Okay, so I've finally figured out how to practice with the metronome on 2 and 4 EFFECTIVELY. Every jazz teacher mentions the importance of placing the click on 2 and 4. What many DON'T emphasize is that YOU are now RESPONSIBLE for feeling the DOWNBEAT and the 3 in your body. If you JUST hear 2 and 4 and that's it, your time can go lopsided the other way--that's what I thought you were going to talk about. Great time is grounded time--even Dexter Gordan's time feel was grounded. My teacher has me do the click on 2 and 4, while I stomp my right root on 1 and 3 AND my left foot on 4. Dancers are said to feel the 1 and 3 with their feet and the 2 and 4 with their upper torso and arms. The metronome is not "set it and forget it." You have to activate the whole body and feel that down beat in your gut. Then you can dive into the whole Mike Longo Rhythmic Nature of Jazz material to really feel the swing--it's all West African polyrhythms like Dizzy used to teach. Always enjoy the videos, and your patience with my zany comments ;)
Hello Dave, while I am aware that this video is aimed at beginners, I would like to add that this 2&4 thing is just a start. IMO the learning goals must be these two: 1) To use the metronome just as an "intermediate control" and not as something that must be "hit" as exactly as possible, timewise. Swing timing always involves an "elasticity". So students should be advised to use the least clicks per time unit as possible as soon as possible (go to using the metronome only on beat 4 as soon as possible, then even to metronome only on the 4 every two bars). 2) To lose beginner habits like playing down beats louder or playing the beats where the metronome clicks louder. The student's feel of "here is a metrically stressed point" and his dynamics (between each note of the phrase) and microtiming must be decoupled, otherwise natural flow and real swing isn't possible. I like to see the metronome as a "waymarker" which, when I come along it, just shows me whether I am still on the right path.
Yes, yes, yes! 2 and 4 is the way to getting a great feel in your playing! I have been doing this for a while and I am so glad I converted. (Loved your comment re: the “ever swinging” iReal Pro. Made me LOL)
Playing with a metronome on 2 and 4 is very beneficial gonna re-add this back to my playing. Does playing swing rhythm sound bad if you are playing a straight eighths. Should you pratice with the metronome on all 4s and the 2 and 4. Thanks for the good advice
I brought up having the click on 2/4 versus 1/3 at *high tempos* on the forum-that-shall-not-be-named. I always try to do 2/4 when practising, but when I get to say 220bpm (I.e. metronome at 110) it becomes ever more difficult to hear it as 2/4 rather than 1/3, especially when starting the metronome. I was wondering what your take on that is? Is it something to try to correct, or just stop worrying about it, or even switch to having the metronome on the 1 only? I read/watched some of Hal Galper's material where he was saying that as 2/4 are tension beats that swing, whereas 1/3 are release beats, where you would tap your foot, or even just the 1 at fast tempos. I know that if I *think* of it as a slower tempo (I.e. think quarter notes (or quavers ahem) as eighth notes), I do play more relaxed, which I think is your main takeaway here. So is there an issue with hearing it as 1/3 when things ramp up, or am I worrying about inconsequential things and should just get on with playing/practising..... 😂
I would definitely switch to 1 and 3 at really high tempos. That's really where the chord (harmonic) rhythm lies (especially at fast tempos) so it's perfectly fine. What tempo IS that exactly? Well that's really up to you - I can keep it at 2 and 4 until it gets pretty far up there, but it's really up to you.
Thanks for the reply! I guess that notion of where "fast" starts will change over time too with more practise.... 200bpm use to terrify me, now it's more like 240bpm that brings on the terror sweats....
