I Tiled this 2 Year Old Shower and It FAILED! Find out WHY
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- This is a follow up to a video I did where we tried to do a repair on a subway tile shower that was cracking on 2 of the 3 walls. We initially thought we could just repair the cracked tiles, but as we tried to remove the tiles, the cracking got worse and it ended up being too much work to try to repair.
In this video I describe what went wrong-- a combination of a one coat float (TCNA method B4441-14) with Aquabar paper behind it as the required cleavage membrane, and a soft bisque ceramic subway tile. Also, when I tore it out, I noticed that water had seeped under the Schluter kerdi drain into the mortar bed below.
We are re-building this shower at our cost, and are going to use all of our experience and resources to build the best shower possible for our clients.
Please leave your comments in the section below and find me on instagram @tilecoach. 
Развлечения
I have so much respect for companies that make mistakes and have the courage to share it with others.
A lot of "mistakes" is a problem.
It's extremely rare. But the companies that have integrity are worth their weight in gold.
@@jameslydon3314 what this guy said. A few of this channel's videos have popped up now. Rectifying your many fuck ups doesn't deserve respect, they need to stop fucking up 🤨
he's getting paid, so.....
yep thats right an i agree with that. We dont see that here at our country,in the contrary they would rip us off even more and go lie about it. Greetz from Belgium.
Make a mistake, learn from it, jump back on the saddle and go! We never stop learning and will always keep evolving! Great video 👊
Have you ever had any issues with schluter-kerdi products? Years on installation for me with 0 issues.
So we'll said. You would be surprised if you don't know already how many people refuse or just do not think like that. They continue to blame everyone and everything to prevent looking directly in the morror. That says lot about a contractor. This guy is one of the good ones. I have no doubt.
@@jeanclaudevandam4974 I think he is a good tile contractor too and it's good to see there are people that go back and make things right.
Have you ever learnt about a mistake and it cause a wide scale rework?
U have to find the studs and put some water resistance nails holding the chicken wire to the wall and that will hold the mud ok the wAll
Have to respect this guy, ill hire him any day. He stands behind his work.
Facts
Same. Wish I didn’t live 2000 miles from where he works.
Really??? A guy who thought staples would hold chicken wire , plastering compound and tile weight on the wall? He’d be laughed off the sites here in the uk this guy , he’s what we call a cowboy 🤠
If you do the job right and know what your doing, these situations should never happen, seems like dude verily had his license for a bit after working a year and did this project, plus he's literally licensed for only this trade lol
You are the biggest fan of the tilecoach!! Or you are the tilecoach?
The sign of a true craftsman is not only the job he does but additionally how he stands behind his work.
Amen
I've written your words down, could well become my motto.
I was skeptical watching this guy since his showers keep failing but its a very good learning experience! I applaude this man, very few people have the balls to admit their mistakes let alone post videos of it!
He doesn't post all his successes because you would be bored with that. It's like the nightly news, you would think that only bad things happen.
Much respect to you for taking responsibility . Too many of these jobbers will leave the homeowner hanging.Thats why you are still in business 20 years later.👍
Honest, responsible not afraid of admitting his mistakes this is what so called "professionals" are missing a lot
Love seeing someone care for their craft. The systems and tech we use are always changing and there is always more to learn. Thanks for modeling the spirit and integrity of a true craftsman!
You're a really upstanding guy. You stand behind your work. You did exactly what I would have done if I did tiling for a living and things didn't work out. I'm always amazed at contractors I hire for various projects who tell me "I've never had a problem" when I question the way they are doing something. They've never had a problem because they don't live in the house, and 5 years down the road they're long gone, the homeowner can't remember who they hired to do the job, or the house has changed hands. Nice to see someone like yourself who stands behind your work. By the way, you didn't make a mistake. You installed the shower using methods that were acceptable at the time, but in retrospect were obviously inadequate. Thanks for the video!
Man this guy got balls! I knew a bunch of contractor as a plumber myself that think they are perfect and never make any mistakes! Respect.
This gentleman is a class act. An example for all of us.
