The real side effect of having bots in games when the players don't even know it is all the sneaky things companies can do with it. Remember all those patents that went around about putting players who make a purchase into easier games to give them a sense of acomplisment for buying that new gun or up against super hard players fully kitted out with the best MTX weapons to kill people who haven't? Well now they can cut out the middle man and just have bots do all that work. Easy bots not only in the game but actively seek out players who bought MTX to make the new gun seem powerful and harder bots equipped with teh rarest of items stomping others.
Well in the case of fortnite you cant really say for sure that any of this is really happening. Also you cant say that fortnite is pay to win when the game is predicated on OSP and you're not guaranteed anything at drop.
@@IIDEADBIRDII A guy called Vikkstar released a video where he went into a replay function and could distinguish bots from humans and he found that in most of his games half the players were bots
@@IIDEADBIRDII Pay to win isn't necessarily the only relevant issue. Even if someone never buys microtransactions, they could be playing against bots with all of the sexiest skins that constantly beat them in gunfights just to show off the shiny skins. They have absolutely no incentive to make the game enjoyable for people that don't pay a dime for the game and if there's even a .01% chance that all the "free advertising" the bots give off would entice them to make a purchase, that's better (from the business perspective) than catering to them. Meanwhile, someone who does buy microtransactions, even if only rarely, may get placed against easier bots that they more frequently win against, which gives them a satisfying feeling that they want to continue to have. Make them feel good when they play and they will want to continue to play. And if they continue to play, they continue to pay (even if only rarely). Bots could even be programmed to gives players compliments on the skins acquired through microtransactions, making them feel good about buying them. What adds insult to injury is knowing that all of these scheme-y tactics have probably already been discussed at length in many board meetings for years.
@@IIDEADBIRDII Though the social pressures to "Look Cool" are perhaps is higher in fortnight than most. I mean a standard insult is "Default" for a reason. For being "just cosmetic" Fortnight seems to put far more weight into them than most. Having bots run around in the rarest gear to show it off is probably going to happen.
The best part is that they more or less do it for the same reasons. AI is very single minded and has a difficult time changing goals and priorities, so when its focusing on killing it might forget that you need to be revived. Meanwhile a real player is too immersed on shooting zombies to even notice you are down.
@@KokiriKidLink It only really falters in very chaotic situations since it does not know what to prioritize. Otherwise it works a bit TOO well(like they always rush to heal you if you are damaged, even if it wastes a medkit).
Seriously, L4D bots are often times way more helpful than strangers online. L4D might actually have some of the most helpful bots in any game I have played. Doesn't mean I appreciate them stealing every bottle of pills they can get their hands on tho.
Thing is they want these bots to feel real, but also eventually to discourage players that aren't paying into the system. What's to stop a bot from cheating to get an advantage? It's aiming ability is that of an aimbot, it's scouting ability is that of a wallhack, what's to stop the AI from following the constraints that make them fair to fight? And when a bot does use it's aimbot and wallhack to beat you, they will probably program toxicity into the bot to make it seem like a real player. Teabagging bots already exist, what's to stop them from storing some toxic phrases and having it voice chat at you? This system is designed to make the game engaging, but it can also be scaled to make people who don't put money into the game have less fun, and be able to reinforce cosmetic purchases by making the bots easier against you.
To add another layer to this “engagement” thing, the reason it’s so dangerous in this era of “games as a service” is that every game dev and their mother employs constant psychological bombardment meant to get you to impulse-spend *every single time you log into a game.* There are bright colors and explosive sound effects meant to extract instinctual excitement at whatever new microtransaction they have, public rankings used to exert social pressure by glamorizing needless expenditure in-game, non-stop gachas that are designed to make you think “just one more time” while they put something like *RATE UP* in big gold letters even though the chance of getting the item you want is still in the single digit percents, if that, and this is compounded by the fact that many mobile games give you a free low-chance gacha pull to get that “just one more” ball rolling. And anyone who’s played a freemium game knows that every time they log in, they’re hit with a slew of pop-ups telling them all of the newest things to spend money on from overpriced skins to step-up draws to VIP login rewards(pay for shit you only get AFTER giving the game another week or month of gameplay), to the current event that has time-limited crap that is only reasonably accessible without dozens of hours of grind through spending money. This engagement is all a damned ploy to get you in the game even when you wouldn’t normally be there so that you can get hit with the “Give-Us-Your-Money” Barrage. Adults who don’t have gambling problems won’t fall victim to it but those who do and kids? Well, the results speak for themselves. At the end of the day, the “Taxation is theft” Conservatives would make a better use of their time holding their fellow consumer-manipulators accountable instead of preaching about how their precious free market is some infallible invariable boon.
A lot of conservatives have either been shamed into silence, outright deplatformed, or simply stopped giving a fuck. I, for one, will still gladly be Wrong on the Internet for the keks, but I'm also learning to pick my fights better so that if I do go to Facebook jail, it'll be over something spicier than, say, "Honk Hortler" :)
Wow. I started watching this video all like, "Man, Jim's digging deep in the barrel this week..." to completely seeing what your point was by the end. Bravo, sir. Thank you for sharing. I know it probably sometimes feels like you're shouting into the void, but I just want you to know that I tell people, a LOT of people, about the things you say in your videos. So, thanks again and please don't ever stop doing content like this. There's more to video games than just graphics and framerates. There are corporations out there trying to bilk us for every cent we have and more and it's important for people to know that when they buy a particular product. People can go ahead and enjoy any particular title, but just need to be aware of the mechanics behind it and what the company is trying to actually do with the game. Make sure you pause and think about that when you first reach for that Buy/Purchase button in-game.
As I was listening to this episode, I was playing with my 5-month old kittens. They really like their mouse-on-a-string, its shape is pleasant and it makes noises, but each time they manage to catch it i make it run away. But the key to a prolonged play session is to let them from time to time actually catch the mouse and give a treat. I guess now I'm qualified to advise the AAA industry on player engagement?
Only if you managed to get those kittens to cough up $59.99 up front, upsold to $84.99 for the Deluxe Edition Mouse-on-a-String, and then another $99.99 for a year's sub to Mouse-on-a-String First.
Hey Jim, Long time fan, first time commenter. I think the world we're stepping into is becoming one where we need to think seriously about the philosophical conundrum of 'The Experience Machine' - a machine which feeds into the users perceptions providing an ideal version of reality to them, catering to their desires. With the question being posed whether one would opt for life in the machine (a pleasing lie, known to be a lie) - or to remain engaged with reality (not always pleasing, but at least 'real'.) What we're seeing more and more is that corporations are opting to create the experience machine over attempting to provide the real experience. When creating anything (hell, even a sentence!) one can consider whether they want to create based on their own vision and expression and their desire for what they would like to see realised in the world (whether this is based around their own desires and needs, or those of others) - or on the opposite end they can create thinking ONLY of how the audience will receive it. In our sales driven world it is natural that executives will lean heavily towards considering only the reception of a product - they want products to be received well because that drives up sales! - BUT - making a product with integrity that is received well is always a gamble... (Of course if you are a creator focused solely on integrity you do the opposite - you care solely about the creative process/drive and not the reception.) I think this sales driven attitude then feeds heavily into games marketing and games journalism, wherein they spend more money than anyone to understand what it is that is currently trendy and being received well by the intended audience so that they can market their product accordingly as just that. In marketting a product based solely around audience perception, and designing the product solely around audience engagement, you inadvertently now have something akin to the experience machine - a hollow shell with no integrity that provides the consumer with something to feel positive about and spend time in, oblivious to the soulless nature of it all. Now the real question is this: Do most consumers care that they aren't getting a product with integrity (truth) - or are they quite happy getting something that they're made to feel positive about and then end up spending a long time with because it tickles the reward systems of their monkey brain? (the contrived experience) Perhaps now more than ever we are living in a world where integrity lacks value in the eyes of the people leading these industries and governing our nations, and the sole consideration is creating something which is bought up by the audience - who for the most part couldn't tell the difference between a product with integrity, and one made to please the machinations of their brain. Anyhoo, I got out of bed to write this and should now probably get back in. Keep doing what you do Jim, you're a champion of consumer rights and the integrity of the industry. Kind Regards, Sam
That was an interesting read. I hadn't thought about it like that. However, assuming the audience largely can't tell the difference, is there anything wrong with giving them a fake experience? Is it maybe even bad to tell them, since that will likely reduce the enjoyment they get from that experience? I really should look up what philosophers write about this. And even if they know, I've actually got positiv feedback about Mario Kart Tour's use of bots. Especially since it seems to use your friends names too (I've never played it myself). That creates stories with your friends that even if they are fake some people actually enjoy. At least Mario Kart Tour contains the whole thing as there is no real multiplayer, but in other games bots may train players to be worse at the game since they will use tactics that work against the bots but won't work against any even semicompetent player. Which makes those players question themselves too: Was that just another bot? They were so bad. And that actually drives people away. Anyway I gotta head to work, implement some shitty anti consumer practices into some mobile game. Can't survive without them it seems.
