Jokes or not, 'depends on the situation' is literally always the answer in the fighting games. If we say that there is basically no point ever making guides, coaching, etc.
This makes a lot of sense. Seen it in high level tekken too. They deliberately drop their combo when the opponent is just short of rage if they know it's not going to kill.
Ruperto vs Book Collision 2019 is an example of this... last round of the second game. if I remember correctly. Also in tekken people use easier combos if it will kill.
@@MaccusFNS or sometimes, leads to a better oki situation and greater potential damage. Kazuyas df1,2 gives guarentees ff4 after, which flips them over on the ground. Now you have a hellsweep/wavedash into ff3 mixup. Or wavedash into wr2 if theyve been tech rolling
@@Kenlac92 only on a standing opponent.... If your doing combos that end with df1,2 and your getting a free ff4 that's means your opponent is not holding back to get up. But trust, ff4 is not free at all....
But he _did_ optimize his combo. Optimizing doesn't mean getting max damage, it means getting the highest possible damage while staying in an advantageous position and out of trouble.
@@tjl4688 Show me when and where it meant that. You don't only do max damage in matches, you do whatever fits the situation. That's optimizing. Wasting bar is not optimizing. Think of the real life meaning of optimizing. You don't optimize something by wasting all of its resources in the minimum possible time.
Destroyer Dotjaypeg You’re both wrong. The word optimization itself doesn’t necessarily specify either situation. It’s less “optimizing means THIS” and more “I’m optimizing the combo FOR this,” which is arbitrary. What is optimal for corner-carry is not necessarily optimal for damage is not necessarily optimal for oki and so on. While the *general assumption* is damage when the specification is absent, that is because damage is the easiest to conceptualize for the greatest amount of people when it comes to FGs, not because optimization can only be applied in that way. Let’s just move on now.
I think the Tekken equivalent, unless you're using the meters chars, would be if you have a high damage combo with bad wall carry or mid damage with good wall carry and they still have enough lifebar for 2 mixups anyway, might as well just go for mid damage with wall carry. In the recent updates, this gets almost meaningless since a lot of char's best damage is best wall carry or put you into the best situation anyway.
I wonder though brian, do you think that the pixel health does more mental damage. Even if its one interaction for that 40 health vs 2 health. I wonder if the mental damage makes it worth it, get them to panic more.
If anything it gets me to panic if I see I didn't kill them. And I Kno they put this feature in the game on purpose to happen randomly....like when a "fumble" happens in Madden at a very clutch moment. It makes for more entertaining rounds.... There is even a way to turn it on and off in Madden....NBA games too. Even God of War he can upgrade a "luck" ability where certain enhancements give him more "luck" .... So maybe you threw the axe close to his head, but with you having a enhancement with more "luck" now it's a head shot....
DirigibleQuixote i think he means increasing pressure (mentally). Interesting point imo. Nothing to do w being bad/unstable, even great players can fold under pressure.
Kind of something similar in MK11 due to Fatal Blows being tied to health. Some characters can play around 31% (threshold before you get the Fatal Blow) of health due to their high damage or unbreakable combos and rob their opponent of the chance of getting their super off.
One bar before scaling does way more damage than after a 5 hit combo. You're absolutely right, it's sometimes best to save a meter. I also don't spend meter if I'm pretty sure I lost the round. Best to save it for the next round.
Same thing in MK11, you want to do damage where they aren't in range for Fatal Blow or you save a krushing blow until it will kill them and you can avoid the fatal blow access. In FEXL a certain gougi (Hades) activate after a certain amount of knockdowns and you intentional don't knock them down to avoid them having a tool later on or you just make sure you do enough damage so it's rare that they are down.
People rehearse their max damage combo so much that doing it becomes reflex every time they get the chance, even when it means using more meter than they need to leave the opponent in kill range. Especially important in games where the enemy gets an advantage from losing health or being at critical health, like ultras, rage, or what have you, NOT doing max damage can take away something from the enemy, but it can also prevent that "redzone" mentality that some players have where they experience a boost in reaction times when they know defeat is near. If you avoid getting them low enough to set them off, you can kill them in one combo without giving them that moment.
As a Tekken player, I agree 100%. Sometimes I'll sacrifice damage to leave them face down ass up and stalk them down. They usually wake up kick and I'm waiting to punish it. That's just one example. Obviously dropping the juggle to not let them get rage is another. Sometimes it's done as a mind game. They get up guns blazing and you're ready for it. Great vid.
A good lesson in resource management! If you spend everything you have in stock and it doesn't kill...you just put yourself at risk! Considering some characters need meter to defend themselves, you expose yourself to a comeback if your opponent knows what he's doing!