Isaac, Thank You; your transparency is much appreciated. Here on the east coast, the old-school wall tile method, dating to the 1960's was a perforated sheet metal lath (not just wire) attached directly to the studs, followed by the mud bed and then the finish tile. I've taken them down for remodeling, and have yet to see that system have a failure, after all these years.
Love seeing the fails and have even more respect for you to help others learn from it. Just shows you’re a man of your word!
I love these type of videos the most actually.
I like seeing this other 'dark' side of the job.
They are really very interesting and a great food for thought.
Thank you very much for uploading them and educating us all.
Top man stand by his work and his reputation. As a tradesman myself I see far 2 many examples of this type of thing then the installer washing his hands for the job. Credit 2 his profession.
You know what I like about your videos... your honesty.
We’ve all made mistakes. We’ve all learned better ways of doing things.
I also love the fact that you know the cost of doing something right is far more than the cost of labour used to fix rectifying a mistake.
Hats off to you.
I have learned alot from my mistakes. Alot of the time I thought I was right. As I've gotten more experienced and learned from people who are humble enough to share their experiences like yourself.I think you are a great example of what a good attitude is and I know your customers appreciate your responsibility. Thanks man.
Learn from the right people and this won't happen, try and cut corners and you'll be installing tile on drywall, omg fail, just stop ✋
Good on you for honoring your warranty. That is so important in our field of work!
He is a valuable asset to youtube viewers who are training in building design and other areas. This helps customers to know what to expect when they want a bathroom shower or renovate one.
You seem to be an honest man that stands behind his work. I like that. The tile contractors I hire lack all of the above. Thank you for the information.
Easy to see why you are successful! Winning attitude and customer service. I’ve been in floor covering 15+ years and unfortunately have replaced some of my work too. Sucks answering that phone call. Sucks going back and fixing. But here’s one good way I look at it. Your customer has enough respect for you that they want you to come back and fix it. You made The right impression on them and gained trust. That’s very rare and you should be very proud. Keep up the good work!!
John Steier 100%
No he just good at talkin shit
I ve had call backs too and it makes me feel like leaving the country, I hate it , especially hurts as I try my best to do good job and still something happens,tile center s or manufacturer s will always blame you too
Man I’ve watched a lot of your content and based my own install off most of it. I work with contractors all day and none own their mistakes like you do. A man of his word. Godspeed
Great job Issac takes a real man to admit his mistakes and these videos help us all thank you for showing us your failers as well as the successes!
Amazing man I’m happy to hear we got contractors that are honest and hardworking
Hey isaac! im a young tile installer in the sf bay area,i just want to thank you for all of your videos. It takes a lot to post things like this, but it definitely helps and shows what could happen with certain installation methods. Super educational, this is just a small bump in the road. You got this!
Are you a union guy
No i work for a private tile company!
Nice work Issac. Some of those approved tiling/waterproofing systems in America are really terrible.
In Australia, we only tend to use two methods:
1) For brick walls, we apply the cement render directly to the brickwork. Then generally a roll on waterproofing membrane over the dried render. Then we are ready for tiling.
2) For timber framed homes, 6mm (1/4 inch) fibre cement sheeting nailed directly onto the timber studs (I think your US equivalent is hardiebacker maybe?). Then generally a roll on waterproofing membrane over the fibre cement board. Then we are ready for tiling.
No paper/tar paper rubbish, no staples, no lath etc. Simple and effective.
I agree. That's the tried-and-true method that has last for centuries.
Schluter systems is a German company.
@@josephb3147
We do it all little different here in Australia, our Villaboard (6mm fibre cement sheet) never gets wet. Any areas where it would come into contact with water - it gets completely waterproofed (usually a roll on liquid membrane over the board itself.
Although yes - I do agree that any fibre cement product that gets continually wet does become brittle and weak over time. 👍
I would hire you in a heartbeat. Integrity speaks volumes. You never see if someone has it until the specific point in time its needed. Well done!
I think you’re an honest guy who stands by any of your jobs.
And have the balls to post the fails which a lot of people wouldn’t broadcast. Keep on pal.
