Nice, i think STR/ARC scares people away because on the surface it looks limited but like the video you can do a ton of stuff. With 55 str a heavy infusion/blood flame blade for example.
On my main build, I love to run the Heavy Great Stars with Bloodflame Blade. It is so good. I was one of those players that really did not pay much attention to STR/ARC. This was a mistake. After researching the Arcane Stat and this hybrid build, I found out that it is extremely strong. I like it a lot and it definitely has a lot of potential for great build ideas. Thank you for your comment.
That build doesn’t really need a lot of arcane though. Blood flame blade doesn’t scale with arcane, and the fire damage only scales off of faith. Great for a strength build that dabbles in faith/arcane magic though
If you fully commit to the even(ish) split between arcane and strength, you still have a ton of good options. Not only do you have these, but the gargoyle greatsword keeps high strength scaling (B) when bleed infused. I'm not sure about for occult, but having a greatsword with 125 bleed with a base AR north of 600 (level 125, +25 45/40) is really nice. Great Stars is another high AR bleed infusion option, though I'm sure it's good as an occult infusuon as well. Plus you get access to 2 of the best weapons in the game with close to optimized stats for both of them: Mohgwyn Ritual Spear and Marais Executioner Sword. Marais requires specific talismans to reach its full potential, but the MRS is a beast right out of the gate. It even works great against Radagon despite his bleed immunity, due to the additional fire damage added onto the bleed build up, which Radagon is weak to
@@refinedorc2870 it doesn't scale with faith, but with incant scaling on your seal, and you can use the dragon comunion seal which scales with s with arcane to get a more than competent buff while barely meeting faith requirements
Very informative video. A quick addendum on the warped axe specifically: You want to run this on the blood infusion if possible (i.e. enemies are not bleed immune), even if you get decently more AR on the occult infusion. This is because the warped axe is sort of in-between regular axes and great axes as a weapon. It has excellent str scaling (gets S on heavy) and is the heaviest axe, but on status infusions (bleed/cold/poison), it gets the buildup of great axes. This means that this relatively small weapon with a blood infusion at 45 arcane will get as much bleed buildup as the iron greatsword, or greatmace. But since it is an axe and not a greataxe, it gets the faster variations of ashes of war like spinning slash or barbaric roar, making this one of, if not the fastest weapon for bleed/poison/cold in the game that you don't need to powerstance. This also means you can make use of all that strength and run a greatshield to use guard counters if you need.
This is incredible information. I was not aware of this detail. At 45 Arcane, we can probably get about 130 Bleed application per hit on the Warped Axe. That is a lot for a weapon with the speed of axes. I appreciate your bringing this to my attention. It has given me an idea for a build. Thank you for your comment and contribution.
@@FrownyGaming I actually discovered it after doing experiments from the strength/arcane build I used in pvp that you inspired! Depending on opponent poise, barbaric roar can true combo on the axe. I am currently running it along with a blood infused fingerprint stone shield, since after buffing up with barbaric roar, I can use both the altered R2s and the shield bash/shield crash skill. It's fairly effective against aggressive opponents in duels and invasions and you can easily chain your defenses into offenses because the madness and bleed buildup forces people to run away, and you can always softswap to the dragon communion seal for ranged options or if you want to have fun with bestial sling/catch flame true combos. Madness procs also gives you time to chain the R2 true combo, which will often straight up deal over 1700 damage with the bleed proc.
The reason that the Prelate's Crozier is "the exception that proves the rule" is because the Dex scaling of the base weapon is so low (only a value of 10 within its param files) that when its scaling is reduced further by the Occult affinity, it's just removed entirely rather than sticking around to a miniscule degree like with other weapons; for reference, the Bastard Sword with a base scaling of D-tier for Dexterity has a value of 27, the Battle Hammer has a value of 14 for Dex scaling, which goes down to 5 with the Occult affinity.
I see! This makes sense. The Dexterity Scaling is so low that, when reduced by the Occult infusion, it fully disappears. This makes the weapon fall into the conditional parameters and it gets the special Scaling. I appreciate your contribution. Thank you for your comment.
i like when youtubers talk to their audience like an actual teacher. "I know you guys are smart players, so you must be thinking-" I was not thinking that. But i'll take the compliment and listen intently 😂
Correct! STR/ARC is a very versatile build type. It has Bleed, it has high physical AR options in this Quality Occult case, and then the Marais Blender is also an option. There is a lot to choose from. Thank you for your comment.
Just tried this out and wanted to thank you for the inspiration! I’ve been wanting to try Str/Arc for a while but I’ve never been a BONK main or a status main. This gives me a chance to use two things I haven’t before in one build!
Wow, I just found your channel after consuming so much Elden Ring Content the past two years. This might be the best Elden Ring content on all of RUclips. Can’t wait to see what you release once the DLC comes out!
Very interesting. I wonder what kind of AR numbers it can reach. This could be a cool build for two shields. One blocks, the other attacks. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It sounds really fun. I appreciate your comment.
STR/ARC 60/60 is phenomenal in the DLC as well, Occult Giant Crusher for Bleed immune enemies, Bleed Bloodfiend's Arm for Bonk Bleed, Blood Tax Bleed Swordlance for insane 3-5 pierce hit bleed procs, Beastman CS powerstance for jump bleed, Marais Executioner, you name it, and if all else fails, or you need weapon buffs, you still have effective 90 STR for heavy or other infused 2handed weapons. Very versatile build, slap on some Faith and/or Dex and you rock.
Back when I was exploring STR/FTH, I was shocked at its value. It is exactly as you said and this many options lead to a lot of power. Thank you for your comment.
I must admit, I miss having high arcane on my second playthrough because it provides much higher item drops. My dex/arc character was swimming with items. With strength, I would be tempted to increase faith to have some spell options, but I already did 25 faith on my dex/arc character and I could use most of the incantations effectively. I like the idea of a fire build though, and str/arc could do that since fire scales with strength and the dragon communion seal scales much better with arcane than the clawmark seal does with strength. Str/fth would have more incants, but the dragon incants feel like they are more in character with str/arc. Would make for an interesting demonknight build - str/arc, ungabunga occult weapon, fire, bleed.
Arcane is an incredible Stat. Probably the best Stat in the game. It does so much for our characters. The Discovery increase is just the cherry on top. I like your idea for the fire build. I think that it has good synergy and we can makes something that is really effective. Thank you for your comment.
That is still the case. There is nothing wrong with a Blood infused Greatsword. This is just an alternative for when you fight enemies that are immune to Bleed. Thank you for your comment.
STR/ARC is actually a great build for PVE AND PVP i one shot Melinia with mohgs staff and chilling mist on rotten battle hammers. I’ve done everything with strength tbh haha I love STRENGTH I use it in pvp aswell . One of my main weapons is the scythe with this build in pvp 60 STR/ 30ARC u don’t really need much u still proc statuses on enmities hella fast. Have fun experimenting. Also don’t watch other content make ur own and how u want to play
I am also a big fan of Strength in Elden Ring. I think that it has a lot of versatility and it can generate a lot of diverse playstyles. Overall, one of my favorite Stats in teh game alongside Faith. Thank you for your comment.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but stone club has this property on both occult AND bleed infusion. Bleed will actually give more strength scaling than heavy. It's wild.
While researching for this video, the Stone Club appeared to be a normal weapon in regards to the Occult infusion. Occult Stone Club +25: STR D/ DEX E/ ARC B Scaling Blood Stone Club +25: STR B/ ARC D Scaling Heavy Stone Club +25: STR A Scaling I do not see any evidence that points to what you are saying. Do you have some kind of source that I could go over? Thank you for your comment.
Edit: Tysm for these videos, honestly really good content in here I wish we could infuse with AoW the Serpent-Hunter, maybe it would be in this category and maybe spectral lance would be kind of useful
Interesting point. I think you are right. If we were allowed to infuse Serpent Hunter it would probably fall into this category. That would make it pretty strong. Thank you for your comment.
