I've used a few of those stratgies in my current world. Depending on the country. For example, Elvyrians outlawed all forms of magic and anyone who is caught using magic is sentenced to death. In another country, magic isn't forbidden but is somewhat policed.
I think it'd be interesting if different Mage factions conflict with each other for example you could have Royal Mages in conflict with another group of Mages
The other thing is that because the cost of magic has an effect on the surrounding world - eg taking life forces from people or the land, the magic is outlawed, a you have mentioned.
Great channel, I hope you start to pick up more attention here. Don't worry about having to apologize for a cat cameo, they are always welcome for most people.
Another example of a Secret Society type of magocracy that came to my mind would be the Harry Potter books. I'm actually not the biggest fan of the worldbuilding in that series, but I think it does have a good example of a society of wizards hiding themselves in modern times.
I only read the first book, to be honest. And saw the movies. From what I understood in that setting the mages don't "control" human governs (like, for instance, the Vampires in Vampire the Masquerade do, in some interpretations os that setting) they have some shady understandings with the Primer Minister of UK. That's one of those "hard to swallow" things that this setting is famous for, I think. If you have in mind only the Magical World, again, I am not sure if it is a magocracy. As defined here in this channel. Because isn't clear to me how much the magic power in itself defines who is in political power. As far as I understand they have more or less a caste society, whit slaves and mythical creatures with and without magical power, whit variated levels of intelligence, and some of them inclined to eat others. Very interesting stuff, would be even better if it was more consistent. Now NOTHING IN THAT SAYS IT CANNOT BE A DEMOCRACY TOO, the Ancient Greeks who invented Democracy had slaves, ergo: no big deal. But I don't think they are a democracy. Still, the collective will of aristocratic families seems to be more important to political power and lawmaking than the actual magical power of individuals. Is one of those cases where so many people are mages, and the gap of power between the most powerful mages and the competent ones bellow their level is not THAT astronomical. So, no one could hope to rule just "because magic". Voldemort himself has a powerbase of true believers, who share his convictions. Without those people (many who are aristocrats) he could never be more than a common criminal in the setting. Would be different if there was a duel system in place. Where any mage of a certain level or background could challenge the Chief of State and Govern and battle for his position.
thanks for another great video even if I'm a bit late for your worldbuilding course. But your words made me see more clearly the fantasy series from books, movies, comics and even manga. base on what you say, and I hope I understood correctly, in a world where some random citizen can shoot a fire ball at a low cost, then it would make sense that the king stays on power because he can shoot even bigger fire balls, or if I'm trying to be more elaborate at least the king have to be able to give benefits to those who can shoot those massive fire balls. and also he should make them see that is convenient to stay on his side because he can keep the benefits going their way (that way he reduces the chances of betrayal). so I hope I got it right, I made a paralallel with kings/queens and magic, with governers and tyrants and military power. so the wizards/mages could fullfill the role of generals and soldiers since they are the ones that held the magic. well all that appart from the strategies you already explained. thanks again for the lesson.
You got it exactly right :) Magic destabilizes politics because of the personal power of the magician. You're very welcome and I hope you enjoy my little corner of RUclips :)
Something I would absolutely like to add is that Government and Magic Institutions, if separate, should get into some conflict. The main reason is that Magic can be spread among the Peasentry, giving them some resources to fight against the Aristocracy, Monarchy(or Parliament or Senate), and the Clergy if they are dissatisfied, so the Government could restrict magical education or gain loyalties of specific and influential communities and Tribes.
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding only couple videos ago, when I just ran into your channel, randomly, and right before I began to watch your first upload of three years ago, I was thinking to myself: "This woman is crazy! Four hours video long about war? Even if it's valuable info, I'll never find the time to watch it". And now I'm thinking (considering the current total [of 420] videos in your channel): "OK, I have only left 418 more videos to go until I get to watch the 4 hrs war video, and I can't hardly wait to watch them all. (What ancient spell did you put on me, you w**ch 😏)
Hahahaha. Well, the 4 hour monster is compilation. I didn't shoot it all at once. It's some of the old content, some new bits and all arranged into one long stretch of how to handle war from start to end. I'm glad your enjoying the content, it's always great to hear!
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding Yes, I noticed that it is a compilation but currently the mindset is that this subject is too appealing for not watching this video entirely. Nevertheless, It was quite a disappointment to find out that this channel doesn't exist in the podcasts platforms.. I was certain, and it is only natural, that those talks will be consumable by hearing, and that people will have a ton of fun doing sport activity with your content in their ears. So unless it is only me who didn't find it but it does exist - that's really a shame.