So i have followed a lot of your videos. I have been Professionally installing tile in upstate NY for almost 15 years now. I don't fully understand these float/skim coats you put on all your walls. As a professional unless its a kitchen counter backslash I NEVER tile over drywall. Drywall is meant for paint and that's about it. To fully rely on that much weight on drywall is crazy to me. I ALWAYS go down to the studs in bathrooms. I put up 1/2" Hardi Board with both Glue and 1 5/8" Screws. I always tape and seam every corner with a Heavy Duty quality Mesh tape. then i do what ever waterproofing i am using. I have never had a call back or a problem with my tiling cracking or coming off. I like your quality of work you do and keep up the amazing videos! I look forward to all of your videos
Why don’t you use hardy board or cement board,
Fuck that plaster board in the b room or shower
Not a problem to tile over drywall. Where did you get that it is not acceptable practise. Normal approved practise in all Eu Basically. Only for public pools saunas and similar super damp applications you need glassrock or durock backer boards. If you have a problem with tiles over green drywall only 2 things happened. 1. Your framing was a problem or 2. You did something wrong with waterproofing.
It has been common to install green board and mesh tape the seams--install tile--grout and caulk with silicone caulk. In a tub situation this can last 10 to 15 years but eventually the paper separates and mold grows. You get stud rot also. what accelerates the failure is when the wall gets give and the grout gets cracks. At 10 years the person who did the job has vanished. The old wire mesh attached directly to studs and thick mud job has lasted 70 to 100 years. The walls dry out from inside as the moisture migrates slowly inward and the cement does not degrade any more than sidewalks do if there is no freeze and thaw cycle. This is for the New York City area.
Thanks for showing the mistakes. We all make em, even though some don't admit it. Best you can do is learn from it and build it better.
I learned tile on the go from my last boss. I really hope none of the showers I did have this many failures 😬. Your a good man to fix your mistakes.
Mad respect from you TileCoach! I am trying to learn the trade (so far 5 years "in training") and you are great to reinforce my learnings by watching!
More jobs in the near future. I have encountered this everytime I had to renovate lately. I like the easy tear out.
Kudo's to you for backing up your work.
anyone who can admit faults and come back and re-do it, is a good thing. Too many people just don't want to say "I screwed up" to anyone.
One of the most humble people on here and providing amazing insight and knowledge. Thank you.
Thanks for these videos that relates to the schluter system. It's confirming my " what if's " I had years ago with this system.
Love and respect the work you do keep them coming I love learning from you
My god. Do you know how many showers in walnut creek are done exactly that way. It was the way we did it before hardie and wonder board was invented.
Isaac, your a good man to take the time to educate people you will never meet. You are protecting customers, DIY’ers and installers from financial disasters.
Thanks for your honesty and integrity. Not too many guys like that today.
This dude is always making videos about his failed work 🤣🤣 I live the honesty but do it right the first time , cut no corners and you'll never fail!!
Exactly
Agree 100%. Durock has been around for many years. Common sense tells me if you don't anchor your wall it free floats and falls right out.
But then how will he make RUclips money?
Kickass. Ardex 8+9 the whole f’in thing and it ain’t gonna leak again baby
I just discovered you today I looked at you several years ago I think. I like your honesty and your integrity I'm in the state of Minnesota. I'm designer and Junior Architect by trade. I started learning tile from one of my brothers who is a tile artisan. I like your honesty and your integrity keep up the good work sir. I only tile maybe every couple of years. Great job sir
Again...IMHO the most honest and humble tile guy on YT....maybe in the country!🥰
Joel, you are single handedly improving the industry with your dedication and hard work. I know filming adds so much more time and effort to the job, but it is vital to everyone. Thank you so much.
Don Lindell who is Joel? This guy’s name is Isaac.
@@EDHBlvd Basically if your in northern california dont hire contractors with the name joel in it or your shit will look like this.
I love your videos! You really stand behind your work! To me it seems like you have a lot of trouble with your mortar bed substrates.
Is there a reason you haven't switched to kerdi board or even just hardie/durock with a topically applied waterproofing membrane? I've never had any problems like this
issac - much respect your way dude. your videos are awesome and informative and owning your mistakes is king!