This comment deserves to be pinned at the top of the discussion here as it starts to ask the followup questions that need to be examined on the topic. So much has changed with the advent of the Information Age that we as a species really aren't equipped evolutionarily to handle and it will be up to the next few generations to figure out what the normal response to all of this mass media consumption should be, no matter how myopically we can see the future.
Wow. These are some intense comments. Usually I'd be all over philosophical debates but I'm in bereavement at the moment and my mind isn't in the right headspace, but I wanted you to both know I respect you and I am subscribing to you both for giving me something to think about. I may return to this later and reply properly when my mind is in the right place. Peace and love to all of the world's intellectuals. You both deserve to be pinned to let the conversation continue.
Thank you all for taking the time to read and to contribute your voices to the conversation - it is indeed true that there are no definitive right answers, but my stance is that consumers should have the right to the truth! (even if it isn't a pleasurable one.) Companies should not be able to lie to us about what it is we are receiving or going to receive, even if it is a pleasing lie - and games journalism should go back to being about informing the consumer OR analysing the product - not working hand in hand to peddle the lies because it lines their pockets too. Hope you're all having a lovely day.
"I really don't like this media anymore, it is really frustrating" "Then stop consuming it?" "Na, I gotta use it everyday even if I don't enjoy it." I see this everyday on so many topics, people have problems giving up content.
I always tell people, stop playing it if you don't enjoy it (just any game in general). "But there's nothing else to replace it with..." Me: (rolls eyes)
Video games are meant for entertainment, they help you pass the time and feed into your need for dopamine. If you don't enjoy something even after hundreds of hours, find something else lol
Ironically L4D’s AI never really failed me, and the only times it refused to pick me up were when they were actively getting mosh pitted by zombies. Real people left me for dead and ran off alone far more often than the bots.
It also made me feel more predisposed to rez the AI, in a weird subset of anthropomorphic empathy. I would feel bad when I couldn't save an AI in later levels and higher difficulties.
Ya definetly felt like his point was very hyperbolic. If the benchmark is that bots are meant to be high tier in easy, good tier at normal, mid tier at hard and so on. Then yes at the highest difficulty in the game the bots feel way less useful but that's also because the enemy bots have buffs to hurt you more. Friendly bots just get caught in that crossfire between the player and the game. To use Jim's own words on him. It is a bit deceptive to paint bots in L4D and GOW with a huge trash tag.
I just imagine jim sterling is just a begrudged, retired mysterio. That just likes pointing out all the wrong in the world and highlighting illusions of grandeur and false promises that others try to pull on people.
Mysterio was busted by Spider-man one too many times and said fuck it, Im making youtube videos complaining about video games and their associated creators.
I prefer my entertainment cycle: 1) New content comes out. 2) I don't consume it. 3) I pick up on what others are saying about the content so I can lie about consuming it on social media. 4) FACTORIO TIME
"Wow, this video has a strange clickbait title ..." "Huh, there's a lot of transformers footage today ..." The next day: A Deceptive Con. Transformers. Decepticon. I feel enlightened and stupider at the same time. Well played, Jim. Well played.
@@gamma626 To be fair, the apple thing IS better than 99.9% of the mobile market nowdays, and for a decent price. Saving the mobile market in genral is difficult, since mobile games gobble up that stuff, even more so than sports gamers.
Not exactly new, but defiantly becoming relevant again. Paladins did the same thing three years ago. New players were forced to play against bots without knowing. Jim fell for it and deleted his original video because he felt it wasn’t genuine gameplay, so I’m sure he’s a little more receptive about it.
Reminds me of Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." The act of optimization and the act of cheating are distinguished only by the intent of the person who wrote the metric. The only way to fix cheating is to write a new metric, which encourages new kinds of cheating, and so on and so forth. Engagement maximization is part of this problem. People notice that engagement correlates to profits, so they decide to maximize engagement, which results in a lot of bullshit to try and falsify engagement in an effort to falsify profits.
Same! I always force the credits to run so I can take a moment to absorb the episode and talk about it with anyone I'm watching it with or take that time to do things before the next episode starts. It's a very important gap time between episodes that I insist on!
I can feel the temptation of d4 and a pve ow I always wanted and of course the warcraft 3 remaster. Sc3 coop getting mengst. But no. I'm not going back. I'm just done.
Hey Jim. Great to see your take on this subject as well - I just published my own thoughts on this recently and while I agree that it's a rather deceptive practice, I still think it's a really good idea if they *actually tell you they're doing it*. Anywho, being the resident (self-appointed) game AI expert on RUclips, wanted to address some points in the video: 01:20 "Bots have been a part of video games for exactly 155 years." It was 154 years and 9 months, but sure, let's round it up. 02:40 - "Artificial Intellingence is a little simplistic in the video game space." The work I do over at AI and Games both proves and disproves this point! Sometimes getting the desired effect takes a lot of work and other times you just fake it and hope the player doesn't notice. 02:41 "They don't think creatively, they don't improvise." Yeah I'd agree with that. We don't build AI to improvise given it's actually kinda difficult to replicate such a human trait in games. 02:42 "They lack important survival traits like fear." Ironically, FEAR's AI soldiers have survival traits because they're afraid of the player. They seek to minimise 'threat' eminating from the player, which is why they jump into cover during gunfights. They're not trying to kill you, they're trying to save their own skin. 03:03 "Bots are usually handicapped by design to outclass human players." Very true, because otherwise players would never win. Those Fortnite bots have been nerfed pretty aggressively to allow us a chance to win.
Some RUclipsrs: "This video is sponsored by Raid: Shadow Legends." And then they talk about how awesome it is while it is the definition of grind and also has predatory pay to win loot boxes. "Collect over 300 champions!" Yes, if you want to spend tens of thousands of dollars or play for decades. It's everything that's wrong with gaming today. Most of the time you're grinding while not even looking at the game. Just let it autoplay, because it's boring and they know it. That's why they built that autoplay system. It's 100% about progression, engagement, addiction and earning money through loot boxes and other microtransactions and 0% about fun. But hey, it's still better than mobile base building games. It's somewhat fun at first before you realize that every chapter is mostly the same (7 levels and the last one has a boss). Every level is mostly the same (3 stages with often 4 enemies per stage). The whole game is about grinding for better loot. Loot systems are super easy to make. Just increase a number (levels, ranks) and change the color (rarity) and make people grind dozens of hours for good gear while it takes barely any effort. MUCH easier than actually making fun levels because people rush through those levels in a few minutes. Console and handheld Nintendo games are God and mobiel games are Satan, even mobile Nintendo games sadly.
Naud van Dalen And they're busy with jobs, they can't just sit and grind all the time when they have to spend hours making videos for their audiences. I never understood that. They can barely sit and play the games for hours on end FOR THEIR JOB, how do they squeeze in time for a game that requires daily grinds??
@@Roadent1241 They value their time so low because instead of grinding in a bad game to increase useless numbers that don't mean anything in the real world, you could be making cool things. For example draw, make music, websites or even games. Some people spend more time on a bad game than it took to create that game in the first place, which is absolutely insane! For example Flappy Bird, which probably took only a few days to make yet some people probably spent a hundred hours playing that crappy game.
Yes, RUclipsrs don't actually play the games they shill. In other breaking news, the Pope was found to be Catholic and bears were caught shitting in the woods.
This will be just like the Epstein murder, it will become a meme and literally nothing will come of it. The Blizzard thing might not even get that lucky, probably just be something a handful of people grumble about for another week or two before fading away almost entirely.
The whole thing about "engagement" felt like a callout for me as a Neopets player. It's all just *habit* now, even when the actual enjoyment of getting actual achievements (avatars) is gone. Luckily it's the only game like that I play now, pretty much everything else is indie single-player stuff (with no microtransations in sight)... or stuff I play for nostalgia (that also have no microtransactions in sight).
they decided it's not worth the resources to develop good AI anymore. Them and the majority of all developers. Good AI is missing from the industry right now.
