History Buffs: The Bounty
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2023
- A look into the real history of the one of the most famous events in naval history and how historically accurate is the movie The Bounty.
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We have Anthony Hopkins, Daniel Day-Lewis, Laurence Olivier, Mel Gibson, and Liam Neeson all in the same movie?? Looking back across 40 years, that's one hell of a cast.
And Bernard Hill (Yosser Hughes) who later captained the Titanic 😂
@@fredbloggs5902 and more importantly was the king of Rohan
I don't think I've seen Mel Gibson and Liam Neeson so young...
One of the few films Mel Gibson has done, that are actually somewhat historically accurate
One of the great casts of all time. Edward Fox was a big actor at the time too and Bernard Hill would become so, and the supporting cast is filled with highly successful British character and TV actors.
A little fun fact about Bligh's ability to map the islands he was visiting: The map he made of Hawaii while traveling with Captain Cook was still in use in the 1960s. It was that accurate. Imagine having the eye of a satelite in times of wooden ships oO
Off on a Cook tangent: I think New Zealand only recently retired the use of one of Cook's charts. I think a little searching on line will show you a satellite image of Newfoundland, and Cook's original chart-- they are astoundingly close. Another little known fact about Cook is that he was the one who found "the traverse", a tricky channel in the St. Lawrence River at Quebec City. This enabled Wolfe to get past the fortress and attain the Plains of Abraham where he defeated the French under Montcalm.
@@rodchallis8031yeah those guys were fuckin colonial androids man they were machines god damn
@@DrBusiness9 We are looking at this era now through a different lens. We're more attuned to the ravages of colonialism and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. However, from a science point of view I think we can still marvel at what Cook and others accomplished when it came to navigating, charting, etc., in the same way we are now marveling at the navigation skills of early Polynesian explorers.
@@rodchallis8031 oh yeah that’s what I mean! Like they mimiced our modern technology as if they were robots
@@rodchallis8031 sorry if I made how I felt apparent a bit fervently
The fact Bligh managed to sail almost 4,000 miles on a rowboat, in one of the most desolate naval journeys and without any charts deserves a movie in its own right.
I feel like it would be a good comedy
@@bumperbonnie5721 Really? I think it would be horrible to see all that suffering.
Is that land miles or nautical miles ?
@@juliebozicevic7398 does it matter? It is still a huge distance
Bro drew a map of Hawaii with bare memory & primitive material. You could not even draw a map of your very neighbourhood
What is an even greater accomplishment is how he prevented those men on that rowboat from throwing him overboard to the sharks.
Bligh's successful passage of the Pacific Ocean on the seven meter long Bounty's launch, with 18 men of his crew on board, is considered as one of the greatest navigational feats of all time. In terms of his ability as a sailor and navigator, Captain Bligh was without a doubt a genius.
Ranks well alongside Shackelton’s outstanding feat of navigation in a similar small boat to Elephant Island and onwards to South Georgia in the South Atlantic.
On reaching land, Bligh left his shipmates and returned to England, leaving his men to find their way home.
@@nbenefiel Source? Especially on that last part. I can't find anything to back it up.
But then he oversaw yet another mutiny in Australia. Seems to have had a talent for that too.
At about the same time as Bligh's amazing voyage, there was a small vessel, piloted by women, that made it from Timor to Australia, where I think they were arrested.
I think Bligh gets an extremely undeserved rap. Genius is not too strong a word for someone who could do what he did.
History Buffs casually returning after 2 months feels like a holiday event, I respect the quality over quantity content
Bro I saw you in a film theory short about Black Panther's blue color
Hah man, I think yours and my RUclips feed must be the same
seeing you in every comment section lately.
Would be nice to have update from time to time TBH, on community tab or twitter. Something like researching for new video, filming, editing, something
@@waltuhgoodman3427 haha I saw that like 10 mins ago💀
Hey guys, I made a geographical error. Kupang is in modern day Indonesia not Timor-Leste! So sorry for this missing this
dw we forgive you, nick
I read a book about this
Aren't there modern descendants of the mutineers and their native wives?
I could say I caught that to make me sound more intelligent...But I didn't.🤷♂️
We shall stone thee for your ignorance good sir!!!
was hoping you could do a video on Munich, Amistad, or even Nate Park's
The Birth of a Nation or Harriet would love to hear your thoughts on the real history of those films.
Fun fact. One of the British ships to find the last mutineers on Pitcairn island was the HMS Briton. On it was a young Francis Crozier who would later go on to be second in command of the Franklin expedition to find the northwest passage. Small world
It's quite a contrast, from the warm, tropical South Pacific to the Arctic ice...
