Christianity is the greatest thought control system ever devised. A religion designed to keep its adherents constantly feeling guilty and trapped in a co-dependent relationship with an invisible sky-daddy. Not to mention the Church's obsession with repressing women's sexuality.
It’s like a scaffolding that’s installed in your mind at an early age that suppresses your naturally capacity for empathy and ethical processing. It attacks your imagination and it brings you no happiness and robs you of your ability to see a world beyond it. In my case my mind would literally attack me every time I exercised my erotic and romantic imagination. The pernicious thing about it is that it gets in your mind even if you have only a casual acquaintance with fear-based Christianity as a child. The idea of hell burrows into your brain like a worm without you noticing.
My relationship with God was like living with a narcissist 24/7. Constantly praising him, telling him that I was no good compared to him . Everything that was good that happened to me was because of God and everything bad that happened to me was me or the Devil. God didn't take credit for the bad things. If you look at it God's very insecure and needs to be constantly reminded that he's powerful.
So thats why he brings negative sh**, to try n bring you closer really The BS just push alot of us AWAY from god. Knowing God is not real. God woulda done something about something by now or it aint a God. a Fraud
She is right about religious thinking making you a magnet for charlatans, and con artists. It really is like having a neon sign that says, "I am a target, come take advantage of me".
Tim, until I left my Mormon church seven years ago, I never knew how closely comparable born-again Christians and true-believing Mormons are. I am now 82 years old and would be glad to share my journey out of Mormonism and into agnostic-atheism with you. By the way, I am a retired college professor who once taught sections in my world lit classes on the Old and New testaments.
@@Scott-t2p I had elevated emotions and other things that kept me close to the church, but I have no reason now to believe the feelings and emotions came from outside my body.
Thank you for sharing your perspective, Barry. I am finding that I feel quite manipulated by the church service. I’m half your age but I hope to live to your age with my own agency.
@@Scott-t2phow do you know what a "spiritual experience" is? Buddhists, Hinduists, Daoists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists, even drug users and schizophrenic people claim to have had spiritual experiences. I've had them too, and I've had many, and I know they aren't trustworthy because I grew out of them and saw them for what they are: products of the suggestible, imperfect and biased human mind. If you come to judge others and believe you are the gatekeeper of truth and a mind reader, don't expect any welcoming.
What relationship or agreement doesn’t have conditions??? Your husband doesn’t protect and provide does he love you? If he cheats on you constantly does he love and will you continue to love him and stay in the relationship??? NO!! Exhausting is people wanting to do and say whatever they want to God and have his unconditional love even while being disobedient.. not saying this is you particularly..but speaking in general. All relationships, covenants, contracts, agreements have conditions. It’s a two way relationship not one way. So what exactly is exhausting ?
Thanks so much for that, Denise! And thank you Harmonic Atheist for providing a place for people like her to share their stories. I'm her little brother, by the way, so I can say with some authority that Denise is truly wonderful person. Her kindness and tenderness toward others has served as an aspirational model for me my entire life. She deserves so much, including this opportunity to have her voice heard. I know she is eager to lift up heavy hearts, and parricularly those of fellow former Christians. So, again, thank you!
This hidden religious abuse has been going on for centuries, the “core” of all religion is fear, fear exploited by vicious unscrupulous people. Survivors who managed to escape are the lucky ones. My maternal grandmother was a devout Catholic, went to Church, ran committees, taught at Sunday school, donated very generously (grandfather was wealthy and left her a huge portfolio). Grandma became I’ll, couldn’t get to Church, no one from the Church even inquired about her or even offered to pick her up to go to services. I took Grandma to the hospital to get some tests done, by this time she was confined to a wheelchair, at the hospital see saw one of the Priests she knew, they chatted and we went to have the tests done. By this time I was living with Grandma to take care of her, my sister was also living with us to help. I came home from work and my sister, who had come home earlier than me, told me Grandma had a visitor, a Priest. Stupidly, I was happy, thinking that at last her Church was reaching out to her. I should clarify, both my sister and I were, by this time, “unstated” atheists. The Priest finished his visit and left. We had the evening meal, we still, at that time, ate in the Dining Room, over Dinner one of us, I forget who, asked Grandma about the visit. I’d never heard my Grandmother curse, but she let loose a mouthful of bad language, then went on to say the Priest had given her a pre-prepared Will for her to sign, leaving everything to the Church when she died. The next day Grandma called her lawyers and made an immediate appointment for a new Will. That Priest visit cost the Church about $5,000,000.00, she wrote the church out of her Will. It seemed the visit breathed new life into Gran, she lived another 12 years, got to play with her Great Grandchildren and even do some travelling. She left her Estate to a Trust, for the welfare, health and education of her descendants. It’s become a bit of a thing in our family, to repay the Trust for money given to help, things like deposits on a house, education, operations or even a gap year in Europe. The Trust has a committee and no committee member can sit on an application concerning a “direct” relative. It gives a great sense of security and has allowed family members to “go for it” in a number of situations. Far better than a religion, to my view.
I read a book by Karen Armstrong about the history of abuse of women in the Church, especially the Catholic Church, which she came from. It still carries on like that despite the 18th century Enlightenment and better education in the past 200 years. But these ex fundamentalists attended private Christian schools or were home schooled, so they weren't educated properly. On becoming a fundie I was brainwashed into believing that I should reject most of what I was taught through my state school education.
Love it when you said I am a mature Christian now, but I am not a Christian. Yes, I am free too now to have unconditional love for others, so amazing! Love your voice and sweet demeanor. I can relate to your anxiety. You are so beautiful!
Some parents know exactly what they’re doing when they “handicap” their kids by rescuing them and/or not allowing their child to develop coping skills and independence. Not saying this is what happened with the guest but it could be. My mother did exactly this to make sure she was always needed and could maintain control of us into adulthood.
Thank you! That is the message I was trying to convey. It's not as if it was intentional (hopefully) but our helplessness gave a double heaping of service to my parents because not only would we rely on a god but would rely on them too.
imagine growing up with parents who demanded from u to apologize every day for being a piece of garbage...for being an evil sinner. for not being worthy of being in THEIR house. and if u didn't, u would be condemned to the basement for the rest of eternity. what would u think of those parents ? how would u feel? would u feel loved and accepted? u would probably feel like garbage for the rest of ur life. which is exactly the point. there is no love in fear. "u woke up from ur coma because we were praying for u"..... i never understood the concept of praying for someone. so if they didn't pray for her, God wouldn't have helped her? he only helps people based on the number of people who are praying for them ? and why does an almighty being need a corrupt sinning human to tell him who to help? shouldn't he have already known she was in a coma and needed his help without humans needing to tell him ? just makes no sense "God will punish sin"...this is incorrect. he punishes non believers. if u sin and repent, ur good to go. so he's not punishing sinners because heaven will be full of sinners. we're all sinners the day we're born. he punishes people who don't repent and don't believe. hell will be full of good decent people who questioned a 2000 year old story while heaven will have rapists, murderers etc who said "sorry"!
Its amazing what you have said, "there is no love in fear." I totally agree! Scripture actually also says this in 1 John, There is no fear in love and perfect love casts out all fear. The TRUTH is this; Evil "Christian" pastors throughout the years have mistreated what God is. By reading ancient scriptures with a Modern Western American lens is how we result with the false Rep of God. I find my self getting extremely angry and blasphemous with a God im realizing is not even the right God
According to Protestants, you are correct. But according to Catholics, wicked Christians go to the hottest layer of Hell while good non believers go to the mildest layer of Hell where there is no suffering but still separated from God for eternity
Everytime I watch your videos, I think they are way too long. And then I catch myself watching every minute till the very end because the stories are so interesting and you ask so many good questions.
Thank you Denise Powell for being brave & sharing your story. You are as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside. And thank you Tim Mills for having her as a guest. And thank you dear Tim for telling the story about your mother (about her saying she wanting to die because you deconverted & about her going to heaven & you her child going to hell ect...) I went through the same thing with my grandma & other family members. Thank you for making me feel that I am not alone. Thank you both ❤❤
Great talk as usual. Denise reminds me of me in a lot of ways. Really active imagination, grew up kinda hopelessly naive, some difficulty connecting with other people in specific ways. For me it eventually lead to an autism diagnosis. Funny enough, it wouldn't have happened had I not also been wondering at how Trump can be so obviously awful and still get support. I was looking into antisocial personality disorders with narcissistic tendencies when a video on adult autism diagnoses came across my plate. Couple of years later and here we are. Funny what life throws at you. That aside, I'm amazed at how positive Denise is. Having dealt with my own history of manipulation and of abuse, maintaining a positive attitude about meeting other people has always been a struggle for me. Yet I can't claim any experiences even close to what she described. Really impressed at her resilience.
