6.5 Creedmoor or .243 Winchester for Deer Hunt? - Season 2: Episode 71
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast!
Which is the better cartridge for your next deer hunt? Find out what I think in this episode!
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00:00 - Corrections
12:35 - For varmint hunting and whitetails, which is better? The new 6.5 Creedmoor or the .243 Winchester?
14:36 - What are your thoughts about the new Remington core lokt tipped 30-06 ammunition?
18:00 - In all my years of hunting, I've never used a scope. Why should I start?
21:25 - I just traded an older Savage Axis in 308 Win for a Parker Hale 300 Win Mag. I will be using it for this year's moose hunt. Do you have any knowledge/experience/comments to make on the Parker Hale rifles?
24:00 -Does it bother you that the newer bullet and gun models are designed for precision shooters and not hunters?
26:33 - Just curious, what is the difference between a rolling block and a falling block? Or are they just different names for the same mechanism?
28:04 - For Africa hunts, I know you've mentioned BookMyHunt before. Are all of those outfitters on that site going to be honest and moral about how game is taken? I don't want to make a mistake with a dishonest or immoral outfitter. Another question, l know there is the lottery system as well as point systems here in the US, especially as nonresidents; how does it work over there or in other countries?
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
I've bagged countless deer over the years with. 243 ... love the round. It's like the wheel, no need to reinvent it.
I'm glad there aren't engineers that think like that. Otherwise we would wouldn't have indoor plumbing 😅
@@nunzionapoli6325or thousands of other modern day conveniences. Lol. Absolute truth
I have taken deer with .243, .260 rem, 6.5 crdr, and 6.5-284; the deer never knew the difference!
No, they never do. Cartridges differences are for humans to understand and appreciate, not deer. A 22 rimfire to the heart is just as deadly as a 300 Win Mag to the heart. But the Win Mag bullet is easier to deliver to that heart from 300 yards out.
man back in the 2000's you couldn't get me to put my 6.5-284 down lol....what a fantastic round for the time.
.243 is cheaper and is available at most stores if your in a remote town/location
In my experience currently where I live, the exact opposite is true. 243 ammo is nowhere or very limited selection. 6.5 creedmoor is everywhere and in many many loadings.
For me I can’t find either. 45/70 and 308 is everywhere all the time Around northern Michigan.
Not cheaper
I will stick with my 243 .
The 6.5 is a great round. But I will always have a soft spot for the 243.
I'm 69 now and bought a .243 Win just before I turned 17 and I too have a soft spot for the ,243 Win. I have also killed several truck loads of game with the .243!
Both 243. and 6.5 creedmoore are great deer cartridges
I'm not disagreeing, but when I went hunting in RSA for antelope sized game they would not let me use a 243. Reason, too light and velocity too fast for the ranges that the game might be engaged in bush and we might meet something else which would require a bigger round. Used a 30-06. Everything was DRT, but what would you expect at 150yds with a 180gr.
@@csjrogerson2377 What does DRT mean.?
~I saw Jim Shockey hunt with 2x muzzle loader rifles in Africa on TV. A fellow next to him carried his second muzzle loader rifle. Jim took one shot then the fellow handed him the other rifle for second shot, Jim solved the problem of getting off a quick second shot by using 2 rifles.
@@royjohnson465 Dead Right There.
@@twlongtine Thank you, I will stick with brass metallic cartridges, because muzzle loaders are way too slow with a badly inefficient second shot. Even a single-shot brass cartridge rifle like a 35 Whelen, 338 Win Mag, or 45-70 >>"is" far better and vastly more superior over
Dead is dead! Take your pick.
The 243 win can drop down to a 58 grain for coyotes, through in a 100 grain SP for whitetails and you are good. 243 a bit more suited to varmint/whitetail. I have been shooting the same bullet/load for both for many years. Try reloading the 85 grain Sierra Gameking HPBT. Lights out with a good shot on both every time. Yes, hammers whitetail.
Nothing wrong with the 58 grain for whitetails. Its hard on em.
Right Jay and one can get 243W everywhere.
95gr HPBT has an amazing BC compared to a lot of other rounds.
I shoot 95 sst in my 243 extremely accurate with 41.7 Imr 4831
@@baobo67you can get 6.5cm anywhere also
The .243 Winchester is probably the perfect deer cartridge in my opinion.
It’s an amazing little round.
