Was James Harden Trade Worth The Swing For LAC?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- The James Harden trade was the most talked about trade of the NBA season. After a year of the Harden experience as an LA Clipper, was the swing worth it? The Clippers DID win more regular season games but only won 1 more playoff game.
In this episode, die hard Los Angeles Clippers fan and Host Darian Vaziri dicusses the move and where it puts the team going forward.
Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…
🎧 link.chtbl.com/LOClippers?sid...
Locked On NBA League-Wide: Every Team, Fantasy, Draft, WNBA & More
🎧 linktr.ee/LockedOnNBA
#Clippers #LosAngelesClippers #NBA #KawhiLeonard #PaulGeorge 
Спорт
Harden did his part in the Playoffs. Kawhi wasn’t available. PG didn’t step up like his team needed.
Yeah he did his part by dropping 7 points on 2/12 shooting in game 5
@@4ktkaram395 With Kawhi being out, both Harden & PG needed to step up. Harden’s Playoff averages were up from his regular season averages. But PG’s numbers came down during the Playoffs.
@@Oridginale24 I agree with u that PG was terrible but harden wasn’t great he disappeared in the final 2 games but what can I do about it. We’re just gonna run it back and likely flame out
@@4ktkaram395PG was supposed to be the number one option but he stayed where he was, that's unacceptable
@@sydguitar99 he’s sucks to he should stick to podcasts
Lebron is better with kawhi than harden because after Lebron pass the ball he cuts and is dangerous in the paint. Harden takes to long to pass and after he pass he is useless . And on defense Lebron is wayyy better.
Good episode Darian! It’s a done deal now, so can’t go back. But we were 3-1 before the trade was announced and I believe we would have beaten the Lakers, but our guys in the package were gone.
The real pain is that Bones 🦴 was playing great 👍🏼 coming off the bench for Russ. His development and confidence… we may never know what it could have done…
Hell tf no. I woulda kept Russ as a starter and trade for a pg like Tyus Jones and Deni then see if u can get a solid pf.
Legit move the guys u moved for Harden for role player replacements instead of throwing all yo beans into a mid 30s James Harden
optimism doesn't cut it no more ; no trade will ever look good as long as kawhi isn't healthy
If I didn't love that guy the most (PG13) then I would be okay. When you now consider that we gave up SGA for him then it hurts even more. Never mind Kawhi, I'm sure he never thought that PG13 wouldn't stand up like this I mean come on. Then I believe he wouldn't have been this insistent if he knew. Over my boi PG so disappointed.
It’s not about if Harden played well or not…. Gotta compare team success before and after…
Harden wasn’t needed IMO.
Harden def made the season fun during certain parts but clips def did need a PF. I think it was worth it. Def gon be an era we will all look back at years from now so let’s just go down with this ship lol. Best believe ima be raging throughout the season though need some young bucks
speak for yourself
I don’t hate the harden trade. The play making definitely helped but he isn’t worth a max contract at all anymore. If the clippers are going to resign him I’m hoping it’s low money. Otherwise let him go. I do wish we kept Martin instead of including him in the trade. Maybe we can sign him this offseason
We don't know for sure if RoCo would have been injured had he stayed. The two-headed monster of RoCo and Batum could have held down the 4 spot well.
Training camp was about defensive effort and pushing the pace with Russ at point. It looked like it was working as we were 3-1 after 4 games. I don't think we could have maintained that pace with the Russ, Terence and Bones backcourt. We would have eventually settled into a PG, Kawhi, Norm half court offense. But I would rather have seen how that played out and still have those picks to rebuild with than Harden. PG would have played inconsistently either way and Kawhi might still not have made it through the season.
👍🏾🫱🏽🫲🏿
Harden or Westbrook is not a winning player, and that includes PG. So it is even worth the trade with these 3 players. They are old and have no sense keeping them. Get young players instead.
Zubac has the frame to pack muscle and be a presence underneath dah basket but he plays soft and complacent where he is right now. He ain’t hungry to win.
