6V and 12V starters
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- In this video I will talk about some of the problems people face when they switch tractors or vehicles over to 12V.
We find that it usually starts with issues with the 6V system and they believe converting to 12V will solve their problem. If the conversion isn't done through out the entire tractor or vehicle including the starter you will still have problems.
Take a few minutes with me and let me show you what needs to been done if you are considering a 12V conversion in your Rig.
I want to leave you with more information on the Braking System in the 12V Starters. I can't stress enough just how critical it is. This link will take you to our website for the article. heielectric.com/starters-dont...
Leave your question or comment below and we will do our best to respond. 
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Can’t count how many H and M starters I have had come tru my shop with busted nose and bent shafts. Finally a true explanation of six and 12 volt systems.
Thank you very much for all the details. I have a ford industrial 4000 and was going to change it to 12v. Not any more, now knowing the speed in starting has a difference.
Great info. Never gave that lock washer tid bit much thought but now I know better. It was worth watching just for that.
WILLIAM, THANK YOU FOR REPLY TO OUR VIDEO. AND WE ARE VERY HAPPY YOU LEARN FROM THEM .
Same here, thank you.
Good video. Helpful information.
The later model Ford 8N starter draws between 100 and 150 AMPs with six volts applied, when starting a warm engine. You would need a cable with 0.06 ohms, if the source voltages applied is 12 volts. 100 Amps flowing across 0.06 ohms resistance will drop 6 volts. 12.7 minus 6 volts equals 6.7 volts applied to the starter.
A 150 Amp draw would drop 9 volts. 12.7 -9 leaves 5.7 volts applied to starter.
A starter rebuilder can rewind a six volt starter to handle 12 volts, which is the best option.
Straight forward and to the point! Thank you for taking the time to share your information.
Great video thank you
I would like to take the time to Thank You for this video,,I was beating my head against a wall trying to figure out why my 6 volt starter had no power to turn over the motor with ordinary 12 volt cables,,I had #1 cables made and I can now start all I need , had soldiered on ends put on too . I ho0pe more people listen to this video . Thanks Again
Answered a lot of my questions, thank you. I'm going ahead with 12volt conversion. Hope I can find a proper 12volt starter that will do the job.
Great information! Thank you so much.
Thankyou. Saved me lots of trouble and frustration
Glad it helped
Thanks for the video. I'm changing my 860 to 12 volts now. I am putting on LED lighting, electronic ignition and would like EFI at some point, so 12v is the only way. I've seen others saying there are no changes needed on the starter. I guess I'll find out. As long as the only harm is to the starter rather than the ring gear I'm not too worried if I trash a starter over time.
Thanks for watching our video. On your starter, Remember that changing it to 12V will make the starter turn at twice the speed. At that speed it could cause a damage to your flywheel.
Superb info - thank you.
Thanks Larry for this video. One thing not mentioned is cleanliness of ring terminals to studs. I have a 6V TO30 Ferguson that for a long time was very slow cranking and couldn't figure why. Quite a few years later decided to take out start switch and inspect. Not only were contacts pitted, but also had minor oxidation on terminals. Replaced switch, cleaned terminals and greased. Now it cranks & starts beautifully. I did know about Lock washers scraping, but never thought to put them under the terminals then the nut. Thanks also for that information.
I also have a 53 Ford NAA with the starter same as shown, and it is also 6V. It's sad people with start problems think 12V will be better. Always best to use the tractor as it was designed. If it's hard starting, do a little research and discover why.
Thank you for taking the time to leave a comment. Although we have mentioned how important clean connections are, you brought a good point to our attention. We should mention the importance of keeping terminal connections clean in every video pertaining to such things. Great advice. Keep those 6V’s going 👍
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC Thank you also Larry for the reply. A long time ago I had considered converting to 12V, but couldn't find an inexpensive 12V Generator. Would have had to swap my pulley as my belt is 11/16" wide. I'm am a little surprised Vintage Restorers stick an ugly 12V Alternator on their tractors as many web images show in hopes of better cranking. As you know, designers did a good job back in the day with 6V systems and they work when maintained.