It’s great for hogs too.
It is!!!
@@ericdanos373 the only deer I’ve ever killed with a different round was a button buck with a 30-30 and it’s the only one I’ve had not just hit the ground with a good shot
6.5 creedmoor and 300 blackout are more fun tho
I look forward to everything you post sir, thank your for what you do!
And I second that !
3rd
Whew you covered a LOT of property on this one. I find myself agreeing with you. Your presentation and information is spot on. Thank you sir!!!!!!!
I often listen to your channel while my daughter is sleeping/falling asleep. I appreciate your approach on your videos. I know I can learn about cartridges and or firearms without chaos. Just the information looking for!
Thanks for another video, I enjoy learning.
I love your vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. Great to see your enthusiasm hasn’t waned over the years either. Thanx so much, a truely great man
Thank you Abbey.
Thanks for all of your hard work sir!!! Both honest and humble.
I learned something new today about how angles effect trajectory. Thank you for that!
I really enjoyed the simplistic explanation for shooting up or downhill at game.
Ron, Thank you for answering my question. Somehow, I missed this episode until now!
Again, thank you so much!
DOn't forget the 6.5x55 Swede. The surplus rifles have a fast 1 in 8,6 twist and can stabilize a pretty long bullet. SAAMI loads are reduced pressure rounds because of the number of surplus rifles. Handloaded for modern rifle (lots of them in Europe) The Swede gives up nothing to the Creedmore. It is still widely used in Scandinavia for taking moose and large antelope in Africa
This is true for a lot of classic cartridges. Especially for hunting purposes. While the technical advancements in recent years are neat, they aren’t really necessary.
There’s not many problems and man can’t fix with $700 and a .30-06. Or .270, .25-06, .243, 7mm-08, .308 or 6.5 Swede.
That's the one I use.... one of the first.
The uphill downhill things was a great explanation. Especially about overestimating.
Remember as a kid going up to top of John Hancock building and looking straight down ( or so I thought) to see a chalk outline of a body on the sidewalk (someone's idea of a joke)
Got outside to find it like almost a block away.
Tree stands would be some of your steepest angles depending on how high up and how close game comes to it.
Parker Hale rifles were and still are popular here in Canada. Most I have used have been sporterized Lee Enfield’s in 303 British. My first rifle was such a gun. Seemed to take game just fine!
I believe in sticking with old school calibers. I’d go with a 243 and some 80gr tsx for deer & some 80 grain ballistic tips or reg soft points for varmints, but that’s just me
My first deer rifle was a 243 when I was 10 years old yes I have other rifles as well but my 243 Winchester is always my go to as Old faithful. Especially with newer hunters or younger hunters that will recall really allows them to make precise shots that hit deer in the vitals every time!
Thanks Ron as always very interesting info on the shooting sports.
Ron, the 243 is all they need. I shoot 55 grain Nosler BT powered by VARGET, leaving the muzzle @ 3950 fps. I seldom if ever get an exit hole, but if it does...... it's UGLY.
For deer/antelope, the 85 or 90gr Nosler Partition. But lately the Barnes 85gr TTSX are kickin butt and takin names.
We moved to Peoria Illinois back in the mid 60s. It was right about the time that the Shooting Times was getting started. Somehow, my dad got to knwo some of those folks. You kind of remind me of being 10-11 years old and hanging out with him and all these really knwoledgable guys and just talking about species and hunts and elk camps and rifles and cartridges. It really locked me into a lifetime of enjoyment with all the shooting sports from hunting to bullseye pistols to IPSC. Such fun!
Most decent range finders these days have an angle compensation mode that will give you the horizontal distance. Calculate your bullet drop based on horizontal distance and calculate wind drift on actual linear distance and you're done.
I’m in Texas. Not everything is bigger here like they say, so pretty much anything works for the Chihuahua size deer.
I remember when I first moved to texas from Nebraska. To say I was in shock when I saw the turkey damn near dwarfed the deer is an understatement. The biggest texas deer I ever took was the same size as a Nebraska fawn 😂
Yukyukyuk! I’m in New Mexico and those Chihuahuas are scared to come over here!
You mean I shouldn’t use my 28 Nosler next weekend?
@@raider2503 always use your 28 Nosler!
@@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 Ay,Ay Captain!
