Lol, fuck no it shouldn't. People should be free to be married or unmarried. Hell, if someone wants to die a virgin or fuck up and down the ladder, they should be free to do so.
Like Vaush said, these people rely on narrativization. This guest's politics are heavily authoritarian and reactionary but he just doesn't care and he creates a lazy narrative to defend himself. Statistics are completely secondary.
And to build on what Elias said, once they use narrativization to make these claims, they can then say any deviation from their narrative is just a result of our deviation from their desired behavior. "Society doesn't mainly exist of happy marriages." "Well, THAT'S because pornography and homosexuality makes people deviate from the right way of monogamous, religious families! If there were less gay people and we banned porn, then everyone would be happy in marriage!"
the reason why japanese men are less likely to seek partners is because of the workaholic culture that cuts down the time and energy they can use to find a partner. So they turn to easier sources to satisfy their needs, simply because the harder sources are not feasible. If the easier sources weren't available they wouldn't seek out irl partners because it would still be too hard
Bro some people were communities of thieves in history. Within their community it may have been acceptable. Broadly it was always bad. Same thing with this.
@@AbdulRahman-it1fv The issue with the interaction Michael Seraph pointed out is that D brought up history as an argument, and when V pointed out historical counter-example, instead of accepting he was wrong, he claimed that appealing to history was fallacious, even though he was the one to appeal to history in the first place. It's a demonstration that D isn't concerned with logically valid or with well reasoned arguments as much as he is with trying to push forwards a dogmatic view.
@@henriquepacheco7473 no way. I know daniels way of argument. He may have made that as a statement only. He gave numerous other reasons why it was bad. Timestamp it so i can see for myself. If youre truthful ill concede.
@@AbdulRahman-it1fv You know his way of argument? Can you please explain him stating "Porn is bad because we need to pair-bond" and "Polygamy is the solution to infidelity" within 20 seconds of each other? Is he 'just joking', or is he grasping for anything to defend his preconception?
I thought about including the timestamp but was too lazy. I'll give it 2 min looking for it. EDIT: found it. it is at the Question at 2:13:44, where someone says that p*rn isn't natural (appeal to nature fallacy) and has been discouraged in history (appeal to tradition fallacy and social proof bias). Daniel then goes on to call the argument coherent and ture at 2:14:26, and claims that it has been stigmatized throught history. They discuss the thing, Vaush demonstrates successfully that p*rn was present throught cultures in history. Then, after a wide range of ad hoc arguments by Daniel, at 2:18:45 he says "You are committing a fallacy by appealing to the past."
The process is not banning gotcha video games, processed foods, gambling. Its putting restrictions on scummy practices and consumer protection. Don't punish the drug addict punish the system and people who got the guy hooked on the drug.
As a degenerate mtg (magic the gathering not the nazi) enjoyer I rescind my wicked ways. I will no longer be besotted by the cardboard but instead have now become an actual wizard as nature intended.
He was just lying when he said that the debate wasn't going to be about religion. These types of extremists in religion can't be debated because they don't believe in reality
Many religious people are like that. Same when it comes to morality, they'll try to follow their Holy book instead of facts in reality " It's wrong if God says it's wrong"
@@dave2863 yeah, I’m Muslim… (haven’t watched the vid yet) but there are a few things…I can leave rather than take from our religious doctrine. I feel like it’s way easier to do that as a Christian than a Muslim, but in general I think people should quit policing what other people are doing, if people wanna watch porn or have sex or show their hair or even drink beer? Let them, geez
I've had some quibbles with how vaush did certain debates recently, similar to complaints about footwork, but "should we ban Muslims because of the hate crimes done against them" against a guy like this is perfect form and quick thinking
When you find out he believes children should be married you realize he wasnt bringing up child porn becuase he understood why it was bad. He thought it was just some arbitrary like we drew for no reason. He doenst understand age of consent laws so he saw outlawing CP just outlawing feet porn or something.
it always was the norm only under modernity it wasn't and my grandfather married when he was 12 that's 2 generations ago. bring your best argument go ahead.
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty it always was the norm only under modernity it wasn't and my grandfather married when he was 12 that's 2 generations ago. bring your best argument go ahead.
oxytocin is also released when you pet your dog. as the "pair bonding" hormone, oxytocin is associated with basically every positive social interaction, including non physical interactions like conversation, as a means of chemically reinforcing social cohesion. this includes simulated social interactions, which is why dating sims are a thing.
just reading/watching something releases it, which is why you see so many people in fandom forming parasocial attachments to characters they can't even control like they could in games (superwholock comes to mind immediately).
Vaush asking about whether Muslims should be banned because they cause hate crimes was a brilliant move to burst through Daniel's constant lack of context yes and or no questions.
The fact that he equivocates porn to being married as a way to see booba anyone totally just ignores that your wife is a real person who has to consent and speaks volumes to how he views marriage and women
His argument that if you want to see multiple boobs, Islam lets you marry multiple women would probably fall apart if you asked if he would be fine with one woman marrying multiple men because she wants to get gangbanged.
Yes, let us forget that some people in marriages still allows their partner to watch porn because... that's their own personal boundaries and not every relationship should be as black and white lol.
Sir, humans are in fact not butterflies. Not all humans like porn, some prefer the real thing. Having an addiction to porn is bad because it’s an addiction, not because it’s porn. If I had an addiction to apples and only ate apples it would damage my health, that doesn’t mean apples are bad. Also, not everyone wants to get married and have kids…
Subpar argumentation. Obviously some items/behaviors induce addiction more than others. To say heroine = video games because "the addiction is bad not the thing itself" is egregiously childish mentality.
it's true, my wife divorced me because i fell in love with a cardboard cutout of pamela anderson. i am so lonely now and it's all because i couldn't resist those seductive 2D curves
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Sounds like something worth of mentioning, wonder why he didn´t do that. Almost like he is trying to misrepresent science to fit his agenda.
So I decided to look into the whole "porn physically alters the brain" claim, because I'm a biologist and that set off ALL of my bullshit alarms. Based on what I can find, that claim comes from mass media and anti-porn groups misunderstanding or misrepresenting various studies. The closest thing I could find in the literature (though I admit my search wasn't exhaustive) was a couple of studies that indicated that *porn addiction* can cause long-term physical alterations to the brain. Not surprising, as ALL addictive behaviors have that potential. So yeah, that whole talking point was at best poorly sourced and at worst dishonest.
One thing that grinds my gears is how bastardized the word "addiction" has become. No, saying that you having coffee every morning is not a caffeine addiction; no, saying you crank your hog daily is not a masturbation addiction. Addiction become such when your DAILY health is being NEGATIVELY affected by the object of your...proclivities (i.e, you're not eating, you're sleeping is off, you're not keeping up with basic hygiene, you're missing work, you're not paying rent, and much more).
@@colt9836 I've given up expecting laypeople to care about proper terminology. We've reached a point in our society where the word "literally" can also mean "figuratively," which is its exact opposite. Actually hoping anyone outside the relevant fields will know or care about the difference between a habit, an addiction, or dependence is too optimistic, especially when there are narratives to be pushed.
At first I was pleasantly surprised when Daniel said he would not be arguing from religion, but when he started talking about butterflies I wished he would have stuck to religion.
The reason why was because he needs to have Vaush interact with what's given. Vaush barely knows much about Islam besides his living interactions with Muslims he personally interacts IRL & Sheikh Google he uaed for Streaming purpose to make content when Muslim topics appear. I get it. Maybe if Vaush is interested comparison between there politics without Chat trying to do confirmation bais in Vaush's mind....
@@TazKidNoah The point I was making was that arguing from religion is very weak for a debate, but the whole butterfly thing was just pure nonsense. There is nothing wrong with illustrating the definition of supernormal stimulus with the research on butterflies (also done with baby birds btw), but the way he kept going back to butterflies made it look like he couldn't differentiate the meaningful difference between a bug and adult human being.
@George xander Great straw man, genius. There's a plethora of strong evidence for evolution by natural selection. There's no solid evidence for sky daddy
@George xander How would you know what I have and haven't looked into? Either way, the beauty of science is that all the evidence is there for you to look at yourself. Go read Why evolution is true by Jerry Coyne or watch the evidence for evolution video on RUclips by Beverly biology. It's too much to regurgitate in a comment but evidence comes from embryology, the fossil record, common morphological structures, geographic distribution of species, phylogeny, and molecular biology. The evidence comes from a variety of places. Where's your evidence for the great ghost in the sky that loves you?
@George xander Sigh: the same old tired apologetics. You're betraying your ignorance of what a theory is in science. It's not what colloquially is meant by the word. You're too blinded by bias to see reality
The way Vaush pinned him down with the "it's also hugely important to look at why research results show up the way they do when it comes to social problems and not just go crazy with the ban hammer" part with the opponent not being able to slam down the ban hammer on Muslims being in America was just *chefs kiss*...
If you remove profanity and laughs there is nothing much left in Vaush arguments. He was not on the topic, he did not bring any study, there are just random statements and lots of beard combing :D... ..Vaush is really bad representation of athesim.
@@hawkeye100000 You did not address my initial comment whatsoever. The original argument still stands. The opponent had no response to Vaush's argument there
@@et5600 Banning muslims because of victim of hate is known as victim blaming and in case of porn the victims could be his partner, wife his family. Porn is just a bad tool just like drugs. That was a ridiculous argument.
Even his first argument was weird and wrong, literally using a research about butterflys and comparing it to humans. And if you don't see how that's wrong, then maybe you should read a biology book or look at a documentary about insects.
Lmfao “butterflies are retarded” was such an amazing point. Basically his argument is “ban anything which can lead to overconsumption” which is… ban everything. Amazing system of governance
Yeah, I thought the butterfly comparison was strange. Butterflies and humans aren’t really comparable. I think that would be like arguing “Birds die from flying into glass windows, therefore we should ban glass windows so that humans don’t give themselves brain damage by running full force into a glass window.”
Daniel would of done better if he just stated his beliefs come from his faith and stop the whole charade of pretending he gets them from studies and data. Absurdly transparent and borderline insulting even to the average muslim
So you'll just ignore all the studies and evidences that supports daniels claims just because he's a Muslim? Yes great going there buddy. Those studies aren't made by muslims fyi.
@@floki5182 Daniel, when presented with evidence to the contrey from Vaush, reacted by dismissing it and falling back on "morals" while side stepping into alternative scenarios. Because Danny boy only cares about the data that correlates with his beliefs. Its plain old cherry picking as he is driven by his fundementalist view of his religion and not the science
Pornography is responsible for an unhealthy shift in sexual expectations in the same way that romantic comedies are responsible for a shift in romantic expectations. It’s a farcical argument. Good sexual education is the best avenue for fostering healthy sexual expression, just like learning healthy boundaries and experiencing normal relationships addresses impossible romantic standards. Art exaggerates human experience and changing that is unrealistic and counterproductive. People can get wild and idealize things based on a “perfect” picture sometimes. We’re not banning every film where people fall in love at first sight. Grow up, man.
I'm *pretty* sure this guy would hate to live in a world where all people were educated on boundaries and healthy relationships even more than he hates this world where porn is legal.