I own three six volt machines. 1949 Buick, 1936 Buick, 1942 Ford 9n, Never had cracking/charging problems! Very strong applications, you just need the correct wiring, very CLEAN terminals and grounds! They are just as reliable as 12volt. Even in the cold weather, my tractor starts right up (5 degrees out). Good strong battery, no issues! They were made so well, that's why we antique people still use them! Nice video (KEEP THEM Original).
Robert Psarudakis Thank you for your comment we do believe in keeping them original if at all possible.
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC Just like tonight, I had my '49 running and the battery got weak because I was doing a little transmission work, and it got vapor lock, throw a charger or better battery on she fires right up!
Robert, what brand and model
Of 6v battery are you using that you are finding so good, reliable and long lasting ?
@@georgiabigfoot Just the regular Exide 6 volt battery I get from my local Tractor Supply. They are really good batteries for the price, just maintain the water and keep a Battery Tender on them, they last you 6-8 years I found! Start even in the cold weather.
Excellent, thank you.
good info.
Please Forgive us......we want to apologize to everyone that left comments (questions / concerns / etc) that we didn't respond to. I guess we forgot to enable All Comments when we first uploaded our videos. We did not intentionally ignore your comment. So, if you bare with us, we will do our best to reply to your comments even if they are no longer helpful. Again, we apologize.
Great video!
Note that a 6v system correctly maintained will provide good service. Key points are starter is in good condition (not burnt, bushings in spec, brushes in good shape), battery is in good shape, starter switch is in good shape. But by far the least considered factors are that the starter cables are no less than 2 gauge - these are FAT wires that will carry the amperage, and that all connections are soldered, clean, and bright. Jumper cables from "Parts-R-Us" are not going to cut it. If these points are adhered to, your 6v starter system will work just as well as a 12v. I have a 6v system on my Cat D2 pony motor and it works very well. By maintaining the 6v system, I did not have to change out perfectly functional parts like the generator, regulator, bulbs, etc.
UserName You are correct, if a 6 V system is properly maintained it works as good, if not better, than 12 V. Thank you for your comment. We love 6 V systems and do our best to keep them maintained.
Thank You Soooo Much..!
I have a generator, shop when I tell customers what your saying they don’t believe me. I too like 6 volts. Not many rebuilders left that repair generators.
Yes, we definitely have our non-believers too.
We will be doing a video on our 1950 Dodge Coronet GyroMatic with her original 6V system. She purrs like a kitten.
If you haven't already, please consider subscribing to our channel, and hit that little notification bell right after you subscribe. This way you will be notified that we have uploaded new content.
You are correct, there isn't many rebuilders in our trade left anymore. We enjoy meeting those that are still in the business. If you would like us to stop in sometime, let us know. We travel and stop in from time to time to visit for a bit other rebuilders through out United States.
Thank you for your comment. Happy Rebuilding ;)
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC I am working on my 1916 Metz Huckster, first year they had an electric starter. If you’re interested in old equipment we are having a National Antique heavy equipment show and Prairie Plowing Days here in August. If you look up Prairie Plowing Days here on RUclips or Facebook, lots of good stuff.
Dang i have T020 starter with broken nose cone and just ordered one and just noticed i ordered 6v but i have 12v on tractor guess ill have to return it when i get it
I took note of the heavy battery to starter cable you recommended. Should I use a similar gauge cable from the battery to the bell housing-mounted starter solenoid? What about the battery to ground cable? BTW, I'm working on a 9N that has an unresponsive starter. Thank you Mr. Hagemeister.
We are definitely leaving the 6V cables. Way more skookum for 12V.
Good info.
