What does Level 5 Drywall mean?
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2020
- This term gets thrown around a lot by architects, designers and contractors but many people don't know what it really means. This video explains the differences between the levels of drywall finishing.
Here is an in depth document if you want even more info on the subject.
www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_M... 
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My friend wanted me to help finish his drywall. Kept saying "I'm only going to take it to a level 4" like he was saving us a bunch of work. I was like bro I only know two levels done and not done 😆
Lol. Level 4 is the standard.
@@joohsay agreed however my level 4 has no scratches and i never paint without primer coating first
You pay for five and get maybe a two
Love this channel. No matter how short or mundane a video might appear to some, there will be at least one nugget of info that makes a huge difference for for guys like me that are not pro's.
I've been painting for over a decade. If you want a good finish, without skimming the wall, you can use a "high build" primer. Its important to take your time rolling it evenly, but it will hold the texture of the roller even over the different parts of a level 4 tape job.
This is not your cheap drywall primer, or pva primer... It does cost more but it will definitely be worth it on new drywall.
so is it like a thick paint?
I love high build. It’s also pretty great on concrete with a bunch of holes. Mix in some concrete primer and spray
Can you send this smooth?
I wondered about this, I've painted quite a few cars and thats what is done, building primer, sand, shoot, wet sand, cut, buff. I was asking drywallers about this recently because I need to do my house and doing something that I already know seems a whole lot easier than learning how to skim coat while my wife asks me "are you done, are you sure you know how to do that".....
The cut off between architectural finish levels will always be debated, but you just gave a great presentation clarifying all.
I came to these videos for tips on drywalling my kitchen reno. I stayed and subbed for the fussy drywaller bit. Keep up the great work! Very entertaining
I love this channel. It has almost literally walked me through my entire drywall project. What's funny is everytime I feel like I'm hitting a wall(puns) I will take a break, watch a couple videos and go back to the project sometimes with better skills, and sometimes looking at what I've done like wtf this isn't acceptable! I'm at this level 4 to 5 stage in my project and I've kept bouncing around like damnit it's not good enough and then damnit I'm done with this project it's good enough let's put the paint on there and move on! I think I'm finally ready to move on to the next part of the project. Thanks Vancouver Carpenter! Keep up the good content!
Thanks for clarifying the levels! An bright oblique (low angle) light amplifies any imperfections, and can be used to check work. Also, sanding with a finer (150) grit rather than coarser (100) grade eliminates the sanding marks. With painting, a shorter nap roller (1/4") puts down a smooth finish revealing all, where a 3/8" nap will pebble a bit to make the surface texture more consistent- flat paints will hide texture, glossier paints will reveal it.
I’ve used a product call First Coat on a level 4 finish. Supposed to bring the textures of the mud and paper to about the same smoothness. Then two coats of flat paint and it looked great. Even some egg-shell finish looked good.
This was described very well. I’m going to refer to this every time an owner is telling me the finisher and painter did a bad job when there’s a light washing down on a level 4 wall.
At 3 mins in THANK YOU SO MUCH YOU SAVED ME SO MUCH TIME. I thought a lvl 5 was to "level" everything out, I didn't realize it was just to blend compound w existing drywall. Thank you a million
Nailed it! USG actually has a handbook guide that has detailed rules how levels should be. At one point they spec'd their First Coat sealer for I believe Level 5 and also the surface to be primed and sealed Before textures applied so they are uniform. I never did this myself as when I seen it done the texture had a lot more Porosity (or air pinholes) in it when dry. Now a days they make those HUGE skim tools and you roll the mud on like you demonstrated in your other videos but we'd always thin down All purpose (Green lid) and spray it on with a .017 tip and if you got lucky and no plug ups you could get a nice coat on the walls and ceiling with very little sanding needed and no paper fuzz.
My whole house was like level 2 max and thanks to your videos I'm getting them up to level 5 since every room has huge windows!
A coat of sealing primer and 2 coats of paint all with at least a half inch nap usually does the trick with the same “stipple” throughout the wall
That's exactly how I like to do it🙂🙌
@@vancouvercarpenter Why didn't you mention sealing primer in you video. I've never seen anyone coat the entire surface of drywall with mud, seems ridiculous.
