Why the Infamous Comic, All-Star Batman and Robin, was Never Finished
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
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In 2005, DC Comics launched All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder. It had superstar writer Frank Miller and superstar artist Jim Lee. But only 10 issues came out, almost always late. The book was infamous among critics who found it over-the-top, but it sold very well. So why was it left on a cliffhanger? This video looks at some of the most popular theories and uses quotes from the creators to determine why All-Star Batman and Robin was never wrapped up. 
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Aw yes. The book that made everyone realize Frank Miller had gone crazy
I thought that was holy terror
@@TheMasterQuests naw. We all knew he was long gone at that point.
DK2 had already done that.
LOL!!! He definitely got weird for sure.
Its funny but if you look back as early as Dark Knight Returns you can see hints of it in his writing.
I love the scene where Batman paints himself, Robin, and the whole room yellow to de-power Green Lantern, and then sips lemonade while lying to Hal’s face that Robin wasn’t Dick Grayson With a smug smile across his face. Hilarious.
Conversely, this scene lost me. I don’t buy this silver age silliness from the grimdark character that was screaming at a child sidekick in the prior issue. The tonal shifts are jarring. I hope they leave it unfinished and perpetually tardy.
@@DougGoodwin Not to mention, Hal has faced similar situations against Sinestro and come out on top.
Looked more like dumb humor to me. How the hell does yellow paint counter a Green Lantern ring!?
@@Archon3960 Hal's ring (and almost all GL rings) cannot affect anything yellow. At all. The lore reason is that the Guardians put it in as a safety factor. Allan Scott, the first Earth lantern (Golden Age lantern) had a ring that could not affect wood!
Kyle Rayner's ring does not have any such limitation.
@@Archon3960 It’s an old silver age weakness. Oddly, people think this is the first time Batman has done this but I swear it’s an homage to an older panel.
the problem with the comedic weird moments is that everything surrounding it is overly mean spirited and causes a mild tonal whiplash. if Allstar Batman was a tongue-in-cheek series or if they toned down Jerkass Batman it would have been received a lot warmer. at least we got THE GODDAMNED BATMAN out of this comic series.
“Tonal whiplash” is a perfect description
in that case it'd be the dark knight strikes again...frank miller is his own worst enemy.
If you have a version of Batman that you couldn't see comforting a child, you do not have Batman. You have Frank Castle who wandered in to the wrong book and put on another guy's suit.
@@lexslate2476 fucking bingo. This is nail on head. Bruce Wayne isn't the punisher, despite what Miller seems to think. He's not a psychopath, a sadist, a child abuser, etc. To depict him as such, even in Frank Miller's fake "it's just satire bro" nonsense is a deep insult not only to the character, but also the reader. It's saying "this character that got famous for being just a guy who experienced trauma and is trying to make the world a better place but has problems is boring, what if he was a complete nutjob who made the world actively worse and displayed no likable qualities?"
But what can you expect from Frank "I think using the R-word as a derogative word is Very Cool and Funny" Miller? Every story he's ever written has been reductive of the character he's writing. This is why the movies for TDRK are actually better. They strip out almost all of the diseased, mean spirited hate that Miller spews throughout the book and focuses on it being a story about batman, not a vehicle for Frank to yell.
Shoutout especially for how utterly sickening Miller's treatment of Robin has been over the years, consistently portraying Bruce Wayne as a child abuser for... no reason other than he thinks that's definitely Cool. The idea of a bruce wayne who abuses children is even worse than Zack Snyder's ridiculously edgy "durr batman kills people" take. He was never meant to be an edgelord, the compassion is core to the character as a hero- What he is fundamentally cast as in mainline comics.
@@lexslate2476 I haven't read AS Batman and Robin, I've only seen online videos critiquing it but I've read a couple of Punisher comics (and seen him in a few event/teaming up comics) and he still seems way more sane and likeable. Hell even Moon Knight who's supposed to be literally insane seems more reasonable from what I've read lol.
I remember buying this comic when it first came out thinking it was going to be like the best thing ever. You had Jim Lee who's an astounding artist and he just got off of Hush with Geoff Loeb. On top of that, Frank Miller's a legend. I don't think I need to say anymore. That being said, this book was a massive disappointment. However, I do say the artwork is fantastic. And it's spawned one of the earliest internet memes 'I'M THE GODDAMNED BATMAN'. That is the only good that I could say came out of this book.