How did you pick up on that?
A couple of corrections on the RN:
1) The vast majority of the Navy's captains were commoners, often of quite modest backgrounds. This was even more the case with midshipmen. Aristocrats preferred the army, where they could purchase commissions, leave was freely available, and there was no hard service required except in wartime.
2) In 1787 there may have been a few pressed men, but not many. With the end of the American war in 1784, the Treasury closed the purse-strings and the Admiralty, as usual, placed the majority of its ships "in ordinary" and paid off (discharged) their crews. There was a surplus of seamen, and no need to press any.
Number 1 would explain why the navy was so successful in their golden age
Very good to know.
His interpretation of ranks in the Royal Navy at that time is very bizarre if not just completely wrong, If you are a son of a peer and end up a sailing master on an unrated cutter something has seriously gone wrong. He referred to the Bosun(Boatswains) and Carpenters as warrant officers which is false they are standing officers. He keeps on bringing up the term “lieutenant commander” which wasn’t a thing, they are referred to as commanding lieutenants, Master and Commander is certainly a rank they are on a different list to the Lieutenants and they have different rank insignia, they don’t command “rated ships” either like he claims. Only so called “rated ships” are post ships and naturally these are commanded by post captains, brining up a short clip of Russel Crow in a Post Captain’s uniform with 3+ yrs seniority is not exactly very helpful when talking about master and commanders either. He was very fixated with class which was very strange since the movie went into that aspect a lot less than you would imagine.
Interesting fact, the Bounty replica used in the 1962 film was lost in 2012 during hurricane Sandy. 14 people were saved, by others weren't so lucky. Very sad end to the replica of such a ship.
I was on that ship for a tour in Galway bay a year or so before it sank. Strange feeling that it’s now gone.
There was no bounty film made in 1962. There was a version in the 50s and one in the 30s I think.
@@Jenalgo I'd suggest looking it up, I'm sure you'd be surprised.
@@Jenalgo There was one film in 1916, two in the 1930s, none in the 50s, one in 1962 and one in 1984 ^^'
I remember that. The "captain" was a moron
It's crazy to think that most of the modern people living on Pitcairn island are descendants of the mutineers on the bounty. It really brings the history to life.
And also on Norfolk Island, Australia , when Pitcairn became overpopulated many where transplanted to Norfolk.
And most of them are p*dophiles too! Look up the Pitcairn 2004 trials
amazing fact
Yea - they carried on the family tradition for roguish behaviour. Some very shady stuff went down there in recent years. Just search for Pitcairn 2004.
It's important to remember Norfolk Island 🇳🇫
The vast majority of descendants reside there, Australia and New Zealand they are but a handful
I am a descendant of Fletcher Christian and love the accuracy of the History Buffs. I hear all sorts of stories and of course the Mutiny features on our island, alongside Convict settlement.
I learned something new by watching this and never considered that things may have been different had there been Marines on board.
One other thing, Bligh was an amazing seaman to get back home and all the while charting different islands as he travelled. But no mention that he actually faced a second Mutiny in Australia.
Have seen the Mel Gibson/Anthony Hopkins version many times over and both actors absolutely brilliant, as were the many other famous actors in the movie.
Thank you History Buffs now subscribed and will be watching other History stories many of hours of entertainment and learning.
Yooooo that is so friggin cool.
Great to see you here. And don't let yourself be fooled. The video above is one interpretation among others. And one crucially important fact it fails to mention is that Bligh left his crew at the Dutch colony and went to England on his own, because there wasn't room for all of them on the ship he boarded. So, chasing after Christian was more important to him than keeping the men unharmed that trusted him with their souls. A great sailor. But when it comes to being a great leader, there's still a lot of questions to be raised.
I watched this movie in my late teens, and I was in awe of how the movie didn't "took sides" by portraying "heroes and villains", but rather showed very convincingly each of the characters perspectives. It's was a little disturbing finding myself understanding and agreeing with everyone's attitudes and perspectives. To this day, I have no idea if I would have ended up in Pictarin, Tahiti or in the little boat with Cap. Bligh, if I had been part of that crew.
I’m completely certain I would’ve ended up deserting or mutiny at some point. I consider myself a hard-working man of honor, whose word is his bond, but I’m also strongly driven by pleasures of the flesh and ending up in a tropical paradise, like to hear the full of beautiful and willing women after a wet, miserable island like England when I’m condemned to poverty and the abuses of my superiors for my whole life well it would be not a choice at all to pick Tahiti.
