Speaking of Alfred, as I was watching the movie in the cinema, I started panicking when I saw the bomb, but then I immediately thought “wait a minute, why am I so hung up on Alfred possibly dying ?” I found that this feeling was based on my knowledge of, and investment in, previous versions of Alfred, both from the comics and various adaptations. Alfred’s presence and impact as a character were limited in “The Batman”, and therefore my initial reaction was an “overreaction”. Funny how a 3 hour movie didn’t have time to invest me in this version of Alfred to actually and legitimately warrant my panic over the bomb.
to be fair, it think for such mainstream and popular characters it's ok to have some meta, outside investment. it would be like killing uncle Ben for a third time. it's redundant. if every film were in a bubble then they would be horribly redundant within the same franchise. but the audience know Alfred. just like they James Bond or something. we don't need our hand held for the butler in a movie that isn't about him. we already know him, it's ok to play off that.
The fact that even for a split second you thought there was a possibility that such a substantial character like Alfred could die that early on in Batmans story speaks volumes on how good it was at getting people invested, no matter how much people don't want to admit it for some reason. This was a really good movie with great acting and pretty good and in some parts amazing writing.
@@DoofusChungus 🤣🤣🤣 No.. Just no.. It was neither good nor well acted, it was mediocre at best. Batman does more damage than most of the bad guys in this movie, if he wanted to bring innocent victim casulties down, he should simply stop what he is doing.
subjectively, I couldn't reconcile a guy walking around in a bat suit like a normal guy. batman shouldn't walk in through the front door of a mafioso's night club. Reeves' version is as full of BAM! BOOM! POW! action while batman makes his way through the building that any action hero would take, so to say this is a different kind of batman who is a detective rather than an action hero doesn't work for me. objectively, this film relies too much on adjusting the power levels of everything (not just the suit). and that's what this whole world feels like to me, a surreal dream in which things happen, and you can't really explain how or why you got there, but you're there. maybe a waking dream or a bad acid trip. I didn't hate it, but it's not for me. I don't want batman to ever be able to walk around in a bat suit like it's just another night in Gotham. I also felt as though there was no grounding (hence the string of dream sequences analogy).
I get this weird feeling about the ppl defending this movie so hard. They say things like you just didn't get it, and this is close to the comics or the animated series. Or the city felt like Gotham. But know one can say why these things are good. I think some things can be good but none of these things in this movie fit together. The studio had their hands all over this movie and I didn't see any vision or theme throughout it. It's skin deep and I didn't like it at all. The coolest thing in the movie was at the beginning when the criminals were scared of the shadowy corners of the world and they didn't do anything with this concept. 4 out 10 as a movie. And compared to Batman begins it's a 2 out 10.
@@jessemockler616 I didn't think it was BAD, but I'm with you on the mix of moods/approaches not really blending together. still...6 or so from me. 4 feels too much like haterade. it's a decent movie. /2cents
While I can't call it a bad film, I didn't really care for it. There's nothing I absolutely hated, but there's nothing I loved either. As someone who has seen every Batman film countless times (even the bad ones), I have zero desire to ever see this again. I found it unexciting and forgettable.
I agree. It did a lot right in its first hour, didn't do much at all in the second, and the third kind of undermined anything I actually liked about the movie. One and done for me.
Batman couldn’t figure out riddler was across the street nor can he get out of the way of bullets nor does he know Spanish which is crazy cause he grew up learning many laungages then he doesn’t fight the bad guy at the end ,this movie wasn’t Batman it was 7
@@dantedlane2stop lying…it wasn’t obvious Riddler was across the street, he tanked the bullets bc he could, without armor he would be more stealthy but it’s only much u can do when 15 ppl are firing at u, and he literally did figure out the Spanish, Riddler did the Spanish wrong on purpose and Batman figured it out and thought Riddler didn’t make mistakes but Riddler made the mistakes on purpose
I would argue it's a good mystery film......until the ending where someone in the executive suite possibly said "But isn't this a Superhero movie? Shouldn't there be mandatory large action set piece?" Of which, someone should've went "No, this is the one hero that has the monicker of 'World's Greatest Detective' so that's not required". I will say the fact that Bruce essentially does not exist was the point. This is a Batman who is entirely consumed by the ego purposely because he believes "Bruce" to be useless. Only for him to make more headway each time he strips off more of the Batman and begins to approach the angle as Bruce.
I think the thing that undermines the plot of the Batman as a whodunit is that, unlike in Se7en, we know who-dun-it from the very beginning and so there is no real sense of mystery, and the mystery of the Riddler's identity for me was not a working substitute for the pay-off
Well, we knew it was the Riddler. But we didn't know who he was. And the police and Batman didn't know who the Riddler was underneath the mask, or why he was killing. I think the only mistake they made was making the Riddler go after criminals. He should have attacked more innocent people so that we don't sympathize with him.
@@nerychristian no that’s not the problem, the problem is the entire script is bad. Matt Reeves clearly didn’t know what story he wanted to tell. Very messy script.
@@damiantirado9616 I'm sure he did know what story he wanted to tell. And many people liked the movie. I wouldn't call it a messy script. Compared to the last few Marvel movies, The Batman is a masterpiece.
@@nerychristian bro marvel movies have always been the same. Dumb fun. The Batman was a movie that took itself too seriously even tho the plot was stupid and the script badly written.
I agree with most of these points, but while plot armor can be done right, I feel like, plot armor or not, Batman takes to many hit in this film. So much so, that it can often not feel like Batman in the first place. Batman is, more often than not, a stealthy hero. Its kind of the point to his whole character. He's not Superman or Wonder Woman, he's just human, so to make up for that he often tries to avoid fist fights entirely or risk getting shot. And when he does get into fights, the goal is to not take damage at all. He has a long night ahead of him, it'd suck to have to feel the punch of the first guy for all of it. Batman, in a fight, is about swift and effective takedowns. No time wasted. No energy squandered. A good example of this is in the Arkham games. Batman's first approach is about staying high or staying low, but most of all, staying unseen. His armor, in those games, can take a hit, but just because it can, doesn't mean he should risk it and, after all, it won't hold up forever. Batman in the Arkham games, like any normal human being, tries his best to avoid getting shot, with or without armor. He only fights when he has to and when he does, he's quick and calculated. He aims for joint and tries to break bones, cause its effective. He's often surrounded and its important to take the first guy down as quickly as possible as to move onto the next before getting overrun. And again, even in a fight, Batman tries to take the guns away from the criminals before they shoot him, instead of waiting until after they open fire to then punch them in the face. I liked the film, and while I can admit it failed at Bruce Wayne, Catwoman wasn't needed and the Riddler was all over the road, I also believe it failed at capturing Batman.
Arkham Bruce is prime Bruce. This is year 2 Bruce, pissed off and young. So yes he should be reckless with how he fights and get hit. Because he's being stupid and makes mistakes.
I agree with you. It would have been nice to see more scenes where Batman uses the shadows to sneek into places. The only time they use the shadows is in the beginning of the film. I would have like to have seen Batman sneek into a building while collecting clues. Or maybe use the darkness to take out someone with a batarang.
@@nerychristian Oh ya, I would've loved to see a batarang. Now that you mention it, he hardly used any gadgets in this film. Another misstep if you ask me.
@@iamedmund1374 I'm awares, and in that he's pissed off, makes mistakes, doesn't know everything, and charges in all the time unless the player wants to go stealth. But the cinematics themselves he charges in. He even yells at alfred. Something prime Bruce never would do.
I agree with your review and would like to add my 2 cents on the ending. The real problem that I have with the ending is that it seems to invalidate all the investment of the previous acts. The riddler seems to change character and the film ends on a note suggesting that what batman was doing, stopping criminals and investigating the murders and chasing the truth, was misguided and immature and helping people directly is what he should have been doing all along, which kind of destroys the point of watching the film to begin with, a point that is exacerbated by its long runtime.
Isn't that the same argument that 'progressives' have been making the last few years in media? Saying that if really wanted to help Gotham he would just give his money to the poor and stop being Batman? Isn't that even used in the most current "White Knight" run? There seem to be people who think that just throwing money at people will stop all crime which is just a childish view of the world.
When you hear a riddler goon say that "he's vengeance" on top of the catwalk batman looks at him and you can see the gears turning in his head that he's been misguided. He isn't like them this is him coming to that realization. This is batman becoming what he was meant to be. Gothams savior. That is bigger than his personal vendetta. I don't agree that it destroyed the first 2 acts.
@@liquidocelot4885 But Batman IS vengence. That's why the movie is so freaking stupid. It's trying to redefine Batman into something that he's not. Batman is not hope, that's Superman. When anyone tries to do a Superman movie that darkens him, even a shade, everyone is out for blood but this movie tries to make Batman hopeful and the masses lap it up like it's milk and honey. What the hell? This is the kind of thing that is making me, less and less, interested in DC movies.
@@LibraGamesUnlimited the punisher is vengeance. Batman is justice. His unwillingness to kill and his belief in attempting to rehabilitate keep him from being like that goon on the catwalk. He realizes this in that moment. Before it was about his self indulgent thirst for vengeance and to honor his parents. But it's bigger than that. He's bigger than that. It's not necessarily about hope because that's definitely supermans thing I agree with you there. On a more practical level, having public opinion on your side helps and the scenes at the very end show this. He got the child and the mayor out of the rubble in the water along with who was behind them. Paramedics, cops and city officials all watched him carry the little girl to the helicopter. The girl after being strapped into the stretcher still held on to Batman before being air lifted. These are powerful visuals for everyone there. For the record, I like the movie but don't love it. Hopefully I don't give off the impression of championing the film. Just a Batman fan for years.
Catwoman came off as disappointingly shallow, especially regarding her relationship with Batman. Penguin was alright, but not very interesting.. same for Riddler. Turturra's Falcone probably goes down as the most compelling villain
Seeing so many people give Colin Farrell credit for his "good acting" because they "didn't even know it was him" really makes me feel for the spfx makeup team
There were definitely good things about the movie, some in my opinion outright awesome. I loved the dark feel and tone, and that this batman is more of a detective rather than the classic action superheroes we have had by far the most of. The first fight he has he is introduced as someone absolutely terrifying to criminals, and play much more off that, than straight out brawling... And then straight into the bad or outright terrible parts.. Too many occasions where the batman does not play on fear , but runs straight into a gunfight in a nightclub etc. And beats up people with his fists. The ending as mentioned was also a total shit show and badly hurts the entirety of the film. I'll give it a verdict of "meh, but it was decent, and i was mostly entertained at least"
I disagree with the assessment of the third act as from a story perspective, your conclusion is very sound, I think the more pressing idea and the one intended was a character perspective. It's Batman's shift from being a character who is doing everything because of a sense of anger, hatred, and vengeance into one that is doing what he does for the good of the people. The entire movie Bruce had been disregarding people, not caring about deaths, and focusing only on taking the next criminal down and when he hears the line that the Riddler goon says which parallels his first onscreen line in the movie it makes him see that if he doesn't care about people then he is no different than those he fights.
Yeah, yeah, we get the character development. It still doesn't detract from how the bomb plan is terribly out-of-character for this version of the Ridder, terribly contrived and jarringly over-dramatic in its execution, and terribly derivative: how many Gotham-at-the-brink-of-destruction Batman movie 3rd acts are we going to get until they try something new?
@@drzerogi Sure, I totally agree. However, you also can't ignore the character perspective of that act. They already described the plot problems with this act in the video, I felt no need to parrot their argument. I only added that they didn't talk about what this act also did very well. I'm confused about how you didn't get this, I even stated in my original comment that the assessment shown in the video was "very sound". I'm a person that doesn't care as much about the overall plot of a story and really only cares about the characterization of the characters in it. That's not to say plot is not important, just that I care more about characterization.
I really enjoyed the fact he didn’t care about the Bruce Wayne character in most of the film. Him being blind to the potential of Bruce Wayne makes the end more meaningful when he realizes Batman and Bruce Wayne need to be more to truly help Gotham City.
i feel like that entire idea is empty and hollow. and actually degrades Batman's intelligence. this film reduced Batman even lower than ever seen before and people somehow saw it as kool that we see him before he was worth a shit. somehow the police respect him SO FUCKING MUCH that they dont unmask him, and yet he is a juvenile nitwit who hasnt learned the first thing about being Batman yet at the same time... and if you think i'm being emotional, its cause i despised this film. it wasnt needed. we DIDNT NEED ANOTHER FUCKING FRESH START. and as everyone else who has seen it and questioned its intelligence, the last 30 minutes of the film was puke
As much as I know that Rob would absolutely nail the suaveness of regular Bruce, part of me almost wants them to keep the emotionally stunted/possibly autistic angle. For one, it intrigues me... For another, it pisses people off hilariously lololol
Like every other Batman movie, there is no alter-ego, just a singular individual that we see sometimes wearing a bat-costume and beating up bad guys. Putting on a mask to hide your identity doesn't suddenly mean you have multiple personality disorder
@@histguy101it's more that Batman sees himself as Batman and not Bruce Wayne. It doesn't make him a different person, but it does lead him to put less into his life as Bruce Wayne than he does Batman.
I do think The Batman isn’t necessarily a bad film. As someone who really enjoyed it, I actually think it’s great, despite its flaws. But I’m also not opposed to the criticism it receives; it actually helps me to learn the difference between my subjective opinion, and what is objectively true about the film itself. Thanks for making these, because honestly, there’s no such thing as a perfect film.
Like he said in his video, there are ao many versions of batman, so I feel like the older audience that has been through comics, multiple reboots, the video games and the animated series get attached to a version of him that they subjectively enjoy more. Personally I loved this version, and although unpopular, I enjoy a long runtime. That doesn't give me tunnel vision goggles though, I know there's plot holes and the likes in this movie just like all the others. The tone of this movie though felt spot on for what I imagine Gotham to be.
@@tobylerone4285 its two and a half movies smashed into one. Even if I like Pattinson and like several of the action scenes, overall this movie is objectively straight trash
My opinion was that it wasn't without flaws or mistakes, but that it was an interesting approach to Batman by taking a more grounded or realistic take; insofar as you *can* be grounded or realistic about superheroes. I wasn't offended by the movie and found it entertaining, which I think is sufficient for any movie.
I think the soundtrack is beautiful. It's what it should be. Music that compliments the movie, but doesn't overpower it. I don't like movies with "blockbuster" sounding soundtrack. I prefer my melodies to be more subtle.
If anything it was a little too long. By the time of the final fight, I forgot the whole reason of why he was there in the first place and where that place was. Didn't have that problem while watching Return of the King, and I never read that book.
My husband watched it, but I fell asleep, which usually never happens to me during movies. I asked him what was happening in the film, but he didn’t have an answer for me, because nothing was memorable to him.
Batman has been a part of my life since my time growing up in the 90's. This movie left such little impression on me that I would much rather watch Batman and Robin for the shits and giggles than give this film another viewing.
I’m assuming that the composer of The Batman, is also the composer of doctor strange. When Strange gets his cloak and levitates for the first time the score is Emersion breakingly similar to 2009 Star treks main theme. Also the fact that Bruce and Alfred don’t have a relationship throughout the film I always thought was the point. When Alfred gets hurt it forces Bruce to confront his feelings and gives the relationship some life, which in turn encourages Bruce to find a better way to fight the criminal element and give hope and a symbol. This is presumably 1 out of 3 films…they can build on the alred thing too
i've seen this discussion point before. and i would like to counter that its been 40 years since the first Batman film, and the comics been around for decades more. many Batman fans have seen him in the cartoons. DEAR GOD WHY DID THEY FRESH START. WHY do you or anyone else give this shit film credit for degrading and lowering Batman to less, so he can just END UP WHERE HE's BEEN FOR DECADES. absolutely insane ninnies on the writing team.
I really enjoy it, but I think it might be bc I love how Batman's a detective and how dark and miserable Gotham is, and it seems that no movie has captured both of these until now. Also, I love the Riddler, I just wish his endgame had been a bit more logical. Stick to the idea of exposing corruption and maybe have it end where he does a sort of live execution of all of Gotham's elite and Batman has to stop it. Would have made more sense imo.
I havent seen the movie, but there is one thought that came to my mind: Why shouldn't it be possible for Bruce to completely lose himself in the batman persona? Sounds like Bruce is done with his life as a civilian, there is nothing to develop from here. He's gone. Why isn't this a plausible explenation for his 1 dimensional personality? It's a front, and he does the bare minimum to keep it up, because he doesn't give a flying f anymore. Maybe there is more to it, and I have to watch the movie first, but I don't really see a problem with this take on the charakter. He's a lunatic running aroung in a cape, who will never be part of "normal" society ever again, end of story
If you still haven't watched it I suggest watching Batman Hush and Batman Long Halloween Pt 1 & 2. This movie takes elements from those three films and all three were far better and also sheds more light on to why certain things happened in this movie as well as shows the flaws with this movie trying to put about four hours of material into 2 hours whipe leaving out the parts that really made the three films work. This movie will leave feeling like there is supposed to be more to it and that is why. The ending will feel out of place because it's based on a time when Batman and Catwoman had been known each for years and became a couple.
@Chandler Burse maybe so but the film is a poor adaption of several movies combined into one that are adaption themselves. In Long Halloween we see how Bruce and Falcone had a relationship and how he knew Bruce was Batman already. The movies did better at expressing the relationships of characters. Batman and catwoman separated due to a combination of things such as them both being broken people, she wants to have an ending like in the Dark Night Rises but Bruce doesn't want to stop being Batman. It may have its flaws but it shows more depth to the characters. Clearly this Riddler is based off of Hush who knows who Batman is.
