The whole argument offered by Sai Deepak is intellectually dishonest. If celibacy requires an environment free of opposite sex, then why is Maalikapurathamma temple within Sabarimala an exception, given that she is also a celibate by way of her eternal wait for Ayyappan (as a consequence of his holy promise)?? Isn't that a double standard? Men can be the pujaris for Maalikapurathamma temple, men can enter as devotees there, but somehow women cannot?? So, moral of the story is when argument based on menstruation was not successful, they cooked up the whole argument based on celibacy - which also is weak as seen above! Farcical lawyers!
As a girl, I have felt spiritually lord Ayyappa.he is for everyone but if we are true Ayyappa bhakthas then we should respect & follow his needhis. Painful request🙏🏻
I totally accept it. As you said everyone has to follow the rules even the men. According to tradition maladharanam has to be done in sori muthu ayannar koil near Tirunelveli, but majority don't. Why should only women have the onus to follow the tradition. Both genders have equal responsibility of protecting the tradition.
@@naturalselection71 Kumari Amman Temple In Kanyakumari, Mata Temple In Bihar, Attukal Bhagavathy Temple In Kerala, Kamakhya Temple In Andhra Pradesh are some of the temples in India where only women are allowed and not men
@@user-vh1gc1ct6z I am not questioning your belief system. I am talking in context to the temple of Sabarimala. Women not allowed is one of the rules. Some of the rules for men are as follows. 1) the mala which every Ayappa devotee wears during the mandalam has to be received from Sori Muthu Ayanar temple near Tirunelveli. How many do that? 2) every devotee has to walk from his house to the temple of Sabarimala. I think 99% of men don't do that. 3) I have personally seen some devotees observing the Viradh only for 3 days where as it should be 41 days. There are so many rules for people before going to Temple. It is all specified in boothanatha upakyanam. I know 99% of the bakths don't follow. My question is why so much uproar when women do not follow and no noise when men astray from these rules.
@@naturalselection71 in bharat, there are no gods only deities. every devotee had a right to devote his/her own deity. and even today we have that right In the same. some devotees started worshiping Thier own deity ayyappa. and they constructed a shelter for Thier deity. and they decided that Thier deity should be ashkalita brahmachari so the deity cannot even see young women between 10 to 50 yes the temple is a public property and every devotee has a right to visit that temple but let's compare it with other example my country belong to every citizen of my country it's a public property some people of my country decided that Jana gana mana as national anthem. as my nation is public property I want to change national anthem as "Pakistan jinadabad bharat murdabad"why I can't do that what is the difference between these two cases if you want to devote you can devote any deity and visit any temple or you can create your own deity and build your own temple but if you want to devote a specific deity at specific temple you have to respect the regulations of that place
@@Nation-Fashion Buddy, did you even read the message fully. I am not questioning your belief.what I am saying is if women should follow the rules regarding Sabarimala temple, then men should also follow the rules regarding Ayappan temple. Please read another comment of mine which says some of the rules for men related to Sabarimala and how 99 percent of men dont do that. It seems you are not reading the full message so, I will specify one of the rules specified in boothanatha upakyanam. Actually all the devotees should walk from their home. Tell me how many men do that?
wooow Sai is much younger to me.. and I am just becoming "natmastak" to his pure genius ... May maa bharti and Dharma itself bless him for this Dharm Yudhh
So called women rights activists has curbed the issue totally just for fame and publicity. These days feminism is on its high so it doesn't mean that every such issue is related with women rights. At least think twice before you destroy tradition of such temples for just fame. I'm a woman and I totally agree with J sai Deepak.
Hi sister pragya thank u for ur humble support I am a asstprofessor at gvt college ..here I need to state that the sabarimala is holy place where the custom made like this this feminist are thinking hw to destroy the social living of families they haven't any life themselves ..this mensurational women can't go up the hill peak with on ..it's physical ly not possible ..sister I believe u got it plz visit our Kerala give support our sabrimala ..if there is good brother there is no need of feminist ,,as a brother can protect and respect our sisters thanku bye all is well
I am very happy to girl supporting the issue...funny part is that, people who does not believe got and doesn't go to temple want equal rights in temple.. They actually don't have any idea why this tradition is applicable for only this ayyappa temple...what you said is absolutely true...
Till yesterday I felt Hindus in Kerala were making baseless idiotic arguments and feminists were right. One video of this man and everything falls into place. PEOPLE SHOULD HOLD THEIR EMOTIONS BACK AND TRY TO MAKE A LOGICAL CLAIM. J SAI 😘😘
I believe in some tradition, say dinkamatham, which says I have the right to kill non-believers... Does that give me the right to kill, because of my belief in the tradition? (In fact this is happening when IS kills the so called kafirs, interpreting scriptures the way they want). And nowhere is it written by Ayyappan to ban a particular age group women... Sai Deepak is the stupidest person I have seen on this planet.. nothing should stand above fundamental rights....
@@hhnanduNobody is banning women, infact there is no ban. Women themselves decide not to go to temple during periods. What he is saying makes sense and if you listen carefully even he admits the ban on the age group is uneccessary and flexibility should be brought in.
@@hhnandu This entire issue is a lot complicated than it seems, fundamental rights are important but when it comes to religion traditions customs and beliefs matter a lots because religion cannot be explained by scientific facts and logic. Hinduism has a lot of spiritual fundamentals, many even the believers themselves do not know of this and are blindly following traditions and giving it more importance than the faith itself.
@@bvn4680 did he say that banning is unnecessary? May be in the 2nd part. I didn't realise there was a second part to this.. There is something more I want to say.. I don't know what's your take on this.. In yellama temple (Karnataka) and in many other temples in South & North-east, there is a tradition called "devadasi".. According to this, the deity shall have a girl/woman (age around 6-30) to be dedicated to the temple.. So, the impoverished dalit people who are unable to take care of their girl children dedicate their kids to the temple at the age of even 3-4.. After some years, most of them are found roaming the streets as sex workers.. (According to NHRC report,2006, nearly half of them ended up as sex workers) So, what I'm saying is that, the deity's wish as people glorify here, need not be right all the time.. it should pass the test of fundamental rights.. here, banning women of a particular age is clearly discrimination.. which shall not be allowed to continue... Reformers have always challenged such practices.. that's how we made a society where women are empowered at least to this position.. Please don't support discrimination on the basis of a God you have never heard saying that.. I am really feeling sad when people place an age old tradition which have no logical basis before "other human beings "...
@@bvn4680 and when such an issue reaches the court & gives a progressive verdict, we shall not think of going back again.. "principle of non-retrogression of rights" as endorsed by SC itself..
If one is determined not to get convinced and have a prejudiced mind what to do ?.. That is what has happened so far even Institutions support all these things in the name of modernity and liberal values
A deeply knowledgeable Hindu Judge would have been a better choice for this discussion, to add Life and Light and further clarification to the lay audience. As it is, Sri Sai Deepak alone has to clarify everything , which effort on his part is laudable and admirable. Others are mere show pieces. No aspersions on Justice Ansari .
I am a woman and I won't enter sabarimala till I reach the age.. j respect my culture .. I am so saddened by all the drama going on with the sabarimala.. Why bring feminism into this .. facepalm
I will not enter even if they allow but I guess if some women are so desperate to pray I think we should let them....assuming they are doing it with sheer nobility to pray
To fulfil your wishes, neither Nangia nor Ansari should be present. Indeed there're many videos released by the lawyer where he spoke solo. You can watch them, where he reiterates all the points he makes here.
I don't have TV in my room. I've only internet. I've subscribed to hotstar for sports channels. I watch youtube for music and film songs. Occasionaly, I come across such discussions here. Ok. This is enough about me. Now tell me why cant we change a tradition which is against Hindu women?
First of all, I don't need a deity which hates to see my mother, wife, sister and daughter. Why should I need that deity? Next, my questions may appear to be stupid because you have a close mind but they are valid. The scriptures under which the deity is treated as a celibate, are not ancient. You cant go to Vedas or Puranas to seek its validity. The deity and all that stories connected with it, are bringing disrepute and shame to Hindu religion. This is an age which does not treat menstruating women as polluted and unclean beings. I am sorry. I've no business to do either with such a deity or with men who defend the deity. Have a good sleep. Goodbye
I believe the devotees who go to Sabarimala also observe brahmacharya during the period of fast and prayer. The people who wants to push this feminist agenda are not devotees because if they were, they would respect the traditions of the temple itself.
Very sad.. Hindus this shows the lack of unity in us and lack of our knowledge about the history of our culture.. we really need to teach out next generation everything about our religion..
Less than 5% girls were actually demanding that. Rest 95% are against it. Those 5% girls are either politically or ideologically motivated and are the victims of so called modernization. They are PseudoDevotees who are either doing it for fame or for money.
The idea of caste never existed in Original ManuSmriti. It was about Varna's. Any person can be of any varna. It's not decided by the family in which he or she takes birth. Every child went to Gurukul where he is trained and assessed to decide in which varna will he perform better. At a later point some malined people added Nepotism to the system as they started thinking that they are greater than others. And thus Caste System came into existence.