As a bonk connoisseur who has in my possession the two bonkest of bonk weapons, aka. the giant crusher and the prelates crozier, while recently went back to arcane for the bleediest, unga-est of bunga-est, I am happy to see this 'quality arcane' effect on said bonkest of bonks that I possess while also intrigued with how you armed your own bloody unga bunga build. Meanwhile, I shall make the necessary changes for myself.
So... the Quality Occult is something that I learned recently while researching the Arcane Stat. It is very useful to use against those enemies that are immune to bleed. My favorite weapon to use Quality Occult on is the Great Mace. As for my Bleed Unga Bunga build, look up "Dr. FunGuy" in the channel. It's my Strength/Arcane build. It can be improved a bit still, but I think that it should give you a good idea of what I like to do. Thank you for your comment.
@@dgnofdarkness Nah, not weird at all. I like colossal swords, colossal weapons, and a certain tombstone simply because they're stupidly big. Guts Greatsword because it's frickin' Guts Greatsword, giant crusher because it it's a bigger, fancier brick on a stick, and said tombstone because of The Wall. Not any efficiency reasoning here. As far as the brick hammer and great hammers in general goes, i am disappointed it got its poise damage nerfed.
@@FrownyGaming I actually forgot about your Funguy build. Rewatching the vid, the build itself overall didn't stray far from your template, and is already using the great mace. Nicely done. I simply converted my giant crusher and prelates crozier from heavy to occult. As my character is above 150, just seeing the damage numbers increase made me a little too happy.
@@AegisKHAOS the poise dmg nerf was insanely upsetting. Extra poise dmg was the reason to use great hammers over great axes, my other str build love. Now there isn't really a reason other than situational dmg type of strike, since great axes get about the same dmg, certain ones have extra hyperarmor on the charged R2 and a much higher r2 multiplier. Funn thing, with charged tear, axe talisman, fire affinity on a str build, RkR and flame tear you can easily hit 7k per two handed R2 with the executioner's great axe. Tested on the beastman at the beside the great bridge site of grace while farming the beastman's cleaver
Str/arc is a lot better in 1.09 with roar medallion working with dragon breath. I've been using a bleed braggarts roar greatsword and I'm tempted to switch to one of these better scaling weapons just to test the big bonk potential.
Agreed. STR/ARC has definitely received some additional support now with the new Roar Medallion. I actually like the archetype a lot and uploaded a build guide some time ago. There is a lot of synergy here now with the Dragon Communion Incantations. Thank you for your comment.
I've been doing this type of research for Str/Int with cold infused str weapons like the warped axe. Iron Great sword. Even the Greatsword seem to get this quality effect.
I want to point out that the Cold infusion works different from the Occult Infusion. See, the Cold infusion always gives the weapon INT Scaling (normally a C-Scaling), but it also keeps the weapons natural scaling mostly intact. For example, the Warped Axe has an STR A / INT C Scaling in Cold. And then, we have other quality weapons that have STR C / DEX C / INT C Scaling when infused down the Cold path. This is very common in Greatsword-Type weapons. The point of the Cold infusion is that it lowers a weapons physical capabilities in exchange for magic damage and scaling alongside the Frost status effect. The Occult infusion always shifts the weapon's scaling to full Arcane (normally a B-Scaling, sometimes A-Scaling), but completes destroys the weapon's natural physical scaling (E's and D's always). That is why these 7 weapons are so special. Not only do they avoid the drop of their natural physical scaling, but it is increased, as well as matched by the new Arcane scaling. Furthermore, all of the scaling goes to the same damage-type: physical. This turns it into a true Quality situation, where two different Stats feed the same damage at very high intervals. I hope this helps to understand the differences between the Cold Scaling situation and the Occult Scaling situation. Thank you for your comment.
As far as I have seen, I do not think so. This is a phenomena that only affects Strength weapons when infused down the Occult path. It really only applies to the few weapons that I mentioned, so it is a very exclusive characteristic. Thank you for your comment.
The key to this, not sure why this was skipped, but there's no reason to STOP leveling. You can make 80 STR and 80 ARC and this would eventually overcome straight STR by a lot. If you really want it you have to go into higher +
I think that this is a faulty comparison. Of course 80 STR / 80 ARC will be better than a Pure 80 STR. You are talking about making twice the skill point investment. A 80 STR build require about 70 levels. On the other hand, 80STR/80ARC requires more than 140 levels. When you make twice the investment, it is obvious that it will be more powerful. This comparison should be made with build that run 80STR/80FTH or something similar. The point of the video is to show the importance of this rare scaling on controlled builds. If we continue leveling up, we can hit max level and then nothing matters. On the other hand, if we limit ourselves to the basic level range of a single playthrough (around 150), we can actually see how useful this special scaling is. Thank you for your comment.
Quality Occult is a term I coined to make the concept easier to understand. Be that as it may, since you are being a bit pedantic, your comment is mixing Stats with Infusions and that is not really how the nomenclature works. As you have said, "Quality" (infusion) means STR + DEX (Stats) What I said, "Quality Occult" (infusion) means STR + ARC (Stats) What you said, "Quality Occult" (infusion) meaning STR + DEX + ARC (Stats) is not really appropriate because there are many ways to play Arcane that have nothing to do with the Occult infusion. For example, Quality Arcane is STR + DEX + ARC and this let's us make a good Bleed build or Poison build without ever touching Occult. If you confuse Occult with Arcane, the nomenclature will lead to confusion. Honestly, I do not think it is a big deal; but, again, since you are being pedantic, we should be as specific as possible. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming My guy it's not that complicated. Quality is the Str Dex scaling build and infusion option. Occult is the Arcane scaling build and infusion option. "Quality" = "Str + Dex" "Quality Occult" = "(Str + Dex) + Arcane" Adding a word to the existing term should add to the existing term, not change it. That would be us being as specific as possible with our words. I'm pedantic on purpose because it's better to coin terms that are consistent with consistent terms.
I present you two questions. You say "Quality Occult" means STR + DEX + ARC. That said, with this set-up, it would be better to run the Bleed or Poison infusion to obtain better physical AR scaling and keeping the ARC for status application scaling. We would not be actually using the Occult infusion with a triple split STR/DEX/ARC. Wouldn't it be better to call it "Quality Arcane", so it encompasses all the possibilities that come with an Arcane stat investment? Furthermore, I use the term "Quality Occult" in order to represent a small group of cases in which the Occult infusion functions in a similar way as the Quality infusion. The Quality infusion favors two stats (STR + DEX) and the "Quality Occult" that I coined also favors two stats (STR + ARC) in these particular cases. Does it not seem sensible that the similarities allow for a specific wording for a very specific case-scenario of the Occult infusion? I feel like this debate is senseless. Is it not logical?
@@FrownyGaming Taking a word that refers to two things, then adding another word to have the phrase to a different two things, is not logical, no. The logical option is that the initial word continues to refer to the initial two things, and the added word add what it would refer to by itself, for a new phrase that includes everything from the initial words. Taking the dex out of quality makes it not quality, which makes these weapons with the infusion not quality occult. Just strength occult. This is just a halfhearted effort to have lingo people in general will be quicker to understand, via consistency. I actually found my way to this video because I was trying to google my way to seeing if the dlc added any weapons I hadn't found yet that use all three stats with non-negligible scaling. I saw "quality occult" in your title and thought "oh cool this guy must have infused a weapon I didn't check all the infusions on and realized it actually had all three decently". Still happy to learn about these special strength arcane duo options though, I hadn't checked occult on any of these weapons, so kudos to you Mr. RUclipsr. 'Course I normally only use occult on weapons with innate status anyway.