Literally my reaction to reading it was a progressively astonishing of "What the fuck?" It starts weird and gets weirder. But yes, the art was great. Love the scene in the yellow room for the art, but (most) certainly not for the story!
Even then that comes with the cost of Batman using the word “retarded.”
I really want to know what Frank Miller was smoking and who hurt him to make this...
Miller has a tendency to get extremely edgy for no real reason. Depth of violence and darkness used as filler.
@@lexslate2476 Yeah I don't really like Miller at all. Like I like Year One but that's about it. I think the guy was always crazy and tbh the cracks were showing as early as TDKR.
Jim Lee is apparently a really fantastic and stand up guy, this guy mentioned he dropped his sketchbook to see if Lee could review. Lee personally returned it, complimented the guy on his skill and then drew a 2 page spread in the book
I work at a comic book store and we recently found a couple issues in our boxes of back issues to be processed and the store owner defended the book saying he’s a fan of it, so.... you’re not alone! There’s at least two fans of the book out there.
Chris is an artist and I'm sure the reason he likes ASBAR is because the art in it is great. Its the writing that's a problem.
Three
Wait, Chris says he likes it? Why? Where does he say it?
why is it do bad to like this book? its a good story that was more accurate to how batman would act if he was real. i dont know about you guys, but the tough and brooding batman who never smiles thing was getting boring. crazy batman is more likely to happen when you have a billionare with mental issues
Edit - apparently I misunderstood his previous comments.
The only good things to come out of this series was the art and the phrase "I'm the God damned Batman".
The common usage of "Crazy Steve", coined by Linkara. Was also thanks to this series.
Don’t forget Bonkers Betty😉.
@@patrickblanchette4337 And Dick Grayson Aged Twelve.
My theory on why it was never finished? People largely hated this story. This was so over the top it made people actively be repulsed by its content.
I don't think its as over the top as people make it out to be. I mean it is over the top, but in a fun way.
@@isaacvargas3156 I feel much the same, and did so from issue #1.
I'll also say...for good or ill...Frank started trolling his critics almost immediately in the book. "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN" is a "thing" largely because people bitched about it, and Frank...laughing, I'm sure...said, "fine it's in every issue now."
@@mpjedi212 no I'm pretty sure that was him trying to cash in on a dead meme cause he's a fucking dinosaur
@@pickedceasar1216 It wasn't dead when he was doing it, since he made it up.
But that's OK, be agist and snotty.
Yeah, Frank may have been joking with the whole series. The way I see it, there are really two possibilities with this. The first is that Strikes again and ASBAR are parodies Miller made as a response to criticism he received with his portrayal of Batman in the dark knight returns, it makes sense seeing as Frank has always been a vocal writer (hence his political views appearing in his writing). The second possibility is that this really is the story Frank was trying to tell. Miller's Batman has always been crazy, it is one of the central archetypes of the universe. Sure, he has never been as particularly insane as he was in ASBAR nor has the dialogue been as bad, but being stubborn and insane, laughing while beating up criminals and treating crime like a war are things Miller's Batman has always done, even in year one.
Frankly, the excuse that these two were so "busy" and so popular that they couldn't finish the project, just tells me they should never done it in the first place.
that's the same thing with Kevin Smith and Jon Favreau writing comic book arc's
For all of its flaws, i still think this comic has Jim Lees best art of his career, heightened by Alex Sinclairs colours and Scott Williams inks as always
I agree. His work on Hush was good but Lee really reached his peak on this one. sadly the quality of his art has kinda sunk over the years.
The art is definitely magnificent. It's the story, dialogue, and characterizations that are complete garbage.
Imagine DC one day saying: hey, the all-star movie Superman did well, why don't we make a movie adapting our only other comic from the All-Star line?
Directed by Rob Zombie
Eh, considering how the story came out I think Frank Miller lost interest BEFORE he was hired to write this. As an artist and designer myself, I totally get it. I've taken on side projects for a paycheck and regret making that commitment the entire time I'm working on it. All I could think about was finishing this lame-duck project so that I can jump back on the one I'm more passionate about. At this time, Miller outgrew Batman and already told his story. To have a Miller story illustrated by Lee seems to be an awful mix, to begin with.