Adv.Sai Deepak is adorable.After seeing so many news of just insufficient research.This particular discussion is sufficient to understand that this is not a gender discrimination.The media and the respected Supreme court should understand the sensitivity of the issue.The true devotees who come very regularly for worship has been affected by this verdict.There are so many issues in our country to be addressed like poverty,abuses and even malnutrition in children etc . These so called activists just want media attention nothing else.I am not that religious but still I believe this verdict has affected men and even women,young as well old . Please don't create our land a battlefield.One should be humanist and not feminist . Please provide petitions to our Supreme court that will develop us to our true potential.These activists are wasting time,money and resources of our country which can be utilized for productive issues for the welfare of our nation.Thankyou
Yes..u are right..there are many issues to be discussed ..and why there is a question on sabarimala..most of the hindu women are aganist the verdict except some activist who need cheap publicity..but I doubt whether we win the case..the court measures everything based on gender descrimination.,equality etc..what do u think..can we expect a positive verdict...
As always, Sai Deepak is brilliant! Whats this Iqbal Ansari doing in a Hindu discussion? Why or how would he add any value or merit to this debate? All he did was observe, judge, and parrot one of 2 useless points. Will a Hindu or a Christian be allowed within a group of elite powerful mullas to debate political/religious practices of Islam? Why these biased-breaking-India-bulldog-intellectuals do not question ways, and methods of Christian and Islamic institutions, for eg? Why there are no women allowed in most of the mosques? Why there is no female priest in a Church? Why a female cant read Azaan 5 times a day sitting in a mosque booth screaming her throat out "ALAAAHH" with loud speakers? Why a woman priest cant bless sinners in the confession box of a church? Why a woman cant feed that thin white bread to all the sinned followers of Jesus Christ ? Everyone only has a problem with Hindus, temples and Bharaths Dharmic traditions? If Hindus don't wake up soon, these so called "sickular minorities" from across the subcontinent will invade our lives, homes and way of living. Wake up! These are huge alarm bells to realize the onslaught on our age old traditions. Invader is living next door, not across the border!
That's our secularism stunt. Applicable only to Hindus who will be deemed intolerant otherwise. In this 26 minute episode, that justice could barely come up with anything of substance and he spoke for less than a minute. What a joke! Its a sad today that the verdict has been passed in favor of these pseuoliberals.
Likewise, SC is Indian only, be it first, second or third. Not according to me. But the trend with SC has always been to meddle and poke at Hindu community, and its traditions. SC - be it whoever you want it to be - will never meddle with any Abrahamic institutions in India, on the contrary, SC protects Abrahamic traditions as they're protected behind the veil of 'Minorities' Assume much, do you ?
Restricting women from entering temples/church/Mosque violates fundamental right to pray and individual right to make decision whether to pray or not. So, good judgement. There are temples where only women are allowed. Activists (who are not feminists) should take up that matter too
@msc14111990 Is that why you prophet raped a 9 yr old and allowed the sex slavery like what ISIS is doing to yazidi girls. Not to mention the hideous practice of halala. Your koran is more or less a sex manual where you god lures you with 72 virgins in order for you dumbos to worship him. What a depraved perverted cult!
@msc14111990 had cows been that safe, the dairy Industry would have stopped flourishing. Humans think they are superior in rights to live and to freedom. The cow obsession perhaps lasts only in arguments online. In real life humans are the same everywhere. Self-obsessed, self family centered and have little empathy or awareness about other beings. I'm quite bored of reading these arguments that drags animals in it... Lol they don't even wanna be anywhere close to humans. They wanna live eat grass and roam around... Sad they were even domesticated... No animal is given right to freedom or care sorry... But even so called gau shalas sell milk if they have rescued a fertile cow. So please... Huamans are self obsessed and not animal obsessed... They only talk and rarely ever do anything.
Muslims are clever, they came up with rebuttal of mosque by definition is not a place of worship but a place of offering namaz, hence rule cant be applied to them
A fantastic discussion, I must applause! I must applaud the moderator who barely spoke except for the questions, and listened to the lengthy answers. I cannot fall short short in appreciating the advocate and the respected, former judge too. Nice, and justified! I'll keep watching!
Wow!! It's today for the first time I even got to hear the logic behind the local tradition and that too from a legal perspective.. something totally discarded by media.. Great work Sai Deepak!!
M a girl n truely get what mr Sai has pointed out..it's been so articulate..more power to you Sai Deepak.. you are fortunate to advocate lord Ayyappa 🙏
Basically the God says, " I'm gonna stay virgin forever till particular day arrives. Until then I'm staying in my house. Anyone can worship/meet me as long as the rule of my house is respected which is to practice my celibacy".
If the Deity is celibate and his wish is to maintain a distance from Women of a certain age surely his devotees should respect that wish ... where people don't want to respect the deity, they are clearly not devotees ... so why do they want to enter the temple?? Surely not to worship!!!
As per accepted chronology, Vedas came into existence first in Indus Valley; then, when the civilization expanded to Indrarastha and beyond to the Gangetic Valley, the two epics came to be written, and during the Gupta age, there was a renaissance of Hindu religion or sanatana dharmic religion actively encouraged by Guptas: during this age, Upanishads, Puranas and Shastras came to be written. The origin of this temple cannot be traced to the Vedic or the Gupta age or any such old age. It is much later and had remained unknown, obscure and remote in an inaccessible forest, worshiped by the locals. Kollywood villain actor, a malayalayee by birth, the late M N Nambiar caused the craze for this deity. He trained his junior actors under him as gurusamy. Actors started trekking to the temple and made it a fashion of the times; and the cinema crazy poor Tamils followed suit. Because before M N Nambiar's yeoman's service, hardly a few persons trekked. Thanks to the Tamil working classes, this temple became well known today. So, by no stretch of imagination, you can link this recent temple to Ithihasas, Puranas, Upanishads and Sastras. The story of Iyyappan is a recent imagination. No Purana, Sastra or ithiasa say a child was born to Shiva and Vishnu in a homosexual relationship. As you know, every modern temple needed a Sthala Purana of its own - which needs to be imagined and floated in order to hook a lot of devotees. A few decades ago, the owner of the popular hotel-chain Saravana Bhawan constructed a Vishnu temple in his native village and brought brahmin priests to work there. The brahmin priests have not written a sthala purana yet, but spread the story of miracles attached to the deity namely if you go and worship there, your prayer for a child will be fulfilled. Here the Sabarimalai priests imagined the birth of the deity and made it as a women-hating one and their imagination became the scriptures which the lawyer is ctiting here. These scriptures are not from the hoary past or part of the ancient tradition of the religion harking back to Indus or Gangetic Valley Civilisation, as you imagine conveniently. They are recent and authored by the Brahmins in charge of this forest temple.
Mr. Sai Deepak, I salute you for the knowledge you have about Sabarimala, India needs good citizens like you. Whatever you said in this clip is true 100%.
Autonomous decision is very important part of hindu dharma or ethics. This is a good judgement. Fundamental right to pray and individual right to make a decision whether to pray or not should be left to an individual.
I believe in some tradition, say dinkamatham, which says I have the right to kill non-believers... Does that give me the right to kill, because of my belief in the tradition? (In fact this is happening when IS kills the so called kafirs, interpreting scriptures the way they want). And nowhere is it written by Ayyappan to ban a particular age group women... Sai Deepak is the stupidest person I have seen on this planet.. nothing should stand above fundamental rights....
Anju S. Vasu You have the right to do as you wish as long as it's your property and you don't impose it / hurt / intentionally harm anyone. As simple as that.
No Doubt Ansari is manmohan singh 2 and sai is vivekananda 2 really u came to save hinduism as my brother said at one stage one will come to save hinduism
Ravikanth V Yes. It can. Reason why they won is nthng but lack of unity in hindus. Temple is a centre for devotees those who believe in the belief and customs related to the specific idol/devata (not god/eswar) of that temple. Nobody from outside has the right to question it unless - if the custom has lack of connection to hindu scriptures and basic ideals of particular diety. Or unless the custom shows a gross violation of human rights.
These bludy left feminists are western funded. They come in helicopters..hire costly advocates who charge 10 lacs per hour. They waste public money and energy of the state govrnments , doing havoc in the society ..hurting beliefs of millions...just for their publicity and hidden agendas.
We would never know if these kinds of arguments were made. In South India as there were not many invasion they were able to preserve many document on why the temple is a temple don't know if we have the same in other places like Shani Shingnapur.
Raj Kosaraju Yes we have that in whole india. temple worship theory is basically the same in whole of india. All temples basically follow same tantrik principles.
That is not true. Hindus are not homogeneous and the temples are not either. There are two major Shastras Vedic and Tantrik. There may be many more which I may not be aware of.
