I visited Berlin last week and was impressed by every bike under the sun being used, from old racing bike classics of the 60s and 70s to new exotic titanium lifestyle models. ultimately, as long as bikes can brake safely, anything goes.
As a PhD engineer and vehicle dynamics consultant, it is obvious from fundamental statics considerations that any brake that can lock the wheel is powerful enough. Once the wheel is locked, the tire/road coefficient of friction is what limits deceleration rate and acts as the limiting mechanical fuse. If your rim or disc brakes were 100,000 times more powerful than they actually are, but the ones you have can lock the wheel, that extra 100,000 times in braking power is completely irrelevant. The carbon rim business is a consideration, but there are aluminum rims that are almost as light as carbon rims (some are even LIGHTER than most carbon rims), so moment of inertia isn't a factor. As for the aerodynamic advantages of some carbon rims, you can find that in a wind tunnel but unless you are a Tour de France rider, you probably won't notice much difference, except of course in a crosswind, where they're a big pain! But other things ARE factors in choosing a rim vs. disc brake: cost, adjustability of the brakes, serviceability, etc. Brake "feel" is subjective and an individual thing, so there are no engineering issues on that point at all. Yes discs are better in wet weather and in dissipating heat during long descents, and of course there is the wow factor and show-off level at club rides. As I live in flatland Illinois, I'll stick with my Dura Ace rim brakes.
Being able to lock the wheel on rims doesn't mean they're equally as powerful. Modulation and control matters, which discs have vastly more of. There's a huge difference between a light squeeze to stop quickly versus clamping down with both hands with a deathgrip.
In 2019 I bought my first road bike (a caad12 actually!) so every other bike after that had also been disc equipped so I didnt know any different (also made the switch to electronic shifting pretty early on) Until this year when I picked up my first 'full mechanical' road bike, and i absolutely love it. To me, there is nothing more satisfying than the feeling a well set up fully mechanical bike. Braking on the carbon rims with black prince pads is plenty enough for a recreational rider, cloncking through the gears, I love it. No discs catching, or sceaching - no centring pads and truing rotors. Plus, for me personally the brake feel is way superior to that of a disc set up. Its hard to explain, without sounding like Jermy Clarkson or something - but I think that there is more of a 'at one with the bike' kind of thing going on with a full mechanical set up when compared to the latest and greatest in technology. All that said, my rim brake bike will only ever be used on the dry days, and to me thats where disc brakes have the major advantage. No matter that the weather, they will still perform. No worrying about inferior braking in the wet, or picking up road debris that is going to wear away your rims. Living in the UK my disc bike will no doubt get used more than its counter part - but there is definitely something about my rim braked bike, wether is a novelty factor or not I do not entirely know, but it definitely puts more of a smile on my face.
Disk brakes are a way for the bike industry to sell more bikes by attempting to convince us that bikes are now worth £12k because of modern technology. I ride a 2015 carbon Synapse with rim brakes which cost my about £1300 at the time. Bike industry are making fools out if people with no common sense
@@truvc pls explain to me why bikes from before 2019 where it was still common to see TdF using rim brake bikes still stopped fine? I have a rim brake bike. It stops fine. Never crashed because I couldn't stop. If you argued disc is better because it doesn't wear out the rim surface and slowly destroy the wheel I would absolutely agree with you totally. But braking? It only suddenly became an, 'oooh eeerrr bit sketchy riding tim brakes! Do they even stop?' when the marketing for disc brakes became the new 'essential thing'. Sure, if your bike has discs that's great, peace of mind, long lasting wheels. But if it has rim bakes that's fine, too. Simple to adjust, pads are cheap, light af, looks very tidy. Lots of pros too.
Simply a symbiotic relationship between consumers (us) who always want MORE and BETTER, and businesses (them) who are happy to have no choice but to give us what folks are asking for. We're perhaps not to blame for wanting more and businesses probably aren't to blame for trying to stay in business. Do and buy what you enjoy!
As a heavy man who rides in London every day I can say that disc brakes have kept me alive compared to rim brakes that almost got me killed so many times. There are obviously people that prefer rim brakes and that’s awesome but genuinely to me I would rather run to work than go back to rim brakes.
I wish the massive price discrepancy between the two break types was mentioned. It’s crazy just how much more bike you got on rim brake roadies compared to disc break roadies. For the same price you got a higher spec, much lighter and MUCH easier to service with rim break bikes. $6.5k AUD only gets you a Shimano 105 Trek 😂 and weight over 8kg
Synapse 2 RLE is 4.4k right now with Ultegra groupset. Canyon is even cheaper. Don’t look to Trek for the most affordable bikes, they’ve never been that. Not to mention now you’re getting way better braking performance for that small weight penalty
@@tomkunich9401 I mean, we're talking about a top level groupset here. From my understanding, Ultegra has never been affordable. If you want something cheap Shimano has plenty of offerings, which are really good by the way
I agree that the prices of bikes are getting out of hand recently but I also think you have to consider that a set of disc brake wheels is (usually) a one time purchase. Riding a lot in varying conditions, rim brake wheels are wearing out and need replacing, which makes the prospect of only replacing the disc brake rotors cheaper in the long haul. Back in the rim brake days, I'd never have considered buying a set of carbon wheels due to their poor braking performance and them wearing out (or even worse) when riding in the mountains. Now with a disc brake road bike, I get the benefit of aero carbon wheels and don't have to worry about wear and tear on the rim itself and for me personally I also got a lot more confident and faster on descends because I know I'll be able to stop when I need to.
As someone who hasn't tuned my feel on any braking system(I don't read brake feel much, and tend to be quite firm on braking pressure), and as someone who only has secondhand bikes, I have adapted my riding around rim brakes as that's what was available to me. I use alloy rims in all weathers, and carbon for best days or racing. I have also found the grip limit of tyres under braking, and the thought of having more braking power (as in locking wheels up even easier bringing a greater risk of crashing) is scary. I know that disc brakes give the opportunity for wider tyres which offer more grip to offset that but for a lightweight rider 32mm tyres is overkill for most of the roads I ride. One of my bikes is also a fixed gear, and I am not confident running a single brake. Even if they did make disc SS bikes I change my gearing a few times a year depending on purpose. I couldn't imagine the hassle of repositioning a disc brake caliper on the rear. Repositioning rim brake pads is easy (probably just because I am used to it).
The rim brakes on my Dura Ace 7100 group are great with aluminum wheels. I have no big issues at all, but the Campy disc brakes on my Super Record EPS with carbon wheels are superior in every way. Both work, but my disc setup is better with carbon and in the rain.
@@5891jonathan I have no qualms about discs being superior, I have used hydraulic discs off-road. But my point is my skills and judgement are far to inferior for discs when on road. Off-road, I use 2 piston calipers with as small a disc rotor as possible because if I went with anything else I would lose control under braking as I am far too aggressive on the levers, and don't like the comparative lack of resistance at the biting point on that system. I have my brakes set up where the free lever throw is so short they bite almost instantly.
Depends on your wheelset. I have 3 sets of Reynolds tubs, the only recommended pads are their ($$) cryo blue power pads. I'm reluctant to try any other pads with them.
I think it depends on the brand of carbon wheels. I had some Reynolds carbon wheels that were so-so with Swiss Stop carbon pads in dry weather, and a nightmare in wet weather.
I have just gone over to disc on my new road bike, and it may be an unpopular option but in the dry, I have not found them any better than my Wilier with rim brakes on carbon wheels. where discs come into their own it's in the wet, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But with most things in the bike industry, the customer has no choice but to go with what the manufacturer decides for them, carbon frames,press-fit BB, disc brakes and I am sure next will be 1 by setups. And most of it will come down to manufacturing costs.
Rim brakes on alloy rims work pretty good. Rim brakes on alloy rims have two major advantages, namely ease of maintenance and competitive weight of wheels. Also, on alloy rims, rim brakes don't perform all that worse I find. However, I think if I was racing I would definitely get a new bike with disc brakes as they are so much better on carbon rims.
That's not so easy to say. The mining and production of aluminum is extremely harmful to the environment!!! On descents and in high heat, even aluminum can quickly become soft. Especially cyclists with a lot of luggage will know that. This doesn't happen so easily with today's disc brakes, although the quality has to be right. Rims, whether aluminum or carbon, last significantly longer with disc brakes, which also justifies the continued use of aluminum rims.
@@jamesbont7052 Carbon rims are waaaaay worse for the environment than aluminum, and aluminum can be recicled, in the bike shop I work we get alu rims that have been damaged, and after getting some of them, we sell the aluminum by weight for friday night expenses. Alu rims are easier to maintain, cheaper to replace and better for the environment than carbon rims. Full metal bikes all the way.
In my use I'd be very frustrated with discs. I almost always put my bikes in a car and drive to start riding. I spend winter months in the SW USA deserts, riding and camping where the nearest shops are hours away, so I do all my own maintenance. When tubulars got less popular I bought a few sets of carbon wheels. I finally wore one Reynolds to the kevlar after almost 10 years and average 2 times up and down Montezuma Grade, an 8% grade in 8 miles, plus all other climbs I can find. I ride tubulars because I descend at speed and having a blowout on a cliffside corner with a clincher or tubeless is potentially fatal if the tire comes off, which those often do. So putting a disc bike in a small hatchback, taking through axles out, and dealing with concealed hydraulics just is too many complications. I do rarely ride in rain and I have some alloy wheels for those possible rides. I'm sorry to see the industry price us out with proprietary everything bikes that have few brand or even model year parts that interchange. I'm sorry to see their marketing has sold a lot of "improvements" that are OK and significant only if you ride team bikes and have following mechanical staff. Appropriate for pros, maybe..but I recall a fairly recent top pro choosing and winning with old tech.. And, for my $18k I guess I'd rather have a new Ducati 😊
I think the biggest disadvantage is when you have carbon wheels. The heat rim breaks generate on aluminum in a descend doesn’t damage the wheel. Carbon wheels are different; they are susceptible to heat and can delaminate with excessive heat. In those cases the disc break is a much better option. But for aluminum wheels I see no need for discs
In theory that's true, but unfortunately the reliability and temperature resistance of the disc rotors is such that they can easily warp on long mountain descents
@@michaelclements4664 True! Not the best idea if one has to spend quite a home budget on this. Though I have nothing against rm based carbon wheels (just use dedicated brake pads), let's not forget they were invented to do races, but rather not race "to the supermarket". As such, they should last quite long. A decade? Possibly more... People just get reach with time and can afford more. Carbon technology also got broader use in road bikes for 'common people'. Still, they/we sometimes buy things we can't sustain later on and get pissed about things, they simply wear, don't last forever. Also not every biker has a knowledge or passion to quit other stuff just to build wheels from scratch. I do, but yes, I stick to the aluminium rims as well.
I'm on an 2007 Look 585 frame, DA-7900 mechanical and rim brakes. Never tried disk brakes but never had any bad experience or under-performance issues with rim brakes. Recently purchased ZIPP 303 Firecrest carbon wheels but haven't noticed any braking issues or reduced performance. However, I never ride in wet weather so never experienced rim brakes with carbon wheels. I also don't ride on long descents that require sustained braking, so no over-heating issues either. So for me and the riding I do, rim brakes are fine.
I have a disc and a rim brake road bike , the discs are awsome not going to lie , but fitting ee brakes with Swiss stop black prince pads to my rim brake bike was the best thing i ever did , the braking is insane , almost on par with the discs in the dry , rim brake bikes do look better in my opinion also , love the classic road bike look 👌
6:20 I completely agree, everyone should choose what works for them, I rode my TRC Pro 1 with rim brakes/Reynolds 62mm wheels and it was not a good experience. Although, I loved how the bike looked and rode. If i got caught in the rain, the only result of pressing brake leavers was a swooshing sound and cash register going off in my mind as I sanded the brake surface down. Hardly any stopping power. Being a 1.96m/80kg rider, the rear Reynolds wheel didn't make it to down to Sault from Mt. Ventoux without warping (and I do know how to break properly). So, for me... disc brakes, please! Thanks for another great vid, Dave!
Out of interest: What do you mean with "I know how to break properly)? The sole purpose of the (safety feature!) breaks is .... breaking. Always. I will not ever touch a rim break in my life again after a sales person told me the following. I was interrested i a Magura Hydrolic Disk break out of curiosity. He said that after a long descend you should pause breaking for a while for the breaks to cool or it may fail. Let me reiterate here: The break has to break. Always. Even if the disc is glowing. I really do not understand anyone prefering rim breaks and risking their life in a case of failure.