Team wasn’t wining a championship before the trade anyway . It got the clippers closer to a title. The issue is unless you get Jokic it doesn’t matter if Kawhi is never healthy
That pj contract is expiring so it might have some value at the deadline for a team looking to clear cap space
how do you know the first part
Funny as it might seem. Package Paul in a sign and trade and get Dort from OKC and pics. We need an elite wing defender and Paul would offer OKC an elite scoring option who can play defense. Maybe get back some of our picks back, I know it's a long shot but worth it in my estimate but it's on OKC. Definitely they probably still feel hurt but this is business.
Was not worth it in my opinion because didn't help us get any further in playoffs and it didn't allow development of our young players like bones, BBJ and KJ Martin if we would have kept him. I enjoyed our team at beginning of year as we Roco was finally getting run and our defense was tough. Tired of all the bs clippers talk about but never follow through. They talked about being faster and relying on our defense the whole off season only to trade for a guy who slows us down, made us older and disappears in playoffs. So we shouldn't have pulled trigger so early and allowed guys to play more before because russ never got opportunity to run the point with 1st team. Only can go forward now though be interesting to see what moves they make.
i agree man
Some of us were hoping for Jerami Grant and Gafford..
Grant is terrible, he doesn't play well with other star players
You don't think Grant played well in Denver?
I'm just asking because i thought he was pretty good there but i have never been a Jerami Grant fan.
For me he is too much of a "tweener"
He's a 3/4 hybrid that doesn't excel at anything in particular on either side of the court.
He's a really good basketball player and that has value but in a cap system, i just don't see him as a $20+ mil level player.
I see him more along the lines of a high end MLE player, around the $9-$14 mil level.
Probably best suited to a #4 role in an offense but for me it's the other side of the court that's problematic...
Defense and defensive rebounding.....
Defense and defensive rebounding are part of The Clippers weaknesses that need to be addressed and Grant solves neither of those issues.....especially at the salary he commands.
Plus on the offensive end he is just not a top scoring option unless you increase his volume of shots but on a team with Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, James Harden, and Norman Powell, are you really going to increase his shot attempts?
I think from a "value" perspective, The Clippers can get close to Grant's perceived or projected offensive production(next to 3 stars and a top 6th man) and maybe get a better defender/rebounder, for a lot less in cap money.
@@sammyslam1 Grant is a good help defender and can get out and run.
@@realdiallo224 ...no doubt.
I'm just saying at the salary level he is at, in a capped system, does he add value?
Personally i don't care what players make but in a capped system you have to look at everything.
If you are projected to pay Kawhi $50 mil, PG $48 mil, Harden $35 mil, Zu $12 mil, Mann, $12 mil, and Powell $18 mil, that's a little over $170 mil i think?
Where does Grant's salary fit?
Which of the above players would Portland even want(if there was a possible trade)?
I just don't see the value of Grant for The Clippers.
Like you said, they need a solid help defender that can run the floor. I think you can get that for somewhere between the vet min of $4 mil and PJ Tucker's tradeable expiring salary of $11 mil....of course this player won't be as good as Grant but with Kawhi, PG, Harden, and Powell, to me that is enough scoring....
The Clippers need inexpensive role players!
@@sydguitar99 uh he literally beat us with other stars you stan
It is the westbrick trade that failed!
that wasn't even a trade lol
Never shoulda had WB and Harden again that was a mistake Russ was just fine as a starter then they ruined it by adding Harden.
Clippers were projected to win 44.5 wins at the beginning of the season according to Vegas sports books. Not a 50 win team prior to the Harden trade.
who cares
This need of a tradicional point guard that is a ball hog is only good if your wings aren’t the best player in the team . Kawhi is him so don’t make sense if harden takes to long to give the ball. Like the mavs have a balll hog in Luka , but the wings is PJ Washington and DJJ they ain’t ball handlers and don’t mind not having the ball . It’s best to have guys that ain’t ball hogs like Lebron and Ingram with kawhi cause all 3 will have the same fair amount and they pass fast.