@@jjju3 Imho it makes it very clear that he is living the batman life for quite some time before we happen to join him. Maybe the arc is him realizing that he does in fact need a civilian life... I've seen it now btw and it's neither a total fail nor a master piece. Style was insane tho, loved it.
I was really hyped up for this film. Thought sparkly Edward was a decent actor and he is. However, this film was an absolute drag and it's only bright spot perhaps was the cinematography. No Batman film has ever made me fall asleep and this one did! It's the screenplay, writing, near non existent character development, an inept Batman (the character just sucked), and a forgettable villain made this film a tedious chore to sit through.
same. it is a beautiful movie in terms of tone and cinematography, the plot is a bit shaky, and the third act was unnecessary and boring. but I don't think it was overlong, I found it an absolute treat to watch for three hours, I never got bored, partially because of Dano's acting, partially because of the cinematography. the plot was good enough, and even though there are a few plot holes and some parts just don't make sense, it was a decent enough plot that overall worked really well for the film.
From what i get from those won’t don’t like it and that did share there opinion , is that it’s not enough pEw PEw too much investigation. Yeah in short they never read a Batman comic or even understand the animated series ( can’t blame them they were kids ) , in short you regular consumer who just shut off there brain with blockbuster but also those who think elaborate narrative and spandex maniac is pretentious and unholy.
@@JoeJoe-nb3lt Literally the opposite. If you loved this movie, you are incapable of thought. I watched it once and can cite literally dozens of plot holes and inconsistencies that fans of this movie didn’t even notice. I was laughing throughout the entire movie because the script was so obviously broken it felt like a Steven Seagal movie. Those of us who were paying attention realized how dumb it was. Everybody else liked it
@@JesusChristsDick then state those dozen plot hole instead of being snarky about it. You just another edgy contrarian nothing to see here. The underdog who is hated because he tells “THe TRuTh”. Pathetic need to feel different and unique.
I wish you would honesty and frankly state what you thought the point of the film was? Because your review made me think you missed it or had already decided "this is a basic super hero film so I get it" before watching it, which made you not at all get the film. I think you put the film into a box which made you miss a lot.
What I needed in this film was to know who Bruce Wayne was, to know why he cared about doing what he did, to know why his family remotely mattered (or didn't matter) to him, anything like that. All we got in the whole three hours of runtime was that Thomas Wayne had a relationship with Falcone...but not Bruce. Thomas was a rich man whose actions could be seen in connection to the Riddler's background and motivation...but not Bruce. Batman's existence has impact on any and all of Gotham City...but not Bruce's. Any of the runtime that was wasted on Selina's shallow character (and motivation behind her one shallow line) could have shown us anything about who Bruce is. Any of the runtime wasted on Batman stood in a room staring at things while other people stood and stared at him staring at things while Gordon stared at Batman staring back at them...you get the point...could have gone into telling me why I remotely cared about any of these characters besides, unfortunately, Riddler. And if I don't see anyone I like in your story other than the villain, why should I ever root for your story's hero? This all leads me to say the runtime wasn't too long on its face, but the story did not justify its use. And to add insult to injury, it culminates a rushed ending that showed me why the film doesn't want Batman to be Batman, it wants him to be Superman, because it reframes everything he did before as being like the Punisher, inspiring people who'll find mercenaries on internet forums to blow up seawalls. For as seriously as this film touted itself, that was somehow goofier than Batman Returns. (And it also got me to stop rooting for the villain, so now I'm left rooting for no one. Thanks, writers!) As it stands...to me, the film kinda sucks. So much talent behind the camera, and even on the screen...but it was lacking in any aspect not created on set. There are ABSOLUTELY worse Batman films, I'm not putting this below either Schumacher film. But this is a world I'm already sure I don't want to see more of. And no amount of promises of the Joker (played decently by Mr. Druig Sucks himself) will persuade me there.
The story they wanted to tell (slow paced, lots of filler, small scale for the most part) was better suited for streaming show. 3 hours should deliver some epic stuff, this movie is a boring waste of time.
@@jbbrolicI kinda have a pretty rough time watching any scene beyond those action scenes and anytime I got invested in the plot it just shows me how weak the plot really is most of the times and also how blank some scenes are. It really is boring seeing Batman staring a kid and seeing characters staring at each other. Imo the movie feels like is trying to be not only Sev7n but also Blade Runner 2049. Which it kinda ruins for the character of Batman.
I had many problems with this movie but the thing that destroy the movie for me was the scene when batman saw riddle's video. Why did riddler post his evil master plan on the internet? Why did riddler record his house, his face and the outside area of where he lived? He basically show his address on the internet for everyone to see before he delivered himself to the police. How does riddler only has 500 followers in his website even so he has been talked about in every news station for being a terrorist? And how did he not get himself banned? How did nobody called the law enforcement after seeing his videos? How did anyone not caught riddler at this point? It doesn't matter if this website was made in the dark web because they would have still got himself caught by the FBI regardless.
He only had 500 followers because that was not a regular website. It was a private blog he created. It only attracted some mentally disturbed people. Maybe the Riddler joined an online forum and started recruiting others
@@nerychristian Even if what you're saying is true you can't tell me that out of all the people who visited the website not one person called the law enforcement after seeing a well known terrorist trying to destroy Gotham city.
@@nerychristian Betrayed him? The people who follow or visited the website are anonymous. How the hell would riddler know the person who called law enforcement if he doesn't have a single clue about it.
In a detective noir themed Batman film shouldn’t it primarily focus on his Matches Malone persona and him establishing his black market under connections then coming across a grande plot. Making the build up to him donning a fully realized bat suit as a result the needs presented by the strangeness of the case.
@C Sorgini Why no? Know one ever tries to show him realistically establishing himself within Gotham’s underworld, they just jump to him fully established and complete with full on cosplay fetish all around. If they really wanted detective noir why not leave the camp for the climax of the film and focus more on the less then legal detective work. Which would be a good way to develop his lines in the sand, along with why Gotham needs a Bogeyman vs. a better funded police force.
That sounds like too much to fit in a movie format. It could make a good television series, or perhaps miniseries, where they would have a greater luxury of time for that story to develop. I'd certainly enjoy watching that.
To be honest, i kinda like this movie. Well, i must agree that the short amount of fighting/action scenes are a bit disappointing. i truly Love the detective plot of the movie.the riddler design is actually kinda accurate to real life criminals unlike those weird goofy Costumes that riddler wears.i also kinda like how they depicted gotham city.they show how crime active gotham was and how The only thing that they truly fear is batman.overal i give this movie a 9.8/10
At the end of the day for me, I feel like it wasn't a horrible film, but it definitely was a horrible batman movie. I did genuinely feel that there were a few things in this film where if you were to just read the scene as a sentence, no Batman fan would agree that should happen. For example. "Batman walks up to a nightclub and rings the doorbell to gain access." If you have any knowledge of this character, it feels like that sentence simply shouldn't fly. It wasn't played ironically, it wasn't played for comedy and it didn't need to happen, yet it did. Another example. "Batman revs the engine of the batmobile to intimidate criminals and stalls out the engine." Like... why would you ever write Batman doing that? What does that accomplish? I do agree that the ending was a huge factor in my dislike of this film, because, as I said in my comment of "Dick's" video, it very much cheapened everything that came before it. The movie being billed as a detective movie, laying out a bunch of clues for you to follow and then ultimately having all those clues lead absolutely nowhere only to reveal bombs in vans and dudes with guns was extremely underwhelming and just made me stop caring. I also felt like there was a lot of "The main characters are perceived as competent only because everybody around them are insanely inept." During the climax when the "dudes with guns" are shooting at people in the arena, I could only think... are none of the police capable of returning fire on these guys? Sure the shooters had a positional advantage and all, but law enforcement can't even make an attempt to retaliate? Then there's the scene where Batman dramatically... grapples onto an electrified device suspended above a pool of water and cuts the wire to fall into the water below... ((Why? Why did he do that rather than just grapple himself down? Also... apparently the electrified device suspended above water that the director clearly emphasized apparently isn't an issue at all?)) ...to "save" a bunch of civilians by leading them out of the stadium. I was left wondering what exactly he provided to them that they didn't already have? A light source? He didn't clear any rubble or carry any people out, he simply lit a flare and people followed him. Did nobody have a phone with a flashlight on it? Was literally nobody else capable of producing a light and doing the exact same thing? There was also way too much of the movie being inconsistent with logic or physics. Batman is shown being stunned by gunfire, but takes a bomb to the face and is only knocked unconscious, or crash lands into a bus at high speeds and literally walks it off. The Riddler's plan basically comes to complete fruition, yet he acts like Batman foiled his plot. A man is killed in an explosion and Batman is on scene and knocked unconscious, but Batman is not restrained, detained, demasked, or taken for medical treatment, he is brought to the police station and surrounded by cops who stare at him for hours and wait for him to wake up. The last thing, I promise, that bothered me is just how emo Bruce Wayne was. The scene with him shirtless and barefoot, spray painting clues across his dining room with angsty hair was the most cringe thing I think I've ever watched. Just why? Why is your shirt off? Where are your shoes? Comb your damn hair, and why for the love of god are you spray painting all of this across your living room when pen and paper fucking exist? It was one of the things I knew would be in the movie when I heard Pattison was going to be Batman, and I don't care what you say, I guarantee that scene wouldn't have been there if he wasn't. I can only imagine the scene written as "Batman writes down a bunch of clues about his parents death" and Pattison came on set with a shit eating grin and was like "Watch this", and "improvised" that scene to be that way. It's like, if you were to cast Jean Claude Van Damme in a film, no matter what character he's portraying, you know he's going to insist that there's a scene where he does the splits and shows off his bulge. Likewise, if you cast Robert Pattison in a film, you know you're going to get at LEAST one insanely cringe emo scene. It's probably literally in his contract. In fact, I take it back, this WAS a horrible film, not just a horrible Batman film. It wasn't just the portrayal of the titular character that bothered me, it was just bad filmmaking. There were too many inconsistencies. Too many things happened that were nonsensical just for the sake of having an unearned moment or for forcing the plot in a direction that could only happen if characters made completely illogical decisions, or if they were portrayed as absolute incompetent morons. Also, for the record, YES. I am drunk while writing this, but so be it.
I actually liked the Movie! Just watched Yesterday. It's not as Epic as the Nolan ones, but it was actually decent. It seemed a bit rushed and i hated Catwomans Performance, but the Twilight Dude was way better as i expected.
One thing you said that doesn't fit.The riddler tried to bring down the batman.Didnt seem that way.He even said as much.Riddler thought he was helping.
Am I the only that understands Bruce Waynes character is supposed to be bland? Yes, he’s got little to no personality but that’s no accident. Bruce is entirely enveloped in the Batman persona because that’s who he truly is in his mind. At this point in time he’s younger and angrier. The Bruce Wayne persona is intentionally written “blandly” because Batman at this point in his career sees no point in it. He literally states this to Alfred in the beginning part of the movie after he returns to the cave after the death of the mayor. It’s really not a hard concept to grasp, I picked it up easily why is no talking about this
The movie sucked but I agree. I had no problem with Bruce Wayne's character cause I knew what they were trying to do. The BIGGEST problem to me was Robert Pattinson as Batman. IT DOESN'T WORK! Matt Reeves Batman is a limped dicked version of Batman. I don't find Robert Pattinson terrifying or cool.
I highly agree with you i actually think this is one of the best batman movies ive aeen as it explores the beggining of the batman peraona and the struggle with the bruce wayne persona and its accurate to the comics aswell 😅
@@foxynie.5861 It's a L I M P D I C K E D Batman movie. If you're going to make a hard boiled Batman film, it should be H A R D C O C K E D - THROBBING! A VEINY COCK OF A FILM!! FULLY ERECT!! Right at the edge of busting all sorts of nuts! At least 12 nuts per minute. Not this shriveled up, soft dicked, non-menacing Batman film. Foh
Notice the 3 instances of his cold relationship with Alfred: "you're not my father" (not exact quote), "you're not a Wayne" (cuff links), and "you lied to me" (accusation regarding Thomas Wayne). It's not a 1,2,3 presto chango either. You can see how Bruce feels no remorse for disrespecting Alfred at first by not listening to him (not his father). Then with the cuff links, he realizes he was wrong to say what he said (trying to hurt alfred), yet still does not apologize. Bruce loves Alfred all the way through of course, but it shows when Alfred almost died (Bruce is lucky Alfred did not die without him apologizing for how he acted). But even after that, he accuses Alfred of being a liar as he awakes and is happy to see him. Alfred of course, like a good father figure, loves Bruce at all times and The Batman becomes more so Bruce Wayne.
If a caring relationship had been shown early on with Alfred, including Bruce stating he would never put Alfred in danger by his crime fighting, there would have been more emotional heft in the hospital conversation and some character development to make Bruce question his life choice, and then perhaps double-down on being a loner so as not to risk those he cares for - which could support his decision not to pursue his feelings for Cat Woman. I'm more of a Marvel fan than DC, but I felt The Batman was a clear step in the right direction for DC; more grounded, 'darker' and without the (often overused) Marvel brand of humour. However I did feel the pacing needed to be tighter and they could have cut 30-40mins. Putting aside the pacing and the narrative, for pure 'chills' then the approaching footsteps in the dark and the start-up of the Batmobile were standouts that have stayed with me.
I actually enjoyed the movie a lot. Definitely the best movie of the year so far. But I agree that the movie could have been 20 mins shorter. It should have ended shortly after they arrest the Riddler in the cafe. They could have saved the other action scenes for the sequel- after the Riddler teams up with Penguin and Joker. I actually enjoyed the final action scene in the sports arena. But I think the part where Batman cuts the electrical cable and falls into the water, would have been a great ending to a third film. It would have been very emotional and impactful to Batman actually die while trying to save the people.
Bruh you could literally cut like an entire hour from that movie and it wouldn't change the narrative one bit. There's a lot of lingering shots that just don't need to be there. Considering what other films there are from big budget studios this year saying its the best so far ain't saying much
You got it wrong. He can't afford to lose Alfred as we saw he relies heavily on him. And your argument on not involving him makes zero sense considering it wasn't Batman who caused the explosion. Alfred got hurt because he was related to Bruce Wayne. It had nothing to do with Batman. So the scenario you made up is frankly nonsensical and awful.
I thought it was a solid film. I absolutely loved the visuals, they did an amazing job at creating the world of Gotham, the performances across the board were solid to great (people are being too hard on Kravitz imo). But the story/mystery itself I didn't find that compelling and there were a few moments that confounded me (Batman waiting until the last moment before a bomb goes off for example), the riddles weren't impressive (the el ratalada one I even found quite bizzare but not in a good way), the music at times is a little too repetitive and I think everyone unanimously agrees the Joker scene should have seen the chopping block . But I like what Matt Reeves is aiming for here. The idea of Bruce Wayne being an introvert who is indistinguishable from Batman is a great idea. The sequels have potential to be fantastic.
I love the movie too. I thought it was almost flawless. Except for the silly part where he falls off the bus and doesn't get seriously injured. I also would have like to see at least one scene with Bruce Wayne attending a social event, and smiling and being charming. That would have made the contrast of the emo character more impactful.
@@nerychristian My take is that at this stage, he doesn't see the point in doing so. In fact, this movie could be taken as the origin of the Bruce Wayne persona as he learns its importance.
Not being a comic book fan, but enjoying (some) comic book to film adaptations, I got sick of the re-invention fad that took over the world a few years ago. I.E. Superman, Spiderman and worst of all the numerous Batman films. But as I see it, Bruce Wayne is a Millionaire/Multi-Millionaire/Billionaire, (depending on which iteration you watch), Man-about-town buisiness man who also runs/owns hospitals for the poor and orphanages, (Adam West and Michael Keaton both showed this side of him), being an orphan himself he can empathize with them. From what I can see, they don't even touch on this.
That’s the point? The entire point is that Bruce is so set on being batman that he forgets his core values. Don’t blame a movie just because you don’t understand.
@@ice.man95 The reason he became Batman is because of his core values. To protect the down trodden and those who can't defend themselves, and rid his beloved Gothem City of crime and corruption.
@@wolflordbradley7353 in Batman begins it’s almost like he has been Batman for a few years and makes basically no mistakes. According to the comics Batman made many mistakes in his first two years. But i will agree that he is more reckless in this movie in comparison to the comics.
The point about (in Multiple Personality Disorder terms) Batman being the host personality as opposed to an alt, is something that has gone backwards and forwards with the character for a very long time. MPD has been a particularly strong interest of mine, and based on what I have read, I would suspect that neither Bruce NOR Batman would in fact be the host personality. The ostensible reason why MPD happens in the first place, is because the host personality is subjected to sufficiently intense trauma, that defragmenting and decentralising is the only way it can psychologically survive. The child who actually saw his parents get shot, as a singular entity, either would have ceased to exist completely, or would have been pushed sufficiently far down into the subconscious, that the newly formed collective would not need to worry about being re-exposed to the memory before it was able to process it. The memory usually fragments, and different pieces are held by various alts who are generally fairly close to the age the host was when the trauma occurred. If hypothetically there is a single personality which has the entire memory and otherwise knows everything, then you can be sure that it would be VERY securely guarded. There is an element of standardisation with the personalities that form in many cases, though. Batman would likely be known internally as the Protector, and as tends to be the case with real world governments and militaries, he would have rather a lot of authority within the internal collective. "Bruce" (particularly in this film's case) is essentially the social interface; a mask which likely has very little of its' own substance, by design. Its' purpose would be to allow the other various alts to present the illusion of a monolithic personality to outsiders, while speaking to them.