@@SirSmackalot5 I believe it might be worth David considering this topic for his channel. Every braking system can fail, especially when pushed to its limits, due to factors like rider weight, materials, speed, and application time. These factors influence heat buildup and can degrade brake performance. However, this can be mitigated with the right braking technique. To answer your question: I use an on-off braking method to minimize the duration brake pads touch the rim, reducing heat. This technique efficiently slows the bike and extends the wheel set's life. I apply lighter pressure to the rear brake and more forceful pressure to the front brake simultaneously. The front brake is more potent and cools faster due to better airflow. Still, my rear wheel (Reynolds Strike 62) failed on the descent to Sault. My comment was not related to riding in the wet on carbon/rim combination, but I found in those conditions better not to ride. There was hardly any decelartion in the first 4-5 seconds of initiating braking on Reynolds with blue pads.
Everything on bike can break, hating on rim brakes just because sales person once told you something is definetly kinda dumb. And bike industry is pushing far more dangerous stuff than rim brakes.
I always risk my life with dura ace on my sl4 s works tarmac with alloy fulcrum racing zero wheels, 181 cm..90 kg athletic build, never had any issue with stopping power or other similar things, riding in Alps( Austria, Italy, Slovenia), big mountain in Croatia and I will always trust rim brakes shimano dura ace with Swiss stop pads ..
Last year I got back into cycling (primarily for exercise) after several decades of my old 1974 Dawes gathering dust in the basement. I restored and updated that old steel randonneuring bike with some modern tech but I kept the rim brakes from necessity (the 1970's era steel fork wouldn't be safe with disc) and curmudgeonly preference. I also utterly resisted the disc brake notion thinking that they looked ugly and the idea sounded just dumb to me. When I researched to buy a brand new bike for an improved ride I continued avoiding anything with disc brakes. But as I zeroed in on the final configuration that was going to satisfy me I came to realize that disc was inevitable, dammit. I wanted 40-45mm tires and rim brakes just weren't an option there. So I now have over half a year of riding with a new bike fitted with hydraulic disc brakes (SRAM Rival) and 40mm tires versus many years (mostly in my youth) riding rim brakes and I can safely say that I have been completely won over by the disc brakes; no question. Even though maintaining rim brakes is a breeze compared to bleeding and adjusting hydraulic disc brakes, the discs are astoundingly better performing and clearly much safer for me. I have avoided a few close calls on shared pathways and that alone made it abundantly clear that disc is the right choice for me, a dyed-in-the-wool, "steel is real", kind of old fart.
@@neil4701 to be sure, I replaced the 1974 rim brakes during the upgrade process. What I have now is: alloy 650b Bucklos MTB wheelset; Dia-Compe MX1000 sidepull BMX calipers; Kool Stop Supra 2 pads, Salmon. So, while this isn't anything like DuraAce, it actually works pretty good, even when wet. I needed the 650b wheels to get 35mm gravel tires to fit in the frame, and the long reach BMX calipers to reach the rims. I installed a Sensah Empire groupset and the resulting bike rides extremely well. Even shed a few pounds off it. 🙂
@@BruceWalkerPhotography You'd still find a *massive* difference with a more modern rim brake road bike. Those long reach calipers will be very flexy and spongy compared with something like modern Ultegra road rim brakes, partially due to the long reach and partially to the quality. Just saying.. ;-)
I ride a 2016 carbon road bike with rim brakes, aluminum wheels, mechanichal shifting, external cable routing, threaded bottom bracket cups. It cost me less than 1500 euros, weighs less than 7 kg with pedals and cages, rides fine, stops fine, maintenance is low, easy and cheap. You are free to spend big bucks on a modern heavy disc brake road bike with integrated proprietary headset, internal cable routing, pressfit bottome bracket and all the other new gimmicks...
I wouldn't expect anyone to change back to rim brakes from disc. My road bike is Colombus Spirit with Ultegra R8000 group and rim brakes with Hunt carbon wheels. Weighs around 8kg. The brakes work fine. They're not as good as discs in the wet, fair enough, but they are perfectly ok. I ride down very steep hills in Wales in the wet. I do run tubular tyres and tubular carbon rims are way more durable and secure than clincher ones. I wouldn’t change my set up and am unlikely to change road bike any time soon. If I did, who knows? I've got a disc emtb with 4 piston callipers. Really appreciate those on that. And an acoustic mtb with hydraulic discs - ditto. Horses for courses I guess.
It all depends on the type of riding you do. And how much money you want to spend. And of course there is a choice between mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes
I'm a really heavy-set rider (6.4 @ 116kg), and while I believe that I could profit from disc-breaks, all my bikes are based on rim-breaks - all being at least Ultegra or above, and all pads are Swissstop (against alu-rims). Can't really complain about breaking power in those set-ups, not even on descents, or in wet conditions. Would discs break better/harder/smoother? Maybe, but as of yet: in ~10000km per year there was not a single incident that had me in danger because of lack of breaking power of rim-breaks. Nevertheless: with the advent of a new frame I will go disc-break, and I'm confident that those won't disappoint me neither. TLDR: I don't really get the ongoing holy war between the disc- and rim-disciples.
Rim brakes get the job done for where I ride and the way I ride. Don't need or want the extra weight, noise, complexity and maintenance headaches of disc brakes.
Good vid! I happily ride rim brakes on my Cervelo R3 with Roval rapid carbon wheels. I am a weekend warrior and I live in Houston Texas pretty flat. No worries on doing mountains just Hills in the Hill country. My Ultegra rim brakes work perfectly and I enjoy my whole bike setup!
I ride in a dry So Cal climate conditions and mainly on flats so I see no need to replace my rim brake bikes. Actually, due to the movement towards disc brakes is rim brake lovers are scooping up incredibly deals on top quality pre-owned bikes.
Carbon rims with a grooved brake track surface works as good as aluminium in the wet. Its not gonna stop as quickly as a disc brake but the trade off is no rubbing.
I will NEVER buy a disc brake bike. It has nothing to do with consumer choice-- the manufacutrers decided that they coudl triple the prices by forcing everyone onto to disk.
For stopping a bike quickly repeatedly and predictably in all weather conditions, they are simply a better braking system. But for many use cases (dry weather, low speed, flat terrain, lightweight rider etc) rim brakes are perfect for the job.
@@Mububban23 Yes. Road discs are heavy, expensive (contemporary bikes cost x3 what they should), not aero, they squeek and rub and can be difficult to maintain. Worse of all, they can lock up and cause potentially fatal crashes. I don't need them for my cycling practice. I descended the Mont Ventoux with no problems on rim brakes. And I don't believe this myth of bake track wear-down if you clean your rims and use carbon-specific brake pads.
As someone who has actually had 2 wheel-sets wear down to destruction from extensive use by calliper brakes I think it’s really important to remind people that calliper brakes do indeed destroy wheels eventually and sometimes that is an explosive event. I’m not saying it’s common but it is a reality and another factor if you’re the type that rides their bike a lot.
@@gregmorrison7320 so you grab the brake hard. lock up the wheel and the wheel exploded? or did you destroyed the wheel from crashing due to the lock up?
@@asiantrick24 No brake was used, the rims were worn (older rims had no wear indicators) and one was in a race, the rear rim kind of broke and peeled in two at the braking track, I wouldn't call it an explosion, but it locked the wheel, I didn't crash and got another wheel from a sag wagon to continue the race. The other time was about 50km into a fast 100km group ride, going faster than the time in the race, same thing, wheel broke and peeled at the brake track, wheel locked up, gave everyone a fright but no crash, it was a short distance to a small down and I actually found some strapping and a rag to wrap around the tube and tire to hold it on the rim and rode home on another tube at reduced pressure, it was uncomfortable as hell every revolution going bump bump bump but no cell phones back then and it got me home. In later years I've thrown rims away as they started to come out with wear indicators, had one set that lasted 2 1/2-3 years max doing about 14,000kms a year.
Generally speaking, even without rim wear indicators, letting them get that far is down to lack of inspection and maintenance. If my rims look distinctly concave I will replace them.
@@matt_acton-varian Yep, definitely pushed things too far and were on the to do list lol. Much easier now a days with wear indicators, plus I have disc brakes for those all weather rides.
The great schism came when carbon rims with rim brakes occurred .. there we're all kinds of brakes pads introduced to improve braking in the wet, but to be honest, they were very ordinary compared to alloy rims. There were attempts to bond a alloy rim onto a carbon rim with mixed results, and t I considered them a bodge. in saying that, early discs, like Magura, had virtually no modulation (it seemed) and racing mountain bikes with them one had to be very ginger using them, whereas V brakes were vastly superior, to me... I don't race road or mountain anymore, and personally don't feel the need for discs with the type of riding I do now, my Campag Chorus do everything I require, But if I upgrade my bike, which I am thinking of, finding new frames with mechanical shifting and rim brakes are very few and far between, but I don't feel I should be forced in to that disc/electronic scenario ...
I had built up my new road bike using a new chinese frame, 105 groupset, pedals and my used wheels, tires, handle bars and some other used bits. This cost me $1500. Canadian. I had thought about building a disk brake bike with simular spec. After pricing out new rims, tires, groupset and the frame. The cost balooned up to $5000.00. Needless to say I couldn't justify building or buying a bike for that much. The new 105 brakes are very good, maybe not the best, but good enough.
I've always loved rim brakes, Cannondale too. But as a 95 kg rider who lives in a hilly town, I always felt uncomfortable. I just had to switch to discs. Disc brakes have been amazing, no rubbing or whatnot.
I can understand how people living in flat areas didn't feel the need for discs but where I live, the discs have been great. I often descend twisty double digit descents and having the disc brakes have been hugely helpful. I also had an old rim brake tarmac SL4 that despite having the bike shop bring the levers in closer for my shorter hands, I still had issues reaching them with a solid grip. Pair that with bumpy roads and it would just add to the lack of enjoyment when descending. I have a rim brake TT bike which works well enough since its on the flats but I'll never go back to rim for my road bikes.
Same. My son has a bike with rim brakes, and the first time I went down a double-digit gradient on that thing I was quite sure that disc brakes are the only answer for me. Far more yet when the roads are wet.
Commuting in college last winter made me realize how terrible rim brakes were. Sure, they worked, but every time it rained I was stuck with poor brake performance. I’d have loved the security of hydraulic discs then. That’s not even going into the better modulation they offer, either.
Agreed. I did the Fred Whitton a few years back on a rim brake Tarmac, where you are either on the brakes as soon as you go over the top of Honister, Hardknott ( yes, I walked), Wrynose etc, or you are the person lying by the stone bridge with a paramedic tending to you, and my hands were killing me by the end of those descents, and I have fairly large hands. But in normal, dry conditions, I think Ultegra rim brake calipers with swiss block pads are great and with less tendency to squeal or ting, ting.
Just by happenstance I found myself in the recent situation whereby I had to dust down my 2015 Colnago C60 with Campag EPS V1, Enve wheels and rim brakes. I have to admit I found it stunning to ride and in comparison, to my later model disc brake, electronic gear etc. bikes , it was every bit as good and as fast. I've found from my recent experience the difference between a top frame rim brake and disc brake bike is not that profound. I suspect though because my Colnago C60 is rim brake it is likely to be a half to a third the price of a disc brake bike. In the wash up to my recent experience I don't think disc brakes are must or a game change. Rather, rim braking bikes still have a lot to offer and in many respects just as good.
Rim brakes were ok for me but since switching to discs I've been able to get rid of the winter bike and winter wheelsets. Just one bike now, with one wheelset that gets used all year round, wet or dry with everything from commuting to racing. Contrary to what some people think, it's a much simpler life with discs.
Having ridden both Dogma Fs I feel like a few points aren't being touched upon enough: you quote consistency with which I suspect you mean braking consistency *between weather conditions. But this IMO is a luxury problem: the performance of rim brakes in the high end wheels is pretty much .1 to .2 seconds from dry to wet, and precisely this is fully consistent. I think pushing the limits during wet weather is already a questionable choice unless you're racing, but even then tyre traction is greatly more important than braking performance so again the point seems moot. To me the biggest limiting factor are the tyres and the limitation of traction. This part is independent of the mode of braking. To me then, the pros of rim brakes: - Ride feel due to carbon layup - Adjustability, as you also quoted - Wheel changes - Weight - Ceiling of aero performance is higher, for example with the TriRig brakes + custom 3d printer mounting components Disadvantages: - Mode of braking for full carbon wheels requires high end rims, but then wearing away high end rims is not a great feeling - Riding fast on the descents means running latex inner tubes is not recommended, since rim will inevitably heat up during braking The advantages of disc: - Same performance between wet and dry - Choice of wheels (industry induced) - Running latex inner tubes or tubolito is worry-free Note that brake squeal is omitted from the disc disadvantages because there exist treatments and spoke choices that will eliminate the need for discs to be sterile in use.