Had one of those frozen barrels, when I got it back from them, I was amazed at the better groups I got, and also doubles the life of the barrel. Kentucky
I’ve shot squirrels from trees at steeper than 45-degrees, Ron’s reckoning is precisely correct. It works because the scope reticule is orthogonal to the sight axis.
Great information. Good job. Thank you for the hard work.
Good explanation of shooting up or down angle. Shooting at a downward angle causes a little more bullet rise but they both cause the bullet to strike higher. It's sometimes hard for people to understand this and will argue with the psychics of it.
I killed my first buck with a .243. I just killed my second about 25 years later with a .30-30. I'll kill my next one with a 6.5 Creedmoor.
Love your content!
The Parker-Hale bolt action rifles were Mauser 98s (basically). I used to use the Parker-Hale bolt for my Mauser conversions. They fit a military 98 action perfectly. Most parts were interchangeable but the bolt body of the PH had to use the PH firing pin.
I teach that Math as a High School Math teacher. Your figures are correct (but we already knew they would be). Thanks for the great explanation!
shot my first deer with a .243 at nine years old in the 1990’s as many kids used to do. I am sure that the caliber selection for youngsters and first deer has broadened and expanded over the years with the popularity of .223, new calibers developed, et cetera. But for a time period of maybe forty or fifty years there was an actual tradition amongst many American hunters of “getting your first deer with the .243”
I am looking at buying a .243 for this reason because it will be easier to manage for my wife and kids will be my first deer rifle
@@daimyo1959 try a gun shop with a large number of used rifles 243 in rem model 700 is just a good lightweight solid rifle and not too light to allow more recoil control with smaller kiddos say 6 and up
@@RamboniiWasn't there an issue with the Remington 700 firing unintentionally? Grease/grime buildup on the sear causing it to go off unintentionally or something?
I love me some precision peep sights. I"m 61 and I still have pretty good eyes.. Sometimes up close it's a little blurry, but hot bad.. I used to have the best eyes when younger and won more than a few local rifle competitions.. Varmint hunted with a rifle with open sights for a long time.. Mini 14. I did use a scope later because I was shooting a really long way with some of the ground hog hunts and needed it to see them at all..
Great show.. Love this show..
Thank you Ron!
They both work fine.
For steep shots we have a saying in German: "Ob rauf, ob runter, halt drunter" (If up or down, aim low)
As always a delight to listen to you.
I'll try to remember that.
Really enjoy your show !! Watch as much as I can !
Thanks Bill.
Both work. I like both. .243 is not as easy to find as it used to be. 6.5 is everywhere now. One of each! Good call.
Awesome, my trigonometry class is paying off. Unfortunately, i was really slow at the equation. Thank God the range finder does it in seconds vs. my minutes. 6.5 vs. .243 relevant comparison. Thank you.
The 6.5 is the deer caliber here for sure!!! drops them in their tracks. My first deer with the 6.5 and i tell you i have a new favorite for Deer. They just drop or at least this one did not even one step. Very impressed with this gun i used the 140 grain Hornady . Not only does it drop them in their tracks it is a pleasure to shoot. Glad i picked up this caliber 🙂
Thank you for this informative and entertaining presentation.
You are most welcomed, sir.
Thanks!
I have best of both worlds 6.5 x 55 which was always my deer rifle and a great one, but a couple of years ago a very high quality 243 feel into my hands I suppressed it and put some very good glass on it I'm older and richer than I used to be so why not have something very nice to hunt with I love that it has almost zero blast and minimal recoil but I can't part with the 6.5 after all its still good so I have gifted it to my son who lives a long way away so I can fly down to his place and not take a rifle :)
It's the distance in a strait line horizontal, not at any angle, upwards or downwards. The newest rangefinders have the adjustable readings and have the line of site, and the angle adjusting readings. This will do the trick for the shooting up in the hi country.
Thank you as always Ron. Great information, well presented.
Keep things simple. For most shooters the .243 is readily available in popular weights. The 6.5mm offers some heavier bullets and all of the good that comes from that. Nosler used to make a 6.5 partition bullet that was so good.
1952 FN .243. Never let me down.
I pride myself on shooting well. I have competition shot. But I am a hunter. I did and do One to be better at the other. Hunting is the most important to me.
Six of one - half dozen of the other. Both will do the job fine. The 6.5 will retain velocity/energy farther and have less wind deflection if you hunt at longer ranges. The .243 will shoot flatter initially. Hunt with the one you have, or if you're in the market, buy the one you like better.
