I'd be curious if those breakers could have been tested with an actual load current to see if they do still function as circuit breakers, or if 25% or them do not trip at all. That may help in the decision process whether to prophylactically replace the whole panel when StabLok is found.
The double-pole FPE breakers statistically have a trip failure rate of almost 50%. Single-pole breakers have a smaller failure rate. Some studies have found 80% failure rates!
They were really nice looking panels too. Too bad they were a horrible design where the mech would jam up sometimes and prevent the breaker from tripping, tripping too late, or if you dead short it, the breaker would trip so hard it would break itself.
Thank Eric, I've learnt a lot about FPE watching this video. Please, if you have the time, can you help me understand more as I am about to replace an FPE with 13(?) spaces each side with a new Square D panel. The lower spaces each side are occupied by 15 and 20 amp breakers that are connected to breakers in the top of the panel. Why did they do that? I am assuming I will need to replace them with stand alone 20 and 15 amp breakers in the new box. Is that correct? If you know of any reference material that would help me I would appreciate it if you could let me know. Thanks again for a great video. Best regards!
Hey I think I follow your question. New main panels have a main shut off that shuts power off the the bus bars. Older split bus panels such as this have energized upper bus bars at all times. It is just how the designs have improved over time. If you look at a diagram of Split bus panels versus a main breaker type that should help clear it up.
An issue yes. Fatal, not necessarily. There are millions of Split bus style panels in service all across the country (the house I filmed that in has a square D split bus from 1961). They have the same design as the day they were installed, it is the standards that have evolved. But I always discussed it with our clients and helped then understand what the issues are and let them decide how to spend their money. My goal here was to show a pfe stab lok and discuss the known issues with this unit. Next time I get a non pfe split bus parts I will make a video on that. Cheers.
@@ericbrady7172 Was a Licensed Master Electrician, Electrical Inspector and a Home Inspector for over 50 years all you can do as an HI is to call out the defects as you're doing and deal with the wrath from the realtors and the home owner at least your covering your ass.
Lol. I watched that video to undstand what you were talking about. Yeah I see the resemblance. I am fairly certain my dad grew up in neighborhood that music video was filmed in. Cheers. Also "enjoy your diarrhea!" 😂
Instead of having the home owners go through the hassle and cost of replacing the entire panels why haven’t they developed a new safer breaker that can be fitted to the existing panel and clean up all the panel contacts?
I do not know. FPE is still around but looks like they are out of the residential business. Probably traded hands many times since then. My guess is due to liability concerns no one wants to touch it. Problem that I see is that now they have a "rep" and no amount of assurance of rebuilding the units would make some people happy.
Not sure what you are asking? If you are referencing the bus bar, Kinda. It is held in by screws that are in a epoxy/tar like substance on the back of the unit. In an interesting discussion over on Facebook someone reported the screws and bus bars as a potential problem. That isn't what I was taught but certainally could absolutely be an issue. I would not attempt any kind of surgery on this panel. The fpe stab lok is understood to be problematic and should be promptly replaced if an issue is identified. It should be on any owners upgrade list at a bare minimum.
This is really alarming. Let me know. The inspectors, or realstate agent, missed a lot of steps. Or the owners didn't care to consider the information. One is in a closet without a cover. Basically, like gasoline to a match if you ask me. I ran here after seeing a realtor explain these need replacing. Now it's like what to do. If owners, be letting tenants sit with this hazard. What to do? This must be replaced we are in danger.
I misspoke, it is the 6-motion rule not the 8-motion rule. Not sure where that came from, it's what u get in 1 take 😁
I'd be curious if those breakers could have been tested with an actual load current to see if they do still function as circuit breakers, or if 25% or them do not trip at all. That may help in the decision process whether to prophylactically replace the whole panel when StabLok is found.
The double-pole FPE breakers statistically have a trip failure rate of almost 50%. Single-pole breakers have a smaller failure rate. Some studies have found 80% failure rates!