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Rim brakes with aluminum tacked carbon rims, like the Campagnolo Bullet worked well. However they can’t match the weight of a carbon only rim. Caliper brakes, as on touring and cross bikes, allowed for more tire clearance than with rim brakes on road racing bikes. Now that larger tires with wider rims are being used to reduce rolling resistance, most rim brakes just don’t have the clearance. Also, with the advent of the adventure/ do-it-all bike, one has the option of using different wheels 700 or 650 to increase tire width for more off road alternatives. I ride only rim, caliper on my ‘90’s MTB, but if I was to go to bike packing/touring or gravel, and especially with a new XC MTB, disc is the only way to go! Has so many advantages and options in these applications.
I love my rim-braked bikes, the only mistake I ever made was buying a set of full carbon clinchers... they look the part but braking is worse on the dry and absent in the wet. So I also do love my disc braked 'winter' bikes. For climbing I would always opt for rim brakes. Light disc equipped bikes are incredibly expensive and I've done fast descents from mountains in the wet with rimbrakes on aluminium clinchers and that went fine. However: if I had to buy a new bike right now I would opt for a disc braked bike. The reason is mention by you David: availability. Getting good quality wheels and parts for rim braked bikes is getting harder and harder.
Thanks, David, for sharing your experiences and with your Cannondale test mule, how about an aluminum front rim and something carbon in back, if you have to ride some carbon. That might be a good combo for a retro bike and that Cannondale sure does look good, especially at the price these days.
I live in the french alps. I ride custom steel rim brake bike with carbon wheels. I'm not super light (75kg) nor very powerful. I hit the brakes nearing 70km/h on the descents (I love my life!). Occasionally I got catch up by the rain or storm. The bike is fantastic and I'll swap it for the new one when the frame fails (and even that can be easily repaired as I got 3 frame builders at hand). I also have a steel gravel bike with disc brakes. Different bikes for different type of use.
With respect to you using the carbon wheels with that model of calliper. Those are designed for modulation with a narrow rim leading to the sensation you experience. It’s harder to fine a wider set of carbon rim brake wheels that those. Swap out the callipers it’s night and day.
The things I don't like about discs are hydraulics being harder to set up (for me at least), and they seem harder to keep quiet. My next bike will no doubt have them though.
I do have a carbon wheel disc brake bike. But the few times I got caught in a pouring rain it was pretty awful. If it's dry, they're perfectly adequate (and light and easy to work on). But their performance is just not as good as my bike with disc brakes. Shimano Ultegra in both cases. I did find Reynolds Cryo Blue Power pads helped a lot on rim brakes. But $$.
Hi, I live in Bala and I have descended Bwlch y Groes on aluminium and carbon rim brakes. I think there are no issues with the latest carbon rim wheels from Hunt and Scribe and I think people need to remember that the first time a disk bike won the TDF was 2022.
My MTB has disk brakes, started with rim brakes in 1988. Dirt and wet conditions are a bad combination, the aluminum rims wear out quickly. When it comes to my racing bike, I still ride the same racing bike since 1992 (Restomod F. Moser) and I don't see any point in swapping. I'm missing the aesthetic component of the whole discussion. For me, a beautiful classic steel frame with rim brakes is a reason to enjoy getting on a racing bike and riding...
My rim brake on my Campagnolo Boro WTO is very good, however in the wet the braking performance isn’t great. I’ll be purchasing my first disc brake bike soon. Finger’s crossed.
Isn’t it horses for courses? My single speed commuter is perfect with rim brakes. My light weigh SuperSix Evo has rim brake/carbon wheel combo but would never ride it in the wet. My Synapse has discs and perfect for those weekend battles and sportives in all weather. If I had only one bike..has to be discs though.
My two pairs of carbon rim brake wheels both have aluminium brake tracks so i get the good braking and the lightness/looks of the carbon rims. I guess these days it will be hard to find those anymore
I have a bike with 105 rim brakes but im not a coper - disc brakes are superior to rim brakes. Levers are easier to press and less tiring, there is no worry about cable routing bends, there is less to worry about contaminants picked up from road smearing on the rim and decreasing brake performance in rainy weather, the mainteneance is actually a dead simple since most of the bikes won't even need a change of braking fluid if you ride on flat terrain, so that leaves you with braking pads[super simple], replacing braking rotor[again, very simple] and maybe replacing fluid every 5 years or so. I find that you can modulate both types of brakes similarily, disc brakes are just way more responsive and needs some learning to not ham fist them. With modern designs, disc brakes can be as aero as rim brakes, the only small downside is still the weight, but it is very close if you use highest tier with carbon-titanium rotors.
For carbon fiber rim brake wheel , you need to buy wheel that add special brake surface that can withstand the heat up to 320 celcius. It will brake almost as good as aluminium rim brake
I'm in a similar situation atm, commuting on my older rim brake bike after spending the past two years on discs. Makes a world of difference, dry or wet conditions, to the point that I HAVE to improve the rim brake system to keep using it. Right now they're too unresponsive to have any modulation and can hardly lock my rear wheel. I don't feel safe with traffic around me, especially in the wet and/or on slight declines. So now I'm asking myself, how are rim brakes "simpler", as most people argue. They're dependent on so many things: fresh cables/housings, proper cable routing, buying some very special high-end pads (not cheaper!), toeing them in, cleaning them and the brake track regularly, cleaning and lubing the brake calipers (not easier!)... Disc brakes are fit and forget. Maybe bleed once or twice per year. Swapping pads is cheap and easy. No further adjustments. With rim brakes, I have to readjust every time I pop the wheel on or off, because the tyre won't fit between the pads (with the caliper open), also performance suffers if my rim goes out of true, so I have to keep that in check as well. And why? To save a few grams and be a good old traditionalist? Not to mention that a hydraulic brake won't ever fail completely the way a snapped cable would. I've had a shifter cable snap once, wouldn't want that on my brake line. Luckily, can't happen with hydro.
Been using rim brakes since the early 70's, with pretty much no problems at all but then of course I was living in Sunny California, 40 plus years on I'm still able to service my CAMPAGNOLO SR brake calipers because spares can still be found. My biggest problem with bike gear, one summer, freewheels were exploding on me, I'd hear a cracking noise then ding! ding! ding! that was the ball bearings hitting the spokes, then BANG! Everything all went to hell! My boss with a bicycle distributor, said what in the hell are you doing riding up walls, I said no, I was launching across an intersection when the green light was about to go red, I broke 3 freewheels that summer. My bicycle was with a steel track frame that was converted to road, it was a screamer.
disc brakes and wide carbon rims coupled with wide low pressure tires are the best things that happened to road bikes in the last decades. seriously rim brakes work, are cheap and reliable, but everytime i could only get a 25mm tire rimbrake bike in the holidays, even when its was a line topping model i felt like i was back in the stoneage. and when you got a disc brake bike, the maintenance was often very very sloppy to the point i returned it and demanded my money back. presumably the old grumpy bike mechanics had not catched up to the new technology. i can easily see how this influenced many people that maybe first experienced disc brakes on rental bikes. but it seems to have gotten better now. this year i had multiple disc brake bikes on majorca and tenerife and everything was fine. stark contrast to 2020 and 2021.
Depends on what ppl want... I like smashing uphill KOMs and its just impossible with disc brakes cuz I cannot build diac brake bike inder 7,5 kg without spending 10k, while my rim brake bike is 6,7 kg and still breaks good (not as good as discs)...
I am on the fence about this. I just bought a bike this spring with disc brakes. They work pretty well, and I can’t complain. But I didn’t pay for them. I bought a like new but second bike and got a good deal. But if I’d bought a brand new bike, I wouldn’t have wanted to pay $100 extra for disc brakes. All my rim brake bikes in the past worked just fine. Bike manufacturers always need to have something new to sell us. Back in the early 70’s cheap bikes had side pull brakes, and better bikes had center pull brakes. But then in the mid-70’s they decided side pulls were better, so the high end rim brakes were side pulls. 🤷♂️ Way back then my first road bike had Weinmann 999 center pulls, and my second one had Dia-Compe center pulls, which were clones of the Weinmanns. Both worked really well and needed very little attention. I never wanted or needed anything better.
The biggest disadvantage is when you broke a spoke and need to loose the brake cable so no-brake. Happens to me 3 times, had to call someone to pick me up in the middle of the route. Then you have less power brake and with rain is almost none. Disk brakes when you try them is another level
I love my rim brake bike. Works very well on alu wheels. Very nice that there is little fuss with them. Easy to maintain and fix. Disc brakes on my gravel bike are a nightmare in comparison. But for gravel it does function very well of course.
I recently switched to disc brakes, and I must admit, they are finicky and somewhat difficult to manage as compared to rim brakes. I experienced my first horrendous brake squeal event after the first cleaning, and it was a bit of a deal to get them to stop. What I learned to prevent / address it added about 15 minutes to my cleaning routine. I've had a disc actually rattle off the wheel (bad e-bike OEM assembly) and I've had several bent discs. Lastly, the disc pads and calipers are sensitive and require frequent work. Working them with my e-bike is a real chore. Overall, and unlike rim brakes, the disc ones seem to have a number of additional maintenance and pristine cleanliness issues. As I said, just started, so I could be wrong, but I like the reliability and ease of rim brakes. They've always worked for me, and I am not worried about massive braking power as I do not go crazy fast at all.
Just Ride Bikes, says it all. I have been riding my Cannondale CAAD3 road bike since I bought it in 1997. Now the bike is approaching 30 years. The bike and its SRAM brakes are still great after all these years. I wish I could say the same for myself.
If pros were given a choice they would ride rim brakes. Top end rim brakes apply the brakes faster, what do I mean by that. Disc brakes have a lot to of travel in the lever and pros historically rode with their breaks adjusted tightly which meant they could break almost instantly, which stopped you hitting the wheel in front. The rim breaks also created no screeching noise which historically puts riders on edge in the bunch. That’s said rim breaks are now disappearing fast and will soon be very unusual on a top end bike
When you think about it the rim brake is operating under the same prinables as a disk brake set up. The rim is the Disk and the the pads work in the same way by adding friction when they make contact with the rim the same as when the pads in a disk brake set up make contact with the disk.
I'm glad you made this video, well done! Many people still think disc brakes are a scheme pushed by bike brands to sell more expensive bikes, but that doesn't make any sense at all. The move to rim brakes has been very gradual, disc brake and rim brake bikes have been sold side by side for years and customers have made their choice already by rendering rim brake bikes unprofitable. Someone like Canyon can't spend a few million dollars to make the moulds just to sell 20 bikes. You can rest assured that bike companies have lots of other ways to make bikes more expensive that don't cost them millions in R&D.
"just to sell 20 bikes" - Canyon's rim brake bikes were selling like hot bread, there was a fine market for them. In case you didnt know it, not all regions of our planet get high precipitation like central/north EU does. "scheme pushed by bike brands to sell more expensive bikes" - Talking about Canyon, do u know how much prices increased in the name of "better braking performance"? Ultimate CF SL 7 was 1700EUR, now starting price is 2800EUR. "Canyon can't spend a few million dollars to make the moulds just to sell 20 bikes." - yes, requires rocket technology to support both type of frames. It must be a miracle that after all those years that they had both frames, they didnt go bankrupt!
I had actually no idea that disk brakes were so predominate with road bikes. I kind of have my own little riding world where I almost never have chats with other road bike riders, and rarely see them also. They aren't as popular where I live as other types of bikes. Good point about the more affordable or value bikes. Caliper rim breaks came standard on the State Bicycle model I bought this year, and since I had those on the old 10-speed I had when I was a teenager in the 1970s, it was a continuation and a reacquainting for me. The bike has been super and the brakes (with more planning ahead) have been super for me also. I can't see getting a set for a road bike unless they came standard on another bike. I have them on my Marine hybrid with it's 35C front and 38C rear tires so I'm understanding of the nature and the differences.
I've never used disc brakes yet. Nevertheless it is obvious to me they must be better. In order to stop my carbon wheeled bike at the bottom of a steep descent before a road crossing I have to squeezed my brakes with three fingers in a death grip. I've read about and seen videos of cyclists doing this easily using one finger with disc brakes. In addition disc brakes do not wear out the rims of carbon wheels. Therefore carbon wheels should last a lifetime if the bearings are regularly serviced making an investment in expensive high quality wheels easier to justify.
Yeah, I wouldn't touch carbon rims on a rim brake bike for that reason alone. Even if the braking wasn't awful compared to disc brakes. Disc brakes are just fantastic. I am a 80kg+ rider and being able to slow quickly from 80kph is pretty important on country roads. Being able to scrub speed easily and quickly is vital. Not having to worry about a rim that is out of true is quite nice. For most people that extra weight saving isn't worth the trade-off.