My STR/ARC build is just tryna reach minimum requirements for the weapon and just scaling with faith and arcane on the great star weapon and uses bloodflame blade(if u like cheating fire's deadly sin) and just using spells to back off bosses and only going close reach if the boss if fast or can easily close the distance or i could just steamroll them wit prelate's charge bloodflame blade, i high recommend this build as it makes malenia trival and other bosses become more technical to fight.
Sounds like you like FTH/ARC. I am currently working on the optimization for a build like this. It is really strong. Faith and Arcane synergize very well and give the player all options possible. Very effective. Thank you for your comment.
Strength/arc with bleed infusion to me is better than occult, bleed infusion has less brute force but dual welding weapons at 116 bleed pretty much melts everything
Agreed. That said, the point of the video is to highlight a fringe occurrence that gives the STR/ARC archetype an additional option against enemies that do not bleed. Quality Occult is not supposed to substitute Bleed. It is supposed to complement it. Thank you for your comment.
question; is the 55 str assuming two handing to reach 55? or is that 55 before two handing? would reaching 55 with the 1.5x str multiplier from two handing to reach 55 get to the same softcap?
well with that build u can only use 2/3 arcane weapons(moghs spear,2gargoyle twinblade which requires ng+, great stars)... im running 60 arcane and 40 dex/18str. my problem is iwant the best hitting hammer for that build because of enemies being immune to blood, which is the curved club or the great mace the more u put into str. but curved club has more range. as u have shown if u just want to hit with hammers ure better of with strength.
You are not wrong, but I really think that you are missing the point. While it is clear that you can hit harder with a Pure Strength build, the point is that, with this set-up, you can use really good Bleed weapons - like, for example, Blood Iron Greatsword - but still have access to really good, pure physical damage options through this special Quality Occult scaling. Furthermore, we have access to some support incantations. It is all about having options. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming it wouldve been very interesting and helpful that u show ure blood infused weapons as well as the ash of war on them. maybe in ure next video?! if u alrdy did maybe link in discription. ill check out some other stuff of yours for sure :)
Like Frowny already mentioned, the point of this is everything else you can do beside the regular arcane or strength build. The fact that you can wield all these “strength” weapons while still having access to stuff like Dragon spells is insanely fun, while still competing with a full strength build. You can also put an insane amount of bleed on weapons like Guts Greatsword. Sure you will lose some raw damage but you get insanely high bleed like 160. This will proc bleed in like two hits. Put a stomp uppercut on that and it becomes very deadly. Insanely fun in pvp as well
Frankly, anyone who asked "wouldn't it be better to run 80 str heavy be better?" probably doesn't understand what a two-stat build actually is. I'd hazard a guess they were comparing 80 str heavy to this special infusion with less strength and adding arcane with the missing points. 40 and 40, 50 and 50, whatever they were imagining. Implying in turn that a regular quality build would have less str to get the dex, just the same. Which is wrong. When you make a build, you hit the cap in your damage stats. All of them. A quality build does not sacrifice strength to get dex. It has 80 strength and 80 dex. The points for the 2nd damage stat don't come from the first damage stat, they come from having less vigor/mind/endurance. Likewise building for this would mean 80 strength and 80 arcane, with that reduced vigor/mind/endurance, and should mean more damage then a strength only heavy build.
This is categorically incorrect. YOUR FIRST POINT It is foolish to compare a Pure STR build (at 80 STR) with an overleveled hybrid, for example, STR/ARC (at 80 STR and 80 ARC). The second build has about 70 additional points of investment. Of course the second one would be stronger. The point is to compare a controlled Pure STR build (at 80 STR) with a controlled STR/ARC build (at 56 STR / 45 ARC). In this sense, both builds sit at a similar level and we can see how they perform. After that we make a determination of what sacrifices we can make. Again, comparing two separate build structures as if they were equal is just going to give us incorrect data and conclusions. If I am going to sit down and "math up" a build, I have to make sure that I am not cheating myself with faulty testing methods. YOUR SECOND POINT Most hybrid builds do not reach the final Soft Cap for all of their main Stats. Normally, they go to the Second Soft Cap. Making a full commitment to maximize every damage stat will lead to build being RL 200-250. There is nothing wrong with this but, since most builds stay around RL125 for PvP and RL150 for PvE, this is impossible to do. A generalized hybrid build will mostly reach the Second Soft Cap for its main damage Stat, and then go to a stopping point with its secondary stat depending on what they are looking for. For example, STR/ARC - A good Stat distribution is 56 STR (second Soft Cap for damage) and 45 ARC (second Soft Cap for status effect application). Another example can be STR/FTH - We can run 56 STR (second Soft Cap for damage) and 25 FTH (requirement for Golden Vow) or maybe even 35 FTH for requirements of the second tier protective incantations. Hybrid build are not 80/80. That's just an overleveled build. At that point might as well put 60 in every stats and call it a day. MY POINT - DO NOT SACRIFICE VIGOR Never sacrifice Vigor for damage stats. Specially for the DLC. Vigor at 60 every single time. Thank you for your comment.
I was comparing builds at the same level, not different levels. All controlled builds. My "pure strength" builds powerstance two str weapons at the cap corresponding to the character level I've chosen to stop at [80, 60, 50, it depends how low I'm keeping the character]. (two handing with less str for extra str after the boost I'd do in a different build I wouldn't call pure strength. My "pure dex" builds use dex weapons at 80 [60, 50, depends on stopping level again] dex. And my quality builds, which are the same level as matching my Str and Dex builds, may or may not use the two hand boost, depending on what gear I want to use. But generally matching the stats for power stance option. The same premise would apply when I'm doing Str + Arcane or Dex + Arcane equivalents to a quality build. My two stat builds do not reduce a damage stat to get the other damage stat. They reduce vigor/mind/endurance, to get more damage stats at the same level as the one stat build. Strength of course has the added factor of whether I want to two hand one weapon or powerstance two; build the full strength stat or use the two handing boost for it. Though I generally prefer to keep my powerstance option open. I will go down a vigor cap over a damage stat cap any day. It's also worth noting that an Arcane build, whether pure or hybrid, and adding some (less) arcane just for status, are two different things. I wouldn't say I'm doing a dex-arcane build if I have some (less) arcane just because my dex weapon has bleed. I'd say I'm doing a dex build with bleed. I'd say I'm doing dex-arcane when I'm really building up both for my weapon's damage scaling. Matching the stats for weapons that scale good with both. I'll grant I've the odd mindset of wanting real "purist" status builds. The game doesn't actually let you have those, but I want to and sometimes try to get as close as the game lets you. [A "purist" status build wants to do all their damage with the status, not any raw damage. My hypothetical ideal bleed build weapon would deal 0 damage but proc bleed every hit. It's not a thing but in the back of my mind it's what I want when I saw I want a status build.] You do not need 60 vigor. 40 is fine. I tried and tested 60 vigor long enough to verify that oh so many enemies, various pvp encounters included, would kill me in the same number of hits either way. I haven't bothered with 60 vigor since, all my builds use 40, and never seem to die any faster than the 60 vigor users whether pvp or pve. At this point I basically can't imagine going up to 60 vigor if I'm not on a pve character I'll never stop leveling. I'll put those extra 20 points in vigor only if I can't make them useful toward my damage stats. But I happen to generally prefer the two stat options over the one stat options (quality over dex or str, melee caster hybrids over melee or casting only, the int+faith spells and weapons over the int/faith only ones), so that's not normally on the table, and when I do go single stat it's probably arcane with occult. Slight side track but I haven't heard anyone try to suggest 125 as the pvp level in Ages. Since roughly around launch. At launch a lot of people thought it would be around 120 because they assumed it would be the same as what they remembered from Souls, but the community quickly decided 120 was too low and 150 was the pvp level. For pve only, if one wanted to disregard pvp entirely, it was just "level as much as you feel like, it doesn't matter anyway, it's just pve and you can password for co op if you want". For my part I didn't (and still don't) really care what level was chosen for the meta pvp level, as long as the community made a decision and I therefor knew when to stop leveling a meta-pvp character. Which was and is, apparently, 150 standard. Though there's enough players to find plenty of pvp at whatever level you choose to stop at for a given character, at least up to 210, which is the highest character I've made so far (and which still has only 40 vigor).