Miller wasn't even the first writer assigned to this project. Originally DC wanted to have Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee re-team after the success of "Hush". But Loeb was not available so Miller was asked to come on board. I agree with you and that Miller and Lee were a bad combo, especially since I've long stated that ASBAR as written by Miller is a dark comedy drawn as a completely straight action movie by Lee.
@@albion65 I honestly don't buy the "dark comedy" excuse. It's like watching an unintentional bad film (e.g. The Room, Troll 2) where due to cult status it's somehow shifted into comedy status despite it not being the original intent.
@@albion65 All star batman and Robin was *not* intended as a dark comedy. That's the same BS excuse every writer/artist uses when they make something shitty that blows up.
If you want to read and enjoy it as that then sure, but this was fully meant to be a brand new mainstream batman comic for fans. Don't make excuses for it.
Also the video clearly states frank Miller took on the project as an act of passion. Money wasn't an obstacle for him at this point in his fame, your experience as smaller struggling designer really isn't comparable to what Frank was thinking about/doing.
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero That's someone's opinion whether Miller was passionate of a project or not. Just like it's your opinion that my side projects are nickel and dimes. Money isn't always the driving factor for a project. However, I can tell you that there are times when a creative person can be swayed into a project only for momentum to be completely lost after the commitment has been agreed upon. A major factor can be other great projects in queue that cannot be attended to until this lame-duck obligation is met first. It can also be real life situations that must be dealt with but unfortunately, the train is already in motion for said project. Either way, it's easier to come to the conclusion, considering all of Miller's past work, that he may have blown through this story just to get it over and done with. The "dark comedy" angle is silly.
Chris, it would be fascinating to see your take on Frank Miller's career trajectory over the years, with all the controversy included! Holy terror is such an insane book, it would be great to hear your thoughts in detail
I remember being bad buzz around one of the last issues published, where Batgirl was cursing like a sailor and editorial had to black those out after the fact, yet people could still read the words printed beneath the black boxes... I'm sure the general backlash against the abysmal quality of the comic had something to do with both Miller and Lee not wanting to stick with it.
They had to recall all the issues and re-release the comic the next week with black censor bars that actually worked.
Jim Gordon: My daughter is an " angel "!😇
His daughter: 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Reading this book when I was younger, I was always confused at the last couple of issues and the story it was trying to tell. A weird tough love kind of dynamic where Bruce was attempting to create another version of himself but eventually softened up upon realizing the magnitude of those weird decisions and the determination of Dick’s character. It’s the beginning of a process where Batman’s aggressive, violent tendencies are smoothed over into something more heroic. I think if the material with Black Canary and maybe the Justice League were cut out, maybe instead developing Catwoman and the Joker, they could have made it into a pretty decent Batman and Robin: Year One type storyline that could have been as little as six issues.
The fact that Batman laughs maniacally while hurting people and the Joker never smiles or cracks a joke during any of his appearance suggests Miller was trying to do some kind of switch-a-roo thing with the two characters. Its a decent idea but its poor execution and lack of an ending to tie everything together just make the whole thing disgusting. I think Zack Snyder read this and decided this is the kind of character Batman is supposed to be, hence why we haven't had a decent Batman movie since 2008
@@architeuthis3476 "The fact that Batman laughs maniacally while hurting people and the Joker never smiles or cracks a joke during any of his appearance suggests Miller was trying to do some kind of switch-a-roo thing with the two characters."
This has been Frank Miller's Batman and Joker since THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. It's totally consistent (which is what he said he was doing), and frankly, I find that Joker to be the most disquieting version of the character anyone's ever done.
@@mpjedi212 Batman is a laughing psychopath in DKR? We must not have read the same story.
I think the main issue with this is just how violent and aggressive he is with Robin like he locked him in a cave to starve and eat bats... That literally sounds like some s*** the league of assassins would do
@@architeuthis3476 Literally the only time I ever heard him tell a joke and it wasn't even really a joke it was just badass was the mud pit
The artwork in this book is amazing. But that’s all that’s good about it really
Frank Miller had obviously gone insane while writing All Star Batman. Poor Jim Lee had to bring these delusions to life. The simple fact is that the beauty ofJim Lee's illustrations made the madness bearable.