You're definitely onto something here. Batman is a defense mechanism, Wayne is a coping mechanism. One designed to protect, the other to convince his peers that he's "normal." All the while, there's an inner child that is wounded, scared, and isolated. Never healing, never overcoming, never truly granted closure.
In regard to the Batman-Bruce dynamic, I feel like a lot can be said about the lack of a Bruce Wayne character. Batman is born in large part because Bruce's development was stunted by the trauma of his parents' deaths. He's still an angry child, putting himself back into that situation, but with the tools and skills to overpower it. It makes a lot of sense that Bruce would avoid living in the shoes of "Bruce Wayne" because that role is too painful for him. It's easier to be the unfeeling Batman, but with his character arc in the film, its possible that he'll spend more time evolving into that Bruce Wayne role. I totally agree with Dick about the suit though, I prefer a batman more reliant on skills than fantastical technology.
Yeah, except you can buy the suit on amazon for about $16K, then the fly suit for another $20K. It's not hard to imagine a billionaire developing this a little further...
I thought the same thing in response to Platoon’s critique here. It makes for an interesting change in the Bruce/Batman dualities. Rather than Bruce evolving into include Batman, Batman evolves to include Bruce.
You know how I know it REALLY didn't deliver? With The Dark Knight, I can watch it any day of the week. I remember getting the DVD and watching it all the time. I still get the itch every few months. With this, I actually haven't watched it once since I bought the 4K disc. I just haven't felt the drive, and yes....the difference between a 3 hour time commitment vs a 2.5 hour time commitment is a big difference maker.
I watched both very recently, and I can say that The Dark Knight is almost the perfect action thriller. It thrives way more on building tension and exploding it with amazing action. It’s overall more fast-paced and watchable for me. The Batman is more of a low key vibe that you kind of live in for 3 hrs. I think the style of TDK is just more re-watchable. It’s also just simply amazing… no other movie is as re-watchable and enjoyable in my eyes. Idk if any Batman movie, or many other movies period, can surpass that quality of TDK.
I think what i like about this film is the riddler essentially wins and his plans happen and batman looses even though he wins the last battle ultimately this film sets him up for failure which is more true of the comics . Batman looses
1. Bruce and Batman are not seperate characters. Yes there is a persona that batman puts on that goes by the name Bruce wayne, but the motivations and person inside are still the same. All characterization given to one, is given to both. If Bruce wayne acts cocky, that is also characterization of batman as he is making the decision to act cocky in order to perpetuate a ruse, showing his priorities and motivations. If instead he decides to be a recluse and not put on a show that still characterizes Batman, but in a different way. Now it shows is priorities and motivations in a different stage. This is not a flaw in the film 2. 12:59. I disagree, it stuck in my mind, I could hum it to you 3. Bruce is actually shown with scraping and bruising after the squirrel suit scene 4. The film being "boring" is pretty subjective 5. 21:48 What exactly is your criticism here? Why is it lazy writing? 6. You're arguing that it's too much like se7en, but also you think it should've copied the heroes journey from se7en? 7. Your argument at the end about Alfred and Bruce's relationship is so contradictory its downright silly. You say that the film doesn't show interest in the relationship; no, yhe film highlights that Bruce doesn't show interest in the relationship. It isnt focused on because Bruce isn't focusing on it. Also calling "you don't know what you have until you've lost it" a trope is like calling characters feeling sad about a loved ones death a trope. These are very common ideas for all people especially when it comes to loved ones being hurt or killed. It's not a movie trope it's an almost universal phenomenon in the real world 8. When you talk about catwomans motivations being shallow and her having many contrived moments, I need elaboration and examples to agree or disagree, this is too broad. 9. You continuously say how horrifically horrible the ending is but only really talk about how the riddlers plan is illogical. Need more examples Overall, most of your criticisms are subjective (points 2, 4 and 6), too broad and require elaboration (points 5, 8, and 9) or just factually incorrect (1, 3 and 7).
Just on point 6, it had the window dressings of Se7en but not the structure, which is what made Se7en such a great film to watch. Same goes for the Zodiac. Reeves made Riddler look like the Zodiac killer, but the riddles weren’t nearly as cryptic. There’s a huge contradiction in Batman being able to solve a Zodiac-style cypher without even looking at it, but not even guessing that a rat with wings might mean bat. Reeves was only “inspired” by Se7en and Zodiac in the most superficial ways
Agree with every word you’ve saved me the trouble of typing it myself. And can someone buy a fucking dictionary and learn what OBJECTIVE actually means and stop applying that word to SUBJECTIVE film criticism.
I have three issues with this film. It's too long. The second ending should have been scrapped. Batman would have found the Riddler earlier if he had investigated the angle of the photos taken of the Mayor leaving the club. There was that great car chase with no pay off at the end. The Penguin waddled away free.
Wasn't the underdeveloped nature of Bruce part of the point? Bruce Wayne was a man on the back burner; the mantle of the Batman was occupying his full attention, as vengeance was how he thought he could do the most, and Bruce was basically relegated to the token public appearance. It's only with his visit to the prison that he gets what vengeance really is, and by the end of the film has decided to be justice. Then when it comes to Alfred, the scene that I always think about when reflecting on the film is him sitting there trying to solve the Riddler's riddle like a cryptic crossword in the morning while catching Bruce up on his day schedule. That right there established a lot of their relationship. He was there to help Bruce wherever he needed it, as Bruce or as Batman, without needing to be asked nor thanked. Like that's not even the scene that comes to mind when I think of Alfred, but the whole damn movie, that's the scene I remember first.
I thought that was the point too. He ultimately became a recluse as Bruce Wayne, isolating himself and hyperfocusing on his revenge mission. His inability to catch his parents' murderer perpetuates this obsession and leaves him no time to develop his cover life or much of a personality throughout his upbringing. As Batman in his early years, I would suspect Alfred would be the voice of reason and pragmatism. Telling Bruce he needs to strive for a balance and that obsessing on this never-ending mission will consume what's left of him. Bruce takes it in and doesn't talk about it, but by the third act he should start seeing the practicality or even tactical use of having a societal face to further his goals. They could use it as groundwork for a sequel even, reflecting on the consequence of vengeance, the difference between justice and revenge, the duality of being a force for good.
Batman did use guns originally, back in the Golden Age of comics. Killed people too. Hung a man once with a rope from the bottom of the Batplane, with one panel showing the guy tugging at the rope around his neck and the next his hanging corpse. The Batman mellowed somewhat from his early days. As such, Snyder's Batman was somewhat of a reminder of what Batman was than a departure from him entirely.
On the subject of Hans Zimmer being 'an overrated composer,' Zimmer is not as much a composer as he is a producer. He usually brings other musicians in to compose music for his scores. What makes Zimmer an outstanding producer is how he innovates and tries to push beyond sounds he has already created. Yes, Zimmer repeats himself a lot (and his acolytes like Steve Jablonsky crib a lot of his stuff too, and vice-versa), but compared to someone like John Williams, whose work has mostly stagnated since Attack of the Clones, with a few exceptions here and there, Zimmer has been at the forefront of musical trends in film since his work on The Lion King. Zimmer tries new things and fuses different genres and styles. That's what makes him remarkable and sets him apart from traditional composers like Williams and Giacchino.
Yes he lost his parents and it gave him his moral centre. He hates injustice and guns . And murder. And he cares about his families legacy or his noble obligation ( pardon my French again) to protect the city he is essentially the prince of . Sound like a moral centre to me . You would think maybe for character growth or realism instead of emo , you might have him be an alcoholic or drug or promiscuous habits which is common to self medicate or distract from the pain inyil a moment of clarity ?
Fuck are you talking about "He hates guns." Batman originally CARRIED A GUN. He hates KILLING. In the 1960s he decided to stop carrying a gun because he wanted to focus on bringing criminals to JUSTICE. Read the comics before you start pontificating on the damn character.
@damiangryphon6349ruce Wayne is better than Tony stark and predates him. Tony Stark is a rip off of BW. Batman usually only plays at being a lush who sleeps around. He generally only fakes drinking (and has since the 30s) so he can stay fit. Sleeping around is pretty much the only thing he actually does. Playing a little scamp to seem harmless and like he's self medicating while he's real coping method is batman and his mission. I think Bale was the best representative of both Brucie and batman
I didn't personally liked it, but I'm not a fan of American superheroes so it was definitely not for me, but I freaking loved the 2000s Dark Knight trilogy, I still watch those movies from time to time they were so entertaining even as not a fan of superheroes. I wish the had followed that Robin cliffhanger from the 3rd movie
My biggest beef with that film was that church explosion; not only did he walk away from AN EXPLOSION TO THE FACE unscathed, but he didn’t even make an attempt to avoid it. He didn’t step back, turn away, or even cover his face. Just let the phone blow up point blank.
It's one of those purely flashy explosions dont you know.. It was a horrible scene, yet another.. I am surprised the bad guy could actually breach the walls to let in the water after being unable to do any damage with a bomb like that.
The Batman is a fine film, but it’s not the best Batman film. I still think The Dark Knight Trilogy is the best and Christian Bale is the best Bruce Wayne/Batman. I also legit love The Dark Knight Rises the best of the trilogy, especially since I saw the previous two films in the theater just before seeing the midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises and I don’t see the various problems people have with it, perhaps seeing them all back to back helped me see the story so clearly, but that’s another thing all together. I think a big problem that stops The Batman from being above fine for me is the writing. A big thing is Bruce Wayne barely acts like Bruce Wayne. We see a glimpse of the real Bruce Wayne in a couple of scenes with Alfred, which primary take place when Alfred’s in the hospital, but for the most part he’s practically Batman all the time but without putting the voice on. I know Bale has received criticism for his Batman voice, but in the last two films they put an effect on his voice that made it more dark as he couldn’t naturally make his Batman voice darker without losing it as he did for Batman Begins, though that voice wasn’t as strenuous and he basically kept his bat voice the same throughout the trilogy, but altered to a degree in the last two films. Robert Pattinson did a very good job with the acting, so my critiques of the character are not his fault but the writing and likely even the direction to an extent. I think the acting is very good and the film itself is made very well, but the writing does hurt it. I’ve rewatched it since I got the 4K Blu-Ray and I still enjoy it fine, but I’m able to see even clearer as to where the writing needed improving, such as Batman solving the riddles so easily. I believe I had that thought after leaving the theater, but I guess since I did enjoy it overall I sort of excused it, but that shouldn’t have been something he aced the moment he reads or hears a riddle. He should have taken a bit longer to think what the solution was at times. It’s a well made film, a fine film, but I don’t give it a 10/10 after seeing it in the theater and then rewatching the film.
Mediocre is the new great. I think that sums it up. I was happy to see a film that wasn't dripping with gender politics (only that little snippet about white men) and wasn't a CGI overload like the Marvel movies. Pattinson isn't a good Bruce Wayne and his mopey attitude is just too distracting to make it even a decent portrayal. Overall I think fans have been starved for quality content for so long they see anything a little above average as the second coming of Christ. Unfortunately they are too willing to overlook its shortcomings.
I ain't t apologizing 3 hours of this Batman...I finally forgave Robert Pattinson for twilight And the Riddler was awesome. I love this movie and I love you all Thanks for your critique yo haha love opinions and it ain't like you're wrong
There's a lot of problems, but it's my personal favorite Batman film. Just love the style, and the message of the story overall. It almost feels like an indirect, spiritual sequel or answer to 2019's Joker. The first fight feels like a nod to the subway scene in Joker, like it's saying "this is what would've happened if Batman was around". But it takes the thought further and, with the Riddler taking Arthur's place in the vengeful villain role, it shows that a character like Batman might have led a character like Joker in the wrong direction.
They leaned heavy into the Detective side and only really threw out the full Super Hero stuff for the end. I didn't mind that and there was enough action throughout to keep that itch scratched. Even Shovel Face managed to do a good younger Batman
I personally enjoyed the film. I loved how they portrayed a young batman, and I really liked the depiction of Bruce Wayne, he hasn’t learned how to be Bruce Wayne yet, he still just wants to be Batman.
I feel like the argument against the armor being too high-tech could have been used for any first Batman or Ironman suit. We haven't been given more than a movie’s worth of this new Batman. By what standard is it too high-tech?
Here's a question I have about The Batman. in the scene where Batman and Selena find Selena's roommate's body. they find her in a big bag in one of the villains( Falcone's?) car. This appears to be about three days after she was murdered. Were they driving around with her body for three days? If so. Yuck. that would smell horrible. If not, did they have the body stored away( in a freezer or something) but just happened to have her in the car that night? If that, were they going to dispose of the body that night, but had to stop at this crime meeting first?
As I understand - they were clearing the place, so take all the money and body that was stored probably in some frige. Also not sure when exactly she was murdered.
@@firevex715 Like a lot of things in the movie, its muddled. I thought that they were just at a meeting. The events that transpire between her being killed and found made it seem to me about three days, but, since the days in this movie were just about as dark as the nights , once again, its muddled.
It was similar enough to be an homage but cmon, it was different enough to avoid being derivative. The Riddler was exposing a corrupt government but was propelled too extremism by a lust for revenge, Spacey in Se7en was exposing a corrupt humanity as he saw it and the cops allowed him to manipulate them in the end. One was a superhero detective story that somehow felt rated R but wasnt because of clever shots, set design and use of sound. Se7en achieved that effect conventionally with an R-rating and very well done, grotesque visuals. Batman had a romance sub-plot. Se7en had a buddy cop dynamic.
Its not nearly as good a film as the initial praise. Its not a disaster, but its not great. And Batman was never supposed to be a hulking bulletproof tank, its protection but he cannot just shrug off attacks.
Catwoman's costume in this was terrible. I literally could not stop making fun of her mask the entire time. Also her taking on Bruce was a tad laughable lol. At least he wasn't insulted for being a man. It was close though.
I don’t think the film neglected Bruce, I think Batman was neglecting Bruce, and I look to the audio logs and the conversations with Alfred for this conclusion. Alfred in most iterations of Batman, serves to help ground him, to remind him that the public eye is still important, you see this in the dark knight “Bruce Wayne needs to attend that party”, and in this iteration it’s all throughout, as Batman has never loathed being Bruce Wayne more, as in the philanthropic billionaire type that the public assumes him to be. This is also shown in the Nolan films but Batman (real Bruce) doesn’t show his loathsomeness as often, and I don’t think it a stretch for us to see that most of his scenes in public are very much him putting up a front, which also is what pushes Racheal away. The problem is not the writing, it’s Batman’s lack of understanding that yes he must uphold his image
The Batman misses the point the Riddler. The riddler is just a show off know it all with a superiority complex. The Riddler doesn’t care about “vengeance”. Matt Reeves should have done Two-face if he wanted to explore a bad version of Batman’s “vengeance” being out of control. The movie should have been about Sal Marioni disfiguring Dent after Dent almost exposes the Gotham Renewal act. And Dent goes on his rampage as Two-Face against every single person involved.
@@petermj1098 I like your movie plot idea, but the whole reason riddler is doing anything that he does is because of what renewal did to him. he says as much to Batman in his conversation and is implied to be the kid highlighted in the choir.
@@petermj1098 the superiority complex isn’t too valid, as he treats his followers like homies on his stream. It may not be an “accurate” portrayal of the character but that shouldn’t matter as opposed to plot and consistency, the dark knight didn’t have a very “accurate” representation of the joker either and look how it turned out
@@assistanttotheregionalsith8531 Heath Ledger Joker still acted like the Joker and didn’t care about his life and only cared about messing with Batman and making a joke out of Gotham City even if it kills him. The Riddler is supposed to be an evil version of Batman’s intelligence. Edward uses his intelligence to commit crimes as the Riddler while Bruce uses his intelligence to solve crimes as Batman. The riddler only wants to prove he can outwit ‘the world’s greatest detective’ with his crimes and riddles. The Arkham games did a way better job with a modern Riddler while still looking and acting like the character.
I would argue against the Batman having "no" character. He has some. Its subtle but its there which in my opinion is better. At this point there is no Bruce Wayne, he has abandoned that life so of course only Batman really exists. Bruce's absence is the key factor of Batman's character arc. He's detached from society and dedicating himself solely to vengeance disregarding the wider consequences. In his mind, his pain is all that matters because his parents were paragons of the community. He's self absorbed, rude and obsessed. By the end, he grows out of this as he confronts his dark reflection (the Riddler) - like a ghost of Christmas future deterring him from that solipsistic path. Bruce is the part of him that is concerned and mindful about the other people of Gotham - a distinction between justice and vengeance.
I have to disagree with you on the ending because I believe exposing and killing politicians and blowing up a city structure Makes a lot of sense in the mind of a Maniac especially when this takes place on the 5th of November I also believe that Riddler and Catwoman both suffered from a woke ideology Because they were raised as have nots and had a horrible entitled sensibilities But this is what I would expect of characters in a major city with the means to be those type of criminals in these modern times It kind of blows my mind that nobody puts together the 5th of November thing
Overlong, pretentious tosh. The film thinks it's far better than it really is. All style no substance. Monotonous linear storytelling & endless dark rooms / alleys
Its pretty difficult not to get boastful when you have access to one of the most popular comicbook superheroes of all time. I felt for the beacon of hope, the movie was quite too dark when that is indeed a part of Batman and not all of Batman. The cinematography was great, but quality and storytelling for me was pretty predictable for the most part
@@Cognito47 agreed! you know i think the cinematography part has became a bare minimum these days. Like the flop movies also have great cinematography .it is something that most movies do to deviate people's mind from the average substance.