I see. I misunderstood your initial comment. You prefer to take levels from survivability stats in favor of a higher DPS output. While I disagree with this philosophy of build-making, it is certainly valid and respectable. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify.
It's still to stat heavy for meta pvp, and as seen in the vid doesn't really do as much damage compared to pure str, pure dex or pure arcane until very high levels like 80/80 split. Like prince of death staff. Even at that point you are better off with a str/faith build at 80/80 split. Using something like great stats and bloodflame blade. You get the most from the buff but also the extra bleed. Which usually you will kill another player before you even proc the bleed.
You’re right, this is not really relevant for most PvP situations. It’s more useful for builds around RL150 PvE. There is some value that can be obtained from this specific scaling and the video aims to explain the phenomenon and show its potential uses. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming I agree, there is great value to this as well. As it can get that high scaling from strenght and arcane at those levels. It would still be fun to play around with and I'm thinking about trying it out. But I will probably run mainly pure stre most of the build until late game or ng+ then start investing into arcane more. I do this for all my hybrid builds honestly, as they always seem underwhelming for the majority of the playthrough compared to a pure build.
While this do have slightly lower dps rating, a competent player will definitely be a force to be reckoned with in a RL150 duel. Even more so for invasions with access to dragon and blood spells. You’re right that it falls off at lower levels though, but that’s true for all types of hybrid builds
But there is no reason to go to 80 str at the first place, especially when two-handed weapon. When two-handing, it will multiply your str stat by 1.5 and stat levels are capped at 99. Therefore, at 80 str and two-handing weapon, your str will still be capped at 99 regardless of the math. On the other hand, at 55 str and two-handing weapon, your str will be at 82.5, which isn't a huge difference with 99 str since they all pass the final soft cap. Ideally, you should compare 55str/45arc with 66str
This is categorically incorrect. You are thinking of the past Souls Games. In Elden Ring, Strength is the only Stat that can go beyond Level 99 through the Two-Handing system. At 80 STR, if you two hand your weapon, you will receive damage scaling as if you were at 120 STR. If I recall correctly, the new Strength cap for physical damage scaling is 150, all things considered. There is a video in the channel where I go through all the details of the Strength Stat. Look for "How Does Strength Work?" for more information. It is all explained there. Thank you for your comment.
The Great Stars is one of my favorite weapons in the game. Unfortunately, it does not have good synergy with the Quality Occult concept. Blood Great Stars has C/C/D STR/DEX/ARC scaling. Occult Great Stars only has notable scaling in Arcane at B. These video is about highlighting those weapons that have special Occult Scaling, combining high Strength and Arcane scaling. Usually B/B. Thank you for your comment.
on a new play thru I'm leaning into Int & Arc with 20/20 str/dex but I am soo bored to death w Bleed builds. no offense lol It's just such a well trodden path. so frost and poison for early mid then i wanna play w dearh blight and rot for mid game with the intention of using spells for late game as spell casting is one part of the game I've yet to learn well. Stat spread is pretty even now which gives access to huge amount of options then late game I get one Renala respec wher I'll funnel all those extra points into Int and Mind I have no sure idea if I'll be successful haha but this 4th play thru I want to challenge all the things I've yet to try
While I agree that Bleed builds have been overdone and overbuilt, the fact remains that Arcane is a very interesting Stat with many mechanics within it. The fact that there is specific scaling for certain weapons in the Occult path is very cool and I wish that there were more hidden interactions among weapons and stats. That said, if you are running an INT/ARC build, I have a build guide in the channel where I set up this kind of build. If you are interested, look up "Jester Timothy". If nothing else, this clown is a fun time. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming Thank u for the reply, Frowny. I have seen the Jester Timothy video! It helped me sketch out the basics of elevating my current build after reaching my Vig 40 soft cap and 20/20 quality Str/Dex - personal musts for surviving. I think u laff a bit at how my stats are currently spread. 40-12-16-20-20-23-15-15 It's giving me alot of utility as I've narrowed down my weapon/spell choices. I'm going to re watch that Jester Tim vid b4 my 1 reapec for this NG. But that also reminds me I had a question.. Why no Jerren outfit for the Jester? Too on the nose..? Wish you well friend. Look forward to yer future content!
For the Great Stars I definitely recommend the Occult path. Pure Physical damage and scaling bleed application make it a fantastic choice. Thank you for your comment.
Wish i had watched this before i killed elden beast with my (bleed) beastman great curved sword lmao. Mohg trident destroyed radagon but it only tickled elden beast
It's alright. On my first playthrough I used a weapon with Holy Damage against them and it turned out that they were super resistant to it. Now that you know, the next battle against them will be better. It's all part of the process. Thank you for your comment.
I mean i knew they are bleed immune ofc, just didn't have another pure phys weapon at hand at the time. Upgraded occult great Mace to +25 for the next ng cycle after watching this vid
The Occult infusion does not give Bleed Passive to the Giant Crusher. In order to do that, you need to infuse it down the Blood path. Occult in this case provides a really specific scaling that favors STR/ARC builds and it proves to be useful against enemies that are naturally resistant or immune to Bleed. Thank you for your comment.
Correct. Any elemental damage has a second Soft Cap at 50 of the corresponding Stat. Level 80 is the final Soft Cap, although it is questionable if it's worth investing to it. As for Quality, as you mentioned, it is 56. Although it might be interesting to take it to 60 to reach the second Soft Cap for status effect application. These are the things to consider. Thank you for your comment.
Nice, i think STR/ARC scares people away because on the surface it looks limited but like the video you can do a ton of stuff. With 55 str a heavy infusion/blood flame blade for example.
On my main build, I love to run the Heavy Great Stars with Bloodflame Blade. It is so good.
I was one of those players that really did not pay much attention to STR/ARC. This was a mistake. After researching the Arcane Stat and this hybrid build, I found out that it is extremely strong. I like it a lot and it definitely has a lot of potential for great build ideas. Thank you for your comment.
That build doesn’t really need a lot of arcane though. Blood flame blade doesn’t scale with arcane, and the fire damage only scales off of faith. Great for a strength build that dabbles in faith/arcane magic though
@@refinedorc2870 facts. Greases then !
If you fully commit to the even(ish) split between arcane and strength, you still have a ton of good options. Not only do you have these, but the gargoyle greatsword keeps high strength scaling (B) when bleed infused. I'm not sure about for occult, but having a greatsword with 125 bleed with a base AR north of 600 (level 125, +25 45/40) is really nice. Great Stars is another high AR bleed infusion option, though I'm sure it's good as an occult infusuon as well.
Plus you get access to 2 of the best weapons in the game with close to optimized stats for both of them: Mohgwyn Ritual Spear and Marais Executioner Sword. Marais requires specific talismans to reach its full potential, but the MRS is a beast right out of the gate. It even works great against Radagon despite his bleed immunity, due to the additional fire damage added onto the bleed build up, which Radagon is weak to
@@refinedorc2870 it doesn't scale with faith, but with incant scaling on your seal, and you can use the dragon comunion seal which scales with s with arcane to get a more than competent buff while barely meeting faith requirements
Very informative video. A quick addendum on the warped axe specifically: You want to run this on the blood infusion if possible (i.e. enemies are not bleed immune), even if you get decently more AR on the occult infusion. This is because the warped axe is sort of in-between regular axes and great axes as a weapon. It has excellent str scaling (gets S on heavy) and is the heaviest axe, but on status infusions (bleed/cold/poison), it gets the buildup of great axes. This means that this relatively small weapon with a blood infusion at 45 arcane will get as much bleed buildup as the iron greatsword, or greatmace. But since it is an axe and not a greataxe, it gets the faster variations of ashes of war like spinning slash or barbaric roar, making this one of, if not the fastest weapon for bleed/poison/cold in the game that you don't need to powerstance. This also means you can make use of all that strength and run a greatshield to use guard counters if you need.