True, the only reason that porn causes unhealthy expectations is because sex ed is terrible. Which side is it that wants to make it as bad as possible? Oh right, Daniel's side. Once again conservatives causing the problems they complain about.
if romantic comedies are possibly a cause for "unhealthy shift in sexual expectations" maybe romantic comedy is also bad? I know its really hard for you to cope with it but don't be brain dead
@@pomponi0 Wish I was exaggerating, but he argued pro-child marriages after the debate. Dude is a pdf file r*pe supporter pretending to be pure and holy.
He leads off saying he's going to leave his religion out of the argument because he knows that won't convince anybody, so at least he's realistic there.
@@JackgarPrime Yeah that gave me some hope, and I've seen religious people successfully pull it off, but all his arguments here were based on his religious principles first and foremost
@@B10101 The issue is that Butterflies and humans are far far far too different to draw any comparable analysis. it's the same reason we don't test medicine for humans on butterflies for human consumption, they just aren't closely related enough and have very alien perspectives to one another.
Somehow I doubt that the original purpose of that study was to draw a line between butterfly behavior and human behavior. The last common ancestor was eons ago, and prolly to simple to map onto humans or butterflies
@@Abbaswaz he said vaguely that it affects the brain as bad as cocane. And the study only says that SOMETIMES it can be addictive through behavioral addiction. Which behavioral is also on food, video games, music, movies, TV, shopping, etc.
@@axelignis3488 Noo,the person in chat said that he was a druggie and that pornography is nowhere as close to drugs and the study sited that pornography has the same nural pathways when it's fired to that of drugs,yes you can form a behavioural addiction to almost anything including reading,but pornography's effect on the brain works exactly like drugs that's what the study sited, please watch that part again
@@Abbaswaz the way the study explained it also could be seen related to how someone can create an addiction to other items (not including drugs or alcohol) like sugar is definitely a great example of this
@@axelignis3488 yes I agree it could be seen as such but let's not forget that the main point was to prove that they were equally the same with regards to effect on the brain,but I wanna know who would you say had a more coherent argument all and all
I read the study he insisted so much on, the one that shows how the structure of the brain changes because of porn I shit you not, there is a sentence in the conclusion that acknowledges how it's equally as possible that watching porn doesn't predate the variation in brain structure, but rather that the people with those different structures could be predisposed to watching more porn. The correlation could be literally the opposite of what he claimed and he just dismisses it and never mentions it.
@@duellinksantimeta7636 Absolutely. He doesn't care about the data or the actual truth. He literally says even if the data didn't line up with his preconceived notions, he'd still be against porn regardless. I don't see anything wrong with him using secular arguments to make his case, but if you are honest enough to say that you'd still hold the same opinion despite having no evidence, then you're still making a religious argument, you're just dressing it up with the secular analysis to try and cover that fact so as to convince the non religious. But to do that, you have to have way more data and a way better argument. Haven't finished, but so far he's taking a big fat L.
I think your lack of education is hindering your comprehension, you couldn't even use the word "predate" properly, second of all, people being pre disposed to something can still make the thing bad. People can be pre disposed to gambling addiction but people will still say gambling in generally bad. So considering you probably lied about the study anyway, you're still wrong.
Muslim guy sounds indistinguishable from most conservative Christians even right down to the sales pitch. “Suffering from addiction? My religion has the answer!”
He literally defended marrying 10 yo to maximize fertility... I'm not a Christian apologist, not even for the "moderate" ones but yeah I'll say this is worse.
Moroccan here , when i discovered american conservatives , i found them.... Familiar . We had the same shit in morocco with people too religious. Same shit , different smell.
Christianity and Islam are both Mary Sue FANFICTIONs of Hebrew Mythology. of course theyre the same. number 1 and 2 from the same anus, worshipping the Mary Sue hebrew god, Yahweh the sexist homophobic bigotted genocidal evil MONSTER god, Thats, like, TOOOOTALLY so much sexier and most powerful of all the gods, and everyone falls in love with him because he's, like, soooo NOT like other girls er gods. What I dont get is why Red Pilled InCels wont just convert to Islam. Waaaahmen will just be given to them.
Girl, the notion that the French aren't revolting is because they have pr/n is entirely false. The French would literally revolt over the smallest thing.
Authoritarians always think they are being interrupted when they are the worst culprits. They always think they've talked less when they talk SO MUCH. Daniel gives away the game simply with his aggression.
You bringing up the gay adoption point was very telling of what his true intentions were. He doesn't care about what is truly beneficial for society, he only cares about making sure people live in accordance to his religion. If the Quran said child marriage is good (which you could argue for because the main prophet married a child) then in his eyes it would be, even if it destroys the life of that child and produces no objective good besides self pleasure.
@@OneEyeShadow last 10 minutes isn’t changing what happened. The guy went on about studies supporting his argument, then when asked about studies supporting something he didn’t, he just didn’t respond.
@@yourfavoritedrawer7680 it ABSOLUTELY matters. If someone disregards the evidence of a process most of the time but then reverts to using it for the things thier prescribed biases already hold you can be very certain they’re arguing in bad faith and only care about this dataset because they think it’s the one people less pilled on thier irrational biases might listen to. It’s like creationists using those worn footprints that kinda look like human ones to say humans and dinosaurs coexisted, you know they don’t actually care about fossils, they just cherry pick whatever datapoints they can justify to support thier pre established metaphysical beliefs.
I think I know one person whose parents have anything approximating a happy marriage or stable relationship. Multiple people (myself included) were raised in abusive households. Still others are children of divorce. I know they theoretically exist, but they're rare.
@@IsThatAShortJoke yeah “they exist” and “society is made up of them” are not the same statement. Nearly half of all marriages end in divorce, this guy lives in a fantasy world.
@@IsThatAShortJoke you hit the nail directly on the head. There's an insane amount abuse happening behind closed doors in families. My extended family is like wierdly close to eachother so I get all the "behind closed doors gossip" of like 20+ different households. I think in total I can count... 3? that are healthy.
Even worse probably. Daniel got famous for "refuting" american Muslim scholars like Dr. Yasir Qadhi and Omar Suleiman because the Yaqeen institute was "too pro LGTBQ+ " according to him. He takes the most radical positions on every Islamic issue without any understanding of Islamic jurisprudence. His knowledge is laughable and he always reads a prepared opening statement like a script. Thats why no one from the Muslim academics respects this guy, he is just trying to signal boost how hardcore and traditional he is on every issue. He is pretty harmful to the Muslim community I think. Going around debating everyone with absolute nonsense making a mockery of Islam.
The clip of Daniel defending child marriage convinced me that he only wants to ban porn so the feds are too busy cracking down on that instead of his cp
"do you want to be in a loving relationship? porn prevents this" I am in the happiest relationship i have ever been in after discovering I'm gay THANKS TO PORN. i was miserable and hated the idea of dating untill i realized i liked men through porn.
Are you still in that relationship Pal? Prolly not but anyways, Thanks for confirming that homosexuality is unnaturaI and it’s mostly because of 🌽 addiction “I “discovered” I am gay because of pœrn” which leads to the neediness of Novelty and overstimulation.
I can't help but notice that whenever somebody denounces the "evil," of pornography that the person will always turn out to be a religious type but religion has done more provable harm than anything they imagine pornography doing. There is something Darkly humorous about that
Human trafficking is still a problem even in the West, wouldent that problem have been solved now that the West is largely secular? Misogyny still exists. There are countless examples of how these problems still persist even in secular societies. How are you assering that religion has caused more problems? The inquisition killed approx 6 to 8 thousand people. The stalinist transformation of Russian society (gulags, collectivization etc) killed millions. How are you asserting what you are asserting? If pornography was an ideal profession that wouldent we be exhorting our friends and family to taking it up? Wouldent job fairs herald it as at the next big thing? There is something obviously wrong with it, natural intuition suggests that there might be something wrong with one's body being turned into a sexualized and de-subjectivized commodity. Have you read some of the feminist interpretations of Porn? I would suggest doing so.
@UCV4lLfubsDpY6S1cff-IB4w Can you even find me one single war that was started via pornography? No you can't, nor you can you find any ethnic cleansing or discrimination or any other atrocity that has been committed in the name of porn. Religion on the other hand is among the most commonly sighted reasons and justifications for those things. Even human trafficking has been justified by religion and slavery was defended using religion... scientific progress and even human rights have historically found the greatest pushback from the religious. Now I'm not saying that pornography has never caused any bad things to happen. But I am saying that we need to stop acting as if porn is the great evil of society when religion is constantly given a free pass despite being objectively worse on an exponentially massive level.
@@Shayed. Religion has started Wars it has been used as justification for all manner of persecution throughout human history even to the present... porn has done neither
@@artisticcannibalism1350 Your claim suggests that religion has had, historically, the most destructive effect on human communities. I would question that by asking you to look at the scale and impact of destruction wrought by secular communities in the 20th century. The most sanguinary wars fought by our species were not motivated by religious impulses but by distinctly modern ideologies, I.e. communism and fascism. Blaming religion is a panacea, it quite frankly obscures more than it reveals.
Porn is bad because a scientist studied Butterflies. This is this guys argument. Nothing wrong with porn, just need to do it in moderation. Some people are more prone to addictive behaviors than other people. End of story.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 I didn't even listen/watch the debate. I watched the first few minutes, but it would be good for vaush to lose once in a while.
He basically gave it all away when he admitted that chicks in tight sweaters should be banned too. I could use all the same arguments he uses for banning porn as reasons we should ban religion and his arguments for why we should not ban religion would be all the same arguments Vasuh is making against banning porn.
it always was the norm only under modernity it wasn't and my grandfather married when he was 12 that's 2 generations ago. bring your best argument go ahead. MUSTAFA KAMAL ATTAJEW 🏳️🌈✡
@@lrose5522 Vaush should get a refund. I can't believe Americans would defend things because of which their societies are collapsing... Anyways your whole country is sitting on a time b... omb
This is what always happens in my experience, when people believe things for (at least mostly) religious reasons, and then try to argue those beliefs without mentioning their religion. They can't do it. They're just reasoning backwards from their religious conclusion, and somehow the religion always seeps back in the second they're out of their limited ammo.
Yep, Bubbler Shabimbo admitted as much. There's a quote to the effect of "I don't believe god made stupid rules, so I find evidence that explains why the rules god gave us are correct."
@@brennanlable This is true, the problem is that *certain* religions demonize doubt and questioning. We're all vulnerable to being dumb, but we should have a way to climb out of that hole...and the Abrahamics vilify the ladder that would allow it.
@@sunfeatherX3 He started talkin' REAL open about how "Actually child marriage is SUPER fuckin' BASTE actually because [Stupid bullshit attempts at justification]" I'll find a timestamp in the VOD lmao
Not all video games are equal or have the same level of addictiveness or hooking the person in it obviously. Playing Super Mario bros, Sonic or Donkey Kong country is not the same as playing Skyrim or Elden Ring Witcher 3 or Gothic 3 or whatever.
So throughout that entire opening statement the only thing I heard was that porn causes less sexual harassment and sexual assault because people are too busy watching porn to do that. I don't even know how true that is but that's essentially what he's arguing with the butterfly example right? Also he never once answered the question "Where do you draw the line?" He just kept responding with "No, where do YOU draw the line Vaush?" Oh my god lol.