Imagine what Kawhi is thinking? Won't lie I could be accused of being a Kawhi fan boy however you are telling me, all these guys who want to be paid as me and parade as superstars need me to do everything for them to come to the table? Nah fam. It's funny how people say that the Clippers made the Conference finals for the first without Kawhi when we all know he wasn't there just for the last 2 games against Utah and he had predominantly handled Luka for us to even get to Utah 😮. Nah fam lose me with that. Of course Kawhi's health needs to get better then those 2 guys need to be on mid-level exceptions and we can have a bigger rotation.
The Clippers didn’t have any other option but get Harden… and they still overpaid for him.
The FO should have kept at least Batum or RoCo at least
With Morey lying to Harden last year, getting him to take a cheaper deal maybe tough especially if PG leaves bc then Harden will have leverage
Batum def better than PJ Tucker
I gotta say dime harden played well did his part it was paul george who did not step up man i loved lou williams reggie jackson the bubble sucked but i miss that 2019 team rhat almost beat the warriors
disagree man he had 2 great games
Hey Dime next season you should come to Vegas for a watch party with fans!
Gave up valuable future assets, no f'in way.
The new cut looks great Dime 🔥 Im commenting early, but I think I he Harden is worth it if he resigns on a pay cut. If not, then wasnt worth it.
Starting the episode with the comment. Yes, yes it was if Kawhi had been healthy, even if he wasn't but if PG had stood up when we needed him the most.
you needed to assume he may not be
Yes, but i always thought with Harden and Westbrook at this stage, you needed youth to surround them. Zubac benefitted to some degree although you cant count on him offensively. Thought he would be a 17 and 10 guy and it didnt happen as consistent as needed. End of the day, the front office is banking on the old guys when youth is needed. Doesn't help their draft strategy is drafting four year guys yet not playing them much lol.
I am one to say the trade was not worth it based on value.
I think if the team advances past the first round opponent without Kawhi Leonard or Paul George then yes, there is some value in that but being eliminated again in the first round, while giving up depth and assets, makes the trade a miss, strictly from a value point of view.
It's my view that The Clippers were projecting(based on a very small sample size) to be a 50 win type team, without the services of James Harden.
So i don't see the regular season value and clearly we didn't see a postseason value.
I would say the trade was not worth it based on value...
Clippers were projected to win 44.5 wins at the beginning of the season according to Vegas sports books. Not a 50 win team prior to the Harden trade.
@@gilbertl.835 ...i'm not sure i agree with those projections.
Based on the very small sample size of 4 games, the team was looking like a 50 + win team.
I understand .750 basketball was not likely sustainable but something close to .750 was in my view.
I think the team had a chance to be both a top 5 offense and defense, with the depth they had, the length on the wings, the extra shooting, and the bench with Bones, Mann, Powell, and Batum looked incredible.
.700 basketball over an 82 game season is around 56 wins so even if the team fell off its opening pace of .750, i don't believe it completely falls off that level.
@@gilbertl.835 ...i tend to agree with Dime.
It was best to allow the team to play up until the all star break to properly evaluate the team's needs.
@@sammyslam1 That’s your opinion.
It wasn’t based on a 4 game sample size…
Those were the projections by all the major sports books prior to the start of the season. They were projected to be a 44.5 win team as constructed prior to the season start with no Harden.
@@gilbertl.835 ....the team did play games without James Harden to start the season.
That is not my opinion.
The team won 3 of its first 4 games, which is .750 basketball.
That is not my opinion.
The team was top five in both offensive and defensive rating.
That is not my opinion.
What is my opinion is that those preseason projections appeared to be wrong and under-valuing The Clippers roster.
I do take into account opening the season with 3 bad teams(San Antonio, Portland, and Utah) and 1 playoff level team(Orlando)
That's why i say .750 was likely not sustainable for a full 82 games but .650-.700 was definitely plausible, which is a 50 + win pace.
We already know that the Kawhi/PG duo wins around 70% of the games they play together, so i think those preseason projections were projecting around 60-62 games together for the Kawhi/PG duo...
That's reasonable given their recent injury histories.