So I do have a podcast for the some of the videos, it's called Worldbuilding Blueprints worldbuildingblueprints.buzzsprout.com/share That's all the videos that are more... structured. So it's an actual season dealing with world building. And I release one of those each month. For the main content, the playlist is a podcast, do it's available as a RUclips podcast on RUclips music. When I created the channel, I just created it as a video channel. I could start uploading as a general podcast, but the problem is that it does cost money to host a podcast and I'm not sure the channel will get enough listens to justify the hosting cost. I'll run a poll sometime soon and see what the people say.
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding Yes, they are available even on Amazon as e-books. He also wrote Chronicles of Hara, where a bunch of wizard students turn evil, after they lost a rebellion against the hierarchy of the magic council. I really like your style of presentation, and start to watch the videos right know, as I'm a hobby novelist (and worldbuilder on WorldAnvil).
A few comments and thoughts: First, 20% is FAR too high for magic to be the criterion for noble class entry - consider the real world history, where the nobility was far less than 20% population, or the modern world where multi-millionaires are not 20% of population. I would suggest about 5% to have the magic users and ruling classes coincide. Second, magic could be controlled by making the use of magic available to those belonging in a special group - guild, society; or only members of the Church(es) could practice it - those practising magic outside the society etc would be subject to severe sanctions. eg medical practitioners today, who have specialized training, and only those in the College or are licensed by the government can practice medicine. And the licensing body has disciplinary powers against malefactors - criminal negligence, taking advantage of their position concerning patients/clients if they engage in sex acts etc. And if someone practises medicine without a licence, or even worse without training, the penalties if caught are long jail sentences. The same methodology could be very appropriate for a magic licencing body - again, lots of training, and entry limited to those with high abilities - in medicine, very superior academic scores. And I would favour a society where magic-users have roughly the same numbers, training, practice restrictions and sanctions, and numbers as doctors in our world, with the more lowly general practitioner mages, and the highly specialised ones, the researcher ones, and at the top, the professorial ones - and even the celebrity ones - either in their own right (Dr Oz) or as advisors (personal physicians) to the rulers. And of course, just as some doctors make it to the apex of rulership in our world, magic-users can do the same in a fantasy world. Overall. I think the 20% rule is far to high a number.
What about a World where magic is so commonplace that everyone uses it in their daily lives ,but the impact is pretty low for most people. (Example - lighting houses with fire, cutting trees with wind, farm with earth) How do you think this will affect the politics,??
I believe Game of Thrones intention is to play with a change in Magic Level. Reverting the usual trope stablished by Tolkien, where magic is leaving the world to give ground for The Age of Men. In Game of Thrones magic is coming back, after being away since the Fall of Valyria. That's why the setting starts "low magic" and if gradually (or not that gradually, in the case of the birth of dragons) change. Characters in world associate that change with the dragons, but I suspect that's a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc. Perhaps the spell to bring dragon eggs back to life and hatch them worked because the magic level was higher. Not the opposite. I suspect the tides of magic change naturally in that setting. Perhaps in cycles of thousands of years of high magic, interrupted for shorter periods of low magic. Maybe the Doom of Valyria was caused by one of those "low magic seasons". The arrival of those Ice Elf necromancers was booked by them thousands of years ago, because they need the influx of magic to make the exploration of southern regions economically viable for their empire. All that is my speculation as a reader. We will probably never know if I am right in something or completely wrong.
Interesting thoughts. If I recollect some of the lore correctly, there maesters believe that the dragons bring magic to the world. More dragons, more magic kind of deal. It might be that your tides of magic are actually driven by the population of dragons rising and falling. Or it could be the other way :D Sadly, I don't think Martin is ever going to finish that series. And after the experience with the TV show, I'm not sure I want anyone else to try to finish it.
One among many frustrating experiences with that sort of thing,@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding. I wonder if showbusiness people in US and US satellite nations are trying to succeed, or failing on purpose. Best to leave the story as it is now than to give it for other D&D team, I agree.
Very good watch! I ended up using the Mage-ocracy route for my homebrew D&D world.
Great choice :) It has so many great plot hooks, especially for a role playing world. Endless ways to get PC mages into trouble.
I've used a few of those stratgies in my current world. Depending on the country. For example, Elvyrians outlawed all forms of magic and anyone who is caught using magic is sentenced to death. In another country, magic isn't forbidden but is somewhat policed.
It's pretty good to spread out such laws :)
I think it'd be interesting if different Mage factions conflict with each other for example you could have Royal Mages in conflict with another group of Mages
Magical conflict makes for good plot lines
Oh man the spirit slayers! I remember those guys!!!
i finally found the topic i'm looking for almost a year.. thank you :)
That is great to hear! Let me know if you have any special requests in the comments, I'll be happy to take community input on topics.