Or you know the movie is far better than your opinion of it. It has all style and even more substance. Linear storytelling is now bad? What? And it’s too dark? Ever heard of noir? Of what a city looks like during THE NIGHT?
It kinda came and went without much fanfare. I didn't see many people talking about it, neither positively nor negatively. One year later, it's like it never existed.
I should preface this by saying that most of what I know about Batman came from growing up with the animated series rather than the comics. I enjoyed the detective aspect of the film. He's supposed to be the world's best detective and that's never really come through in the films. Not that he was the "best" in this, but it was nice to see the shift in focus. And I thought that esthetically, they nailed the film's look. Regarding the ending, I wholeheartedly agree that it was a misstep, but what bugged me most about it was how visible it made Batman at the end. Superman is visible, Spider-Man is visible (pardon the hybrid universe reference), but Batman is supposed to be largely unseen, acting from the shadows. Apart from being a key part of his persona, it's also easier to suspend the disbelief that no one ever recognizes him when no one really ever gets that good of a look at him. But at the end of the film he spends who-knows-how much time helping the wounded, and he's seen in daylight, albeit only dawn. That was a bit of a stretch for me, even if Bruce is less of a public figure in this iteration than he has been in others.
yeah, good observation. the last 30 minutes of the film were such a disaster I hadn't even thought of that. Batman is relatively KNOWN to exist in that criminals get stopped, in that Gordon puts up the bat signal.... but to just have him standing out in the open infront of everyone is an odd move, and as some other video people have been denouncing recently. cameras exist. if your film is set in a time period where they are used and readily available, you have to account for them. Batman in the dark versus out in the open in daylight are the difference between a camera crew getting a blur and having his fucking face in every newspaper after every weirdly solved crime
Iv never really understood the complaints about Pattisons bruce, the story is set as year 2 batman, at this time bruce is still crippled with guilt and throws himself into being batman more then being bruce, he still hasnt learned how to separate the 2 personas and the movie is more about him discovering who batman needs to be, not who bruce needs to be As for the car chase scene batman definitely escilated it into a car chase when he could of delt with penguin and his goons at the warehouse but that to me leads more to his amateurish batman and not making the best decisions to limit damage or casualties, as for the civilians they could of put in a scene where batman acknowledges the damge/possible casualties he caused
i won't say the fanbase hates it with passion, i'd say they hate it apathetically, rather lackadaisically. It just at times lazy, dragging on and on, copying even shots and accentuated batman moments from the previous movie iteration. I would say it would be a perfect entry for a tv show on HBO max with its sluggish pace and tendency to low budget inhouse shooting style. Not that a sluggish pace and low budget inhouse is inherently a merit that qualifies an HBO show, all i'm saying that with its pace and shooting at times it resembles more a tv show rather than a feature film.
This movie was beautifully, unapologetically bleak. It was magnificently horrible to watch. I didn't enjoy it at all, but I thought the time I spent watching it was not wasted. I thought it was a story well told, and I never want to see it again.
I feel like the story doesn't get enough credit for how deep and multilayered it is. On the surface its a pretty great suspenseful "mystery", but peel it back a little and there's so many different facets to the characters that play a part in changing batman. Every single person in the movie is guided by revenge at some level. The riddler is guided by the revenge for what he perceives as him being wronged by the politicians, batman is guided by vengeance for his parents, catwoman is guided by vengeance for her mom, alfred is somewhat guided by vengeance for the waynes,Thomas Wayne was guided by revenge for his wife. All of these people guided by one thing, and at the end of the movie, when the random bad guy #32 repeats the same line that batman used with the "I'm vengeance", you can see how batman realized what was happening. That was the whole point why when catwoman went "you can stop now, you good, it's over" he just kept going. At the end, when he saves the people from drowning its the exact moment he starts doing something beyond vengeance. And then he lights up a flare, signifying him stepping out of the darkness (as he's said at the start he uses as a tool) and entering the light. Another thing is when catwoman says the line about white privileged males and all that, people got all up in arms, and I'd maybe understand that if it wasn't used in such a clever way. First if all, it doesn't come out of nowhere, she's a modern black woman living in a big urban area, of course she's going to use those kinds of buzzwords. But the irony is that she's saying that stuff to the exact kind of person she's talking about. Gordon shows him that there is good in an otherwise completely corrupt legal system. Catwoman shows him that there is good in the otherwise crime ridden and corrupt peasants and plebs on the street level. The black lady that's running for mayor shows him that there's good in an otherwise corrupt political system. Also, the part where, as batman, he goes to the iceberg lounge with complete confidence and fights his way through, but later on in the movie, he goes back, but as bruce Wayne, and this time he's avoiding eye contact, speaks very soft, like he's not comfortable. It's showing that he's very comfortable and confident as batman, but as bruce Wayne, it's almost like he's trying to portray a character. Almost as if bruce Wayne is the mask, and batman is he, himself. Now this could be only me, since there is nothing I love more in writing than deeper meanings and multifaceted scripts, but still, this movie is at the very least, good. In conclusion, 4/10 he didn't say "WHERE ARE THEY!?!?"
@@DoofusChungus the simplest way to put it is that the screenplay is two and a half scripts smashed into one. It’s almost three hours long and yet the entire detective plot is childishly rushed. Because its not one plot but THREE. This film has more false endings than return of the king. For all the many parts of this movie I strongly dislike, the script itself is, by a million miles, the worst offender
@@DarranKern Yet everything has a payoff. And the false endings work because that's what you're expecting, after he beats the riddlers goons, that's where it would've ended, that's where "vengeance" was done, but after that, like I've said before, he chooses to fight for something more, for hope. Any specific examples that you didn't like? Because the script, imo was pretty good, as I detailed in my original post.
@@DoofusChungus literally everything you just said “works” absolutely does not work. Muh “subverted expectations” excuse is some Rian Johnson tier, pseudo intellectual thinking. Especially with the “we added thirty minutes with a tacked on terrorist plot, you know, for hope” even though it’s pointless to the rest of the film. This film does *not* have any themes. Its utterly incoherent. The “did Thomas Wayne murder someone?” Plot was stupid. The falcone plot was the only one that made any sense. The riddler being a thinly veiled allegory for “muh right wing chuds, muh internet nazis, muh unhinged incels” was quite frankly disgusting. Either they’re dysfunctional whackjobs or they’re competent, elite terrorists. You cannot have both. This movie sucked at least 70% of the runtime because of these problems and more. If this film focused on one plot, instead of spreading itself like incompetent slime across at *least* three plots, it would be much better, Instead, it’s obviously been written, rewritten, and re-re-re-re-rewritten at least ten times by at least ten of the talentless hacks at warner brothers, and it totally shows. This is easily the second worst Batman film ever made and its a dumpsterfire. I could write dissertations on every flaw of this mess
The Dark Knight Rises isn't a "piss poor film" as you called it, if it was so many people would have hated that film ... The Dark knight films by Christopher Nolan are consider to be the best Batman films ever ,made , Dark Knight rises was highly praised by fans and critics at the end of the day it comes down to personal opinion.. and NOT fact.
It felt like Detective Comics more than it felt like Batman. It was an interesting twist, but like the video said, horrid writing, cramming too much, should have slowed down and done less with more. Actors were fine.
I agree with Dick. This movie sucked. I also agree with some of your points. Especially in regards to this emo Batman’s personality as “Bruce Wayne”. I never thought of that and I’m glad I listened to this video.
I'm another that's somewhere in the middle on this one. The movie wasn't bad. I liked quite a bit of it... when it got around to do it. It's filmed well, scored well (if not memorable), and overall acted well... though I think it is paced... poorly. Batman spends way too many scenes slowly. And methodically. Stepping. Forward. For. Dramatic. Effect. Once, maybe twice, is fine. But nearly every scene he's not fighting, he just meandering around like a geriatric with who just took his 8th Vicodin. But otherwise, it's good... until after the Riddler is caught. The movie should have ended there, after their little interrogation. That panic moment was probably the best scene in the movie and would have served a fantastic 'but did he know?' moment to end it. But then... then it had go and have a second climax. Like the writers suddenly remembered it's the 2020's and they didn't have a massive fight scene to end their superhero movie, and had to shoehorn in one to tick a box, thus adding 40 minutes of bullshit like the world's longest mid-credits scene. This felt like two movie concepts got mashed into one, and they forgot to edit the second one down to fit. This should have been two movies. There's enough plot here to easily fill two, and you could have the second still be influenced by the first. In their desperate attempt to erase the Snider movies and reboot what could become a new cinematic universe, they actually destroyed the potential for several connected movies. How very DC of them.
I understand preferances and you some guys might just dig slow burning detective type story of Batman who is supposed to be the world's greatest detective, and Gotham being the best itself in The Batman. But a lot of people calling it one of the best and calling it an actual great movie... The detective part really was too slow and Memories of Murder, Fincher movies come to mind and set the standart much higher than this. In the second hour Riddler absolutely vanishes, then comes out with the most boring motivation. A Zodiac and Se7en rippoff. Plus, Gordon is fucking incompetent, Alfred's character having no arc or anything interesting whatsoever. I can give credit to Pattinson's Year One Batman , him being a rookie, him having whole Bruce Wayne the billionaire persona not realized. Catwoman being woke woke me up a bit , otherwise her relationship with bats is far-stretched and awkward. Falkone is pretty neat and Penquin is very good . Those were character problems. What about themes? "Vengeance? No, I will be a symbol of Hope" kinda thing didn't fly. Plotwise , it was too long an unravelling . Again, the detective part was too much for 3 hour movie. Honestly, if it wasn't for mediocre film script and an ok Batman- is-detective script , I would have dearly enjoyed my favourite character's movie. Directing was as expected from Matt Reeves. Too pretentious prolonged shots, amazingly beautiful dark almost lovecraftian world of Gotham . And his work with actors still leaves a lot to be expected. Poor Pattinson got brewed in his Cobainesque gothic dark moody teen type of non-stop presence in all the scenes . Score is on point. Giacchino delivers creepy dark tones to already creepy city, with maybe too overusage of main themes and jumpscare motif. I am not comparing the Batman 2022 to other Batman movies simply because I have to . Different movies and , honestly, Reeves' movie would suffer greatly.
Another point to add about Hans Zimmer; He's A Pirate is outstanding, but I didn't truly begin to appreciate it until other people started covering it, sometimes with completely different instruments. Zimmer's instrument choice unfortunately seems a bit limited, and is mostly restricted to instruments that can only produce lower or deeper notes. I think that is what causes everything he writes to come out sounding growly or gravelly in his own renditions, whereas when other people cover it with different things, it's easier to hear the level of variety that actually is there.
I really enjoyed the first two hours. first time we really saw a 'detective batman" on screen. it was the final 30 min climax that was nolan level ridiculous without the lead up setting up the batman 2 or whatever. first hour and a half is easy an 8 or 9 movie the ending brings it down to just about average for me. still best DC universe film by Farrrr. but that's not hard
I don't think the ending was ridiculous. But it probably was unnecessary. Even though I loved the action scene. I think they could have saved those ideas for the sequel. Maybe make the sequel be about copy cat Riddlers rioting in the city. They made the first movie so intense, with so many different action scenes and cool ideas, that I think it will be difficult for the film makers to top this one.
The bat suit being plot armour is not so smart an argument, in my opinion. Like you said, we see he feels the bullets hit, but why can he take crashing into a large vehicle? Because the armour is very durable. bullet proof, therefore protects from impacts, and on top of that he had his built in flight suit, so the fall and velocity were controlled and reduced in comparison to simply falling off a building and crashing into a vehicle. The vehicle was going in the same direction as Batman, which also reduces the shock. And lastly, the strength of a bullet lies in a lot of force being focused in a small area with an aerodynamic and penetrative tip, while the vehicle was a flat, large surface that distributed the shock across a large area. Now, he does bounce off a few times, but when doing so, the velocity is massively reduced as he travels from one object and direction to the next. Lastly, as he finally goes forward and on to the ground, he is going forward in the same direction as the ground, sliding and rolling, which softens the fall a lot. One technique to fall distances without taking much damage is by rolling as you land, this is a skill you gotta learn in the army and useful in a lot of sports. Some people have survived falling off a plane, skydiving and having malfunctioning parachutes and still being alive after hitting the ground. He even limps away, if that makes you feel better. I wanna say that "Why does he feel the bullets but walks away from hitting that bus?" is only an obvious question if you don't really know what you're talking about, because I feel that was totally survivable, buuuut at the same time I am pretty sure he hit his head pretty bad and that should at least have caused him to be on the ground for a bit longer, if not knocked some of his teeth and maybe nose (although his nose piece is probably armoured too) out of place. For me, the biggest offence was the explosion, how stupid can he be to stand there and stare knowing it was about to go off... and also keep in mind his mouth and eyes were exposed and facing the fire. Perhaps it was so fast that it could not burn him. I remember him having a bunch of scars, so his physical suffering is shown, to an extent, but some blood here and there would have been nice.
Pointing out that this movie is essentially a 7even reboot is an example of why I watch ALL if this guys videos! I literally left the theatre and said… this movie is 7even… almost beat for beat, minus not coming close to the quality of ending.
honestly i tried watching it twice and fell asleep both times. i like the batman movies, both animated and non yet this one didn't hold my attention very well
I liked your partners review better, he is clearly a big batman fan. I really warmed up to this movie after a second viewing. The message of dark vs light and hate vs love is fantastic.
I thought The Batman was pretty good...up until the Riddler's capture and the enacting of his "master plan". Then the movie just completely fell apart for me, and what had up to that moment been a chilling villain turned into a screechy sobbing man-child with a touch of "the special".
The movie sucked, but I didn't full-on hate it until the obligatory "Rich White Men Are All Evil" scene. I'm so tired of this kind a crap being forced into every movie. Then, there was the same kind of idiocy we saw in "Kickass", where they try to tell us that this is a "realistic" superhero movie, then proceed to have people shaking off shotgun blasts to the chest, and 60lb girls beating up 220lb men.
I think it's funny that after several attempts at building a cinematic universe, WB said "screw it, let's have like eight cinematic universes."
The Batmobile was my favorite character in this movie. I think he played his role marvelously.
He even stalled it or something at the beginning of the chase scene 😂
Yeah, my broke, redneck neighbor has the same exact car in his back yard. Perfect super hero car for a billionaire...
@@thebatfan4 I thought I was the only one that spotted old granma foot stalling the brokemobile. 🤣😂
Speaking of Alfred, as I was watching the movie in the cinema, I started panicking when I saw the bomb, but then I immediately thought “wait a minute, why am I so hung up on Alfred possibly dying ?” I found that this feeling was based on my knowledge of, and investment in, previous versions of Alfred, both from the comics and various adaptations. Alfred’s presence and impact as a character were limited in “The Batman”, and therefore my initial reaction was an “overreaction”. Funny how a 3 hour movie didn’t have time to invest me in this version of Alfred to actually and legitimately warrant my panic over the bomb.
to be fair, it think for such mainstream and popular characters it's ok to have some meta, outside investment. it would be like killing uncle Ben for a third time. it's redundant. if every film were in a bubble then they would be horribly redundant within the same franchise. but the audience know Alfred. just like they James Bond or something. we don't need our hand held for the butler in a movie that isn't about him. we already know him, it's ok to play off that.
This movie sucks
The fact that even for a split second you thought there was a possibility that such a substantial character like Alfred could die that early on in Batmans story speaks volumes on how good it was at getting people invested, no matter how much people don't want to admit it for some reason. This was a really good movie with great acting and pretty good and in some parts amazing writing.
But you did panic
@@DoofusChungus 🤣🤣🤣 No.. Just no.. It was neither good nor well acted, it was mediocre at best. Batman does more damage than most of the bad guys in this movie, if he wanted to bring innocent victim casulties down, he should simply stop what he is doing.
subjectively, I couldn't reconcile a guy walking around in a bat suit like a normal guy. batman shouldn't walk in through the front door of a mafioso's night club. Reeves' version is as full of BAM! BOOM! POW! action while batman makes his way through the building that any action hero would take, so to say this is a different kind of batman who is a detective rather than an action hero doesn't work for me.
objectively, this film relies too much on adjusting the power levels of everything (not just the suit). and that's what this whole world feels like to me, a surreal dream in which things happen, and you can't really explain how or why you got there, but you're there. maybe a waking dream or a bad acid trip.
I didn't hate it, but it's not for me. I don't want batman to ever be able to walk around in a bat suit like it's just another night in Gotham. I also felt as though there was no grounding (hence the string of dream sequences analogy).
It's objectively has great color and a cinematography techniques
I get this weird feeling about the ppl defending this movie so hard. They say things like you just didn't get it, and this is close to the comics or the animated series. Or the city felt like Gotham. But know one can say why these things are good. I think some things can be good but none of these things in this movie fit together. The studio had their hands all over this movie and I didn't see any vision or theme throughout it. It's skin deep and I didn't like it at all. The coolest thing in the movie was at the beginning when the criminals were scared of the shadowy corners of the world and they didn't do anything with this concept. 4 out 10 as a movie. And compared to Batman begins it's a 2 out 10.
@@jessemockler616 I didn't think it was BAD, but I'm with you on the mix of moods/approaches not really blending together. still...6 or so from me. 4 feels too much like haterade. it's a decent movie. /2cents
@@daneg I'm objective and unbiased
B to B- plot movie with A to A+ visuals & score, and C to F editing.
That seems a pretty fair score, yep.