I prefer rim brake, my 105 brake works just fine in a good quality aluminium wheel I might try the disc in a few years when I change bike its really unfair how all new bikes are on disc though disc is more expensive and weight more, the option of rim brake has to be maintained
The rippled brake track on the zipp nsw‘s works like a treat. I’ll not ride them in the wet anyway to keep them longer alive. Keen to see how disc brakes will further evolve.
A well set up pair of rim brakes (especially direct mount type) can be really good but there is no doubt they are unreliable in the wet, are inconsistent, destroy wheels making them often financially unviable for rebuild, and also hamstring frame designers. Disc brakes just work; you fit them and then basically chuck new pads in from time to time, replace the odd rotor and thats about it. Needing to bleed them constantly isn't really a thing for the most part.
2014 scott solace 20 ultegra mechanical and rim brakes ! LOVE IT. That being said, if you gave me a new bike with di2 and disc brakes I'd weep with joy !
A good point is that rim brake in driy areas are perfectly suited to cover everything. So if you live in california like I do abosolutely no reason to change to disc. But finding a rim brake frame is very difficult now if you want to continue using them. Unfortunate
V brakes were awesome. Most road rim brakes are pretty good. My problem is Britians' weather. I had a half decent set of tektro road rim brakes. And one day on a gravel loaded descent in the dales, the mud started to pile up on my tires, in my brakes, and i had a very lucky crash at the bottom. It could easily have killed me as my bike clipped a rock, i went over the bars and passed through the centre of two large boulders which, given half a metre in either direction would have been a broken spine or skull. Thankfully i crashed healdlong into a fairly soft bush. Ive also had similar happen when snow piled up in brakes. They do work, but they are so easy to contaminate. My next bike had disc brakes. And given what and how i ride, i will never chance a repeat of that again.
The pros say that crashes are much more likely now that everyone is on discs, because braking is done later and then much more aggressively, with locked wheels etc
The old cantilever brakes on the mountain bikes of yesteryear, were completely capable of launching you OTB when you jammed em hard. I know that for a fact. They never failed to stop me regardless of my situation.
I've been riding at least as long as our David. And I could not agree more; (hydraulic) disc brakes are simply superior as an all weather/all condition braking solution. That said; I have caliper rim brake bikes. one is the very same CAAD12 David has (in a 63cm size) and the other; a Titanium 'Habanero' frame. I only ride them on the driest of days and only when I'm feeling particularly "Klassiker". Otherwise; it's my tried and true fleet of Cannondale bikes with disc 🙂 I actually love both but I also understand the limitations of caliper braking.
Great vid David. I was always AGAINST disc breaks back in 2015/2016 but NOW, I WOULD’NT go back to rim. DISC breaks ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR in ALL stopping conditions in ALL weather conditions. I’m a true “ DISCITARIAN” if there is a word😂😂😂🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️
I recommend looking at the juintech F1 or G series hybride mechanical disk brakes. Far more affordable, lighter, and with braking that is almost at the hydro level you can buy sram red mech levers for less than 300 pounds at 280g :D.
David: go and ride a rim brake bike with carbon wheels, ride at the same pace you do with disk brake bikes, descending or pulling in the grupetto; and after, come and tell me… My point: rim brakes with alloy wheels are one world ; rim brakes and carbon wheels are another
I think the case for the road disc brakes is made by the carbon wheels, you can't have high performance carbon wheels with good performance braking using a rim brake, also, the carbon wheels are not a small thing, 10-30W/pair advantage from wheels is huge
I love the Ultegra brakes on my 1998 Klein Quantum Race. That said, I would never switch to carbon wheels on that bike because I am sure the wear on the rim and braking quality will not be good. Will I switch to disc brakes eventually? At 63, I think the Klein is it and I don't see changing the fork or adapting the existing frame so That I could use discs. An equivalent, Ultegra equipped modern bike is 2-3 times the cost I paid for the Klein, which I can afford, but why? If it isn't broken, why fix it. That said, If I was in my 20's or early 30's, I would probably invest in the most modern technology.
I have 4 road bikes, all over 30 years old and sporting rim brakes. I love biking though don’t do as much as i’d like due to work schedule. I know the modern road bike is superior in all respects to the bikes i ride, but part of what i love about biking is the aesthetics of the classic road bike; i love seeing them and being on one. I find modern bikes paradoxically look really heavy despite being light, and disc brakes look so bulky and huge, all the more so when paired with these modern thick wheels. So i ride rim brakes, and never when it’s raining..
On my road bike I hate disk brakes. They get too hot on down hill, lock up if used to hard, for me rim brakes all the way. On a mountain bike where brakes are not taxed for long periods, disk brakes are ideal.
I have cane Creek ee brakes with Swiss Stop pads on Boyd composite rims. I love them and have never had any issues braking in any weather. I love disc brakes too but I travel with this bike so breaking it down to pack it without having to deal with the hydraulics is very nice. Next build I’ll likely go with Paul mech disc brakes for the same reason.
But braking with rim brakes and aluminium wheels in wet is just as good as dry. Voting with oir walet wasn't the case here the move came from the manufactures. How are the disc brakes performing in wet once you find out they've been contaminated, which on the the road happens more ofthen then when ridig on trails?
You were always wrong about rim brakes, and you were the guy who once said in your video that you didn't ride a bike you had because "it had rim brakes". Lol. Things one does to make content. Rim brakes were good enough to stop pro rides (as recently as Pogacar in 2021) during TDF. On mountain bikes, sure, discs are better but not everyone on a road bike is descending at 80-90km/hr. Even in rains, the rim brakes are perfectly good for anyone bar the ones who actually are pros, ex-pros or have pro-like ambitions.
@@Lenser cost alone can be a big factor indeed, maybe not for you, sure, not hating you on that, but cost is a huge factor. and again, discs are superior only if you live in a place where it rains a lot or often, and you ride pretty fast. I live in a very wet area but I ride easy. So, for me, rim brakes are all I ever need.
I ride fast and on mixed terrain, and on a metal braking surface even in the rain I can stop pretty quickly on a road bike using rim brakes. I can't speak for carbon wheels in the wet as I avoid using my carbon rim brake wheelset in the off season here in the UK. Honestly it feels like the entire debate is blown out of proportion to convince you that tried and tested technology once used commonly in the TdF is suddenly so incapable of stopping your bike that it's borderline dangerous. If you have a road bike with quality disc brakes it will stop fine. If you have a bike with quality rim brakes it will stop fine (apart from maybe less effective on carbon rims in the rain). The most important thing is making sure your pads are clean and in good condition and your brake system is properly set up. That's the true deciding factor as to whether you will have good braking or not.
@@hkp9257 doesn't mean they aren't also serviceable at home..just that rims are literally able to adjust using your hands and an Allen key in a few minutes. And it's incredibly simple. Discs can drive you nuts if they keep rubbing. If you have a hydraulic leak or need to bleed them you have to do it in a suitable area with a lot of fluid and syringes. It's much more technical, even if it's still doable by a layman.
If you have to be aware of what Rim and Disc brakes do and adjust your wheels based on your environment. If you live in flat areas you can use Carbon wheels for ever without wearing them down. If you live in mountains of course disc and carbon wheels make more sense. In mountain descents I would use aluminum wheels on a rim brake bike. My carbon wheels are over 3 years old, thousands of km in the flats of Ontario and the wheels look brand new. If you use tap braking ( rotating rapidly back to front braking so the carbon wheels do not get any damage) there will be no damage to your carbon wheels. I will stick with Rim brakes until there is no more rim brake frames. Rim brakes are brain dead easy to repair or replace and also very cheap which is why the industry switched to Disc frames ( money one the frames and brakes components).
I've said it before David, you should try and get a set of Hunt Aero Wide aluminum wheels for that bike, be nice to compare the difference on your circuit with those deep carbon wheels, you'll have better braking, a lighter weight, they'll look better, and I bet the difference in speed will be minute.
Disk brake courses a lot of problems. Most of my pats are force into disc brake bike and after awhile they all complained about the same one issue and it’s annoying as hell. You will know when you know.
I like rim brakes, my question is why people want to spend so much money in carbon rims when the weight is very similar to aluminum rims, disc hydraulic brakes are very heavy and they always need adjustment, contaminate etc etc
So after buying my v1r ( which I absolutely love ) I’m not even considering buying a disc frame as buying some new rims in a few years is a lot lot cheaper and to abandon my v1r is not an option. Regards winter riding I have a rim frame kitted with some rs80s c50 with ample braking force in the wet , it’s like this , we don’t have abs on any pushbike so if you brake too hard wet or dry you’re gonna lock up . Don’t get me wrong I have disc on my cx and they’re fantastic, my point about the road bike is that to just abandon a perfectly great bike to go to disc is a bit much and wasteful, I just imagine that if disc weren’t invented for the road nobody would give a toss really. Ps if I were to upgrade to the latest v4 I’d be looking at 7-8k 😮.
How much does it cost to service and change rotors? Can we all do it ourselves? Why would you ride in the rain? I race every weekend and I'll leave disc brakes to my mtb and gravel bike thanks.
I was anti disc brake mostly because I had a set of wheels and did my own maintenance. Moved to a new area, headed down a mountain after a climb, it started misting and I could barely slow down let alone stop on the carbon wheels. If you live in the mountains or wet areas I can't imagine being without at this point. I still have rim brake bikes and use them for crit racing or true cafe rides, but I'm too old to take a risk of not stopping. Side note, there's also the benefit of brake tracks not wearing out and having to replace wheels. Rotors are relatively cheap.
Several comments about poor rim brake performance in the wet, but that’s fine because they don’t ride in the wet. Where do these people live?! From a safety standpoint, I don’t understand how you can argue that it is fine for companies to continue to sell bikes that have significantly diminished braking performance when it starts raining! Should these bikes have disclaimers “for fair-weather cycling only”?
As David states in his video multiple times ...This isnt a debate on Rim vs Disc. Both set ups have different advantages/ disadvantages Simply chose which best suits your riding For me personally, I still prefer the performance, ease of maintenance, lighter weight and aesthetics of rim brake set up I also prefer the performance parameters of lighter , more nimble rim brake bikes All of my Road Bikes are top spec'd Campagnolo of the early 2000 to late 2000's that were the best of their generations There is a very strong market segment for these type of bikes as an " ULTIMATE ALTERNATIVE " to NEW Top line , spec'd bikes builds at a fraction of their orginal cost and WAY LESS EXPENSIVE then NEW
Rim breaks are not fade our only because of popularity of disk brakes, disk brakes also allow different frame shapes, bigger tire clearance, wheels that don't need to fearure a breaking surface, etc...
Rim brakes aluminim rims and tyres with inner tube's will do for me.
Agree, only with TPU inner like ridenow thou.
I visited Berlin last week and was impressed by every bike under the sun being used, from old racing bike classics of the 60s and 70s to new exotic titanium lifestyle models. ultimately, as long as bikes can brake safely, anything goes.
As a PhD engineer and vehicle dynamics consultant, it is obvious from fundamental statics considerations that any brake that can lock the wheel is powerful enough. Once the wheel is locked, the tire/road coefficient of friction is what limits deceleration rate and acts as the limiting mechanical fuse. If your rim or disc brakes were 100,000 times more powerful than they actually are, but the ones you have can lock the wheel, that extra 100,000 times in braking power is completely irrelevant. The carbon rim business is a consideration, but there are aluminum rims that are almost as light as carbon rims (some are even LIGHTER than most carbon rims), so moment of inertia isn't a factor. As for the aerodynamic advantages of some carbon rims, you can find that in a wind tunnel but unless you are a Tour de France rider, you probably won't notice much difference, except of course in a crosswind, where they're a big pain! But other things ARE factors in choosing a rim vs. disc brake: cost, adjustability of the brakes, serviceability, etc. Brake "feel" is subjective and an individual thing, so there are no engineering issues on that point at all. Yes discs are better in wet weather and in dissipating heat during long descents, and of course there is the wow factor and show-off level at club rides. As I live in flatland Illinois, I'll stick with my Dura Ace rim brakes.
Good lord do you always write this way? Write to EXPRESS, not IMPRESS.
@@robertandrews3055It’s really not that hard at all
Completely agree... I have 1.5kg roval slx 24 alloy wheels and Shimano 105 rim brakes. I changed to look stop dura 2 salmón pads they are great.
Being able to lock the wheel on rims doesn't mean they're equally as powerful. Modulation and control matters, which discs have vastly more of. There's a huge difference between a light squeeze to stop quickly versus clamping down with both hands with a deathgrip.
What you have there is lucid common sense.
In 2019 I bought my first road bike (a caad12 actually!) so every other bike after that had also been disc equipped so I didnt know any different (also made the switch to electronic shifting pretty early on)
Until this year when I picked up my first 'full mechanical' road bike, and i absolutely love it. To me, there is nothing more satisfying than the feeling a well set up fully mechanical bike. Braking on the carbon rims with black prince pads is plenty enough for a recreational rider, cloncking through the gears, I love it.