Analytical thinking is the key but losing the cushion of believing in that higher power was the hardest thing to deal with! I still believe there is definitely something beyond this life because I’ve experienced that…energy never dies.
Yeah and who do you think created that energy? “ let there be light “ … like I tell others like yourself.. start from the top. Read the Old Testament, study it and pray. THEN try the NT again. Much of what western culture thinks they know of God and theology is wrong. Especially Christian’s. The God of Israel is most certainly real and beyond just “ energy” . God is the only NON created thing. Everything else has a creator. Everything..I’m sure you’ll find him outside of what Americans call “ Christianity “ and there 5000 denominations. You’ll read the gospels differently and Christ will lead you to the father. The father of all creation. 🇮🇱
I’ve just discovered your channel over the last couple of days and it feels really therapeutic. It’s very “post-Dillahunty”. I was getting really depressed by angry atheists winning the same arguments against apologists over and over again just because they seem to be addicted to stress and conflict. I love Matt and the generation that came after and we owe them, but it’s time to move on and just celebrate life.
The common denominator I’ve found in these videos is that the individuals almost always have zero understanding of the Old Testament /Torah … it’s all New Testament gospel confusion and church and family hurt. . Christian’s are the only people who Start reading a book from the back first. Then they walk away throwing the baby out with the bath water per say . I blame western religion Baptist tradition for this. Seek God for yourself .. He is God , he is real he is ONE and no God next to him. Who sent his image, the messiah Christ to redeem his people. I tell people you can know God WITHOUT the apostle Paul’s letters .. try it !!
Great discussion!! I can relate to many things Denise said and went through. "I don't have to 'other' anyone anymore." How spot on! Thank you for telling your story with such candor, Denise. And Tim, as always, thank you for everything you're doing. Continue your good work and be encouraged! Wishing you the best.
This interview hit me in the face like a ton of bricks. Hard relate on SO MANY levels. The suicide ideation, but you don't want to go through with it; the wanting to do "boy" things, and getting rejected and thrown into the "female" box; praying and things getting exponentially worse, and so much more. Whew!
I was a conservative Christian and Republican, but the whole thing with Trump made me really take a step back. I was already beginning to deconstruct, but when he came along. These conservatives who my whole life told me to not be of the world are bowing down and worshipping him. It's because of the love I had for keeping to the Bible made me question if it's real because there's what they said about morality and not being of the world and what they did in worshipping Trump, and what they did told me that they did not actually believe in it. And its also the patriot side. I'm an Army vet 93 to 99 and it just sickened me to hear that immoral billionaire say those things about Vietnam POWs, "I prefer soldiers who don't get caught; I hate to be honest with you." I kept looking around the conservative Christian base and wondering who's going to speak ou besides me, but they just worship him. Again I was already asking questions but that just really began to burrow in my mind, "Am I in the right group because it seems that they only say it but don't really believe in it."
Lol so your faith in God and your relationship with him is dependent on human actions? God doesn’t give up on you, he wants a relationship not a religion. We all have to put in the work like every other relationship to make it work. There’s no life outside of him.
At one point in the interview, they compare Trump to king David. I’ve been thinking for a while that evangelicals give Trump a pass on all his scandalous ways because he is a kind of King David type figure to them…
Good talk! The sexuality part is especially choice. Christianity RUINED many good parts of my life, but sex was the most evil one it ruined. I was a virgin until 24, but it never sat well with me to have sex outside of marriage. As I didn't get into a relationship that led to marriage until I was 31 (married at 37, divorced at 45), I clearly did have sex with people outside of it. It is a horrible thing to put such guilt on any human being, but shaming other humans being for sex or for masturbation is EVIL and INSIDIOUS! At 48 it still haunts the fuck out of me and has hurt my dating (post-divorce). And yet, how many christians have been involved in sex-abuse scandals? Yeah, not a moral religion at all.......................
I'm so sorry for all your pain. I'm glad that you found help in such a difficult time. When it's so challenging and don't feel or hear God or can't express your doubt.
I totally get the thing about CS Lewis. In Christianity, CS Lewis is looked at like a second apostle Paul. It's ridiculous what kind of pedestal people put him on. I love his fiction writing, and as a person he seemed like a good guy. He was obviously a smart guy. But people forget that the one thing he wasn't, was a historian. He was a fiction writer, and a philosopher. He did not hold the bible to the same kind of rigorous standard of evidence that most historians do - opting instead to follow his feelings and to be steered by the arguments of his compatriots.
According to the general consensus of scholarship *(even critical Christian scholars),* YHWH was originally incorporated into the Canaanite pantheon as a son of the Canaanite high god El before inheriting the top spot in the pantheon and El's wife Athirat (Asherah) before religious reforms "divorced" them. If you want to see if El is fictional, just read his mythology in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts. His pantheon in Ugarit is called the *Elohim,* literally the plural of El. Interestingly, the Biblical god is also referred to numerous times as Elohim. "When El was young, he came across two beautiful Goddesses washing their clothes in the Sea. They were Athirat (Asherah) and the Goddess Rahmaya, and, after buttering them up by cooking a meal for them, he asked them to choose between being his daughters or wives. They choose the latter and became the mothers of the Gods Shachar "Dawn" and Shalim "Dusk"." *"First, a god named El predates the arrival of the Israelites into Syria-Palestine.* Biblical usage shows El was not just a generic noun, but often a proper name for Israel’s God (e.g., Gen 33:20: “El, the God of Israel”)." "I should add here that it is very clear from the grammar that the noun nachalah in v. 9 should be translated “inheritance.” *Yahweh receives Israel as his “inheritance” (nachalah), just as the other sons of El received their nations as their inheritance (nachal, v. 8).* With this verb, especially in the Hiphil, the object is always what is being given as an inheritance. Thus, Israel is given to Yahweh as his inheritance. ((Here I’m indebted to Dan McClellan.)) It would make no sense for Elyon to give himself an inheritance. Moreover, as I’ve argued elsewhere, it is not just the Gentile nations that are divided up according to the number of the sons of El. It is all of humankind, i.e., “the sons of Adam.” This clearly includes Israel. And the sons of Adam are not divided up according to the number of the sons of El, plus one (i.e., plus Elyon). They are divided up, according to the text, solely according to the number of the sons of El. *Thus, that Yahweh receives Israel as his inheritance makes Yahweh one of the sons of El mentioned in v. 8. Any other construal of the text would constitute its rewriting."* *"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.* (Written by Thom Stark who is a Christian) *"Michael Heiser: A Unique Species? - Religion at the Margins"* (A second response to Michael Heiser) *"Excerpt from “Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan” by John Day - Lehi's Library."* *"The Table of Nations: The Geography of the World in Genesis 10 - TheTorah.com"* (Excluding the short narrative on Nimrod (vv. 8-12), *which appears to be a later addition,* Genesis 10 contains *70* names of nations or cities, a number that was symbolic of totality. Similarly, the descendants of Jacob were *70* in number (Gen 46:37; Exod 1:5), *as were the sons of the supreme Canaanite god El, with whom YHWH became equated.)* *"Ugarit - New World Encyclopedia"* (Ugaritic religion centered on the chief god, Ilu or El, whose titles included "Father of mankind" and "Creator of the creation." The Court of El was referred to as the (plural) 'lhm or ***Elohim,*** a word ***later used by the biblical writers to describe the Hebrew deity*** and translated into English as "God," in the singular. El, which was ***also the name of the God of Abraham,*** was described as an aged deity with white hair, seated on a throne.) *"Mark Smith: Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh’s Ascendency - Lehi's Library"* (Mark Smith is a Catholic) *"God, Gods, and Sons (and Daughters) of God in the Hebrew Bible. Part III | theyellowdart"* *"02 | December | 2009 | Daniel O. McClellan - Psalm 82"* (Daniel McClellan is a Mormon) *"Elohim | Daniel O. McClellan"* (Refer to the article "Angels and Demons (and Michael Heiser)") *"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."* (Pay attention to whose wife Asherah (Athirat) is in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts and how she became the wife of YHWH/Yahweh) *"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."* *"Asherah, God's Wife in Ancient Israel. Part IV - theyellowdart"* *"The Gates of Ishtar - El, was the original god of the bible."* *"The Gates of Ishtar - Anath in the Elephantine Papyri"* (In addition to Asherah (Athirat) being the consort of Yahweh, it also appears some Israelites also viewed the Canaanite goddess Anat(h) as Yahweh's consort) *"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopedia"* (Refer to the section "Relationship to Biblical Religion") *"The Syncretization of Yahweh and El : reddit/AcademicBiblical"* (For a good summary of all of the above articles) Watch Professor Christine Hayes who lectures on the Hebrew Bible at Yale University. Watch lecture 2 from 40:40 to 41:50 minutes, lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards, lecture 8 from 12:00 to 17:30 minutes and lecture 12 from 27:40 minutes onwards. Watch *"Pagan Origins of Judaism"* by Sigalius Myricantur and read the description in the video to see the scholarship the video is based on. Watch *"How Monotheism Evolved"* by Sigalius Myricantur and watch up to at least 21:40. Watch *"Atheism - A History of God (The Polytheistic Origins of Christianity and Judaism)"* (By a former theist) Watch *"The Origins of Yahweh"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica.