LOVE your acceptance of growing. So refreshing.
Recently started watching, seems like every job he does he ends up taking a mulligan on it. Atleast he’s honest and showing his mistakes
At least is two words. Learn it, use it, and don't ever do it again.
Tile showers might be the toughest thing to install. I’ve seen shower with whatever system used perfectly fail after 4-6 years. Water is a bitch.
@@terrismith9095 Did you train under Heinrich Himmler or Adolf Hitler?
I am what would you expect to see for all his successful jobs? There would be nothing for him to tell.
@@neilkurzman4907 yeah there would be lots to show. It’s called a successful job. He could show before and after and explain what he did.
Look how easy you made the tear out for yourselves
Thanks heaps for putting these videos out, not many people admit to there mistakes let alone film them. Keep up the great work 👍
Alot of tile guys do work of what they were shown how to do it when they started from older gentlemen. And they stick with it and run with it. And in there mind they think that should be the only way of doing it. But the ones that venture off and think common sense and dig in on how step by steps are supposed to work and why and then they put there twist to tweak the imperfections to prevent failures are the ones that succeed . I can tell over the years how much you growned and by doing experiments and how you think before doing. Shows signs of a true craftsman. And especially a man standing by your work and doing the right thing by fixing your failures.
Cement backer board, that’s the only thing I use on every install. Never have a problem.
I agree, I use durock/permabase plus a waterproof membrane on all my tile shower installs!
Me to and the water proof tape
You are correct, that's all I use also , I wont use dry wall at all , and I won't use a hot mop pan il use a cast iron shower pan only, and I dont take my cement board all the way to my pan either , I dont need water wicking up the cement wonder board il use water proofing all around the base of my cast iron pan!
Yep! I use hardiebacker with 3 coats of Mapei Aquadefense, gauging fabric on all joints, corners, plane changes. That plus KBRS pans means I haven't had a single call back or warranty issue in 10 years of installing showers.
Exactly!!!! Paper? Drywall? Foam?
Man here in michigan, we use durarock backer, no drywall. we been doing that for many many years. Those standards in cali need to be reset lol
i lived 30 years in michigan of which we used only durock no issues ever ,, now i live in az , so many usless standards lol
I’m not a tile guy and I’m not in the building trades. I’m a DIYer and I LOVE watching your videos. VERY informative!
Taking care of your clients like that. What a class act. Subscribed.
Dude I feel for you on this one. Way to stand up 🤙🏼 I never knew why drywall would be acceptable in a shower, regardless of what goes on top. I always cut out the drywall and install durock.
Perfectly acceptable to have green drywall. Durock is better but Europe there are 100 000's of green drywall installs with few failures if the waterproofing is done properly.
Lubomir Klinga I understand that it’s acceptable. But having come across several shower failures in the past, in my opinion I won’t use it because I feel there could be a failure with the papers adhesion to the gypsum. Overall I would choose to go with a fully waterproof board, not water resistant. Haven’t we seen such tests on this channel with shower pans? Wet drywall (moisture resistant or not) equals mold and or gypsum erosion. No worries just my opinion 🤙🏼
@Mr. Ocean: How do finish the durock above the tile? Since you can’t use texture like you do on sheetrock.
@@majstrujeme8352 So you are talking about waterproofing the green drywall and then attaching tile to it?
@@coolramone I tile all the way to the ceiling.
His profit margin on the jobs that don't fail must be really high to offset these failures.
Float mud over drywall and install tile over gypcrete in a supermarket? I don't get it.
Tough break. Thanks for sharing hard earned lessons. Much respect!
I think you are a great man to go back and fix a failed shower and to stand behind your work. God honors you Brother
The more of these vids I watch the more I'm leaning toward installing a one-piece acrylic shower in my bathroom remodel...
One-piece or tubs.
That’s ugly.
Yup...but do hear about 'em having to be ripped up a year later?
AZCobraman yea because of ugly asf they are we go tear em out and give the clients something that surpasses their expectations
Those rookie days.. live and learn.
He was 17 years into his 20 in experience
Your honesty is impressive.