I just picked up boxer, Im guilty of "dumping" resources.. EX as as pressure.. but will watch your content a bit more brian_f to see how you start the match before using the resources.
You know, I play FighterZ all the time. Never play Street Fighter. But I think this translates well for any fighting game especially the ones that don't have chip damage like FighterZ. It's better to simply reset your opponent than go for the optimal combo that will only land like 2% more damage and it's usually harder to land especially in online.
Spending meter and leaving your opponent at pixel health is more advantageous because you leave your opponent one jab from death, so now their situation becomes more threatening and leaves the attacker with more options. You can go for a frametrap/pressure with the hope that one hit (that may not even be confirmable/comboable) will lead to their death. But if you only have one bar of meter and you have a move like ex dash punch keeping your meter is clearly the better choice.
An optimal combo/punish to me, is one that maximizes damage potential, resource conservation, ease of landing said combo, and position. Some characters you want to throw them into the corner. Like, Bison's corner game is really strong, even if his punish left damage on the table, if he corners you, he now has an advantage of position. Like in SF4, if you corner Zangief, big deal, he fights out of the corner well. I'm also a fan of "do the combo you are most comfortable with" because, how many times do people fuck up their punish, because they didn't expect their opponent to hand them such a huge opportunity, and the dude just drops his long combo and now the opponent is ready. Like with Ryu, I like to do light Tatsu at the end of my combos, to force the opponent closer to the corner. It's not optimal in damage, it forces the positioning to change in my favor.
I have moved away from SF and mostly play tekken now. But this is better to know when I do play some Sf. I kinda figured it to be the case where my v-trigger combo with a bar spent on ex demon flip was barely giving me 5 more damage than if I hadn't spent the bar. I was thinking...was it worth it? you just answered that concern. thank you.
Why focus on the number of interactions, and not on the type of interaction? 1 hp remaining when you burn both bars, or 10 hp remaining when you spend none. Yes, one interaction can kill in both situations. But your low poke is 7 DMG, you know it, he knows it, and if you optimize the number of interactions, he won't worry about that low. Making the guess easier.
Hey Brian, do you think it would be better if the minimum damage was 20%? I personally do not agree with 7-10% damage scaling because matches get drawn out and good combo's can get short-changed on damage. In the KOF series (KOF XIII), minimum damage is 20%. I do not see the point of doing 5 points of damage per hit on a great combo ~ I think Capcom should go over the current system.
Jump attack -> grounded attack -> special move. It was good enough in 1992, it's good enough today. Why yes, my win record in Killer Instinct is 0-2500, thanks for asking. I think it's because I keep falling for frame traps.
I disagree with this , i also distinguish throw damage life and jab damage life. If i put oppo with a pixel of life , it needs only 1 jab to die , lets say he guess the mixup right , we back to neutral , having oppo with 1 pixel or throw damage life make him and you play totally differently , u dont even need to get close to kill.
That isn't damage reduction per hit (or something called like that)?? Almost every fg has that, but from what i see in the video in SFV is a lot easier to see it, the reason: short combos=big diference in damage, equals, more damage per hit (perfect for footsies) and that protection is to prevent 1 combo kills, i guess... More hits in the combo= less damage per hit over time
Soul calibur players abuse the hell outta the dmg scaling, but heavy characters have bigger scaling, like on soul calibur 5 some oki options on nightmare can deal up to 20% dmg, so the game plan with him is landing a knockdown and then oking the enemy to death, if you miss the oki, you Just go to for a knockdown, and gg, if you go for combos or brave edges you Just want to style on your opponent and show some combos off.
footsies the game 5 is not about damage but about placement why i personally cant play it giving i dont have that kind of patcience and i dont have seth or gil yet and dudley isnt in the game Nice video
To everyone that might be interest in fighting games this might be the most pointless a fighting game guide could get. When your whole video is know when you can kill but you stretch it to 10 mins is kinda bad.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This was a very long winded way of saying damage scaling and depends on the situation. Plz stay out of feed. Thx.
Sure thing zyxwvutsrqponmkjihgfedcba
Jokes or not, 'depends on the situation' is literally always the answer in the fighting games. If we say that there is basically no point ever making guides, coaching, etc.
with that long winded nickname it sounds like a joke
@@anonfalco7880
Haha, option select go brrrrrrrrr
He says it within the first min of the video you’re an idiot
This makes a lot of sense. Seen it in high level tekken too. They deliberately drop their combo when the opponent is just short of rage if they know it's not going to kill.
Ruperto vs Book Collision 2019 is an example of this... last round of the second game. if I remember correctly. Also in tekken people use easier combos if it will kill.
