go with the flow, beloved
Your ship must be strong
For the winds are cruel
And the waters are rough
Your sails must be set, to the right direction
So you reach the destination safely
And take everyone Home
Be mindful of Allah
Who is closer to you, than your jugular vein
And loves you seventy times more
Than your mother
May Allah bless you with knowledge and wisdom
The Ilm and the Hilm from his divine treasures
And protect you always
Wonderful young Muslim
Aameen
I strongly advise hosting the journalist Salman Al-Ansari, a Saudi journalist, whose Twitter account is available, to talk about the peace opportunities offered by the Arabs to coexist side by side with Israel and what prevents this from being achieved to stop the Palestinian bleeding.
I watched Sami Hamdi's interview. His speech was more emotional than realistic in light of the political, security and economic circumstances that the Arabs are going through.
@@awarenessofday1105 I agree with you. Commercial cooperation with the Israeli entity is not in the interest of the Palestinian cause, but rather a reason for increasing Israel’s power in the region.
The Arab normalization project with Israel from the United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Morocco, and Bahrain is bad because it did not take into account the rights of the Palestinians in their land, but they obtained deals from America, such as lifting sanctions on Sudan and recognizing that Western Sahara is part of the state of Morocco, or economic gains for the United Arab Emirates, and I do not know what the deal is. America with Bahrain.
America used political blackmail and provided economic and security gains to those four countries, but what they got was much less than what the Israeli entity got.
I believe that the popular role of Muslims is very important. If Jewish-owned companies, institutions, and banks were boycotted all over the world, it would help weaken the economic power of the Jews and the State of Israel.
Do not forget that Iran and Turkey’s negative role in the Arab world in stabbing the Arabs in the back and interfering in creating and manufacturing civil wars is what weakens the Arabs in the face of the Israeli occupation.
I hope that all Islamic countries sever political, security, military and economic relations with the Israeli entity
Some Islamic countries, such as Turkey, are like the lung through which the Israelis breathe because they provide them with food, building materials, military training in Turkish airspace, etc.
43:36 - Would love to do some reading/have podcasts on the details of organising in a western context
I love what he said about tribalism around 22:15. The Hadith in Ibn Majah 3949 mentioned this. “No, rather it is tribalism that he supports his people in wrongdoing”
Thank you soo much for this great podcast!!!
May allah swt protect our brothers and sisters in FALASTIIN
Ameen
O Ummah of broken hearts!
Keep calm!
For the scorching fire of Hell
Will not die out
Like the fires from the piercing bullets
The treacherous grenades
And the murderous bombs, of the cruel oppressors
And glad tidings for the Martyrs
Who are surely 'Alive'
Indeed the everlasting blaze of Hell
Awaits in anticipation
Those who oppress Humanity
And where Death is no more
There is no Escape
O Ummah of broken hearts!
Keep calm!
For the gardens of Eden
Where the rivers flow
And the gentle breeze, cause the trees to rustle
In the sweetest melody
Under the shade of the glorious Throne
Will abide forever
Those who are patient, grateful and compassionate
And love and help each other
For the sake of Allah
O Ummah of broken hearts!
Keep calm!
For there will be no pain, or loss or sorrow in Paradise
But peace and joy and everlasting love
And most precious of all
The pleasure of Ar-Rahman, our merciful Lord
O Allah!
Please have mercy on thy creation
Guide all mankind to the path to Paradise
And save Humanity from the path to Hell
For the sake of they most beloved Prophet ﷺ
Surely if the tyrants knew the Truth
They would not be oppressors
Indeed it's not the eyes that do not see
But the hearts that are blind
O Ummah of broken hearts
Keep calm!
😢Ameen ❤
Palestine
May Allah forgive us i😢 it feels like we have failed the Palestinians
😢I feel the same very crippled, helpless, feel guilty to eat or sleep. I wake up middle of the night making duaa. I will help but how.