I'm considering adopting a Model A ford, that's been 'converted' ~ I doubt the starter has been done, haven't tried it yet. I'm inclined to switch it back to 6, but it does have a 12V alternator now. I'm wondering if just a big resistor can solve the problem, or perhaps a string of 2 or 300 amp diodes in series would drop the voltage enough, for the starter, horn, and wiper motor, those being the 3 things people don't seem to worry about when the 'upgrade' these cars.
this might explain the welded nose-cone on my Lincoln red-face...
Yes, that very well could be
Thanks for making this video , my 49 8N I bought, unknowingly at the time of purchase had been worked on by a team of monkeys with ADD, and they threw away all the 6v components when adding 12v parts. My starter brushes are worn out though, and I’m about to replace them with a tisco brush kit. Is this a waste of time now that I have a 12v battery, 12v coil, and 12v solenoid in place ? Should I purchase an aftermarket 12v starter for my 8n ? Or will a 12v aftermarket starter still turn too fast ? Is there anything I can do in rebuilding the old 6v starter to make it so it doesn’t turn too fast ? Trust me I wish I had all the 6v components but I don’t
A 6V system can be good for an older car, but one thing it's not good for is powering an ignition system that can put out a hot enough spark. For that you need a 12V system.
We don’t have any issues with our original 6V systems. They have been maintained and work great.
I have mf t030 and its driving me crazy can please do a video on what and how to resist from 12v to 6v so not to destroy the 6v starter! I can find everything on how to do the alternator and kit but find nothing on going from 12v to 6v starter that have to crank on and not burn the starter up!!
Easy, use two 6 volt batteries side by side.Put one circuit in series(Run) and the second in parallel (for starter). That way, you start in 6 volts and run in 12 volts. Don't forget to use heavy duty cable for the second battery ground and positive to starter.
Unfortunately you cannot resist that kind of current draw the starter has. Need to go inside the starter and rewind the field coils into series instead of parallel that would make the starter 12 V. *There isn't room for 2 batteries on that tractor* . If you have anymore questions, please feel free to give me a call.
Man I wish Ida new you before I bought a old ferguson to20 same thing 6 volt starter 12volt System an now the starter just runs wide open
One more question: I noticed that some of the replacement starters offer an accompanying solenoid. It looks like the common Ford automotive starter solenoid. Do you recommend using and additional solenoid? I thought that the starter switch mounted on the bell housing was a sufficient sized switch to not require a solenoid.
8N starter solenoids mount on the starter and your 9N does not. The starter in the video is an 8N. I hope this answers you question.
Very informational, I have a 6v system that they had change to a 12v I have had no problems yet but it sure dose suck the juice
Out very quick. I can not find out how to change the 6v starter to a 12v starter without taking it to a shop. Any Ideas
Unfortunately you would need to send it to a shop to rewind the field coils or replace them. When you are Ray to do so, we can help you with this change. Give us a call.
Larry - What's the best "shade tree" way to reduce torque on a 6 volt starter when it sees 12 volts? I've seen a number of "modifications" to the brush lead circuit.
Nice to hear from you. I will contact you tomorrow.
Hi again Larry. I was following a thread on Yesterdays Tractors Ferguson forum and a person had a 12V converted TO-30 with a blown up starter nose. Question: Is there anything the operator can do to a 6V starter for it to work with 12 Volts safely ?
Not really. The best thing to do is buy a later style starter which is 12 V. Hope that helps.
Every original 6v vehicle that I have seen from the 40's and 50's had larger battery and starter cables than the original 12v systems on later years.
That’s absolutely true. And it makes such a big difference in how the entire system works.
Is it possible to install a 12v to 6v inverter so you don't need to modify the field coil? Cheers
Dale, I assume you are talking about a Ford tractor generator? If it's an 8N Ford generator that has “A” circuit field, we have a voltage regulator that will work on that system (generator) to go to 12v negative ground with out any changes to the generator as long as it’s in good working order. But to answer your question, no an inverter will not do what you are wanting to do. Thank you for your question - Larry Hagemeister
Can i make electric scooter ny 12v stater battery?