Salute Deepak, Pls save the great tradition, culture of Hinduism.. You are explaining so clear, even I can understand.. Love from small town in North India
I believe in some tradition, say dinkamatham, which says I have the right to kill non-believers... Does that give me the right to kill, because of my belief in the tradition? (In fact this is happening when IS kills the so called kafirs, interpreting scriptures the way they want). And nowhere is it written by Ayyappan to ban a particular age group women... Sai Deepak is the stupidest person I have seen on this planet.. nothing should stand above fundamental rights & principles of natural justice...
Anju S. Vasu Well, it seems you don't understand what the fundamental rights are. Sai Deepak is spot on. It is not violating any human rights. Its a place dedicated for believers who have faith in that tradition. No one is enforcing it on you. Your comparison of this tradition with apostate killing is just as stupid as saying paying homage to national flag during independence day should be rescinded since its only a tradition.
@@Hari_prasad1996 oh.. very nice.. I got your strategy now.. your copy pasted typical RSS comment says it all.. (in your other comment you very cleverly deleted when I pointed out the mistakes) You are banning someone's entry to a public property & you are saying you aren't violating any rights.. grow up man.. if you want to live a life of lie, I can't do anything about that... And I told you, there are so many devotees from all over India, not believing in this stupid tradition, but believing in the real God.. and their will to pray there is violated by people like you who are not willing to at least try to understand.. In the other message, I clearly pointed out the lies spread by Sai Deepak.. And you're saying he is spot on.. I get your strategy & your game.. I'm sorry.. I thought you were just an ignorant person who was willing to listen to different sides of it.. but no.. so, I'm not wasting any more time on you.. good bye..
The Truth about what Sai Deepak says... Dear Devotees/non-devotees/anyone who wants the truth, please read this & understand how you are being manipulated... On watching the first video, I thought he was just an idiot advocate.. But, on watching the 2nd one, I understood that he is not an idiot, but a manipulator.. First of all, let me point out the legal errors he blatantly make without any inhibition... 1. Art 27: Sai Deepak says that the Article prevents state from using tax money for religious purposes. This is wrong. Art 27 reads like this-No person shall be compelled to pay any taxes, the proceeds of which are “specifically appropriated” in payment of expenses for the promotion or maintenance of any particular religion or religious denomination. The term “specifically” indicates that no tax can be made specifically in the name of any worship place. (Tax is that which is imposed, the appropriation of which is approved by the Parliament in its sessions.) It does not say that tax money cannot be used to finance worship places. Art 27: indiankanoon.org/doc/211413/ This is how, tax money can be used to finance the administration of Sabarimala in the form of Devaswom Board. If you think by basic logic, how can an unconstitutional Article continue to exist in the Constitution in the form of Art 290A - which says “A sum of forty six lakhs and fifty thousand rupees shall be charged on, and paid out of, the Consolidated Fund of the State of Kerala every year to the Travancore Devaswom Fund”. Art 290A: www.indianconstitution.in/2016/07/article-290a-constitution-of-india.html Also, another lie he said on this front was that Kerala Govt takes money from the temple more than it gives. This is an absurd argument which was propagated by the BJP in Kerala until two years ago, which was broken by the then MLA V.D.Satheesan openly in the media. If you understand Malayalam watch the video below. ruclips.net/video/sLPVqr3kNJQ/видео.html The above facts are known to each & every advocate & anyone who has learnt Constitution well. You can check with any neutral advocate/legal practitioner. This is why I am damn sure that he is a manipulator. 2. Art 25 gives the freedom of conscience & free profession, practice & propagation of religion. And it also says in Art 25(2)(b) that nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of Hindus. You can clearly see that this article reduces the scope of religious freedom by throwing open all Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes & sections (I hope you understand this includes women of any age) 3. It does not say in any place in the Constitution that something written in scriptures can be allowed to continue in the name of religious freedom. So the rest of his arguments on the deity don’t have any value as to the rights guaranteed by the Constitution are concerned. And although it doesn’t matter as far as Constitution is concerned, I am telling you, there are no scriptures which tell Ayyappa is a Naishtika Brahmachari. This is a myth created by the pretend devotees who has their own devious motives behind it. You will understand this if you watch any discussion conducted in Malayalam TV channels where historians talk about this. It is available in RUclips as well. For eg. The speech of Sunil P. Ilayidom. He is known for his writings and lectures on politics, literature, art and culture and is a recipient of the Kerala Sahitya Akademi Award. Moral: People will use your ignorance in certain things to fool you in many ways as everyone doesn’t need to study Constitution to the depth in which any advocate has to study it. So, it is easy to manipulate you. Please understand the reality behind every argument by consulting with the ones you can trust & the ones who know about the matter. Not the manipulators like Sai Deepak & Rahul Easwar.
@@hhnandu tht way women should be allowed to go to mosque?women n men should pray together in mosque, everyone should say vande mataram irrespective of wht religion thy belong. Right
The ultimate aim of Brahmacharya as per hinduism is to reach genderless identity of the genderless soul plane by transcending the gender consciousness ! For that purpose , the aspirant(he or she ) temporarily stays away from opposite gender physically or mentally or through either ways. The aim of brahmachari ie Soul plane, is considered as a plane of total equality and homogeneity. So now , how can a spiritual discipline done in the spirit of transcending gender idea can be gender discrimination ?!!!!
First lets try to understand gender discriminstion. Hinduism if at all it exists as a relegion is much more complex than just saying one god, one prophet or one book. Its about urself, ur relation with the society and ur 1 to 1 relation with Almighty. said that as per vedic culture, sex is mainly for progeny. man gives the seed and woman bares the seed and gives birth. both man and woman need to bring up the child together. but no matter what any modren day feminists say , a man can have sex and deny the child so he dosnt need to take responsibilty. but can a woman hide her pregnancy and deny the child is hers? The man can go around and have sex with 10 woman if all 10 women are pregnant means there are 10 children. but if that man denies all 10 children, they have to grow up with no father. on the other hand,, if 1 woman goes and have sex with 10 men again, all 10 men can deny the child but that woman is still pregnant and dont know who the father is. So the child has to grow up with no father. with DNA technology u can find but still that man shuld be available and should take responsibility. Said that is one of the reasons why society has put more restrictions on women. It is not relegious rather socio economic reason envidoned by ancient sages. now comingv to relegiocity in vedic culture, woman was not really required to do anyworship to any diety. if she serves her husband thats enough. where as man has to toil and take care of the woman. not only that, he has to do spiritual practises snd merits he gained through practises automatically 50% goes to wife. The main reason marriage institution created in vedic culture was to benefit mainly woman and protect children. so relegion did not discriminate woman. do u know how many single mothers suffere in developed countries? do u know how many children are orphans in so called developed countries? inspite of so called developed why do these things happen? thats one aspect why in many ancient and vedic cultures women were treated differently, not to supress them but to protect them and protect the society.. but now the times changed and woman are becoming equal with men, still women are the only one who can give birth. man can deny and escape. but women can not deny the child, when she does too then its double jeopardy for the child. So before beating drums about gender discrimination we have to contemplate why sages laid out certain rules guidelines etc. Ofcourse people alwayz abuse laws to their advantage thats different story. if u agree with my argument on gender discrimination i can elaborate more on specfic topic of ayappa temple.
American At Heart But really i didnt get ur point. brahmacharya is a spiritual practice. I think, Differentiation done in that regard is not discrimination.
@@MrPhorus The summary of my comment was, many differentiation we find or appear as dicrimination did not have malicious intents to begin with. But as the time passed, people abused, also socital dynamics changed but many could/did not re-adjust accordingly. Where did I say anything about Braham charya?
#ready to wait .please learn about ayyappa first and then make up about your discrimination. I am an ayyappa devotee and a woman in the restricted age. In kerala some ladies have their initials have a female name their mothers name as initials . Let india give this choice to her daughters and be an example to the whole world ie true equality, i will fully support that . But this no . Dont we feel insulted when the western world based on ignorance judges india as a land of elephants and snakes?The same way we feel when rest of india without even a bit of effort makes a judgement on our dear ayyapa at sabarimala. Not even a single english media covered the fact that at sabarimala there is a mosque where ayyappa devotees have to worship. That is y so many muslim women too joined the procession at pandalam, can u find any other deity in india who is so beloved by all
after listening to the arguments of Mr Sai Deepak, I wonder how the supreme court take a decision otherwise. this is a clear example of how flawed and susceptible our judicial system is. nevertheless we should keep continuing to laud our supreme court as the ultimate authority and have trust in our constitution. Keep talking facts and be logical till the objective is achieved. Thats the best anyone can do.
Sai Deepak's knowledge that surely has come out of the research he has done on the subject is commendable. He is way ahead of the the legal luminaries that we see on tv every day. We will see great things come out his hat in days to come
What advocate Deepak said is absolutely correct. There is no question about discrimination between men and women on the basis of what advocate Deepak beautifully explained..
Thanks to NewsX for having this objective debate. I have watched keenly the debates on the same topic by other channels but I am afraid no one has been able to debate this with facts and research.