I mean young girls have boyfriends in the west The disagreement here is not about 6 rather its about should we allow 6 outside of marriage In religious society u cannot have 6 with no marriage so people get married early
50:08 this guys biggest self report, that he thinks meaningful relationships are based entirely on sex. Edit: by the way this comment was written by a demisexual who did not understand that there was a name for what he was, which caused a huge amount of frustration in his dating life, until I heard about it on a Vaush stream. Sincerely, thank you Ian, even older guys like me can benefit from what you have to say .
Can we stop using the ability to form a relationship as the benchmark for how bad "the movies" are. I have no desire to be in a relationship. I don't have the emotional, mental, or social wherewithal to maintain a relationship. If I haven't seen or heard from someone in 2 days I practically forget they're even alive. I've been like that even before "the movies" came into my life. I just need 10 minutes alone to milk the venom out.
The only problem I have with Vaush debates is he usually crushes it within the first half hour and I don't have the patience for a 3 hour video. Must be addicted to RUclips shorts or something.
Yeah i feel especially with the debates on social issues that Vaush almost always wins the debate decisivly at half an hour. Then there is just an additional couple hours of idiot rambling. That idiot rambling can be really entertaining though.
Totally off topic here, Vaush, but I have to go here: Thanks for letting me finally get a good look at your cat! I'm obsessed with cats - they're my addiction... Also, I'm a 66 year old boomer who recently stumbled on your material. I love watching you shred some of these idiots. Keep it up!!
I initally would agree with Daniel, but he's just so incompetent and dishonest that I could not possibly give him the win. Like that whole gay adoption part. Vaush didn't say "no" he asked "why?" And Daniel proceeds as though he said "no." That's so dishonest
It's a key part of his strategy. He often will start making fun of his opponent once all their arguments are rebutted and they continue to push them, because you can't do much else at that point.
@goldensword02 Daniel is saying porn should be forbidden because porn fucks with people's minds. When Vaush asked him whether we should ban everything that fucked with people's minds, Daniel hinted that he would be ok banning everything that would fuck with people's minds. a slippery slope implies that going from A to B isn't as obvious as the sophist declares, but Daniel conceeded that. Daniel conceeds that because, if you read the first bit about the guy, a literal theological dystopia based on the least charitable intepretations of Islam is the way to go. The guy is for fucking slavery and thinks that the majority of the muslim world being opposed to it is them being influenced by liberal propaganda. Vaush's point is pretty simple and derived from classic sociological analysis. Most people who watch porn, most people who drink, most people who eat do so in a non addictive way. And it oh so happens that the ones who don't have other shit going on in their lives that compels them to ultimately fall in an addiction. How about working on that rather than Reputable sources my ass, every study should be discuted and disputed way before the debates because Daniel would obviously try to bias every study result and conclusion to make it bend with his world view. Butterflies fucking cardboard do not mean shit. They rushed into what they felt were the most attractive mates like the literal automaton insects thet always were. and like he said, if god encouraged porn, he'd be all for it, and would be actively defending the other point. Daniel is the ultimate sophist because he's trying to make science converge with religion like Galileo's detractors. if god forbids porn, abide by it and don't ask questions on why or how. there is literally no scientific reason to explain why pork cant be eaten today or why you should say bismillah before slaughtering cattle, so why fucking bother in the first place.
One aspect that always gets ignored in porn debates is that a lot of kinks and shit doesn't need barely any nudity what so ever. Will we have to ban Godzilla movies because there's people into macro? I mean I know damn well that what got me into macro wasn't porn, it was a fucking boss battle from a video game
Well a counter argument to that I could see someone making is that regardless of those things cause kinks and fetishes they are not overtly sexual. (What is overtly sexual tends to very from culture to culture) Because even though yes anything, even innocent things can create fetishes (I know from personal experience) That doesn't mean we should ban them because they are not overtly sexual. (Keep in mind I am only playing devil's advocate here)
Another thing that gets ignored in porn debates is that you don't even need porn to develop kinks, though obviously access to porn accelerates going down the pathway that was "set" for you by early, distinct experiences in life. Like it is preposterous to make porn responsible for kink itself.
@@airlesscanvas6425 The counterargument to that is that there is no inherent moral weight to things that are overtly sexual. This shit leads to the Riley argument where it should be considered immoral to wear flipflops outside if you know your partner has a foot fetish and did it to arouse them, but only if the INTENT is sexual. Which is impossible to legislate because we can't read minds, and if that changes in the future we would just get literally 1984 and literally Minority Report.
Right? I'm arospec as well. Really wish Vaush had pushed back on the "marriages are necessary for a functioning society" premise. Many of us don't want that. And poly people don't want it to be pairs (or just 1 man and many women).
Was looking for this perspective. I'm aroace and let me tell you, dropping prawn and getting married is about as far from the path through life that would make me happy as you could have it. Arospec gang rise up.
@@tyrellst.hilaire4653I'm late, but it's aromantic. people who experience little to no romantic attraction, and often aren't interested in having romantic relationships. some of them are also asexual, but not all by a long shot.
Purposely abusing studies and rewording them to suit your argument is such a cliche amongst these authoritarians. Sugar is more addictive than heroin, is he going to ban sugar?
Do anti porn people realize you just dont have to watch? It's easy to ignore porn and not see any of it. The only issue with porn is protecting actors from abuse, which is a frequent occurrence in the porn industry
@@kauswekazilimani3736 I suppose it depends on what you consider porn. My internet habits are mainly youtube, reddit, twitter, and sports news. It's easy to accidentally find suggestive pics on Twitter sure, but you can mute / block those users. Are women dressed in clothing that shows off their breasts or legs more considered porn? I just very rarely come across legit porn unless I'm actively seeking it out
@Unstoppable Philosophy there is no freedom of choice. Obviously there’s a limit to what we can watch… let’s talk reality hear not fantasy “ freedom” stuff that doesn’t exist in any nation..
@@kauswekazilimani3736 uh yeah it is dude. You don’t have to project your addiction on other people. We can just stay off of adult sites and put our filters on
2:07:50-2:08:24 This was absolutely devestating, and I couldn't even continue the video afterwards. If someone is proved to be *this* deranged, how can I listen for another hour? Not like he was a genius before that, but Jesus Christ. Banning pics of *CLOTHED* women... I'm speechless! The debate should have seriously ended there. Like a boxing match where someone is knocked unconscious and literally can't continue, in this case from blows to their head caused by themselves.
It is kind of funny to imagine a bonfire where people are burning a bunch of porn magazines, and some dude comes in with several old Sears catalogue and adds them to the fire. So stupid
Him revealing himself to be a titanic nerd tracks with how Allah essentially said that being a nerd is based It's why like 80% of all Islamic architecture is a university
I feel like my love for this channel has been reignited thanks to the content over the past few weeks. I love Vaush going back to his roots. This is what I'm here for
Likewise, I felt like his content had got kinda stale over the course of this year. Some videos were good, but most of them were pretty meh. Now he's back to doing debates and stuff more often I find myself checking in a lot more. :D
@@B10101 Not necessarily. Objectivism is one of the many philosophies held by atheists and includes its own ideas on objective purposes in life. In addition, even when one does become a nihilist, there are different forms. For example, I myself am technically one because I simply don't believe in one objective purpose and instead think one can find one for themselves. Of course, some are the form where they think life is meaningless and not worth living, but those ideas are not inherently tied to eachother, nor is such a combination the norm among atheists, besides maybe the very cringy ones like maybe Thunderf00t, but even then most of those move away from that stance.
@@B10101 religion can't lead anywhere tho. Not just nihilism. It just stops thought, because every truth has already been achieved and life becomes a meaningless repetitive contemplation of the same "truths". More meaningless than nihilism itself.
that's a very popular belief among Muslims. They truly believe that a woman wearing a t shirt justifies her being SA'd. Every time I see a muslim talk about why women should be dressed modestly they always say the same example "Would you walk down the street with $1000 hanging out of your pocket and expect someone to not steal it" like???? The victim blaming is crazy among these people.
Women showing their breasts is illegal which is controlling women’s body and freedom. Double standards. Btw Muslims also believe that visually weirdly harassing or publicly masturbating to a niqabi women should be illegal which is not in multiple countries.
@@chasesutherland1168 victim blaming? Muslims even justify her being SA’d? So the Quran doesn’t tell men to lower their Gaze before telling women to cover? (Quran 24:30) Or the Quran doesn’t say that men who covet over women regardless of their clothes have sickness in their heart? (Quran 33:32) The concept of the “1000 doLlArs AnD ThEFt” means that when showing skin it’s more likely that harassment or r@pe will occur (that’s why it’s the highest in western countries (like the US, France, Sweden) and that’s common sense.
I know, I was thinking, so does learning a language, riding a bike, making a spreadsheet. He didn't establish that the change was bad for the brain... among all the other things he didn't demonstrate.
@@luna-p Bro equated learning a language to watching 5 women (10 t1tties evolutionary) Deepthro@ting, pissed on and taking BBC for 3 times a day every day.
@@luna-p Lmaaao 😂💀 Bro equated learning a new language to watching 5 women you want (10 t1tt1es evolutionary) Deepthro@t1ng, p1ssed on, taking BBC from another men. 3 times a day every day.
i love how he keeps saying that mariage is a solution like if people just wanted to cum they have to get married, i had a debate a long time ago with a muslim saying that you have to marry when you are young and is not okay to have multiple exes
This guy's opening statement contained so much misinformation and slanted data that i literally felt my brain develop 18 tumors while listening to it. It should be censored as a cognitohazard.
@@runimcomingforyou.4505 uhh there were none. To ban porn for what he is saying is to literally ban EVERYTHING. Not to mention comparing butterflies to humans is fallacious and we haven't seen these studies we just have to take his word. We can't check them. He's the one deflecting and it's obvious to everyone that he's hiding his real reasons for porn being bad and it has nothing to do with evidence. Maybe you can't comprehend debate because I see Daniel being the one dodging and deflecting and strawmanning.
“Video games are as addictive today as it was quarter a century ago” Wait till you find out how much video game companies pay biologists to manipulate your brain.
"So I'm going to stick to non-religous arguments: Translation: "I'm going to present scientific data and studies but misinterpret them to fit suit my narrative"
@@B10101 So it's impossible for a Harvard student to misrepresent data? Is that what you're going with? So by that logic all those climate scientists that deny global warming aren't misrepresenting data either, right?
@@luismurillo5855 the existence of Ben Shapiro has made the argument that Harvard graduates are some kind of trustworthy intellectual authority by default completely moot.
Why is it that so many people that are against porn we end up finding out they have a house full of it. I guess they just had all of it for research purposes🙄
@@leandrosanchez1212 Doesn't really map, as alcoholics who say drinking is bad tend to be upfront about being alcoholics. If they were acting "holier then thou", condemning drinking publically while secretly drinking - it''s be a closer analogy.