This is incredible information. I was not aware of this detail. At 45 Arcane, we can probably get about 130 Bleed application per hit on the Warped Axe. That is a lot for a weapon with the speed of axes.
I appreciate your bringing this to my attention. It has given me an idea for a build. Thank you for your comment and contribution.
@@FrownyGaming I actually discovered it after doing experiments from the strength/arcane build I used in pvp that you inspired! Depending on opponent poise, barbaric roar can true combo on the axe. I am currently running it along with a blood infused fingerprint stone shield, since after buffing up with barbaric roar, I can use both the altered R2s and the shield bash/shield crash skill.
It's fairly effective against aggressive opponents in duels and invasions and you can easily chain your defenses into offenses because the madness and bleed buildup forces people to run away, and you can always softswap to the dragon communion seal for ranged options or if you want to have fun with bestial sling/catch flame true combos.
Madness procs also gives you time to chain the R2 true combo, which will often straight up deal over 1700 damage with the bleed proc.
The reason that the Prelate's Crozier is "the exception that proves the rule" is because the Dex scaling of the base weapon is so low (only a value of 10 within its param files) that when its scaling is reduced further by the Occult affinity, it's just removed entirely rather than sticking around to a miniscule degree like with other weapons; for reference, the Bastard Sword with a base scaling of D-tier for Dexterity has a value of 27, the Battle Hammer has a value of 14 for Dex scaling, which goes down to 5 with the Occult affinity.
I see! This makes sense. The Dexterity Scaling is so low that, when reduced by the Occult infusion, it fully disappears. This makes the weapon fall into the conditional parameters and it gets the special Scaling. I appreciate your contribution. Thank you for your comment.
This is big, ty
i like when youtubers talk to their audience like an actual teacher. "I know you guys are smart players, so you must be thinking-" I was not thinking that. But i'll take the compliment and listen intently 😂
Hahaha I am glad you enjoyed the video. Hopefully you found it useful. Thank you for your comment.
You also have the perfect stat spread for the Marais Executioner. This on top of bleed and bonk options is fantastic.
Correct! STR/ARC is a very versatile build type. It has Bleed, it has high physical AR options in this Quality Occult case, and then the Marais Blender is also an option. There is a lot to choose from. Thank you for your comment.
Just tried this out and wanted to thank you for the inspiration! I’ve been wanting to try Str/Arc for a while but I’ve never been a BONK main or a status main. This gives me a chance to use two things I haven’t before in one build!
I am happy to hear this! It is very good news. Thank you for your comment.
What does BONK mean
Wow, I just found your channel after consuming so much Elden Ring Content the past two years.
This might be the best Elden Ring content on all of RUclips. Can’t wait to see what you release once the DLC comes out!
I am glad that you enjoyed the content. I appreciate your comment and kind words.
Can't get enough Elfen Ring and can't get enough of your content! Keep it up my guy
Thank you! I appreciate your comment and kind words.
Found another class of "weapon" that this works with, specifically, greatshields.
An occult spiked palisade shield is a terrifying sight.
Very interesting. I wonder what kind of AR numbers it can reach. This could be a cool build for two shields. One blocks, the other attacks. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It sounds really fun. I appreciate your comment.
@@FrownyGaming with 55 str 45 arc it has 252+255 = 507 ar with 104 bleed build up on occult.
Im running a blood/sepuku iron greatsword with that shield on occult and im steamrolling the game.
STR/ARC 60/60 is phenomenal in the DLC as well, Occult Giant Crusher for Bleed immune enemies, Bleed Bloodfiend's Arm for Bonk Bleed, Blood Tax Bleed Swordlance for insane 3-5 pierce hit bleed procs, Beastman CS powerstance for jump bleed, Marais Executioner, you name it, and if all else fails, or you need weapon buffs, you still have effective 90 STR for heavy or other infused 2handed weapons. Very versatile build, slap on some Faith and/or Dex and you rock.
Back when I was exploring STR/FTH, I was shocked at its value. It is exactly as you said and this many options lead to a lot of power. Thank you for your comment.
I must admit, I miss having high arcane on my second playthrough because it provides much higher item drops. My dex/arc character was swimming with items. With strength, I would be tempted to increase faith to have some spell options, but I already did 25 faith on my dex/arc character and I could use most of the incantations effectively. I like the idea of a fire build though, and str/arc could do that since fire scales with strength and the dragon communion seal scales much better with arcane than the clawmark seal does with strength. Str/fth would have more incants, but the dragon incants feel like they are more in character with str/arc. Would make for an interesting demonknight build - str/arc, ungabunga occult weapon, fire, bleed.
ive done a build with every stat, and saved arcane for last and holy moly you definitly notice the increase in item drops
Arcane is an incredible Stat. Probably the best Stat in the game. It does so much for our characters. The Discovery increase is just the cherry on top.
I like your idea for the fire build. I think that it has good synergy and we can makes something that is really effective. Thank you for your comment.
this is so cool to know, normally when i think str/arc i just think of making a greatsword blood infused or etc, but this is really cool
That is still the case. There is nothing wrong with a Blood infused Greatsword. This is just an alternative for when you fight enemies that are immune to Bleed. Thank you for your comment.
your videos are so good and well researched I wish you great success along your way! thank you for all your content
Thank you! I really appreciate your comment and kind words.
Nice video again ! This is great content very informative and fun to watch !
I am happy that you enjoyed it. Thank you for your comment and kinds words.
STR/ARC is actually a great build for PVE AND PVP i one shot Melinia with mohgs staff and chilling mist on rotten battle hammers. I’ve done everything with strength tbh haha I love STRENGTH I use it in pvp aswell . One of my main weapons is the scythe with this build in pvp 60 STR/ 30ARC u don’t really need much u still proc statuses on enmities hella fast. Have fun experimenting. Also don’t watch other content make ur own and how u want to play
I am also a big fan of Strength in Elden Ring. I think that it has a lot of versatility and it can generate a lot of diverse playstyles. Overall, one of my favorite Stats in teh game alongside Faith. Thank you for your comment.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but stone club has this property on both occult AND bleed infusion. Bleed will actually give more strength scaling than heavy. It's wild.
While researching for this video, the Stone Club appeared to be a normal weapon in regards to the Occult infusion.
Occult Stone Club +25: STR D/ DEX E/ ARC B Scaling
Blood Stone Club +25: STR B/ ARC D Scaling
Heavy Stone Club +25: STR A Scaling
I do not see any evidence that points to what you are saying. Do you have some kind of source that I could go over? Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming he might be extremely high level
Edit: Tysm for these videos, honestly really good content in here
I wish we could infuse with AoW the Serpent-Hunter, maybe it would be in this category and maybe spectral lance would be kind of useful
Interesting point. I think you are right. If we were allowed to infuse Serpent Hunter it would probably fall into this category. That would make it pretty strong. Thank you for your comment.
As a bonk connoisseur who has in my possession the two bonkest of bonk weapons, aka. the giant crusher and the prelates crozier, while recently went back to arcane for the bleediest, unga-est of bunga-est, I am happy to see this 'quality arcane' effect on said bonkest of bonks that I possess while also intrigued with how you armed your own bloody unga bunga build. Meanwhile, I shall make the necessary changes for myself.
Call me weird, but my favorite bonk is actually the brick hammer. Almost the same AR as the giant crusher, lighter and faster moveset
So... the Quality Occult is something that I learned recently while researching the Arcane Stat. It is very useful to use against those enemies that are immune to bleed. My favorite weapon to use Quality Occult on is the Great Mace.
As for my Bleed Unga Bunga build, look up "Dr. FunGuy" in the channel. It's my Strength/Arcane build. It can be improved a bit still, but I think that it should give you a good idea of what I like to do. Thank you for your comment.