Sai Deepak please try and take up TTD(TIRUMALA TIRUPATHI DEVASTHANAM)head priest for generations Ramana dhikshitulu garus case,where he was thrown out for exposing gold being stolen from temple by the politicians
@@pvinayagam52 can a man get admission in colleges like Lady shri Ram?? Isn't that discrimination? You are not listening the points made by advocate..when you have already made up your mind,there is no point of debating..
Not correct. Colleges are not fanatical and rigid in their admission policy. When there are many colleges for boys, for conservative families, it is necessary to open a college for girls. If the colleges for boys don't get adequate intake - in consecutive years, the colleges will go unisex, inviting girls. Or, for some other reasons like in our times when women become equal in every sphere, or, we must help in women education and so, it is better to allow them. On this reason, St Stephan which was boys only college, for more than 100 years, is now co-ed college. My own college, which was boys college, began to admit girls; so also, my higher secondary school. Because the neighbour hood parents complained that their girls had to travel more than five km to reach their all girls college. They requested that our college became co-ed. It did. In future, same may happen to Lady Sriram also. If there is a legitimate and reasonable demand, Lady Sriram will take boys. In other words, colleges do not discriminate between men and women. The admission policy is based on present circumstances, not on ancient scriptures. They move with times happily. They are therefore not fundamentalists. Here, Sabarimalai refuses to move with times.
If it is proved in court that since the establishment of that temple,women weren't allowed because of celibate nature of diety ,not because women are considered low or anything else..will it be okay for you? Because it will be okay by constitution to not disturb the fundamental practice..
@@pvinayagam52 moving with time is not a point here..women were always the part of religious activities..They sit along with men in yagya..They can go to temples of shiva,Ram,krishna or any other temple..discrimination is not a point. This tradition isn't harming anybody.If a woman believe in our tradition, she won't go into the temple..the she doesn't believe in tradition,why does she want to visit the temple?? This tradition isnt like sati pratha or parda system which need to be abolished.
A great discussion Sai Deepak has thought matters to depth and presented them in a cogent logical and matter-of-fact manner Most informative and educative Glad to be belonging to the same institution - IIT kharagpur though decades apart A young man thinking far beyond his years
Brilliant argument from this gentleman. Hats off to him mainly media and ill fate knowledge individuals have to create an unnecessary stir on this matter.
Iqbal Ansari, Former Chief Justice of Patna High Court @25:27 "As you have put it rightly, it is not a simple question of gender discrimination, it is far graver than that” (almost verbatim)
Megh, Ansari had no business to make such judgement unless he talks of same thing about women in his religion. Constitution seems to have no say about churches and mosques. It is only meant to attack Hindu beliefs. Leave Hindu temples alone. We Hindu women are not being subjected to any discrimination.
Sudha Shastri - Oh is that so? Who made you the voice of Hindu women? Stop self-anointing and please offer your insight on the following - The whole argument offered by Sai Deepak is intellectually dishonest. If celibacy requires an environment free of opposite sex, then why is Maalikapurathamma temple within Sabarimala an exception, given that she is also a celibate by way of her eternal wait for Ayyappan (as a consequence of his holy promise)?? Isn't that a double standard? Men can be the pujaris for Maalikapurathamma temple, men can enter as devotees there, but somehow women cannot?? So, moral of the story is when argument based on menstruation was not successful, they cooked up the whole argument based on celibacy - which also is weak as seen above! Farcical lawyers!
@@vaishakmuralidharan7605 Do you want to go to Sabarimala? Is that it? My argument was about courts interfering in Hindu religious beliefs but not daring to raise their voice about other religions! That is it! Anything else is moot.
I am also impressed by the very calm honourable judge who has asked very good and intelligent questions with the intention of understanding this entire argument given by Adv. Sai Deepak.
Celibacy is essential in preserving the Semen from falling to the ground or flowing down as this hinders the spiritual growth, It is called Urthvarethas, Meaning that the semen flows upwards through the Chakras in the body to reach the Sahasrara in the head, This Celibacy is called Naishtika Brahmacharrya.(not allowing the semen to flow down) Bhishma is a Naishtika Brahmachari.He is the only Naishtika Brahmachari, apart from Hanuman. Thank god... atleast the Management of Lord Hanuman temples dont play with innocent devotees like these people do
This is the best debate regarding this topic..in all other news channels the host becomes so biased never give chance to the person opposing his ideas..sai deepak..you nailed every point you said..and the justice sitting opposite was also patient enough to listen ..
That must be true,sai can't lose this case.Those judges made up their mind before they hear any argument.Those judges needed to punish fr the violation of law.
Dumb public who ask for entry of every women irrespective of their age or physical capability / status should use their intelligence and knowledge like this Young Lawyer before jumping to blind conclusions. Traditions in good tastes are not to be opposed.
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Sai Deepak you are undoubtedly the Superman of the entire Sabarimala Issue way to go. The "Deity's own advocate". He is God Sent.
I salute Sai Deepak for his clear arguments in defending Hindu Dharma.
He lost the case.
P Vinayagam Not because his arguments were flawed, but because the verdict was supported by the affidavit from the frickin commie Kerala govt.
It is strange justification for loss.
he is still alive incase ,sai deepak will win by blessings of Ayyappa
The whole argument offered by Sai Deepak is intellectually dishonest. If celibacy requires an environment free of opposite sex, then why is Maalikapurathamma temple within Sabarimala an exception, given that she is also a celibate by way of her eternal wait for Ayyappan (as a consequence of his holy promise)?? Isn't that a double standard? Men can be the pujaris for Maalikapurathamma temple, men can enter as devotees there, but somehow women cannot?? So, moral of the story is when argument based on menstruation was not successful, they cooked up the whole argument based on celibacy - which also is weak as seen above! Farcical lawyers!
As a girl, I have felt spiritually lord Ayyappa.he is for everyone but if we are true Ayyappa bhakthas then we should respect & follow his needhis. Painful request🙏🏻
I totally accept it. As you said everyone has to follow the rules even the men. According to tradition maladharanam has to be done in sori muthu ayannar koil near Tirunelveli, but majority don't. Why should only women have the onus to follow the tradition. Both genders have equal responsibility of protecting the tradition.
@@naturalselection71 Kumari Amman Temple In Kanyakumari, Mata Temple In Bihar, Attukal Bhagavathy Temple In Kerala, Kamakhya Temple In Andhra Pradesh are some of the temples in India where only women are allowed and not men
@@user-vh1gc1ct6z I am not questioning your belief system. I am talking in context to the temple of Sabarimala. Women not allowed is one of the rules. Some of the rules for men are as follows.
1) the mala which every Ayappa devotee wears during the mandalam has to be received from Sori Muthu Ayanar temple near Tirunelveli. How many do that?
2) every devotee has to walk from his house to the temple of Sabarimala. I think 99% of men don't do that.
3) I have personally seen some devotees observing the Viradh only for 3 days where as it should be 41 days.
There are so many rules for people before going to Temple. It is all specified in boothanatha upakyanam. I know 99% of the bakths don't follow.
My question is why so much uproar when women do not follow and no noise when men astray from these rules.
@@naturalselection71 in bharat, there are no gods only deities. every devotee had a right to devote his/her own deity. and even today we have that right In the same. some devotees started worshiping Thier own deity ayyappa. and they constructed a shelter for Thier deity. and they decided that Thier deity should be ashkalita brahmachari so the deity cannot even see young women between 10 to 50 yes the temple is a public property and every devotee has a right to visit that temple but let's compare it with other example my country belong to every citizen of my country it's a public property some people of my country decided that Jana gana mana as national anthem. as my nation is public property I want to change national anthem as "Pakistan jinadabad bharat murdabad"why I can't do that what is the difference between these two cases if you want to devote you can devote any deity and visit any temple or you can create your own deity and build your own temple but if you want to devote a specific deity at specific temple you have to respect the regulations of that place
@@Nation-Fashion Buddy, did you even read the message fully. I am not questioning your belief.what I am saying is if women should follow the rules regarding Sabarimala temple, then men should also follow the rules regarding Ayappan temple. Please read another comment of mine which says some of the rules for men related to Sabarimala and how 99 percent of men dont do
that. It seems you are not reading the full message so, I will specify one of the rules specified in boothanatha upakyanam. Actually all the devotees should walk from their home. Tell me how many men do that?
wooow Sai is much younger to me.. and I am just becoming "natmastak" to his pure genius ... May maa bharti and Dharma itself bless him for this Dharm Yudhh
So called women rights activists has curbed the issue totally just for fame and publicity. These days feminism is on its high so it doesn't mean that every such issue is related with women rights. At least think twice before you destroy tradition of such temples for just fame. I'm a woman and I totally agree with J sai Deepak.
You're absolutely correct today feminism is like a symbol of fashion.