Another great one Ron! 👍👍
Thanks Mike.
6.5 Creedmoor or .243 Win would be perfect for this role. Carry bullets appropriate for the quarry. Barnes Varmint Grenade for Predator/Furbearer hunting, and Barnes TTSX for medium sized game.
1
Those Hornady ftx 30-30s are no joke. Drops a moose within 120 yards pretty effectively.
I use my 243 for Nephilim! My bowie knife for prong and white tail, the look in my eye for coyote!
I thought Nephilim were endangered. How did you get a permit/license?
I mentioned this Ron, on your "TikTok" or "Instragram" short on this subject. The .243 and 6.5 mm Creedmoor should be compared to 6 mm Remington. Its performance is very comparable and superior in some criteria but the 6mm Remington is often overlooked.
Super expensive ammunition
But the same price as the .243 if you reload. Maybe a few more grains of powder depending on bullet weight. I have both, love both, but would choose 6mm Rem if I had to choose one.
@@ryanj9364 if I was a dedicated 6mm shooter, I would choose the 6mm Remington over the 243 win. I’m a handloader though. If I wasn’t a handloader I’d prolly pick the 243 due to more factory offerings. Performance wise the 6mm rem is better than the 243 in my opinion.
@ron, an important note about cryogenic treatments of steels is their purpose is to enhance hardness without developing high Internal stresses. Stresses will make it more likely the barrel could fail or crack under extra force but they wouldn’t cause asymmetric behavior during heating. You might see a a highly stressed barrel warp after getting over heated but once this occurs it would not return upon cooling.
It’s important to not confuse hardness, strength and stiffness and other properties.
Cryogenic treatments aren’t completely understood either and how they are performed is critical. I’d be careful about how they’re advertised becuase just taking a barrel down to -190C by tossing it in LN2 isn’t going to give good consistent results.
So far, the creedmoor has been very fur friendly for me, 6.5mm hole going in, 6.5mm hole going out. That’s with a broadside behind the shoulder shot, a high shoulder shot might be a different story
My dad ( born in 1928 ) could not see very well. He never had glasses until he was an grown and mother talked ( nagged) him into getting glasses, ( or so we were told). He used a single barrel shotgun with single o buckshot up untill he was about 60 and had never taken a deer. My brothers and I had taken several and even our kids. My brother, my son and I all bought Savage 110's in 7mm mag. Dad was in deer stand with a shotgun and buckshot one morning and when son and I picked dad uf for lunch he told us he had seen a nice buck about 85 yards out but wouldn't shoo it because he didn't feel he could hit it. Brother wasn't home so we took dad back to the house and confiscated the shotgun and stuck brothers 7 ag in his hand and said " Dad, try this" the first deer stepped out and dad looked into the scope. He said " It looked like it was in my lap, I started backing up." Dad took his first deer in about 60 years because of that rifle and scope. After that you couldn't separate dad from "his "rifle ". No, Brother had other rifles and didn't mind a bit about dad using it. Dad made up for lost time after that deer hunting and was very successful.
The point being, if you can see real well and know the limit of your distances, go for it. On the other hand, that scope can make a world of difference in your hunting. It could be the difference between 100+yards and 500+ yards to having deer steaks. Just ol Bills point of view.
If you mainly hunt deer and just hunt coyotes now and then, I recommend the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Specially if the deer you hunt have large bodies.
The .243 is decent/good on deer, but if you hunt in an area with big bodied bucks, you will need to be much more careful with shot angles than you need with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
With the 6.5 Creedmoor you can either use 85-100 grain varmint bullets on coyotes if you don't care about the pelt, and if you care about the pelt, you can either use FMJ bullets or you can use expanding bullets that don't expand much on light game like coyotes and the Barnes TSX bullets are good for that.
If you want to keep it simple, you can load the 6.5 Creedmoor with the 120 or 130 grain Barnes TSX bullets and use the same load for both deer and coyotes with great effect.
Personally I prefer the TTSX or the LRX bullets on deer, but they are usually not gentle with the pelts.
Specially not the LRX.
But the 127 grain LRX bullet is an amazing long range hunting bullet on both deer and coyotes.
If you mainly hunt coyotes and/or the deer you hunt are not that big, then the .243 is a great choice as well.