There’s actually a pretty interesting psychological phenomenon behind this trend. Same reason why some of THE MOST aggressively homophobic pastors get caught blowing dudes behind the Denny’s dumpster at 4am. The answer is self-hate. It’s a mixture of projection and the action of *externalizing an internal struggle.* Human sexuality is a VERY hard thing to repress and fight against, even if you fully believe in whatever weird dogma tells you your feelings are wrong. If you are a devout homophobe or another branch of Puritan but you happen to involuntarily experience the very attractions you think are morally repulsive, well, that’s a recipe for a serious mora crisis and loads of insecurity/shame. They physically can’t stop themselves from being gay or getting turned on when they see some smooth ankles or whatever, but they need to prove that they aren’t hypocrites and that they aren’t “degenerate” So they overcompensate in their crusade. Notice that these are almost always the same people trying to tell you that “degenerate” attractions are a choice. They’re talking about the choice to cave or to torture yourself by suppressing them, because they voluntarily did the latter... They’re fighting with an immutable trait of theirs on the inside, but they have moved the battleground outside in order to cope. They become *radically* hateful against the very people that most remind themselves of the thing inside themself that they are trying to suppress. They’re practically more devoted to the cause than even the regular bigots because the stakes are personally much higher for their sense of self and their “soul”. It’s kind of tragic, honestly.
The kinds of people who constantly equate consenting grown adults to children are the kinds of people I don't trust around either. Seriously put this guy (Daniel) on a list.
Its always funny when the open is like, calm "hey nice to meet you, pleasure to be here" Then juxtaposed with the angry yelled portion of debate is really funny to me
"Lets begin talking about human sociology by talking about butterflies fucking." If he didn't want me dead on the basis of who I am this dude would be hysterical.
Omg I want to throw my head against the wall 10 times every time a person brings up an animal behavioural study to say "and so this is how human do" ARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
There are a very small handful of contexts in which animal behavior studies can be meaningfully correlated to human evolutionary psychology. Literally zero of those involve any of the same bullshit these conservative types bring up. None.
He says early in the debate that polygamy is the answer to being able to have multiple ladies. I wonder what he would have said if Vaush asked if woman can have multiple husbands???
I went to university for games journalism and we covered the 'what counts as a game' question for a LONG time. It's a loose category that people will use in different ways. Do we call people who exclusively play candy crush gamers? Does a game need a win state, if so than minecraft wouldn't be considered a game. Not many people would agree to that. What about 'walking simulators' like dear Esther where the only way to 'lose' is to not walk to the end. Does there need to be a complexity of input? How simple can a games mechanics be before we stop considering it a game? This is what the guy vaush is debating seems unwilling to think about with his 'everyone knows what counts as porn' argument. Stamping hard boundaries into a vague categorization is impossible to do without either overextending those boundaries to paranoidly cover everything, or leave them too ineffectual to accomplish anything meaningful
@@liltree8382 Considering that even Islam's own prophet married a literal child. I'd say that yes, Islam is in fact very bad for people's ability to form healthy relationships that are not exploitative.
Once you remember this guy advocates for child marriage, the entire debate feels kinda... odd.
It’s just one pdf file against another pdf file
Yeah isn't he like "thirteen year olds are fine"
its like game of thrones when season 8 finished, cant go back and see it the same way again when it was live.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 that’s his evil twin Væüšh. Common mistake
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 brother, look at your pfp
He lost me at “a society that mainly consists of happy marriages”
Lol fucking NO It doesn’t.
Lol, fuck no it shouldn't. People should be free to be married or unmarried. Hell, if someone wants to die a virgin or fuck up and down the ladder, they should be free to do so.
Like Vaush said, these people rely on narrativization. This guest's politics are heavily authoritarian and reactionary but he just doesn't care and he creates a lazy narrative to defend himself. Statistics are completely secondary.
And to build on what Elias said, once they use narrativization to make these claims, they can then say any deviation from their narrative is just a result of our deviation from their desired behavior.
"Society doesn't mainly exist of happy marriages."
"Well, THAT'S because pornography and homosexuality makes people deviate from the right way of monogamous, religious families! If there were less gay people and we banned porn, then everyone would be happy in marriage!"
In the meantime, women are en masse burning their hijabs and cutting off their hair in protest due to un-HAPPINESS 🙃
@@whisperingleaves The ones that are not suppressed with the threat of death.
the reason why japanese men are less likely to seek partners is because of the workaholic culture that cuts down the time and energy they can use to find a partner. So they turn to easier sources to satisfy their needs, simply because the harder sources are not feasible. If the easier sources weren't available they wouldn't seek out irl partners because it would still be too hard
This pretty much applies for most of asia.
It sounds like the work life balance is more of the problem
D: "It was shunned throught history"
V: "Here is evidence it wasnt"
D: "Appealing to history is a fallacy"
Freaking hell
Bro some people were communities of thieves in history. Within their community it may have been acceptable. Broadly it was always bad. Same thing with this.
@@AbdulRahman-it1fv The issue with the interaction Michael Seraph pointed out is that D brought up history as an argument, and when V pointed out historical counter-example, instead of accepting he was wrong, he claimed that appealing to history was fallacious, even though he was the one to appeal to history in the first place. It's a demonstration that D isn't concerned with logically valid or with well reasoned arguments as much as he is with trying to push forwards a dogmatic view.
@@henriquepacheco7473 no way. I know daniels way of argument. He may have made that as a statement only. He gave numerous other reasons why it was bad. Timestamp it so i can see for myself. If youre truthful ill concede.
@@AbdulRahman-it1fv You know his way of argument? Can you please explain him stating "Porn is bad because we need to pair-bond" and "Polygamy is the solution to infidelity" within 20 seconds of each other? Is he 'just joking', or is he grasping for anything to defend his preconception?
I thought about including the timestamp but was too lazy. I'll give it 2 min looking for it.
EDIT: found it. it is at the Question at 2:13:44, where someone says that p*rn isn't natural (appeal to nature fallacy) and has been discouraged in history (appeal to tradition fallacy and social proof bias). Daniel then goes on to call the argument coherent and ture at 2:14:26, and claims that it has been stigmatized throught history. They discuss the thing, Vaush demonstrates successfully that p*rn was present throught cultures in history. Then, after a wide range of ad hoc arguments by Daniel, at 2:18:45 he says "You are committing a fallacy by appealing to the past."
The process is not banning gotcha video games, processed foods, gambling. Its putting restrictions on scummy practices and consumer protection. Don't punish the drug addict punish the system and people who got the guy hooked on the drug.
Exactly, those regulations are geared toward manufacturers not individuals
gacha
@@r.h.f.6073 They do gotcha yer money, tho, it's true.
And don't punish the big fat titties.
@@Revan058 but they also gacha yo money
As someone who grew up in a very strict, conservative household, I can assure you that medical texts go in the spank bank if you're desperate enough.
paintings like "The Birth of Venus" and underwear section of Sears catalog
@@Rhodair Lol, I had the paintings you collect in Assassin's Creed II.
@@RhodairNot even the Victoria’s Secret catalog?
@@RhodairI'm a Target catalog man myself
True and factual
This man has moved me. I am removing all cardboard from my life.
Lol
As a degenerate mtg (magic the gathering not the nazi) enjoyer I rescind my wicked ways. I will no longer be besotted by the cardboard but instead have now become an actual wizard as nature intended.
Shit! I thought I was with my wife but I've been fucking a curvy piece of cardboard this whole time!
Based
The cardboard butterfly must have started to smell really nasty after a while, think about all the seed that was put on/in that cardboard, gross.
This guy admitted in the debate that when data conflicts his Islamic beliefs that he would criticize the DATA not his religion
He was just lying when he said that the debate wasn't going to be about religion. These types of extremists in religion can't be debated because they don't believe in reality
Tbf, if you believe that the quran is from god, it would be bizarre to go against it.
@@dave2863 therein lies the problem with organised religion
Many religious people are like that. Same when it comes to morality, they'll try to follow their Holy book instead of facts in reality " It's wrong if God says it's wrong"
@@dave2863 yeah, I’m Muslim… (haven’t watched the vid yet) but there are a few things…I can leave rather than take from our religious doctrine. I feel like it’s way easier to do that as a Christian than a Muslim, but in general I think people should quit policing what other people are doing, if people wanna watch porn or have sex or show their hair or even drink beer? Let them, geez
I've had some quibbles with how vaush did certain debates recently, similar to complaints about footwork, but "should we ban Muslims because of the hate crimes done against them" against a guy like this is perfect form and quick thinking
Got me like 'go horse boy go'
Daniel would agree, he thinks that all Muslims should leave the West and form a Pan Islamic Caliphate
When you find out he believes children should be married you realize he wasnt bringing up child porn becuase he understood why it was bad. He thought it was just some arbitrary like we drew for no reason. He doenst understand age of consent laws so he saw outlawing CP just outlawing feet porn or something.
This shit low-key proves reasoning is more important that the outcome in problem solving.
How does a man who thinks it's okay to rape children come to the conclusion that he has the moral high ground?
Well, he likes unequal power dynamics, that's why.
it always was the norm only under modernity it wasn't and my grandfather married when he was 12 that's 2 generations ago. bring your best argument go ahead.
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty
it always was the norm only under modernity it wasn't and my grandfather married when he was 12 that's 2 generations ago. bring your best argument go ahead.
oxytocin is also released when you pet your dog. as the "pair bonding" hormone, oxytocin is associated with basically every positive social interaction, including non physical interactions like conversation, as a means of chemically reinforcing social cohesion. this includes simulated social interactions, which is why dating sims are a thing.
Ban all dogs!
This man literally wants to make happiness illegal 💀
just reading/watching something releases it, which is why you see so many people in fandom forming parasocial attachments to characters they can't even control like they could in games (superwholock comes to mind immediately).
Oxytocin is also more complex than just "it's the cuddle hormone", it regulates a whole buncha shit, including aggression
Oxytocin is also released through self stimulation of nipples. Enough so that it can bring on labor in a pregnant person.
Vaush asking about whether Muslims should be banned because they cause hate crimes was a brilliant move to burst through Daniel's constant lack of context yes and or no questions.
The fact that he equivocates porn to being married as a way to see booba anyone totally just ignores that your wife is a real person who has to consent and speaks volumes to how he views marriage and women
He does use terms like mate and pair bonding sooooooo I don't think this guys sees marriage for love, but for baby making
@@dantealighieri8403 “ love” wtf is love??? You westerns and this “ love” crap… anyone can love any type of thing even those you find weird..
Yeah that mate bonding or whatever keeps saying is really creepy.
His argument that if you want to see multiple boobs, Islam lets you marry multiple women would probably fall apart if you asked if he would be fine with one woman marrying multiple men because she wants to get gangbanged.
Yes, let us forget that some people in marriages still allows their partner to watch porn because... that's their own personal boundaries and not every relationship should be as black and white lol.
Sir, humans are in fact not butterflies. Not all humans like porn, some prefer the real thing. Having an addiction to porn is bad because it’s an addiction, not because it’s porn. If I had an addiction to apples and only ate apples it would damage my health, that doesn’t mean apples are bad. Also, not everyone wants to get married and have kids…
apples are hot
Subpar argumentation. Obviously some items/behaviors induce addiction more than others. To say heroine = video games because "the addiction is bad not the thing itself" is egregiously childish mentality.
I think we've established he doesn't care about consent 🤢🤮
@@carnivorous_vegan porn is basically video games in your example tho
call me up when we've got porn that acts *directly* on your neuroreceptors
@@carnivorous_vegan low effort bait
Apparently being sexually frustrated leads to happy marriages because butterflies.