Rarely has there been such a dichotomy of mastery (the artwork) and tasteless dreck (the writing) fused in the same piece of media.
Ah, yes. Painting everything yellow to combat against Green Lantern is a classic lol
Great ep, I actually had a lot of questions regarding this comic and you answered it all.
I think the great fame of both writer and artist were the reason people had huge amount of expectations, and that's a double edge sword. The tone and the story were all over the place, Jim may have been the cause of the delays but his artwork was better than ever, not the same could be Frank Miller's writing. It's not that an over the top action packed "parody" of Batman can't be done, but the problems came that it seemed like there wasn't a clear style or storyline (other than Robin's origin story); sure it could be funny the way Batman talks like a self-aware Deadpool "I say what I want! I am a comic character!" Kind of humor, but in the next page there would be a dramatic 180 shift in tone and something really dramatic it would happen that would need the reader to engage it in a more serious way. And that is usually a dangerously fine line.
I can understand the artist and even editorial liken it to something like a musical jam session with two legendary artist, wild and unpredictable by nature, but it was closer to have 2 famous musicians one giving it all and the other being totally drunk doing what in his mind he thought was cool but the audience just take it as him performing awful and sounding like a douche he gets mad when people boo him.
I'm just using the analogy the assistant editor chose I'm not trying to judge any all of these artists personal life or artistic choices but trying to be objective about the art itself and what ultimately came to be.
Man, I used to love Frank Miller's stuff when I was younger. As I have gotten older his over the top sensibilities have worked less and less for me. Its weird. It seems like after DKR he read Brat Pack and was inspired to make all of his heroes more like the lead "heroes" on that book.
I never really "got" Miller's writing sensibilities (or art style, but that's a different topic), Year One being the exception. But latter-day Miller just seems to have completely doubled down on all his flaws.
This and Holy Terror recontextualize Miller's earlier Batman work. They come off as much more reactionary than before.
I seem to be the only person who dislikes The Dark Knight Returns. The fascist themes are ubiquitous and ruin any enjoyment I might get from the rest of it. I actually refer to it as _Batman Shurgged_ and have written a short essay comparing DKR to Ayn Rand.
@@architeuthis3476 You're not special lol.
@@architeuthis3476 I'm glad I'm not the only one
@@architeuthis3476 It definitely has those undertones. I think people ignored it initially because it paints Reagan in a slightly negative light.
@@architeuthis3476 Yeah I didn't notice it when I was 14, but rereading it as an adult the fascism is screamingly obvious. Not just in the way Batman way portrayed but the entire world Miller created - filled with barely human gangs of marauding teenagers - is a justification for any and all fascist violence to stop it.
ASBAR was a grim reminder of why we shouldn't treat the big icons of 80s and 90s as infallible masters of comic book dogma...
And ironically Jim Lee was piled up with Rob Liefeld as comic's bane in the 90s to be vindicated later.
Damn dude I’m just so glad you’re back in such a big way, will continue watching every video you make🤟🏻🤟🏻 keep up the awesome work
Chris you are a far more forgiving man than me. I will never forget how the combination of this book, The Spirit, and Holy Terror all in a few years window made me despise Frank Miller as a mean-spirited xenophobic misogynistic dirtbag.
By the time time The Master Race rolled around he seems to have lightened up a bit though. It should be mentioned to his credit however that Miller himself has said Azzarello was a big driving creative force behind DKIII.
The kind of idiocy only a leftist would write!
"What are you going to do, tell the writer to rein it in??" Lol, yes. That's literally the job.
"It was rock and roll from the beginning!" = We didn't have a plan and no one bothered scoping the project.
These kinds of management problems certainly aren't unique to comics, but comics seems to be the only industry where no one considers them a problem. 😂😂
This is one of the first comics I read as a kid. I picked it up off the bookshelf in Chapters and read it right there. The art was astounding but even as a young child I could tell I was reading something wrong and disturbing.
the problem with seeing it as not being supposed to be taken seriously is the fact that... it was not presented that way to people. it was sold as this pillar of the batman mythos, even frank miller considers it to represent what is batman... So, it is not like the creators consider it as a parody of batman, Frank Miller intended for this to be a book that represents all that is batman just as much as how all start superman does for the man of steel... but instead, we got an unintencional parody of the dark knight
It was intentional, it was poking fun at the stupidity of Batman comics Hed inadvertently caused. To him it was what Batman had become since dkr and he hated it. In the comic Batman is basically constantly called insane constantly which should clue you in to how miller felt about him.