Even the 223 can work well on deer if you make sure to use high quality bullets, like Barnes bullets, know how to shoot and where to place your shots.
I have shot many deer with the 223.
And it is a fantastic cartridge for varmints.
Also im enjoying your videos because your knowledge on cartridge is amazing an I like the fact your not like everyone else that thinks you need this giant caliber to kill a white tail... kids knock them down with a 243. Its all about shot placement at the end of the day
I suppose the differences in average deer sizes by region and species can alter the more practical choices of cartridge size. .243 Winchester has taken a lot of big deer. 6.5mm bullets should have a little bit more insurance policy built in from weight and calber. The cartridge case they are thrown from is a variable that can change things a lot of course.
My old rem 788 loves that combo
I use a golfing rangefinder with pin finder and slope finder , range it and it gives % of slope and a adjusted yardage up or down! 👍🏴🇬🇧
very informative thanks man
I have a friend whose brother is a large ranch owner in Zmbawa and he and Rico were pretty much raised in Africa and both professional guides/hunters. I was told by both that the .243Win is good medicine. Not that they would go for a Dangerous game with one. But comparing the .243 to the 6.5 is almost like comparing apples to apples. Oh, let's throw in the 22-250, 6mm, 6 Creemore, 240 WBY, 25-06, and everything in between. Put the bullet in the right place and then let's argue over which dead animal is the deadest. Yes, the 6.5 is bigger and can be heavier but dead is dead, really? Let's go elephant hunting with a 6.5x5. No? Bell did it 100x. Bullet placement and construction are everything.
Amen
Inside 300 yards and under 300 pounds are my personal restrictions for the. 243. That goes out to 450 for both criteria with the Creedmoor.
Trimming my plants in the basement well listening to Ron. Thanks for the great content my favorite gun channel on RUclips cheers from Canada 🍻
Some say trimming some say shaping. I’m guessing it’s not tomato plants
😅 LOL
A better way of thinking about angles is to think about it as shooting less distance. So your holdover is less. More like holding on the target and less inches over the target.
Many rifles would deform bullet tips in the magazine during recoil. I had a ruger 77 in .270 that was bad about that and a Parker Halr .270 that was also prone to deformity tips. I seem to remember that polymer tips were originally designed to address that issue.
most of the decent range finders today can calculate the True Ballistic Range, which takes incline and decline into account. If you're going to be shooting at 600 yards you need a rangefinder in any case.
My .243 , M700 BDL has been filling my freezer since 1977, for whatever that’s worth.
💥The 243 is just a sweet Rifle.!!!💥
I read that the 243 with a 58 gr bullet is very good for taking coyote and saving the pelt. As good or better than the 22-250.
Good comments bout scope use, and lining up open sights. Critical, but seldome mentioned, is correct stock dimensions. Not quite so much as with a shotgun, but still very important. If your gun doesn't fitn you, you `ain`t getting the best shooting it can provide.
You're correct about there not be a stopping round, I've been knocked over by a cape buff that took 3 X 375 mag and 3 X 458 rounds. It was dead on it's feet but still had enough momentum to knock me over! Big rifles will turn most big game but not stop them.
As for 6.5, I dearly love my Swede.
Ron, the shooting on a hill is simply a horizontal distance. At a 60% slope, COS is .5 so the horizontal distance is 1/2 the distance your range finder tells you. (I am a math teacher, not a good shooter.)
“Hey, why not get one of each?”
Two words: my better half. 😅
I have both!
6.5 also has Hornaday 90 grain varmint round.
If you ask people who literally feed themselves with a rifle, I bet most will choose the .243win. On a moose hunt in Newfoundland my guide told me that every moose that he personally killed was with his .243win. I left mine at home and used a 30.06 and my .270win. The .270 won out only because it was a tack driver!
Love listening to you Ron but I have to pull you up on this one. Gravity is constant. What changes is the horizontal distance to the target. If your target is 600m away up a 45° slope, it’s only approx. 430m away on the level. So adjusting your scope to 600m will see you shoot high. Adjust to 430m and you’ll be on the nose.
Glad when I listened further we were pretty much in agreement but the gravitational effect isn’t different
I use a Leupold TBR Range finder. Set for my cartridge. Range your target: it reads the Shooting solution. Do what it says.
How about a compromise cartridge for deer and various fur bearing varmints
6mm creedmoor.