Respect for turning your failures into lessons for others.
The mud showers that I tear out ,just have black paper and wire mesh , back in the 70s . It has a lot of nails. The mud bed on walls a lot thicker 3/4 or thicker. I have been using that system check out Michael Byrne books, and his old video he great teacher highly respected in the tile industry.
I agree. We used felt paper and lath nailed directly to the studs. Put a scratch coat over the lath. When the scratch coat dried then we floated mud over the scratch coat. Been doing it that way since the 80's....Showers are still holding up, even with soft 4-1/4 tile......
30# felt is amazing stuff. I've opened up several 100 year old baths. The wire lathe may be long gone but the feltpaper is still intact, despite being exposed to water.
That paper is so anti intuitive I’m amazed anyone ever thought it would work!
California standards baby lmaoo. Where everything is aloud and expected to fail haha
Nice that after 2 years you still warranty the shower & regardless of the costs your incurring......you’re making it right👍🏻
Awesome customer service & company “ethics”...
this guy is an example to how a contracter should be. hats off to you sir !
It seems like the systems used in America are unessesary and destined for failure. Especially the waterproofing systems.
Why not use fc sheeting , sand and cement mortar base for shower recess ( wait for moisture content to be low enough) waterproofing membrane over walls and floor ( with neutral cure joint sealant) then tile over top? Not relying on multiple different substrates to "hold" . This is how we do in Australia
The drain and waterproofing tied into it (from Kerdi) is actually a German product.
Would it have been better to use cement board instead of the paper-coated board? I'm not a tile guy in the least, but I find this stuff fascinating. Your work is outstanding.
Yes. Concrete Board would have been better.
TII
Well you have to give you props. Most tilers would not show their mistakes and come back out and fix it for free. I wish there was more trades like you. Great videos!
Yeah! Standing behind your work is why a company stays busy. Good for you! Top notch integrity.
huh.. its almost like it's optimized for removal and remodeling.
Here in socal we always tear everything off to the studs. Inspectors here wont pass a wall with chicken wire. And we use 1 inch crown staples 3 to 4 inches apart. Just knowledge being passed along
At home depot they sell double paper welded wire. Use this instead and you will never have a problem. We hot mop then diamond lath the pan and run the lath up the walls so there is a continuous support. This help eliminate any cracking from the pan and the wall
Love the honesty here mate - that’s the way we also run our business ! Unfortunately a lot of other blokes would have ignored the clients calls. Well done !
Thank you for showing us not only how to tile but how to own up to your work!!🤙🏽
I love watching these videos, but its confusing sometimes. I've been a GC for 15 years. I've NEVER had a tile issue. I live in canada, and we have very crazy climate changes in Toronto.
I like to use the durock cement board
It’s what he should’ve used to begin with.
Thank you Isaac for doing what you preach. That's what real teachers do. God bless you.
You are awesome, thanks for all your videos, they have helped my company make super happy clients
This is not a good install originally, not sure how anyone thought this would work....
Unfortunately, a lot of industry money influences what is "acceptable" work - and a lot of contractors are more then happy to go with the methods that are the cheapest/fastest regardless of whether it makes sense. Used to see it a lot in the subdivision developers...
That doesn't mean there isn't new techniques or materials that are good. I love engineered timbers like LVLs and i-joists. I prefer the Kerdi system for showers as opposed to mortar beds. Fibercement is a wonderful material... However, most of them take about the same amount of time as traditional methods and often cost more.
Cant find any contractor that provides any kind of warranty here in rural Alabama. Might as well do it myself, mess it up, tear it out, learn my lessons, and do it again.
Find a good stand alone shower cabin, and all these problems evaporates. Also consider an automatic electric dehumidifier instead of relaying on ventilation so much. Then you even can get away with a bath on particle board floor for many years (that's not long term solution though - works for years still I have found out).
Find a good stand alone shower cabin and all these problems evaporates. Also consider an electric automatic dehumidifier ($100?), then you don't have to relay on ventilation so much. If you are careful, this might even work on particle board flooring without a drain for many years.
test 2000
Duelling Banjos,
Squeal like a pig
I do all my tile myself.