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding i will. glad i found your channel. as soon as i saw this i instantly clicked the subscribe button.
The other thing is that because the cost of magic has an effect on the surrounding world - eg taking life forces from people or the land, the magic is outlawed, a you have mentioned.
Just discovered your channel, very good and informative videos!
Welcome aboard, great to meet you :)
Great channel, I hope you start to pick up more attention here. Don't worry about having to apologize for a cat cameo, they are always welcome for most people.
Thanks so much! The algorithm is slowly starting to bury less of the videos out back and comments help enormously to grow the audience.
Another example of a Secret Society type of magocracy that came to my mind would be the Harry Potter books. I'm actually not the biggest fan of the worldbuilding in that series, but I think it does have a good example of a society of wizards hiding themselves in modern times.
I only read the first book, to be honest. And saw the movies. From what I understood in that setting the mages don't "control" human governs (like, for instance, the Vampires in Vampire the Masquerade do, in some interpretations os that setting) they have some shady understandings with the Primer Minister of UK. That's one of those "hard to swallow" things that this setting is famous for, I think.
If you have in mind only the Magical World, again, I am not sure if it is a magocracy. As defined here in this channel. Because isn't clear to me how much the magic power in itself defines who is in political power. As far as I understand they have more or less a caste society, whit slaves and mythical creatures with and without magical power, whit variated levels of intelligence, and some of them inclined to eat others. Very interesting stuff, would be even better if it was more consistent. Now NOTHING IN THAT SAYS IT CANNOT BE A DEMOCRACY TOO, the Ancient Greeks who invented Democracy had slaves, ergo: no big deal. But I don't think they are a democracy.
Still, the collective will of aristocratic families seems to be more important to political power and lawmaking than the actual magical power of individuals.
Is one of those cases where so many people are mages, and the gap of power between the most powerful mages and the competent ones bellow their level is not THAT astronomical. So, no one could hope to rule just "because magic". Voldemort himself has a powerbase of true believers, who share his convictions. Without those people (many who are aristocrats) he could never be more than a common criminal in the setting.
Would be different if there was a duel system in place. Where any mage of a certain level or background could challenge the Chief of State and Govern and battle for his position.
thanks for another great video even if I'm a bit late for your worldbuilding course. But your words made me see more clearly the fantasy series from books, movies, comics and even manga. base on what you say, and I hope I understood correctly, in a world where some random citizen can shoot a fire ball at a low cost, then it would make sense that the king stays on power because he can shoot even bigger fire balls, or if I'm trying to be more elaborate at least the king have to be able to give benefits to those who can shoot those massive fire balls. and also he should make them see that is convenient to stay on his side because he can keep the benefits going their way (that way he reduces the chances of betrayal). so I hope I got it right, I made a paralallel with kings/queens and magic, with governers and tyrants and military power. so the wizards/mages could fullfill the role of generals and soldiers since they are the ones that held the magic. well all that appart from the strategies you already explained. thanks again for the lesson.
You got it exactly right :) Magic destabilizes politics because of the personal power of the magician. You're very welcome and I hope you enjoy my little corner of RUclips :)
I love your videos, they're so good. Keep it up!
I’m glad you’re enjoying them 😌
Something I would absolutely like to add is that Government and Magic Institutions, if separate, should get into some conflict. The main reason is that Magic can be spread among the Peasentry, giving them some resources to fight against the Aristocracy, Monarchy(or Parliament or Senate), and the Clergy if they are dissatisfied, so the Government could restrict magical education or gain loyalties of specific and influential communities and Tribes.
Interesting. Very much. I'm glad I've found this channel.
Thank you for doing this..
Welcome to my small corner of RUclips :D
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding only couple videos ago, when I just ran into your channel, randomly, and right before I began to watch your first upload of three years ago, I was thinking to myself: "This woman is crazy! Four hours video long about war? Even if it's valuable info, I'll never find the time to watch it".
And now I'm thinking (considering the current total [of 420] videos in your channel):
"OK, I have only left 418 more videos to go until I get to watch the 4 hrs war video, and I can't hardly wait to watch them all.
(What ancient spell did you put on me, you w**ch 😏)
Hahahaha. Well, the 4 hour monster is compilation. I didn't shoot it all at once. It's some of the old content, some new bits and all arranged into one long stretch of how to handle war from start to end. I'm glad your enjoying the content, it's always great to hear!
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding Yes, I noticed that it is a compilation but currently the mindset is that this subject is too appealing for not watching this video entirely.
Nevertheless,
It was quite a disappointment to find out that this channel doesn't exist in the podcasts platforms..