@@dgnofdarkness Nah, not weird at all. I like colossal swords, colossal weapons, and a certain tombstone simply because they're stupidly big. Guts Greatsword because it's frickin' Guts Greatsword, giant crusher because it it's a bigger, fancier brick on a stick, and said tombstone because of The Wall. Not any efficiency reasoning here. As far as the brick hammer and great hammers in general goes, i am disappointed it got its poise damage nerfed.
@@FrownyGaming I actually forgot about your Funguy build. Rewatching the vid, the build itself overall didn't stray far from your template, and is already using the great mace. Nicely done.
I simply converted my giant crusher and prelates crozier from heavy to occult. As my character is above 150, just seeing the damage numbers increase made me a little too happy.
@@AegisKHAOS the poise dmg nerf was insanely upsetting. Extra poise dmg was the reason to use great hammers over great axes, my other str build love. Now there isn't really a reason other than situational dmg type of strike, since great axes get about the same dmg, certain ones have extra hyperarmor on the charged R2 and a much higher r2 multiplier.
Funn thing, with charged tear, axe talisman, fire affinity on a str build, RkR and flame tear you can easily hit 7k per two handed R2 with the executioner's great axe. Tested on the beastman at the beside the great bridge site of grace while farming the beastman's cleaver
Great content and presentation, subbed!
Thank you! I appreciate your comment and support.
These videos help a ton, thanks so much! 🙂
Thank you! I appreciate your comment and kind words.
Str/arc is a lot better in 1.09 with roar medallion working with dragon breath. I've been using a bleed braggarts roar greatsword and I'm tempted to switch to one of these better scaling weapons just to test the big bonk potential.
Agreed. STR/ARC has definitely received some additional support now with the new Roar Medallion. I actually like the archetype a lot and uploaded a build guide some time ago. There is a lot of synergy here now with the Dragon Communion Incantations. Thank you for your comment.
wow very useful information, thanks!
I am glad that you enjoyed the content. Thank you for your comment.
I've been doing this type of research for Str/Int with cold infused str weapons like the warped axe. Iron Great sword. Even the Greatsword seem to get this quality effect.
I want to point out that the Cold infusion works different from the Occult Infusion.
See, the Cold infusion always gives the weapon INT Scaling (normally a C-Scaling), but it also keeps the weapons natural scaling mostly intact. For example, the Warped Axe has an STR A / INT C Scaling in Cold. And then, we have other quality weapons that have STR C / DEX C / INT C Scaling when infused down the Cold path. This is very common in Greatsword-Type weapons. The point of the Cold infusion is that it lowers a weapons physical capabilities in exchange for magic damage and scaling alongside the Frost status effect.
The Occult infusion always shifts the weapon's scaling to full Arcane (normally a B-Scaling, sometimes A-Scaling), but completes destroys the weapon's natural physical scaling (E's and D's always). That is why these 7 weapons are so special. Not only do they avoid the drop of their natural physical scaling, but it is increased, as well as matched by the new Arcane scaling. Furthermore, all of the scaling goes to the same damage-type: physical. This turns it into a true Quality situation, where two different Stats feed the same damage at very high intervals.
I hope this helps to understand the differences between the Cold Scaling situation and the Occult Scaling situation. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGamingeven more valuable info, you rock man, thanks
I know this is late, but is there a “quality occult” for dex arcane weapons? Like katanas or curved swords
As far as I have seen, I do not think so. This is a phenomena that only affects Strength weapons when infused down the Occult path. It really only applies to the few weapons that I mentioned, so it is a very exclusive characteristic. Thank you for your comment.
Thank you for the info very helpful you just earn a new sub🙂
Thank you! I appreciate your comment and support.
Brilliant discovery
I am happy that it's in the game. I really appreciate specific cases like these that can give the game additional variety. Thank you for your comment.
The key to this, not sure why this was skipped, but there's no reason to STOP leveling. You can make 80 STR and 80 ARC and this would eventually overcome straight STR by a lot. If you really want it you have to go into higher +
I think that this is a faulty comparison.
Of course 80 STR / 80 ARC will be better than a Pure 80 STR. You are talking about making twice the skill point investment.
A 80 STR build require about 70 levels. On the other hand, 80STR/80ARC requires more than 140 levels. When you make twice the investment, it is obvious that it will be more powerful. This comparison should be made with build that run 80STR/80FTH or something similar.
The point of the video is to show the importance of this rare scaling on controlled builds. If we continue leveling up, we can hit max level and then nothing matters. On the other hand, if we limit ourselves to the basic level range of a single playthrough (around 150), we can actually see how useful this special scaling is.
Thank you for your comment.
Since quality is already the term for Str + Dex, "Quality Occult" would be the term for Str + Dex + Arcane, all three.
Quality Occult is a term I coined to make the concept easier to understand.
Be that as it may, since you are being a bit pedantic, your comment is mixing Stats with Infusions and that is not really how the nomenclature works.
As you have said, "Quality" (infusion) means STR + DEX (Stats)
What I said, "Quality Occult" (infusion) means STR + ARC (Stats)
What you said, "Quality Occult" (infusion) meaning STR + DEX + ARC (Stats) is not really appropriate because there are many ways to play Arcane that have nothing to do with the Occult infusion. For example, Quality Arcane is STR + DEX + ARC and this let's us make a good Bleed build or Poison build without ever touching Occult. If you confuse Occult with Arcane, the nomenclature will lead to confusion.
Honestly, I do not think it is a big deal; but, again, since you are being pedantic, we should be as specific as possible.
Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming My guy it's not that complicated.
Quality is the Str Dex scaling build and infusion option. Occult is the Arcane scaling build and infusion option.
"Quality" = "Str + Dex"
"Quality Occult" = "(Str + Dex) + Arcane"
Adding a word to the existing term should add to the existing term, not change it.
That would be us being as specific as possible with our words.
I'm pedantic on purpose because it's better to coin terms that are consistent with consistent terms.
I present you two questions.
You say "Quality Occult" means STR + DEX + ARC. That said, with this set-up, it would be better to run the Bleed or Poison infusion to obtain better physical AR scaling and keeping the ARC for status application scaling. We would not be actually using the Occult infusion with a triple split STR/DEX/ARC.
Wouldn't it be better to call it "Quality Arcane", so it encompasses all the possibilities that come with an Arcane stat investment?
Furthermore, I use the term "Quality Occult" in order to represent a small group of cases in which the Occult infusion functions in a similar way as the Quality infusion. The Quality infusion favors two stats (STR + DEX) and the "Quality Occult" that I coined also favors two stats (STR + ARC) in these particular cases.
Does it not seem sensible that the similarities allow for a specific wording for a very specific case-scenario of the Occult infusion?
I feel like this debate is senseless. Is it not logical?
@@FrownyGaming Taking a word that refers to two things, then adding another word to have the phrase to a different two things, is not logical, no.
The logical option is that the initial word continues to refer to the initial two things, and the added word add what it would refer to by itself, for a new phrase that includes everything from the initial words.
Taking the dex out of quality makes it not quality, which makes these weapons with the infusion not quality occult. Just strength occult.
This is just a halfhearted effort to have lingo people in general will be quicker to understand, via consistency.
I actually found my way to this video because I was trying to google my way to seeing if the dlc added any weapons I hadn't found yet that use all three stats with non-negligible scaling. I saw "quality occult" in your title and thought "oh cool this guy must have infused a weapon I didn't check all the infusions on and realized it actually had all three decently".
Still happy to learn about these special strength arcane duo options though, I hadn't checked occult on any of these weapons, so kudos to you Mr. RUclipsr. 'Course I normally only use occult on weapons with innate status anyway.
OK. Fair enough. I have explained my thought process for why I use the term. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.