Hi sister pragya thank u for ur humble support I am a asstprofessor at gvt college ..here I need to state that the sabarimala is holy place where the custom made like this this feminist are thinking hw to destroy the social living of families they haven't any life themselves ..this mensurational women can't go up the hill peak with on ..it's physical ly not possible ..sister I believe u got it plz visit our Kerala give support our sabrimala ..if there is good brother there is no need of feminist ,,as a brother can protect and respect our sisters thanku bye all is well
Thanks for the support frnd
Finally a hope..all women are not feminazi
I am very happy to girl supporting the issue...funny part is that, people who does not believe got and doesn't go to temple want equal rights in temple..
They actually don't have any idea why this tradition is applicable for only this ayyappa temple...what you said is absolutely true...
Till yesterday I felt Hindus in Kerala were making baseless idiotic arguments and feminists were right. One video of this man and everything falls into place. PEOPLE SHOULD HOLD THEIR EMOTIONS BACK AND TRY TO MAKE A LOGICAL CLAIM. J SAI 😘😘
I believe in some tradition, say dinkamatham, which says I have the right to kill non-believers... Does that give me the right to kill, because of my belief in the tradition? (In fact this is happening when IS kills the so called kafirs, interpreting scriptures the way they want). And nowhere is it written by Ayyappan to ban a particular age group women... Sai Deepak is the stupidest person I have seen on this planet.. nothing should stand above fundamental rights....
@@hhnanduNobody is banning women, infact there is no ban. Women themselves decide not to go to temple during periods. What he is saying makes sense and if you listen carefully even he admits the ban on the age group is uneccessary and flexibility should be brought in.
@@hhnandu This entire issue is a lot complicated than it seems, fundamental rights are important but when it comes to religion traditions customs and beliefs matter a lots because religion cannot be explained by scientific facts and logic. Hinduism has a lot of spiritual fundamentals, many even the believers themselves do not know of this and are blindly following traditions and giving it more importance than the faith itself.
@@bvn4680 did he say that banning is unnecessary? May be in the 2nd part. I didn't realise there was a second part to this..
There is something more I want to say.. I don't know what's your take on this..
In yellama temple (Karnataka) and in many other temples in South & North-east, there is a tradition called "devadasi".. According to this, the deity shall have a girl/woman (age around 6-30) to be dedicated to the temple..
So, the impoverished dalit people who are unable to take care of their girl children dedicate their kids to the temple at the age of even 3-4..
After some years, most of them are found roaming the streets as sex workers.. (According to NHRC report,2006, nearly half of them ended up as sex workers)
So, what I'm saying is that, the deity's wish as people glorify here, need not be right all the time.. it should pass the test of fundamental rights.. here, banning women of a particular age is clearly discrimination.. which shall not be allowed to continue...
Reformers have always challenged such practices.. that's how we made a society where women are empowered at least to this position..
Please don't support discrimination on the basis of a God you have never heard saying that.. I am really feeling sad when people place an age old tradition which have no logical basis before "other human beings "...
@@bvn4680 and when such an issue reaches the court & gives a progressive verdict, we shall not think of going back again.. "principle of non-retrogression of rights" as endorsed by SC itself..
That's it...... I am gonna become a lawyer....
wow Awesome inspirations
haha awesome bro.
Wait bro think about it.. Being a lawyer is not that easy
Swamiye saranamayappa 🙏🙏
He came to our college 😀😃
Which college?
Shijin PS swami sharanam
@P Vinayagam The one you wont be interested in.
@Shijin PS Swami Sharanam, Etta.
Sai Deepak is doing great service to his profession and Bharat 🙏..we need more such people ..
Sai is logical, Any person who has some common sense will get it.
If one is determined not to get convinced and have a prejudiced mind what to do ?.. That is what has happened so far even Institutions support all these things in the name of modernity and liberal values
Sai Deepak..... The Gods advocate
God needs advocates ? Which is that weak God?
P Vinayagam Its kaliyuga brother...
@@pvinayagam52 every god needs advocate thats why adhan is held by mullas 5 times.
Islam and Hindu religion are different.
P Vinayagam Ya.... Its different... Islam is for terrorists
A deeply knowledgeable Hindu Judge would have been a better choice for this discussion, to add Life and Light and further clarification to the lay audience. As it is, Sri Sai Deepak alone has to clarify everything , which effort on his part is laudable and admirable. Others are mere show pieces.
No aspersions on Justice Ansari .
Justice Ansari represents a common India. Most Hindus are like common Indians: they don't know about their religion and need to be told
Deeply knowledgeable Hindu will be boring. What's there for him to speak?
No right thinking Hindu woman would ever challenge the norm. Those doing it are doing so for sheer mischief.
I am a woman and I won't enter sabarimala till I reach the age.. j respect my culture .. I am so saddened by all the drama going on with the sabarimala.. Why bring feminism into this .. facepalm
@@enerconints2148 me too
I will not enter even if they allow but I guess if some women are so desperate to pray I think we should let them....assuming they are doing it with sheer nobility to pray
Exactly
I'm surely not the "right thinking Hindu woman"
More power to Adv. Deepak 👌👌
Tarun Nangia should have the basic etiquette of NOT interrupting Sai Deepak while making important points.
To fulfil your wishes, neither Nangia nor Ansari should be present. Indeed there're many videos released by the lawyer where he spoke solo. You can watch them, where he reiterates all the points he makes here.
@@pvinayagam52 you are as ignorant as pappu. Why don't you try watching discussions on Rajya Sabha TV?
I don't have TV in my room. I've only internet. I've subscribed to hotstar for sports channels. I watch youtube for music and film songs. Occasionaly, I come across such discussions here. Ok. This is enough about me. Now tell me why cant we change a tradition which is against Hindu women?
@@pvinayagam52 if you have listened carefully to Sai Deepak's arguments and still asking stupid questions then even Ayyappa can't help you.
First of all, I don't need a deity which hates to see my mother, wife, sister and daughter. Why should I need that deity? Next, my questions may appear to be stupid because you have a close mind but they are valid. The scriptures under which the deity is treated as a celibate, are not ancient. You cant go to Vedas or Puranas to seek its validity. The deity and all that stories connected with it, are bringing disrepute and shame to Hindu religion. This is an age which does not treat menstruating women as polluted and unclean beings. I am sorry. I've no business to do either with such a deity or with men who defend the deity. Have a good sleep. Goodbye
I believe the devotees who go to Sabarimala also observe brahmacharya during the period of fast and prayer. The people who wants to push this feminist agenda are not devotees because if they were, they would respect the traditions of the temple itself.
Correctly told
Tradition is vital and shouldn't be abandon or overlooked... Dharma of Religion
Bro if any female devotee tries to enter sabarimala premises they will lock the main door
@@nathanmanju5232 why u still dont understand
the deity is brahmachari!!
Sai Deepak - Super intelligence. Admire this guy and his talk, confidence.
That is the quality of Parasaran’s advocates 👍🏼
Very sad.. Hindus this shows the lack of unity in us and lack of our knowledge about the history of our culture.. we really need to teach out next generation everything about our religion..
Seriously Christian and Muslims have. We need it badly. We r getting sperated. One day hindhuism will become a taboo. I fear for that day
Exactly
Less than 5% girls were actually demanding that. Rest 95% are against it. Those 5% girls are either politically or ideologically motivated and are the victims of so called modernization. They are PseudoDevotees who are either doing it for fame or for money.
True that hindus lack it only becoz of some cheguve ra followers.. they want all to become athiests by destroying our temples and culture..
The idea of caste never existed in Original ManuSmriti. It was about Varna's. Any person can be of any varna. It's not decided by the family in which he or she takes birth. Every child went to Gurukul where he is trained and assessed to decide in which varna will he perform better. At a later point some malined people added Nepotism to the system as they started thinking that they are greater than others. And thus Caste System came into existence.
Not allowing men in train's ladies coach is not discrimination against men.
Adv.Sai Deepak is adorable.After seeing so many news of just insufficient research.This particular discussion is sufficient to understand that this is not a gender discrimination.The media and the respected Supreme court should understand the sensitivity of the issue.The true devotees who come very regularly for worship has been affected by this verdict.There are so many issues in our country to be addressed like poverty,abuses and even malnutrition in children etc . These so called activists just want media attention nothing else.I am not that religious but still I believe this verdict has affected men and even women,young as well old . Please don't create our land a battlefield.One should be humanist and not feminist . Please provide petitions to our Supreme court that will develop us to our true potential.These activists are wasting time,money and resources of our country which can be utilized for productive issues for the welfare of our nation.Thankyou
Yes..u are right..there are many issues to be discussed ..and why there is a question on sabarimala..most of the hindu women are aganist the verdict except some activist who need cheap publicity..but I doubt whether we win the case..the court measures everything based on gender descrimination.,equality etc..what do u think..can we expect a positive verdict...
I appreciate this anchor is patient enough to here the gust talk and able to understand
As always, Sai Deepak is brilliant!
Whats this Iqbal Ansari doing in a Hindu discussion? Why or how would he add any value or merit to this debate? All he did was observe, judge, and parrot one of 2 useless points.
Will a Hindu or a Christian be allowed within a group of elite powerful mullas to debate political/religious practices of Islam?