The team was better than they projected(that is not an opinion, it's just a small sample size of actual games played)
NO IT WASNT WE. GOT WORSE THAN LAST YEAR
I get being frustrated about the whole situation with this franchise, but why lie about something so easily disprovable? We were 7 games better this year than last year, and they had a 26-5 stretch with him on the roster. They obviously got better.
Fire Lawrence Frank
well that isn't true
Zubac must go, need a quicker center,
i mean replacing him with who? just to accommodate date these old hags?
@@LockedOnClippers that’s for the Clippers to figure out we need quicker centers with quicker reflexes & another forward or guard that can score, I can start throwing out names but that’s only wishful thinking, Mavs picked up the perfect pieces why can’t we
@@48ways62 the perfect piece is a healthy Luka
It was. It was the best chance we had to win. Kawhi wasn’t available, PG isn’t who we think he is in big games. Now they’re all a year older and we blew it.
getting james harden never gives you the best chance to win it all
Yes James harden trade was worth it . The unprotected pick sixers got might turn out to be Josh Jackson , James wiseman , or Marvin bagley
Lol
no because we can't rebuild or re-tool now cause we have to re-sign his old ass
Yeah it was worth it, who knows what could have been had kawhi stayed healthy.
But I know a lot of clippers fans aren’t going to want to hear this but Russ has to go if they’re going to keep James and PG. Playing Russ off ball automatically makes it 4 on 5. It’s just not going to work having a shooting liability playing off ball.
His contract is for only 4m....
I'm not sure i agree with that analysis.
If we are looking at the team strictly from an "if Kawhi is healthy" perspective, i think one would also have to look at how Russ was playing in his role when Kawhi played.
I think Russ was really valuable off the bench for The Clippers and should be considered one of the keepers, if the trio of Kawhi, PG, and Harden are returning....
If you include Russ, of the four over 30 vets, Russ is still one of the most athletic of the three and still plays with the more modern pace.
When you consider "value" at a $4 mil vet min salary(if he opts in because he wants to be a part of a championship contender in LA) i think he adds a ton of value....
I think if this season is a "run it back" season, then i think you try to build it around Kawhi, PG, Harden, Russ, and Norm.....and try to get as young and athletic as possible around those 5.....
I think the 26-5 stretch has to be taken into account "with Russ" as a factor.
If that's the stretch of basketball that the front office is looking at, then having Russ as one of the team's reserve members has to be taken into account.
@sammyslam1 I hope Russ leaves and goes to a team that will utilize him very well.. what the clippers don't get is that this new NBA is all about pushing the pace and scoring un transition with Harden. we will never be able to keep up with the Wolves, Okc Mavs, Denver etc
@@armstrongedo8505 ...yea as a fan of Russ i am a bit torn.
Really the only thing left for him to accomplish in the nba is a championship which may or may not come, as a starter or reserve.
Right now i just don't project a gm that would be an advocate for Russ' impact as a starting point guard even though i can make a case for him to be a starter on a contending level team.
Also what i know about the nba is, once you have shown you are willing to be a vet min reserve, that is where you are likely to remain until you retire or there are no more offers, even at the vet min.
I think he has only one advocate at the head coaching position(Billy Donovan) and i think Russ may have blown his opportunity in Chicago by choosing The Clippers after he was bought out by Utah.
The emergence of Colby White probably has Bulls management focused on him getting 28-34 mins per night....
On every contending level team i only see Russ as a possible reserve, so i think for him and his family, staying in LA, playing with Kawhi, PG, and Harden, and for Coach Lue, might be his best and last shot at an nba title and probably the best place to finish out his career and retire.
Personally i would love to see The Clippers go with Kawhi, PG, and Russ, with 13 role players but management really loves James Harden's game. I think Coach Lue was fine either way. He respects both Russ and James, as do I.
@@armstrongedo8505 ....here are the teams that i think "should' consider Russell Westbrook as their starting pg.
#1) Los Angeles Clippers.....i thought the starting lineup with Zu, Roco, Kawhi, PG, and Russ was going to be very very good with a really strong bench that had Bones, Mann, Batum, Powell, Theis, Coffey, Martin Jr, and Plumlee.