No discs catching, or sceaching - no centring pads and truing rotors. Plus, for me personally the brake feel is way superior to that of a disc set up.
Its hard to explain, without sounding like Jermy Clarkson or something - but I think that there is more of a 'at one with the bike' kind of thing going on with a full mechanical set up when compared to the latest and greatest in technology.
All that said, my rim brake bike will only ever be used on the dry days, and to me thats where disc brakes have the major advantage. No matter that the weather, they will still perform. No worrying about inferior braking in the wet, or picking up road debris that is going to wear away your rims. Living in the UK my disc bike will no doubt get used more than its counter part - but there is definitely something about my rim braked bike, wether is a novelty factor or not I do not entirely know, but it definitely puts more of a smile on my face.
Disk brakes are a way for the bike industry to sell more bikes by attempting to convince us that bikes are now worth £12k because of modern technology. I ride a 2015 carbon Synapse with rim brakes which cost my about £1300 at the time. Bike industry are making fools out if people with no common sense
Yeah you’re definitely smarter and everyone else is being fooled but not you.
@@truvc pls explain to me why bikes from before 2019 where it was still common to see TdF using rim brake bikes still stopped fine? I have a rim brake bike. It stops fine. Never crashed because I couldn't stop.
If you argued disc is better because it doesn't wear out the rim surface and slowly destroy the wheel I would absolutely agree with you totally. But braking? It only suddenly became an, 'oooh eeerrr bit sketchy riding tim brakes! Do they even stop?' when the marketing for disc brakes became the new 'essential thing'.
Sure, if your bike has discs that's great, peace of mind, long lasting wheels. But if it has rim bakes that's fine, too. Simple to adjust, pads are cheap, light af, looks very tidy. Lots of pros too.
Simply a symbiotic relationship between consumers (us) who always want MORE and BETTER, and businesses (them) who are happy to have no choice but to give us what folks are asking for. We're perhaps not to blame for wanting more and businesses probably aren't to blame for trying to stay in business. Do and buy what you enjoy!
What about choice? I buy what i want not what the cy cle industry may or may not want
As a heavy man who rides in London every day I can say that disc brakes have kept me alive compared to rim brakes that almost got me killed so many times. There are obviously people that prefer rim brakes and that’s awesome but genuinely to me I would rather run to work than go back to rim brakes.
I wish the massive price discrepancy between the two break types was mentioned.
It’s crazy just how much more bike you got on rim brake roadies compared to disc break roadies. For the same price you got a higher spec, much lighter and MUCH easier to service with rim break bikes.
$6.5k AUD only gets you a Shimano 105 Trek 😂 and weight over 8kg
Synapse 2 RLE is 4.4k right now with Ultegra groupset. Canyon is even cheaper. Don’t look to Trek for the most affordable bikes, they’ve never been that. Not to mention now you’re getting way better braking performance for that small weight penalty
Not to mention the servicing costs of disc brakes. Servicing rim brakes is an easy and cheap DIY.
@@Ferrichrome- "even cheaper"??? It must be nice to be able to talk like that. I have a lot of money but who knows what the future holds?
@@tomkunich9401 I mean, we're talking about a top level groupset here. From my understanding, Ultegra has never been affordable. If you want something cheap Shimano has plenty of offerings, which are really good by the way
I agree that the prices of bikes are getting out of hand recently but I also think you have to consider that a set of disc brake wheels is (usually) a one time purchase. Riding a lot in varying conditions, rim brake wheels are wearing out and need replacing, which makes the prospect of only replacing the disc brake rotors cheaper in the long haul. Back in the rim brake days, I'd never have considered buying a set of carbon wheels due to their poor braking performance and them wearing out (or even worse) when riding in the mountains. Now with a disc brake road bike, I get the benefit of aero carbon wheels and don't have to worry about wear and tear on the rim itself and for me personally I also got a lot more confident and faster on descends because I know I'll be able to stop when I need to.
As someone who hasn't tuned my feel on any braking system(I don't read brake feel much, and tend to be quite firm on braking pressure), and as someone who only has secondhand bikes, I have adapted my riding around rim brakes as that's what was available to me. I use alloy rims in all weathers, and carbon for best days or racing. I have also found the grip limit of tyres under braking, and the thought of having more braking power (as in locking wheels up even easier bringing a greater risk of crashing) is scary. I know that disc brakes give the opportunity for wider tyres which offer more grip to offset that but for a lightweight rider 32mm tyres is overkill for most of the roads I ride. One of my bikes is also a fixed gear, and I am not confident running a single brake. Even if they did make disc SS bikes I change my gearing a few times a year depending on purpose. I couldn't imagine the hassle of repositioning a disc brake caliper on the rear. Repositioning rim brake pads is easy (probably just because I am used to it).
The rim brakes on my Dura Ace 7100 group are great with aluminum wheels. I have no big issues at all, but the Campy disc brakes on my Super Record EPS with carbon wheels are superior in every way. Both work, but my disc setup is better with carbon and in the rain.
@@5891jonathan I have no qualms about discs being superior, I have used hydraulic discs off-road. But my point is my skills and judgement are far to inferior for discs when on road. Off-road, I use 2 piston calipers with as small a disc rotor as possible because if I went with anything else I would lose control under braking as I am far too aggressive on the levers, and don't like the comparative lack of resistance at the biting point on that system. I have my brakes set up where the free lever throw is so short they bite almost instantly.
@@leslie7922 Considering I can lock up rim brakes in the dry (on premium tyres) I dread to think how skittish I would be on a disc brake bike.
Try Swiss Stop carbon pads. They work just as good as regular pads on aluminum wheels.
That's what I use the yellow ones
Yup!
Depends on your wheelset. I have 3 sets of Reynolds tubs, the only recommended pads are their ($$) cryo blue power pads. I'm reluctant to try any other pads with them.
oh that's good, thanks you - it'll stop me mixing my carbon pads with my aluminium pads with are both black which could be a disaster.
I think it depends on the brand of carbon wheels. I had some Reynolds carbon wheels that were so-so with Swiss Stop carbon pads in dry weather, and a nightmare in wet weather.
I have just gone over to disc on my new road bike, and it may be an unpopular option but in the dry, I have not found them any better than my Wilier with rim brakes on carbon wheels. where discs come into their own it's in the wet, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But with most things in the bike industry, the customer has no choice but to go with what the manufacturer decides for them, carbon frames,press-fit BB, disc brakes and I am sure next will be 1 by setups. And most of it will come down to manufacturing costs.
you can always go with custom steel bike!
@@darekm.7769 I would rather go custom than pay £4K+ for an off-the-shelf big brand Frame.
Hi! that is pretty interesting to me, could you tell me exactly what bike is it? are the brakes hydraulic?
Rim brakes on alloy rims work pretty good. Rim brakes on alloy rims have two major advantages, namely ease of maintenance and competitive weight of wheels. Also, on alloy rims, rim brakes don't perform all that worse I find. However, I think if I was racing I would definitely get a new bike with disc brakes as they are so much better on carbon rims.
That's not so easy to say.
The mining and production of aluminum is extremely harmful to the environment!!!
On descents and in high heat, even aluminum can quickly become soft. Especially cyclists with a lot of luggage will know that. This doesn't happen so easily with today's disc brakes, although the quality has to be right. Rims, whether aluminum or carbon, last significantly longer with disc brakes, which also justifies the continued use of aluminum rims.
@@jamesbont7052 Carbon rims are waaaaay worse for the environment than aluminum, and aluminum can be recicled, in the bike shop I work we get alu rims that have been damaged, and after getting some of them, we sell the aluminum by weight for friday night expenses. Alu rims are easier to maintain, cheaper to replace and better for the environment than carbon rims. Full metal bikes all the way.
In my use I'd be very frustrated with discs. I almost always put my bikes in a car and drive to start riding. I spend winter months in the SW USA deserts, riding and camping where the nearest shops are hours away, so I do all my own maintenance. When tubulars got less popular I bought a few sets of carbon wheels. I finally wore one Reynolds to the kevlar after almost 10 years and average 2 times up and down Montezuma Grade, an 8% grade in 8 miles, plus all other climbs I can find. I ride tubulars because I descend at speed and having a blowout on a cliffside corner with a clincher or tubeless is potentially fatal if the tire comes off, which those often do.
So putting a disc bike in a small hatchback, taking through axles out, and dealing with concealed hydraulics just is too many complications.
I do rarely ride in rain and I have some alloy wheels for those possible rides.
I'm sorry to see the industry price us out with proprietary everything bikes that have few brand or even model year parts that interchange. I'm sorry to see their marketing has sold a lot of "improvements" that are OK and significant only if you ride team bikes and have following mechanical staff. Appropriate for pros, maybe..but I recall a fairly recent top pro choosing and winning with old tech..
And, for my $18k I guess I'd rather have a new Ducati 😊
I think the biggest disadvantage is when you have carbon wheels. The heat rim breaks generate on aluminum in a descend doesn’t damage the wheel. Carbon wheels are different; they are susceptible to heat and can delaminate with excessive heat. In those cases the disc break is a much better option. But for aluminum wheels I see no need for discs
In theory that's true, but unfortunately the reliability and temperature resistance of the disc rotors is such that they can easily warp on long mountain descents
A disc is still far less expensive than a rim. To avoid overheating people can break in periods and wait between each period to let it cool down.
Yes, then the breaks will brake
True. I would never buy a bike with carbon wheels and rim brakes.
@@michaelclements4664 True! Not the best idea if one has to spend quite a home budget on this. Though I have nothing against rm based carbon wheels (just use dedicated brake pads), let's not forget they were invented to do races, but rather not race "to the supermarket". As such, they should last quite long. A decade? Possibly more... People just get reach with time and can afford more. Carbon technology also got broader use in road bikes for 'common people'. Still, they/we sometimes buy things we can't sustain later on and get pissed about things, they simply wear, don't last forever.
Also not every biker has a knowledge or passion to quit other stuff just to build wheels from scratch. I do, but yes, I stick to the aluminium rims as well.
I'm on an 2007 Look 585 frame, DA-7900 mechanical and rim brakes. Never tried disk brakes but never had any bad experience or under-performance issues with rim brakes. Recently purchased ZIPP 303 Firecrest carbon wheels but haven't noticed any braking issues or reduced performance. However, I never ride in wet weather so never experienced rim brakes with carbon wheels. I also don't ride on long descents that require sustained braking, so no over-heating issues either. So for me and the riding I do, rim brakes are fine.
I’ve got 3 sets of Enve’s rim . I ride thousands of km’s a year. I can’t notice any wear and they brake like crazy (less in the wet).
Been riding my rim C60 since 2017 with the Campy carbon rims....no issues.
I have a disc and a rim brake road bike , the discs are awsome not going to lie , but fitting ee brakes with Swiss stop black prince pads to my rim brake bike was the best thing i ever did , the braking is insane , almost on par with the discs in the dry , rim brake bikes do look better in my opinion also , love the classic road bike look 👌
ask-any-top-pro-racer-80=procent-rim
These pads are only for carbon rims or aluminum?
@@sipapito for carbon rims
@@charliecook6909 Thanks!
6:20 I completely agree, everyone should choose what works for them, I rode my TRC Pro 1 with rim brakes/Reynolds 62mm wheels and it was not a good experience. Although, I loved how the bike looked and rode. If i got caught in the rain, the only result of pressing brake leavers was a swooshing sound and cash register going off in my mind as I sanded the brake surface down. Hardly any stopping power. Being a 1.96m/80kg rider, the rear Reynolds wheel didn't make it to down to Sault from Mt. Ventoux without warping (and I do know how to break properly). So, for me... disc brakes, please! Thanks for another great vid, Dave!
Out of interest: What do you mean with "I know how to break properly)? The sole purpose of the (safety feature!) breaks is .... breaking. Always. I will not ever touch a rim break in my life again after a sales person told me the following. I was interrested i a Magura Hydrolic Disk break out of curiosity. He said that after a long descend you should pause breaking for a while for the breaks to cool or it may fail. Let me reiterate here: The break has to break. Always. Even if the disc is glowing.
I really do not understand anyone prefering rim breaks and risking their life in a case of failure.
@@SirSmackalot5 I believe it might be worth David considering this topic for his channel. Every braking system can fail, especially when pushed to its limits, due to factors like rider weight, materials, speed, and application time. These factors influence heat buildup and can degrade brake performance. However, this can be mitigated with the right braking technique.