Okay, so I've finally figured out how to practice with the metronome on 2 and 4 EFFECTIVELY. Every jazz teacher mentions the importance of placing the click on 2 and 4. What many DON'T emphasize is that YOU are now RESPONSIBLE for feeling the DOWNBEAT and the 3 in your body. If you JUST hear 2 and 4 and that's it, your time can go lopsided the other way--that's what I thought you were going to talk about. Great time is grounded time--even Dexter Gordan's time feel was grounded. My teacher has me do the click on 2 and 4, while I stomp my right root on 1 and 3 AND my left foot on 4. Dancers are said to feel the 1 and 3 with their feet and the 2 and 4 with their upper torso and arms. The metronome is not "set it and forget it." You have to activate the whole body and feel that down beat in your gut. Then you can dive into the whole Mike Longo Rhythmic Nature of Jazz material to really feel the swing--it's all West African polyrhythms like Dizzy used to teach. Always enjoy the videos, and your patience with my zany comments ;)
Hello Dave, while I am aware that this video is aimed at beginners, I would like to add that this 2&4 thing is just a start. IMO the learning goals must be these two:
1) To use the metronome just as an "intermediate control" and not as something that must be "hit" as exactly as possible, timewise. Swing timing always involves an "elasticity". So students should be advised to use the least clicks per time unit as possible as soon as possible (go to using the metronome only on beat 4 as soon as possible, then even to metronome only on the 4 every two bars).
2) To lose beginner habits like playing down beats louder or playing the beats where the metronome clicks louder. The student's feel of "here is a metrically stressed point" and his dynamics (between each note of the phrase) and microtiming must be decoupled, otherwise natural flow and real swing isn't possible.
I like to see the metronome as a "waymarker" which, when I come along it, just shows me whether I am still on the right path.
Yes, yes, yes! 2 and 4 is the way to getting a great feel in your playing! I have been doing this for a while and I am so glad I converted. (Loved your comment re: the “ever swinging” iReal Pro. Made me LOL)
Awesome!
@@DavePollack
What a player you are man...
Much appreciated 🙏
The One & Only. Unic.
Cool to hear the difference - less rigid with only the 2 and 4 👍🎶
100%!
Awesome lesson 👌
Holy cow, these are interesting posts. Thanks Cats and thanks Daaaaaave
You're very welcome!
Great video and excellent modeling.
Thanks!
Dave,
You are a serious TREASURE for the sax community!!!! Such great teaching videos!!🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🔥🔥🔥🎷🎷❤️❤️
Thank you very much Dave Pollack for this fantatics tips.
🎶🙏🎶
This no! These 😅
You're very welcome!
Yep, called me out on this one :D
😂 hey we all need some reminders once in awhile!
Great video, my sax teacher always tells me to play with the meteronome on 2 and 4
Hi! How about latin and unusual time (like 3/4 or 5/4)?
@@tioliak For those maybe just try to put the meteronome on beat 1?
Playing with a metronome on 2 and 4 is very beneficial gonna re-add this back to my playing.
Does playing swing rhythm sound bad if you are playing a straight eighths. Should you pratice with the metronome on all 4s and the 2 and 4.
Thanks for the good advice
I brought up having the click on 2/4 versus 1/3 at *high tempos* on the forum-that-shall-not-be-named. I always try to do 2/4 when practising, but when I get to say 220bpm (I.e. metronome at 110) it becomes ever more difficult to hear it as 2/4 rather than 1/3, especially when starting the metronome. I was wondering what your take on that is? Is it something to try to correct, or just stop worrying about it, or even switch to having the metronome on the 1 only?
I read/watched some of Hal Galper's material where he was saying that as 2/4 are tension beats that swing, whereas 1/3 are release beats, where you would tap your foot, or even just the 1 at fast tempos. I know that if I *think* of it as a slower tempo (I.e. think quarter notes (or quavers ahem) as eighth notes), I do play more relaxed, which I think is your main takeaway here.
So is there an issue with hearing it as 1/3 when things ramp up, or am I worrying about inconsequential things and should just get on with playing/practising..... 😂
I would definitely switch to 1 and 3 at really high tempos. That's really where the chord (harmonic) rhythm lies (especially at fast tempos) so it's perfectly fine. What tempo IS that exactly? Well that's really up to you - I can keep it at 2 and 4 until it gets pretty far up there, but it's really up to you.
Thanks for the reply! I guess that notion of where "fast" starts will change over time too with more practise.... 200bpm use to terrify me, now it's more like 240bpm that brings on the terror sweats....
I saw someone doing this on a RUclips video years ago and then a lightbulb went off!
Definitely swings harder on 2 & 4, like a hi hat click!
It Could Happen to You
Hey bro how I contact you 😅
Email me! info at davepollack dot com