#2) Phoenix Suns.....a KD/Russ reunion just makes sense to me. The Suns don't have an intense competitor like Russ who comes highly motivated every night. I think both D Book and KD are better when feeding off a highly competitive player(like when CP3 was there) and i really love the idea of Bradley Beal as a 6th man.
#3) Miami Heat.....one of my ideal environments for Russ is Miami.
They just have that grind and compete mentality which seems perfect for Russ' personality type.
I understand people would not like the idea of three non three point shooting threats in a starting unit(Bam, Jimmy, and Russ) but for me i think an emphasis on defense and transition offense could balance that out, the other 2 starters would have to be knock down shooters though....
#4) Chicago Bulls......Billy Donovan is a huge advocate for Russ so the minutes, the opportunity to close games, the return to a respected veteran's role(ala Mike Conley in Minnesota) would be there for Russ i think but i think for it to possibly be successful, The Bulls would have to move out a quality young player(Colby White) because to me, adding Russ means you are trying to make the LaVine/DeRozan pairing work.
With a projected starting unit of: Vucevic, Williams, DeRozan, LaVine, and Westbrook, i think The Bulls could push towards 48-52 wins....
It doesn't quite project out well without DeRozan's efficiency as Russ, LaVine, Williams, and Vucevic are not highly efficient players.
#5) OKC Thunder....why?
I don't think Josh Giddey pushes them to another level. Russ could return to the place where fans adore him and respect him, The Thunder can get a veteran point guard that excels in transition, and this can all be done with Giddey still on the team, so The Thunder don't lose any depth by adding a veteran. Russ could also just assume the reserve pg role but plan on retiring in OKC rather than LA.
#6) Los Angeles Lakers....why?
Value. Russ' time as a Laker was seen mostly through the lens of $44 and $47 mil dollar salaries, at something much less that that, fans won't be as volatile and Russ can either start or be a reserve.
Also rumors are Westbrook advocate Scotty Brooks may join the Lakers coaching staff, which was supposed to happen under Coach Vogel.
#7) New Orleans Pelicans.....with Zion and a bunch of excellent three point shooters, i see Russ as a near perfect fit in New Orleans because i believe the best player, Zion, would be even better in a faster paced offense.
I'm not sure where this leaves CJ?
I don't like a smallish backcourt so Russ and CJ would not be a pairing i would go with, but i would like BI with this group.
BI's half court efficiency makes this work because as we know that's a Russ weakness.
If you think of Zion and BI as being an offensive version of Kawhi and PG, with quality three point shooters on the wings, it begins to look a bit like the 2022/2023 Clippers offensively and Russ was great with that supporting cast. Now The Pels would just need a center that can space the floor.
Yes
If KL is healthy, if PG steps up, if if if🤮
Brandon Ingram is better than Paul George in everything but 3 pointer, I’m really down to this trade
Nah bro BI is hurt all the time and disinterested on d. At least PG plays d.
@@shanmusic161 PG only play good D sometimes, and we have the bench to rest the starters
I would say No, because they were no better off than they were last year with the trades before Harden.
thats not true in terms of results
Should’ve never traded Reggie Jackson
what? lol he was done
Yes its worth it! Clippers traded for Harden to facilitate, not to carry the whole team. It is not part of the plan, neither they envisioned that Harden will carry the clippers team. the plan is to help Kawhi and PG, and make it easier for the team, that is Hardens job, to facilitate and score a little, a little. Now you are expecting Harden to carry the whole team which is crazy, he is out of prime, Harden did his role in the playoffs. Blame Kawhi for always being injured.
I disagree
he just hogs the ball and makes everyone succumb to playing off of him and that isn't exactly what I consider a good team concept to win a ring
Next year I dnt wanna see Kawhi in MVP conversation. His only priority needs to be his health in the playoffs and trust Harden PG n Russ to do the rest.
The Clippers should try something radical with Kawhi.
I haven't looked at the data myself but maybe their medical team can find out the minutes breakdown for when Kawhi tends to break down?