@@Jiub_SN That would mean a lot of his work after that in which he has had creative control, has been a parody, and we know it wasn't, the dark knight strikes again, Holy terror, superman year one. All these were done honestly by him and they all have the same feel as ASBAR
Miller's supposedly "intentional" humor is, I think, his strained and dreadfully contrived attempts at further adulterating and gutting Batman's mythos. That's what he was doing in Dark Knight Returns, but he did so with a unique and brilliant (at the time) concept for Batman that hadn't been seen before and he executed it with genuine purpose and vision. But by the time of All-Star Batman Miller had long been a shadow of himself (and not just physically). As a result instead of fully-realized ideas you get these desperately lazy and uninspired attempts to again recreate Batman, but only with outrageous (and outrageously stupid) dialogue and scenes that demean Miller's legacy more than Batman's. I think Miller has a love/hate relationship with the character that made him famous, and quite unlike someone like Alan Moore, Miller is too brutish and simplistic of a writer to be truly profound. So now he's just head-butting walls, but with considerably less force than when he was young and optimistic.
Alan Moore is a hack
@@JohnSmith-yd5wq Nah
@@JohnSmith-yd5wq Why?
@@j_shelby_damnwird well the fact that most famous stories are with characters he didn't create
@@j_shelby_damnwird and the killing joke is shit
Jim Lee's work was so NICE, but Frank messed the story up something fierce lol.
Chris, will you ever do Morrison’s Invisibles. It literally contains every Morrison trope in existence and I think it’s under read and under appreciated.
I thought that right up to last issue when we found out the truth, that it had all been a dream; that single issue killed it.
@@Eris123451 Is that seriously how it ended? If so, thanks for saving me from the temptation of spending money on it.
@@r3cycledPl4stic it's a tremendous oversimplification of what actually happened. Read it anyway, it's brilliant.
Great epidode! I had heard a lot of mixed reviews of this comic from friends but none of them could exactly put a finger on why it didn't quite work, despite A+ talent involved. This cleated a lot up! Thanks, Chris!
Another great video, Chris. This does a great job standing out from other videos about this book and giving a unique perspective on it.
The REAL question is why did DC keep giving Miller work after that load of bullshit.
money
Bc his work - even now - is still lightyears ahead of anything Tom King can even dream of. And compared to everything (!) the likes of Mags Versaggio, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Vita Ayala & Co have put out...well, it`s like watching some god at work! I really liked Holy Terror and ASBAR.
@@M.E.plusminus said "I really liked Holy Terror and ASBAR."
Why would anyone like Holy Terror? Its hate speech in comic book form and the art isn't even good
@@architeuthis3476 His style has changed & even declined dramatically over the years, he got older and lost some of his talent (just like Byrne, Simonson, Chaykin..). But his art is still good enough and very interesting to look at (and it looks SO much better than that of most artists working currently for Marvel and DC - at least in my eyes..).
As for the "hate speech" ...Holy Terror shows what acts of violence (= 9/11) can do to the heart and soul. What did you expect - a love letter? Of course it`s dumb to answer hate with hate, but it`s also very human & I understand the motivation behind his book; and also his dislike for a certain group of people.
- Sorry for the long answer. ;)
Loved this episode, Chris. Going through the backlog on your channel is great.
If they were so busy, DC could have put out a release announcing there would be a delay. All I’m hearing are excuses and giving Lee and Miller a pass because they were stretched thin.
This comic doesn't have Bruce Wayne/Batman, it's a insane guy named Crazy Steve pretending to be Batman!
Love this kind of video exploring behind the scenes topics!
seeing the progression of the intro is fun when rewatching old videos but i think you nailed it with the latest one. clean animation and probably the cleanest transition aswell
Thanks for this one Chris, I've wondered about it but always get bizarre conjecture from not terribly reliable sources when I've asked before.
Keep up the great work Sir!