Capable of launching short fast bullets like .243 and long high BC bullets like the 6.5.
Never thought about it this way before. Bear's head has sloped armor.
The “Tipped Core-Lok” is also a was to raise the price from low to mid $20s to $30-$50 a box. 😳
I used to use a .243 for whitetails loaded with a 90gr Barnes X bullet & Varget. Never lost a deer.
How much Varget?
I don’t recall. I used a Barnes manual and went a few grains under max.
Omg!! That’s crazy!!
One of the key points to remember about selecting hunting here in South Africa is that shooting game animals from a vehicle is illegal as is shooting at night with a light unless it is for certain animal species such as jackal or baboon as part of problem animal control programs. Game cullers / game croppers have to obtain special permits for this which are made out by the provincial conservation authorities and are specific to the game cropper, the farm and the species of animal to be culled/cropped. Private game farms have to submit their annual game counts and veld assessment in order to obtain the licences for how many of each species, number of each sex etc can be hunted. In addition to that the hunter has to have a permit for each animal which in the case of a foreign hunter is obtained by the Professional Hunter (PH). Book hunts through outfitters who can provide a list of references of hunters that have participated in walk & stalk hunts or other legally and ethically accepted methods of hunting in South Africa. There are some unscrupulous outfitters and Professional Hunters who will bend or break the rules to get their clients list of animals regardless of how impractical or bizarre it is. Foot pounds of energy is the direct measure of how much your feet weigh at the end of a long day and how tired you are and is directly proportional to how long you remember the hunt when you finally get the animal you are after. The only way to experience the African bush veld or savanna is to walk through it. Not to drive down a dirt road and shoot from a platform on the back of a 4x4. I understand the same applies in the USA. The various sport hunting associations in South Africa and other African countries all have web sites and will happily provide information regarding local legislation and ethics.
Core Lokt Tipped is a redesigned profile from what I have read..its not simply a tip stuck in the tip of the old one.
Ron, Did you run a 3 shot group through your RUclips award? I was thinking it was my screen. Lmao. It looks like a nice group. 😂
30-06
Scope can be a benefit in low light.
I like the 6,5-300 .
It'll be really cool if you can take video of targets on hillsides that look really steep, and then show what the actual angle is
The 243 has been around a long time, and has only others trying to compete,😂😂😂💪 I love my rem model 788, from, 70 grain too 100 grain, it's the rifle under 150 yards I know the bullet will hit with in an inch or so of my aim, at bench, I can drive primers out of back of other center-fire brass, at about ,75 yards, easy over and over, true tack driver, and 100 grain at 100 yards,white tail drop where they stand
The .308 is a 600 yard deer round with 150 grain spitzers and will reliably take down elephant, rhino and cape buffalo with 220 grain solids. Easy to load the .308 down for reduced recoil and shorter range use.
I just got my own 243 win and didn’t have a second choice. It’s what grandpa used and it’s what I’m using. Even taken 4 elk with one!
How many have you wounded and lost?
Grandpa knows best
You dont need to bother with the cosine, just get Strelok on your phone and it will let you know,
Ron was spot on dont worry if its a near shot but out past 300 aim 2" from chest of animal or the brisket as mentioned
Right on, Rob. Computing programs on one's phone are a fine solution IF you don't mind having/needing a battery powered device to help with your shooting. Many don't trust such tools. It's always wise to develop the skills to "do it yourself." For many of us, the easiest way to do this is by stalking close enough. For some this is 400 yards, 200 yards, 100 yards, 25 yards -- whatever. One thing is certain: the closer you are, the harder it is to miss. Nevertheless, many can miss a moose at 30 yards. (Of course, you can always consider your rifle as a high tech tool that can fail, too, which leaves you with your hands and a big rock...)
I've killed over 100 deer and hogs with a 243 the last 40 years. I have two still that are used to kill game every season. I have a couple 6.5s also myself I can't tell the difference in either on game. I use very fast 80 gr ttsx in the 243 and I have shot 180 pound 8 point in the chest straight on the bullet went completely through the whole buck out the back ham. Honestly I think the 7mm08 is a step up and is the very best southern game getter. The other new things are selling points to make money for ammo companies and sell 15 pound rifles and bullshyt kids into thinking they are Quigley from down under.
7x65R, 7x57R or 6,5x55 SE