Interesting.
it's true, my wife divorced me because i fell in love with a cardboard cutout of pamela anderson. i am so lonely now and it's all because i couldn't resist those seductive 2D curves
I found it funny because fake butterflies females are not in aby way analogus to p since males didn't recignised they are not real.
@@petrfedor1851 right...pheromones.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Sounds like something worth of mentioning, wonder why he didn´t do that. Almost like he is trying to misrepresent science to fit his agenda.
@@petrfedor1851 Projectionist cults always try to manipulate with false "facts" and anything can turn into a cult.
So I decided to look into the whole "porn physically alters the brain" claim, because I'm a biologist and that set off ALL of my bullshit alarms. Based on what I can find, that claim comes from mass media and anti-porn groups misunderstanding or misrepresenting various studies. The closest thing I could find in the literature (though I admit my search wasn't exhaustive) was a couple of studies that indicated that *porn addiction* can cause long-term physical alterations to the brain. Not surprising, as ALL addictive behaviors have that potential. So yeah, that whole talking point was at best poorly sourced and at worst dishonest.
Technically, EVERYTHING alters the brain physically--that's how memories work!
One thing that grinds my gears is how bastardized the word "addiction" has become.
No, saying that you having coffee every morning is not a caffeine addiction; no, saying you crank your hog daily is not a masturbation addiction.
Addiction become such when your DAILY health is being NEGATIVELY affected by the object of your...proclivities (i.e, you're not eating, you're sleeping is off, you're not keeping up with basic hygiene, you're missing work, you're not paying rent, and much more).
@@colt9836 I've given up expecting laypeople to care about proper terminology. We've reached a point in our society where the word "literally" can also mean "figuratively," which is its exact opposite. Actually hoping anyone outside the relevant fields will know or care about the difference between a habit, an addiction, or dependence is too optimistic, especially when there are narratives to be pushed.
You must be a very embarrassing biologist then XD
@@colt9836 caffeine I'd physically addictive though. If you drink coffee everyday and get headaches if you don't that's an addiction.
At first I was pleasantly surprised when Daniel said he would not be arguing from religion, but when he started talking about butterflies I wished he would have stuck to religion.
The reason why was because he needs to have Vaush interact with what's given. Vaush barely knows much about Islam besides his living interactions with Muslims he personally interacts IRL & Sheikh Google he uaed for Streaming purpose to make content when Muslim topics appear. I get it. Maybe if Vaush is interested comparison between there politics without Chat trying to do confirmation bais in Vaush's mind....
@@TazKidNoah The point I was making was that arguing from religion is very weak for a debate, but the whole butterfly thing was just pure nonsense. There is nothing wrong with illustrating the definition of supernormal stimulus with the research on butterflies (also done with baby birds btw), but the way he kept going back to butterflies made it look like he couldn't differentiate the meaningful difference between a bug and adult human being.
@George xander Great straw man, genius. There's a plethora of strong evidence for evolution by natural selection. There's no solid evidence for sky daddy
@George xander How would you know what I have and haven't looked into? Either way, the beauty of science is that all the evidence is there for you to look at yourself. Go read Why evolution is true by Jerry Coyne or watch the evidence for evolution video on RUclips by Beverly biology. It's too much to regurgitate in a comment but evidence comes from embryology, the fossil record, common morphological structures, geographic distribution of species, phylogeny, and molecular biology. The evidence comes from a variety of places. Where's your evidence for the great ghost in the sky that loves you?
@George xander Sigh: the same old tired apologetics. You're betraying your ignorance of what a theory is in science. It's not what colloquially is meant by the word. You're too blinded by bias to see reality
The way Vaush pinned him down with the "it's also hugely important to look at why research results show up the way they do when it comes to social problems and not just go crazy with the ban hammer" part with the opponent not being able to slam down the ban hammer on Muslims being in America was just *chefs kiss*...
If you remove profanity and laughs there is nothing much left in Vaush arguments. He was not on the topic, he did not bring any study, there are just random statements and lots of beard combing :D... ..Vaush is really bad representation of athesim.
@@hawkeye100000 You did not address my initial comment whatsoever. The original argument still stands. The opponent had no response to Vaush's argument there
@@et5600 Banning muslims because of victim of hate is known as victim blaming and in case of porn the victims could be his partner, wife his family. Porn is just a bad tool just like drugs. That was a ridiculous argument.
how it is a pinned down?Explain
LOVING Vaush getting back to his debate roots
Yes more please, I've been going back to listen to Old 2019 and 2020 stuff on his channel
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 how many times do we have to tell you this old man!
More debate, more debate
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 And here I thought a pdf like yourself would be able to spot one of your own!
And losing
Even his first argument was weird and wrong, literally using a research about butterflys and comparing it to humans. And if you don't see how that's wrong, then maybe you should read a biology book or look at a documentary about insects.
Lmfao “butterflies are retarded” was such an amazing point.
Basically his argument is “ban anything which can lead to overconsumption” which is… ban everything.
Amazing system of governance
"Lobsters"
Yeah, I thought the butterfly comparison was strange. Butterflies and humans aren’t really comparable. I think that would be like arguing “Birds die from flying into glass windows, therefore we should ban glass windows so that humans don’t give themselves brain damage by running full force into a glass window.”
Says the dude who's attracted to cardboards.
You've never seen Muslims trying to justify their beliefs?
"No one gets addicted to games like super mario" okay... tell the super mario speedrunning community that lmao
Daniel would of done better if he just stated his beliefs come from his faith and stop the whole charade of pretending he gets them from studies and data. Absurdly transparent and borderline insulting even to the average muslim
So you'll just ignore all the studies and evidences that supports daniels claims just because he's a Muslim? Yes great going there buddy. Those studies aren't made by muslims fyi.
would've. Not would of
@@floki5182 Daniel, when presented with evidence to the contrey from Vaush, reacted by dismissing it and falling back on "morals" while side stepping into alternative scenarios.
Because Danny boy only cares about the data that correlates with his beliefs. Its plain old cherry picking as he is driven by his fundementalist view of his religion and not the science
@@littlemoth4956 Thankyou
Especially considering some of the things that he has said in the past regarding child brides and domestic abuse.
Pornography is responsible for an unhealthy shift in sexual expectations in the same way that romantic comedies are responsible for a shift in romantic expectations. It’s a farcical argument.
Good sexual education is the best avenue for fostering healthy sexual expression, just like learning healthy boundaries and experiencing normal relationships addresses impossible romantic standards. Art exaggerates human experience and changing that is unrealistic and counterproductive.
People can get wild and idealize things based on a “perfect” picture sometimes. We’re not banning every film where people fall in love at first sight. Grow up, man.
Why do you idealize big fat titties. I don't understand, don't understand at all😂
I'm *pretty* sure this guy would hate to live in a world where all people were educated on boundaries and healthy relationships even more than he hates this world where porn is legal.
True, the only reason that porn causes unhealthy expectations is because sex ed is terrible.
Which side is it that wants to make it as bad as possible?
Oh right, Daniel's side.
Once again conservatives causing the problems they complain about.
if romantic comedies are possibly a cause for "unhealthy shift in sexual expectations" maybe romantic comedy is also bad? I know its really hard for you to cope with it but don't be brain dead
@@pomponi0 Wish I was exaggerating, but he argued pro-child marriages after the debate. Dude is a pdf file r*pe supporter pretending to be pure and holy.
I can say my loneliness isn't because of porn.
Porn doesn't keep me away from friends and family for 9-12 hrs a day.
I wish Daniel would just say "I don't like stuff because religion"
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 says the person with Loli shit in their profile lmao
He leads off saying he's going to leave his religion out of the argument because he knows that won't convince anybody, so at least he's realistic there.
@@JackgarPrime Yeah that gave me some hope, and I've seen religious people successfully pull it off, but all his arguments here were based on his religious principles first and foremost
@RealWorld Replying to yourself with your second account certainly isn't based, it's sad.
@@Reticulated_Spline LMAO
This guy had me at the “the best evidence against pornography is a…. Butterfly study”! Okay bud
He used it as an example tho. Maybe if you touch some grass and take a shower your mind would be clearer
@@B10101 The issue is that Butterflies and humans are far far far too different to draw any comparable analysis. it's the same reason we don't test medicine for humans on butterflies for human consumption, they just aren't closely related enough and have very alien perspectives to one another.
@@Yurothehotot The example is valid
@@B10101 He did use it as an example, now, how does the example have anything to do with humans?
Somehow I doubt that the original purpose of that study was to draw a line between butterfly behavior and human behavior. The last common ancestor was eons ago, and prolly to simple to map onto humans or butterflies
the moment when he finally starts reading his sources, and it says nothing about severity at all, just neurological pathways, its almost beautiful
the question said pornography was nowhere as near as drugs,he didnt say more severe.so that study he sited was really all you needed
@@Abbaswaz he said vaguely that it affects the brain as bad as cocane. And the study only says that SOMETIMES it can be addictive through behavioral addiction. Which behavioral is also on food, video games, music, movies, TV, shopping, etc.
@@axelignis3488 Noo,the person in chat said that he was a druggie and that pornography is nowhere as close to drugs and the study sited that pornography has the same nural pathways when it's fired to that of drugs,yes you can form a behavioural addiction to almost anything including reading,but pornography's effect on the brain works exactly like drugs that's what the study sited, please watch that part again
@@Abbaswaz the way the study explained it also could be seen related to how someone can create an addiction to other items (not including drugs or alcohol) like sugar is definitely a great example of this
@@axelignis3488 yes I agree it could be seen as such but let's not forget that the main point was to prove that they were equally the same with regards to effect on the brain,but I wanna know who would you say had a more coherent argument all and all
I read the study he insisted so much on, the one that shows how the structure of the brain changes because of porn
I shit you not, there is a sentence in the conclusion that acknowledges how it's equally as possible that watching porn doesn't predate the variation in brain structure, but rather that the people with those different structures could be predisposed to watching more porn.
The correlation could be literally the opposite of what he claimed and he just dismisses it and never mentions it.
That's because conservatives cherry-pick like a motherfucker.
I also knew about that. This guy just does not care. He wants to manipulate people.
@@duellinksantimeta7636 Absolutely. He doesn't care about the data or the actual truth. He literally says even if the data didn't line up with his preconceived notions, he'd still be against porn regardless. I don't see anything wrong with him using secular arguments to make his case, but if you are honest enough to say that you'd still hold the same opinion despite having no evidence, then you're still making a religious argument, you're just dressing it up with the secular analysis to try and cover that fact so as to convince the non religious. But to do that, you have to have way more data and a way better argument.
Haven't finished, but so far he's taking a big fat L.
Yeah, his use of studies was...funny, to say the least.
I think your lack of education is hindering your comprehension, you couldn't even use the word "predate" properly, second of all, people being pre disposed to something can still make the thing bad. People can be pre disposed to gambling addiction but people will still say gambling in generally bad. So considering you probably lied about the study anyway, you're still wrong.
Muslim guy sounds indistinguishable from most conservative Christians even right down to the sales pitch.
“Suffering from addiction? My religion has the answer!”
Conservatives are pretty similar regardless of the religion they follow.