I would love to part of a community where I live. I feel alone here in Florida with this. ALL of my family is immersed in church and service. They are their church work. I have not told them i no longer believe. I dont even know how to do that and have the words and thoughts to back that up with them. They will be devastated. My father is a minister in independent Baptist. I want to feel more empowered and give more love and light to the world.
To fundamentalists, obeying is more important that critical thinking. That’s why trump voters behave that way. Scott Burdick did a long RUclips interview with Dan Barker and included interviews with fundamentalists on stories like Job and Abraham sacrificing their kids and could they do it if god told them to do it. And their answers all leaned on obeying, not thinking.
The Christian God demands constant praise, worship and unconditional love, or suffer eternal damnation. But first you must use your imagination to create him inside your head.
Brilliant interview I can relate so much to a lot of this. Denise your story is vulnerable and my heart goes out to you. Seems like our mothers are so similar 😢
Thanks, April! Feel free to add me as a friend on FB if you'd like and to reach out there if you'd like to consider an interview sometime. facebook.com/timandjuliemills/
Nice! I’m a seasoned citizen who for decades, was immersed in what many in the African American community call the white mans religion; Christianity. I have never been more free, as I have been for about 10 years, after crawling out from under the burden to “win souls”. I enjoy leaving people where they are and just as with me, “when the student is ready; the teacher will come.” However, I am at a point where it’s not that I doubt the existence of “God”; rather, I reject what people SAY is “Gawd”. Exploring my Africanity and its birthing of all “religions” has me on the most exciting adventure toward, dare I say, truth! It’s funny, I now hesitate before offering to “pray” for someone, or to keep them in my “prayers”. ☺️ Words really do matter. Kudos to you as you continue on this freedom walk. Peace.
Denise’s asking at 9 years old to be baptized in the team pool in her team swimsuit is truly remarkable and endearing. It’s a very original and bold request. Truly remarkable if it was allowed. It raises many innovative possibilities that are fun to contemplate…❤️
Just subbed! I really enjoy your content as I'm really questioning Christianity. I also have a RUclips channel and totally understand the struggle with growth within RUclips especially since there's a gazillion youtubers! Thanks again!
Think what women could accomplish in this world if they were not denigrated and denied agency from birth. The dream killers are religions and ideologies that count women as less than. Any time a woman accomplishes greatness, know that she has had to fight harder for it than any man.
Tim, this is the second time I've heard you mentioned your mother's torment over the idea she gave birth to a child who will now burn in hell. Is she unable to extend that thought to her God and see how evil He must be to have created mankind KNOWING AHEAD OF TIME that most of them world burn in hell?
I think there is sometimes not much attempt to win you back and is an outright dismissive response, is that it says "shake the dust off your feet" and move on if they won't listen to you and also where it says it is impossible to bring someone "back to repentance" once they have had knowledge and "fallen away." Once you leave, you don't have value anymore because it's only your soul they prioritize and you have thrown your own soul away so there is nothing they can do for you or about you anymore. Then there is also a current of "you are selfish and immoral and stupid". Scriptures about spewing you out if you are lukewarm and scriptures saying that if you leave, well, then you were never one of them. That severs their interest in you: if you aren't one of us, you are against us.
@@Joy-bl2fg I have “known Jesus” my whole life. I finally after much research, found it all to be a story. My relationship is with humanity. With myself. I wish you luck as well.
Noticed God wasn't delivering. He just kept sending more jobs without payoff. "Now jump that way over the lava, now another jump. Now another." And it's a lie. God isn't weak. Anytime God wants you can walk past a suitcase filled with money or you can find a lottery ticket. You can even just work hard and use your pay from a job to secure yourself, but God seems to thrive on good ppl hurting and bad people winning with power. So God, you owe me for all the things I did do. Not like you owe me a favor. Like I dint get what you kept giving to everyone else and since you've proven to me I don't matter to you, I don't love you anymore. That's far more than enough. It's so easy and God made it so difficult. One day I sat down and decided not to get up ever again until things crashed. I almost died. I did end up in hospital on life support and I didn't ask to be saved. I was sent back to life again, and I went and sat right back were I was. I lost what I did have; and eventually, a small opportunity was given. I was prepared to die. God really wanted to punish me more and more as best he could, but I did get a decent home. I will tell you, it took 3 years of sitting everyday I one spot all day and saying no to everything else God offered. He really was trying to say "You're a Saint. You're my soldier. You dont need a home or a car or money. I will provide. It looks like god doesn't understand Financial Abuse. He's gonna monitor the money and the food and the time alone & take it away without my concentration to get me to do his bidding. I see the people you love God. They have realy nice houses and beautiful families and you've been abusing me my entire life. I was never a bad person. You were punishingme for forgiving ppl like you told me to. You ensured I couldn't get where I wanted andneeded to be. You wanted me to fight for you; but you abandoned me. I wish you were the God I knew existed I my heart but it turns out hats not you---that's my heart. You're mean. You dont have to pay up. I don't wsnt what I wanted before. You made sure it was all impossible. I don't even hate you. I just want you to leave me alone like all the people who are doing well. I don't want to be your soldier. You're mean. I canot believe you'd just let this go on and I didn't ask you to fix it. I asked you to show me and lead me and teach me and let me do it, and you wanted to humble me? I never said I was doing it without you or I'm all powerful. I asked you to show me. All the glory would be yours. And you spit on my love and my efforts. I don't believe you're not powerful. I believe you're mean. I have no clue why you did this to me for almost 40 years after that horrible childhood. But I dont like you and I don't wsnt to exist or be a part of you or be in hell and hate you. I' don't want to exist. Thanks God. Go f yourself, jerk
Ps.. I worked since I was 13 full time work, often 2 jobs, 16 hr days, 12 hr shift at least, 7 days a week. God kept making circumstances harder and harder, just for me, while he blessed everyone I knew b4. When you need a solid done next time God, you go find someone you gave a car to. I'm not walking 9 hrs for you ever agan. Fuck yoursef
In the Noah story, What did the animals who survived within the ark eat after they emerged from within the ark? The vegetation had been destroyed by flooding, so what did the herbivores eat? f Six months under water would have ensured that all of the vegetation had rotted! The sea water mixed with fresh water would also have poisoned the soil, until eventually some salt or brackish water marsh plants emerged What food did the carnivores survive on? Did they eat the herbivores who were saved? If so, how did the species continue?
Tim. The Unshakelled radio program is in Chicago not San Francisco. I have been there and did see some of those people that were unshackekeled by a God above the angry God mentioned in the bible.
"I'll just say it, I was a vrgin untill I was 20" she says it as if she's ashamed. Modern feminism has made women feel left out for having self respect.
@a.h.2667 it's because of pressure from their peers to be a man who women want to bed and whom other men respect. I think it's foolish on both halves. As a man you should certainly be respected by your fellow man but there's no shame in being a virgin in either court. I'd argue its a sign of self control and self respect.
I went to Catholic school, and one of my friends brought a King James bible into the school. The Principal sister Michaels slapped her across the face and snatched the bible from her hands!!! This was in the early 70.
Very interesting indeed. I'm still a believer but I resonate with a lot that was shared here. I'd be interested to know if either of you ever thought that God's spirit had spoken to your spirit, and what was spoken came to pass 👍🌻❤
Good question! I think that I placed that kind of idea on many “blessings” in my life. But I somehow didn’t assign the same blame for the awful things. It was a coping mechanism as a Christian to think that way. But thanks or blame weren’t equally assigned. If god made Satan to mess with us, well, that would be effed up too. It makes more sense that neither exist.