@@Nusaybah459 I feel the same waking up at knight making dua may Allah accept it from us I have been crying one-way may Allah forgive the Ummah 😭
About Free Speech:
Well pointed.
#JudeusLivresporPalestinosLivres
I love this show because it introduced great muslim thinkers, and stay away from government funded shiekh who been betryal muslim ummah and implement fear in muslim heart
8:15 facts
Base on the paradigm of philosophy and conditioning of the West, how does the Global South and Muslims counter the Western argument/propaganda that "Hamas massacred 1400 Jews on the 7th"...? I believe as Muslims we are hitting a wall, and maybe its our mistake for not understanding the colonial logic/mindset. That the thy are victims first, consequence to actions last as their morality perhaps is symbolic and materially guided. Our reasonings are often weaponized. Appreciate your thoughts on how we approach this that would make them actually stop and say "wait a minute..." bringing reality to their doorsteps would be coined basbarism or worst, terrorism. Thanks.
that is a religiously symbolic argument. they are taking from the bible
Imam Tom you are a wise man Mashallah
May Allah fulfil our life with knowledge and blessings inshallah
It just crossed my mind - are the present Palestinian Muslims of original Arabic roots or are they Muslims assimilated with the original Jews? Did the Ottoman Caliphate ensure majority pure Arabic Muslims to safeguard the Al Aqsa?
What sort of values should society have if not liberalism or democracy
Good question. I suggest politely you look into Islam :)
Thank you for your reply, I will keep reading information, also thank you for your podcast and point of view it all helps to have a deeper understanding of both sides of this current conflict.
Thanks Kerrie
so was there angelic intervention in the battle of badr?
Thank you to both brothers , you increased me in faith “ Muslims do good with reminder s” ? Quran
Where are the timestamps❗️
Hare Krishna everyone
Jalal plzz use de word killed not died.....btw great effort !!
Don't forget this people... America lost it's sole..
And the hypocrisy continues…
That is why people should boycott corporate media like Iam doing cancel your TV subscription and unplug from wall. I feel much free not listening to lies and propaganda.
anything more than 35 mts is unnecessary verbiose and reduces good viewership
why are you talking
I've never understood the term judeo-christian. It seems as if it separates the Muslim world, which embraces traditional judeo and Christian values more than these groups with each other. It otherises Muslims through implication since this term is always used in the context of judeo Christian as being more 'civilised'. It's a propogandistic meaningless term in terms of actual reality.
In case of Alcahol “ The sin is grater than it benefits “ Quran
Trying to understand Jewish jehad
Facts facts facts. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
just look of what happened in Russia and Ukraine, do you think humanitarian is applied in that case? NO !! because as what Russia said " it is protection of their own territory" to protect your country and having war on the terrorist.. then the humanitarian law is not applied because the war has its own law . .. yes to protect the civilians.. but still have more casualties happen.. especially if the terrorist was in the middle of crowded people..
Text of Dum Diversas of 1452/3 from pope Nicholas (translated): "we grant to you full and free power, through the Apostolic authority by this edict, to invade, conquer, fight, subjugate the Saracens and pagans, and other infidels and other enemies of Christ, and wherever established their Kingdoms, Duchies, Royal Palaces, Principalities and other dominions, lands, places, estates, camps and any other possessions, mobile and immobile goods found in all these places and held in whatever name, and held and possessed by the same Saracens, Pagans, infidels, and the enemies of Christ, also realms, duchies, royal palaces, principalities and other dominions, lands, places, estates, camps, possessions of the king or prince or of the kings or princes, and to lead their persons in perpetual servitude..."
Root cause of the violence?
Not about land, never was, but for Muslims- not all of them, but a significant number believe that they must eliminate Jews for religious reasons.
Check out the Muslim Brotherhood teachings, and Hamas, they outwardly say that.
Source: trust me bro
The LG.....T are equal to all. But Palestinians are not? Is a big question to US.
5:41
38:41 🤬