@brianmead7556
The fact the mutineers may have been killed by the women they abducted is a good reminder of how dangerous this was
"Mutiny on the Bounty" was one of the first books I read on my own as a little kid, the "Great Illustrated Classics" books. Thank you so much for this video!
@Don't Read My Profile Photo OK
Good thing I can’t read
@Don't Read My Profile Photo I did. And your profile photo. And your actual comment. Sorry. Bye.
Hey me too! Have a whole collection of those, they took days of my life.
me too, this along with Batavias Graveyard. I loved reading historical naval accounts.
Fun Fact: in the 1935 version of Mutiny on the Bounty, Charles Laughton had to lose 55 pounds in order to fit into his costume as William Bligh, which used Bligh's actual measurements at the time, and Clark Gable had to shave off his lucky mustache for the sake of historical accuracy because at the time facial hair was not allowed in the British Navy.
Though presumably when the Captain's word is law he could have had a moustache if he wanted, and could have allowed the crew to grow them or beards as well. Of course this probably wouldn't have kept with his cleanliness ideas.
It may not have been accurate to what specifically happened, but certainly Prince Phillip gave special dispensation for all the men aboard his ship (albeit much later on) to grow beards far beyond the length allowed in Queen's Regs.
DAMN!!! Good catch, dude!
He also wore the mustache because he had a long upper lip and looked a lot better with it. It did get him an Oscar nomination though.
And here I thought that older movies didn't care as much about historical accuracy.
@@IzzysTravelDiaries Well, assuming you are a chick you will get the last word on this, but in my opinion clean shaven was a better look for him, and gave him a more...empathetic maybe(?)...appearance. He certainly looks younger in Mutiny. Hell, as far as I am concerned, Fletcher Christian was his most likeable character. He deserved the Oscar nod.
Bligh's open boat voyage is to me, the single most incredible documented sea voyage. His ability as a navigator was sublime and it proves that he was not simply an effective commander, he was quite good. There is no way they would have survived if he was not. Regardless of the might-have-beens, the fact of the matter is that HE brought them to safety.
In terms of the navigation alone, I think this makes him a very good candidate for being the best naval navigator in world history.
edit: A reminder of context. The distance from New York City to London is around 3,500 miles.
If you love The Bounty, you'll love the 1967 original Mutiny On The Bounty starring Marlon Brando.
@@FrameandGame I only enjoyed The Bounty. It is the real life story of Bligh that I love.
Just as with other great real life adventure epics such as The March of the Ten Thousand in the Anabasis of Xenophon. Stories that are similar but fictional (e.g. Master & Commander, which mind you is something I have seen at least 75 times and I think is a few orders of magnitude better than either telling of the story of HMS Bounty), or are fictionalized or dramatized, cannot compare to what actually happened.
addendum: That older version with Brando was enjoyable too. Saw it awhile back.
addendum 2: Thinking about some of the older movies like the Brando version reminded me that I wanted to watch the 1959 version of On The Beach. Its been awhile since I've seen that and I think I shall do just this.
@@FrameandGame In a followup. Damn, I forgot exactly how depressing On The Beach was. Still an amazing movie though. I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.
It's not that great a feat. Fletcher Christian made the mistake of letting Bligh have a sextant. Bligh remembered the latitude of the island, so, using the sextant, he sailed south to that latitude, and, using the sextant, he sailed along that latitude until he got to the destination.
It's called competent navigation.
@@ianlowery6014 Not that great? O wise master of the ocean, let me see you do it.
Punk.
What I love most about this film, aside from the tour de force performances, is the attention to detail. How real Bounty feels. The uniforms are presentable, but not pristine. The look and feel of the Admiralty. Incredible film.
Brilliant film, saw it when it was in the cinemas and have it on DVD.
I enjoyed Caroline Alexander’s book, that was when I realized how young these guys were. In the movies Captain Bligh was played by middle aged men when in real life he was in his early thirties and Fletcher was barely out of his teens.
Hell, many war movies still tend to cast actors about ten years older than the characters would have been historically.
Especially world war 2 movies.
Royal Navy Officer training was literally from age 6 to 14
Christian was 24 years old when the mutiny took place.
A good point Caroline Alexander makes is about the financial situation of the gentry of the ship (there were quite a few acting as ab seamen). Almost all were from declining families, including Fletcher, so they didn't have much to come back to.
The performances in this film are so dang crisp. Anthony Hopkins knocks it out of the park with that single teardrop in the scene where the court declares him innocent.
I never thought I'd see the day. Nick is actually praising a Mel Gibson historical Movie. Great video.