@@TheLittlePlatoon maybe if youre mentally challenged
While I can't call it a bad film, I didn't really care for it. There's nothing I absolutely hated, but there's nothing I loved either. As someone who has seen every Batman film countless times (even the bad ones), I have zero desire to ever see this again. I found it unexciting and forgettable.
the only batman movies I ever loved are the ones with Michael Keaton
I agree. It did a lot right in its first hour, didn't do much at all in the second, and the third kind of undermined anything I actually liked about the movie. One and done for me.
Thank you for reading my mind lol
Batman couldn’t figure out riddler was across the street nor can he get out of the way of bullets nor does he know Spanish which is crazy cause he grew up learning many laungages then he doesn’t fight the bad guy at the end ,this movie wasn’t Batman it was 7
@@dantedlane2stop lying…it wasn’t obvious Riddler was across the street, he tanked the bullets bc he could, without armor he would be more stealthy but it’s only much u can do when 15 ppl are firing at u, and he literally did figure out the Spanish, Riddler did the Spanish wrong on purpose and Batman figured it out and thought Riddler didn’t make mistakes but Riddler made the mistakes on purpose
I would argue it's a good mystery film......until the ending where someone in the executive suite possibly said "But isn't this a Superhero movie? Shouldn't there be mandatory large action set piece?"
Of which, someone should've went "No, this is the one hero that has the monicker of 'World's Greatest Detective' so that's not required".
I will say the fact that Bruce essentially does not exist was the point.
This is a Batman who is entirely consumed by the ego purposely because he believes "Bruce" to be useless.
Only for him to make more headway each time he strips off more of the Batman and begins to approach the angle as Bruce.
I think the thing that undermines the plot of the Batman as a whodunit is that, unlike in Se7en, we know who-dun-it from the very beginning and so there is no real sense of mystery, and the mystery of the Riddler's identity for me was not a working substitute for the pay-off
Well, we knew it was the Riddler. But we didn't know who he was. And the police and Batman didn't know who the Riddler was underneath the mask, or why he was killing. I think the only mistake they made was making the Riddler go after criminals. He should have attacked more innocent people so that we don't sympathize with him.
@@nerychristian no that’s not the problem, the problem is the entire script is bad. Matt Reeves clearly didn’t know what story he wanted to tell. Very messy script.
@@damiantirado9616 I'm sure he did know what story he wanted to tell. And many people liked the movie. I wouldn't call it a messy script. Compared to the last few Marvel movies, The Batman is a masterpiece.
@@nerychristian bro marvel movies have always been the same. Dumb fun. The Batman was a movie that took itself too seriously even tho the plot was stupid and the script badly written.
@@damiantirado9616 That's your opinion. Many people thought the movie was really good. It's all subjective.
I agree with most of these points, but while plot armor can be done right, I feel like, plot armor or not, Batman takes to many hit in this film. So much so, that it can often not feel like Batman in the first place. Batman is, more often than not, a stealthy hero. Its kind of the point to his whole character. He's not Superman or Wonder Woman, he's just human, so to make up for that he often tries to avoid fist fights entirely or risk getting shot. And when he does get into fights, the goal is to not take damage at all. He has a long night ahead of him, it'd suck to have to feel the punch of the first guy for all of it. Batman, in a fight, is about swift and effective takedowns. No time wasted. No energy squandered.
A good example of this is in the Arkham games. Batman's first approach is about staying high or staying low, but most of all, staying unseen. His armor, in those games, can take a hit, but just because it can, doesn't mean he should risk it and, after all, it won't hold up forever. Batman in the Arkham games, like any normal human being, tries his best to avoid getting shot, with or without armor. He only fights when he has to and when he does, he's quick and calculated. He aims for joint and tries to break bones, cause its effective. He's often surrounded and its important to take the first guy down as quickly as possible as to move onto the next before getting overrun. And again, even in a fight, Batman tries to take the guns away from the criminals before they shoot him, instead of waiting until after they open fire to then punch them in the face.
I liked the film, and while I can admit it failed at Bruce Wayne, Catwoman wasn't needed and the Riddler was all over the road, I also believe it failed at capturing Batman.
Arkham Bruce is prime Bruce. This is year 2 Bruce, pissed off and young. So yes he should be reckless with how he fights and get hit. Because he's being stupid and makes mistakes.
I agree with you. It would have been nice to see more scenes where Batman uses the shadows to sneek into places. The only time they use the shadows is in the beginning of the film. I would have like to have seen Batman sneek into a building while collecting clues. Or maybe use the darkness to take out someone with a batarang.
@@nerychristian Oh ya, I would've loved to see a batarang. Now that you mention it, he hardly used any gadgets in this film. Another misstep if you ask me.
@@brentarellano46 arkham originsvwas year 2 as well
@@iamedmund1374 I'm awares, and in that he's pissed off, makes mistakes, doesn't know everything, and charges in all the time unless the player wants to go stealth. But the cinematics themselves he charges in. He even yells at alfred. Something prime Bruce never would do.
I agree with your review and would like to add my 2 cents on the ending. The real problem that I have with the ending is that it seems to invalidate all the investment of the previous acts. The riddler seems to change character and the film ends on a note suggesting that what batman was doing, stopping criminals and investigating the murders and chasing the truth, was misguided and immature and helping people directly is what he should have been doing all along, which kind of destroys the point of watching the film to begin with, a point that is exacerbated by its long runtime.
Isn't that the same argument that 'progressives' have been making the last few years in media?
Saying that if really wanted to help Gotham he would just give his money to the poor and stop being Batman?
Isn't that even used in the most current "White Knight" run?
There seem to be people who think that just throwing money at people will stop all crime which is just a childish view of the world.
Yep.
Let's just destroy the city for no reason so that Batman can become Jesus
When you hear a riddler goon say that "he's vengeance" on top of the catwalk batman looks at him and you can see the gears turning in his head that he's been misguided. He isn't like them this is him coming to that realization.
This is batman becoming what he was meant to be. Gothams savior.
That is bigger than his personal vendetta. I don't agree that it destroyed the first 2 acts.
@@liquidocelot4885 But Batman IS vengence. That's why the movie is so freaking stupid. It's trying to redefine Batman into something that he's not.
Batman is not hope, that's Superman. When anyone tries to do a Superman movie that darkens him, even a shade, everyone is out for blood but this movie tries to make Batman hopeful and the masses lap it up like it's milk and honey.
What the hell? This is the kind of thing that is making me, less and less, interested in DC movies.
@@LibraGamesUnlimited the punisher is vengeance. Batman is justice. His unwillingness to kill and his belief in attempting to rehabilitate keep him from being like that goon on the catwalk. He realizes this in that moment.
Before it was about his self indulgent thirst for vengeance and to honor his parents. But it's bigger than that. He's bigger than that. It's not necessarily about hope because that's definitely supermans thing I agree with you there.
On a more practical level, having public opinion on your side helps and the scenes at the very end show this. He got the child and the mayor out of the rubble in the water along with who was behind them.
Paramedics, cops and city officials all watched him carry the little girl to the helicopter. The girl after being strapped into the stretcher still held on to Batman before being air lifted.
These are powerful visuals for everyone there.
For the record, I like the movie but don't love it. Hopefully I don't give off the impression of championing the film. Just a Batman fan for years.
Catwoman came off as disappointingly shallow, especially regarding her relationship with Batman. Penguin was alright, but not very interesting.. same for Riddler. Turturra's Falcone probably goes down as the most compelling villain
yea i loved his calculative charismatic demeanour
i agree with this
That spelling of that last name though lol.
Seeing so many people give Colin Farrell credit for his "good acting" because they "didn't even know it was him" really makes me feel for the spfx makeup team
I found riddler interesting but they definitely used him for a "le 4chan racist" strawman
There were definitely good things about the movie, some in my opinion outright awesome.
I loved the dark feel and tone, and that this batman is more of a detective rather than the classic action superheroes we have had by far the most of.
The first fight he has he is introduced as someone absolutely terrifying to criminals, and play much more off that, than straight out brawling...
And then straight into the bad or outright terrible parts..
Too many occasions where the batman does not play on fear , but runs straight into a gunfight in a nightclub etc. And beats up people with his fists.
The ending as mentioned was also a total shit show and badly hurts the entirety of the film.
I'll give it a verdict of "meh, but it was decent, and i was mostly entertained at least"
Detectetive? Lmao you got me there 😂😂
I disagree with the assessment of the third act as from a story perspective, your conclusion is very sound, I think the more pressing idea and the one intended was a character perspective. It's Batman's shift from being a character who is doing everything because of a sense of anger, hatred, and vengeance into one that is doing what he does for the good of the people. The entire movie Bruce had been disregarding people, not caring about deaths, and focusing only on taking the next criminal down and when he hears the line that the Riddler goon says which parallels his first onscreen line in the movie it makes him see that if he doesn't care about people then he is no different than those he fights.
There is not a single sound argument in this video.
@@tiaaaron3278 just a bunch of brainlets that look at things at face value instead of reading into the themes and subtexts of the film.
@@tiaaaron3278 true
Yeah, yeah, we get the character development. It still doesn't detract from how the bomb plan is terribly out-of-character for this version of the Ridder, terribly contrived and jarringly over-dramatic in its execution, and terribly derivative: how many Gotham-at-the-brink-of-destruction Batman movie 3rd acts are we going to get until they try something new?
@@drzerogi Sure, I totally agree. However, you also can't ignore the character perspective of that act. They already described the plot problems with this act in the video, I felt no need to parrot their argument. I only added that they didn't talk about what this act also did very well. I'm confused about how you didn't get this, I even stated in my original comment that the assessment shown in the video was "very sound". I'm a person that doesn't care as much about the overall plot of a story and really only cares about the characterization of the characters in it. That's not to say plot is not important, just that I care more about characterization.
I really enjoyed the fact he didn’t care about the Bruce Wayne character in most of the film. Him being blind to the potential of Bruce Wayne makes the end more meaningful when he realizes Batman and Bruce Wayne need to be more to truly help Gotham City.
i feel like that entire idea is empty and hollow. and actually degrades Batman's intelligence. this film reduced Batman even lower than ever seen before and people somehow saw it as kool that we see him before he was worth a shit. somehow the police respect him SO FUCKING MUCH that they dont unmask him, and yet he is a juvenile nitwit who hasnt learned the first thing about being Batman yet at the same time...
and if you think i'm being emotional, its cause i despised this film. it wasnt needed. we DIDNT NEED ANOTHER FUCKING FRESH START.
and as everyone else who has seen it and questioned its intelligence, the last 30 minutes of the film was puke
As much as I know that Rob would absolutely nail the suaveness of regular Bruce, part of me almost wants them to keep the emotionally stunted/possibly autistic angle. For one, it intrigues me... For another, it pisses people off hilariously lololol
Like every other Batman movie, there is no alter-ego, just a singular individual that we see sometimes wearing a bat-costume and beating up bad guys.
Putting on a mask to hide your identity doesn't suddenly mean you have multiple personality disorder
@@histguy101it's more that Batman sees himself as Batman and not Bruce Wayne. It doesn't make him a different person, but it does lead him to put less into his life as Bruce Wayne than he does Batman.
i find myself agreeing with this sentiment. though i do feel the film would have benefited from a more concrete conclusion of this point.
I do think The Batman isn’t necessarily a bad film. As someone who really enjoyed it, I actually think it’s great, despite its flaws. But I’m also not opposed to the criticism it receives; it actually helps me to learn the difference between my subjective opinion, and what is objectively true about the film itself. Thanks for making these, because honestly, there’s no such thing as a perfect film.
Like he said in his video, there are ao many versions of batman, so I feel like the older audience that has been through comics, multiple reboots, the video games and the animated series get attached to a version of him that they subjectively enjoy more. Personally I loved this version, and although unpopular, I enjoy a long runtime. That doesn't give me tunnel vision goggles though, I know there's plot holes and the likes in this movie just like all the others. The tone of this movie though felt spot on for what I imagine Gotham to be.
I think it sucks pretty hard. Not the worst movie ever. It does have an apocalyptically bad screenplay
@@DarranKern most other aspects of this film are great but the script is so dire it pulls everything around it down
@@tobylerone4285 its two and a half movies smashed into one. Even if I like Pattinson and like several of the action scenes, overall this movie is objectively straight trash
While the movie is flawed, there is nothing genuine or valid about these so-called reviews of it in this channel.
My opinion was that it wasn't without flaws or mistakes, but that it was an interesting approach to Batman by taking a more grounded or realistic take; insofar as you *can* be grounded or realistic about superheroes.
I wasn't offended by the movie and found it entertaining, which I think is sufficient for any movie.
This movie was ok, not the best but definitely not the worst. I honestly can do 20 years without another batman movie
I would argue the score is quite derivative being that it seems composed entirely of Nirvana's "Something in the Way."
Not entirely. Batman's theme is just almost a copy-paste of Chopin's Funeral March.
Yeah. I thought I was the only one who noticed that they played the same song 40 times in one movie.
@@NewYorkFloridaMan The song or the theme? The song only played two times while the theme, yeah pretty much 40 times.
I think the soundtrack is beautiful. It's what it should be. Music that compliments the movie, but doesn't overpower it. I don't like movies with "blockbuster" sounding soundtrack. I prefer my melodies to be more subtle.
@@NewYorkFloridaMan pretty sure it was twice
If anything it was a little too long. By the time of the final fight, I forgot the whole reason of why he was there in the first place and where that place was. Didn't have that problem while watching Return of the King, and I never read that book.
My husband watched it, but I fell asleep, which usually never happens to me during movies. I asked him what was happening in the film, but he didn’t have an answer for me, because nothing was memorable to him.
Yeah I seen it in the cinema with my cousin and he fell asleep half way through and I was bored for the most part
I seen it by myself and walked out after the riddler interrogation
@FUTUREDCUWARRIORLIFEso people can't have opposing opinions about a interpretation of a chatacter?
Sometimes being the gray blob is the correct position. It really was just alright.
Batman has been a part of my life since my time growing up in the 90's. This movie left such little impression on me that I would much rather watch Batman and Robin for the shits and giggles than give this film another viewing.
Based
what an embarassing thing to say😂
I think about death sometimes, but very rarely do I think about this movie.
I’m assuming that the composer of The Batman, is also the composer of doctor strange. When Strange gets his cloak and levitates for the first time the score is Emersion breakingly similar to 2009 Star treks main theme. Also the fact that Bruce and Alfred don’t have a relationship throughout the film I always thought was the point. When Alfred gets hurt it forces Bruce to confront his feelings and gives the relationship some life, which in turn encourages Bruce to find a better way to fight the criminal element and give hope and a symbol. This is presumably 1 out of 3 films…they can build on the alred thing too
i've seen this discussion point before. and i would like to counter that its been 40 years since the first Batman film, and the comics been around for decades more. many Batman fans have seen him in the cartoons. DEAR GOD WHY DID THEY FRESH START. WHY do you or anyone else give this shit film credit for degrading and lowering Batman to less, so he can just END UP WHERE HE's BEEN FOR DECADES. absolutely insane ninnies on the writing team.
I really enjoy it, but I think it might be bc I love how Batman's a detective and how dark and miserable Gotham is, and it seems that no movie has captured both of these until now.
Also, I love the Riddler, I just wish his endgame had been a bit more logical. Stick to the idea of exposing corruption and maybe have it end where he does a sort of live execution of all of Gotham's elite and Batman has to stop it. Would have made more sense imo.
I havent seen the movie, but there is one thought that came to my mind:
Why shouldn't it be possible for Bruce to completely lose himself in the batman persona? Sounds like Bruce is done with his life as a civilian, there is nothing to develop from here. He's gone. Why isn't this a plausible explenation for his 1 dimensional personality? It's a front, and he does the bare minimum to keep it up, because he doesn't give a flying f anymore.
Maybe there is more to it, and I have to watch the movie first, but I don't really see a problem with this take on the charakter. He's a lunatic running aroung in a cape, who will never be part of "normal" society ever again, end of story
If you still haven't watched it I suggest watching Batman Hush and Batman Long Halloween Pt 1 & 2. This movie takes elements from those three films and all three were far better and also sheds more light on to why certain things happened in this movie as well as shows the flaws with this movie trying to put about four hours of material into 2 hours whipe leaving out the parts that really made the three films work. This movie will leave feeling like there is supposed to be more to it and that is why. The ending will feel out of place because it's based on a time when Batman and Catwoman had been known each for years and became a couple.
dude hes at the start of his character arc
its a trilogy hes gonna get better???
@Chandler Burse maybe so but the film is a poor adaption of several movies combined into one that are adaption themselves. In Long Halloween we see how Bruce and Falcone had a relationship and how he knew Bruce was Batman already. The movies did better at expressing the relationships of characters. Batman and catwoman separated due to a combination of things such as them both being broken people, she wants to have an ending like in the Dark Night Rises but Bruce doesn't want to stop being Batman. It may have its flaws but it shows more depth to the characters. Clearly this Riddler is based off of Hush who knows who Batman is.
@@jjju3 Imho it makes it very clear that he is living the batman life for quite some time before we happen to join him.
Maybe the arc is him realizing that he does in fact need a civilian life...
I've seen it now btw and it's neither a total fail nor a master piece.
Style was insane tho, loved it.
I was really hyped up for this film. Thought sparkly Edward was a decent actor and he is. However, this film was an absolute drag and it's only bright spot perhaps was the cinematography. No Batman film has ever made me fall asleep and this one did! It's the screenplay, writing, near non existent character development, an inept Batman (the character just sucked), and a forgettable villain made this film a tedious chore to sit through.