You should watch his debates with ex-muslims. Dude literally defends slavery and exe...cuting gays
He literally defended marrying 10 yo to maximize fertility... I'm not a Christian apologist, not even for the "moderate" ones but yeah I'll say this is worse.
Moroccan here , when i discovered american conservatives , i found them.... Familiar . We had the same shit in morocco with people too religious. Same shit , different smell.
Christianity and Islam are both Mary Sue FANFICTIONs of Hebrew Mythology. of course theyre the same.
number 1 and 2 from the same anus, worshipping the Mary Sue hebrew god, Yahweh the sexist homophobic bigotted genocidal evil MONSTER god, Thats, like, TOOOOTALLY so much sexier and most powerful of all the gods, and everyone falls in love with him because he's, like, soooo NOT like other girls er gods.
What I dont get is why Red Pilled InCels wont just convert to Islam. Waaaahmen will just be given to them.
Girl, the notion that the French aren't revolting is because they have pr/n is entirely false. The French would literally revolt over the smallest thing.
Authoritarians always think they are being interrupted when they are the worst culprits. They always think they've talked less when they talk SO MUCH. Daniel gives away the game simply with his aggression.
He wants to ban porn, but jacked off to his own voice.
Sus.
My fav part is when he said clothing catalogues should be banned if someone nuts to them lol.
I've nutted to anatomical models and he said those shouldn't be banned. Curious.
Based on that logic every depiction of humans body should be baned.
Rubbing one out to him so he has to take his channel down, Inshallah
I appreciate that Vaush is throwing himself into so many debates lately. There's nobody more experienced at mass debating
He's is a master debater for sure!
He really told this jerk off!
@@TheAmericanAmerican no he’s a masturbator
He is a master debater.
A master debater indeed!
You bringing up the gay adoption point was very telling of what his true intentions were. He doesn't care about what is truly beneficial for society, he only cares about making sure people live in accordance to his religion. If the Quran said child marriage is good (which you could argue for because the main prophet married a child) then in his eyes it would be, even if it destroys the life of that child and produces no objective good besides self pleasure.
I see you haven't watched the last 10 minutes of the video yet.
@@OneEyeShadow last 10 minutes isn’t changing what happened. The guy went on about studies supporting his argument, then when asked about studies supporting something he didn’t, he just didn’t respond.
Watching fundamentalists make "scientific" arguments for anything is beyond parody. 😂
So science is only for atheists? 🤡
just like you people are liberal unfundamentalist - which is just another type of fundamentalist. To an outsider you both seem like the same.
Does it matter?
attack the point not the character
@@yourfavoritedrawer7680 it ABSOLUTELY matters.
If someone disregards the evidence of a process most of the time but then reverts to using it for the things thier prescribed biases already hold you can be very certain they’re arguing in bad faith and only care about this dataset because they think it’s the one people less pilled on thier irrational biases might listen to.
It’s like creationists using those worn footprints that kinda look like human ones to say humans and dinosaurs coexisted, you know they don’t actually care about fossils, they just cherry pick whatever datapoints they can justify to support thier pre established metaphysical beliefs.
@@yourfavoritedrawer7680 they're too dumb and brainwashed, leave it
This dude lost me the moment he said that society “mostly consists of happy marriages and healthy, stable families”
I think I know one person whose parents have anything approximating a happy marriage or stable relationship. Multiple people (myself included) were raised in abusive households. Still others are children of divorce. I know they theoretically exist, but they're rare.
@@IsThatAShortJoke yeah “they exist” and “society is made up of them” are not the same statement.
Nearly half of all marriages end in divorce, this guy lives in a fantasy world.
@@IsThatAShortJoke you hit the nail directly on the head. There's an insane amount abuse happening behind closed doors in families.
My extended family is like wierdly close to eachother so I get all the "behind closed doors gossip" of like 20+ different households. I think in total I can count... 3? that are healthy.
the most important pillar for society is the family unit lol, that's where it all starts and it's corruption is how it ends
He is right though? That’s what a healthy society what need to be to healthy at the most fundamental level, stable families and good marriages
As a liberal Muslim I'm happy to see more left-leaning people challenging conservatives like Daniel, the guy is essentially a Muslim Ben Shapiro.
Your religion is incompatible with your politics. It's not up for debate.
you've perfectly worded what I was thinking masha'Allah
Even worse probably. Daniel got famous for "refuting" american Muslim scholars like Dr. Yasir Qadhi and Omar Suleiman because the Yaqeen institute was "too pro LGTBQ+ " according to him. He takes the most radical positions on every Islamic issue without any understanding of Islamic jurisprudence. His knowledge is laughable and he always reads a prepared opening statement like a script. Thats why no one from the Muslim academics respects this guy, he is just trying to signal boost how hardcore and traditional he is on every issue. He is pretty harmful to the Muslim community I think. Going around debating everyone with absolute nonsense making a mockery of Islam.
You're so sad to the point where you have to change Islam to satisfy liberal standards 🤡
LOL LIBERAL MUSLIM
The clip of Daniel defending child marriage convinced me that he only wants to ban porn so the feds are too busy cracking down on that instead of his cp
LMAO
Bizarre takeaway
@@andrebennett1596 Bizarre to take my comment seriously
That’s funny and all but what about someone arguing to same way without that endgame. Do you remain silent in response to them?
its funny bc hes saying humans are like butterflies despite butterflies only having a million neurons and humans have almost 100 billion neurons
and also he says pr0n causes recreational sex and lack of comitment i watch pr0n and im a virgin explain that
"do you want to be in a loving relationship? porn prevents this"
I am in the happiest relationship i have ever been in after discovering I'm gay THANKS TO PORN. i was miserable and hated the idea of dating untill i realized i liked men through porn.
Ah, see, you discovered that you're gay so that means that you're not *actually* happy. /s
@@AniMana21 fuck ya caught me. To the camps I go.
Pornography helped with me with my sexuality too, even changed my political beliefs.
@@sparky8878off to the *MEGA STRAIGHT ZONE*
Are you still in that relationship Pal?
Prolly not but anyways,
Thanks for confirming that homosexuality is unnaturaI and it’s mostly because of 🌽 addiction “I “discovered” I am gay because of pœrn” which leads to the neediness of Novelty and overstimulation.
"Ask not why the addiction. Ask why the Pain." ~Gabor Mate
I can't help but notice that whenever somebody denounces the "evil," of pornography that the person will always turn out to be a religious type but religion has done more provable harm than anything they imagine pornography doing.
There is something Darkly humorous about that
Human trafficking is still a problem even in the West, wouldent that problem have been solved now that the West is largely secular? Misogyny still exists. There are countless examples of how these problems still persist even in secular societies. How are you assering that religion has caused more problems? The inquisition killed approx 6 to 8 thousand people. The stalinist transformation of Russian society (gulags, collectivization etc) killed millions. How are you asserting what you are asserting? If pornography was an ideal profession that wouldent we be exhorting our friends and family to taking it up? Wouldent job fairs herald it as at the next big thing? There is something obviously wrong with it, natural intuition suggests that there might be something wrong with one's body being turned into a sexualized and de-subjectivized commodity. Have you read some of the feminist interpretations of Porn? I would suggest doing so.
@UCV4lLfubsDpY6S1cff-IB4w Can you even find me one single war that was started via pornography?
No you can't, nor you can you find any ethnic cleansing or discrimination or any other atrocity that has been committed in the name of porn. Religion on the other hand is among the most commonly sighted reasons and justifications for those things. Even human trafficking has been justified by religion and slavery was defended using religion... scientific progress and even human rights have historically found the greatest pushback from the religious.
Now I'm not saying that pornography has never caused any bad things to happen. But I am saying that we need to stop acting as if porn is the great evil of society when religion is constantly given a free pass despite being objectively worse on an exponentially massive level.
you need to educate yourself
@@Shayed. Religion has started Wars it has been used as justification for all manner of persecution throughout human history even to the present... porn has done neither
@@artisticcannibalism1350 Your claim suggests that religion has had, historically, the most destructive effect on human communities. I would question that by asking you to look at the scale and impact of destruction wrought by secular communities in the 20th century. The most sanguinary wars fought by our species were not motivated by religious impulses but by distinctly modern ideologies, I.e. communism and fascism. Blaming religion is a panacea, it quite frankly obscures more than it reveals.
Porn is bad because a scientist studied Butterflies. This is this guys argument.
Nothing wrong with porn, just need to do it in moderation. Some people are more prone to addictive behaviors than other people. End of story.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 Wow, you sure are into Islamofascism.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 I didn't even listen/watch the debate. I watched the first few minutes, but it would be good for vaush to lose once in a while.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 You've replied on practically every comment negatively, pretty sure it isn't OP who's upset...
R/nofap says which is a study in & of itself says otherwise.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 "Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0" I didn't know coomers could be against porn too
“i’m going to stick to non religious arguments”
🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋
He basically gave it all away when he admitted that chicks in tight sweaters should be banned too. I could use all the same arguments he uses for banning porn as reasons we should ban religion and his arguments for why we should not ban religion would be all the same arguments Vasuh is making against banning porn.
If women covered themselves more it would be less distracting for men and would make their lives much easier..
@@zawazawa17why would women be responsible for making men's lives easier?
I'm surprised he didn't just disconnect to preserve his purity as soon as Vaush suggested that society is experienced "from the bottom up"
Bottom up 🤔
Bottom's up! *90% of Vaush's audience stands up*
@@fishbiter9409I mean to be fair implying that a someone is a bottom means that actually get some.
Watching Vaush pull out his sociology degree on some unwitting fool will never not be based.
Daniel is a Harvard graduate while Vaush did some online courses in Hustlers university, you absolute clown 🤡
The unwitting fool has a masters in philosophy from Harvard
it always was the norm only under modernity it wasn't and my grandfather married when he was 12 that's 2 generations ago. bring your best argument go ahead. MUSTAFA KAMAL ATTAJEW 🏳️🌈✡
@@teenztown He should get a refund
@@lrose5522 Vaush should get a refund. I can't believe Americans would defend things because of which their societies are collapsing... Anyways your whole country is sitting on a time b... omb
This is what always happens in my experience, when people believe things for (at least mostly) religious reasons, and then try to argue those beliefs without mentioning their religion. They can't do it. They're just reasoning backwards from their religious conclusion, and somehow the religion always seeps back in the second they're out of their limited ammo.
Yep, Bubbler Shabimbo admitted as much. There's a quote to the effect of "I don't believe god made stupid rules, so I find evidence that explains why the rules god gave us are correct."
Me, a Muslim, watching this 😬
why does he think butterfly behaviour would map onto human behaviour
To be fair I can see alot of people picking cardboard over real people lmao.
doesn't matter what religion or no religion we all can fall victim to being dumb
@@callumfinlayson-palmer8393 oh definitely 💀
@@brennanlable yea but it's just extra cringe to see someone similar to you be so stupid. like a cherry on top that you don't want
@@brennanlable This is true, the problem is that *certain* religions demonize doubt and questioning. We're all vulnerable to being dumb, but we should have a way to climb out of that hole...and the Abrahamics vilify the ladder that would allow it.
The way he went full-ass mask-off when Vaush dipped out the call was HILARIOUS because it put the entire exchange in a new light.