Why these biased-breaking-India-bulldog-intellectuals do not question ways, and methods of Christian and Islamic institutions, for eg?
Why there are no women allowed in most of the mosques? Why there is no female priest in a Church?
Why a female cant read Azaan 5 times a day sitting in a mosque booth screaming her throat out "ALAAAHH" with loud speakers?
Why a woman priest cant bless sinners in the confession box of a church? Why a woman cant feed that thin white bread to all the sinned followers of Jesus Christ ?
Everyone only has a problem with Hindus, temples and Bharaths Dharmic traditions?
If Hindus don't wake up soon, these so called "sickular minorities" from across the subcontinent will invade our lives, homes and way of living.
Wake up! These are huge alarm bells to realize the onslaught on our age old traditions. Invader is living next door, not across the border!
That's our secularism stunt. Applicable only to Hindus who will be deemed intolerant otherwise. In this 26 minute episode, that justice could barely come up with anything of substance and he spoke for less than a minute. What a joke! Its a sad today that the verdict has been passed in favor of these pseuoliberals.
You are right.
He's indian first.According to you SC can't give jurisdiction if it involves christian and muslims issue since they are all Hindus(assuming)
Likewise, SC is Indian only, be it first, second or third.
Not according to me. But the trend with SC has always been to meddle and poke at Hindu community, and its traditions. SC - be it whoever you want it to be - will never meddle with any Abrahamic institutions in India, on the contrary, SC protects Abrahamic traditions as they're protected behind the veil of 'Minorities'
Assume much, do you ?
Restricting women from entering temples/church/Mosque violates fundamental right to pray and individual right to make decision whether to pray or not. So, good judgement. There are temples where only women are allowed. Activists (who are not feminists) should take up that matter too
first time in my life i have listened carefully untill last second..good debate and #RespectCulture
what an impeccable speech from Mr. SAI....Thank very much for expressing our Hindu tradtion and culture...
If it is broad spectrum, the judgement should be applicable to all religions, not just Hindu dharma why this dichotomy
@msc14111990 Is that why you prophet raped a 9 yr old and allowed the sex slavery like what ISIS is doing to yazidi girls. Not to mention the hideous practice of halala. Your koran is more or less a sex manual where you god lures you with 72 virgins in order for you dumbos to worship him. What a depraved perverted cult!
@msc14111990 had cows been that safe, the dairy Industry would have stopped flourishing. Humans think they are superior in rights to live and to freedom. The cow obsession perhaps lasts only in arguments online. In real life humans are the same everywhere. Self-obsessed, self family centered and have little empathy or awareness about other beings. I'm quite bored of reading these arguments that drags animals in it... Lol they don't even wanna be anywhere close to humans. They wanna live eat grass and roam around... Sad they were even domesticated... No animal is given right to freedom or care sorry... But even so called gau shalas sell milk if they have rescued a fertile cow. So please... Huamans are self obsessed and not animal obsessed... They only talk and rarely ever do anything.
Muslims are clever, they came up with rebuttal of mosque by definition is not a place of worship but a place of offering namaz, hence rule cant be applied to them
A fantastic discussion, I must applause! I must applaud the moderator who barely spoke except for the questions, and listened to the lengthy answers. I cannot fall short short in appreciating the advocate and the respected, former judge too. Nice, and justified! I'll keep watching!
mindblowing argument by Sai Deepak...
Sai Deepak thanks for speaking on behalf of us.
Wow!! It's today for the first time I even got to hear the logic behind the local tradition and that too from a legal perspective.. something totally discarded by media.. Great work Sai Deepak!!
India will be a developed nation the day news republic conducts debates like these.
M a girl n truely get what mr Sai has pointed out..it's been so articulate..more power to you Sai Deepak.. you are fortunate to advocate lord Ayyappa 🙏
As usual sai Deepak is excellent
Basically the God says, " I'm gonna stay virgin forever till particular day arrives. Until then I'm staying in my house. Anyone can worship/meet me as long as the rule of my house is respected which is to practice my celibacy".
If the Deity is celibate and his wish is to maintain a distance from Women of a certain age surely his devotees should respect that wish ... where people don't want to respect the deity, they are clearly not devotees ... so why do they want to enter the temple?? Surely not to worship!!!
The deity did not say so. It was men who wrote as if the deity wished against women.
+P Vinayagam - Not true! Look at the Shastra, Puranas and Ithihasa
As per accepted chronology, Vedas came into existence first in Indus Valley; then, when the civilization expanded to Indrarastha and beyond to the Gangetic Valley, the two epics came to be written, and during the Gupta age, there was a renaissance of Hindu religion or sanatana dharmic religion actively encouraged by Guptas: during this age, Upanishads, Puranas and Shastras came to be written. The origin of this temple cannot be traced to the Vedic or the Gupta age or any such old age. It is much later and had remained unknown, obscure and remote in an inaccessible forest, worshiped by the locals. Kollywood villain actor, a malayalayee by birth, the late M N Nambiar caused the craze for this deity. He trained his junior actors under him as gurusamy. Actors started trekking to the temple and made it a fashion of the times; and the cinema crazy poor Tamils followed suit. Because before M N Nambiar's yeoman's service, hardly a few persons trekked.
Thanks to the Tamil working classes, this temple became well known today. So, by no stretch of imagination, you can link this recent temple to Ithihasas, Puranas, Upanishads and Sastras. The story of Iyyappan is a recent imagination. No Purana, Sastra or ithiasa say a child was born to Shiva and Vishnu in a homosexual relationship. As you know, every modern temple needed a Sthala Purana of its own - which needs to be imagined and floated in order to hook a lot of devotees. A few decades ago, the owner of the popular hotel-chain Saravana Bhawan constructed a Vishnu temple in his native village and brought brahmin priests to work there. The brahmin priests have not written a sthala purana yet, but spread the story of miracles attached to the deity namely if you go and worship there, your prayer for a child will be fulfilled. Here the Sabarimalai priests imagined the birth of the deity and made it as a women-hating one and their imagination became the scriptures which the lawyer is ctiting here. These scriptures are not from the hoary past or part of the ancient tradition of the religion harking back to Indus or Gangetic Valley Civilisation, as you imagine conveniently. They are recent and authored by the Brahmins in charge of this forest temple.
Even Pampa river has flooded now ... restricting access to the temple ... this is a divine sign!
Nithya Atmeshwaran
y r u mixing natural camity and ayyappa...please hav sum sense 🙄
Beautiful argument bro...
Excellent explanation - spread awareness of the Hindu Dharma and make the dummies understand
Mr. Sai Deepak, I salute you for the knowledge you have about Sabarimala, India needs good citizens like you. Whatever you said in this clip is true 100%.
Watch again from 21:46..what an argument by Adv Sai Deepak .hatsoff. Sensible point.
Deepak is so logical
Autonomous decision is very important part of hindu dharma or ethics. This is a good judgement. Fundamental right to pray and individual right to make a decision whether to pray or not should be left to an individual.
I believe in some tradition, say dinkamatham, which says I have the right to kill non-believers... Does that give me the right to kill, because of my belief in the tradition? (In fact this is happening when IS kills the so called kafirs, interpreting scriptures the way they want). And nowhere is it written by Ayyappan to ban a particular age group women... Sai Deepak is the stupidest person I have seen on this planet.. nothing should stand above fundamental rights....
Anju S. Vasu You have the right to do as you wish as long as it's your property and you don't impose it / hurt / intentionally harm anyone. As simple as that.
Only for Deepak sir. Hat's off
I appreciate the anchor how he is asking for clarification again and again so that the viewers can get the exact view of the speakers.
Man !! Congratulations NewsX. You have held the bull by the horn. No nonsense , only fact !
No Doubt Ansari is manmohan singh 2 and sai is vivekananda 2 really u came to save hinduism as my brother said at one stage one will come to save hinduism
Can we make similar arguments for Shani Shingnapur where the tradition was broken.
Ravikanth V Yes. It can. Reason why they won is nthng but lack of unity in hindus.
Temple is a centre for devotees those who believe in the belief and customs related to the specific idol/devata (not god/eswar) of that temple. Nobody from outside has the right to question it unless - if the custom has lack of connection to hindu scriptures and basic ideals of particular diety.
Or unless the custom shows a gross violation of human rights.
These bludy left feminists are western funded. They come in helicopters..hire costly advocates who charge 10 lacs per hour. They waste public money and energy of the state govrnments , doing havoc in the society ..hurting beliefs of millions...just for their publicity and hidden agendas.
We would never know if these kinds of arguments were made. In South India as there were not many invasion they were able to preserve many document on why the temple is a temple don't know if we have the same in other places like Shani Shingnapur.
Raj Kosaraju Yes we have that in whole india. temple worship theory is basically the same in whole of india. All temples basically follow same tantrik principles.
That is not true. Hindus are not homogeneous and the temples are not either. There are two major Shastras Vedic and Tantrik. There may be many more which I may not be aware of.