I have been watching your videos for years, I never commented before but I need to say something: this channel is some of the best comic book content out there. You are professional, likable, and most of all very knowledgeable but in an humble way - never acting like an over the top tv presenter and boring us with badly concealed ads. Thank you
This analysis was very fun to watch, can’t wait for the next video!
I was there when Miller talked about it at Comic con in 2015, got me so hyped for it since I’m also in the minority of people that want this continued.
Always happy to spend some time with the man, the legend, Chris. Keep on keeping on!! Have a super day!!
Great work, Chris. Glad to see this.
I love your videos man! Found you a while back and I’m bingeing your videos and it’s super apparent that a lot of time and consideration goes into them. it is always appreciated!
I loved this book also Chris. I remember meeting Jim Lee at Spawn 200th issue signing at Golden apple comics all the image creators were there and I asked JIm were there any plans to finish the series and I was told by Jim Lee himself that it was gonna be finished a few weeks later I read that the book was canceled at issue number 10, I was very disappointed. Thank you for caring and bringing this subject to surface with clarity and understanding.
Just wanted to say I’ve been watching you on and off every weekend for about 3 years now and you’ve always kept things interesting. I thank you for your entertainment bro
Awesome episode, thanks Chris!
Great episode, Chris!
Great video Chris!
Thank you for another entertaining and insightful vid Chris!
i genuinely love watching your videos
Chris, I've just had major surgery and just wanted to say your videos have really been a god-send to get me through the weeks of recovery in hospital 💪
What a gift, recovering from covid and this put a smile on my face
I LOVE this video! Love the explanations and the discussion thereof. I'll also say I, too, am a fan of the book because it's so bonkers.
13:27 - You CAN tell the writer to rein it in, that's literally what they pay you for. Dude's an editor, right? So edit. Let the writer write, let the editor edit.
I believe the editor means artistic editing
After the absolute homerun that All Star Superman was, which imo, is now one of the quinessential superman stories, this was supremely disappointing.
Thanks for this video.
Loved the video I've heard lots of weird things about this comic so it was cool to see a video on it. Also I loved your oh hi segments I miss those but if you stopped doing them because you were tired of them I get.
Thanks for putting in the legwork to solve this mystery, Chris! My introduction to All-Star Batman was through Linkara’s video(s) years ago, so it was also interesting to hear your take on the story itself, and that maybe it was just intentionally batshit insane (pun intended). Honestly relieved to hear that it wasn’t shelved due to some secret drama, but just fell victim to delays and difficult marketing logistics, etc.
I haven't seen your videos in a bit. Love that new intro. You've finally made it lol.
Love the channel, I’ll try to contribute and spread the word. Great speaking style, humor, quality, and taste.
Fantastic episode! Thanks for putting in the work to get real information and not just speculation! 😁😁😁😂
Y'know, I was just thinking of this comic and was sad to see that you hadn't covered it yet, but from the corner of my eye I see a new video of yours that was about this exact comic! I think I must have a prediction engine or something.
It’s crazy that as soon as I see the animation begin, I automatically like the vid. It’s an awesome start.
I like comparing this to All-Star Superman and the depiction of the lead character whenever it comes up in conversation.
All-Star Superman is usually regarded as one of the best depictions of The Man of Steel, celebrating his Silver Age origins, along with his willingness to go out of his way to help the people of Metropolis with their daily lives. It shows Superman being the character many of us grew up with.
All-Star Batman & Robin depicts Batman at his absolute WORST. Over the top parody or not, it wasn't advertised as such. It also feels like Frank Miller was trying to justify the resentment his take on Batman has in the Dark Knight universe by depicting him as an Unhinged Psychopath (I know that phrase gets throw about quite often when talking about this Batman... Honestly, nothing else fits).
He does one kind act to Dick Grayson (Age 12) in the series... Allowing him to mourn at the Grave of his parents for just a moment... But this is blunted by the fact earlier in the same issue, he threw him into a wall after and punched him in the face hard enough to bloody his nose (After he stood by while Dick was beating the shit out of Green Lantern, crushing his windpipe in error).
Knowing the turn Miller took with Holy Terror, I'd imagine Miller considered that one Batman at his best.
@@shizachan8421
Maybe. Holy Terror is not something I'd willing read again.