@@sofakingwetodddid8824 Do you work on construction sites? It's not that uncommon, but usually it's on renos if you have old textured walls or removed wallpaper. Sometimes it's easier to just cover the walls with 1\4" drywall instead of trying to fix all the holes and imperfections.
Yep, I did one ceiling at a 5 and promptly gave up after that. At least with ceilings no one should be getting close enough to even spot the barely noticeable difference
@@deckmonkey1459 , Been there too. Had a wallpapered bathroom with water damage. Had to remove all the paper, and cut away all the soaked drywall.
The glue from the wallpaper left no choice but to mud, and sand the entire room. Looked great when I finished, but it was a good bit of work.
Awesome Topic, many thanks for explaining!
Indeed I was wondering, because I have heard this expression on one of the Home Improvement Series on TV. But since I discovered RUclips and of course your channel as well, I hardly watch TV any more. This is so much better.
🙂 thank you
Outstanding! I appreciated learning about the levels and finishes.
Excellent explanation... again! Thank you sir for your clear and succinct presentations!
Just did a level 5 today. Turned out great. Love your videos. Keep them coming.
What method did you use to get level 5? Thanks
@@lrc87290 After my 2nd coat, i skimmed out the walls with a 14in knife. Super smooth.
@@SuperSkyScorcher Thanks!
I was paying very close attention and around 2:20, I noticed my screen was cracked along the right side but realized it was your lens, wheew. Thank you for providing great info.
Great video. Informative, quick and concise, and not overdone.
Great explanation Ben. Keep them coming. Thank you
every time I watch his videos I learn something new!
Is that not the point?
Thank you for this informative talk on drywall. Very nice. Thanks for posting.
I LOVE that sample board you made. Good work.
I would have loved to see your sample include priming first then paint AS WELL as prime, 220 sand then paint. I do the pole sand after prime and it's night and day.
Always the best content on this channel. 😃👍
Excellent explanation. Thank you, VC
I use PVA drywall primer before painting. That always gives the surface a uniform look.
charles ray i agree
Also known as Drywall sealer. I would NEVER finish drywall in a living area without using a sealer before top coat painting. The wall would even be inspected after the sealer is applied and any blemishes in the mud corrected before top coat painting.
On all the homes I built we would bring the painters in after the finishers had everything coated and sanded and said they were finished but as all of you know, you can’t see anything till you have something on the walls to cover the rock and level everything out. I preferred using a PVA primer with some sort of color in it, nothing dark, usually just a light tan, relocation beige, etc. this makes it much, much easier to see any problems.
Painters would go thru and spray out the entire home and the spray guy would have his partner coming right behind him with a roller and he would backroll everything that was sprayed which would even out the primer and put roller nap texture everywhere and it would help conceal the spots that had been coated with mud versus the Sheetrock paper. This is a must if your going with a smooth finish which 99% of mine were. If your doing a knockdown or an orange peel or any of the other textures that are popular in states like California and others then you can skip this step.
Once everything had been coated and back rolled, the finishers would come back to do a point up which was when we would go thru and inspect every inch of board and mark any defects. This is where you’ll be thankful for adding tint to the primer. The finishers would then fix all defects and then the painter would come back and retouch his primer once again otherwise you will see those repairs once paint goes on.
If you follow this procedure then you can feel comfortable with all the pot lights in the world being on the walls along with the biggest windows bringing in all the natural light and you will not see a fastener, you will not see a taper joint, and you will not see a butt joint. Yes it takes a bit more time, a bit more labor and material, but you’ll never get a call back because the wife can see the tape joint running all the way around the dining room at 8pm every night when they sit down for dinner. There are certain steps for a quality job and you have to hit every one of them for a good finish, if you skip just one your gonna regret it.
Take care guys, stay safe out there!!
Why in the world would anyone not prime before applying $80/gal paint?
@@mazzystr $80 per gallon paint ! NO contractor pays that, no matter what brand. That is consumer pricing for home owners that go to the paint store an spend a hour there trying to decide on the colour. Trade price is half at most!
That was excellent. I needed a good primer right now and that was well done
I learned everything I need quick and to the point . Thanks!!
friend kept asking what level the drywall was supposed to be, and i kept yelling back, "just make it level you idiot!"
🤪🤪
Lmao!!!
Thanks. Simple but very informative for those that like 'to be right'
wow this is amazing....thanks a lot fot the detailed explanation.......this information helps immensely.