Salute Deepak, Pls save the great tradition, culture of Hinduism.. You are explaining so clear, even I can understand.. Love from small town in North India
Well said... Wonderful
Salute Sai Deepak 👍
I believe in some tradition, say dinkamatham, which says I have the right to kill non-believers... Does that give me the right to kill, because of my belief in the tradition? (In fact this is happening when IS kills the so called kafirs, interpreting scriptures the way they want). And nowhere is it written by Ayyappan to ban a particular age group women... Sai Deepak is the stupidest person I have seen on this planet.. nothing should stand above fundamental rights & principles of natural justice...
Anju S. Vasu Well, it seems you don't understand what the fundamental rights are. Sai Deepak is spot on. It is not violating any human rights. Its a place dedicated for believers who have faith in that tradition. No one is enforcing it on you. Your comparison of this tradition with apostate killing is just as stupid as saying paying homage to national flag during independence day should be rescinded since its only a tradition.
@@Hari_prasad1996 oh.. very nice.. I got your strategy now.. your copy pasted typical RSS comment says it all.. (in your other comment you very cleverly deleted when I pointed out the mistakes)
You are banning someone's entry to a public property & you are saying you aren't violating any rights.. grow up man.. if you want to live a life of lie, I can't do anything about that... And I told you, there are so many devotees from all over India, not believing in this stupid tradition, but believing in the real God.. and their will to pray there is violated by people like you who are not willing to at least try to understand..
In the other message, I clearly pointed out the lies spread by Sai Deepak.. And you're saying he is spot on.. I get your strategy & your game.. I'm sorry.. I thought you were just an ignorant person who was willing to listen to different sides of it.. but no.. so, I'm not wasting any more time on you.. good bye..
The Truth about what Sai Deepak says...
Dear Devotees/non-devotees/anyone who wants the truth, please read this & understand how you are being manipulated...
On watching the first video, I thought he was just an idiot advocate..
But, on watching the 2nd one, I understood that he is not an idiot, but a manipulator..
First of all, let me point out the legal errors he blatantly make without any inhibition...
1. Art 27: Sai Deepak says that the Article prevents state from using tax money for religious purposes.
This is wrong. Art 27 reads like this-No person shall be compelled to pay any taxes, the proceeds of which are “specifically appropriated” in payment of expenses for the promotion or maintenance of any particular religion or religious denomination.
The term “specifically” indicates that no tax can be made specifically in the name of any worship place. (Tax is that which is imposed, the appropriation of which is approved by the Parliament in its sessions.) It does not say that tax money cannot be used to finance worship places.
Art 27: indiankanoon.org/doc/211413/
This is how, tax money can be used to finance the administration of Sabarimala in the form of Devaswom Board. If you think by basic logic, how can an unconstitutional Article continue to exist in the Constitution in the form of Art 290A - which says “A sum of forty six lakhs and fifty thousand rupees shall be charged on, and paid out of, the Consolidated Fund of the State of Kerala every year to the Travancore Devaswom Fund”.
Art 290A: www.indianconstitution.in/2016/07/article-290a-constitution-of-india.html
Also, another lie he said on this front was that Kerala Govt takes money from the temple more than it gives. This is an absurd argument which was propagated by the BJP in Kerala until two years ago, which was broken by the then MLA V.D.Satheesan openly in the media. If you understand Malayalam watch the video below.
ruclips.net/video/sLPVqr3kNJQ/видео.html
The above facts are known to each & every advocate & anyone who has learnt Constitution well. You can check with any neutral advocate/legal practitioner. This is why I am damn sure that he is a manipulator.
2. Art 25 gives the freedom of conscience & free profession, practice & propagation of religion.
And it also says in Art 25(2)(b) that nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of Hindus.
You can clearly see that this article reduces the scope of religious freedom by throwing open all Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes & sections (I hope you understand this includes women of any age)
3. It does not say in any place in the Constitution that something written in scriptures can be allowed to continue in the name of religious freedom. So the rest of his arguments on the deity don’t have any value as to the rights guaranteed by the Constitution are concerned.
And although it doesn’t matter as far as Constitution is concerned, I am telling you, there are no scriptures which tell Ayyappa is a Naishtika Brahmachari. This is a myth created by the pretend devotees who has their own devious motives behind it. You will understand this if you watch any discussion conducted in Malayalam TV channels where historians talk about this. It is available in RUclips as well. For eg. The speech of Sunil P. Ilayidom. He is known for his writings and lectures on politics, literature, art and culture and is a recipient of the Kerala Sahitya Akademi Award.
Moral: People will use your ignorance in certain things to fool you in many ways as everyone doesn’t need to study Constitution to the depth in which any advocate has to study it. So, it is easy to manipulate you. Please understand the reality behind every argument by consulting with the ones you can trust & the ones who know about the matter. Not the manipulators like Sai Deepak & Rahul Easwar.
@@hhnandu tht way women should be allowed to go to mosque?women n men should pray together in mosque, everyone should say vande mataram irrespective of wht religion thy belong. Right
The ultimate aim of Brahmacharya as per hinduism is to reach genderless identity of the genderless soul plane by transcending the gender consciousness ! For that purpose , the aspirant(he or she ) temporarily stays away from opposite gender physically or mentally or through either ways. The aim of brahmachari ie Soul plane, is considered as a plane of total equality and homogeneity. So now , how can a spiritual discipline done in the spirit of transcending gender idea can be gender discrimination ?!!!!
Exactly, this is what many people do not understand.
First lets try to understand gender discriminstion.
Hinduism if at all it exists as a relegion is much more complex than just saying one god, one prophet or one book. Its about urself, ur relation with the society and ur 1 to 1 relation with Almighty.
said that as per vedic culture, sex is mainly for progeny. man gives the seed and woman bares the seed and gives birth. both man and woman need to bring up the child together. but no matter what any modren day feminists say , a man can have sex and deny the child so he dosnt need to take responsibilty. but can a woman hide her pregnancy and deny the child is hers? The man can go around and have sex with 10 woman if all 10 women are pregnant means there are 10 children. but if that man denies all 10 children, they have to grow up with no father. on the other hand,, if 1 woman goes and have sex with 10 men again, all 10 men can deny the child but that woman is still pregnant and dont know who the father is. So the child has to grow up with no father. with DNA technology u can find but still that man shuld be available and should take responsibility.
Said that is one of the reasons why society has put more restrictions on women. It is not relegious rather socio economic reason envidoned by ancient sages.
now comingv to relegiocity in vedic culture, woman was not really required to do anyworship to any diety. if she serves her husband thats enough. where as man has to toil and take care of the woman. not only that, he has to do spiritual practises snd merits he gained through practises automatically 50% goes to wife.
The main reason marriage institution created in vedic culture was to benefit mainly woman and protect children. so relegion did not discriminate woman.
do u know how many single mothers suffere in developed countries? do u know how many children are orphans in so called developed countries? inspite of so called developed why do these things happen?
thats one aspect why in many ancient and vedic cultures women were treated differently, not to supress them but to protect them and protect the society.. but now the times changed and woman are becoming equal with men, still women are the only one who can give birth. man can deny and escape. but women can not deny the child, when she does too then its double jeopardy for the child.
So before beating drums about gender discrimination we have to contemplate why sages laid out certain rules guidelines etc. Ofcourse people alwayz abuse laws to their advantage thats different story.
if u agree with my argument on gender discrimination i can elaborate more on specfic topic of ayappa temple.
American At Heart But really i didnt get ur point. brahmacharya is a spiritual practice. I think, Differentiation done in that regard is not discrimination.
@@MrPhorus The summary of my comment was, many differentiation we find or appear as dicrimination did not have malicious intents to begin with. But as the time passed, people abused, also socital dynamics changed but many could/did not re-adjust accordingly. Where did I say anything about Braham charya?
American At Heart Yes. Thats true
#ready to wait .please learn about ayyappa first and then make up about your discrimination. I am an ayyappa devotee and a woman in the restricted age. In kerala some ladies have their initials have a female name their mothers name as initials . Let india give this choice to her daughters and be an example to the whole world ie true equality, i will fully support that . But this no . Dont we feel insulted when the western world based on ignorance judges india as a land of elephants and snakes?The same way we feel when rest of india without even a bit of effort makes a judgement on our dear ayyapa at sabarimala. Not even a single english media covered the fact that at sabarimala there is a mosque where ayyappa devotees have to worship. That is y so many muslim women too joined the procession at pandalam, can u find any other deity in india who is so beloved by all
@SANDEEP KUMAR tht way should I enter mosques whenever I want ? It will go agisnt mohmd teaching only n I will end up disprespecting thier relgion.
Blessed to hear such a clear argument on an interesting case. BTW, when will judicial reforms be implemented and cut down super human privileges
Never seen such an intelligent and confident argument in my entire life thus far!! brilliant!