They were really nice looking panels too. Too bad they were a horrible design where the mech would jam up sometimes and prevent the breaker from tripping, tripping too late, or if you dead short it, the breaker would trip so hard it would break itself.
Fascinating video really. Thank for the info!
Thank you!
Should you replace it? Do you like your assets ?
Thank Eric, I've learnt a lot about FPE watching this video. Please, if you have the time, can you help me understand more as I am about to replace an FPE with 13(?) spaces each side with a new Square D panel.
The lower spaces each side are occupied by 15 and 20 amp breakers that are connected to breakers in the top of the panel. Why did they do that? I am assuming I will need to replace them with stand alone 20 and 15 amp breakers in the new box. Is that correct?
If you know of any reference material that would help me I would appreciate it if you could let me know.
Thanks again for a great video. Best regards!
Hey I think I follow your question. New main panels have a main shut off that shuts power off the the bus bars. Older split bus panels such as this have energized upper bus bars at all times. It is just how the designs have improved over time. If you look at a diagram of Split bus panels versus a main breaker type that should help clear it up.
@@ericbrady7172 Thanks Eric that's very helpful. I thought that was the case. I will proceed with more confidence now.
This is a split bus panel, no main breaker an issue all by itself.
An issue yes. Fatal, not necessarily. There are millions of Split bus style panels in service all across the country (the house I filmed that in has a square D split bus from 1961). They have the same design as the day they were installed, it is the standards that have evolved. But I always discussed it with our clients and helped then understand what the issues are and let them decide how to spend their money. My goal here was to show a pfe stab lok and discuss the known issues with this unit. Next time I get a non pfe split bus parts I will make a video on that. Cheers.
@@ericbrady7172 Was a Licensed Master Electrician, Electrical Inspector and a Home Inspector for over 50 years all you can do as an HI is to call out the defects as you're doing and deal with the wrath from the realtors and the home owner at least your covering your ass.
In Canada here, instead of split buss, they allowed main panels without main breakers.
Very informative! Is that why red fang cast you in Wires.....?😂
Lol. I watched that video to undstand what you were talking about. Yeah I see the resemblance. I am fairly certain my dad grew up in neighborhood that music video was filmed in. Cheers. Also "enjoy your diarrhea!" 😂
So how would I turn off power to the panel in order to change it
That has to be done by the utility. Generally, they will only do that for a licensed electrician who has followed their process for requesting that.
Instead of having the home owners go through the hassle and cost of replacing the entire panels why haven’t they developed a new safer breaker that can be fitted to the existing panel and clean up all the panel contacts?
I do not know. FPE is still around but looks like they are out of the residential business. Probably traded hands many times since then. My guess is due to liability concerns no one wants to touch it. Problem that I see is that now they have a "rep" and no amount of assurance of rebuilding the units would make some people happy.
Does the plate screw out individually?
Not sure what you are asking? If you are referencing the bus bar, Kinda. It is held in by screws that are in a epoxy/tar like substance on the back of the unit. In an interesting discussion over on Facebook someone reported the screws and bus bars as a potential problem. That isn't what I was taught but certainally could absolutely be an issue. I would not attempt any kind of surgery on this panel. The fpe stab lok is understood to be problematic and should be promptly replaced if an issue is identified. It should be on any owners upgrade list at a bare minimum.
neighbor had a new panel put in for $5000. ouch
No matter when your panel was made, someone wrote on it with a sharpie.
Almost every panel in the world, someone has doodled on it with sharpie
This is really alarming. Let me know. The inspectors, or realstate agent, missed a lot of steps. Or the owners didn't care to consider the information. One is in a closet without a cover. Basically, like gasoline to a match if you ask me. I ran here after seeing a realtor explain these need replacing. Now it's like what to do. If owners, be letting tenants sit with this hazard. What to do? This must be replaced we are in danger.