Woahhhh need a link on that! Sounds entertaining
@@sunfeatherX3 He started talkin' REAL open about how "Actually child marriage is SUPER fuckin' BASTE actually because [Stupid bullshit attempts at justification]"
I'll find a timestamp in the VOD lmao
@@sunfeatherX3 Even in THIS video at 3:14:57 there's an example of him saying HILARIOUS amounts of fuck-shit.
@@sunfeatherX3 yessss I need this
Link? 👀
"Super Mario isn't addicting." All video games can be. My great uncle dropped out of high-school to play Pac-Man. Sounds like an addiction to me.
Not all video games are equal or have the same level of addictiveness or hooking the person in it obviously. Playing Super Mario bros, Sonic or Donkey Kong country is not the same as playing Skyrim or Elden Ring Witcher 3 or Gothic 3 or whatever.
@@GoyimFlatEarther I agree, that's why my argument is that video games CAN be. I'm a gamer who's addicted to Fire Emblem
So throughout that entire opening statement the only thing I heard was that porn causes less sexual harassment and sexual assault because people are too busy watching porn to do that. I don't even know how true that is but that's essentially what he's arguing with the butterfly example right?
Also he never once answered the question "Where do you draw the line?" He just kept responding with "No, where do YOU draw the line Vaush?" Oh my god lol.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 Well clicking on your account was a huge mistake. And you're the one calling me a gr00m3er? Nice projection.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 Coming from the guy with loli porn all over his channel
@Cultured Anime Waifu 2.0 >Russian Waifu alt account.
At this point the meme has dried up. I'm genuinely concerned for you
@@wack8697 That's the... I guess joke is the best description for it
@@wack8697 So make an argument instead of "nuh-uh".
this no porn guy and Mr girl seem perfect for each other 👀 especially after his child marriage argument
this porn guy and Mr girl seem perfect for each other 👀 especially after his big fat titties argument
Why did you have to remind me of the mr girl debate?
When does the child marriage part come up?
Doesn't Mrgirl literally have a pornhub channel? I didn't know he was anti-porn
I mean young girls have boyfriends in the west
The disagreement here is not about 6 rather its about should we allow 6 outside of marriage
In religious society u cannot have 6 with no marriage so people get married early
50:08 this guys biggest self report, that he thinks meaningful relationships are based entirely on sex.
Edit: by the way this comment was written by a demisexual who did not understand that there was a name for what he was, which caused a huge amount of frustration in his dating life, until I heard about it on a Vaush stream. Sincerely, thank you Ian, even older guys like me can benefit from what you have to say .
Can we stop using the ability to form a relationship as the benchmark for how bad "the movies" are. I have no desire to be in a relationship. I don't have the emotional, mental, or social wherewithal to maintain a relationship. If I haven't seen or heard from someone in 2 days I practically forget they're even alive. I've been like that even before "the movies" came into my life. I just need 10 minutes alone to milk the venom out.
I hear you, never mind the work relationship are.
,
AGREED
@TheScholar74 may i know where you're from sir?
Thats mentally ill. Its not your fault but you shouldnt portray your illness as normal
@@ihzakarunia2408 Floriduh. Why?
The only problem I have with Vaush debates is he usually crushes it within the first half hour and I don't have the patience for a 3 hour video. Must be addicted to RUclips shorts or something.
Yeah i feel especially with the debates on social issues that Vaush almost always wins the debate decisivly at half an hour. Then there is just an additional couple hours of idiot rambling. That idiot rambling can be really entertaining though.
Totally off topic here, Vaush, but I have to go here: Thanks for letting me finally get a good look at your cat! I'm obsessed with cats - they're my addiction... Also, I'm a 66 year old boomer who recently stumbled on your material. I love watching you shred some of these idiots. Keep it up!!
Based boomers are always welcomed here! Cat on, Stephen. Cat on! 😁
Every bad boy has the normal looking cat AND the raw chicken-looking cat
"Okay fine, you win. It should be illegal for Muslim men to look at porn." - How the debate should have started and ended
Then it isn't a debate.
Average discord mod
It should be illegal for Muslim men to look at big fat titties, YES
Abrahamism is pretty unique in that it demands not only that its own adherents follow its laws, but also everyone else.
@@Nerobyrne So what's the problem?
I initally would agree with Daniel, but he's just so incompetent and dishonest that I could not possibly give him the win.
Like that whole gay adoption part. Vaush didn't say "no" he asked "why?" And Daniel proceeds as though he said "no." That's so dishonest
Props to this guy for not even trying to hide that he's acting in bad faith right from his intro
Daniel or vaush? Because Daniel didn't make a single ad hominem throughout the entire debate while vaush did
@@superhydra8873 Ok... and...?
@@blinkx1070 I was asking you who you were talking about, but since you asked, vaush lost the debate and changed the topic multiple times
@@superhydra8873 howd vaush lose? He won as soon as he got the other guy in a corner about gay adoption. And also insult facists is fine!
@@shooshoo4590 Lol I'm sorry that you think that...
45 minutes in and with this polygamy talk I’m wondering if it’s ever asked if a woman can have multiple husbands
Men die in war, so there is more women than men. That's why polygamy is the best option
We know the answer, and I bet his will come with a smirk
He specifically said high value males, we know how he thinks
No. We aint cucks. Men and women are different. You cant transition and get 4 either. So dont try that trick ditto.
Men unlike women are evolutionarily born to impregnate as many women as he can (harsh but facts).
Tons of people are in terrible relationships and terrible abusing marriages. This guy ain’t it.
I love how Vaush goes from passive aggressive to just plain talking shit.
It's a key part of his strategy. He often will start making fun of his opponent once all their arguments are rebutted and they continue to push them, because you can't do much else at that point.
@goldensword02 No Bitches?
@goldensword02
I mean, that is what you are going to get once you decide to debate with Vaush. His strategies are well known.
@goldensword02 Daniel is saying porn should be forbidden because porn fucks with people's minds. When Vaush asked him whether we should ban everything that fucked with people's minds, Daniel hinted that he would be ok banning everything that would fuck with people's minds. a slippery slope implies that going from A to B isn't as obvious as the sophist declares, but Daniel conceeded that. Daniel conceeds that because, if you read the first bit about the guy, a literal theological dystopia based on the least charitable intepretations of Islam is the way to go. The guy is for fucking slavery and thinks that the majority of the muslim world being opposed to it is them being influenced by liberal propaganda.
Vaush's point is pretty simple and derived from classic sociological analysis. Most people who watch porn, most people who drink, most people who eat do so in a non addictive way. And it oh so happens that the ones who don't have other shit going on in their lives that compels them to ultimately fall in an addiction. How about working on that rather than
Reputable sources my ass, every study should be discuted and disputed way before the debates because Daniel would obviously try to bias every study result and conclusion to make it bend with his world view. Butterflies fucking cardboard do not mean shit. They rushed into what they felt were the most attractive mates like the literal automaton insects thet always were.
and like he said, if god encouraged porn, he'd be all for it, and would be actively defending the other point. Daniel is the ultimate sophist because he's trying to make science converge with religion like Galileo's detractors. if god forbids porn, abide by it and don't ask questions on why or how. there is literally no scientific reason to explain why pork cant be eaten today or why you should say bismillah before slaughtering cattle, so why fucking bother in the first place.
@goldensword02 and the gay adoption question?
One aspect that always gets ignored in porn debates is that a lot of kinks and shit doesn't need barely any nudity what so ever. Will we have to ban Godzilla movies because there's people into macro? I mean I know damn well that what got me into macro wasn't porn, it was a fucking boss battle from a video game
based
Well a counter argument to that I could see someone making is that regardless of those things cause kinks and fetishes they are not overtly sexual. (What is overtly sexual tends to very from culture to culture) Because even though yes anything, even innocent things can create fetishes (I know from personal experience) That doesn't mean we should ban them because they are not overtly sexual. (Keep in mind I am only playing devil's advocate here)
Another thing that gets ignored in porn debates is that you don't even need porn to develop kinks, though obviously access to porn accelerates going down the pathway that was "set" for you by early, distinct experiences in life. Like it is preposterous to make porn responsible for kink itself.
I found out I was into vore by watching nature documentaries as a kid
Conclusion: we need to ban National Geographic
@@airlesscanvas6425 The counterargument to that is that there is no inherent moral weight to things that are overtly sexual.
This shit leads to the Riley argument where it should be considered immoral to wear flipflops outside if you know your partner has a foot fetish and did it to arouse them, but only if the INTENT is sexual. Which is impossible to legislate because we can't read minds, and if that changes in the future we would just get literally 1984 and literally Minority Report.
As someone who is aro, this guy is just dropping three hours of reaffirming my life choices
Right? I'm arospec as well. Really wish Vaush had pushed back on the "marriages are necessary for a functioning society" premise. Many of us don't want that. And poly people don't want it to be pairs (or just 1 man and many women).
Was looking for this perspective. I'm aroace and let me tell you, dropping prawn and getting married is about as far from the path through life that would make me happy as you could have it.
Arospec gang rise up.
What is aro?
@@tyrellst.hilaire4653i believe aromantic
@@tyrellst.hilaire4653I'm late, but it's aromantic. people who experience little to no romantic attraction, and often aren't interested in having romantic relationships. some of them are also asexual, but not all by a long shot.
Purposely abusing studies and rewording them to suit your argument is such a cliche amongst these authoritarians. Sugar is more addictive than heroin, is he going to ban sugar?
Do anti porn people realize you just dont have to watch? It's easy to ignore porn and not see any of it. The only issue with porn is protecting actors from abuse, which is a frequent occurrence in the porn industry
Incel
Its not easy to ignore porn. Especially if you were born from the 90s onwards.
@@kauswekazilimani3736 I suppose it depends on what you consider porn. My internet habits are mainly youtube, reddit, twitter, and sports news. It's easy to accidentally find suggestive pics on Twitter sure, but you can mute / block those users. Are women dressed in clothing that shows off their breasts or legs more considered porn? I just very rarely come across legit porn unless I'm actively seeking it out
@Unstoppable Philosophy there is no freedom of choice. Obviously there’s a limit to what we can watch… let’s talk reality hear not fantasy “ freedom” stuff that doesn’t exist in any nation..
@@kauswekazilimani3736 uh yeah it is dude. You don’t have to project your addiction on other people. We can just stay off of adult sites and put our filters on
Started watching this debate, and i gotta say, this guy has some valid points about model of human beha... A LAMP!
Aww, fuck, that lampshade is so colorful.
Can't read, am drinking sugar water
How much do you want to bet this guy furiously masters his bait to MLP rule 34 while watching Vaush on his second monitor.
What's MLP?
@@yourneighborhoodfriendlyme4242 My little pony
Those MLP gore videos.
@@serena841 Nooooo
@@bonthebunnycat667
:)
2:07:50-2:08:24
This was absolutely devestating, and I couldn't even continue the video afterwards. If someone is proved to be *this* deranged, how can I listen for another hour? Not like he was a genius before that, but Jesus Christ. Banning pics of *CLOTHED* women... I'm speechless!
The debate should have seriously ended there. Like a boxing match where someone is knocked unconscious and literally can't continue, in this case from blows to their head caused by themselves.