To answer your question: I use an on-off braking method to minimize the duration brake pads touch the rim, reducing heat. This technique efficiently slows the bike and extends the wheel set's life. I apply lighter pressure to the rear brake and more forceful pressure to the front brake simultaneously. The front brake is more potent and cools faster due to better airflow. Still, my rear wheel (Reynolds Strike 62) failed on the descent to Sault. My comment was not related to riding in the wet on carbon/rim combination, but I found in those conditions better not to ride. There was hardly any decelartion in the first 4-5 seconds of initiating braking on Reynolds with blue pads.
The problem with sentence "everyone should choose what works for them", is that if you want rim brakes you basically has no choice.
Everything on bike can break, hating on rim brakes just because sales person once told you something is definetly kinda dumb. And bike industry is pushing far more dangerous stuff than rim brakes.
I always risk my life with dura ace on my sl4 s works tarmac with alloy fulcrum racing zero wheels, 181 cm..90 kg athletic build, never had any issue with stopping power or other similar things, riding in Alps( Austria, Italy, Slovenia), big mountain in Croatia and I will always trust rim brakes shimano dura ace with Swiss stop pads
..
Last year I got back into cycling (primarily for exercise) after several decades of my old 1974 Dawes gathering dust in the basement. I restored and updated that old steel randonneuring bike with some modern tech but I kept the rim brakes from necessity (the 1970's era steel fork wouldn't be safe with disc) and curmudgeonly preference. I also utterly resisted the disc brake notion thinking that they looked ugly and the idea sounded just dumb to me.
When I researched to buy a brand new bike for an improved ride I continued avoiding anything with disc brakes. But as I zeroed in on the final configuration that was going to satisfy me I came to realize that disc was inevitable, dammit. I wanted 40-45mm tires and rim brakes just weren't an option there.
So I now have over half a year of riding with a new bike fitted with hydraulic disc brakes (SRAM Rival) and 40mm tires versus many years (mostly in my youth) riding rim brakes and I can safely say that I have been completely won over by the disc brakes; no question. Even though maintaining rim brakes is a breeze compared to bleeding and adjusting hydraulic disc brakes, the discs are astoundingly better performing and clearly much safer for me. I have avoided a few close calls on shared pathways and that alone made it abundantly clear that disc is the right choice for me, a dyed-in-the-wool, "steel is real", kind of old fart.
You can't compare 1974 rim brakes with modern disc brakes! Try some modern rim brakes if you want a valid comparison.
@@neil4701 to be sure, I replaced the 1974 rim brakes during the upgrade process. What I have now is: alloy 650b Bucklos MTB wheelset; Dia-Compe MX1000 sidepull BMX calipers; Kool Stop Supra 2 pads, Salmon. So, while this isn't anything like DuraAce, it actually works pretty good, even when wet.
I needed the 650b wheels to get 35mm gravel tires to fit in the frame, and the long reach BMX calipers to reach the rims. I installed a Sensah Empire groupset and the resulting bike rides extremely well. Even shed a few pounds off it. 🙂
@@BruceWalkerPhotography You'd still find a *massive* difference with a more modern rim brake road bike. Those long reach calipers will be very flexy and spongy compared with something like modern Ultegra road rim brakes, partially due to the long reach and partially to the quality. Just saying.. ;-)
Perhaps just me, I like those radial lacing on rim brake wheel spokes much more than the tangential lacing on disc brakes. From the appearance.
I don't care what the brand on the down tube is, all disc brake road bikes look sh!t in my opinion.
Man, rim brakes with alloy hoops is the sweetspot
I ride a 2016 carbon road bike with rim brakes, aluminum wheels, mechanichal shifting, external cable routing, threaded bottom bracket cups. It cost me less than 1500 euros, weighs less than 7 kg with pedals and cages, rides fine, stops fine, maintenance is low, easy and cheap. You are free to spend big bucks on a modern heavy disc brake road bike with integrated proprietary headset, internal cable routing, pressfit bottome bracket and all the other new gimmicks...
I wouldn't expect anyone to change back to rim brakes from disc. My road bike is Colombus Spirit with Ultegra R8000 group and rim brakes with Hunt carbon wheels. Weighs around 8kg. The brakes work fine. They're not as good as discs in the wet, fair enough, but they are perfectly ok. I ride down very steep hills in Wales in the wet. I do run tubular tyres and tubular carbon rims are way more durable and secure than clincher ones. I wouldn’t change my set up and am unlikely to change road bike any time soon. If I did, who knows? I've got a disc emtb with 4 piston callipers. Really appreciate those on that. And an acoustic mtb with hydraulic discs - ditto. Horses for courses I guess.
It all depends on the type of riding you do. And how much money you want to spend. And of course there is a choice between mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes
I'm a really heavy-set rider (6.4 @ 116kg), and while I believe that I could profit from disc-breaks, all my bikes are based on rim-breaks - all being at least Ultegra or above, and all pads are Swissstop (against alu-rims). Can't really complain about breaking power in those set-ups, not even on descents, or in wet conditions. Would discs break better/harder/smoother? Maybe, but as of yet: in ~10000km per year there was not a single incident that had me in danger because of lack of breaking power of rim-breaks. Nevertheless: with the advent of a new frame I will go disc-break, and I'm confident that those won't disappoint me neither. TLDR: I don't really get the ongoing holy war between the disc- and rim-disciples.
Rim brakes get the job done for where I ride and the way I ride. Don't need or want the extra weight, noise, complexity and maintenance headaches of disc brakes.
How are disc brakes giving you extra noise? Rim brakes are worse when it comes to that unless you do something fatally wrong with your discs
Use campag carbon specific red pads available in Shimano fit. Game changers!
Good vid! I happily ride rim brakes on my Cervelo R3 with Roval rapid carbon wheels. I am a weekend warrior and I live in Houston Texas pretty flat. No worries on doing mountains just Hills in the Hill country. My Ultegra rim brakes work perfectly and I enjoy my whole bike setup!
I ride in a dry So Cal climate conditions and mainly on flats so I see no need to replace my rim brake bikes. Actually, due to the movement towards disc brakes is rim brake lovers are scooping up incredibly deals on top quality pre-owned bikes.
Carbon rims with a grooved brake track surface works as good as aluminium in the wet. Its not gonna stop as quickly as a disc brake but the trade off is no rubbing.
I will NEVER buy a disc brake bike. It has nothing to do with consumer choice-- the manufacutrers decided that they coudl triple the prices by forcing everyone onto to disk.
For stopping a bike quickly repeatedly and predictably in all weather conditions, they are simply a better braking system. But for many use cases (dry weather, low speed, flat terrain, lightweight rider etc) rim brakes are perfect for the job.
@@Mububban23 Yes. Road discs are heavy, expensive (contemporary bikes cost x3 what they should), not aero, they squeek and rub and can be difficult to maintain. Worse of all, they can lock up and cause potentially fatal crashes.
I don't need them for my cycling practice.
I descended the Mont Ventoux with no problems on rim brakes.
And I don't believe this myth of bake track wear-down if you clean your rims and use carbon-specific brake pads.
Price increase is global and not related to disc brakes...
Then triple prices again by switching to Di2!
As someone who has actually had 2 wheel-sets wear down to destruction from extensive use by calliper brakes I think it’s really important to remind people that calliper brakes do indeed destroy wheels eventually and sometimes that is an explosive event. I’m not saying it’s common but it is a reality and another factor if you’re the type that rides their bike a lot.
Yep I've destroyed two rim brake wheels over the years, both on the rear thankfully, both resulted in lock ups.
@@gregmorrison7320 so you grab the brake hard. lock up the wheel and the wheel exploded? or did you destroyed the wheel from crashing due to the lock up?
@@asiantrick24 No brake was used, the rims were worn (older rims had no wear indicators) and one was in a race, the rear rim kind of broke and peeled in two at the braking track, I wouldn't call it an explosion, but it locked the wheel, I didn't crash and got another wheel from a sag wagon to continue the race. The other time was about 50km into a fast 100km group ride, going faster than the time in the race, same thing, wheel broke and peeled at the brake track, wheel locked up, gave everyone a fright but no crash, it was a short distance to a small down and I actually found some strapping and a rag to wrap around the tube and tire to hold it on the rim and rode home on another tube at reduced pressure, it was uncomfortable as hell every revolution going bump bump bump but no cell phones back then and it got me home. In later years I've thrown rims away as they started to come out with wear indicators, had one set that lasted 2 1/2-3 years max doing about 14,000kms a year.
Generally speaking, even without rim wear indicators, letting them get that far is down to lack of inspection and maintenance. If my rims look distinctly concave I will replace them.
@@matt_acton-varian Yep, definitely pushed things too far and were on the to do list lol. Much easier now a days with wear indicators, plus I have disc brakes for those all weather rides.
The great schism came when carbon rims with rim brakes occurred .. there we're all kinds of brakes pads introduced to improve braking in the wet, but to be honest, they were very ordinary compared to alloy rims. There were attempts to bond a alloy rim onto a carbon rim with mixed results, and t I considered them a bodge. in saying that, early discs, like Magura, had virtually no modulation (it seemed) and racing mountain bikes with them one had to be very ginger using them, whereas V brakes were vastly superior, to me...
I don't race road or mountain anymore, and personally don't feel the need for discs with the type of riding I do now, my Campag Chorus do everything I require, But if I upgrade my bike, which I am thinking of, finding new frames with mechanical shifting and rim brakes are very few and far between, but I don't feel I should be forced in to that disc/electronic scenario ...
I had built up my new road bike using a new chinese frame, 105 groupset, pedals and my used wheels, tires, handle bars and some other used bits. This cost me $1500. Canadian. I had thought about building a disk brake bike with simular spec. After pricing out new rims, tires, groupset and the frame. The cost balooned up to $5000.00. Needless to say I couldn't justify building or buying a bike for that much. The new 105 brakes are very good, maybe not the best, but good enough.
I've always loved rim brakes, Cannondale too. But as a 95 kg rider who lives in a hilly town, I always felt uncomfortable. I just had to switch to discs. Disc brakes have been amazing, no rubbing or whatnot.
Disc gives confidence when bombing down a 10% hill with my 87kg ass lol
I can understand how people living in flat areas didn't feel the need for discs but where I live, the discs have been great. I often descend twisty double digit descents and having the disc brakes have been hugely helpful. I also had an old rim brake tarmac SL4 that despite having the bike shop bring the levers in closer for my shorter hands, I still had issues reaching them with a solid grip. Pair that with bumpy roads and it would just add to the lack of enjoyment when descending. I have a rim brake TT bike which works well enough since its on the flats but I'll never go back to rim for my road bikes.
Same. My son has a bike with rim brakes, and the first time I went down a double-digit gradient on that thing I was quite sure that disc brakes are the only answer for me. Far more yet when the roads are wet.
Commuting in college last winter made me realize how terrible rim brakes were. Sure, they worked, but every time it rained I was stuck with poor brake performance. I’d have loved the security of hydraulic discs then. That’s not even going into the better modulation they offer, either.
Agreed. I did the Fred Whitton a few years back on a rim brake Tarmac, where you are either on the brakes as soon as you go over the top of Honister, Hardknott ( yes, I walked), Wrynose etc, or you are the person lying by the stone bridge with a paramedic tending to you, and my hands were killing me by the end of those descents, and I have fairly large hands. But in normal, dry conditions, I think Ultegra rim brake calipers with swiss block pads are great and with less tendency to squeal or ting, ting.
Just by happenstance I found myself in the recent situation whereby I had to dust down my 2015 Colnago C60 with Campag EPS V1, Enve wheels and rim brakes.
I have to admit I found it stunning to ride and in comparison, to my later model disc brake, electronic gear etc. bikes , it was every bit as good and as fast.
I've found from my recent experience the difference between a top frame rim brake and disc brake bike is not that profound.
I suspect though because my Colnago C60 is rim brake it is likely to be a half to a third the price of a disc brake bike.
In the wash up to my recent experience I don't think disc brakes are must or a game change. Rather, rim braking bikes still have a lot to offer and in many respects just as good.
Rim brakes were ok for me but since switching to discs I've been able to get rid of the winter bike and winter wheelsets. Just one bike now, with one wheelset that gets used all year round, wet or dry with everything from commuting to racing. Contrary to what some people think, it's a much simpler life with discs.
Bravo sir, couldn’t agree more. Disc brakes are awesome and if you want to ride rim brakes that’s cool too. 😎👍🏻
Having ridden both Dogma Fs I feel like a few points aren't being touched upon enough: you quote consistency with which I suspect you mean braking consistency *between weather conditions. But this IMO is a luxury problem: the performance of rim brakes in the high end wheels is pretty much .1 to .2 seconds from dry to wet, and precisely this is fully consistent. I think pushing the limits during wet weather is already a questionable choice unless you're racing, but even then tyre traction is greatly more important than braking performance so again the point seems moot.
To me the biggest limiting factor are the tyres and the limitation of traction. This part is independent of the mode of braking.