@@MaccusFNS I do too lol
@@MaccusFNS or sometimes, leads to a better oki situation and greater potential damage. Kazuyas df1,2 gives guarentees ff4 after, which flips them over on the ground. Now you have a hellsweep/wavedash into ff3 mixup. Or wavedash into wr2 if theyve been tech rolling
@@Kenlac92 only on a standing opponent....
If your doing combos that end with df1,2 and your getting a free ff4 that's means your opponent is not holding back to get up. But trust, ff4 is not free at all....
It's called a reset it exist in all fighting games
Why I Season My Cutting Board, NOT My Steak
.
The GOAT
It is really weird knowing that FGCTube watches Adam Ragusea and I'm not alone in my extremely weird and specific confluence of interests. Lol
Werid example you dont eat you're cutting board
@@soulstrendingmusic7531 You are the cutting board?
I honestly thought I was going insane for a second
Gonna save everyone a watch and spill the beans right here in the comments section: You do the combo that looks coolest. Every time.
Because of who Brian F is... I believed this comment lol
It's very important to learn how to manage your stonks in SFV
Stonks Fighter V
This dude basically said “ don’t spend the bar so that you still have the bar” ok thanks bro
5Head
But he _did_ optimize his combo. Optimizing doesn't mean getting max damage, it means getting the highest possible damage while staying in an advantageous position and out of trouble.
Nope. Optimizing means max damage. Always has.
@@tjl4688 Show me when and where it meant that. You don't only do max damage in matches, you do whatever fits the situation. That's optimizing. Wasting bar is not optimizing.
Think of the real life meaning of optimizing. You don't optimize something by wasting all of its resources in the minimum possible time.
@@ultralowspekken youre wrong get over it.
@@Zenbon111 lmao nice try, mr. Speech 100. I won't change my point unless valid reasoning (or proof, for the matter) is given
Destroyer Dotjaypeg
You’re both wrong. The word optimization itself doesn’t necessarily specify either situation. It’s less “optimizing means THIS” and more “I’m optimizing the combo FOR this,” which is arbitrary. What is optimal for corner-carry is not necessarily optimal for damage is not necessarily optimal for oki and so on. While the *general assumption* is damage when the specification is absent, that is because damage is the easiest to conceptualize for the greatest amount of people when it comes to FGs, not because optimization can only be applied in that way.
Let’s just move on now.
Not sure why I got recommended this, I'm an avid Tekken fan but glad I could hear your insight on this. Also I SEE YOU WITH THAT TEKKEN MUSIC 👀👀
I think the Tekken equivalent, unless you're using the meters chars, would be if you have a high damage combo with bad wall carry or mid damage with good wall carry and they still have enough lifebar for 2 mixups anyway, might as well just go for mid damage with wall carry. In the recent updates, this gets almost meaningless since a lot of char's best damage is best wall carry or put you into the best situation anyway.
The F stands for fundamentals
droptimized
I like that you put timestamps for the content and the matches. Awesome video, keep it up!
That OST is bold of you, sire. Tekken gamer here. Good video.
Zero said it himself in Tatsunoko vs Capcom:
You've got the moves...but you move too much!
I wonder though brian, do you think that the pixel health does more mental damage. Even if its one interaction for that 40 health vs 2 health. I wonder if the mental damage makes it worth it, get them to panic more.
You shouldn't rely on your opponent being bad or unstable.
If anything it gets me to panic if I see I didn't kill them. And I Kno they put this feature in the game on purpose to happen randomly....like when a "fumble" happens in Madden at a very clutch moment. It makes for more entertaining rounds....
There is even a way to turn it on and off in Madden....NBA games too.
Even God of War he can upgrade a "luck" ability where certain enhancements give him more "luck" .... So maybe you threw the axe close to his head, but with you having a enhancement with more "luck" now it's a head shot....
DirigibleQuixote i think he means increasing pressure (mentally). Interesting point imo. Nothing to do w being bad/unstable, even great players can fold under pressure.
Kind of something similar in MK11 due to Fatal Blows being tied to health. Some characters can play around 31% (threshold before you get the Fatal Blow) of health due to their high damage or unbreakable combos and rob their opponent of the chance of getting their super off.
this I find that my cross ups tend to have a better chance of not being blocked given my opponent having a pixel
One bar before scaling does way more damage than after a 5 hit combo. You're absolutely right, it's sometimes best to save a meter. I also don't spend meter if I'm pretty sure I lost the round. Best to save it for the next round.
I dont optimize my combos cause I'm dumb as hell
I've been saying this crap for years. I'm so glad this is being addressed.