I was certain, and it is only natural, that those talks will be consumable by hearing, and that people will have a ton of fun doing sport activity with your content in their ears.
So unless it is only me who didn't find it but it does exist - that's really a shame.
So I do have a podcast for the some of the videos, it's called Worldbuilding Blueprints worldbuildingblueprints.buzzsprout.com/share That's all the videos that are more... structured. So it's an actual season dealing with world building. And I release one of those each month.
For the main content, the playlist is a podcast, do it's available as a RUclips podcast on RUclips music. When I created the channel, I just created it as a video channel. I could start uploading as a general podcast, but the problem is that it does cost money to host a podcast and I'm not sure the channel will get enough listens to justify the hosting cost.
I'll run a poll sometime soon and see what the people say.
How would you interpret the evil/tragic sorcerers in Alexei Pehovs Chronicles of Siala?
I’ve never read those, so I can’t really say. Have they been translated into English?
@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding Yes, they are available even on Amazon as e-books. He also wrote Chronicles of Hara, where a bunch of wizard students turn evil, after they lost a rebellion against the hierarchy of the magic council. I really like your style of presentation, and start to watch the videos right know, as I'm a hobby novelist (and worldbuilder on WorldAnvil).
A few comments and thoughts: First, 20% is FAR too high for magic to be the criterion for noble class entry - consider the real world history, where the nobility was far less than 20% population, or the modern world where multi-millionaires are not 20% of population. I would suggest about 5% to have the magic users and ruling classes coincide.
Second, magic could be controlled by making the use of magic available to those belonging in a special group - guild, society; or only members of the Church(es) could practice it - those practising magic outside the society etc would be subject to severe sanctions. eg medical practitioners today, who have specialized training, and only those in the College or are licensed by the government can practice medicine. And the licensing body has disciplinary powers against malefactors - criminal negligence, taking advantage of their position concerning patients/clients if they engage in sex acts etc. And if someone practises medicine without a licence, or even worse without training, the penalties if caught are long jail sentences. The same methodology could be very appropriate for a magic licencing body - again, lots of training, and entry limited to those with high abilities - in medicine, very superior academic scores. And I would favour a society where magic-users have roughly the same numbers, training, practice restrictions and sanctions, and numbers as doctors in our world, with the more lowly general practitioner mages, and the highly specialised ones, the researcher ones, and at the top, the professorial ones - and even the celebrity ones - either in their own right (Dr Oz) or as advisors (personal physicians) to the rulers. And of course, just as some doctors make it to the apex of rulership in our world, magic-users can do the same in a fantasy world.
Overall. I think the 20% rule is far to high a number.
It might indeed be :) Ultimately, whatever you choose for your world is right as long as it’s internally consistent ☺️
What about a World where magic is so commonplace that everyone uses it in their daily lives ,but the impact is pretty low for most people. (Example - lighting houses with fire, cutting trees with wind, farm with earth)
How do you think this will affect the politics,??
I'd run it more or less as technology affects us. So it has an impact certainly, but not as dramatic as say fire ball throwing.
I believe Game of Thrones intention is to play with a change in Magic Level. Reverting the usual trope stablished by Tolkien, where magic is leaving the world to give ground for The Age of Men. In Game of Thrones magic is coming back, after being away since the Fall of Valyria. That's why the setting starts "low magic" and if gradually (or not that gradually, in the case of the birth of dragons) change.
Characters in world associate that change with the dragons, but I suspect that's a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc. Perhaps the spell to bring dragon eggs back to life and hatch them worked because the magic level was higher. Not the opposite.
I suspect the tides of magic change naturally in that setting. Perhaps in cycles of thousands of years of high magic, interrupted for shorter periods of low magic. Maybe the Doom of Valyria was caused by one of those "low magic seasons". The arrival of those Ice Elf necromancers was booked by them thousands of years ago, because they need the influx of magic to make the exploration of southern regions economically viable for their empire.
All that is my speculation as a reader. We will probably never know if I am right in something or completely wrong.
Interesting thoughts. If I recollect some of the lore correctly, there maesters believe that the dragons bring magic to the world. More dragons, more magic kind of deal. It might be that your tides of magic are actually driven by the population of dragons rising and falling.
Or it could be the other way :D
Sadly, I don't think Martin is ever going to finish that series. And after the experience with the TV show, I'm not sure I want anyone else to try to finish it.
One among many frustrating experiences with that sort of thing,@@JustInTimeWorldbuilding. I wonder if showbusiness people in US and US satellite nations are trying to succeed, or failing on purpose. Best to leave the story as it is now than to give it for other D&D team, I agree.