Step 1 -I use cement board, tape and mud my seams.
Step 2 - I Apply Red Guard over the surface as a waterproofing membrane.
Step 3 - because I like to precut all my tiles, I make a paper template of my walls and then I can plan and easily see my tile layout.
( I am not a professional but I love DIY. )
Step 4- I have found having the paper template makes it easier for me to precut and number all my tiles before I begin the laying process. I am a visual person so laying out the tiles on the ground makes it easier for me to know my tiles will fit easily without having to make multiple trips to my tile saw.
Step 5- I apply mortar to the vertical surface, I then back butter all my tiles and then I use a tile leveling system to keep spacing consistent and avoid lippage.
Step 6- remove spacers and then apply grout
Step 7- install fixtures and caulk
If you do these things your tile will look amazing but it will save you alot doing it yourself.
Mistakes don't make a Man or a Company.
Positive Response & Correction does.
You Sir, have conveyed that ideal, ever since I subscribed!
This video is the greatest example of your ability to diagnose, remedy and complete the challenge.
I have much respect for you & all of your efforts.
Diagnose, remedy & move on.
Great video!
TII
Always a great moment with you. You will rise above the error. Cant wait for your next video. The paper and lath method has been used for years however it does not mean it was foolproof . Thank you.
this isnt lath. He used chicken wire. HE should use lath but chicken wire is easier to handle and cut
Amazing. At no point during installation, did you not think this would fail? I could have told you that at the time you said you were going to try this method 😂
thats why we used furring nails into the studs back in the day
Still when you have wire inspection they want to see the nails no just staples
Wow, at least it came apart easy! Can't wait to check out the rebuild
Respect dude! You did the right thing. Onward and upward. If I were the homeowner I would pay you for the difference in the scope of the first job vs 2nd job.
When i float I always fasten the wire lath to the studs before I put on the the float
seems like a no brainer
Looks like chicken wire and not galvanized wire lathe. Wall mud will not bond to gypsum either unless you flat towel thin set first.
Use real Metal lath, not chicken wire! with 'nails into the studs' and long staples over green board works fine, won't fail. The cracking has to do with the mud mix likely being too rich cement to sand ratio or just too much movement.
Your showers are completely different than what we are required in Southern CA. We do vapor barrier to the studs, then mesh, then scratch coat, then final coat which ends up about 1 inch thick. You would never be able to tear one out as easily as you just did, because ours are stapled to studs not drywall. I personally have never had a leak in 30 years (knock on wood) doing it the old school way. It is tempting to want to try out some of these other ways, but if it aint broke..... Its nice that you are actually showing us a failure you did, and I enjoy all your videos.
Fair play Isaac for your honesty and integrity…👍
How could anyone think that would work in the first place? I like that he owns up to his mistakes, but makes you wonder.
He's more interested in making youtube videos. Paper and mortar don't mix.
I went with cement board and never looked back. I can't believe people use green or purple board on showers. All that is, is drywall with moisture resistant green or purple paper to it.
Good to hear. I did my first shower 3 years ago with cement board. Did 4 more since then all using cement board. Hope they last as long as the owners want them to
@@Bennysol it should be fine for years and years. Cement board is the only way to go for showers and bathtubs. Had my shower redone with cement board. 12 years later, zero issues.
That's awesome you are showing learning lessons. Good Job.
Great video. Love the honesty and integrity. Keep it up!!
Hopefully, no more showers will go down the drain.
Bahaaaaa datts funnie😁
You never float over drywall if you're going to the and one more thing float a shower you need to put 60 Minutes paper up on the studs of the shower and then metal lath and then scratch it and let it dry 24 hours and then float the walls that's why your showers keep failing if you keep putting the paper and the chicken wire on drywall 15 years of experience and tilting bricklayers Local 4 Southern California
Props brother, we are all learning everyday.
You sound like a great person to do business with. I'm in Socal and every contractor I've worked with has never fixed anything as they always say it was not caused from their work. Ends up and cost homeowners more money for things not done correctly. Keep up the good work.