@@mainecoonmami yes I see what you mean. Thanks for replying. I still have too many questions that neither Christians nor atheists can answer satisfactorily for me. For many years I studied deeply the books of Daniel and Revelation and was fascinated by the prophecies and the historical fulfillments. Even if taken as a novel, so to speak, it's a powerful story filled with metaphors and historical fulfilment, especially in 1st century events and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. As difficult as I'm finding some things at the moment, especially because of chronic illness and love loss in my personal life, I find that I just can't discard everything I once believed and experienced, even though I'm in a very different place now
i want her to know that it is INCREDIBLY normal to be a virgin until you’re 20 even if you’re not Christian and have never even paid Christianity mind. i was a virgin until i was 20. most every single person i know was a virgin until their twenties. it’s sad that she thinks that’s abnormal because of the reasoning she had. the only thing that’s “abnormal” in that regard that could be tied to Christianity is being a virgin until marriage, but that has everything to do with people sleeping with their committed partners before marriage and nothing to do with age!
Thank you for distinguishing that. I hadn’t thought about it that way until you mentioned it. I wonder who I would be without religion. Perhaps I’d have made similar choices, just for myself and not some dogma.
It is pretending to love a God that you really can't because you are terrified of being sent to eternal torment. Salvation in Jesus is all about not being sent to eternal torment. It is nothing else because eternal torment was not part of the equation Christian Fundamentalism would be bullshit and not needed.
Most if not all people would ignore the bullshit in the Bible if it wasn't eternal torment looming over their heads. That is because of the so called original sin concept when man rebelled supposedly against God. Now they supposedly need some Jesus so they can be forgiven and restored back to God. The supposed sacrifice of Jesus Christ does not impress me and there have been more people who have endured much worse things than that.
Denise, I think that you are fooling yourself about your parents. You're admitting to yourself that they still have power over you. I'm not telling you to reject your parents, but I suggest that you both define your boundaries and hold true to them. About prayer, I tell people that when they tell me that they are praying for me, I feel denigrated, as if I don't have good sense and have made a number of bad choices.
I was being the most flowery I could be when describing my relationship with them. I agree with you that boundaries have been a late lesson and totally necessary.
@@Mrguy-ds9lr Treat people the way they want to be treated. Not the way your self-centered ego tells you to treat them. You were deliberately rude, what a great person that makes you.
Tim,why do you always try to get your interlocutors in these videos to nail down the exact moment they got saved? I'd swear, if I didn't know better, that you were some kind of secret Christian.I probably shouldn't have even brought this up,but it's kind of disturbing to me.I hope I haven't offended you because I like you and your channel.
Denise is right, I try to avoid stories from people who would say things like, "I was always a Christian," or "I just sort-of always believed it." There is an age when the pieces come together, and people decide as teenagers/young adults in a more volitional sense if they really believe. And that decision requires a basic level of theological understand of Yahweh's holiness, of the sin and judgment problem, of Christ's perfect life and his atoning death, of his power over death, and of the power of the Gospel to transform dead hearts to gladly love and serve Yahweh and Jesus. People who can't clearly articulate those kinds of dynamics aren't really the crowd I'm focused on interviewing or aiming for as my audience.
"THE CRUCIFIX FISH TESTIFIES" Look it up. See YHWH's memorial to the crucifixion and resurrection made on day five of creation. This not only proves they happened, but how.
@@mainecoonmami Yes. I can relate to your journey out of Roman Catholicism, but have you gone too far? “Christianity” has a lot of Roman Catholicism in it. Guilt and shame and conflicting emotions abound in Christianity because of these false teachings. Like eternal hell fire, the immortality of the soul, the trinity, the removal of God’s name from the scriptures, changing Yahshua’s name to Jesus. Most Christians don’t understand the bible because they are taught to read it in a vacuum not understanding the history behind it, including the history of Genesis 6, and the idioms of the original Hebrew language. They are brain washed that the bible is inerrant. It’s not. But that doesn’t mean you should give up on the faith and “deconstruct”.
Did you look at the crucifix fish? How did 27 details of the crucifixion get into the skull bone of this fish? Skull is the name of the place where the crucifixion happened. Fish is the symbol of the New Covenant faith. After these fish die they decompose and the skull bones wash ashore beginning around Passover time and continue until about mid-summer. Did Yahweh create this fish? Or did evolution randomly produce it after millions of years, coincidently depicting the crucifixion?
@brisadelcastillo2840 I have studied ancient writings all the way up to the culture of messiahs who were on the scene during Jesus’ life. Like John the Baptist. I study author intent and chronology of each book of the Bible, especially the scriptures and the historical Jesus. He was a person whose life his followers inflated because his prophesy of a new Kingdom failed. Then they prescribed some sort of spiritual Kingdom to it.
@@mainecoonmami The crucifix fish is perhaps the most terrifying fish on the earth. It has apparently silenced you and deconstructed your deconstruction. “Yet God chose the foolish things of the world so He might put to shame the wise; and God chose the weak things of the world so He might put to shame the strong; and God chose the lowly and despised things of the world, the things that are as nothing, so He might bring to nothing the things that are-so that no human might boast before God.” 1 Cor 1:27-29
@@brisadelcastillo2840 No one is silencing me. I just don’t see a reason to debate someone who uses scripture I already know and find zero value in besides mythological writings of ancient people trying to make sense of the world with their limited understanding of why storms happen (not Yahweh) or why fires happen (not Baal). I invite any god to come and prove themselves by silencing me. They won’t show up.
Proud big sister here....so proud of you for being brave and speaking up about the hard stuff. Sharing your truth helps others. Love you! ❤
Heeeey❤❤❤❤❤❤ this is crazy! This is how I felt. The way your sister described. So so glad you all are free now. ❤️💯🔥
Christianity is the greatest thought control system ever devised. A religion designed to keep its adherents constantly feeling guilty and trapped in a co-dependent relationship with an invisible sky-daddy. Not to mention the Church's obsession with repressing women's sexuality.
🎯🎯🎯
Listen to some ex sciencetologist, and ALL reLIEgions are the same.
Exactly!! Full mind control! No thank you.
What do you mean by repressing women's sexuality?
It’s like a scaffolding that’s installed in your mind at an early age that suppresses your naturally capacity for empathy and ethical processing. It attacks your imagination and it brings you no happiness and robs you of your ability to see a world beyond it. In my case my mind would literally attack me every time I exercised my erotic and romantic imagination. The pernicious thing about it is that it gets in your mind even if you have only a casual acquaintance with fear-based Christianity as a child. The idea of hell burrows into your brain like a worm without you noticing.
My relationship with God was like living with a narcissist 24/7. Constantly praising him, telling him that I was no good compared to him . Everything that was good that happened to me was because of God and everything bad that happened to me was me or the Devil. God didn't take credit for the bad things. If you look at it God's very insecure and needs to be constantly reminded that he's powerful.
I could not have described it any better! ❤
If you felt useless, GOD is not the only person that you communed with. Would the therapist , parents, friends be complicit in your hard journey?
Or, he’s just Narcissistic.
So thats why he brings negative sh**, to try n bring you closer really The BS just push alot of us AWAY from god. Knowing God is not real. God woulda done something about something by now or it aint a God. a Fraud
She is right about religious thinking making you a magnet for charlatans, and con artists. It really is like having a neon sign that says, "I am a target, come take advantage of me".
Tim, until I left my Mormon church seven years ago, I never knew how closely comparable born-again Christians and true-believing Mormons are. I am now 82 years old and would be glad to share my journey out of Mormonism and into agnostic-atheism with you. By the way, I am a retired college professor who once taught sections in my world lit classes on the Old and New testaments.
I'll be here for it. Certainly he will interview you😎
@@Scott-t2p I had elevated emotions and other things that kept me close to the church, but I have no reason now to believe the feelings and emotions came from outside my body.
Thank you for sharing your perspective, Barry. I am finding that I feel quite manipulated by the church service. I’m half your age but I hope to live to your age with my own agency.
@@Scott-t2phow do you know what a "spiritual experience" is? Buddhists, Hinduists, Daoists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists, even drug users and schizophrenic people claim to have had spiritual experiences. I've had them too, and I've had many, and I know they aren't trustworthy because I grew out of them and saw them for what they are: products of the suggestible, imperfect and biased human mind. If you come to judge others and believe you are the gatekeeper of truth and a mind reader, don't expect any welcoming.
I deconverted from Christianity watching the Mormon stories podcast and realizing how similar the religions were!
@ 53:50. Love ALWAYS comes with conditions in Christianity! It’s exhausting.