Eagerly waiting for part 2
Crystal Clear explanation of the whole scene by Adv Sai. Hats off
after listening to the arguments of Mr Sai Deepak, I wonder how the supreme court take a decision otherwise. this is a clear example of how flawed and susceptible our judicial system is. nevertheless we should keep continuing to laud our supreme court as the ultimate authority and have trust in our constitution. Keep talking facts and be logical till the objective is achieved. Thats the best anyone can do.
Sai Deepak's knowledge that surely has come out of the research he has done on the subject is commendable. He is way ahead of the the legal luminaries that we see on tv every day. We will see great things come out his hat in days to come
Impressive lawyer 😍
One of the most brilliant and convincing argument again by Sai Deepak.
Long live dear .
👏👏👏
awesome points by sai deepak.
What advocate Deepak said is absolutely correct. There is no question about discrimination between men and women on the basis of what advocate Deepak beautifully explained..
Learn to respect all old traditionally followed practices
Thanks to NewsX for having this objective debate. I have watched keenly the debates on the same topic by other channels but I am afraid no one has been able to debate this with facts and research.
Sai Deepak please try and take up TTD(TIRUMALA TIRUPATHI DEVASTHANAM)head priest for generations Ramana dhikshitulu garus case,where he was thrown out for exposing gold being stolen from temple by the politicians
Yesss
Bravo J Sai Deepak ji KO SHAT SHAT NAMAN 🙏 .What a clarity of thoughts and in depth knowledge of Sanatan Dharma !
next subramanian swamy in making
Ironically Subramanian Swamy supported SC verdict .
Dear Sai,
You are fantastic and fabulous
Congratulations for defending the Hindu people of India in every debate Thank you sir.
There is no discrimination
It is for good for women
Please understand
Women form 50% of population. If you don't allow them, you're discriminating.
@@pvinayagam52 can a man get admission in colleges like Lady shri Ram?? Isn't that discrimination?
You are not listening the points made by advocate..when you have already made up your mind,there is no point of debating..
Not correct. Colleges are not fanatical and rigid in their admission policy. When there are many colleges for boys, for conservative families, it is necessary to open a college for girls. If the colleges for boys don't get adequate intake - in consecutive years, the colleges will go unisex, inviting girls. Or, for some other reasons like in our times when women become equal in every sphere, or, we must help in women education and so, it is better to allow them. On this reason, St Stephan which was boys only college, for more than 100 years, is now co-ed college. My own college, which was boys college, began to admit girls; so also, my higher secondary school. Because the neighbour hood parents complained that their girls had to travel more than five km to reach their all girls college. They requested that our college became co-ed. It did. In future, same may happen to Lady Sriram also. If there is a legitimate and reasonable demand, Lady Sriram will take boys. In other words, colleges do not discriminate between men and women. The admission policy is based on present circumstances, not on ancient scriptures. They move with times happily. They are therefore not fundamentalists. Here, Sabarimalai refuses to move with times.
If it is proved in court that since the establishment of that temple,women weren't allowed because of celibate nature of diety ,not because women are considered low or anything else..will it be okay for you?
Because it will be okay by constitution to not disturb the fundamental practice..
@@pvinayagam52 moving with time is not a point here..women were always the part of religious activities..They sit along with men in yagya..They can go to temples of shiva,Ram,krishna or any other temple..discrimination is not a point.
This tradition isn't harming anybody.If a woman believe in our tradition, she won't go into the temple..the she doesn't believe in tradition,why does she want to visit the temple??
This tradition isnt like sati pratha or parda system which need to be abolished.
Very insightful and informed session. Thank you all 🙏
SAI DEEPAK sir I think his legend in justice system AND his debate very excellence and point view
A great discussion
Sai Deepak has thought matters to depth and presented them in a cogent logical and matter-of-fact manner
Most informative and educative
Glad to be belonging to the same institution - IIT kharagpur though decades apart
A young man thinking far beyond his years
The only possible solution for this is we need every Hindu couple to have at least 8 kids each and give them Vedic education
Brilliant argument from this gentleman. Hats off to him mainly media and ill fate knowledge individuals have to create an unnecessary stir on this matter.
Iqbal Ansari, Former Chief Justice of Patna High Court @25:27 "As you have put it rightly, it is not a simple question of gender discrimination, it is far graver than that” (almost verbatim)
Megh, Ansari had no business to make such judgement unless he talks of same thing about women in his religion.
Constitution seems to have no say about churches and mosques. It is only meant to attack Hindu beliefs.
Leave Hindu temples alone. We Hindu women are not being subjected to any discrimination.
@@sudhak5057 You're right Sudha Ma'am.
Sudha Shastri - Oh is that so? Who made you the voice of Hindu women? Stop self-anointing and please offer your insight on the following -
The whole argument offered by Sai Deepak is intellectually dishonest. If celibacy requires an environment free of opposite sex, then why is Maalikapurathamma temple within Sabarimala an exception, given that she is also a celibate by way of her eternal wait for Ayyappan (as a consequence of his holy promise)?? Isn't that a double standard? Men can be the pujaris for Maalikapurathamma temple, men can enter as devotees there, but somehow women cannot?? So, moral of the story is when argument based on menstruation was not successful, they cooked up the whole argument based on celibacy - which also is weak as seen above! Farcical lawyers!
@@vaishakmuralidharan7605 Do you want to go to Sabarimala? Is that it?
My argument was about courts interfering in Hindu religious beliefs but not daring to raise their voice about other religions! That is it! Anything else is moot.
@@muktamalakar5771 Thank you, Mukta.
I am also impressed by the very calm honourable judge who has asked very good and intelligent questions with the intention of understanding this entire argument given by Adv. Sai Deepak.
Awesome ❤️❤️❤️
This is the best thing i have heard on sabarimala in a long time.How couldn't the honourable SC properly interpret it.
'Save our sabarimala'
Those judges must be potato heads or lowiq lvl
If u r not Ayyappa devotee, don't go there. And if you are a devo, respect the temple norms and don't go there. That's it
It's a sheer treat for sai deepak's fans! Watched this only because there was sai deepak's photo on video preface. As always, Enjoyed listening him!
Celibacy is essential in preserving the Semen from falling to the ground or flowing down as this hinders the spiritual growth,
It is called Urthvarethas,
Meaning that the semen flows upwards through the Chakras in the body to reach the Sahasrara in the head,
This Celibacy is called Naishtika Brahmacharrya.(not allowing the semen to flow down)
Bhishma is a Naishtika Brahmachari.He is the only Naishtika Brahmachari, apart from Hanuman.
Thank god... atleast the Management of Lord Hanuman temples dont play with innocent devotees like these people do
I am a big fan of J. Sai Deepak jee....How much clarity and knowledge he has...
His arguments are very deep and logical always.....
Great sai
Mr sai ,thank you very much for your excellent work on this sensitive issue.
India's pride
The only program where one speaks at a time is this .kudos to the anchor
Well said sarnam ayaapa
This is the best debate regarding this topic..in all other news channels the host becomes so biased never give chance to the person opposing his ideas..sai deepak..you nailed every point you said..and the justice sitting opposite was also patient enough to listen ..
SWAMYA SARANAM AYYAPPA
Congrats Deepak Sir....a big Salute from Kerala.....Thanks Sir....
Omg how he lost the case
That must be true,sai can't lose this case.Those judges made up their mind before they hear any argument.Those judges needed to punish fr the violation of law.
Cause in the end it is for the so called judges to take the decision. He undoubtedly did his best. Nothing but respect for this man.
So r women allowed now in the temple??
@@nathanmanju5232 case again in the court, no other women's came, and covid. And politics
@@nathanmanju5232 no female devotee would enter the temple until she is 50, if she believes in ayapa!
This host is sooo much better than other argumentative hosts. Who can only shout at people than to listen.
some clarity on the debate. mostly MSM did not show any clue of understanding.
Wah Sai Deepak has clear understanding of the topic and explains it with clarity.
Dumb public who ask for entry of every women irrespective of their age or physical capability / status should use their intelligence and knowledge like this Young Lawyer before jumping to blind conclusions. Traditions in good tastes are not to be opposed.
wish i could meet you Adv Sai Deepak! hats off to you for your clarity in thought!!
Those who love ayyappa should respect his tradition
One goes binge watching after seeing 1 video of J. Sai Deepak Sir... Most apt speaker !! Wow !!
After FMF video i came here.
The presentation of Mr.Sai Deepak is very good. Moderation also is good.
What is wrong with the interviewer??? Repeating what Sai Deepak is saying.
Tamalee Sen sai deepak tells truth
@@MrPhorus yes I know. My problem was he was cutting him in between and repeating him like a parrot. Which was not necessary.
I agree. The anchor looked like a schoolboy struggling to follow the teacher's words and jot them down. 😂
Deepak beats about the bush. So, what he speaks is difficult to understand for viewers. Nangia helps.
P Vinayagam It seems you're the one who loves to play ring around the Rosie.
Lord Ayyappa and we all support for the sake of Hindu Dharma,Sai Deepak Garu Awesome ,I think the God is with you and we all with you sir,Hats off