Marais Executioner sword works good with str arc too, it was a very fun build
Absolutely. The Marai's blender is an extremely fun build-type. Thank you for your comment.
great info
I am happy that you enjoyed it. Thank you for the comment.
I'll try that build out 👍
It’s very versatile. Thank you for your comment.
Well you just gave me a reason to make yet another build my friend. Lol.
I love to hear it. More builds is more fun. Thank you for your comment.
My STR/ARC build is just tryna reach minimum requirements for the weapon and just scaling with faith and arcane on the great star weapon and uses bloodflame blade(if u like cheating fire's deadly sin) and just using spells to back off bosses and only going close reach if the boss if fast or can easily close the distance or i could just steamroll them wit prelate's charge bloodflame blade, i high recommend this build as it makes malenia trival and other bosses become more technical to fight.
Sounds like you like FTH/ARC. I am currently working on the optimization for a build like this. It is really strong. Faith and Arcane synergize very well and give the player all options possible. Very effective. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming i feel blessed by ur presence🙏🏻
Strength/arc with bleed infusion to me is better than occult, bleed infusion has less brute force but dual welding weapons at 116 bleed pretty much melts everything
Agreed. That said, the point of the video is to highlight a fringe occurrence that gives the STR/ARC archetype an additional option against enemies that do not bleed. Quality Occult is not supposed to substitute Bleed. It is supposed to complement it. Thank you for your comment.
question; is the 55 str assuming two handing to reach 55? or is that 55 before two handing? would reaching 55 with the 1.5x str multiplier from two handing to reach 55 get to the same softcap?
For this video, when I talk about 55 Strength, I mean one-handed. No two-hand bonus is taken into account.
Thnx for teaching us this detail. FromSoft is upping their game.
Thank you! I appreciate your comment.
nice vid
Thank you. I appreciate your comment and kind words.
well with that build u can only use 2/3 arcane weapons(moghs spear,2gargoyle twinblade which requires ng+, great stars)... im running 60 arcane and 40 dex/18str. my problem is iwant the best hitting hammer for that build because of enemies being immune to blood, which is the curved club or the great mace the more u put into str. but curved club has more range. as u have shown if u just want to hit with hammers ure better of with strength.
You are not wrong, but I really think that you are missing the point. While it is clear that you can hit harder with a Pure Strength build, the point is that, with this set-up, you can use really good Bleed weapons - like, for example, Blood Iron Greatsword - but still have access to really good, pure physical damage options through this special Quality Occult scaling. Furthermore, we have access to some support incantations. It is all about having options. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming it wouldve been very interesting and helpful that u show ure blood infused weapons as well as the ash of war on them. maybe in ure next video?! if u alrdy did maybe link in discription. ill check out some other stuff of yours for sure :)
Like Frowny already mentioned, the point of this is everything else you can do beside the regular arcane or strength build.
The fact that you can wield all these “strength” weapons while still having access to stuff like Dragon spells is insanely fun, while still competing with a full strength build.
You can also put an insane amount of bleed on weapons like Guts Greatsword. Sure you will lose some raw damage but you get insanely high bleed like 160. This will proc bleed in like two hits. Put a stomp uppercut on that and it becomes very deadly. Insanely fun in pvp as well
As a bleed and unga bunga lover, this hybrid build is godlike!
I am glad that you enjoyed the video. I found this little gem to be very useful. Thank you for your comment.
Frankly, anyone who asked "wouldn't it be better to run 80 str heavy be better?" probably doesn't understand what a two-stat build actually is.
I'd hazard a guess they were comparing 80 str heavy to this special infusion with less strength and adding arcane with the missing points. 40 and 40, 50 and 50, whatever they were imagining. Implying in turn that a regular quality build would have less str to get the dex, just the same.
Which is wrong. When you make a build, you hit the cap in your damage stats. All of them.
A quality build does not sacrifice strength to get dex. It has 80 strength and 80 dex.
The points for the 2nd damage stat don't come from the first damage stat, they come from having less vigor/mind/endurance.
Likewise building for this would mean 80 strength and 80 arcane, with that reduced vigor/mind/endurance, and should mean more damage then a strength only heavy build.
This is categorically incorrect.
YOUR FIRST POINT
It is foolish to compare a Pure STR build (at 80 STR) with an overleveled hybrid, for example, STR/ARC (at 80 STR and 80 ARC). The second build has about 70 additional points of investment. Of course the second one would be stronger. The point is to compare a controlled Pure STR build (at 80 STR) with a controlled STR/ARC build (at 56 STR / 45 ARC). In this sense, both builds sit at a similar level and we can see how they perform. After that we make a determination of what sacrifices we can make.
Again, comparing two separate build structures as if they were equal is just going to give us incorrect data and conclusions. If I am going to sit down and "math up" a build, I have to make sure that I am not cheating myself with faulty testing methods.
YOUR SECOND POINT
Most hybrid builds do not reach the final Soft Cap for all of their main Stats. Normally, they go to the Second Soft Cap. Making a full commitment to maximize every damage stat will lead to build being RL 200-250. There is nothing wrong with this but, since most builds stay around RL125 for PvP and RL150 for PvE, this is impossible to do.
A generalized hybrid build will mostly reach the Second Soft Cap for its main damage Stat, and then go to a stopping point with its secondary stat depending on what they are looking for.
For example, STR/ARC - A good Stat distribution is 56 STR (second Soft Cap for damage) and 45 ARC (second Soft Cap for status effect application).
Another example can be STR/FTH - We can run 56 STR (second Soft Cap for damage) and 25 FTH (requirement for Golden Vow) or maybe even 35 FTH for requirements of the second tier protective incantations.
Hybrid build are not 80/80. That's just an overleveled build. At that point might as well put 60 in every stats and call it a day.
MY POINT - DO NOT SACRIFICE VIGOR
Never sacrifice Vigor for damage stats. Specially for the DLC. Vigor at 60 every single time.
Thank you for your comment.
I was comparing builds at the same level, not different levels. All controlled builds.
My "pure strength" builds powerstance two str weapons at the cap corresponding to the character level I've chosen to stop at [80, 60, 50, it depends how low I'm keeping the character]. (two handing with less str for extra str after the boost I'd do in a different build I wouldn't call pure strength.
My "pure dex" builds use dex weapons at 80 [60, 50, depends on stopping level again] dex.
And my quality builds, which are the same level as matching my Str and Dex builds, may or may not use the two hand boost, depending on what gear I want to use. But generally matching the stats for power stance option. The same premise would apply when I'm doing Str + Arcane or Dex + Arcane equivalents to a quality build.
My two stat builds do not reduce a damage stat to get the other damage stat. They reduce vigor/mind/endurance, to get more damage stats at the same level as the one stat build. Strength of course has the added factor of whether I want to two hand one weapon or powerstance two; build the full strength stat or use the two handing boost for it. Though I generally prefer to keep my powerstance option open.
I will go down a vigor cap over a damage stat cap any day.
It's also worth noting that an Arcane build, whether pure or hybrid, and adding some (less) arcane just for status, are two different things.
I wouldn't say I'm doing a dex-arcane build if I have some (less) arcane just because my dex weapon has bleed. I'd say I'm doing a dex build with bleed.
I'd say I'm doing dex-arcane when I'm really building up both for my weapon's damage scaling. Matching the stats for weapons that scale good with both.
I'll grant I've the odd mindset of wanting real "purist" status builds. The game doesn't actually let you have those, but I want to and sometimes try to get as close as the game lets you.
[A "purist" status build wants to do all their damage with the status, not any raw damage. My hypothetical ideal bleed build weapon would deal 0 damage but proc bleed every hit. It's not a thing but in the back of my mind it's what I want when I saw I want a status build.]
You do not need 60 vigor. 40 is fine.
I tried and tested 60 vigor long enough to verify that oh so many enemies, various pvp encounters included, would kill me in the same number of hits either way. I haven't bothered with 60 vigor since, all my builds use 40, and never seem to die any faster than the 60 vigor users whether pvp or pve. At this point I basically can't imagine going up to 60 vigor if I'm not on a pve character I'll never stop leveling.