What relationship or agreement doesn’t have conditions??? Your husband doesn’t protect and provide does he love you? If he cheats on you constantly does he love and will you continue to love him and stay in the relationship??? NO!! Exhausting is people wanting to do and say whatever they want to God and have his unconditional love even while being disobedient.. not saying this is you particularly..but speaking in general. All relationships, covenants, contracts, agreements have conditions. It’s a two way relationship not one way. So what exactly is exhausting ?
@@electrowayne2918there’s a major power imbalance when it comes to having a relationship with God. That’s an issue I have.
Thanks so much for that, Denise! And thank you Harmonic Atheist for providing a place for people like her to share their stories.
I'm her little brother, by the way, so I can say with some authority that Denise is truly wonderful person. Her kindness and tenderness toward others has served as an aspirational model for me my entire life.
She deserves so much, including this opportunity to have her voice heard. I know she is eager to lift up heavy hearts, and parricularly those of fellow former Christians. So, again, thank you!
I commend your sister for her courage to share her life and experiences with the rest of us.
What a beautiful supportive comment, know she’ll be feeling that support with that ❤
This hidden religious abuse has been going on for centuries, the “core” of all religion is fear, fear exploited by vicious unscrupulous people. Survivors who managed to escape are the lucky ones. My maternal grandmother was a devout Catholic, went to Church, ran committees, taught at Sunday school, donated very generously (grandfather was wealthy and left her a huge portfolio). Grandma became I’ll, couldn’t get to Church, no one from the Church even inquired about her or even offered to pick her up to go to services. I took Grandma to the hospital to get some tests done, by this time she was confined to a wheelchair, at the hospital see saw one of the Priests she knew, they chatted and we went to have the tests done. By this time I was living with Grandma to take care of her, my sister was also living with us to help. I came home from work and my sister, who had come home earlier than me, told me Grandma had a visitor, a Priest. Stupidly, I was happy, thinking that at last her Church was reaching out to her. I should clarify, both my sister and I were, by this time, “unstated” atheists. The Priest finished his visit and left. We had the evening meal, we still, at that time, ate in the Dining Room, over Dinner one of us, I forget who, asked Grandma about the visit. I’d never heard my Grandmother curse, but she let loose a mouthful of bad language, then went on to say the Priest had given her a pre-prepared Will for her to sign, leaving everything to the Church when she died. The next day Grandma called her lawyers and made an immediate appointment for a new Will. That Priest visit cost the Church about $5,000,000.00, she wrote the church out of her Will. It seemed the visit breathed new life into Gran, she lived another 12 years, got to play with her Great Grandchildren and even do some travelling. She left her Estate to a Trust, for the welfare, health and education of her descendants. It’s become a bit of a thing in our family, to repay the Trust for money given to help, things like deposits on a house, education, operations or even a gap year in Europe. The Trust has a committee and no committee member can sit on an application concerning a “direct” relative. It gives a great sense of security and has allowed family members to “go for it” in a number of situations. Far better than a religion, to my view.
Oh wow, this resonates with me with trying to save everybody and feeling guilty when you can’t. Thank you for sharing your story.
Yep, I've heard him called the "Invisible Sky Bully" for good reasons.
I read a book by Karen Armstrong about the history of abuse of women in the Church, especially the Catholic Church, which she came from.
It still carries on like that despite the 18th century Enlightenment and better education in the past 200 years. But these ex fundamentalists attended private Christian schools or were home schooled, so they weren't educated properly. On becoming a fundie I was brainwashed into believing that I should reject most of what I was taught through my state school education.
Love it when you said I am a mature Christian now, but I am not a Christian. Yes, I am free too now to have unconditional love for others, so amazing! Love your voice and sweet demeanor. I can relate to your anxiety. You are so beautiful!
Thank you! It's a new purpose and a new community, and I am excited to get plugged in.
Some parents know exactly what they’re doing when they “handicap” their kids by rescuing them and/or not allowing their child to develop coping skills and independence. Not saying this is what happened with the guest but it could be. My mother did exactly this to make sure she was always needed and could maintain control of us into adulthood.
Thank you! That is the message I was trying to convey. It's not as if it was intentional (hopefully) but our helplessness gave a double heaping of service to my parents because not only would we rely on a god but would rely on them too.
imagine growing up with parents who demanded from u to apologize every day for being a piece of garbage...for being an evil sinner. for not being worthy of being in THEIR house. and if u didn't, u would be condemned to the basement for the rest of eternity. what would u think of those parents ? how would u feel? would u feel loved and accepted? u would probably feel like garbage for the rest of ur life. which is exactly the point. there is no love in fear.
"u woke up from ur coma because we were praying for u"..... i never understood the concept of praying for someone. so if they didn't pray for her, God wouldn't have helped her? he only helps people based on the number of people who are praying for them ? and why does an almighty being need a corrupt sinning human to tell him who to help? shouldn't he have already known she was in a coma and needed his help without humans needing to tell him ? just makes no sense
"God will punish sin"...this is incorrect. he punishes non believers. if u sin and repent, ur good to go. so he's not punishing sinners because heaven will be full of sinners. we're all sinners the day we're born. he punishes people who don't repent and don't believe. hell will be full of good decent people who questioned a 2000 year old story while heaven will have rapists, murderers etc who said "sorry"!
Right. Right right right.
Its amazing what you have said, "there is no love in fear." I totally agree!
Scripture actually also says this in 1 John, There is no fear in love and perfect love casts out all fear.
The TRUTH is this; Evil "Christian" pastors throughout the years have mistreated what God is. By reading ancient scriptures with a Modern Western American lens is how we result with the false Rep of God. I find my self getting extremely angry and blasphemous with a God im realizing is not even the right God
According to Protestants, you are correct. But according to Catholics, wicked Christians go to the hottest layer of Hell while good non believers go to the mildest layer of Hell where there is no suffering but still separated from God for eternity
Everytime I watch your videos, I think they are way too long. And then I catch myself watching every minute till the very end because the stories are so interesting and you ask so many good questions.
Extremely relatable... thank you for sharing with us, Denise
32:15
"...so why didn't (God) stop the accident in the first place?"
Uh...yeah.
Thank you Denise Powell for being brave & sharing your story. You are as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside. And thank you Tim Mills for having her as a guest. And thank you dear Tim for telling the story about your mother (about her saying she wanting to die because you deconverted & about her going to heaven & you her child going to hell ect...) I went through the same thing with my grandma & other family members. Thank you for making me feel that I am not alone. Thank you both ❤❤
I am so grateful that my story connects with you! It also makes me not feel so alone!
Thank you so much for these honest , brave questions and honest, brave answers. I really need to watch this over and over!!!
Great talk as usual.
Denise reminds me of me in a lot of ways. Really active imagination, grew up kinda hopelessly naive, some difficulty connecting with other people in specific ways. For me it eventually lead to an autism diagnosis. Funny enough, it wouldn't have happened had I not also been wondering at how Trump can be so obviously awful and still get support. I was looking into antisocial personality disorders with narcissistic tendencies when a video on adult autism diagnoses came across my plate. Couple of years later and here we are.
Funny what life throws at you.
That aside, I'm amazed at how positive Denise is. Having dealt with my own history of manipulation and of abuse, maintaining a positive attitude about meeting other people has always been a struggle for me. Yet I can't claim any experiences even close to what she described. Really impressed at her resilience.
Love listening to the new videos when they come out, they’re a must watch, it takes priority over anything else at the moment.
Analytical thinking is the key but losing the cushion of believing in that higher power was the hardest thing to deal with! I still believe there is definitely something beyond this life because I’ve experienced that…energy never dies.
Yeah and who do you think created that energy? “ let there be light “ … like I tell others like yourself.. start from the top. Read the Old Testament, study it and pray. THEN try the NT again. Much of what western culture thinks they know of God and theology is wrong. Especially Christian’s. The God of Israel is most certainly real and beyond just “ energy” . God is the only NON created thing. Everything else has a creator. Everything..I’m sure you’ll find him outside of what Americans call “ Christianity “ and there 5000 denominations. You’ll read the gospels differently and Christ will lead you to the father. The father of all creation. 🇮🇱
I’ve just discovered your channel over the last couple of days and it feels really therapeutic. It’s very “post-Dillahunty”. I was getting really depressed by angry atheists winning the same arguments against apologists over and over again just because they seem to be addicted to stress and conflict. I love Matt and the generation that came after and we owe them, but it’s time to move on and just celebrate life.
I like the fact that learning that we don't actually know who wrote the gospels was a key final step. That was also mine.