I was in "Van" doing some work last year. RUclips said your stuff "was recommended" for me. I am so glad they did ( I'm bothered that some C.I.A/ N.S.A algorithm would know what I want, but fuck it, they do).
Anyway your videos are great and very entertaining. I have been doing construction all over Canada for the last 30 years, from the Arctic to the Atlantic and have never found any "flaw" in your advice : )
So well presented, and professional.
I may be back B.C way later this year. I'll take you out for beers & poutine, if you have time ; )
Great, informative video. Your communication skills are really excellent - as good as your hand tool skills.
Thank you very much!
This is perfect. I have a huge doctor office I’ll be building and a Wall is a Level 5 finish. I was just about to research it when this popped up on my You Tube feed. Thanks again Ben for an awesome explanation...and for being psychic!!
Sometimes a level 5 doesn’t look great either. You can do what some call a level 6. Do your level 5 in one direction. Then do a second coat in a parallel direction. Kinda like a crosshatch. Will level out any imperfections. Lot more time and material but if it needs to be perfect, it’s worth it.
James D thank you for that tip! I will definitely do that! It’s going to have some type of artwork painted on the wall and needs to be a perfect finish. Thank you again!
I wish someone had explained this to me before I put 5 sheets of drywall on my walls. My room is now 1 foot smaller. DOH!
Lol
At least that room will take forever for a fire to burn through those walls. Slaming in 3 inch screws on 5 layers must've been fun.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
So I did a lvl 4 on my own... not knowing there are levels.
Sweet.
Same here man it feels great
Same here. What I've learned from this clip just saves me doing "3 more levels" on my walls. haha
Perfectly explained thank you Ben. 👍
As usual, great content, thank you
Thanks for this. I asked you about a level 5 in your last videos comments! Thanks. Wanted to skim coat the paper!
After the first coat of primer I find it really helps smooth things out to do a quick sand over the walls. It knocks off all those little hairs sticking up from the paper. Kind of like sanding between coats of poly on wood.
I have seen pro painters do that on comercial jobs. I’m not sure if they used special surfacing primer or not. Labor intensive but it makes sense for a really good finish.
The tape job in 6:16 in that was something beautiful.👍👍
You are such a good teacher. Do you have professional training as an instructor? Your teaching is so practical. Good clear reasoning and examples. I'm learning so much. Thank you so much for your videos.
I'm a 25 year professional finisher and totally agree with ya Vancouver Carpenter. I've seen that wall you're talking about.
Awesome great and interesting (to me) information. I do renos every day and didn`t know about that... probably because I do not work with contractors. Thanks
When you mention drywall finish levels and your drywaller goes, "never head of that." :)
Richard Ellis yeah try explaining this to any of my Mexican drywall subs. They’re going to laugh and do what they’ve been doing for years
@@carpenterdom1639 If the subs your're hiring are true pros (Mexican or not), they probably would just do it right without the formal language.
ptmoy1 cool 👍🏽
Felonious Fishing If that’s the case then they don’t ever do level 5 finishes. In my experience the only tapers that know what level 5 is are the tapers that do it all the time. Otherwise, they have no clue about levels and are usually always doing a level 4 (but don’t know it’s a level 4).
Level 5 is found in high end houses and commercial space. All office building hallways are level five because of the lighting.
In Europe they do level 5 finishes everywhere which is overkill but it’s always guaranteed to look nice - even if it’s the back wall of a closet.
Felonious Fishing try paying them a fair wage see what happens.
Level 3 finish followed up with really thick orange peel texture, primer, and eggshell paint. That's the cheap way the production builders do it but it just so happens to look pretty nice.
Thank you. I had heard the term, and asked at my local big-box hardware store; no-one knew.
Video suggestion: show us turning a level 4 into a level 5. Many of us will do it incorrectly and create unnecessary work for ourselves.
Shocking lol
I had a level 5 finish done in my studio condo way back when, but it was more that the walls were so terrible that spending a bit extra at the time wasn't that big of a deal. Nowadays, I'm happy with a 4.
Good stuff and great explanations.
Thank you!! I’m doing Roman clay in my bathroom and Portola paints said it has to be level 5 to work. Their show room in North Hollywood has it in their bathroom. It looks amazing! Super soft and smooth, but it has to be level five. Thank you for the explanation. I’m looking forward to doing it myself!😁
Very well communicated and appreciated.