Same thing in MK11, you want to do damage where they aren't in range for Fatal Blow or you save a krushing blow until it will kill them and you can avoid the fatal blow access. In FEXL a certain gougi (Hades) activate after a certain amount of knockdowns and you intentional don't knock them down to avoid them having a tool later on or you just make sure you do enough damage so it's rare that they are down.
People rehearse their max damage combo so much that doing it becomes reflex every time they get the chance, even when it means using more meter than they need to leave the opponent in kill range. Especially important in games where the enemy gets an advantage from losing health or being at critical health, like ultras, rage, or what have you, NOT doing max damage can take away something from the enemy, but it can also prevent that "redzone" mentality that some players have where they experience a boost in reaction times when they know defeat is near. If you avoid getting them low enough to set them off, you can kill them in one combo without giving them that moment.
that boi smug been optimizing that flat top. aerodynamics the new meta
I know I'm dumb and I know this is simple, but this is the most profound bit of fighting game knowledge I've ever seen.
I see you with that "random stream matches to bump up that video runtime" tech. I don't mind, though. Get that bag.
Reminds me why Fantasy Strike has such a condensed combo-lifebar structure. Every section is literally how many hits you need to win.
As a Tekken player, I agree 100%. Sometimes I'll sacrifice damage to leave them face down ass up and stalk them down. They usually wake up kick and I'm waiting to punish it. That's just one example. Obviously dropping the juggle to not let them get rage is another. Sometimes it's done as a mind game. They get up guns blazing and you're ready for it. Great vid.
That was a great insight. Lesson learned.
I never looked at it this way before. Logically this makes a lot of sense.
A good lesson in resource management! If you spend everything you have in stock and it doesn't kill...you just put yourself at risk! Considering some characters need meter to defend themselves, you expose yourself to a comeback if your opponent knows what he's doing!
I just picked up boxer, Im guilty of "dumping" resources.. EX as as pressure.. but will watch your content a bit more brian_f to see how you start the match before using the resources.
You know, I play FighterZ all the time. Never play Street Fighter. But I think this translates well for any fighting game especially the ones that don't have chip damage like FighterZ. It's better to simply reset your opponent than go for the optimal combo that will only land like 2% more damage and it's usually harder to land especially in online.
Chip damage does exist in FighterZ, but it can't kill.
Thanks I just realized I do spend my bar an resources unnecessarily and end up in the same situations but with less options.
Awsome vid. Never thought of looking at the last part of the match that way. I will definitely implement this into my gameplay. Keep 'em coming man!!
I like how this vid is just how to better optimize your combos and not actually not optimizing your combos
You've explained something that I couldn't explain ty.
Spending meter and leaving your opponent at pixel health is more advantageous because you leave your opponent one jab from death, so now their situation becomes more threatening and leaves the attacker with more options.
You can go for a frametrap/pressure with the hope that one hit (that may not even be confirmable/comboable) will lead to their death.
But if you only have one bar of meter and you have a move like ex dash punch keeping your meter is clearly the better choice.
An optimal combo/punish to me, is one that maximizes damage potential, resource conservation, ease of landing said combo, and position. Some characters you want to throw them into the corner. Like, Bison's corner game is really strong, even if his punish left damage on the table, if he corners you, he now has an advantage of position. Like in SF4, if you corner Zangief, big deal, he fights out of the corner well. I'm also a fan of "do the combo you are most comfortable with" because, how many times do people fuck up their punish, because they didn't expect their opponent to hand them such a huge opportunity, and the dude just drops his long combo and now the opponent is ready.
Like with Ryu, I like to do light Tatsu at the end of my combos, to force the opponent closer to the corner. It's not optimal in damage, it forces the positioning to change in my favor.
3:02 i got the idea 4:29 a more tragic example
5:32 "it's not always optimal to be more optimal"
9:13 footsies!
i love these short talks!
This was actually really helpful. I never thought of or heard about this thought process. Thanks a lot.
That tekken 6 mystical forest. Good vibes
should be "WHEN I don't optimize my combos"
I feel like not being able to get chip wins (without super) helps increase the value of not always maximizing combos.
My man just put a timestamp of just "Content"
Music in the videos is always fire
It’s so obvious once you say it, but I’d have never thought of it. Thanks!
I have moved away from SF and mostly play tekken now. But this is better to know when I do play some Sf. I kinda figured it to be the case where my v-trigger combo with a bar spent on ex demon flip was barely giving me 5 more damage than if I hadn't spent the bar. I was thinking...was it worth it? you just answered that concern. thank you.