This was arguably the best film of the year for me so far lol I didn’t know it was facing a lot of backlash from fans
same. it is a beautiful movie in terms of tone and cinematography, the plot is a bit shaky, and the third act was unnecessary and boring. but I don't think it was overlong, I found it an absolute treat to watch for three hours, I never got bored, partially because of Dano's acting, partially because of the cinematography. the plot was good enough, and even though there are a few plot holes and some parts just don't make sense, it was a decent enough plot that overall worked really well for the film.
From what i get from those won’t don’t like it and that did share there opinion , is that it’s not enough pEw PEw too much investigation. Yeah in short they never read a Batman comic or even understand the animated series ( can’t blame them they were kids ) , in short you regular consumer who just shut off there brain with blockbuster but also those who think elaborate narrative and spandex maniac is pretentious and unholy.
It’s just morons that can’t comprehend cinema
@@JoeJoe-nb3lt Literally the opposite. If you loved this movie, you are incapable of thought. I watched it once and can cite literally dozens of plot holes and inconsistencies that fans of this movie didn’t even notice. I was laughing throughout the entire movie because the script was so obviously broken it felt like a Steven Seagal movie. Those of us who were paying attention realized how dumb it was. Everybody else liked it
@@JesusChristsDick then state those dozen plot hole instead of being snarky about it. You just another edgy contrarian nothing to see here. The underdog who is hated because he tells “THe TRuTh”. Pathetic need to feel different and unique.
I wish you would honesty and frankly state what you thought the point of the film was? Because your review made me think you missed it or had already decided "this is a basic super hero film so I get it" before watching it, which made you not at all get the film. I think you put the film into a box which made you miss a lot.
What I needed in this film was to know who Bruce Wayne was, to know why he cared about doing what he did, to know why his family remotely mattered (or didn't matter) to him, anything like that. All we got in the whole three hours of runtime was that Thomas Wayne had a relationship with Falcone...but not Bruce. Thomas was a rich man whose actions could be seen in connection to the Riddler's background and motivation...but not Bruce. Batman's existence has impact on any and all of Gotham City...but not Bruce's.
Any of the runtime that was wasted on Selina's shallow character (and motivation behind her one shallow line) could have shown us anything about who Bruce is. Any of the runtime wasted on Batman stood in a room staring at things while other people stood and stared at him staring at things while Gordon stared at Batman staring back at them...you get the point...could have gone into telling me why I remotely cared about any of these characters besides, unfortunately, Riddler. And if I don't see anyone I like in your story other than the villain, why should I ever root for your story's hero?
This all leads me to say the runtime wasn't too long on its face, but the story did not justify its use. And to add insult to injury, it culminates a rushed ending that showed me why the film doesn't want Batman to be Batman, it wants him to be Superman, because it reframes everything he did before as being like the Punisher, inspiring people who'll find mercenaries on internet forums to blow up seawalls. For as seriously as this film touted itself, that was somehow goofier than Batman Returns. (And it also got me to stop rooting for the villain, so now I'm left rooting for no one. Thanks, writers!)
As it stands...to me, the film kinda sucks. So much talent behind the camera, and even on the screen...but it was lacking in any aspect not created on set. There are ABSOLUTELY worse Batman films, I'm not putting this below either Schumacher film. But this is a world I'm already sure I don't want to see more of. And no amount of promises of the Joker (played decently by Mr. Druig Sucks himself) will persuade me there.
The story they wanted to tell (slow paced, lots of filler, small scale for the most part) was better suited for streaming show. 3 hours should deliver some epic stuff, this movie is a boring waste of time.
@@jbbrolicobjectively wrong
@@quidproque76objectively correct
@@jbbrolicI kinda have a pretty rough time watching any scene beyond those action scenes and anytime I got invested in the plot it just shows me how weak the plot really is most of the times and also how blank some scenes are. It really is boring seeing Batman staring a kid and seeing characters staring at each other. Imo the movie feels like is trying to be not only Sev7n but also Blade Runner 2049. Which it kinda ruins for the character of Batman.
I had many problems with this movie but the thing that destroy the movie for me was the scene when batman saw riddle's video.
Why did riddler post his evil master plan on the internet?
Why did riddler record his house, his face and the outside area of where he lived? He basically show his address on the internet for everyone to see before he delivered himself to the police.
How does riddler only has 500 followers in his website even so he has been talked about in every news station for being a terrorist? And how did he not get himself banned?
How did nobody called the law enforcement after seeing his videos?
How did anyone not caught riddler at this point?
It doesn't matter if this website was made in the dark web because they would have still got himself caught by the FBI regardless.
He only had 500 followers because that was not a regular website. It was a private blog he created. It only attracted some mentally disturbed people. Maybe the Riddler joined an online forum and started recruiting others
@@nerychristian Even if what you're saying is true you can't tell me that out of all the people who visited the website not one person called the law enforcement after seeing a well known terrorist trying to destroy Gotham city.
@@username-ew1de it's called vetting people
@@username-ew1de I'm pretty sure they would be more afraid of what the riddler could do if one of them betrayed him.
@@nerychristian Betrayed him? The people who follow or visited the website are anonymous. How the hell would riddler know the person who called law enforcement if he doesn't have a single clue about it.
In a detective noir themed Batman film shouldn’t it primarily focus on his Matches Malone persona and him establishing his black market under connections then coming across a grande plot. Making the build up to him donning a fully realized bat suit as a result the needs presented by the strangeness of the case.
@C Sorgini Why no? Know one ever tries to show him realistically establishing himself within Gotham’s underworld, they just jump to him fully established and complete with full on cosplay fetish all around.
If they really wanted detective noir why not leave the camp for the climax of the film and focus more on the less then legal detective work. Which would be a good way to develop his lines in the sand, along with why Gotham needs a Bogeyman vs. a better funded police force.
That sounds like too much to fit in a movie format. It could make a good television series, or perhaps miniseries, where they would have a greater luxury of time for that story to develop. I'd certainly enjoy watching that.
To be honest, i kinda like this movie. Well, i must agree that the short amount of fighting/action scenes are a bit disappointing. i truly
Love the detective plot of the movie.the riddler design is actually kinda accurate to real life criminals unlike those weird goofy
Costumes that riddler wears.i also kinda like how they depicted gotham city.they show how crime active gotham was and how
The only thing that they truly fear is batman.overal i give this movie a 9.8/10
At the end of the day for me, I feel like it wasn't a horrible film, but it definitely was a horrible batman movie. I did genuinely feel that there were a few things in this film where if you were to just read the scene as a sentence, no Batman fan would agree that should happen. For example. "Batman walks up to a nightclub and rings the doorbell to gain access." If you have any knowledge of this character, it feels like that sentence simply shouldn't fly. It wasn't played ironically, it wasn't played for comedy and it didn't need to happen, yet it did. Another example. "Batman revs the engine of the batmobile to intimidate criminals and stalls out the engine." Like... why would you ever write Batman doing that? What does that accomplish?
I do agree that the ending was a huge factor in my dislike of this film, because, as I said in my comment of "Dick's" video, it very much cheapened everything that came before it. The movie being billed as a detective movie, laying out a bunch of clues for you to follow and then ultimately having all those clues lead absolutely nowhere only to reveal bombs in vans and dudes with guns was extremely underwhelming and just made me stop caring.
I also felt like there was a lot of "The main characters are perceived as competent only because everybody around them are insanely inept." During the climax when the "dudes with guns" are shooting at people in the arena, I could only think... are none of the police capable of returning fire on these guys? Sure the shooters had a positional advantage and all, but law enforcement can't even make an attempt to retaliate? Then there's the scene where Batman dramatically... grapples onto an electrified device suspended above a pool of water and cuts the wire to fall into the water below... ((Why? Why did he do that rather than just grapple himself down? Also... apparently the electrified device suspended above water that the director clearly emphasized apparently isn't an issue at all?)) ...to "save" a bunch of civilians by leading them out of the stadium. I was left wondering what exactly he provided to them that they didn't already have? A light source? He didn't clear any rubble or carry any people out, he simply lit a flare and people followed him. Did nobody have a phone with a flashlight on it? Was literally nobody else capable of producing a light and doing the exact same thing?
There was also way too much of the movie being inconsistent with logic or physics. Batman is shown being stunned by gunfire, but takes a bomb to the face and is only knocked unconscious, or crash lands into a bus at high speeds and literally walks it off. The Riddler's plan basically comes to complete fruition, yet he acts like Batman foiled his plot. A man is killed in an explosion and Batman is on scene and knocked unconscious, but Batman is not restrained, detained, demasked, or taken for medical treatment, he is brought to the police station and surrounded by cops who stare at him for hours and wait for him to wake up.
The last thing, I promise, that bothered me is just how emo Bruce Wayne was. The scene with him shirtless and barefoot, spray painting clues across his dining room with angsty hair was the most cringe thing I think I've ever watched. Just why? Why is your shirt off? Where are your shoes? Comb your damn hair, and why for the love of god are you spray painting all of this across your living room when pen and paper fucking exist? It was one of the things I knew would be in the movie when I heard Pattison was going to be Batman, and I don't care what you say, I guarantee that scene wouldn't have been there if he wasn't. I can only imagine the scene written as "Batman writes down a bunch of clues about his parents death" and Pattison came on set with a shit eating grin and was like "Watch this", and "improvised" that scene to be that way. It's like, if you were to cast Jean Claude Van Damme in a film, no matter what character he's portraying, you know he's going to insist that there's a scene where he does the splits and shows off his bulge. Likewise, if you cast Robert Pattison in a film, you know you're going to get at LEAST one insanely cringe emo scene. It's probably literally in his contract.
In fact, I take it back, this WAS a horrible film, not just a horrible Batman film. It wasn't just the portrayal of the titular character that bothered me, it was just bad filmmaking. There were too many inconsistencies. Too many things happened that were nonsensical just for the sake of having an unearned moment or for forcing the plot in a direction that could only happen if characters made completely illogical decisions, or if they were portrayed as absolute incompetent morons.
Also, for the record, YES. I am drunk while writing this, but so be it.
I actually liked the Movie! Just watched Yesterday. It's not as Epic as the Nolan ones, but it was actually decent. It seemed a bit rushed and i hated Catwomans Performance, but the Twilight Dude was way better as i expected.
One thing you said that doesn't fit.The riddler tried to bring down the batman.Didnt seem that way.He even said as much.Riddler thought he was helping.
Am I the only that understands Bruce Waynes character is supposed to be bland? Yes, he’s got little to no personality but that’s no accident. Bruce is entirely enveloped in the Batman persona because that’s who he truly is in his mind. At this point in time he’s younger and angrier. The Bruce Wayne persona is intentionally written “blandly” because Batman at this point in his career sees no point in it. He literally states this to Alfred in the beginning part of the movie after he returns to the cave after the death of the mayor. It’s really not a hard concept to grasp, I picked it up easily why is no talking about this
The movie sucked but I agree. I had no problem with Bruce Wayne's character cause I knew what they were trying to do. The BIGGEST problem to me was Robert Pattinson as Batman.
IT DOESN'T WORK! Matt Reeves Batman is a limped dicked version of Batman. I don't find Robert Pattinson terrifying or cool.
I highly agree with you i actually think this is one of the best batman movies ive aeen as it explores the beggining of the batman peraona and the struggle with the bruce wayne persona and its accurate to the comics aswell 😅
I highly AGREE
@@foxynie.5861
It's a L I M P D I C K E D Batman movie.
If you're going to make a hard boiled Batman film, it should be H A R D C O C K E D - THROBBING! A VEINY COCK OF A FILM!! FULLY ERECT!! Right at the edge of busting all sorts of nuts! At least 12 nuts per minute.
Not this shriveled up, soft dicked, non-menacing Batman film. Foh
Notice the 3 instances of his cold relationship with Alfred: "you're not my father" (not exact quote), "you're not a Wayne" (cuff links), and "you lied to me" (accusation regarding Thomas Wayne). It's not a 1,2,3 presto chango either. You can see how Bruce feels no remorse for disrespecting Alfred at first by not listening to him (not his father). Then with the cuff links, he realizes he was wrong to say what he said (trying to hurt alfred), yet still does not apologize. Bruce loves Alfred all the way through of course, but it shows when Alfred almost died (Bruce is lucky Alfred did not die without him apologizing for how he acted). But even after that, he accuses Alfred of being a liar as he awakes and is happy to see him. Alfred of course, like a good father figure, loves Bruce at all times and The Batman becomes more so Bruce Wayne.
If a caring relationship had been shown early on with Alfred, including Bruce stating he would never put Alfred in danger by his crime fighting, there would have been more emotional heft in the hospital conversation and some character development to make Bruce question his life choice, and then perhaps double-down on being a loner so as not to risk those he cares for - which could support his decision not to pursue his feelings for Cat Woman.
I'm more of a Marvel fan than DC, but I felt The Batman was a clear step in the right direction for DC; more grounded, 'darker' and without the (often overused) Marvel brand of humour. However I did feel the pacing needed to be tighter and they could have cut 30-40mins. Putting aside the pacing and the narrative, for pure 'chills' then the approaching footsteps in the dark and the start-up of the Batmobile were standouts that have stayed with me.
I actually enjoyed the movie a lot. Definitely the best movie of the year so far. But I agree that the movie could have been 20 mins shorter. It should have ended shortly after they arrest the Riddler in the cafe. They could have saved the other action scenes for the sequel- after the Riddler teams up with Penguin and Joker. I actually enjoyed the final action scene in the sports arena. But I think the part where Batman cuts the electrical cable and falls into the water, would have been a great ending to a third film. It would have been very emotional and impactful to Batman actually die while trying to save the people.
Bruh you could literally cut like an entire hour from that movie and it wouldn't change the narrative one bit. There's a lot of lingering shots that just don't need to be there. Considering what other films there are from big budget studios this year saying its the best so far ain't saying much
@Damian Gryphon yes but definitely not snyder darker, He had his chance and it was awful
@Damian Gryphon Snyder is garbage
You got it wrong. He can't afford to lose Alfred as we saw he relies heavily on him. And your argument on not involving him makes zero sense considering it wasn't Batman who caused the explosion. Alfred got hurt because he was related to Bruce Wayne. It had nothing to do with Batman. So the scenario you made up is frankly nonsensical and awful.
I thought it was a solid film. I absolutely loved the visuals, they did an amazing job at creating the world of Gotham, the performances across the board were solid to great (people are being too hard on Kravitz imo). But the story/mystery itself I didn't find that compelling and there were a few moments that confounded me (Batman waiting until the last moment before a bomb goes off for example), the riddles weren't impressive (the el ratalada one I even found quite bizzare but not in a good way), the music at times is a little too repetitive and I think everyone unanimously agrees the Joker scene should have seen the chopping block . But I like what Matt Reeves is aiming for here. The idea of Bruce Wayne being an introvert who is indistinguishable from Batman is a great idea. The sequels have potential to be fantastic.
I love the movie too. I thought it was almost flawless. Except for the silly part where he falls off the bus and doesn't get seriously injured. I also would have like to see at least one scene with Bruce Wayne attending a social event, and smiling and being charming. That would have made the contrast of the emo character more impactful.
@@nerychristian My take is that at this stage, he doesn't see the point in doing so. In fact, this movie could be taken as the origin of the Bruce Wayne persona as he learns its importance.
Go in expecting Batman mixed with Silence of the Lambs and it’s fine. Expecting the normal action movie Batman will probably throw you off.
it's full of nobrainer action... it's more like a Robocop without satire than a Silence of the Lambs
Not being a comic book fan, but enjoying (some) comic book to film adaptations, I got sick of the re-invention fad that took over the world a few years ago. I.E. Superman, Spiderman and worst of all the numerous Batman films. But as I see it, Bruce Wayne is a Millionaire/Multi-Millionaire/Billionaire, (depending on which iteration you watch), Man-about-town buisiness man who also runs/owns hospitals for the poor and orphanages, (Adam West and Michael Keaton both showed this side of him), being an orphan himself he can empathize with them. From what I can see, they don't even touch on this.
That’s the point? The entire point is that Bruce is so set on being batman that he forgets his core values. Don’t blame a movie just because you don’t understand.
@@ice.man95 The reason he became Batman is because of his core values. To protect the down trodden and those who can't defend themselves, and rid his beloved Gothem City of crime and corruption.
@@frankowalker4662 Yes but this bruce is filled with wanting vengeance. Literally his ENTIRE arc in this movie is him going from vengeance to hope.
@@ice.man95 It was done terribly. Batman begins tells a better vengeance story.
@@wolflordbradley7353 in Batman begins it’s almost like he has been Batman for a few years and makes basically no mistakes. According to the comics Batman made many mistakes in his first two years. But i will agree that he is more reckless in this movie in comparison to the comics.
The point about (in Multiple Personality Disorder terms) Batman being the host personality as opposed to an alt, is something that has gone backwards and forwards with the character for a very long time.
MPD has been a particularly strong interest of mine, and based on what I have read, I would suspect that neither Bruce NOR Batman would in fact be the host personality. The ostensible reason why MPD happens in the first place, is because the host personality is subjected to sufficiently intense trauma, that defragmenting and decentralising is the only way it can psychologically survive.
The child who actually saw his parents get shot, as a singular entity, either would have ceased to exist completely, or would have been pushed sufficiently far down into the subconscious, that the newly formed collective would not need to worry about being re-exposed to the memory before it was able to process it. The memory usually fragments, and different pieces are held by various alts who are generally fairly close to the age the host was when the trauma occurred. If hypothetically there is a single personality which has the entire memory and otherwise knows everything, then you can be sure that it would be VERY securely guarded.