Thank you for sharing soo much of good information.
You have no videos about soundproofing walls with drywall. Is there any possibility you can do some videos on that?
So house with plaster walls is automatically a level 5 finish since there’s no tape or screws?
In the uk I use a gypsum 2 coat plaster system which is polished flat for L4/5 finishes. good video thanks
Excellent explanation. Thanks
Another great video. Quick question, how does paint primer affect (or not affect) the smoothness of the finished project? Thanks in advance.
On point perfect said only skim walls like corridor’s elevator lobbies and general lobbies with high ceiling and big walls
In my experience, doing level 4 or just plastering the whole thing takes about the same time. So I usually do the taping in two layers including edges, let dry 12/24hours, knock down with a trowel, do a 1 to 3mm single coat of finishing plaster on the whole room. Smooth 3 times, job done.
Exactly. Two coats then skim entire wall for 3rd coat on seams and screws.
Very nicely done.
Thank you! This was very informative!
I watched several of your videos and decided to remove my popcorn ceiling and go flat. The first room I did a level 5 finish without ever knowing what it meant but with my skill level it took too long. The rest I just spread the joints out and used a thick roller to give a faux texture and it looks fine with ceiling paint
Hey folks, be cautious with those popcorn finishes. Most contain asbestos, and asbestos is still the #1 occupational killer here in North America.
That video is very helpful for my job. Thanks
Excellent video. Thank you.
I’ve seen a level 5 in a lot of hospitals and medical facilities. Not sure why but this is where I remember them the most.
Those aren’t truly level 5 it’s a business and a hospital which would see a lot of traffic going on. They won’t do delicate work on those
Thank‘s for demystifying what “Level 5” actually means in practice and when and why it’s important. I’ve often wondered what the big deal was when the term was thrown around. I think I can now say that most of the times I’d hear someone say it, they were bragging about wasting their money on a completely unnecessary process.
I’m just a DIYer but your channel is easily one of the most useful and informative. I grew up around the construction trade and I appreciate you are teaching from a tradesman perspective in a way a simple DIYer who wants to “get it right” can use.
Keep up the good work.
🙂
We use water based primer after the finishers level 4 coat the entire house & sand the primer once it’s dries, works as good as a level 5 finish
Yea, I thought a good primer would solve this problem. I was under the impression that you would have to prime new drywall anyway. Any products in particular you like to use for a primer on new drywall?
That sounds like painting. It’s not a level 5 finish. It’s level 4 with paint.
@@stiggmint6226 for most people a nice looking smooth wall is enough, only professional and people who are paying for it will tell the difference between 4 and 6
Thank you for the videos! Would you be able to help teach what to do with damaged drywall after wallpaper removal?
Great explanation, thank you! Is there a process where they spray a thin coat of mud over the entire surface, rather than trowel? Not sure where I saw this before or if it fits in with level 5 finishing 🤔?
There is a level 0; proving drywallers are moonlighting C programmers.
Yes the Zero'th level... (People hate when I number things from Zero...)
All arrays start from element 0. Sorry pal...your (and my ;) ) C arrays take from mathematics concepts that are 300 years old.
Great information. I have been going to drywall college on youtube lmao. Lots of information
Great info . Thanks 🙏
Question from a DIY standpoint. Our house faces east / west so we get a lot of sun in morning and evening. Previous owners or builders applied orange peel to wall and ceiling and we find the texture refracts expensive paint and muddies up the color. We pulled up the finished floor and even the sub floor (yes, we have a natural disaster on our hands) and so we're full steam ahead skim coating all walls. I have one 500 sq ft room (master bedroom) done with finish paint for the sake of sanity and the difference in full light between that room and other unfinished rooms is jaw dropping (It's my wife). It will bring tears to your eyes it's so beautiful (black acacia hardwood floor and SW 6767). My question is what can I do to ease the labor?? I've been doing 2-3 coats of Silver Set 90 with a scrape between first coat and second coat and second and third coat then sand after third. I still get gouges and crusty spots during the scrapes. I've tried trowel and trough, trowel and hawk, 6", lots and lots of sanding, lots of scraping with trowel. The 1st coat, scrape, 2nd coat, scrape, 3rd coat, sand method seems to be working best but I'm still finding it taking like 20 hours per room just for the mudding phase. Am I focusing too much on the scrape phases? Help! :)
What are your thoughts on using high build primers instead of skim coat?