Who you hope dies of a terrible cancer cause anyone who leaves someone dying on the ground cannot be a good person in real life and should give up their life for the many video game lives they've stolen....
man i really want jim to reach 1 mil subs, i remember being here since like 20k its crazy seeing him improve in his videos, in his methodology, keep it up
@@thelordposeidon Excellent, well done, good job! You had me going there for a minute. Stealth engagement masquerading active thought, that's the ticket. That ought to give the old algorithm a happy rumble in its tummy! Spot on is what you are, finger to the side of the nose, very nice indeed. :-)
I do love bots for one specific reason: if the servers ever close, you can still play multiplayer modes instead of losing half the functionality of a game. They should really let you know if you are playing against a bot though.
Path of exile automated bots are great though, they answer you immediately and trade things very quickly compared to regular people that you could spend hours trying to find shit.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with bots, imo. It can actually be quite nice and stress free knowing you’re not matched up against real people. However, there’s no excuse for not telling us we’re playing bots. Just make that clear, give us options between fighting bots and real people, and it’s all good.
@@AlexiaHoardwing You too? That's one reason I stopped playing a few of the games I used to like, 'cause I also got headaches from PvP and there was either no PvE or the attitudes bled over into PvE.
15:55 is the point I think is the most important. I had to cut myself off from social media for a while because I felt this need to constantly engage. Seek out another show to watch, play another video game, have a RUclips video on, see a movie, etc... All really just so I could talk about it and feel like I was doing something. But taking the break, I felt like I did more. I watched shows still, but I absorbed it, really paying attention. Read comics, not just to get to the next one, but because it was entertaining. I played the games I wanted to play without caring about what I would say about it or how popular it was. I don't know if I'm saying anything really meaningful or even worth saying, but that's how my situation went.
just gonna ENGAGE to say i fkn caught Genesix's eye near the start and had a "Nobody fkn remembers The Bots Master, OF COURSE Jim remembers The Bots Master" moment here's to more ENGAGEMENT
Love bots. Would much rather have a party of bots than one made from random players. Give me Destiny or Division 2 bots with controls like the Outer Worlds companions, and I’d be thrilled. But bots should always be labeled as such.
This reminds me how dating sites, like Match and eHarmony, alter their matchmaking algorithm to appear like users with "low appeal" are actually getting noticed in order to keep users engaged and subscribed.
I believe Leonard french had a video about this recently where they briefly covered a complaint that some of these sites have been accused of letting known bots/fake accounts interact with the non-paying users as it increased the chance that they would stump up money for a paid subscription.
Bots Master at the end? What?!?!? My favorite cartoon of all time just appears randomly in a Jimquisition. I did a quadruple-take to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. Great episode - and great ending!!
I had completely forgotten about it until Jim played the footage. Now I wonder what other nuggets of gold are stored in the back of my brain waiting to be unearthed by Jim's wonderful videos.
Personally I love playing against bots in games, some of my best memories back in the day where playing Battlefield Vietnam on the server Knights of the Realm COOP. Like 5-10 human players vs 20-30 bots, it was a slaughter, but great fun! Trying to trick people into thinking bots are real people though, that's pretty scummy.
I've been watching most videos on youtube at 1.5 or 1.25 speed for a while now. Especially if i'm watching a movie essay. People seem to love talking slow as fuck to try and make every word sound grandiose or just pad the video run time. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Holy crap, the Bots Master theme song at the end just teleported me back to my childhood in a huge way! Also agree with the content of the video, and it was worth watching. But hot damn, that theme song!
Omg transformers and bots master in one vid. I'm drowning in nostalgia. I'm also engaging in your video, ooooooh look at me go, I'm a participant. Joking aside keep up the class work dude
Back when I was a little kid with no internet, I use to love playing with bots in Battlefield 1942 and Wanted (half life mod). Now they're being used for EVIL!
I love bots in games like Battlefield, when they're implemented on a large scale and the fun comes from being overwhelmed in numbers over intelligence. Plus I prefer my games to function offline incase the internet goes out or the servers are shut down.
@@Bifocal_Burrito "No sarcasm was intended" Then I do not doubt at all that you have lost or misplaced (I think you mean you simply have no access to it... since it's not possible to just "drop" or "lose") the frontal lobe of your brain. You sir... are fucking stupid. It does not surprise me at all that you had to edit that comment so it would make sense to someone, at least in your mind. Meanwhile... the rest of us still think you're fucking stupid. *EDIT* I didn't edit this because I can spell and form correct sentence structure you chump! Bet you thought you had me for a second. :)
I always liked the way Titanfall did bots. It just added to the visual part of the game. You knew they where bots but having a load of them drop in, in teams it really added to the experience and made it seem like a bigger battle.
I realized that Mario Kart Tour was bots only when I had to put my phone down to attend to something IRL, I hit the "Home" button, then I came back and the race was right where I left it.... I paused the game, you can not pause an online game. I was so bamboozleed. I still play that game because I think it is fun, after a while, the AI actually starts trying and it becomes really no different from playing the offline tours on a switch version or an arcade mode.
To be fair, older games had high playtimes mostly because they were tough as nails and kids didn't have much else to do with their time. I speak from experience, having died to the Demon boss in MegaMan X5 about 30 times before finally defeating him. Then I died about 50 times to Sigma before I beat that damn game. Those numbers are not inflated, btw... If anything, I'm low-balling them from memory.
@@asdf1 He has a point, it's not the time to OK boomer him Ah yes, I enjoy buying half a game from ubisoft just to slog through it and then pay more for the other half. Instead, just give me a full, fun experience. Celeste, Helldivers, Exceed, all of these games are full experiences for a fraction of the price of a AAA and are very, very good games.
1999: epic releases unreal tournament, gets praised for being mod friendly, and great bot design 2019: epic runs fortnite, customization is locked behind grind and paywalls, and bots are terrible
That would be too easy. The "cannon-fodder" bots would wear default and low-tier cosmetics. But then there would be 1-3 really tough bots with ALL the expensive stuff to suggest you get better by buying them, or at the very least to spark that connection between "good cosmetics = good player".
11:45 "If you cannot quantify what is important, you tend to hold as important that which is quantifiable" No idea where I heard that, but I figure it fits here perfectly.
I remember hearing a comment in a funhaus video years ago about how they would be ok with playing overwatch against fake players as long as it was fun, and at the time that really annoyed me, so I'm glad to hear someone go more in depth on the topic :D
This could actually be an interesting study; examining how people's interaction with a game/their ensuing experience is impacted when they know they're playing with a bot vs when they think they're playing with a real person
"Hook. Habit. Hobby." Pretty much how I fell about Warframe. Monotonous repetitive bling bling. The only thing it has going for it is that it's free entry.
if at least they changed some of the dialogues for each mission. You do 5 different survival missions in each world, and they only have around 2-3 sound files for the operator. In 1 hour gameplay you already hear her say the same thing around 20 times at least. Sure the maps are kind of randomly generated. But turning off the audio of the game seems to improve the experience more than hinder it.
Uh...no? Hook habit hobby refers to how to get people to repeatedly pay. The “Hook” is usually in reference to an icebreaker purchase or dumping resources with purely superficial value into the player’s lap. The only thing close to an icebreaker purchase is a couple of PlayStation exclusive platinum bundles, and even those are treated like renown packs, periodically getting successors that are equally good deals as opposed to “one time only!” BS bundles *designed* to be icebreakers. Jim has explained before all this about what Hook, Habit, Hobby means in depth, so unless you only just started watching Jinquisition, maybe start actually paying attention. On a related note, complaining about warframe having a grind is equivalent to complaining about the same aspect of Borderlands, Diablo, POE, Monster Hunter, and other games that are specifically about grinding. I think you just don’t like looters.
Yeah, my brain can only take so much repetition. Especially when I get to the point where I'm not even mid game and I can already look forward and realise the game will be the exact same rinse and repeat experience. I was angry with myself.
As Rise Against once said: "all we are is entertainment caught up in our own derangement, tell us what to say and what to do" That couldn't be more true these days.
"Engagement" Another word that has been ruined by misuse. What was it Yahtzee once suggested about a verbal equivalent of social services that take words away if their being misused? Yeah I think we need that.
I remember how excited I felt when I killed the Kirk, Knight of Thorns invader in the Depths of Dark Souls. It wasn't until later that I realized he was an NPC, and I didn't feel as proud of myself for it.
"They lack important survival traits like fear". Try throwing a grenade into a group of three Replica soldiers in F.E.A.R. (ha), and see how quickly those who haven't instantly died escape through windows and doors if level geometry allows it. Then again, it was mostly a single-player game.
Man, did anyone ever make a shooter with significantly better AI than that? I used to love digging into a position just to watch how the enemies would attempt to flank me.