The common denominator I’ve found in these videos is that the individuals almost always have zero understanding of the Old Testament /Torah … it’s all New Testament gospel confusion and church and family hurt. . Christian’s are the only people who Start reading a book from the back first. Then they walk away throwing the baby out with the bath water per say . I blame western religion Baptist tradition for this. Seek God for yourself .. He is God , he is real he is ONE and no God next to him. Who sent his image, the messiah Christ to redeem his people. I tell people you can know God WITHOUT the apostle Paul’s letters .. try it !!
I’m super proud of you, young lady. May you continue to grow in your new self and just BE!
Great discussion!! I can relate to many things Denise said and went through. "I don't have to 'other' anyone anymore." How spot on! Thank you for telling your story with such candor, Denise. And Tim, as always, thank you for everything you're doing. Continue your good work and be encouraged! Wishing you the best.
Thanks, Cindi!
This interview hit me in the face like a ton of bricks. Hard relate on SO MANY levels. The suicide ideation, but you don't want to go through with it; the wanting to do "boy" things, and getting rejected and thrown into the "female" box; praying and things getting exponentially worse, and so much more. Whew!
Wow! A challenge shared is a challenge halved. I’m glad you connected to parts of this.
Religion causes so much damage
But a true relationship with God does not!
Thank you Mrs. Powell.
My children grew up free of God. I was a Christian when they were very young but I never put God onto them.
I was a conservative Christian and Republican, but the whole thing with Trump made me really take a step back. I was already beginning to deconstruct, but when he came along. These conservatives who my whole life told me to not be of the world are bowing down and worshipping him. It's because of the love I had for keeping to the Bible made me question if it's real because there's what they said about morality and not being of the world and what they did in worshipping Trump, and what they did told me that they did not actually believe in it. And its also the patriot side. I'm an Army vet 93 to 99 and it just sickened me to hear that immoral billionaire say those things about Vietnam POWs, "I prefer soldiers who don't get caught; I hate to be honest with you." I kept looking around the conservative Christian base and wondering who's going to speak ou besides me, but they just worship him. Again I was already asking questions but that just really began to burrow in my mind, "Am I in the right group because it seems that they only say it but don't really believe in it."
Chriatians' support for Trump was the last straw for me, too. It's what finally made me realize that Christianity is all B.S.
@@deannapowell7237 don’t throw the baby out with the bath water
Me too. It sealed the coffin for me in 2016 and I have been affirmed in leaving since.
Lol so your faith in God and your relationship with him is dependent on human actions? God doesn’t give up on you, he wants a relationship not a religion. We all have to put in the work like every other relationship to make it work. There’s no life outside of him.
At one point in the interview, they compare Trump to king David. I’ve been thinking for a while that evangelicals give Trump a pass on all his scandalous ways because he is a kind of King David type figure to them…
They give him a pass because they admire him. PERIOD.
Hmm. Don't recall David behaving like Trump or grabbing court women by the genitalia. Nor being a crazy conman,liar and bad businessman.
Good talk! The sexuality part is especially choice. Christianity RUINED many good parts of my life, but sex was the most evil one it ruined. I was a virgin until 24, but it never sat well with me to have sex outside of marriage. As I didn't get into a relationship that led to marriage until I was 31 (married at 37, divorced at 45), I clearly did have sex with people outside of it. It is a horrible thing to put such guilt on any human being, but shaming other humans being for sex or for masturbation is EVIL and INSIDIOUS! At 48 it still haunts the fuck out of me and has hurt my dating (post-divorce). And yet, how many christians have been involved in sex-abuse scandals? Yeah, not a moral religion at all.......................
Unshackled! Oh man, we loved that show! And adventures in odyssey and ranger bill and the rest of the Saturday morning line up on the radio.
I'm so sorry for all your pain. I'm glad that you found help in such a difficult time. When it's so challenging and don't feel or hear God or can't express your doubt.
“God” in of itself, is a divisive word…”Mirror” is the best description I can think of.
I totally get the thing about CS Lewis. In Christianity, CS Lewis is looked at like a second apostle Paul. It's ridiculous what kind of pedestal people put him on.
I love his fiction writing, and as a person he seemed like a good guy. He was obviously a smart guy. But people forget that the one thing he wasn't, was a historian. He was a fiction writer, and a philosopher. He did not hold the bible to the same kind of rigorous standard of evidence that most historians do - opting instead to follow his feelings and to be steered by the arguments of his compatriots.
Historicity is so important. Yes!
According to the general consensus of scholarship *(even critical Christian scholars),* YHWH was originally incorporated into the Canaanite pantheon as a son of the Canaanite high god El before inheriting the top spot in the pantheon and El's wife Athirat (Asherah) before religious reforms "divorced" them. If you want to see if El is fictional, just read his mythology in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts. His pantheon in Ugarit is called the *Elohim,* literally the plural of El. Interestingly, the Biblical god is also referred to numerous times as Elohim.
"When El was young, he came across two beautiful Goddesses washing their clothes in the Sea. They were Athirat (Asherah) and the Goddess Rahmaya, and, after buttering them up by cooking a meal for them, he asked them to choose between being his daughters or wives. They choose the latter and became the mothers of the Gods Shachar "Dawn" and Shalim "Dusk"."
*"First, a god named El predates the arrival of the Israelites into Syria-Palestine.* Biblical usage shows El was not just a generic noun, but often a proper name for Israel’s God (e.g., Gen 33:20: “El, the God of Israel”)."
"I should add here that it is very clear from the grammar that the noun nachalah in v. 9 should be translated “inheritance.” *Yahweh receives Israel as his “inheritance” (nachalah), just as the other sons of El received their nations as their inheritance (nachal, v. 8).* With this verb, especially in the Hiphil, the object is always what is being given as an inheritance. Thus, Israel is given to Yahweh as his inheritance. ((Here I’m indebted to Dan McClellan.)) It would make no sense for Elyon to give himself an inheritance. Moreover, as I’ve argued elsewhere, it is not just the Gentile nations that are divided up according to the number of the sons of El. It is all of humankind, i.e., “the sons of Adam.” This clearly includes Israel. And the sons of Adam are not divided up according to the number of the sons of El, plus one (i.e., plus Elyon). They are divided up, according to the text, solely according to the number of the sons of El. *Thus, that Yahweh receives Israel as his inheritance makes Yahweh one of the sons of El mentioned in v. 8. Any other construal of the text would constitute its rewriting."*
*"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
(Written by Thom Stark who is a Christian)
*"Michael Heiser: A Unique Species? - Religion at the Margins"*
(A second response to Michael Heiser)
*"Excerpt from “Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan” by John Day - Lehi's Library."*
*"The Table of Nations: The Geography of the World in Genesis 10 - TheTorah.com"*
(Excluding the short narrative on Nimrod (vv. 8-12), *which appears to be a later addition,* Genesis 10 contains *70* names of nations or cities, a number that was symbolic of totality. Similarly, the descendants of Jacob were *70* in number (Gen 46:37; Exod 1:5), *as were the sons of the supreme Canaanite god El, with whom YHWH became equated.)*
*"Ugarit - New World Encyclopedia"*
(Ugaritic religion centered on the chief god, Ilu or El, whose titles included "Father of mankind" and "Creator of the creation." The Court of El was referred to as the (plural) 'lhm or ***Elohim,*** a word ***later used by the biblical writers to describe the Hebrew deity*** and translated into English as "God," in the singular.
El, which was ***also the name of the God of Abraham,*** was described as an aged deity with white hair, seated on a throne.)
*"Mark Smith: Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh’s Ascendency - Lehi's Library"*
(Mark Smith is a Catholic)
*"God, Gods, and Sons (and Daughters) of God in the Hebrew Bible. Part III | theyellowdart"*
*"02 | December | 2009 | Daniel O. McClellan - Psalm 82"*
(Daniel McClellan is a Mormon)
*"Elohim | Daniel O. McClellan"*
(Refer to the article "Angels and Demons (and Michael Heiser)")
*"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."*
(Pay attention to whose wife Asherah (Athirat) is in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts and how she became the wife of YHWH/Yahweh)
*"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."*
*"Asherah, God's Wife in Ancient Israel. Part IV - theyellowdart"*
*"The Gates of Ishtar - El, was the original god of the bible."*
*"The Gates of Ishtar - Anath in the Elephantine Papyri"*
(In addition to Asherah (Athirat) being the consort of Yahweh, it also appears some Israelites also viewed the Canaanite goddess Anat(h) as Yahweh's consort)
*"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopedia"*
(Refer to the section "Relationship to Biblical Religion")
*"The Syncretization of Yahweh and El : reddit/AcademicBiblical"*
(For a good summary of all of the above articles)
Watch Professor Christine Hayes who lectures on the Hebrew Bible at Yale University. Watch lecture 2 from 40:40 to 41:50 minutes, lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards, lecture 8 from 12:00 to 17:30 minutes and lecture 12 from 27:40 minutes onwards.