It is kind of funny to imagine a bonfire where people are burning a bunch of porn magazines, and some dude comes in with several old Sears catalogue and adds them to the fire. So stupid
Him revealing himself to be a titanic nerd tracks with how Allah essentially said that being a nerd is based
It's why like 80% of all Islamic architecture is a university
I feel like my love for this channel has been reignited thanks to the content over the past few weeks. I love Vaush going back to his roots. This is what I'm here for
Likewise, I felt like his content had got kinda stale over the course of this year. Some videos were good, but most of them were pretty meh. Now he's back to doing debates and stuff more often I find myself checking in a lot more. :D
Vaush absolutely destroyed this guy's arguments. Good work!
This is why religion should stay out of government and media period
Atheism leads to nihilism
@@B10101 Not necessarily. Objectivism is one of the many philosophies held by atheists and includes its own ideas on objective purposes in life. In addition, even when one does become a nihilist, there are different forms. For example, I myself am technically one because I simply don't believe in one objective purpose and instead think one can find one for themselves. Of course, some are the form where they think life is meaningless and not worth living, but those ideas are not inherently tied to eachother, nor is such a combination the norm among atheists, besides maybe the very cringy ones like maybe Thunderf00t, but even then most of those move away from that stance.
@@B10101 Anything can lead to nihilism. Including a religion.
@@kauswekazilimani3736 Cap, religion can't lead to nihilism.
@@B10101 religion can't lead anywhere tho. Not just nihilism. It just stops thought, because every truth has already been achieved and life becomes a meaningless repetitive contemplation of the same "truths". More meaningless than nihilism itself.
Feels like 2019 and it's definitely a sign of trauma that 2019 feels like a simpler time.
It wasn't really harped on enough, but he admitted that *women wearing tight clothes* should be banned.
That really should have been a bigger deal.
that's a very popular belief among Muslims. They truly believe that a woman wearing a t shirt justifies her being SA'd. Every time I see a muslim talk about why women should be dressed modestly they always say the same example "Would you walk down the street with $1000 hanging out of your pocket and expect someone to not steal it" like???? The victim blaming is crazy among these people.
Women showing their breasts is illegal which is controlling women’s body and freedom.
Double standards.
Btw Muslims also believe that visually weirdly harassing or publicly masturbating to a niqabi women should be illegal which is not in multiple countries.
@@chasesutherland1168
victim blaming? Muslims even justify her being SA’d?
So the Quran doesn’t tell men to lower their Gaze before telling women to cover? (Quran 24:30)
Or the Quran doesn’t say that men who covet over women regardless of their clothes have sickness in their heart? (Quran 33:32)
The concept of the “1000 doLlArs AnD ThEFt” means that when showing skin it’s more likely that harassment or r@pe will occur (that’s why it’s the highest in western countries (like the US, France, Sweden) and that’s common sense.
everything you do or experience "changes your brain." that's what a consciousness is.
I know, I was thinking, so does learning a language, riding a bike, making a spreadsheet. He didn't establish that the change was bad for the brain... among all the other things he didn't demonstrate.
@@luna-p
Bro equated learning a language to watching 5 women (10 t1tties evolutionary) Deepthro@ting, pissed on and taking BBC for 3 times a day every day.
@@luna-p
Lmaaao 😂💀 Bro equated learning a new language to watching 5 women you want (10 t1tt1es evolutionary) Deepthro@t1ng, p1ssed on, taking BBC from another men. 3 times a day every day.
Pornography is when butterflies
i love how he keeps saying that mariage is a solution like if people just wanted to cum they have to get married, i had a debate a long time ago with a muslim saying that you have to marry when you are young and is not okay to have multiple exes
This guy's opening statement contained so much misinformation and slanted data that i literally felt my brain develop 18 tumors while listening to it. It should be censored as a cognitohazard.
But all the red herrings, strawman's and deflections by Vaush didn't? Maybe you can't even comprehend the debate tbh...
consider yourself lucky it was only 18 tumors
@@runimcomingforyou.4505 uhh there were none. To ban porn for what he is saying is to literally ban EVERYTHING. Not to mention comparing butterflies to humans is fallacious and we haven't seen these studies we just have to take his word. We can't check them. He's the one deflecting and it's obvious to everyone that he's hiding his real reasons for porn being bad and it has nothing to do with evidence.
Maybe you can't comprehend debate because I see Daniel being the one dodging and deflecting and strawmanning.
@@runimcomingforyou.4505 cope
list the so called misinformation. accusing someone misinformation without providing any is lame. talk is cheap
Everytime this guy says 'pairbonds' all I hear is the Omegaverse calling out to me.
God I'm such a bottom
Dude would totally be a beta
Thanks I hate it!
"Mario is not addicting, but Fortnite is"
Wait until he learns about the Speedrunning community."
“Video games are as addictive today as it was quarter a century ago”
Wait till you find out how much video game companies pay biologists to manipulate your brain.
Any good thing: Exists
This guy: ”Actually, p0rn0graphy disrupts this!”
"So I'm going to stick to non-religous arguments: Translation: "I'm going to present scientific data and studies but misinterpret them to fit suit my narrative"
I'm sure you can interpret them better than a Harvard graduate 🤣🤡
@@B10101 appeal to authority from the baby brained authoritarian
@@B10101 So it's impossible for a Harvard student to misrepresent data? Is that what you're going with? So by that logic all those climate scientists that deny global warming aren't misrepresenting data either, right?
@@luismurillo5855 the existence of Ben Shapiro has made the argument that Harvard graduates are some kind of trustworthy intellectual authority by default completely moot.
@@B10101 i lost it when ian flexed his sociology degree haha. Thats like a battle droid flexing on darth vader.
V: "To you, the empirics don't matter"
This guy: "Doesn't matter to you either"
If that ain't a self-own of a "no u" attempt idk what is!
It's easy to be stable when you're chained down to the point of immobility.
Why is it that so many people that are against porn we end up finding out they have a house full of it. I guess they just had all of it for research purposes🙄
People who are alcoholics and say drinking is bad also tend to drink
Yeah he's somebody would be caught watching porn and his excuse would be like "well its okay for me because Im married"
@@leandrosanchez1212 Doesn't really map, as alcoholics who say drinking is bad tend to be upfront about being alcoholics. If they were acting "holier then thou", condemning drinking publically while secretly drinking - it''s be a closer analogy.
There’s actually a pretty interesting psychological phenomenon behind this trend. Same reason why some of THE MOST aggressively homophobic pastors get caught blowing dudes behind the Denny’s dumpster at 4am.
The answer is self-hate.
It’s a mixture of projection and the action of *externalizing an internal struggle.*
Human sexuality is a VERY hard thing to repress and fight against, even if you fully believe in whatever weird dogma tells you your feelings are wrong. If you are a devout homophobe or another branch of Puritan but you happen to involuntarily experience the very attractions you think are morally repulsive, well, that’s a recipe for a serious mora crisis and loads of insecurity/shame. They physically can’t stop themselves from being gay or getting turned on when they see some smooth ankles or whatever, but they need to prove that they aren’t hypocrites and that they aren’t “degenerate”
So they overcompensate in their crusade.
Notice that these are almost always the same people trying to tell you that “degenerate” attractions are a choice. They’re talking about the choice to cave or to torture yourself by suppressing them, because they voluntarily did the latter...
They’re fighting with an immutable trait of theirs on the inside, but they have moved the battleground outside in order to cope. They become *radically* hateful against the very people that most remind themselves of the thing inside themself that they are trying to suppress. They’re practically more devoted to the cause than even the regular bigots because the stakes are personally much higher for their sense of self and their “soul”.
It’s kind of tragic, honestly.
@@thecynth3820 most people who advocate against porn are open about their consumption so it does map
I feel like Asexuality refutes like half his points
But he doesn't believe in asexuality anyways, he's medieval-brained
The kinds of people who constantly equate consenting grown adults to children are the kinds of people I don't trust around either. Seriously put this guy (Daniel) on a list.
According to several comments he advocates for child marriage
@@Gloomdrake Wouldn't surprise if that were true.
all muslims, or anyone with a muslim or muslim sounding name, is probably already on a list.
@@icantbelieveitsbutt3rs590 usually for invalid reasons, which is pretty awful
Its always funny when the open is like, calm "hey nice to meet you, pleasure to be here"
Then juxtaposed with the angry yelled portion of debate is really funny to me
my favorite is when vowsh ends a heated debate by declaring his love for all involved. especially when the opponent is a homophobic dude
mans really opened his argument with "consider the butterfly"
Everyone knows humans are just glorified ants
"Lets begin talking about human sociology by talking about butterflies fucking."
If he didn't want me dead on the basis of who I am this dude would be hysterical.
This convo shows that US atheists are willing to be as hard on Muslims as they are on Christians.
Its not about culture, its about the persons ideas
Muslims and Christians are very similar
@@streamerssaymyname atheism leads to nihilism
@@B10101 Optimistic nihilism is a thing yes.
@@B10101 we will cast down your fake idols from your temples and turn them into holy servers for the machine
"Higher value men"...this so red pill
Doesn't matter if it is or isn't. Porn is freedom.
@Lobotomy Technology you can get addicted from cigarettes should we ban cigarettes? (Genuinely asking a question)
yoooo it's wrecklesseating! glad y'all are based, been a while since i watched your stuff.
@Lobotomy Technology Anything that gives us a good feeling can be addictive. Hope you recover.
@Lobotomy Technologythe vast majority of people watch porn without becoming addicted
@Lobotomy Technology time to ban EVERYTHING then, since you can get addicted to anything.
Omg I want to throw my head against the wall 10 times every time a person brings up an animal behavioural study to say "and so this is how human do"
ARRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
There are a very small handful of contexts in which animal behavior studies can be meaningfully correlated to human evolutionary psychology.
Literally zero of those involve any of the same bullshit these conservative types bring up. None.
breaking news new study reveals humans breath like other animals
He says early in the debate that polygamy is the answer to being able to have multiple ladies. I wonder what he would have said if Vaush asked if woman can have multiple husbands???
I went to university for games journalism and we covered the 'what counts as a game' question for a LONG time. It's a loose category that people will use in different ways. Do we call people who exclusively play candy crush gamers? Does a game need a win state, if so than minecraft wouldn't be considered a game. Not many people would agree to that. What about 'walking simulators' like dear Esther where the only way to 'lose' is to not walk to the end. Does there need to be a complexity of input? How simple can a games mechanics be before we stop considering it a game? This is what the guy vaush is debating seems unwilling to think about with his 'everyone knows what counts as porn' argument. Stamping hard boundaries into a vague categorization is impossible to do without either overextending those boundaries to paranoidly cover everything, or leave them too ineffectual to accomplish anything meaningful
Allah frowns on Daniel's performance here.
ban cardboard NOW
Does the idea that Islam promotes healthy relationships and sexuality even need a rebuttal?
Ironic when Y’all literally support LGBT then try to act like that lifestyle promotes healthy relationships 🤡
@@liltree8382 god people like you are evil
@@liltree8382 Considering that even Islam's own prophet married a literal child. I'd say that yes, Islam is in fact very bad for people's ability to form healthy relationships that are not exploitative.
@@liltree8382 that's funny cause there's nothing inherently more unhealthy about LGBT relationships than straight ones 🤡🤡
@@liltree8382 lol