There is an element of standardisation with the personalities that form in many cases, though. Batman would likely be known internally as the Protector, and as tends to be the case with real world governments and militaries, he would have rather a lot of authority within the internal collective. "Bruce" (particularly in this film's case) is essentially the social interface; a mask which likely has very little of its' own substance, by design. Its' purpose would be to allow the other various alts to present the illusion of a monolithic personality to outsiders, while speaking to them.
Please tell me you don't actually think Batman has MPD lmfao
@@LuxCarraway I do
You're definitely onto something here. Batman is a defense mechanism, Wayne is a coping mechanism. One designed to protect, the other to convince his peers that he's "normal."
All the while, there's an inner child that is wounded, scared, and isolated. Never healing, never overcoming, never truly granted closure.
I believe it was Shakespeare who said there's only five original storylines and I believe at my age I've seen most of them and their variants.
That's been proven wrong.
@@VeraxMusic a claim without proof is just an opinion
In regard to the Batman-Bruce dynamic, I feel like a lot can be said about the lack of a Bruce Wayne character. Batman is born in large part because Bruce's development was stunted by the trauma of his parents' deaths. He's still an angry child, putting himself back into that situation, but with the tools and skills to overpower it. It makes a lot of sense that Bruce would avoid living in the shoes of "Bruce Wayne" because that role is too painful for him. It's easier to be the unfeeling Batman, but with his character arc in the film, its possible that he'll spend more time evolving into that Bruce Wayne role. I totally agree with Dick about the suit though, I prefer a batman more reliant on skills than fantastical technology.
Yeah, except you can buy the suit on amazon for about $16K, then the fly suit for another $20K. It's not hard to imagine a billionaire developing this a little further...
I thought the same thing in response to Platoon’s critique here. It makes for an interesting change in the Bruce/Batman dualities. Rather than Bruce evolving into include Batman, Batman evolves to include Bruce.
You know how I know it REALLY didn't deliver? With The Dark Knight, I can watch it any day of the week. I remember getting the DVD and watching it all the time. I still get the itch every few months.
With this, I actually haven't watched it once since I bought the 4K disc. I just haven't felt the drive, and yes....the difference between a 3 hour time commitment vs a 2.5 hour time commitment is a big difference maker.
30 minutes in run tuim doesn't make a difference, quality in movie does. Tdk can be 4 hours and I'd watch that anytime over this drip of a movie
I watched both very recently, and I can say that The Dark Knight is almost the perfect action thriller. It thrives way more on building tension and exploding it with amazing action. It’s overall more fast-paced and watchable for me. The Batman is more of a low key vibe that you kind of live in for 3 hrs. I think the style of TDK is just more re-watchable. It’s also just simply amazing… no other movie is as re-watchable and enjoyable in my eyes. Idk if any Batman movie, or many other movies period, can surpass that quality of TDK.
I think what i like about this film is the riddler essentially wins and his plans happen and batman looses even though he wins the last battle ultimately this film sets him up for failure which is more true of the comics . Batman looses
1. Bruce and Batman are not seperate characters.
Yes there is a persona that batman puts on that goes by the name Bruce wayne, but the motivations and person inside are still the same. All characterization given to one, is given to both. If Bruce wayne acts cocky, that is also characterization of batman as he is making the decision to act cocky in order to perpetuate a ruse, showing his priorities and motivations. If instead he decides to be a recluse and not put on a show that still characterizes Batman, but in a different way. Now it shows is priorities and motivations in a different stage.
This is not a flaw in the film
2. 12:59. I disagree, it stuck in my mind, I could hum it to you
3. Bruce is actually shown with scraping and bruising after the squirrel suit scene
4. The film being "boring" is pretty subjective
5. 21:48 What exactly is your criticism here? Why is it lazy writing?
6. You're arguing that it's too much like se7en, but also you think it should've copied the heroes journey from se7en?
7. Your argument at the end about Alfred and Bruce's relationship is so contradictory its downright silly. You say that the film doesn't show interest in the relationship; no, yhe film highlights that Bruce doesn't show interest in the relationship. It isnt focused on because Bruce isn't focusing on it. Also calling "you don't know what you have until you've lost it" a trope is like calling characters feeling sad about a loved ones death a trope. These are very common ideas for all people especially when it comes to loved ones being hurt or killed. It's not a movie trope it's an almost universal phenomenon in the real world
8. When you talk about catwomans motivations being shallow and her having many contrived moments, I need elaboration and examples to agree or disagree, this is too broad.
9. You continuously say how horrifically horrible the ending is but only really talk about how the riddlers plan is illogical. Need more examples
Overall, most of your criticisms are subjective (points 2, 4 and 6), too broad and require elaboration (points 5, 8, and 9) or just factually incorrect (1, 3 and 7).
Just on point 6, it had the window dressings of Se7en but not the structure, which is what made Se7en such a great film to watch. Same goes for the Zodiac. Reeves made Riddler look like the Zodiac killer, but the riddles weren’t nearly as cryptic. There’s a huge contradiction in Batman being able to solve a Zodiac-style cypher without even looking at it, but not even guessing that a rat with wings might mean bat. Reeves was only “inspired” by Se7en and Zodiac in the most superficial ways
Agree with every word you’ve saved me the trouble of typing it myself. And can someone buy a fucking dictionary and learn what OBJECTIVE actually means and stop applying that word to SUBJECTIVE film criticism.
The point of the batman is "why was the batman ego born?" Not "there are 2 egos".
The former relies on the latter.
I have three issues with this film. It's too long. The second ending should have been scrapped.
Batman would have found the Riddler earlier if he had investigated the angle of the photos taken of the Mayor leaving the club.
There was that great car chase with no pay off at the end. The Penguin waddled away free.
Wasn't the underdeveloped nature of Bruce part of the point? Bruce Wayne was a man on the back burner; the mantle of the Batman was occupying his full attention, as vengeance was how he thought he could do the most, and Bruce was basically relegated to the token public appearance. It's only with his visit to the prison that he gets what vengeance really is, and by the end of the film has decided to be justice.
Then when it comes to Alfred, the scene that I always think about when reflecting on the film is him sitting there trying to solve the Riddler's riddle like a cryptic crossword in the morning while catching Bruce up on his day schedule. That right there established a lot of their relationship. He was there to help Bruce wherever he needed it, as Bruce or as Batman, without needing to be asked nor thanked. Like that's not even the scene that comes to mind when I think of Alfred, but the whole damn movie, that's the scene I remember first.
I thought that was the point too. He ultimately became a recluse as Bruce Wayne, isolating himself and hyperfocusing on his revenge mission. His inability to catch his parents' murderer perpetuates this obsession and leaves him no time to develop his cover life or much of a personality throughout his upbringing. As Batman in his early years, I would suspect Alfred would be the voice of reason and pragmatism. Telling Bruce he needs to strive for a balance and that obsessing on this never-ending mission will consume what's left of him. Bruce takes it in and doesn't talk about it, but by the third act he should start seeing the practicality or even tactical use of having a societal face to further his goals. They could use it as groundwork for a sequel even, reflecting on the consequence of vengeance, the difference between justice and revenge, the duality of being a force for good.
The person who made this video is dense af.
Movie sucks. That was NOT Batman. Period. Review is a 33:21 doctoral thesis. (40 min with ads) WHY?
Whose a little baby?
@@alfalldoot6715 at least I use proper punctuation. WHO'S A LITTLE BABY NOW?
@@alfalldoot6715 who can go fk themself?
@@86crushoh get a room
get a life 🤣puppet show@@kwayneboy1524
Batman did use guns originally, back in the Golden Age of comics. Killed people too. Hung a man once with a rope from the bottom of the Batplane, with one panel showing the guy tugging at the rope around his neck and the next his hanging corpse. The Batman mellowed somewhat from his early days. As such, Snyder's Batman was somewhat of a reminder of what Batman was than a departure from him entirely.
Snyder's Batman didn't have F's left to give
@@Robear538 Snyder's Batman > Reeves's emo Black Robocop cosplayer
Riddler wasn't foiled at the end. He technically won, but u completely miss out on his motives. He did not want to take down the batman.
Yes, he said that.
On the subject of Hans Zimmer being 'an overrated composer,' Zimmer is not as much a composer as he is a producer. He usually brings other musicians in to compose music for his scores. What makes Zimmer an outstanding producer is how he innovates and tries to push beyond sounds he has already created. Yes, Zimmer repeats himself a lot (and his acolytes like Steve Jablonsky crib a lot of his stuff too, and vice-versa), but compared to someone like John Williams, whose work has mostly stagnated since Attack of the Clones, with a few exceptions here and there, Zimmer has been at the forefront of musical trends in film since his work on The Lion King. Zimmer tries new things and fuses different genres and styles. That's what makes him remarkable and sets him apart from traditional composers like Williams and Giacchino.
Eloquent way of saying it was fairly garbage without pissing off the pitchfork carriers
Yes he lost his parents and it gave him his moral centre. He hates injustice and guns . And murder. And he cares about his families legacy or his noble obligation ( pardon my French again) to protect the city he is essentially the prince of . Sound like a moral centre to me . You would think maybe for character growth or realism instead of emo , you might have him be an alcoholic or drug or promiscuous habits which is common to self medicate or distract from the pain inyil a moment of clarity ?
What💀
Well that's more or less what he is: a junkie. His drug of choice being Batman.
@@robbanbobban2 EXACTLY
Fuck are you talking about "He hates guns." Batman originally CARRIED A GUN. He hates KILLING. In the 1960s he decided to stop carrying a gun because he wanted to focus on bringing criminals to JUSTICE.
Read the comics before you start pontificating on the damn character.
@damiangryphon6349ruce Wayne is better than Tony stark and predates him. Tony Stark is a rip off of BW.
Batman usually only plays at being a lush who sleeps around. He generally only fakes drinking (and has since the 30s) so he can stay fit. Sleeping around is pretty much the only thing he actually does. Playing a little scamp to seem harmless and like he's self medicating while he's real coping method is batman and his mission. I think Bale was the best representative of both Brucie and batman
I didn't personally liked it, but I'm not a fan of American superheroes so it was definitely not for me, but I freaking loved the 2000s Dark Knight trilogy, I still watch those movies from time to time they were so entertaining even as not a fan of superheroes. I wish the had followed that Robin cliffhanger from the 3rd movie
My biggest beef with that film was that church explosion; not only did he walk away from AN EXPLOSION TO THE FACE unscathed, but he didn’t even make an attempt to avoid it. He didn’t step back, turn away, or even cover his face. Just let the phone blow up point blank.
It's one of those purely flashy explosions dont you know..
It was a horrible scene, yet another.. I am surprised the bad guy could actually breach the walls to let in the water after being unable to do any damage with a bomb like that.
He shielded his face with his arms. Did you watch the movie?
@@tiaaaron3278 Haha god your fucking replies are so dumb..
23:46 This, this THIS. A better ending would have been the Arkham confrontation. Yes, it kills all that came before it and killed it for me.
Okay but why?
The Batman is a fine film, but it’s not the best Batman film. I still think The Dark Knight Trilogy is the best and Christian Bale is the best Bruce Wayne/Batman. I also legit love The Dark Knight Rises the best of the trilogy, especially since I saw the previous two films in the theater just before seeing the midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises and I don’t see the various problems people have with it, perhaps seeing them all back to back helped me see the story so clearly, but that’s another thing all together. I think a big problem that stops The Batman from being above fine for me is the writing. A big thing is Bruce Wayne barely acts like Bruce Wayne. We see a glimpse of the real Bruce Wayne in a couple of scenes with Alfred, which primary take place when Alfred’s in the hospital, but for the most part he’s practically Batman all the time but without putting the voice on. I know Bale has received criticism for his Batman voice, but in the last two films they put an effect on his voice that made it more dark as he couldn’t naturally make his Batman voice darker without losing it as he did for Batman Begins, though that voice wasn’t as strenuous and he basically kept his bat voice the same throughout the trilogy, but altered to a degree in the last two films. Robert Pattinson did a very good job with the acting, so my critiques of the character are not his fault but the writing and likely even the direction to an extent. I think the acting is very good and the film itself is made very well, but the writing does hurt it. I’ve rewatched it since I got the 4K Blu-Ray and I still enjoy it fine, but I’m able to see even clearer as to where the writing needed improving, such as Batman solving the riddles so easily. I believe I had that thought after leaving the theater, but I guess since I did enjoy it overall I sort of excused it, but that shouldn’t have been something he aced the moment he reads or hears a riddle. He should have taken a bit longer to think what the solution was at times. It’s a well made film, a fine film, but I don’t give it a 10/10 after seeing it in the theater and then rewatching the film.
I thought it was OK, but I didn't rush back to see it and I haven't seen it again since in the theater.
Mediocre is the new great. I think that sums it up. I was happy to see a film that wasn't dripping with gender politics (only that little snippet about white men) and wasn't a CGI overload like the Marvel movies. Pattinson isn't a good Bruce Wayne and his mopey attitude is just too distracting to make it even a decent portrayal. Overall I think fans have been starved for quality content for so long they see anything a little above average as the second coming of Christ. Unfortunately they are too willing to overlook its shortcomings.
I ain't t apologizing 3 hours of this Batman...I finally forgave Robert Pattinson for twilight
And the Riddler was awesome. I love this movie and I love you all
Thanks for your critique yo haha love opinions and it ain't like you're wrong
There's a lot of problems, but it's my personal favorite Batman film. Just love the style, and the message of the story overall.
It almost feels like an indirect, spiritual sequel or answer to 2019's Joker. The first fight feels like a nod to the subway scene in Joker, like it's saying "this is what would've happened if Batman was around". But it takes the thought further and, with the Riddler taking Arthur's place in the vengeful villain role, it shows that a character like Batman might have led a character like Joker in the wrong direction.
There are not that many problems stop listening to platoon he is a joke and a pretentious film critic.
They leaned heavy into the Detective side and only really threw out the full Super Hero stuff for the end. I didn't mind that and there was enough action throughout to keep that itch scratched.
Even Shovel Face managed to do a good younger Batman
I personally enjoyed the film. I loved how they portrayed a young batman, and I really liked the depiction of Bruce Wayne, he hasn’t learned how to be Bruce Wayne yet, he still just wants to be Batman.
And the fact he overall lost clinging to a shred of a city sets up a future vulnerability and overall loss which would be more true to life
I feel like the argument against the armor being too high-tech could have been used for any first Batman or Ironman suit. We haven't been given more than a movie’s worth of this new Batman. By what standard is it too high-tech?
By the standard that he's not a creative, inventive technological genius who created his own armor and is just starting out?
Here's a question I have about The Batman.
in the scene where Batman and Selena find Selena's roommate's body.
they find her in a big bag in one of the villains( Falcone's?) car.
This appears to be about three days after she was murdered.
Were they driving around with her body for three days?
If so. Yuck. that would smell horrible.
If not, did they have the body stored away( in a freezer or something) but just happened to have her in the car that night?
If that, were they going to dispose of the body that night, but had to stop at this crime meeting first?
As I understand - they were clearing the place, so take all the money and body that was stored probably in some frige. Also not sure when exactly she was murdered.
@@firevex715
Like a lot of things in the movie, its muddled.
I thought that they were just at a meeting.
The events that transpire between her being killed and found made it seem to me about three days, but, since the days in this movie were just about as dark as the nights , once again, its muddled.
It was similar enough to be an homage but cmon, it was different enough to avoid being derivative. The Riddler was exposing a corrupt government but was propelled too extremism by a lust for revenge, Spacey in Se7en was exposing a corrupt humanity as he saw it and the cops allowed him to manipulate them in the end. One was a superhero detective story that somehow felt rated R but wasnt because of clever shots, set design and use of sound. Se7en achieved that effect conventionally with an R-rating and very well done, grotesque visuals. Batman had a romance sub-plot. Se7en had a buddy cop dynamic.
I enjoyed the Batman movie. I didn't watch Seven, so maybe that's good, cuz everything felt new to me.
r/woooooosh
Its not nearly as good a film as the initial praise. Its not a disaster, but its not great.
And Batman was never supposed to be a hulking bulletproof tank, its protection but he cannot just shrug off attacks.
Just felt like Batman could be taken out of the story and nothing would change. Am I alone on this?
How?
Yes you are. Absurd claim
Absolutely astounding how clueless you are.
Catwoman's costume in this was terrible. I literally could not stop making fun of her mask the entire time. Also her taking on Bruce was a tad laughable lol. At least he wasn't insulted for being a man. It was close though.
Seven is such a great movie. Younger folks should check it out
I don’t think the film neglected Bruce, I think Batman was neglecting Bruce, and I look to the audio logs and the conversations with Alfred for this conclusion. Alfred in most iterations of Batman, serves to help ground him, to remind him that the public eye is still important, you see this in the dark knight “Bruce Wayne needs to attend that party”, and in this iteration it’s all throughout, as Batman has never loathed being Bruce Wayne more, as in the philanthropic billionaire type that the public assumes him to be. This is also shown in the Nolan films but Batman (real Bruce) doesn’t show his loathsomeness as often, and I don’t think it a stretch for us to see that most of his scenes in public are very much him putting up a front, which also is what pushes Racheal away. The problem is not the writing, it’s Batman’s lack of understanding that yes he must uphold his image
The Batman misses the point the Riddler. The riddler is just a show off know it all with a superiority complex. The Riddler doesn’t care about “vengeance”.
Matt Reeves should have done Two-face if he wanted to explore a bad version of Batman’s “vengeance” being out of control.
The movie should have been about Sal Marioni disfiguring Dent after Dent almost exposes the Gotham Renewal act. And Dent goes on his rampage as Two-Face against every single person involved.