I can't say this book was good, but I'll say it was fun to read, and on top of that it had some of the best work of Jim Lee's career imo. Would love to see a conclusion some day
Love your videos, please never stop 💜💜
I flipped through issue one of All Star Batman and Robin at the comic book store; once I got to that "goddamn Batman" line, I put it down, walked away, and never looked back.
Cool video always interesting
The alcohol abuse theory that you brush over is more than likely the most valid explanation. Creators are often driven by demons that both fuel creativity and ultimately destroy it.
As crazy as it sounds, I’d kinda like to see it’s official ending one day.
I mean, it’s an awfully hilarious series, but I actually kinda dig the ideas in the story & Frank’s take on the Batman characters in his world, I dare say it could’ve been great. If frank didn’t seem to be on crack when he wrote it lol.
And in my opinion, it’s the best art jim lee has ever done in a comic.
I hated ASBAR but I do kinda wanna know how it ends
I wish Adam west got to be in an animated movie adaption
@@architeuthis3476"i actively didn't support the series because i didnt like it, but now i want then to finish it" lmao the reason it didnt get finished was because of people like you in the first place
@@azulchamoy Yes, & I'm fine with that.
The comic is complete garbage (other than the gorgeous artwork), but I, too, would be interested in seeing its conclusion - just like you can't look away in the middle of a trainwreck.
Favourite channel on RUclips, love it
Really nice video!! Now for the Cyberforce 30th anniversary, have you thought about doing a Cyberforce Episode? The Costumes? the Premise? where it all went wrong?
I remember attending San Diego Comic-Con the week this book launched. Thursday afternoon had people scrambling to get their copies and the hype from the DC booth was so energetic that it seemed like a sure-fire slam dunk. By Saturday people were cautiously asking others if they had "read it yet," and sharing confused critiques of slight disbelief with those who answered in the affirmative. By Sunday it was officially a bomb. Any juice DC had was gone and the booth wasn't even focused on it anymore. It was the strongest shift in tone and personality I've ever seen at a live event, like the internet reaction and word of mouth had both been so instantly negative that the company publicly cut bait.
It is certainly a guilty pleasure of mine and one I re-read every few years. I'd love to see it finished because it really is something so completely unique and unexpected from DC.
I think my big issue with All-Star Batman and Robin was the whiplash. Things like “greeting the Green Lantern in a yellow-painted room, covered in yellow paint, with Robin holding a jug of lemonade”? Wonderful, that’s delightfully stupid. Having B&R beat Green Lantern so violently that they have to give him an emergency tracheotomy? Terrible, the exact point where I rolled my eyes and went “this is godawful” and put the book down.
That was really the lowest point. All that insanity and making Justice League complete joke aside that part is written mean spirited. When I see that yellow painted room, I questioned are they serious. And what happened Hal Jordan after, I mean, Hal Jordan is my least favorite Green Lantern but that is too far.
6:54 I've noticed throughout most of his career, Jim really can't handle the monthly grind beyond maybe a year. So I'm not surprised he's taking responsibility for the book's many delays.
This is the bottom line. And I don't even mean that as an attack on Lee, it's totally understandable when you look at the work...especially on this book.
'It was intentional.' Intentional. Well, yes, obviously. When a creator sets out to deliberately have a fifty-five year old folk hero behave in the most boorish, ugly, hate-filled way he can, the intention is clear. In an interview discussing 'The Dark Knight Returns,' Miller states "I just wanted him to be the guy nobody likes." And two decades later, mission accomplished. But I'm really not sure how that is a defense.
"I wanted to write a story that nobody enjoyed."
... congratulations?
@@SchulzEricT The man had a goal and he achieved it.
@@stranger59 Well...You're not wrong...
I could not and still can not see this Batman as "my" Batman, if that makes sense. And "my" Batman is pretty expansive. This version/vision just doesn't appeal to me.
It sounds that, maybe like the Star Wars' Sequels, they could have done with getting a solid plan before starting the project.
I've heard a lot of people had problems with this comic but I loved every page, such a shame it wasn't completed.
Dude you have a great style , I think you could make any subject interesting.
This was
an interesting topic Chris
I remember buying the fist couple titles off the rack
in the day ..