To me then, the pros of rim brakes:
- Ride feel due to carbon layup
- Adjustability, as you also quoted
- Wheel changes
- Weight
- Ceiling of aero performance is higher, for example with the TriRig brakes + custom 3d printer mounting components
Disadvantages:
- Mode of braking for full carbon wheels requires high end rims, but then wearing away high end rims is not a great feeling
- Riding fast on the descents means running latex inner tubes is not recommended, since rim will inevitably heat up during braking
The advantages of disc:
- Same performance between wet and dry
- Choice of wheels (industry induced)
- Running latex inner tubes or tubolito is worry-free
Note that brake squeal is omitted from the disc disadvantages because there exist treatments and spoke choices that will eliminate the need for discs to be sterile in use.
Thank you for another video with beautiful classic CAAD12. Please don't stop with this one :)
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Without watching the video: Yes.
Without watching the video. Long live the Rim brakes!
@@SonofHannder Maybe you would like drum brakes on your car too..
😂😂👌 every Mainstream Cycling RUclipsr is wrong about Rim Brakes 🤷🏼♂️
Ok . except DurianRider
The rim job will never go out of style.
@@wyatberp3611comparing apples with potatoes
Rim brakes with aluminum tacked carbon rims, like the Campagnolo Bullet worked well. However they can’t match the weight of a carbon only rim. Caliper brakes, as on touring and cross bikes, allowed for more tire clearance than with rim brakes on road racing bikes. Now that larger tires with wider rims are being used to reduce rolling resistance, most rim brakes just don’t have the clearance. Also, with the advent of the adventure/ do-it-all bike, one has the option of using different wheels 700 or 650 to increase tire width for more off road alternatives. I ride only rim, caliper on my ‘90’s MTB, but if I was to go to bike packing/touring or gravel, and especially with a new XC MTB, disc is the only way to go! Has so many advantages and options in these applications.
I love my rim-braked bikes, the only mistake I ever made was buying a set of full carbon clinchers... they look the part but braking is worse on the dry and absent in the wet. So I also do love my disc braked 'winter' bikes. For climbing I would always opt for rim brakes. Light disc equipped bikes are incredibly expensive and I've done fast descents from mountains in the wet with rimbrakes on aluminium clinchers and that went fine.
However: if I had to buy a new bike right now I would opt for a disc braked bike. The reason is mention by you David: availability. Getting good quality wheels and parts for rim braked bikes is getting harder and harder.
Thanks, David, for sharing your experiences and with your Cannondale test mule, how about an aluminum front rim and something carbon in back, if you have to ride some carbon. That might be a good combo for a retro bike and that Cannondale sure does look good, especially at the price these days.
Like the set of Campag bullets on my bike - 50mm carbon with alloy rim - which give the benefits of both aero and good rim braking
I live in the french alps. I ride custom steel rim brake bike with carbon wheels. I'm not super light (75kg) nor very powerful. I hit the brakes nearing 70km/h on the descents (I love my life!). Occasionally I got catch up by the rain or storm. The bike is fantastic and I'll swap it for the new one when the frame fails (and even that can be easily repaired as I got 3 frame builders at hand). I also have a steel gravel bike with disc brakes. Different bikes for different type of use.
A decent alloy brake track in the dry is perfect. I own both systems and I like both.
With respect to you using the carbon wheels with that model of calliper. Those are designed for modulation with a narrow rim leading to the sensation you experience. It’s harder to fine a wider set of carbon rim brake wheels that those. Swap out the callipers it’s night and day.
The things I don't like about discs are hydraulics being harder to set up (for me at least), and they seem harder to keep quiet. My next bike will no doubt have them though.
I’ve got Hunt Carbon wheels combined with rim brakes. No issues at all in my experience. Don’t ride when it’s wet very often mind you.
I do have a carbon wheel disc brake bike. But the few times I got caught in a pouring rain it was pretty awful. If it's dry, they're perfectly adequate (and light and easy to work on). But their performance is just not as good as my bike with disc brakes. Shimano Ultegra in both cases. I did find Reynolds Cryo Blue Power pads helped a lot on rim brakes. But $$.
Hi, I live in Bala and I have descended Bwlch y Groes on aluminium and carbon rim brakes. I think there are no issues with the latest carbon rim wheels from Hunt and Scribe and I think people need to remember that the first time a disk bike won the TDF was 2022.
My MTB has disk brakes, started with rim brakes in 1988. Dirt and wet conditions are a bad combination, the aluminum rims wear out quickly.
When it comes to my racing bike, I still ride the same racing bike since 1992 (Restomod F. Moser) and I don't see any point in swapping.
I'm missing the aesthetic component of the whole discussion.
For me, a beautiful classic steel frame with rim brakes is a reason to enjoy getting on a racing bike and riding...
My rim brake on my Campagnolo Boro WTO is very good, however in the wet the braking performance isn’t great. I’ll be purchasing my first disc brake bike soon. Finger’s crossed.
Isn’t it horses for courses? My single speed commuter is perfect with rim brakes. My light weigh SuperSix Evo has rim brake/carbon wheel combo but would never ride it in the wet. My Synapse has discs and perfect for those weekend battles and sportives in all weather. If I had only one bike..has to be discs though.
My two pairs of carbon rim brake wheels both have aluminium brake tracks so i get the good braking and the lightness/looks of the carbon rims. I guess these days it will be hard to find those anymore
Those aren’t carbon wheels. They’re aluminium wheels with carbon fairings…..
I have a bike with 105 rim brakes but im not a coper - disc brakes are superior to rim brakes. Levers are easier to press and less tiring, there is no worry about cable routing bends, there is less to worry about contaminants picked up from road smearing on the rim and decreasing brake performance in rainy weather, the mainteneance is actually a dead simple since most of the bikes won't even need a change of braking fluid if you ride on flat terrain, so that leaves you with braking pads[super simple], replacing braking rotor[again, very simple] and maybe replacing fluid every 5 years or so. I find that you can modulate both types of brakes similarily, disc brakes are just way more responsive and needs some learning to not ham fist them. With modern designs, disc brakes can be as aero as rim brakes, the only small downside is still the weight, but it is very close if you use highest tier with carbon-titanium rotors.
For carbon fiber rim brake wheel , you need to buy wheel that add special brake surface that can withstand the heat up to 320 celcius. It will brake almost as good as aluminium rim brake
I'm in a similar situation atm, commuting on my older rim brake bike after spending the past two years on discs. Makes a world of difference, dry or wet conditions, to the point that I HAVE to improve the rim brake system to keep using it. Right now they're too unresponsive to have any modulation and can hardly lock my rear wheel. I don't feel safe with traffic around me, especially in the wet and/or on slight declines. So now I'm asking myself, how are rim brakes "simpler", as most people argue. They're dependent on so many things: fresh cables/housings, proper cable routing, buying some very special high-end pads (not cheaper!), toeing them in, cleaning them and the brake track regularly, cleaning and lubing the brake calipers (not easier!)... Disc brakes are fit and forget. Maybe bleed once or twice per year. Swapping pads is cheap and easy. No further adjustments. With rim brakes, I have to readjust every time I pop the wheel on or off, because the tyre won't fit between the pads (with the caliper open), also performance suffers if my rim goes out of true, so I have to keep that in check as well. And why? To save a few grams and be a good old traditionalist? Not to mention that a hydraulic brake won't ever fail completely the way a snapped cable would. I've had a shifter cable snap once, wouldn't want that on my brake line. Luckily, can't happen with hydro.
Been using rim brakes since the early 70's, with pretty much no problems at all but then of course I was living in Sunny California, 40 plus years on I'm still able to service my CAMPAGNOLO SR brake calipers because spares can still be found. My biggest problem with bike gear, one summer, freewheels were exploding on me, I'd hear a cracking noise then ding! ding! ding! that was the ball bearings hitting the spokes, then BANG! Everything all went to hell! My boss with a bicycle distributor, said what in the hell are you doing riding up walls, I said no, I was launching across an intersection when the green light was about to go red, I broke 3 freewheels that summer. My bicycle was with a steel track frame that was converted to road, it was a screamer.
disc brakes and wide carbon rims coupled with wide low pressure tires are the best things that happened to road bikes in the last decades. seriously rim brakes work, are cheap and reliable, but everytime i could only get a 25mm tire rimbrake bike in the holidays, even when its was a line topping model i felt like i was back in the stoneage. and when you got a disc brake bike, the maintenance was often very very sloppy to the point i returned it and demanded my money back. presumably the old grumpy bike mechanics had not catched up to the new technology. i can easily see how this influenced many people that maybe first experienced disc brakes on rental bikes. but it seems to have gotten better now. this year i had multiple disc brake bikes on majorca and tenerife and everything was fine. stark contrast to 2020 and 2021.
Depends on what ppl want... I like smashing uphill KOMs and its just impossible with disc brakes cuz I cannot build diac brake bike inder 7,5 kg without spending 10k, while my rim brake bike is 6,7 kg and still breaks good (not as good as discs)...
I am on the fence about this. I just bought a bike this spring with disc brakes. They work pretty well, and I can’t complain. But I didn’t pay for them. I bought a like new but second bike and got a good deal. But if I’d bought a brand new bike, I wouldn’t have wanted to pay $100 extra for disc brakes. All my rim brake bikes in the past worked just fine.
Bike manufacturers always need to have something new to sell us. Back in the early 70’s cheap bikes had side pull brakes, and better bikes had center pull brakes. But then in the mid-70’s they decided side pulls were better, so the high end rim brakes were side pulls. 🤷♂️
Way back then my first road bike had Weinmann 999 center pulls, and my second one had Dia-Compe center pulls, which were clones of the Weinmanns. Both worked really well and needed very little attention. I never wanted or needed anything better.
The biggest disadvantage is when you broke a spoke and need to loose the brake cable so no-brake. Happens to me 3 times, had to call someone to pick me up in the middle of the route. Then you have less power brake and with rain is almost none. Disk brakes when you try them is another level
I love my rim brake bike. Works very well on alu wheels. Very nice that there is little fuss with them. Easy to maintain and fix. Disc brakes on my gravel bike are a nightmare in comparison. But for gravel it does function very well of course.
I recently switched to disc brakes, and I must admit, they are finicky and somewhat difficult to manage as compared to rim brakes. I experienced my first horrendous brake squeal event after the first cleaning, and it was a bit of a deal to get them to stop. What I learned to prevent / address it added about 15 minutes to my cleaning routine. I've had a disc actually rattle off the wheel (bad e-bike OEM assembly) and I've had several bent discs. Lastly, the disc pads and calipers are sensitive and require frequent work. Working them with my e-bike is a real chore. Overall, and unlike rim brakes, the disc ones seem to have a number of additional maintenance and pristine cleanliness issues. As I said, just started, so I could be wrong, but I like the reliability and ease of rim brakes. They've always worked for me, and I am not worried about massive braking power as I do not go crazy fast at all.
Just Ride Bikes, says it all. I have been riding my Cannondale CAAD3 road bike since I bought it in 1997. Now the bike is approaching 30 years. The bike and its SRAM brakes are still great after all these years. I wish I could say the same for myself.
If pros were given a choice they would ride rim brakes. Top end rim brakes apply the brakes faster, what do I mean by that. Disc brakes have a lot to of travel in the lever and pros historically rode with their breaks adjusted tightly which meant they could break almost instantly, which stopped you hitting the wheel in front. The rim breaks also created no screeching noise which historically puts riders on edge in the bunch.
That’s said rim breaks are now disappearing fast and will soon be very unusual on a top end bike
Once I upgraded my rim pads to Koolstop triple compound I never missed brake rotors....
When you think about it the rim brake is operating under the same prinables as a disk brake set up. The rim is the Disk and the the pads work in the same way by adding friction when they make contact with the rim the same as when the pads in a disk brake set up make contact with the disk.
I'm glad you made this video, well done! Many people still think disc brakes are a scheme pushed by bike brands to sell more expensive bikes, but that doesn't make any sense at all. The move to rim brakes has been very gradual, disc brake and rim brake bikes have been sold side by side for years and customers have made their choice already by rendering rim brake bikes unprofitable. Someone like Canyon can't spend a few million dollars to make the moulds just to sell 20 bikes. You can rest assured that bike companies have lots of other ways to make bikes more expensive that don't cost them millions in R&D.
"just to sell 20 bikes" - Canyon's rim brake bikes were selling like hot bread, there was a fine market for them. In case you didnt know it, not all regions of our planet get high precipitation like central/north EU does.
"scheme pushed by bike brands to sell more expensive bikes" - Talking about Canyon, do u know how much prices increased in the name of "better braking performance"? Ultimate CF SL 7 was 1700EUR, now starting price is 2800EUR.