Watch *"Pagan Origins of Judaism"* by Sigalius Myricantur and read the description in the video to see the scholarship the video is based on.
Watch *"How Monotheism Evolved"* by Sigalius Myricantur and watch up to at least 21:40.
Watch *"Atheism - A History of God (The Polytheistic Origins of Christianity and Judaism)"*
(By a former theist)
Watch *"The Origins of Yahweh"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica.
I would love to part of a community where I live. I feel alone here in Florida with this. ALL of my family is immersed in church and service. They are their church work. I have not told them i no longer believe. I dont even know how to do that and have the words and thoughts to back that up with them. They will be devastated. My father is a minister in independent Baptist. I want to feel more empowered and give more love and light to the world.
To fundamentalists, obeying is more important that critical thinking. That’s why trump voters behave that way. Scott Burdick did a long RUclips interview with Dan Barker and included interviews with fundamentalists on stories like Job and Abraham sacrificing their kids and could they do it if god told them to do it. And their answers all leaned on obeying, not thinking.
"My mom always wants to mom" ...I like that...but I must remember I'm going to be a foster mom soon.
The Christian God demands constant praise, worship and unconditional love,
or suffer eternal damnation.
But first you must use your imagination to create him inside your head.
What’s wrong with praising a God who is good and loves you unconditionally? Be humble and consider God in your life.
Brilliant interview
I can relate so much to a lot of this. Denise your story is vulnerable and my heart goes out to you.
Seems like our mothers are so similar 😢
Thanks, April! Feel free to add me as a friend on FB if you'd like and to reach out there if you'd like to consider an interview sometime.
facebook.com/timandjuliemills/
Glad to connect in some way to your story as well!
I’m in Seattle (east side, near Redmond). Totally up for coffee.
Nice! I’m a seasoned citizen who for decades, was immersed in what many in the African American community call the white mans religion; Christianity. I have never been more free, as I have been for about 10 years, after crawling out from under the burden to “win souls”.
I enjoy leaving people where they are and just as with me, “when the student is ready; the teacher will come.” However, I am at a point where it’s not that I doubt the existence of “God”; rather, I reject what people SAY is “Gawd”.
Exploring my Africanity and its birthing of all “religions” has me on the most exciting adventure toward, dare I say, truth!
It’s funny, I now hesitate before offering to “pray” for someone, or to keep them in my “prayers”. ☺️ Words really do matter.
Kudos to you as you continue on this freedom walk.
Peace.
Love this! Yes you deserve to find your own way, thank you!
Denise’s asking at 9 years old to be baptized in the team pool in her team swimsuit is truly remarkable and endearing. It’s a very original and bold request. Truly remarkable if it was allowed. It raises many innovative possibilities that are fun to contemplate…❤️
Just subbed! I really enjoy your content as I'm really questioning Christianity. I also have a RUclips channel and totally understand the struggle with growth within RUclips especially since there's a gazillion youtubers! Thanks again!
Keep on searching the thing with me now i have no fear of Hell plus being judged all stupidity lies myths to control humanity enough is enough.
Think what women could accomplish in this world if they were not denigrated and denied agency from birth. The dream killers are religions and ideologies that count women as less than. Any time a woman accomplishes greatness, know that she has had to fight harder for it than any man.
Men built the world. You live in a man's world. Men built the world you're enjoying.
If women were allowed the agency to build societies along with men, how much better off the world would be!
@@mainecoonmami Y'all can't. Men are stronger and thus fit to build. And since they built it, why not run it?
Tim, this is the second time I've heard you mentioned your mother's torment over the idea she gave birth to a child who will now burn in hell. Is she unable to extend that thought to her God and see how evil He must be to have created mankind KNOWING AHEAD OF TIME that most of them world burn in hell?
I think there is sometimes not much attempt to win you back and is an outright dismissive response, is that it says "shake the dust off your feet" and move on if they won't listen to you and also where it says it is impossible to bring someone "back to repentance" once they have had knowledge and "fallen away." Once you leave, you don't have value anymore because it's only your soul they prioritize and you have thrown your own soul away so there is nothing they can do for you or about you anymore. Then there is also a current of "you are selfish and immoral and stupid". Scriptures about spewing you out if you are lukewarm and scriptures saying that if you leave, well, then you were never one of them. That severs their interest in you: if you aren't one of us, you are against us.
I realized that too. They didn’t love me. They loved my Christianity and how it made their Christianity look.
If the idea of eternal torment wasn't in the Bible most If not all people would ignore the bullshit in it. It is an evil ultimatum.
@@mainecoonmamiJesus still loves you! It’s not about the people as much as it is about Christ. Get to know Jesus for who he is, he is a good God.
@@Joy-bl2fg I have “known Jesus” my whole life. I finally after much research, found it all to be a story. My relationship is with humanity. With myself. I wish you luck as well.
@@mainecoonmami if you don’t mind me asking, what did knowing Jesus entail for you?
Denise is so great
Noticed God wasn't delivering. He just kept sending more jobs without payoff. "Now jump that way over the lava, now another jump. Now another." And it's a lie. God isn't weak. Anytime God wants you can walk past a suitcase filled with money or you can find a lottery ticket. You can even just work hard and use your pay from a job to secure yourself, but God seems to thrive on good ppl hurting and bad people winning with power. So God, you owe me for all the things I did do. Not like you owe me a favor. Like I dint get what you kept giving to everyone else and since you've proven to me I don't matter to you, I don't love you anymore. That's far more than enough. It's so easy and God made it so difficult. One day I sat down and decided not to get up ever again until things crashed. I almost died. I did end up in hospital on life support and I didn't ask to be saved. I was sent back to life again, and I went and sat right back were I was. I lost what I did have; and eventually, a small opportunity was given. I was prepared to die. God really wanted to punish me more and more as best he could, but I did get a decent home. I will tell you, it took 3 years of sitting everyday I one spot all day and saying no to everything else God offered. He really was trying to say "You're a Saint. You're my soldier. You dont need a home or a car or money. I will provide. It looks like god doesn't understand Financial Abuse. He's gonna monitor the money and the food and the time alone & take it away without my concentration to get me to do his bidding. I see the people you love God. They have realy nice houses and beautiful families and you've been abusing me my entire life. I was never a bad person. You were punishingme for forgiving ppl like you told me to. You ensured I couldn't get where I wanted andneeded to be. You wanted me to fight for you; but you abandoned me. I wish you were the God I knew existed I my heart but it turns out hats not you---that's my heart. You're mean. You dont have to pay up. I don't wsnt what I wanted before. You made sure it was all impossible. I don't even hate you. I just want you to leave me alone like all the people who are doing well. I don't want to be your soldier. You're mean. I canot believe you'd just let this go on and I didn't ask you to fix it. I asked you to show me and lead me and teach me and let me do it, and you wanted to humble me? I never said I was doing it without you or I'm all powerful. I asked you to show me. All the glory would be yours. And you spit on my love and my efforts. I don't believe you're not powerful. I believe you're mean. I have no clue why you did this to me for almost 40 years after that horrible childhood. But I dont like you and I don't wsnt to exist or be a part of you or be in hell and hate you. I' don't want to exist. Thanks God. Go f yourself, jerk
Ps.. I worked since I was 13 full time work, often 2 jobs, 16 hr days, 12 hr shift at least, 7 days a week. God kept making circumstances harder and harder, just for me, while he blessed everyone I knew b4. When you need a solid done next time God, you go find someone you gave a car to. I'm not walking 9 hrs for you ever agan. Fuck yoursef
In the Noah story, What did the animals who survived within the ark eat after they emerged from within the ark? The vegetation had been destroyed by flooding, so what did the herbivores eat? f Six months under water would have ensured that all of the vegetation had rotted! The sea water mixed with fresh water would also have poisoned the soil, until eventually some salt or brackish water marsh plants emerged What food did the carnivores survive on? Did they eat the herbivores who were saved? If so, how did the species continue?
You must decide…trust in god? Or continue to think critically. 😄
“I’m carrying me.”❤👌
Getting free of religion is like cleaning fogged up glasses.
Great video - thanks
Great show. Kudos.