Mel was a young and less established actor here with no input into the writing or directing, so he wasn't able to ruin it
Ikr. Thought he would at least have a pun in there
Lmao right hell froze over especially after apocalyptico lmao
@@Xian109 I heard Gibson was drinking and partying hard during the making of the film and Hopkins had to warn him about damaging his career despite all his potential.
@@markduarte5531 haha I'm sure if he'd been able to he'd have added cell phones and outboard motors to match his time traveling conquistadors and smallpox hahah
In Anchorage Alaska, we have a story about how one of our area features got its name from Bligh. When Cook’s expedition sailed up the eponymous Cook Inlet, it came to an apparent fork of the waters. They approached a nearby native village and inquired what lay ahead. They were told that the northern fork tapered to a river that was sourced by a large glacier, no Northwest Passage was to be found. The Southern one was a fjord with strong currents, and probably also ended with a river. Cook sent his men to map the northern one, and they found it as the natives had said. They named the arm, river, and glacier “Knik”, after the village. Convinced that the southern one was the same and with winter coming on soon, the crew were pretty eager to leave it behind and head south, but Cook ordered them to map it out too. Bligh was in charge of this mission. Upon making it as far as they could up the treacherous arm, and finding no evidence of a continuation to open water, Bligh notated on the chart “Turn, again” (I like to imagine an exasperated exclamation mark). And thus it is called Turnagain Arm to this day.
thanks for sharing
Great bit of history. Thank you for sharing.
Great story man thanks for sharing!! A dream of mine is to serve in the Alaska coast guard one day. I’ll come back when I finally make it to turn again arm.
Wikipedia is certainly not a definitive source, but it tells the story in a slightly different way. Where did you learn of the story with Bligh surveying the southern fork?
@@PaxMagnais there an Alaskan coast guard?
Watching from Norfolk Island! This story was drilled into us as kids. We watched this movie when we were perhaps a bit too young for the subject matter and it's a bit contentious for locals but I always loved it.
Say hello to the pine tree for us!
Hopkins' portrayal of Bligh was unforgettable.
Hoptkins
Yeah It made him sound a bit like Vince McMahon.
@@usamazahid3882Like people here?
Lord Byron favored Bligh. Read "The Island."
Hopkins deserved an Oscar nomination for his role as Bligh.
I'm not a big fan of Mel Gibson, but the way he played Christian is spot-on. In interviews at the time, he said he saw Fletcher Christian as a stupid, self-absorbed and hormonal boy physically and mentally unable to resist the temptations offered by Tahiti. Gibson brings that out brilliantly in this movie. Far from the heroic Fletcher Christian of other movies, Gibson's Christian is an utter twit who was unable to think past his own undergarments. I thought it was unfair that he wasn't nominated for any awards, because to me it's the most true-to-life portrayal of Christian we're ever likely to see.
I also think Mel Gibson was spot on in that assessment of Fletcher Christian. I don't really understand the depiction of Fletcher as a dashing and romantic hero either, because that's absolutely not the impression I have of him.
Bligh may have been a tyrant but he wasn't the one who basically left his captain and fellow crew mates to their slow, agonizing deaths just so he could get back to Tahiti.
The fact that Bligh ended up saving most of his loyal crew while Fletcher Christian's mutineers, who settled on Pitcairn Island, ended up running a chaotic and oppressive little colony where they treated the Tahitians as more or less property and ultimately ended up murdering each other, is honestly rather telling of the immaturity and selfish nature of Fletcher and his men.
Never understood romanticizing Fletcher Christian, always saw him as someone who unreasonably mutinied just for some slice of paradise that became a hell that he thought Bligh made him feel in.
We must keep in mind that previous films depicting these events have all been adaptations of a single work of fiction; the Bounty trilogy -- Mutiny on the Bounty, Men Against the Sea, and Pitcairn (or Pitcairn's) Island -- by Charles Nordhoff and James Norman Hall. Such works of fiction require a clearly defined villain and an equally clearly defined hero. Nordhoff and Hall chose to portray Bligh as unspeakably nasty, and Christian as unrealistically heroic. They based their work largely on the account of mutineer James Morrison, who, in his attempt to save his own neck, laid the blame for the mutiny squarely on Bligh.
I’ve always enjoyed gibsons performances. He’s always given performances that have tremendous intensity. Maybe not the greatest character actor though
He really portrayed the sheer hysteria of Christian-something he researched
The casting was spot on, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Mel Gibson, Daniel Day Lewis, Liam Neeson. Also being made in the 1980s with no CGI and massive special effects shows that you can make a great movie by just remaining true to the source material.
Gibson was the big star ar the time. Hopkins had done The Bunker which was a cheap telemovie a few years before. Lewis and Neeson were no names at this time.
Wasn't the burning of the Bounty a special effect?