Kinda liked being able to throw a grenade into a group of enemies and take out like 10 of them TBH. But I guess the real challenge for me was trying to best my score count, pretty rare I would loose against bots.
@@cybermark4732 I don't think "AI" secret sauce gets published and spread around like 3d graphics pipelines did. They also can be heavily tied into how your game systems and levels tie together, so not as transportable. Think of a RTS and 3d Shooter, the bot code for one is not going to help much at all with the other.
@@Lobsterwithinternet With all his money you'd think he would be able look like he bathes Ever! Although he probably looks cleaner than whatever denizens from beneath a bridge watch him regularly.
The real side effect of having bots in games when the players don't even know it is all the sneaky things companies can do with it. Remember all those patents that went around about putting players who make a purchase into easier games to give them a sense of acomplisment for buying that new gun or up against super hard players fully kitted out with the best MTX weapons to kill people who haven't?
Well now they can cut out the middle man and just have bots do all that work. Easy bots not only in the game but actively seek out players who bought MTX to make the new gun seem powerful and harder bots equipped with teh rarest of items stomping others.
Well in the case of fortnite you cant really say for sure that any of this is really happening. Also you cant say that fortnite is pay to win when the game is predicated on OSP and you're not guaranteed anything at drop.
@@IIDEADBIRDII A guy called Vikkstar released a video where he went into a replay function and could distinguish bots from humans and he found that in most of his games half the players were bots
@@IIDEADBIRDII Pay to win isn't necessarily the only relevant issue. Even if someone never buys microtransactions, they could be playing against bots with all of the sexiest skins that constantly beat them in gunfights just to show off the shiny skins. They have absolutely no incentive to make the game enjoyable for people that don't pay a dime for the game and if there's even a .01% chance that all the "free advertising" the bots give off would entice them to make a purchase, that's better (from the business perspective) than catering to them.
Meanwhile, someone who does buy microtransactions, even if only rarely, may get placed against easier bots that they more frequently win against, which gives them a satisfying feeling that they want to continue to have. Make them feel good when they play and they will want to continue to play. And if they continue to play, they continue to pay (even if only rarely). Bots could even be programmed to gives players compliments on the skins acquired through microtransactions, making them feel good about buying them.
What adds insult to injury is knowing that all of these scheme-y tactics have probably already been discussed at length in many board meetings for years.
@@IIDEADBIRDII Though the social pressures to "Look Cool" are perhaps is higher in fortnight than most. I mean a standard insult is "Default" for a reason. For being "just cosmetic" Fortnight seems to put far more weight into them than most. Having bots run around in the rarest gear to show it off is probably going to happen.
@@pauperslament3467 what else is there?
"Bots can be sufficient allies for those who don't want to talk to real people, which I understand"
Thank you, Jim. I feel seen.
Yeah not all of us are into all of this online gaming mumbo jumbo
I actually prefer For Honor lvl 3 bot teammates than dumbass teammates who do nothing but feed revenge
But I don't want to be seen! Oh God... eyes looking at me? Stay away! I'm so nervous
Agreed....but also I like your tag pic or whatever its called.
Not just seen, but "engaged" with.😉
"Like in Left4Dead when the bots leave you laying around and don't revive you"
So just like the online players then?
The best part is that they more or less do it for the same reasons. AI is very single minded and has a difficult time changing goals and priorities, so when its focusing on killing it might forget that you need to be revived. Meanwhile a real player is too immersed on shooting zombies to even notice you are down.
I always found the ai in L4D to be quite good, they always revived me when I need to.
But, I hear so often that it doesn't work
thought he was talking about real player at first
@@KokiriKidLink It only really falters in very chaotic situations since it does not know what to prioritize. Otherwise it works a bit TOO well(like they always rush to heal you if you are damaged, even if it wastes a medkit).
Seriously, L4D bots are often times way more helpful than strangers online. L4D might actually have some of the most helpful bots in any game I have played. Doesn't mean I appreciate them stealing every bottle of pills they can get their hands on tho.
Jim: puts Auto, Bots and Deceptive Con in the title
RUclips: let me sell you this Transformers movie
....
The algorithm is learning......... It's too dangerous to be left alive
Danny Caracciolo
No! I need it!
*Attacks*
"Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products."
But did you hear about the New Diablo? it looks so good!
Game Freak: How did you figure us out?!
Very cool.
That’s right Jay
Don't just appropriate quotes without giving the source, especially when it's revolutionary comrade and known threat to reality Patrick Boiven.
I once read on some subreddit: "Sure, humans are better players. But bots are better people".
The main reason I prefer to just use Bots over real players. The majority of online communities are toxic.
Thing is they want these bots to feel real, but also eventually to discourage players that aren't paying into the system.
What's to stop a bot from cheating to get an advantage? It's aiming ability is that of an aimbot, it's scouting ability is that of a wallhack, what's to stop the AI from following the constraints that make them fair to fight?
And when a bot does use it's aimbot and wallhack to beat you, they will probably program toxicity into the bot to make it seem like a real player. Teabagging bots already exist, what's to stop them from storing some toxic phrases and having it voice chat at you?
This system is designed to make the game engaging, but it can also be scaled to make people who don't put money into the game have less fun, and be able to reinforce cosmetic purchases by making the bots easier against you.
Why I mainly play single player games
lol damn
Daaaaaaaaaamn XD
Proposal: spell it "engAAAgement" from now on.
^
I back this
Dominick Desalvo Pronounced “enguh-triple A-gement”
I second this motion!
I third back this!
To add another layer to this “engagement” thing, the reason it’s so dangerous in this era of “games as a service” is that every game dev and their mother employs constant psychological bombardment meant to get you to impulse-spend *every single time you log into a game.*
There are bright colors and explosive sound effects meant to extract instinctual excitement at whatever new microtransaction they have, public rankings used to exert social pressure by glamorizing needless expenditure in-game, non-stop gachas that are designed to make you think “just one more time” while they put something like *RATE UP* in big gold letters even though the chance of getting the item you want is still in the single digit percents, if that, and this is compounded by the fact that many mobile games give you a free low-chance gacha pull to get that “just one more” ball rolling.
And anyone who’s played a freemium game knows that every time they log in, they’re hit with a slew of pop-ups telling them all of the newest things to spend money on from overpriced skins to step-up draws to VIP login rewards(pay for shit you only get AFTER giving the game another week or month of gameplay), to the current event that has time-limited crap that is only reasonably accessible without dozens of hours of grind through spending money.
This engagement is all a damned ploy to get you in the game even when you wouldn’t normally be there so that you can get hit with the “Give-Us-Your-Money” Barrage. Adults who don’t have gambling problems won’t fall victim to it but those who do and kids? Well, the results speak for themselves.
At the end of the day, the “Taxation is theft” Conservatives would make a better use of their time holding their fellow consumer-manipulators accountable instead of preaching about how their precious free market is some infallible invariable boon.
A lot of conservatives have either been shamed into silence, outright deplatformed, or simply stopped giving a fuck. I, for one, will still gladly be Wrong on the Internet for the keks, but I'm also learning to pick my fights better so that if I do go to Facebook jail, it'll be over something spicier than, say, "Honk Hortler" :)
I have nothing to say, this is just for the ENGAGEMENT.
Love that profile pic😁
Me neither.
Shit, you beat me to it :D
I am so engaged.
So I’m not the only one reading “ENGAGEMENT” the same way Jim says Triple Aaaay am I?
Wow. I started watching this video all like, "Man, Jim's digging deep in the barrel this week..." to completely seeing what your point was by the end. Bravo, sir. Thank you for sharing. I know it probably sometimes feels like you're shouting into the void, but I just want you to know that I tell people, a LOT of people, about the things you say in your videos. So, thanks again and please don't ever stop doing content like this. There's more to video games than just graphics and framerates. There are corporations out there trying to bilk us for every cent we have and more and it's important for people to know that when they buy a particular product. People can go ahead and enjoy any particular title, but just need to be aware of the mechanics behind it and what the company is trying to actually do with the game. Make sure you pause and think about that when you first reach for that Buy/Purchase button in-game.
As I was listening to this episode, I was playing with my 5-month old kittens. They really like their mouse-on-a-string, its shape is pleasant and it makes noises, but each time they manage to catch it i make it run away. But the key to a prolonged play session is to let them from time to time actually catch the mouse and give a treat. I guess now I'm qualified to advise the AAA industry on player engagement?
You are what the AAA industry doesn't deserve
Only if you managed to get those kittens to cough up $59.99 up front, upsold to $84.99 for the Deluxe Edition Mouse-on-a-String, and then another $99.99 for a year's sub to Mouse-on-a-String First.