Tim. The Unshakelled radio program is in Chicago not San Francisco. I have been there and did see some of those people that were unshackekeled by a God above the angry God mentioned in the bible.
Gonz I remember the radio show unshackled I'm a believer what I did was unshackled from
a strict mind controlling puritan Baptist church.
We used to listen to it on the radio all the time. There is also a TV show now from Pacific Garden Mission in Chicago.
Welcome to the real world Denise !😊
"I'll just say it, I was a vrgin untill I was 20" she says it as if she's ashamed. Modern feminism has made women feel left out for having self respect.
Men feel ashamed for being adult virgins too, moreso than women. Is that also because of feminism?
@a.h.2667 it's because of pressure from their peers to be a man who women want to bed and whom other men respect. I think it's foolish on both halves. As a man you should certainly be respected by your fellow man but there's no shame in being a virgin in either court. I'd argue its a sign of self control and self respect.
Better 20 than 13 and pregnant.
Yea.. same on the suicide front..
I went to Catholic school, and one of my friends brought a King James bible into the school. The
Principal sister Michaels slapped her across the face and snatched the bible from her hands!!! This was in the early 70.
Very interesting indeed. I'm still a believer but I resonate with a lot that was shared here. I'd be interested to know if either of you ever thought that God's spirit had spoken to your spirit, and what was spoken came to pass 👍🌻❤
Good question! I think that I placed that kind of idea on many “blessings” in my life. But I somehow didn’t assign the same blame for the awful things. It was a coping mechanism as a Christian to think that way. But thanks or blame weren’t equally assigned. If god made Satan to mess with us, well, that would be effed up too. It makes more sense that neither exist.
@@mainecoonmami yes I see what you mean. Thanks for replying. I still have too many questions that neither Christians nor atheists can answer satisfactorily for me. For many years I studied deeply the books of Daniel and Revelation and was fascinated by the prophecies and the historical fulfillments. Even if taken as a novel, so to speak, it's a powerful story filled with metaphors and historical fulfilment, especially in 1st century events and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. As difficult as I'm finding some things at the moment, especially because of chronic illness and love loss in my personal life, I find that I just can't discard everything I once believed and experienced, even though I'm in a very different place now
i want her to know that it is INCREDIBLY normal to be a virgin until you’re 20 even if you’re not Christian and have never even paid Christianity mind. i was a virgin until i was 20. most every single person i know was a virgin until their twenties. it’s sad that she thinks that’s abnormal because of the reasoning she had. the only thing that’s “abnormal” in that regard that could be tied to Christianity is being a virgin until marriage, but that has everything to do with people sleeping with their committed partners before marriage and nothing to do with age!
Thank you for distinguishing that. I hadn’t thought about it that way until you mentioned it. I wonder who I would be without religion. Perhaps I’d have made similar choices, just for myself and not some dogma.
It is pretending to love a God that you really can't because you are terrified of being sent to eternal torment. Salvation in Jesus is all about not being sent to eternal torment. It is nothing else because eternal torment was not part of the equation Christian Fundamentalism would be bullshit and not needed.
Most if not all people would ignore the bullshit in the Bible if it wasn't eternal torment looming over their heads. That is because of the so called original sin concept when man rebelled supposedly against God. Now they supposedly need some Jesus so they can be forgiven and restored back to God. The supposed sacrifice of Jesus Christ does not impress me and there have been more people who have endured much worse things than that.
It does seem like, if a person is full of confidence they seem not to be haggled by Christians
It is literally impossible for me to stick with the god crap. Must be fake......So i quit cause the whole time there was no god.
Disagree. The church would cover up the ministers inappropriate sex "jokes" and blame the woman. Just my experience and overwhelming observation.
Love leaving religion and spiritual journeys
Denise, I think that you are fooling yourself about your parents. You're admitting to yourself that they still have power over you. I'm not telling you to reject your parents, but I suggest that you both define your boundaries and hold true to them. About prayer, I tell people that when they tell me that they are praying for me, I feel denigrated, as if I don't have good sense and have made a number of bad choices.
I was being the most flowery I could be when describing my relationship with them. I agree with you that boundaries have been a late lesson and totally necessary.
@@Mrguy-ds9lr Treat people the way they want to be treated. Not the way your self-centered ego tells you to treat them. You were deliberately rude, what a great person that makes you.
@@Mrguy-ds9lr Thanks for the denigration, my friend!
@@mainecoonmami And I, like most men I know was trying to fix your relationship. So sorry!!
@@Mrguy-ds9lr Respectfully don’t waste your time. If I thought it worked I’d me grateful. You can send me your sentiments and I say thank you.
100 out of 10!
💙💙💙💙💙
The Life of Pi is a good movie!
So good. Pivotal in my realization about why we have religions.
Close association with the Apostles wrote the books?
Sorry that I'm commenting so much. 😊
Fellow Azusa alumni here. 😄
Yay! You go!
💯❣️❣️❣️
I can identify an empathetic.
U people shud put the words that the people are talking on the screen dont under stand what shesays about a20 pounder
Tim,why do you always try to get your interlocutors in these videos to nail down the exact moment they got saved? I'd swear, if I didn't know better, that you were some kind of secret Christian.I probably shouldn't have even brought this up,but it's kind of disturbing to me.I hope I haven't offended you because I like you and your channel.
He is trying to speak to those Christians who would claim that we were never Christians.
Denise is right, I try to avoid stories from people who would say things like, "I was always a Christian," or "I just sort-of always believed it." There is an age when the pieces come together, and people decide as teenagers/young adults in a more volitional sense if they really believe. And that decision requires a basic level of theological understand of Yahweh's holiness, of the sin and judgment problem, of Christ's perfect life and his atoning death, of his power over death, and of the power of the Gospel to transform dead hearts to gladly love and serve Yahweh and Jesus. People who can't clearly articulate those kinds of dynamics aren't really the crowd I'm focused on interviewing or aiming for as my audience.
@@mainecoonmami That makes sense.I should have thought of that :( Thanks for your reply
@@HarmonicAtheist I see.Thanks for explaining.Sorry that I doubted your motives.What you say makes sense.Thanks for your reply.
Okay.Peace to you and your family.
"THE CRUCIFIX FISH TESTIFIES" Look it up. See YHWH's memorial to the crucifixion and resurrection made on day five of creation. This not only proves they happened, but how.
Did you watch my testimony?
@@mainecoonmami Yes. I can relate to your journey out of Roman Catholicism, but have you gone too far? “Christianity” has a lot of Roman Catholicism in it. Guilt and shame and conflicting emotions abound in Christianity because of these false teachings. Like eternal hell fire, the immortality of the soul, the trinity, the removal of God’s name from the scriptures, changing Yahshua’s name to Jesus. Most Christians don’t understand the bible because they are taught to read it in a vacuum not understanding the history behind it, including the history of Genesis 6, and the idioms of the original Hebrew language. They are brain washed that the bible is inerrant. It’s not. But that doesn’t mean you should give up on the faith and “deconstruct”.
Did you look at the crucifix fish? How did 27 details of the crucifixion get into the skull bone of this fish? Skull is the name of the place where the crucifixion happened. Fish is the symbol of the New Covenant faith. After these fish die they decompose and the skull bones wash ashore beginning around Passover time and continue until about mid-summer. Did Yahweh create this fish? Or did evolution randomly produce it after millions of years, coincidently depicting the crucifixion?
@brisadelcastillo2840 I have studied ancient writings all the way up to the culture of messiahs who were on the scene during Jesus’ life. Like John the Baptist. I study author intent and chronology of each book of the Bible, especially the scriptures and the historical Jesus. He was a person whose life his followers inflated because his prophesy of a new Kingdom failed. Then they prescribed some sort of spiritual Kingdom to it.
@@mainecoonmami The crucifix fish is perhaps the most terrifying fish on the earth. It has apparently silenced you and deconstructed your deconstruction.
“Yet God chose the foolish things of the world so He might put to shame the wise; and God chose the weak things of the world so He might put to shame the strong; and God chose the lowly and despised things of the world, the things that are as nothing, so He might bring to nothing the things that are-so that no human might boast before God.” 1 Cor 1:27-29
@@brisadelcastillo2840 No one is silencing me. I just don’t see a reason to debate someone who uses scripture I already know and find zero value in besides mythological writings of ancient people trying to make sense of the world with their limited understanding of why storms happen (not Yahweh) or why fires happen (not Baal). I invite any god to come and prove themselves by silencing me. They won’t show up.
Denise, I’m in Seattle. I tried to find you on Instagram. Would love to connect.
Shoot your shot!! 😈
Sorry