@@petermj1098 I like your movie plot idea, but the whole reason riddler is doing anything that he does is because of what renewal did to him. he says as much to Batman in his conversation and is implied to be the kid highlighted in the choir.
@@petermj1098 the superiority complex isn’t too valid, as he treats his followers like homies on his stream. It may not be an “accurate” portrayal of the character but that shouldn’t matter as opposed to plot and consistency, the dark knight didn’t have a very “accurate” representation of the joker either and look how it turned out
@@assistanttotheregionalsith8531 Heath Ledger Joker still acted like the Joker and didn’t care about his life and only cared about messing with Batman and making a joke out of Gotham City even if it kills him.
The Riddler is supposed to be an evil version of Batman’s intelligence. Edward uses his intelligence to commit crimes as the Riddler while Bruce uses his intelligence to solve crimes as Batman.
The riddler only wants to prove he can outwit ‘the world’s greatest detective’ with his crimes and riddles. The Arkham games did a way better job with a modern Riddler while still looking and acting like the character.
I would argue against the Batman having "no" character. He has some. Its subtle but its there which in my opinion is better. At this point there is no Bruce Wayne, he has abandoned that life so of course only Batman really exists. Bruce's absence is the key factor of Batman's character arc. He's detached from society and dedicating himself solely to vengeance disregarding the wider consequences. In his mind, his pain is all that matters because his parents were paragons of the community. He's self absorbed, rude and obsessed. By the end, he grows out of this as he confronts his dark reflection (the Riddler) - like a ghost of Christmas future deterring him from that solipsistic path. Bruce is the part of him that is concerned and mindful about the other people of Gotham - a distinction between justice and vengeance.
I have to disagree with you on the ending because I believe exposing and killing politicians and blowing up a city structure
Makes a lot of sense in the mind of a Maniac especially when this takes place on the 5th of November
I also believe that Riddler and Catwoman both suffered from a woke ideology
Because they were raised as have nots and had a horrible entitled sensibilities
But this is what I would expect of characters in a major city with the means to be those type of criminals in these modern times
It kind of blows my mind that nobody puts together the 5th of November thing
Overlong, pretentious tosh. The film thinks it's far better than it really is. All style no substance. Monotonous linear storytelling & endless dark rooms / alleys
Its pretty difficult not to get boastful when you have access to one of the most popular comicbook superheroes of all time. I felt for the beacon of hope, the movie was quite too dark when that is indeed a part of Batman and not all of Batman. The cinematography was great, but quality and storytelling for me was pretty predictable for the most part
@@Cognito47 agreed! you know i think the cinematography part has became a bare minimum these days. Like the flop movies also have great cinematography .it is something that most movies do to deviate people's mind from the average substance.
Or you know the movie is far better than your opinion of it. It has all style and even more substance. Linear storytelling is now bad? What? And it’s too dark? Ever heard of noir? Of what a city looks like during THE NIGHT?
Tf we now bashing linear storytelling lmao
@@minecraftgravityguy shut up, linear story telling automatically means its good story telling? Fuck off
It kinda came and went without much fanfare. I didn't see many people talking about it, neither positively nor negatively. One year later, it's like it never existed.
I should preface this by saying that most of what I know about Batman came from growing up with the animated series rather than the comics. I enjoyed the detective aspect of the film. He's supposed to be the world's best detective and that's never really come through in the films. Not that he was the "best" in this, but it was nice to see the shift in focus. And I thought that esthetically, they nailed the film's look. Regarding the ending, I wholeheartedly agree that it was a misstep, but what bugged me most about it was how visible it made Batman at the end. Superman is visible, Spider-Man is visible (pardon the hybrid universe reference), but Batman is supposed to be largely unseen, acting from the shadows. Apart from being a key part of his persona, it's also easier to suspend the disbelief that no one ever recognizes him when no one really ever gets that good of a look at him. But at the end of the film he spends who-knows-how much time helping the wounded, and he's seen in daylight, albeit only dawn. That was a bit of a stretch for me, even if Bruce is less of a public figure in this iteration than he has been in others.
yeah, good observation. the last 30 minutes of the film were such a disaster I hadn't even thought of that. Batman is relatively KNOWN to exist in that criminals get stopped, in that Gordon puts up the bat signal.... but to just have him standing out in the open infront of everyone is an odd move, and as some other video people have been denouncing recently. cameras exist. if your film is set in a time period where they are used and readily available, you have to account for them. Batman in the dark versus out in the open in daylight are the difference between a camera crew getting a blur and having his fucking face in every newspaper after every weirdly solved crime
Iv never really understood the complaints about Pattisons bruce, the story is set as year 2 batman, at this time bruce is still crippled with guilt and throws himself into being batman more then being bruce, he still hasnt learned how to separate the 2 personas and the movie is more about him discovering who batman needs to be, not who bruce needs to be
As for the car chase scene batman definitely escilated it into a car chase when he could of delt with penguin and his goons at the warehouse but that to me leads more to his amateurish batman and not making the best decisions to limit damage or casualties, as for the civilians they could of put in a scene where batman acknowledges the damge/possible casualties he caused
If you're not a fan of that nirvana track the soundtrack gets old REAL fast
i won't say the fanbase hates it with passion, i'd say they hate it apathetically, rather lackadaisically. It just at times lazy, dragging on and on, copying even shots and accentuated batman moments from the previous movie iteration. I would say it would be a perfect entry for a tv show on HBO max with its sluggish pace and tendency to low budget inhouse shooting style. Not that a sluggish pace and low budget inhouse is inherently a merit that qualifies an HBO show, all i'm saying that with its pace and shooting at times it resembles more a tv show rather than a feature film.
It indeed does suck. It only has some good cinematic shots going on for it but that's about it.
How are u a real person. Y’all are retarded asf the movie was amazing
This movie was beautifully, unapologetically bleak. It was magnificently horrible to watch. I didn't enjoy it at all, but I thought the time I spent watching it was not wasted.
I thought it was a story well told, and I never want to see it again.
The duality of man
I feel like the story doesn't get enough credit for how deep and multilayered it is. On the surface its a pretty great suspenseful "mystery", but peel it back a little and there's so many different facets to the characters that play a part in changing batman. Every single person in the movie is guided by revenge at some level. The riddler is guided by the revenge for what he perceives as him being wronged by the politicians, batman is guided by vengeance for his parents, catwoman is guided by vengeance for her mom, alfred is somewhat guided by vengeance for the waynes,Thomas Wayne was guided by revenge for his wife. All of these people guided by one thing, and at the end of the movie, when the random bad guy #32 repeats the same line that batman used with the "I'm vengeance", you can see how batman realized what was happening. That was the whole point why when catwoman went "you can stop now, you good, it's over" he just kept going. At the end, when he saves the people from drowning its the exact moment he starts doing something beyond vengeance. And then he lights up a flare, signifying him stepping out of the darkness (as he's said at the start he uses as a tool) and entering the light.
Another thing is when catwoman says the line about white privileged males and all that, people got all up in arms, and I'd maybe understand that if it wasn't used in such a clever way. First if all, it doesn't come out of nowhere, she's a modern black woman living in a big urban area, of course she's going to use those kinds of buzzwords. But the irony is that she's saying that stuff to the exact kind of person she's talking about.
Gordon shows him that there is good in an otherwise completely corrupt legal system.
Catwoman shows him that there is good in the otherwise crime ridden and corrupt peasants and plebs on the street level.
The black lady that's running for mayor shows him that there's good in an otherwise corrupt political system.
Also, the part where, as batman, he goes to the iceberg lounge with complete confidence and fights his way through, but later on in the movie, he goes back, but as bruce Wayne, and this time he's avoiding eye contact, speaks very soft, like he's not comfortable. It's showing that he's very comfortable and confident as batman, but as bruce Wayne, it's almost like he's trying to portray a character. Almost as if bruce Wayne is the mask, and batman is he, himself.
Now this could be only me, since there is nothing I love more in writing than deeper meanings and multifaceted scripts, but still, this movie is at the very least, good.
In conclusion, 4/10 he didn't say "WHERE ARE THEY!?!?"
The story is by far the worst part of this film. Its pure trash
@@DarranKern How?
@@DoofusChungus the simplest way to put it is that the screenplay is two and a half scripts smashed into one. It’s almost three hours long and yet the entire detective plot is childishly rushed. Because its not one plot but THREE. This film has more false endings than return of the king. For all the many parts of this movie I strongly dislike, the script itself is, by a million miles, the worst offender
@@DarranKern Yet everything has a payoff.
And the false endings work because that's what you're expecting, after he beats the riddlers goons, that's where it would've ended, that's where "vengeance" was done, but after that, like I've said before, he chooses to fight for something more, for hope.
Any specific examples that you didn't like? Because the script, imo was pretty good, as I detailed in my original post.
@@DoofusChungus literally everything you just said “works” absolutely does not work. Muh “subverted expectations” excuse is some Rian Johnson tier, pseudo intellectual thinking. Especially with the “we added thirty minutes with a tacked on terrorist plot, you know, for hope” even though it’s pointless to the rest of the film.
This film does *not* have any themes. Its utterly incoherent. The “did Thomas Wayne murder someone?” Plot was stupid. The falcone plot was the only one that made any sense. The riddler being a thinly veiled allegory for “muh right wing chuds, muh internet nazis, muh unhinged incels” was quite frankly disgusting. Either they’re dysfunctional whackjobs or they’re competent, elite terrorists. You cannot have both.
This movie sucked at least 70% of the runtime because of these problems and more. If this film focused on one plot, instead of spreading itself like incompetent slime across at *least* three plots, it would be much better,
Instead, it’s obviously been written, rewritten, and re-re-re-re-rewritten at least ten times by at least ten of the talentless hacks at warner brothers, and it totally shows. This is easily the second worst Batman film ever made and its a dumpsterfire. I could write dissertations on every flaw of this mess
The Dark Knight Rises isn't a "piss poor film" as you called it, if it was so many people would have hated that film ... The Dark knight films by Christopher Nolan are consider to be the best Batman films ever ,made , Dark Knight rises was highly praised by fans and critics at the end of the day it comes down to personal opinion.. and NOT fact.
The riddler is so dumb in this movie, I was half asleep half way through
It felt like Detective Comics more than it felt like Batman. It was an interesting twist, but like the video said, horrid writing, cramming too much, should have slowed down and done less with more. Actors were fine.
I agree with Dick. This movie sucked.
I also agree with some of your points. Especially in regards to this emo Batman’s personality as “Bruce Wayne”. I never thought of that and I’m glad I listened to this video.
I'm another that's somewhere in the middle on this one. The movie wasn't bad. I liked quite a bit of it... when it got around to do it. It's filmed well, scored well (if not memorable), and overall acted well... though I think it is paced... poorly. Batman spends way too many scenes slowly. And methodically. Stepping. Forward. For. Dramatic. Effect. Once, maybe twice, is fine. But nearly every scene he's not fighting, he just meandering around like a geriatric with who just took his 8th Vicodin. But otherwise, it's good... until after the Riddler is caught. The movie should have ended there, after their little interrogation. That panic moment was probably the best scene in the movie and would have served a fantastic 'but did he know?' moment to end it. But then... then it had go and have a second climax. Like the writers suddenly remembered it's the 2020's and they didn't have a massive fight scene to end their superhero movie, and had to shoehorn in one to tick a box, thus adding 40 minutes of bullshit like the world's longest mid-credits scene.
This felt like two movie concepts got mashed into one, and they forgot to edit the second one down to fit. This should have been two movies. There's enough plot here to easily fill two, and you could have the second still be influenced by the first. In their desperate attempt to erase the Snider movies and reboot what could become a new cinematic universe, they actually destroyed the potential for several connected movies. How very DC of them.
I understand preferances and you some guys might just dig slow burning detective type story of Batman who is supposed to be the world's greatest detective, and Gotham being the best itself in The Batman. But a lot of people calling it one of the best and calling it an actual great movie...
The detective part really was too slow and Memories of Murder, Fincher movies come to mind and set the standart much higher than this. In the second hour Riddler absolutely vanishes, then comes out with the most boring motivation. A Zodiac and Se7en rippoff. Plus, Gordon is fucking incompetent, Alfred's character having no arc or anything interesting whatsoever. I can give credit to Pattinson's Year One Batman , him being a rookie, him having whole Bruce Wayne the billionaire persona not realized. Catwoman being woke woke me up a bit , otherwise her relationship with bats is far-stretched and awkward. Falkone is pretty neat and Penquin is very good .
Those were character problems. What about themes? "Vengeance? No, I will be a symbol of Hope" kinda thing didn't fly.
Plotwise , it was too long an unravelling . Again, the detective part was too much for 3 hour movie. Honestly, if it wasn't for mediocre film script and an ok Batman- is-detective script , I would have dearly enjoyed my favourite character's movie.
Directing was as expected from Matt Reeves. Too pretentious prolonged shots, amazingly beautiful dark almost lovecraftian world of Gotham . And his work with actors still leaves a lot to be expected. Poor Pattinson got brewed in his Cobainesque gothic dark moody teen type of non-stop presence in all the scenes .
Score is on point. Giacchino delivers creepy dark tones to already creepy city, with maybe too overusage of main themes and jumpscare motif.
I am not comparing the Batman 2022 to other Batman movies simply because I have to . Different movies and , honestly, Reeves' movie would suffer greatly.
Another point to add about Hans Zimmer; He's A Pirate is outstanding, but I didn't truly begin to appreciate it until other people started covering it, sometimes with completely different instruments. Zimmer's instrument choice unfortunately seems a bit limited, and is mostly restricted to instruments that can only produce lower or deeper notes. I think that is what causes everything he writes to come out sounding growly or gravelly in his own renditions, whereas when other people cover it with different things, it's easier to hear the level of variety that actually is there.
I really enjoyed the first two hours. first time we really saw a 'detective batman" on screen. it was the final 30 min climax that was nolan level ridiculous without the lead up setting up the batman 2 or whatever.
first hour and a half is easy an 8 or 9 movie the ending brings it down to just about average for me.
still best DC universe film by Farrrr. but that's not hard
I don't think the ending was ridiculous. But it probably was unnecessary. Even though I loved the action scene. I think they could have saved those ideas for the sequel. Maybe make the sequel be about copy cat Riddlers rioting in the city. They made the first movie so intense, with so many different action scenes and cool ideas, that I think it will be difficult for the film makers to top this one.
The bat suit being plot armour is not so smart an argument, in my opinion.
Like you said, we see he feels the bullets hit, but why can he take crashing into a large vehicle? Because the armour is very durable. bullet proof, therefore protects from impacts, and on top of that he had his built in flight suit, so the fall and velocity were controlled and reduced in comparison to simply falling off a building and crashing into a vehicle.
The vehicle was going in the same direction as Batman, which also reduces the shock. And lastly, the strength of a bullet lies in a lot of force being focused in a small area with an aerodynamic and penetrative tip, while the vehicle was a flat, large surface that distributed the shock across a large area.
Now, he does bounce off a few times, but when doing so, the velocity is massively reduced as he travels from one object and direction to the next.
Lastly, as he finally goes forward and on to the ground, he is going forward in the same direction as the ground, sliding and rolling, which softens the fall a lot.
One technique to fall distances without taking much damage is by rolling as you land, this is a skill you gotta learn in the army and useful in a lot of sports.
Some people have survived falling off a plane, skydiving and having malfunctioning parachutes and still being alive after hitting the ground. He even limps away, if that makes you feel better.
I wanna say that "Why does he feel the bullets but walks away from hitting that bus?" is only an obvious question if you don't really know what you're talking about, because I feel that was totally survivable, buuuut at the same time I am pretty sure he hit his head pretty bad and that should at least have caused him to be on the ground for a bit longer, if not knocked some of his teeth and maybe nose (although his nose piece is probably armoured too) out of place.
For me, the biggest offence was the explosion, how stupid can he be to stand there and stare knowing it was about to go off... and also keep in mind his mouth and eyes were exposed and facing the fire. Perhaps it was so fast that it could not burn him. I remember him having a bunch of scars, so his physical suffering is shown, to an extent, but some blood here and there would have been nice.
Pointing out that this movie is essentially a 7even reboot is an example of why I watch ALL if this guys videos! I literally left the theatre and said… this movie is 7even… almost beat for beat, minus not coming close to the quality of ending.
Wasn't it Se7en? I thought that was the way they did the whole number/letter interchange with that one.
honestly i tried watching it twice and fell asleep both times. i like the batman movies, both animated and non yet this one didn't hold my attention very well
I liked your partners review better, he is clearly a big batman fan. I really warmed up to this movie after a second viewing. The message of dark vs light and hate vs love is fantastic.
Yeah it really taught me that loving people is good and hating people is not very nice. Truly a fantastic message LMAO.
Both reviews are hot garbage made by morons.
@@uhmmmFUyou have the comprehension skills of a 4 year old if that was the message you got from this film
You watched a different movie.
I thought The Batman was pretty good...up until the Riddler's capture and the enacting of his "master plan". Then the movie just completely fell apart for me, and what had up to that moment been a chilling villain turned into a screechy sobbing man-child with a touch of "the special".
The movie sucked, but I didn't full-on hate it until the obligatory "Rich White Men Are All Evil" scene. I'm so tired of this kind a crap being forced into every movie. Then, there was the same kind of idiocy we saw in "Kickass", where they try to tell us that this is a "realistic" superhero movie, then proceed to have people shaking off shotgun blasts to the chest, and 60lb girls beating up 220lb men.
The comic of kick ass is good the movie sucks tho. Anyway the Batman is still better then fatfleck at least