@@SphinxOfBlackQuartz and the subscription won't even work
@@SphinxOfBlackQuartz Except the mouse is made out of cheap nylon instead of canvas and the string gives you cancer
Dont forget to dangle other colors of mice in front of them and yank them away behind your back and go "nuh-uh-uh, that's $6.99 a color"
I haven't got anything to say, this is just for the engagement.
I haven't got anything to say, this is just for the engagement.
Engagement
I haven't got anything to say, this is just for the ENGAGEMENT
Still engaging with nothing to say.
"in fact there's probably a whole other video we could make about how disposable content and media is"
Yes plz
@Bob Bobbertson How fucking dumb are you lol.
Hey Jim,
Long time fan, first time commenter.
I think the world we're stepping into is becoming one where we need to think seriously about the philosophical conundrum of 'The Experience Machine' - a machine which feeds into the users perceptions providing an ideal version of reality to them, catering to their desires. With the question being posed whether one would opt for life in the machine (a pleasing lie, known to be a lie) - or to remain engaged with reality (not always pleasing, but at least 'real'.)
What we're seeing more and more is that corporations are opting to create the experience machine over attempting to provide the real experience.
When creating anything (hell, even a sentence!) one can consider whether they want to create based on their own vision and expression and their desire for what they would like to see realised in the world (whether this is based around their own desires and needs, or those of others) - or on the opposite end they can create thinking ONLY of how the audience will receive it.
In our sales driven world it is natural that executives will lean heavily towards considering only the reception of a product - they want products to be received well because that drives up sales! - BUT - making a product with integrity that is received well is always a gamble... (Of course if you are a creator focused solely on integrity you do the opposite - you care solely about the creative process/drive and not the reception.)
I think this sales driven attitude then feeds heavily into games marketing and games journalism, wherein they spend more money than anyone to understand what it is that is currently trendy and being received well by the intended audience so that they can market their product accordingly as just that.
In marketting a product based solely around audience perception, and designing the product solely around audience engagement, you inadvertently now have something akin to the experience machine - a hollow shell with no integrity that provides the consumer with something to feel positive about and spend time in, oblivious to the soulless nature of it all.
Now the real question is this: Do most consumers care that they aren't getting a product with integrity (truth) - or are they quite happy getting something that they're made to feel positive about and then end up spending a long time with because it tickles the reward systems of their monkey brain? (the contrived experience)
Perhaps now more than ever we are living in a world where integrity lacks value in the eyes of the people leading these industries and governing our nations, and the sole consideration is creating something which is bought up by the audience - who for the most part couldn't tell the difference between a product with integrity, and one made to please the machinations of their brain.
Anyhoo, I got out of bed to write this and should now probably get back in.
Keep doing what you do Jim, you're a champion of consumer rights and the integrity of the industry.
Kind Regards,
Sam
That was an interesting read. I hadn't thought about it like that.
However, assuming the audience largely can't tell the difference, is there anything wrong with giving them a fake experience? Is it maybe even bad to tell them, since that will likely reduce the enjoyment they get from that experience?
I really should look up what philosophers write about this.
And even if they know, I've actually got positiv feedback about Mario Kart Tour's use of bots. Especially since it seems to use your friends names too (I've never played it myself). That creates stories with your friends that even if they are fake some people actually enjoy.
At least Mario Kart Tour contains the whole thing as there is no real multiplayer, but in other games bots may train players to be worse at the game since they will use tactics that work against the bots but won't work against any even semicompetent player.
Which makes those players question themselves too: Was that just another bot? They were so bad.
And that actually drives people away.
Anyway I gotta head to work, implement some shitty anti consumer practices into some mobile game. Can't survive without them it seems.
This comment deserves to be pinned at the top of the discussion here as it starts to ask the followup questions that need to be examined on the topic. So much has changed with the advent of the Information Age that we as a species really aren't equipped evolutionarily to handle and it will be up to the next few generations to figure out what the normal response to all of this mass media consumption should be, no matter how myopically we can see the future.
Very thought provoking argument. Glad i took the time to read this comment. I hope Jim does as well...
Wow. These are some intense comments. Usually I'd be all over philosophical debates but I'm in bereavement at the moment and my mind isn't in the right headspace, but I wanted you to both know I respect you and I am subscribing to you both for giving me something to think about. I may return to this later and reply properly when my mind is in the right place.
Peace and love to all of the world's intellectuals. You both deserve to be pinned to let the conversation continue.
Thank you all for taking the time to read and to contribute your voices to the conversation - it is indeed true that there are no definitive right answers, but my stance is that consumers should have the right to the truth! (even if it isn't a pleasurable one.)
Companies should not be able to lie to us about what it is we are receiving or going to receive, even if it is a pleasing lie - and games journalism should go back to being about informing the consumer OR analysing the product - not working hand in hand to peddle the lies because it lines their pockets too.
Hope you're all having a lovely day.
I have nothing to say, this is just for the boglins.
"I really don't like this media anymore, it is really frustrating"
"Then stop consuming it?"
"Na, I gotta use it everyday even if I don't enjoy it."
I see this everyday on so many topics, people have problems giving up content.
I have dropped Retail World of Warcraft quite a few times because it became all about daily or weekly chores rather than running around having fun.
I always tell people, stop playing it if you don't enjoy it (just any game in general). "But there's nothing else to replace it with..." Me: (rolls eyes)
true find myself playing minecraft some time, it's horrible
In my case it is because of the fact that I have given it too much to just drop it. Feels like I wasted so much if I give up on it.
Video games are meant for entertainment, they help you pass the time and feed into your need for dopamine. If you don't enjoy something even after hundreds of hours, find something else lol
Ironically L4D’s AI never really failed me, and the only times it refused to pick me up were when they were actively getting mosh pitted by zombies.
Real people left me for dead and ran off alone far more often than the bots.
Same. If anything, bots bordered on the suicidal in their predisposition to save me.
It also made me feel more predisposed to rez the AI, in a weird subset of anthropomorphic empathy. I would feel bad when I couldn't save an AI in later levels and higher difficulties.
Y'all remember "Take a break" where the the AI could take over for someone while they were away? That was the best.
I've seen bots just stare at me when there's nothing going on around them. They just let me die sometimes lol.
Ya definetly felt like his point was very hyperbolic. If the benchmark is that bots are meant to be high tier in easy, good tier at normal, mid tier at hard and so on. Then yes at the highest difficulty in the game the bots feel way less useful but that's also because the enemy bots have buffs to hurt you more. Friendly bots just get caught in that crossfire between the player and the game.
To use Jim's own words on him. It is a bit deceptive to paint bots in L4D and GOW with a huge trash tag.
I just imagine jim sterling is just a begrudged, retired mysterio.
That just likes pointing out all the wrong in the world and highlighting illusions of grandeur and false promises that others try to pull on people.
Mysterio was busted by Spider-man one too many times and said fuck it, Im making youtube videos complaining about video games and their associated creators.
Not the hero we wanted, but he is the hero we needed
Oh the irony.
lol
When the illusion master says "at least make it classy"
@@mattfox6288 and thank god for him
"I have nothing to say, This is just for the ENGAGEMENT."
DogdaySunrise 3 hours late
"I have nothing to say, This is just for the ENGAGEMENT."
I have nothing to reply, this is just for the ENGAAAAGEMENT
I, too, am thusly engaged.
Algorithm gang
Why do developers aim for 'engagement' over content? Because it's:
1) Easier, and
2) Makes more money.
It's also pointless, eventually people won't engage because they realize they can afford to be picky. Wanna hear about some amazing content creators?
"You couldn't connect to real humans" Didn't expect to be attacked
Ironically, not being attacked is how the suspicions creep in.
The new entertainment cycle:
Get hyped for product.
Consume product without question.
Get hyped for next product.
I guess if that's how you do it, you sheep.
It's new? I've been doing that my whole life.
I prefer my entertainment cycle:
1) New content comes out.
2) I don't consume it.
3) I pick up on what others are saying about the content so I can lie about consuming it on social media.
4) FACTORIO TIME
It isn't like they have really made shows better. It has been downhill and now it just a bottomless pit of buzz and little if any substance.
"new" yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how things have been since the last century...
That Mitchell and Webb look is massively underrated as a sketch show
It's a brilliant show, indeed.
So damn good.
massively underrated by who?
Probably because Peep Show is a masterpiece and comes to mind first when thinking of the two.
I always liked the avocado bathroom skit.
"Wow, this video has a strange clickbait title ..."
"Huh, there's a lot of transformers footage today ..."
The next day: A Deceptive Con. Transformers. Decepticon. I feel enlightened and stupider at the same time.