So let's say including the postseason, his avg is 50 fully healthy games(just doing a hypothetical here, i'm sure the math can be done properly)
If you avg the mins per games he normally plays and say that's around 36 mins, then you are looking at roughly 1800 total mins right?
Those 50 games would have to include the possible full 16 postseason games at around the same 36 mins per.
That projects to only playing 34 regular season games which is nuts but is there possibly a way to double that to 68 regular season games, which is reasonable, while reducing the regular season mins per game?
In other words, could you play Kawhi Leonard 18 mins a night through a 68 game regular season grind, giving him 14 full nights off during the regular season and then bump up his minutes come postseason time?
The way i am doing this is 34 regular season games at 36 mins per night which is unacceptable versus 68 regular season games at 18 mins per night, also unacceptable for the highest paid player, but maybe pragmatic if his body breaks down around the same times of the year like clockwork...
In other words, look at total mins on the body rather than total days...?
Then increasing the mins per game to 36 strictly for the postseason run(stamina could be an issue but maybe addressed in a different fashion)?
I am a firm believer in minutes restrictions vs full nights off but in cases like Kawhi's, both probably should be considered....
I don't know the answers but damn, this man is generally really good in the postseason, it's a shame we haven't gotten to see him for a full postseason since 2019/2020
@@LockedOnClippers they all coming back u clown. What section are u going to be in this season. I’m pulling up now. After whining and moaning on Twitter about me coming at u. Look at u being disrespectful for me sharing a basketball take about the team. Drop the section and row bruh.
Yes Harden balled out.
CANCUN CLIPPERS!!!!!!!!!!!
we have a different definition of balling out
@@LockedOnClippers He did his part. Why are expectations on dude through the roof I just don't get it. Won you guys 2 games in playoffs vs Dallas who is in finals. Overall stats were fine. People are acting like dude is a #1 with crazy expectations. He's not in his 20's anymore but the expectation is that he plays like it. CRA
How bout the other clippers step up? Westbrook gets a D- or F grade in this years playoffs. Others underperformed as well.
This team isn't going anywhere fast. You know it's true. I'll be there to watch everything go down if Harden stays and he will.
Russ dissed Law Murray. Law Murray never said nothing good bout Russ so dont believe it
Im done with PG and harden. Let’s get Lebron and Brandon Ingram, way better on both ends .
no they should have kept covington
He's unrestricted, so they can sign him as easily as if he had not been traded.
I think they want to get younger and more athletic so i don't believe they will pursue Roco this offseason.
Kai Jones and Kobe Brown are young power forward types that should get really close looks and i believe even Moussa Diabate should get some looks at power forward.
Are there better young athletic power forwards that will be available at around the vet min of $2-$4 mil?
I'm not so sure.
The Clippers could flip PJ Tucker's $11 mil expiring contract for a power forward around that salary range but who is that player?
I believe whether James Harden or Russell Westbrook is the pg, The Clippers should probably risk playing either Kobe Brown or Kai Jones at the 4....
Looking around the nba i just don't see a power forward in The Clipper's price range, at least not a perceived difference maker.
If the trio is going to be Kawhi, PG, and Harden, i believe that will be close to $120-$130 mil of the available cap.
If the team retains Mann, Zu, and Powell, that's another $40 mil.....
So six players will be making almost all of the available cap....not much left for the other 9 players.
The good thing about a possible reunion with Roco is "value", it's possible he might come for the vet min, but does he trust Coach Lue?
Agreeing to the vet min would allow him to play for any of the contending level teams with probably more guarantees about playing time.
I say get younger and start a young player next to the star veteran trio
They ty lou was not playing Ro Co any way ! So what's the point .it's like ty lou had a personal problem with him ! .
@@brianwilliams3700 ...right.
Why would he even want to come back or even return to Philly where he wasn't in the every night rotation?
It seems to me that if he is going to play for the vet min, he will want to go somewhere where they are telling him he will get minutes on a contending level team right?
Somewhere like Phoenix, Milw, Miami, Denver, New York, etc.....
Lots of contending level teams right now!
problem is he got hurt
Lebron, Ingram and kawhi is way better bro
Thanks news highlights sports highlights RUclips highlights develop live