Why focus on the number of interactions, and not on the type of interaction? 1 hp remaining when you burn both bars, or 10 hp remaining when you spend none. Yes, one interaction can kill in both situations. But your low poke is 7 DMG, you know it, he knows it, and if you optimize the number of interactions, he won't worry about that low. Making the guess easier.
Hey Brian, do you think it would be better if the minimum damage was 20%? I personally do not agree with 7-10% damage scaling because matches get drawn out and good combo's can get short-changed on damage. In the KOF series (KOF XIII), minimum damage is 20%. I do not see the point of doing 5 points of damage per hit on a great combo ~ I think Capcom should go over the current system.
Thanks for explaining this Brian, never really thought about that
Just chimed in for mystical forest thank brian
What songs were you playing ? Please shot me the links
Why I marinate my frames not my meat.
this is some big brain info
Basically, If your bar only gives you 42 damage and nothing else don't spend it?
Jump attack -> grounded attack -> special move. It was good enough in 1992, it's good enough today. Why yes, my win record in Killer Instinct is 0-2500, thanks for asking. I think it's because I keep falling for frame traps.
So it’s better to have the ex move option as last hit rather then not having it. Makes sense.
Thank u Brian F
I disagree with this , i also distinguish throw damage life and jab damage life.
If i put oppo with a pixel of life , it needs only 1 jab to die , lets say he guess the mixup right , we back to neutral , having oppo with 1 pixel or throw damage life make him and you play totally differently , u dont even need to get close to kill.
Soundtrack?
Why I optimize my combos, NOT my steak
but how am i gonna be *S T Y L I S H*
That isn't damage reduction per hit (or something called like that)?? Almost every fg has that, but from what i see in the video in SFV is a lot easier to see it, the reason: short combos=big diference in damage, equals, more damage per hit (perfect for footsies) and that protection is to prevent 1 combo kills, i guess...
More hits in the combo= less damage per hit over time
No. It's because of V Trigger and Crush Counter damage scaling. He says it in the video.
damn I really wanted to find out why idom would not play elena if she came back and was top tier but the video ended (talking about the stream chat)
Anybody else
has the audio very desynched?
Soul calibur players abuse the hell outta the dmg scaling, but heavy characters have bigger scaling, like on soul calibur 5 some oki options on nightmare can deal up to 20% dmg, so the game plan with him is landing a knockdown and then oking the enemy to death, if you miss the oki, you Just go to for a knockdown, and gg, if you go for combos or brave edges you Just want to style on your opponent and show some combos off.
RESOURCE MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!11!!1
But if not being optimal is the best play, then wouldn’t that make it optimal?
Why do people whiff moves on stun?
Building meter
Proceeds to play Tekken 5 arcade music
This is kinda how I think in a way.
I think Smug should watch this
Says don't always optimize. Proceeds to optimize!!!
But I understand. I do this with Laura's mp elbow and fake the follow up into command grab.
Tekken Music
WOW! i learned so much from this! So, in some ways, Not optimizing IS optimizing. That's so meta :)
You *are* optimizing.
You aren't *maximizing*
Shout out to P4U2 players!
Ohhhhhh. So I can save my meter for something better. Like using an EX shoryuken on wakeup.
TLDR
Don't waste your bar if your opponent don't die from it but dies from 1 50/50
footsies the game 5 is not about damage but about placement why i personally cant play it giving i dont have that kind of patcience and i dont have seth or gil yet and dudley isnt in the game
Nice video
Ah yes, quite simple actually 5head
Fucking Brian F, hottest hair in the whole FGC, period.
Great argument
Aaaaand then there is the magic Pixel and you wished you had used your ex.
Dammit, I wanna know why idom won't play Elena even if she's top tier!!!
iam not even playing fighting games help
isnt this still optomising
Yes
This is not tekken :(
Balrog really is the most braindead character in the world
To everyone that might be interest in fighting games this might be the most pointless a fighting game guide could get. When your whole video is know when you can kill but you stretch it to 10 mins is kinda bad.
I just do combos that look cooler
Because it's SFV. What combos? Wtf are you talking about?
Sf5 so bad he had Tekken music playing
Damn you guys are REACHING lmao
Sf5 has one of the best soundtracks ever so that negates your point in itself lol
@@Edz519 SF5 has good music your right. But the game is 2 steps behind SF4. Brought sf5 back the same day I bought it. And the netcode is trash also.
Title is misleading af. 10 minute video to remind people not to spend resources when they dont have to
Does this guy really think he's good when he uses one of the most no-skill OP meta character in the game? lmao
You’re trolling, right?
Kill is kinda harsh word my dude 🙄 more like knock out
You dare put tekken music to this trash game?
Cry more