In my opinion it was
a total comparable
Knight and day in like ability of the story compared to that
of the now classic story of
All-Star Superman
that I fell off and ultimately forgot about it ever finishing
New poem! But you're right; All-Star Superman annihilates this one.
This was very interesting. I wasn't aware it was incomplete. Thinking about purchasing it.
I’m right there with you!! I loved this amazingly drawn and colored story. To me so many people wanna pick it apart but they don’t take the time to enjoy an out of cannon story just like Dark Knight Returns!
This is one of my top 5 batman depictions period!! I simply adored the offbeat plot and pace as well as its illustration. Batman was "tired&blunt with brutality!" Thank you for this video on one of my favorite batman interpretations 😎
I like these pieces in this investigative journalism style.
Amazing art and a story that never moves beyond basics but it's a guilty pleasure to read. The stuff like rats dinner and crazy roof superhero sex is probably not for the purists of the bat mythos but I had good laughs reading and re-reading this book. Chris, great episode once again. I wish you would do a Rogers-Engleheart Batman run analysis, but any content from you is always must see. Have a great 2022, sir
It is Crazy Steve and Robin age 12.
I feel if Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale can finish up the storyline for Batman: The Long Halloween 25 years after it was originally published, then Miller & Lee can return for the final 2 issues of All Star Batman & Robin. And btw, in the Long Halloween 1 shot special we find out who the Holiday Killer was and it was a fullfilling conclusion. Now, if only ORC STAIN can get an ending!!!
Wait, Loeb and Sale did What? I was always confused about who the killer really was in the end. Where can I read this ending?
difference is long halloween is a classic bat story
@@nameynamename3758 A money grab can be seen for what it is and if there’s an All Star Batman 11, they will grab my money.
@@prajwaljayaraj5887 It’s called BATMAN: THE LONG HALLOWEEN SPECIAL # 1. It was only released a couple weeks ago. I’m not going to spoil the end. It’s fittingly tragic.
@@NotNearMint Ah I see. Thank You.
I was watching your video on Fraction and Aja's Hawkeye and you had said somethignthat really interested me. You had said that the run was Hawkeye's definitive run then went on to state a few others. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on what you think are character's definitive run, maybe it could be a series
*Sees the Out In The Cold cover.* Oh, Sleeper! Early Brubaker and Phillips, love it!
That music analogy from Brandon Montclare was spot on. It would be cool if ASB&R ends up being this half-finished, fun romp.
Sooooo basically it was never finished cause the editors at DC didn't have the balls to tell Miller and Lee to sit down, shut up, and finish what they started, got it!
Honestly I just don't think DC was in the position to offer either of the two an ultimatum. Both Miller and Lee could afford to never work for DC again, but DC really couldn't afford to lose either of them.
@@kevingriffith6011 well kissing their ass didn't get the book finished either. Maybe the answer was they should have gotten a different creative team. Alan Davis and Mark Farmer spring to mind.
@@albion65 Pretty much that, yeah, either find a new team or expand the team to better divide the workload. Of course then you don't get the boost that comes from having Miller and Lee's names on it, but at least the book gets done.
@@kevingriffith6011 well Brian Azzarello seems to be the guy who can keep Miller focused enough to finish a book or execute Miller's concepts in a book without it losing it's Miller voice.
Can you go into why "Image United" was never finished next? I always loved the 90s Image shared universe, wish it was still a big thing.
I have great memories of getting this signed by Jim Lee and Frank Miller at my first comic con when I was seven years old. I hate how much I love this comic.
The editor saying that he couldn't tell Frank Miller "no " on Batman's characterization was VERY revealing. This story is a mess. Not a The Dark Knight Strikes Again-level mess, but certainly a DKIII level mess. At least the art is unimpeachable.
Great video
Interesting story, thanks for sharing.
I picked up the hardcover version of this for $4 about a year ago. I went in with very low expectations and really enjoyed it. I’m excited at the possibility of a couple more issues
Love the video
Wow great episode! Heya can you do a piece on that awesome 1985 six issue LONGSHOT mini series by Arthur Adams that nobody remembers? Some of the best art ever 👍 Dude that would make the best movie! That was Arthur Adams in his prime, along with X-Men annual #9 & New Mutants special edition #1. Later, Bootsy