12 volt tractors just work better. And since it's 12 volt, it doesn't need that big wire anymore.
Always thought buy 8 volt battery.makes 6 work better and think 6v system still charge it?
There is not an automotive / tractor manufacturer anywhere that has ever made an 8V Electrical System. 8V batteries were only meant for 32V Systems. I hope this helps clear things up.
I have one in my 860 and it sucks. Would not recommend for exactly what you said. It does not charge the battery. I imagine a tweak of the generator might correct it, but I'm just going to switch it to 12v. I have a number of other things that require 12v so it's an easy choice.
I have a question, I have a 1949 Mercury 8, you recommend keeping it 6V I would love to keep my baby all original as it is but I would like bright headlights and don't see jot to accomplish that without converting to 12V, any suggestions?
With the battery fully charged, run the engine at fast idle with the headlights on and check the voltage right at the headlights to make sure it’s close to what the battery voltage is. See if there is any voltage drop. Please let us know your results. Looking forward to your findings.
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC Hello and thank you for the reply, I have been really busy with work but since your reply I bought a brand new battery to ensure that isnt part of the issue, I have yet to check the battery cable gauge size and I have to run through a few things else on it such as spark plugs and checking the points in the distributor as it has a hard time turning over and when started a hard time staying on, it also has a 6v fuel pump that sounds like it is struggling and someone added a 4 barrel holley at some point, the holley has a 12v choke that obviously is not connected. I have my work cut out but rather than converted I would still like to keep it original, thank you for your time and advice and will update you as soon as I get time to wrench
Yes, please give us an update over your project is complete. Thanks
I got a new 6V starter for my 8N and run a 12V battery, To reduce the strain on the starter I made a 8 gauge 14 foot battery cable.The cable drops 2 volts and I measure 8 volts across the starter when cranking. Wish me luck.
So what has to be done to a 6 volt starter to survive 12 volts?
You would need to Install 12V field coils or rewind the 6V coils into series.
How can you Identify a 6 or 12 volt starter visually?
You have to look into the field case, the field coils are in parallel in a 6 V system. In a 12 V system the field coils are in series.
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC Well that explains my problem, I have a 12v setup with a 6V starter. Would running a much smaller cable to the starter directly ease the stress on the bendix? Thank you.
Unfortunately no 😔 changing the cable size will not solve the problem.
So what is the answer is there a 12v starter that can be used that will not cause damage?
Depends on your application. We do offer a 12v starter.
Yes there is.
How do I know if my Ferguson is positive ground?
Steve Tollenaer your “Ferguson” should be Positive Ground. On The ignition Coil the + (Positive) should be going to the distributor and the negative goes to the key switch. Hope this helps
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC Thank you so much.
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC The battery was removed and wasn't certain
Ok, so you’ve shown the horrors of changing to a twelve volt system and what it does to a starter. You kept saying that nothing was done to the starter. You never explained what you are supposed to do to the existing starter to make it 12 volt compatible! Nice to know on the one hand but still in the dark on the other.
We apologize. You would need to change to 12V Field Coils
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC How much does that run?
He explains what to do above. You need to read the answers he gives on the posts. You have to modifie the field connections from parralel too desries.
You talk no changes inside of the starter Just battery cables
We weren’t talking about converting a starter, we were talking about making sure the cables going to the starter are the correct size for application (6V or 12V), this is where many problems start.
No help at all!
this guy is really mad about 12 volts
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. Would you mind elaborate in a bit?
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC you seemed to get really mad about switching over to 12 volt, i just thought it was funny, you seemed really tore up
6 volt sucks
NOT TRUE :) > They didn't make 6V systems in all vehicles up to 1955 because it didn't work. To make 6V work properly you need 1 GA Cable and crimped battery connections. The battery ground should be hooked as close to the starter as possible, if not, then through one of the starter mounting bolts.
@@HagemeisterEnterprisesINC Auto manufacturers likely switched to 12v to save money. Wires are higher gauge (cheaper), etc.
Good info.