"Canyon can't spend a few million dollars to make the moulds just to sell 20 bikes." - yes, requires rocket technology to support both type of frames. It must be a miracle that after all those years that they had both frames, they didnt go bankrupt!
I had actually no idea that disk brakes were so predominate with road bikes. I kind of have my own little riding world where I almost never have chats with other road bike riders, and rarely see them also. They aren't as popular where I live as other types of bikes. Good point about the more affordable or value bikes. Caliper rim breaks came standard on the State Bicycle model I bought this year, and since I had those on the old 10-speed I had when I was a teenager in the 1970s, it was a continuation and a reacquainting for me. The bike has been super and the brakes (with more planning ahead) have been super for me also. I can't see getting a set for a road bike unless they came standard on another bike. I have them on my Marine hybrid with it's 35C front and 38C rear tires so I'm understanding of the nature and the differences.
I've never used disc brakes yet. Nevertheless it is obvious to me they must be better. In order to stop my carbon wheeled bike at the bottom of a steep descent before a road crossing I have to squeezed my brakes with three fingers in a death grip. I've read about and seen videos of cyclists doing this easily using one finger with disc brakes. In addition disc brakes do not wear out the rims of carbon wheels. Therefore carbon wheels should last a lifetime if the bearings are regularly serviced making an investment in expensive high quality wheels easier to justify.
Yeah, I wouldn't touch carbon rims on a rim brake bike for that reason alone. Even if the braking wasn't awful compared to disc brakes. Disc brakes are just fantastic. I am a 80kg+ rider and being able to slow quickly from 80kph is pretty important on country roads. Being able to scrub speed easily and quickly is vital. Not having to worry about a rim that is out of true is quite nice. For most people that extra weight saving isn't worth the trade-off.
I prefer rim brake, my 105 brake works just fine in a good quality aluminium wheel
I might try the disc in a few years when I change bike
its really unfair how all new bikes are on disc though
disc is more expensive and weight more, the option of rim brake has to be maintained
The rippled brake track on the zipp nsw‘s works like a treat. I’ll not ride them in the wet anyway to keep them longer alive. Keen to see how disc brakes will further evolve.
A well set up pair of rim brakes (especially direct mount type) can be really good but there is no doubt they are unreliable in the wet, are inconsistent, destroy wheels making them often financially unviable for rebuild, and also hamstring frame designers. Disc brakes just work; you fit them and then basically chuck new pads in from time to time, replace the odd rotor and thats about it. Needing to bleed them constantly isn't really a thing for the most part.
2014 scott solace 20 ultegra mechanical and rim brakes ! LOVE IT. That being said, if you gave me a new bike with di2 and disc brakes I'd weep with joy !
A good point is that rim brake in driy areas are perfectly suited to cover everything. So if you live in california like I do abosolutely no reason to change to disc. But finding a rim brake frame is very difficult now if you want to continue using them. Unfortunate
V brakes were awesome. Most road rim brakes are pretty good. My problem is Britians' weather. I had a half decent set of tektro road rim brakes. And one day on a gravel loaded descent in the dales, the mud started to pile up on my tires, in my brakes, and i had a very lucky crash at the bottom. It could easily have killed me as my bike clipped a rock, i went over the bars and passed through the centre of two large boulders which, given half a metre in either direction would have been a broken spine or skull. Thankfully i crashed healdlong into a fairly soft bush. Ive also had similar happen when snow piled up in brakes. They do work, but they are so easy to contaminate. My next bike had disc brakes. And given what and how i ride, i will never chance a repeat of that again.
The pros say that crashes are much more likely now that everyone is on discs, because braking is done later and then much more aggressively, with locked wheels etc
The old cantilever brakes on the mountain bikes of yesteryear, were completely capable of launching you OTB when you jammed em hard. I know that for a fact. They never failed to stop me regardless of my situation.
I also ride both and they are both great but the combination of disc brakes and through axles are far superior and easier use.
I've been riding at least as long as our David. And I could not agree more; (hydraulic) disc brakes are simply superior as an all weather/all condition braking solution. That said; I have caliper rim brake bikes. one is the very same CAAD12 David has (in a 63cm size) and the other; a Titanium 'Habanero' frame. I only ride them on the driest of days and only when I'm feeling particularly "Klassiker". Otherwise; it's my tried and true fleet of Cannondale bikes with disc 🙂 I actually love both but I also understand the limitations of caliper braking.
Great vid David. I was always AGAINST disc breaks back in 2015/2016 but NOW, I WOULD’NT go back to rim. DISC breaks ARE FAR MORE SUPERIOR in ALL stopping conditions in ALL weather conditions. I’m a true “ DISCITARIAN” if there is a word😂😂😂🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️
POV: You dont know how to brake with rim brakes. From pure physical standpoint this statement simply isnt true.
I recommend looking at the juintech F1 or G series hybride mechanical disk brakes. Far more affordable, lighter, and with braking that is almost at the hydro level you can buy sram red mech levers for less than 300 pounds at 280g :D.
David: go and ride a rim brake bike with carbon wheels, ride at the same pace you do with disk brake bikes, descending or pulling in the grupetto; and after, come and tell me…
My point: rim brakes with alloy wheels are one world ; rim brakes and carbon wheels are another
I think the case for the road disc brakes is made by the carbon wheels, you can't have high performance carbon wheels with good performance braking using a rim brake, also, the carbon wheels are not a small thing, 10-30W/pair advantage from wheels is huge
I love the Ultegra brakes on my 1998 Klein Quantum Race. That said, I would never switch to carbon wheels on that bike because I am sure the wear on the rim and braking quality will not be good. Will I switch to disc brakes eventually? At 63, I think the Klein is it and I don't see changing the fork or adapting the existing frame so That I could use discs. An equivalent, Ultegra equipped modern bike is 2-3 times the cost I paid for the Klein, which I can afford, but why? If it isn't broken, why fix it. That said, If I was in my 20's or early 30's, I would probably invest in the most modern technology.
I have 4 road bikes, all over 30 years old and sporting rim brakes. I love biking though don’t do as much as i’d like due to work schedule. I know the modern road bike is superior in all respects to the bikes i ride, but part of what i love about biking is the aesthetics of the classic road bike; i love seeing them and being on one. I find modern bikes paradoxically look really heavy despite being light, and disc brakes look so bulky and huge, all the more so when paired with these modern thick wheels. So i ride rim brakes, and never when it’s raining..
On my road bike I hate disk brakes. They get too hot on down hill, lock up if used to hard, for me rim brakes all the way. On a mountain bike where brakes are not taxed for long periods, disk brakes are ideal.
I have cane Creek ee brakes with Swiss Stop pads on Boyd composite rims. I love them and have never had any issues braking in any weather. I love disc brakes too but I travel with this bike so breaking it down to pack it without having to deal with the hydraulics is very nice. Next build I’ll likely go with Paul mech disc brakes for the same reason.
But braking with rim brakes and aluminium wheels in wet is just as good as dry. Voting with oir walet wasn't the case here the move came from the manufactures.
How are the disc brakes performing in wet once you find out they've been contaminated, which on the the road happens more ofthen then when ridig on trails?
You were always wrong about rim brakes, and you were the guy who once said in your video that you didn't ride a bike you had because "it had rim brakes". Lol. Things one does to make content. Rim brakes were good enough to stop pro rides (as recently as Pogacar in 2021) during TDF. On mountain bikes, sure, discs are better but not everyone on a road bike is descending at 80-90km/hr. Even in rains, the rim brakes are perfectly good for anyone bar the ones who actually are pros, ex-pros or have pro-like ambitions.
@@Lenser cost alone can be a big factor indeed, maybe not for you, sure, not hating you on that, but cost is a huge factor. and again, discs are superior only if you live in a place where it rains a lot or often, and you ride pretty fast. I live in a very wet area but I ride easy. So, for me, rim brakes are all I ever need.
I ride fast and on mixed terrain, and on a metal braking surface even in the rain I can stop pretty quickly on a road bike using rim brakes. I can't speak for carbon wheels in the wet as I avoid using my carbon rim brake wheelset in the off season here in the UK.
Honestly it feels like the entire debate is blown out of proportion to convince you that tried and tested technology once used commonly in the TdF is suddenly so incapable of stopping your bike that it's borderline dangerous.
If you have a road bike with quality disc brakes it will stop fine. If you have a bike with quality rim brakes it will stop fine (apart from maybe less effective on carbon rims in the rain).
The most important thing is making sure your pads are clean and in good condition and your brake system is properly set up. That's the true deciding factor as to whether you will have good braking or not.
A disc brake is far more complex to service too.
@@brianhagan4728 Thousands of Mountainbikers can do it. So why shouldnt Roadies be able to service them?
@@hkp9257 doesn't mean they aren't also serviceable at home..just that rims are literally able to adjust using your hands and an Allen key in a few minutes. And it's incredibly simple. Discs can drive you nuts if they keep rubbing. If you have a hydraulic leak or need to bleed them you have to do it in a suitable area with a lot of fluid and syringes. It's much more technical, even if it's still doable by a layman.
If you have to be aware of what Rim and Disc brakes do and adjust your wheels based on your environment. If you live in flat areas you can use Carbon wheels for ever without wearing them down. If you live in mountains of course disc and carbon wheels make more sense. In mountain descents I would use aluminum wheels on a rim brake bike. My carbon wheels are over 3 years old, thousands of km in the flats of Ontario and the wheels look brand new. If you use tap braking ( rotating rapidly back to front braking so the carbon wheels do not get any damage) there will be no damage to your carbon wheels. I will stick with Rim brakes until there is no more rim brake frames. Rim brakes are brain dead easy to repair or replace and also very cheap which is why the industry switched to Disc frames ( money one the frames and brakes components).
Spring for a pair of HED jet black rims that have the machined brake track. It is “as good” as a disc brake.
I've said it before David, you should try and get a set of Hunt Aero Wide aluminum wheels for that bike, be nice to compare the difference on your circuit with those deep carbon wheels, you'll have better braking, a lighter weight, they'll look better, and I bet the difference in speed will be minute.
Disk brake courses a lot of problems. Most of my pats are force into disc brake bike and after awhile they all complained about the same one issue and it’s annoying as hell. You will know when you know.
I like rim brakes, my question is why people want to spend so much money in carbon rims when the weight is very similar to aluminum rims, disc hydraulic brakes are very heavy and they always need adjustment, contaminate etc etc
So after buying my v1r ( which I absolutely love ) I’m not even considering buying a disc frame as buying some new rims in a few years is a lot lot cheaper and to abandon my v1r is not an option. Regards winter riding I have a rim frame kitted with some rs80s c50 with ample braking force in the wet , it’s like this , we don’t have abs on any pushbike so if you brake too hard wet or dry you’re gonna lock up . Don’t get me wrong I have disc on my cx and they’re fantastic, my point about the road bike is that to just abandon a perfectly great bike to go to disc is a bit much and wasteful, I just imagine that if disc weren’t invented for the road nobody would give a toss really.
Ps if I were to upgrade to the latest v4 I’d be looking at 7-8k 😮.
How much does it cost to service and change rotors? Can we all do it ourselves? Why would you ride in the rain? I race every weekend and I'll leave disc brakes to my mtb and gravel bike thanks.
I was anti disc brake mostly because I had a set of wheels and did my own maintenance. Moved to a new area, headed down a mountain after a climb, it started misting and I could barely slow down let alone stop on the carbon wheels. If you live in the mountains or wet areas I can't imagine being without at this point. I still have rim brake bikes and use them for crit racing or true cafe rides, but I'm too old to take a risk of not stopping. Side note, there's also the benefit of brake tracks not wearing out and having to replace wheels. Rotors are relatively cheap.
Several comments about poor rim brake performance in the wet, but that’s fine because they don’t ride in the wet. Where do these people live?! From a safety standpoint, I don’t understand how you can argue that it is fine for companies to continue to sell bikes that have significantly diminished braking performance when it starts raining! Should these bikes have disclaimers “for fair-weather cycling only”?
As David states in his video multiple times ...This isnt a debate on Rim vs Disc.
Both set ups have different advantages/ disadvantages
Simply chose which best suits your riding
For me personally, I still prefer the performance, ease of maintenance, lighter weight and aesthetics of rim brake set up
I also prefer the performance parameters of lighter , more nimble rim brake bikes
All of my Road Bikes are top spec'd Campagnolo of the early 2000 to late 2000's that were the best of their generations
There is a very strong market segment for these type of bikes as an " ULTIMATE ALTERNATIVE " to NEW
Top line , spec'd bikes builds at a fraction of their orginal cost and WAY LESS EXPENSIVE then NEW
Rim breaks are not fade our only because of popularity of disk brakes, disk brakes also allow different frame shapes, bigger tire clearance, wheels that don't need to fearure a breaking surface, etc...