I'll put those extra 20 points in vigor only if I can't make them useful toward my damage stats. But I happen to generally prefer the two stat options over the one stat options (quality over dex or str, melee caster hybrids over melee or casting only, the int+faith spells and weapons over the int/faith only ones), so that's not normally on the table, and when I do go single stat it's probably arcane with occult.
Slight side track but I haven't heard anyone try to suggest 125 as the pvp level in Ages. Since roughly around launch.
At launch a lot of people thought it would be around 120 because they assumed it would be the same as what they remembered from Souls, but the community quickly decided 120 was too low and 150 was the pvp level. For pve only, if one wanted to disregard pvp entirely, it was just "level as much as you feel like, it doesn't matter anyway, it's just pve and you can password for co op if you want".
For my part I didn't (and still don't) really care what level was chosen for the meta pvp level, as long as the community made a decision and I therefor knew when to stop leveling a meta-pvp character. Which was and is, apparently, 150 standard. Though there's enough players to find plenty of pvp at whatever level you choose to stop at for a given character, at least up to 210, which is the highest character I've made so far (and which still has only 40 vigor).
I see. I misunderstood your initial comment. You prefer to take levels from survivability stats in favor of a higher DPS output. While I disagree with this philosophy of build-making, it is certainly valid and respectable. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify.
It's still to stat heavy for meta pvp, and as seen in the vid doesn't really do as much damage compared to pure str, pure dex or pure arcane until very high levels like 80/80 split. Like prince of death staff. Even at that point you are better off with a str/faith build at 80/80 split. Using something like great stats and bloodflame blade. You get the most from the buff but also the extra bleed. Which usually you will kill another player before you even proc the bleed.
You’re right, this is not really relevant for most PvP situations. It’s more useful for builds around RL150 PvE. There is some value that can be obtained from this specific scaling and the video aims to explain the phenomenon and show its potential uses. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming I agree, there is great value to this as well. As it can get that high scaling from strenght and arcane at those levels. It would still be fun to play around with and I'm thinking about trying it out. But I will probably run mainly pure stre most of the build until late game or ng+ then start investing into arcane more. I do this for all my hybrid builds honestly, as they always seem underwhelming for the majority of the playthrough compared to a pure build.
@@kurrupoppo6937 I do the same. Focus on one Stat early game and then tilt to hybrid. It is the way.
While this do have slightly lower dps rating, a competent player will definitely be a force to be reckoned with in a RL150 duel. Even more so for invasions with access to dragon and blood spells.
You’re right that it falls off at lower levels though, but that’s true for all types of hybrid builds
But there is no reason to go to 80 str at the first place, especially when two-handed weapon. When two-handing, it will multiply your str stat by 1.5 and stat levels are capped at 99. Therefore, at 80 str and two-handing weapon, your str will still be capped at 99 regardless of the math. On the other hand, at 55 str and two-handing weapon, your str will be at 82.5, which isn't a huge difference with 99 str since they all pass the final soft cap. Ideally, you should compare 55str/45arc with 66str
This is categorically incorrect. You are thinking of the past Souls Games.
In Elden Ring, Strength is the only Stat that can go beyond Level 99 through the Two-Handing system. At 80 STR, if you two hand your weapon, you will receive damage scaling as if you were at 120 STR. If I recall correctly, the new Strength cap for physical damage scaling is 150, all things considered.
There is a video in the channel where I go through all the details of the Strength Stat. Look for "How Does Strength Work?" for more information. It is all explained there. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming My bad. They did update the cap for strength scaling
Did you at all consider the Great Stars? It has good strength and arcane scaling with native bleed.
The Great Stars is one of my favorite weapons in the game. Unfortunately, it does not have good synergy with the Quality Occult concept.
Blood Great Stars has C/C/D STR/DEX/ARC scaling.
Occult Great Stars only has notable scaling in Arcane at B.
These video is about highlighting those weapons that have special Occult Scaling, combining high Strength and Arcane scaling. Usually B/B. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming Yeah that's my bad I remembered wrong. Do you know of any weapons with decent scaling and bleed?
on a new play thru I'm leaning into Int & Arc with 20/20 str/dex but I am soo bored to death w Bleed builds. no offense lol It's just such a well trodden path. so frost and poison for early mid then i wanna play w dearh blight and rot for mid game with the intention of using spells for late game as spell casting is one part of the game I've yet to learn well. Stat spread is pretty even now which gives access to huge amount of options then late game I get one Renala respec wher I'll funnel all those extra points into Int and Mind
I have no sure idea if I'll be successful haha but this 4th play thru I want to challenge all the things I've yet to try
While I agree that Bleed builds have been overdone and overbuilt, the fact remains that Arcane is a very interesting Stat with many mechanics within it. The fact that there is specific scaling for certain weapons in the Occult path is very cool and I wish that there were more hidden interactions among weapons and stats.
That said, if you are running an INT/ARC build, I have a build guide in the channel where I set up this kind of build. If you are interested, look up "Jester Timothy". If nothing else, this clown is a fun time. Thank you for your comment.
@@FrownyGaming Thank u for the reply, Frowny. I have seen the Jester Timothy video! It helped me sketch out the basics of elevating my current build after reaching my Vig 40 soft cap and 20/20 quality Str/Dex - personal musts for surviving. I think u laff a bit at how my stats are currently spread. 40-12-16-20-20-23-15-15
It's giving me alot of utility as I've narrowed down my weapon/spell choices.
I'm going to re watch that Jester Tim vid b4 my 1 reapec for this NG. But that also reminds me I had a question..
Why no Jerren outfit for the Jester?
Too on the nose..?
Wish you well friend. Look forward to yer future content!
makes me wonder if dual club would be viable with STR/ARC or would I be better off with a bigger unga bunga stick
If you’re looking for a dual wield option, try two Warped Axes. Over 600 AR each. I love the Warped Axe for STR/ARC. Thank you for your comment.
I always increase both strength (defense) and dex (offense)…. Am I Elden Ringing wrong!?
Absolutely. That is called a Quality build, and they are all kinds of fun. Nothing wrong here. Thank you for your comment.
Is poison or occult better on great stars btw?
For the Great Stars I definitely recommend the Occult path. Pure Physical damage and scaling bleed application make it a fantastic choice. Thank you for your comment.
Wish i had watched this before i killed elden beast with my (bleed) beastman great curved sword lmao. Mohg trident destroyed radagon but it only tickled elden beast
It's alright. On my first playthrough I used a weapon with Holy Damage against them and it turned out that they were super resistant to it. Now that you know, the next battle against them will be better. It's all part of the process. Thank you for your comment.
I mean i knew they are bleed immune ofc, just didn't have another pure phys weapon at hand at the time. Upgraded occult great Mace to +25 for the next ng cycle after watching this vid
do you get the blood status effect tho? how can you get bleed on a giant crusher.
The Occult infusion does not give Bleed Passive to the Giant Crusher. In order to do that, you need to infuse it down the Blood path. Occult in this case provides a really specific scaling that favors STR/ARC builds and it proves to be useful against enemies that are naturally resistant or immune to Bleed. Thank you for your comment.
"Str/Fth has some serious competition."
Sir, we don't commit heresy here. Repent before it is too late!
Hahahaha I know, I know. Dangerous words within crusading distance. Thank you for your comment.
So the soft cap for fire and magic damage on arcane scaling weapons is 50, and 56 on physical occult basically?
Correct. Any elemental damage has a second Soft Cap at 50 of the corresponding Stat. Level 80 is the final Soft Cap, although it is questionable if it's worth investing to it.
As for Quality, as you mentioned, it is 56. Although it might be interesting to take it to 60 to reach the second Soft Cap for status effect application.
These are the things to consider. Thank you for your comment.