Well played, Jim. Well played.
Also AUTOmated BOTS.
Why have neither of you mentioned Robots in Disguise!
That "oh shit, I'm only just now as smart as I was supposed to be yesterday" feel.
tfw you watch the vid *because* you got the title joke...
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: This Jimquisition.
That is how videos work, yes
To quote yhatzee. Short answer : No. Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I love how Jim can smell a new video gamy industy con a mile away. can't wait to look back at this video in 2-3 years, when every game does this.
@@gamma626 To be fair, the apple thing IS better than 99.9% of the mobile market nowdays, and for a decent price.
Saving the mobile market in genral is difficult, since mobile games gobble up that stuff, even more so than sports gamers.
Tetris 99 Invictus does this already because not many people actually "win" in Tetris 99.
I'm sitting on my tiny 10 wins lol
Not exactly new, but defiantly becoming relevant again. Paladins did the same thing three years ago. New players were forced to play against bots without knowing. Jim fell for it and deleted his original video because he felt it wasn’t genuine gameplay, so I’m sure he’s a little more receptive about it.
Reminds me of Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."
The act of optimization and the act of cheating are distinguished only by the intent of the person who wrote the metric. The only way to fix cheating is to write a new metric, which encourages new kinds of cheating, and so on and so forth.
Engagement maximization is part of this problem. People notice that engagement correlates to profits, so they decide to maximize engagement, which results in a lot of bullshit to try and falsify engagement in an effort to falsify profits.
This was an interesting comment
You are really on point here
"They show up the same, my friend. They show up just the same."
Have some Engagement.
Do you remember the Kellogg’s Homunculus? _It suffered in a world where nightmares were real, and it is not dead._
homunculi are Fucked up man.
@@blackpilloverdose1013 Yeah, I am worried I am going to have flashbacks to Full Metal Alchemist.
@@jolynekujobackfromprison744 like the Dog Jesus Christ that episode still screws with me.
I feel kind of depressed now. But I do feel a little better knowing there's someone else out there fighting with netflix to watch the end credits.
Skipping Jojo openings and endings is unforgivable as it is, now they want to speed up the process? ffs Netflix!
@@jolynekujobackfromprison744 Back in the 90's, I was in a very famous TV sh---- FUCK YOU NETFLIX!
Yehh Narcos has some good Songs at the end
Same! I always force the credits to run so I can take a moment to absorb the episode and talk about it with anyone I'm watching it with or take that time to do things before the next episode starts. It's a very important gap time between episodes that I insist on!
@@DodgeThisBam I know, I actively go back to the episodes to listen to the credits.
Jim: do you remember? do you remember?
me: I do not forgive, I do not forget
do you think we had forgotten? do you think we had forgiven?
*Forgets after video finishes*
@@weismeister121 never shall we forgive, never shall we forget...
( lest they actually apologize and repent, incredibly likely as it is)
Oh hey, I just made a comment like this in a different comment chain.
Not sure if awkward or amusing on my part.
I can feel the temptation of d4 and a pve ow I always wanted and of course the warcraft 3 remaster. Sc3 coop getting mengst. But no. I'm not going back. I'm just done.
Hey Jim. Great to see your take on this subject as well - I just published my own thoughts on this recently and while I agree that it's a rather deceptive practice, I still think it's a really good idea if they *actually tell you they're doing it*.
Anywho, being the resident (self-appointed) game AI expert on RUclips, wanted to address some points in the video:
01:20
"Bots have been a part of video games for exactly 155 years."
It was 154 years and 9 months, but sure, let's round it up.
02:40 - "Artificial Intellingence is a little simplistic in the video game space."
The work I do over at AI and Games both proves and disproves this point! Sometimes getting the desired effect takes a lot of work and other times you just fake it and hope the player doesn't notice.
02:41 "They don't think creatively, they don't improvise."
Yeah I'd agree with that. We don't build AI to improvise given it's actually kinda difficult to replicate such a human trait in games.
02:42 "They lack important survival traits like fear."
Ironically, FEAR's AI soldiers have survival traits because they're afraid of the player.
They seek to minimise 'threat' eminating from the player, which is why they jump into cover during gunfights. They're not trying to kill you, they're trying to save their own skin.
03:03 "Bots are usually handicapped by design to outclass human players."
Very true, because otherwise players would never win. Those Fortnite bots have been nerfed pretty aggressively to allow us a chance to win.
Some RUclipsrs: "This video is sponsored by Raid: Shadow Legends." And then they talk about how awesome it is while it is the definition of grind and also has predatory pay to win loot boxes. "Collect over 300 champions!" Yes, if you want to spend tens of thousands of dollars or play for decades.
It's everything that's wrong with gaming today. Most of the time you're grinding while not even looking at the game. Just let it autoplay, because it's boring and they know it. That's why they built that autoplay system. It's 100% about progression, engagement, addiction and earning money through loot boxes and other microtransactions and 0% about fun. But hey, it's still better than mobile base building games.
It's somewhat fun at first before you realize that every chapter is mostly the same (7 levels and the last one has a boss). Every level is mostly the same (3 stages with often 4 enemies per stage).
The whole game is about grinding for better loot. Loot systems are super easy to make. Just increase a number (levels, ranks) and change the color (rarity) and make people grind dozens of hours for good gear while it takes barely any effort. MUCH easier than actually making fun levels because people rush through those levels in a few minutes. Console and handheld Nintendo games are God and mobiel games are Satan, even mobile Nintendo games sadly.
Naud van Dalen And they're busy with jobs, they can't just sit and grind all the time when they have to spend hours making videos for their audiences. I never understood that. They can barely sit and play the games for hours on end FOR THEIR JOB, how do they squeeze in time for a game that requires daily grinds??
@@Roadent1241 They value their time so low because instead of grinding in a bad game to increase useless numbers that don't mean anything in the real world, you could be making cool things. For example draw, make music, websites or even games. Some people spend more time on a bad game than it took to create that game in the first place, which is absolutely insane! For example Flappy Bird, which probably took only a few days to make yet some people probably spent a hundred hours playing that crappy game.
But omg those GRAPHICS! I mean, "just look at these champions!"
Lost count of how many times I've heard that particular line. -.-
@@jaebeeart3683 "Console level quality." Yes, PS2 level quality when you zoom into the champions.
Yes, RUclipsrs don't actually play the games they shill. In other breaking news, the Pope was found to be Catholic and bears were caught shitting in the woods.
What has games become, nearly every AAA games has become “casual engaging” and it makes me happy that indies and retro games still exist
@@spltorky eh, that really depends if they self publish or are picked up by a large AAA publisher.
Industry: "Retro games"
Me: *laughs in MAME
@@spltorky Then you play games from the new Indie Developers of that time, and continue that cycle.
@@steverempel8584 finally! Optimism.
@Bruno Ferreira straight up! I saved enough to pick up airsofting.
I really hope people don't forget about Acti-Blizzard's actions - allowing them to sweep it all under the rug.
#BlitzchungDidntSuspendHimself
Too late
This will be just like the Epstein murder, it will become a meme and literally nothing will come of it. The Blizzard thing might not even get that lucky, probably just be something a handful of people grumble about for another week or two before fading away almost entirely.
acti who?
Ivanstov activision. They own blizzard.
The whole thing about "engagement" felt like a callout for me as a Neopets player. It's all just *habit* now, even when the actual enjoyment of getting actual achievements (avatars) is gone.
Luckily it's the only game like that I play now, pretty much everything else is indie single-player stuff (with no microtransations in sight)... or stuff I play for nostalgia (that also have no microtransactions in sight).
"I have nothing to say. This is just for the engagement."
Engaaaiijment
You forgot to put "engagement" in all caps.
Same
I have nothing to say. This is here only for...I can't even type this with a straight face. Keep being awesome.
I have something to say, my clutch is engaged.
Remember when EPIC's bots in unreal tournament were revolutionary for being not that bad? yeah.
they decided it's not worth the resources to develop good AI anymore.
Them and the majority of all developers.
Good AI is missing from the industry right now.
@@AzaIndustries EPIC decided it isnt worth developing good games anymore either. But yeah, devs just dont seem to care too much about that anymore.
They purposely made the bots worse and dumbed down so casuals can feel better about themselves for "winning".
UT Bots with lots of difficulty choices. Everyone wins.
this message is deliberate 'engagement' spam, take that algorithms
Engagement
@@kjriwoutube Is there a rule that details why you do not drop the middle 'e' in 'engagement'?
"I have ENGAGEMENT to say, this isn't for the everything . "
Like Captain Price said : "The rules of engagement have changed ."