Good vid! Question: Is a level 5 possible on an older painted wall? I've made repairs and primed and then attempted level 5 (roll on and trowel off). I'm not getting a nice finish that I would qualify as level 5. Basically still seeing the orange peel and drywall repair flat texture...
It means they took the time to do it properly.
The drywall guy we hired (in AZ) actually knew what it meant and knew how to do it.
And because our house faces east & west with lots windows, we did need level 5 in the great room
Fantastic content great vid
Did my first drywall work in 1994, made a living remodeling for twenty years. Got really good at matching textures and blending patches.
This is the first time I ever heard proper definitions of "levels", even though every skylight shaft I ever did was level 5... Great video!
#4 then sweep dust off surfaces , prime/seal dry ,sand primer to knock down fibers ,sweep then paint .
Thank you..I’ve got a ceiling that looks flat during the daylight then when the ceiling light is on at night I can see the joints..there is already small orange peel texture and white ceiling paint already on the ceiling ..is there a way to fix this? Can I just go over the joints with more mud and then reshoot the texture? Than you for any help with this.
You might be better off skim coating the entire wall and spraying new texture all over. Otherwise you will never be able to perfectly blend new texture with the old.
Thanks,ii always thought sealing and priming was what hid/blended the different textures
Excellent video. Can you elaborate on your experience with how the color or type of paint affects the decision of 4 vs 5?
Question - If you want a level 5 finish and you are painting over new drywall patches on a previously painted, non textured wall and you are noticing a difference in texture from the paint and new patch(the area is well lit), is the only way to attain a level 5 finish performed by completely skimming the entire wall?
Are there other alternatives? Perhaps making a larger patch and floating it out, or priming and painting the wall multiple times?
GREAT VIDEO, thanks!
Level 5 finish should also help with full gloss paints, especially with dark colors. I often hear warnings about dark gloss colors showing every imperfection in the walls.
How do you find studs behind vertical wood panel without fancy tools?
It also depends on the finish of paint. A satin finish will show off more imperfections than an eggshell.
Sheen difference is a bitch in eggshell
Glancing light from windows onto the wall and the final finish paint required will determine what finish is needed.
"Congratulations, Panda -- there is now a level 0." Nice video, good information. Thanks!
Thanks I appreciate the info
The crazy thing is in England level 5 is standard practice here, no level 5 it's just called plastering or skim coat if over pre existing plaster. I have never saw what painted plaster board/drywall would look like. Couldn't imagine it is as smooth
@Vancouver Carpenter. Scott. Is there a difference between Level 5 drywall and skim coating?
Hope you an your family stay well and safe.
Here level 4 finish we do 2 standard coats on on all joints, beads, and screw holes, and then a skim coat over all of those. Standard 1 coat inside corners.
Young man just gave you huge kudos on inside corner taping vid... sorry didn't look at time line but came into my feed. I did/do have question (for anyone out there) ... please tell me name of the "top coat" you recommend. I cannot find the previous vid where you mentioned it once. Thanks again from the old man in VA!
VC! Love the videos! I'm getting ready hang some rock in the new addition.. all the advice I get is hang the drywall horizontally.. in a lot of your videos I see vertical application.. could you PLEASE do a video on pluses and minuses of that technique? Seems that if a sheet will fit vertically, the lack of butt joints would make it easier to "disappear" the seams.. hopefully you can do it! Thanks. Love the channel. As a painter I like to know how to make the job how I'd want to prep and paint it.. 👍
They have to hang vertical in commercial construction due to fire code. Seams need to be located fully on a stud to act as fire blocking. Residential do what ya want. There are benefits to installing horizontal. That’s why they do it a majority of the time that way in homes.
@@petepistachio8229 The main benefit is you dont need to kneel down or get on a ladder to finish the joints. Unless the wall is short enough to avoid a butt joint Id rather hang them vertically though.
Dan did you prime the surface before painting it? Maybe that's why there appeared difference between textures
This was useful thanks
Wtf!? I was showing someone the difference of level 3-5 as I’m a taper. To my surprise, I find the dude who’s skateboard videos I watch with my son. Lol. Glad to see another skater/taper out there!
Level 5 finish is hard to achieve and a sign of excellent workmanship!
The witching hour, the hour when the sun light exposes all your fuck ups lol.