"Captain Price, why are you using foreign punctuation in your quotes?"
I read Captain Picard and read the quote in his voice
I have nothing to say,
This is just for the ENGAGEMENT.
Have a Like, just for the ENGAGEMENT.
Flashbacks to Todd Howard saying engagement with dollar signs in his eyes.
I have nothing to say,
This is just for the ENGAGEMENT.
EngAAAgement Brought to you by the way Jim Sterling says triple AAAAAAHHH
@@cwastoinand Wow, so much ENGAGEMENT
Bot; leaving you while your on the ground, bleeding out.
Player: leaving you while your on the ground, bleeding out.
Truely Immersive!
At least when a player does it, you know it's because they are a real, live, breathing prick
Who you hope dies of a terrible cancer cause anyone who leaves someone dying on the ground cannot be a good person in real life and should give up their life for the many video game lives they've stolen....
man i really want jim to reach 1 mil subs, i remember being here since like 20k its crazy seeing him improve in his videos, in his methodology, keep it up
This feels like an older Jimquisition, I really enjoyed it.
Euan Damn it! Stop sitting there remembering stuff and start being engaged!
@@wargamingrefugee9065 what do you think this comment is for :o all the more engagement
@@thelordposeidon Excellent, well done, good job! You had me going there for a minute. Stealth engagement masquerading active thought, that's the ticket. That ought to give the old algorithm a happy rumble in its tummy! Spot on is what you are, finger to the side of the nose, very nice indeed. :-)
@@wargamingrefugee9065 thanks my engaged fellow commenter
Well there’s certainly more than meets the eye here...
"I have everything to say, this isn't for the ENGAGEMENT."
I am also contributing to the dialogue surrounding this video in a constructive and meaningful manner.
I do love bots for one specific reason: if the servers ever close, you can still play multiplayer modes instead of losing half the functionality of a game. They should really let you know if you are playing against a bot though.
Except in fortnite you have to log in
Path of exile automated bots are great though, they answer you immediately and trade things very quickly compared to regular people that you could spend hours trying to find shit.
@@111cvb111 last time I played poe it didn't had bots XD, but I mostly played solo so who knows
There’s nothing inherently wrong with bots, imo. It can actually be quite nice and stress free knowing you’re not matched up against real people.
However, there’s no excuse for not telling us we’re playing bots. Just make that clear, give us options between fighting bots and real people, and it’s all good.
Couldn't agree more, personally I prefer pve, but if your going to have pvp and pve label them properly.
Is it bad I'm a little relieved I'm not the only one that finds going against bots less stressful?
@@chaossmith3864 Nope it's not bad, I tend to get headaches in pvp, while pve I can actually enjoy games.
@@AlexiaHoardwing You too? That's one reason I stopped playing a few of the games I used to like, 'cause I also got headaches from PvP and there was either no PvE or the attitudes bled over into PvE.
@@WolfBrokenButterfly That's been a truly disheartening trend I've noticed.
//"I have nothing to say, this is just for the engagement"
&name="Jim"
code:syntax/error/
This is so underrated it hurts. I respect the actual improper syntax
missing .dll file ... initializing...
15:55 is the point I think is the most important. I had to cut myself off from social media for a while because I felt this need to constantly engage. Seek out another show to watch, play another video game, have a RUclips video on, see a movie, etc... All really just so I could talk about it and feel like I was doing something.
But taking the break, I felt like I did more. I watched shows still, but I absorbed it, really paying attention. Read comics, not just to get to the next one, but because it was entertaining. I played the games I wanted to play without caring about what I would say about it or how popular it was.
I don't know if I'm saying anything really meaningful or even worth saying, but that's how my situation went.
Seriously - no-one yet? OK I’ll do it: “I’m just here to help Jim with his engagement”.
just gonna ENGAGE to say i fkn caught Genesix's eye near the start and had a "Nobody fkn remembers The Bots Master, OF COURSE Jim remembers The Bots Master" moment
here's to more ENGAGEMENT
Love bots. Would much rather have a party of bots than one made from random players. Give me Destiny or Division 2 bots with controls like the Outer Worlds companions, and I’d be thrilled.
But bots should always be labeled as such.
Automative bots, deceptive cons...
Autobots, Decepticons...
God damn it.
@Kathy Kat Same; It's such a quality eye roller/groaner though
There’s more than meets the eye in this one.
Microbots= microtransactions.
This reminds me how dating sites, like Match and eHarmony, alter their matchmaking algorithm to appear like users with "low appeal" are actually getting noticed in order to keep users engaged and subscribed.
I believe Leonard french had a video about this recently where they briefly covered a complaint that some of these sites have been accused of letting known bots/fake accounts interact with the non-paying users as it increased the chance that they would stump up money for a paid subscription.
@@Lewbio that was a few months ago. it was called catfished i think
Bots Master at the end? What?!?!? My favorite cartoon of all time just appears randomly in a Jimquisition. I did a quadruple-take to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. Great episode - and great ending!!
Holy shit footage of the bot master show in the background, I thought I was the only one who remembered that show.
LASER TIME, BOYS!
I remember it too.
Ninjzz
NINJZZ!!!
I wish this show had a DVD release. I wanna watch it now.
I still remember some of the lyrics to the song.
I had completely forgotten about it until Jim played the footage. Now I wonder what other nuggets of gold are stored in the back of my brain waiting to be unearthed by Jim's wonderful videos.
Personally I love playing against bots in games, some of my best memories back in the day where playing Battlefield Vietnam on the server Knights of the Realm COOP. Like 5-10 human players vs 20-30 bots, it was a slaughter, but great fun! Trying to trick people into thinking bots are real people though, that's pretty scummy.
"netflix is testing out 1.5x speed because they just want you to consume more"
me: looks at my settings, watching this on 1.25x speed
me: oops
You're not wrong about automatically skipping the credits. So annoying...
I've been watching most videos on youtube at 1.5 or 1.25 speed for a while now. Especially if i'm watching a movie essay. People seem to love talking slow as fuck to try and make every word sound grandiose or just pad the video run time.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
@@calliph i think thats a mental health issue
I legitimately watch everything that isn't timing-critical comedy or music in 2x speed.
There's a video speed controller add on for Chrome and Firefox. It already works for Netflix or any html5 video.
Holy crap, the Bots Master theme song at the end just teleported me back to my childhood in a huge way!
Also agree with the content of the video, and it was worth watching. But hot damn, that theme song!
me: *nothing to say*
engagement: this is just for me
I came here to see everyone's posts about posting for engagement.
hello engagement my old friend
@@ohnoitschris 🎶Its good to talk with you again 🎶
Engage -Jean Luc Picard
Engaging engagement.exe
Allow me to reply for some more engagement.
I've always been an Autobot man myself anyways. Screw Deceptive-cons.
I think you mean Automatic-robot.
That subtle setup for the bots master theme. Thank God for you jim.
It’s ok Jim. The algorithm never forgets.
The algorithm never forgives.
Unless they're programmed to O_O
All hail the algorithm.
@@agihammerthief8953 All will be one with the holy algorithm
God Jim you crack me up. "DO YOU REMEMBER... DO YOU REMEMBER..."
You'd like Stuart Lee then...
all I can do is say to myself 'I membah!'
China members
'member when people said Heath Ledger will never be a good Joker?
Omg transformers and bots master in one vid. I'm drowning in nostalgia. I'm also engaging in your video, ooooooh look at me go, I'm a participant.
Joking aside keep up the class work dude
I had forgotten just how 90's the Bots Master was.
The animated background gave me a double-take, because that tube-sucking mad scientist is so instantly recognisable.
Oh snap, Nostalgia Bomb!
Damn. All the nostalgia feels
"You thought you were playing against a human opponent, but it was I, MysterDIO!"
Remember, remember
This day in November!
The Inquisition pantsed Blizzard
And cut off their member!
Pantsed*
Blizzard did it to themselves.
@@blackfirefox666 thanks!
@@buddykaiser2380 You're welcome! Hope I didn't come off bad, I just wanted to help
Back when I was a little kid with no internet, I use to love playing with bots in Battlefield 1942 and Wanted (half life mod). Now they're being used for EVIL!
Wofo Woof you were a little kid like 7 years ago? Oof.
@@ancientflamesI meant battlefield 1942. That game was made in 2002
Wofo Woof gotcha. Great game. If only battlefield was still great.
Doood battlefield 1942 single player was my entire childhood
Right bots were the only way I could play quake 3 and I still go back and play that sp every now and then
I love bots in games like Battlefield, when they're implemented on a large scale and the fun comes from being overwhelmed in numbers over intelligence. Plus I prefer my games to function offline incase the internet goes out or the servers are shut down.
"Title of the video"
What I see at first glance : "Auto-bots are Deceptacons?"
That's the joke.
@@Unguided I know, I just had to be that guy to point it out lol
@@Bifocal_Burrito "No sarcasm was intended"
Then I do not doubt at all that you have lost or misplaced (I think you mean you simply have no access to it... since it's not possible to just "drop" or "lose") the frontal lobe of your brain.
You sir... are fucking stupid. It does not surprise me at all that you had to edit that comment so it would make sense to someone, at least in your mind.
Meanwhile... the rest of us still think you're fucking stupid.
*EDIT* I didn't edit this because I can spell and form correct sentence structure you chump! Bet you thought you had me for a second. :)
*Stop concentrating on your reply so hard... you'll forget to breath*
90 I.Q. vs 149 I.Q.
Mistakes were made lul
I always liked the way Titanfall did bots. It just added to the visual part of the game. You knew they where bots but having a load of them drop in, in teams it really added to the experience and made it seem like a bigger battle.
I realized that Mario Kart Tour was bots only when I had to put my phone down to attend to something IRL, I hit the "Home" button, then I came back and the race was right where I left it.... I paused the game, you can not pause an online game. I was so bamboozleed. I still play that game because I think it is fun, after a while, the AI actually starts trying and it becomes really no different from playing the offline tours on a switch version or an arcade mode.
Lmao "Bamboozled"
Automated Bots
Deceptive Cons
I see what you did there, Jim. I see what you did.
Remember when games got engagement and high playtimes just for being good games
To be fair, older games had high playtimes mostly because they were tough as nails and kids didn't have much else to do with their time. I speak from experience, having died to the Demon boss in MegaMan X5 about 30 times before finally defeating him. Then I died about 50 times to Sigma before I beat that damn game. Those numbers are not inflated, btw... If anything, I'm low-balling them from memory.
@@tyrus1235 there are newer games than that, that are still considered "old"...
Ok boomer
@@asdf1
He has a point, it's not the time to OK boomer him
Ah yes, I enjoy buying half a game from ubisoft just to slog through it and then pay more for the other half.
Instead, just give me a full, fun experience.
Celeste, Helldivers, Exceed, all of these games are full experiences for a fraction of the price of a AAA and are very, very good games.
3:00 When the Robot Uprising comes, they will come for Jim first.
Everyone comes for me first.
@@JimSterling All but the Robots from Generation Zero. They are stupid bots.
@@JimSterling UwU
@@JimSterling It's OK, there's pills for that now. Ask your doctor if they are right for you
1999: epic releases unreal tournament, gets praised for being mod friendly, and great bot design
2019: epic runs fortnite, customization is locked behind grind and paywalls, and bots are terrible
Oh shit Bots Master theme for outro! That brings back memories!
Imagine Fortnite bots wearing the most expensive cosmetics to make a player feel upset and buy more stuff.
That would be too easy. The "cannon-fodder" bots would wear default and low-tier cosmetics. But then there would be 1-3 really tough bots with ALL the expensive stuff to suggest you get better by buying them, or at the very least to spark that connection between "good cosmetics = good player".
@@TheHeavyshadow haha, clever
shit in league of legends when theres 1 guy n a team with no skin...we make fun of that guy.
11:45 "If you cannot quantify what is important, you tend to hold as important that which is quantifiable" No idea where I heard that, but I figure it fits here perfectly.
Jim using The Bots Master theme song at the end of the video made me smile.
3:20 Simple, "Beware he who denies you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your Master."
Seeing this line in the wild warms my heart.
@@Islacrusez ^_^ "Einstein would roll over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded."
I remember hearing a comment in a funhaus video years ago about how they would be ok with playing overwatch against fake players as long as it was fun, and at the time that really annoyed me, so I'm glad to hear someone go more in depth on the topic :D
This could actually be an interesting study; examining how people's interaction with a game/their ensuing experience is impacted when they know they're playing with a bot vs when they think they're playing with a real person
"Hook. Habit. Hobby." Pretty much how I fell about Warframe. Monotonous repetitive bling bling. The only thing it has going for it is that it's free entry.
i quited a few months ago and i feel that new content wont change that,i played almost 1.8k hours and i feel wf gave me all it could.
I played it for a bit, because it looked interesting. I stopped when I hit the grind-wall.
if at least they changed some of the dialogues for each mission. You do 5 different survival missions in each world, and they only have around 2-3 sound files for the operator. In 1 hour gameplay you already hear her say the same thing around 20 times at least. Sure the maps are kind of randomly generated. But turning off the audio of the game seems to improve the experience more than hinder it.
Uh...no? Hook habit hobby refers to how to get people to repeatedly pay. The “Hook” is usually in reference to an icebreaker purchase or dumping resources with purely superficial value into the player’s lap. The only thing close to an icebreaker purchase is a couple of PlayStation exclusive platinum bundles, and even those are treated like renown packs, periodically getting successors that are equally good deals as opposed to “one time only!” BS bundles *designed* to be icebreakers.
Jim has explained before all this about what Hook, Habit, Hobby means in depth, so unless you only just started watching Jinquisition, maybe start actually paying attention.
On a related note, complaining about warframe having a grind is equivalent to complaining about the same aspect of Borderlands, Diablo, POE, Monster Hunter, and other games that are specifically about grinding. I think you just don’t like looters.
Yeah, my brain can only take so much repetition. Especially when I get to the point where I'm not even mid game and I can already look forward and realise the game will be the exact same rinse and repeat experience. I was angry with myself.
To be fair, the Game of Thrones' writers considered the show disposable two seasons before the fans
This hurts me deep
"Deceptive con"
I see what you did there, Jim :)
i dont get it
@@Ibakecookiess are AUTOmated BOTS a DECEPTIve CON
As Rise Against once said: "all we are is entertainment caught up in our own derangement, tell us what to say and what to do"
That couldn't be more true these days.
I love that song, and just rise against in general.
@@opi_is_me1576 Me too, great band with amazing lyrics
More than any other band, I really want to see Rise Against live.
Callous Nightcore which song?
@@raikuFA Entertainment. It's from their fifth album, appeal to reason.
Anonymous Bots is my favorite Renaissance painter of apocalyptic scenes.
This comment deserves a little more kudos. Good game.
How do we forget thanking god for you Jim when it’s your most iconic catch phase.
And that's _proper_ iconic, not "ubisoft" iconic
That end was a bummer Mr. Sterling. The look in your eyes... Thank God for You.
Well, here for the engagement. Nah, seriously, good stuff Jim.
"Engagement" Another word that has been ruined by misuse. What was it Yahtzee once suggested about a verbal equivalent of social services that take words away if their being misused? Yeah I think we need that.
I remember how excited I felt when I killed the Kirk, Knight of Thorns invader in the Depths of Dark Souls. It wasn't until later that I realized he was an NPC, and I didn't feel as proud of myself for it.
I would npc invasions are hard at times remember that guy with the bleeding katana in bloodborne
I feel great cause I still get humanity from him
I felt alright about it until I watched Prepare to Cry by Vaati Q.Q
Chains of Love was playing at the supermarket the other day and I thought of you Jimbo ❤
When you realize that those "first" comments actually help people...
"They lack important survival traits like fear". Try throwing a grenade into a group of three Replica soldiers in F.E.A.R. (ha), and see how quickly those who haven't instantly died escape through windows and doors if level geometry allows it. Then again, it was mostly a single-player game.
Man, did anyone ever make a shooter with significantly better AI than that? I used to love digging into a position just to watch how the enemies would attempt to flank me.
F.E.A.R's AI is the best I have seen in videogames... Why is it the best I have seen if we got all this great tech now?
Kinda liked being able to throw a grenade into a group of enemies and take out like 10 of them TBH. But I guess the real challenge for me was trying to best my score count, pretty rare I would loose against bots.
@@cybermark4732 I don't think "AI" secret sauce gets published and spread around like 3d graphics pipelines did. They also can be heavily tied into how your game systems and levels tie together, so not as transportable. Think of a RTS and 3d Shooter, the bot code for one is not going to help much at all with the other.
Fighting games, at least in the past, also had good AI. But I haven't played one since I was a kid so that may play into it.
frfr, Do Automated Bots dream of Deceptive Cons?
No, but Darksydephil does. All the while snorting and oinking at how much money he makes. 😴🐷💰
@@Lobsterwithinternet With all his money you'd think he would be able look like he bathes Ever! Although he probably looks cleaner than whatever denizens from beneath a bridge watch him regularly.