Some awesome-looking women topless, too. A true rite of passage for a preteen "history buff".
probably a burning model@@huskyfaninmass1042
A truly great film!
William Bligh as a new Captain commanded the HMS Glatton at the Battle of Copenhagen under Lord Nelson, not Trafalgar. Bligh made a key decision that led to Nelson's Victory at Copenhagen.
We're still waiting for our reparations, Nigel. And for the St. Brice's Day massacre too!
Correct; in 1805, Bligh was en route to Australia having been appointed Governor of NSW.
Wasn't Glatton the little Carronade frigate with massive cannons more powerful than HMS Victory?
@@esmeecampbell7396 is a 56 Rated Fourth Rate, an ex-East Indian man with an experimental outfit of all Carronades. Eventually had 18pdr long guns fitted to her lower decks. From what I ready, she was purchased by the RN just to get more hulls in the water against France.
Yes, the commanding Admiral Hyde Parker had signaled to stop the battle while Nelson kept the signals for battle. Bligh flew Nelson's signal which ensured the rest of the ships in his squadron would keep fighting.
After the 1984 movie, the ship was used as a commercial/tourist attraction on Sydney Harbour. My employer had a Christmas lunch function in late 1995 aboard the ship. Feeling very bold, I approached the Helmsman to have a turn at the wheel. (that was not included in the service). I was given the wheel, "steady has she goes", and under full sail helmed HMS Bounty as she passed under the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
It was also used for filming ABC's miniseries "Captain James Cook" in 1987.
The story of the mutiny itself is only a small part of this tale. And one of the precipitating factors, unmentioned here, was the fact that the crew spent their time on the island laying about, and when time came to leave all the sails were moldy, which incensed Bligh.
Contrary to the popular opinion, Bligh was the good guy, and Christian was largely responsible for the debacle.
And his trip across a thousand leagues of sea is legendary.
Then there's the almost Shakespearian unravelling of life on Pitcairn for the mutineers.
And the few who were loyal to Bligh, but wouldn't fit on the lifeboat, were left on Otaheite. Among them was Peter Haywood, who was writing a dictionary of Tahitian to English. The British sent Edward Edwards in the aptly named Pandora to find the mutineers, and when he arrived in Otaheite Haywood immediately reported to the ship, and was just as immediately arrested for mutiny, along with all the other loyalists, who were mostly NOT mutineers, as this program suggests. They were stripped naked and chained together, with no head privileges in a box at the forward section of the ship that was dubbed Pandora's Box. Edwards, who was as incompetent a seaman as he was a cruel human being, ran Pandora aground, and intended to let them all drown until one of the seaman--against orders--unshackled them. Then they chained these pasty Englishman on the beach, in the tropics, with no shade.
They returned to England eventually, and were sentenced to hang. Haywood continued to work on his dictionary right up until the hanging, which was called off, literally at the last possible minute. Their ordeal is woefully understated in this program.
Man, being forced to dance by your boss...When I worked retail in a mall, I had a boss who once tried to make us dance in front of the store to attract customers. All I can say is I understand why they wanted to mutiny.
At least they could sleep 8 hours after all that dancing. If he’d tried to make them do it on the original 6-watch rotation he would’ve been murdered, not just mutinied upon
It was Tahiti that did them in - the life of a sailor in that time was utterly miserable and brutal, like a 50% chance you'd die of disease or shipwreck on any given trip, and you'd be gone for YEARS, living the worst conditions imaginable. The fact that they'd survived to Tahiti and then found this island paradise full of loose topless women and plentiful good times was enough to unhinge them totally from any sense of mission they'd had. Who cared about a bunch of stupid plants? Why take a bunch of whippings over a bunch of stupid plants? Etc. etc.
William Bligh and Fletcher Christian were good friends. Fletcher christian was not senior enough to be second in command and was only given the role on blighs insistence
@@gastonbell108
I mean, damn' I'd mutiny in 2023 for a life with topless chicks, beautiful surroundings and fresh fish and fruit!
@@gastonbell108 This utterly miserable life was often better than the life in england and better paid
Ive always found it fascinating that Blythe actually sailed that small boat to a Dutch post over 1000 miles away with only a few lost men. Im not a navy man,but that seems to b impressive.
Sailing several months in a dinghy with only five days of food and only as much water as the clouds give you? Just chance the land; they can't ALL be cannibals.
They can't all be cannibals. They can all hate the British though 🤣
@@andrewklang809 They don't ALL have to be cannibals. Just the next place you land.....
@@anthonysellick3520 They don't have to be cannibals to kill you, just extremely pissed off.
He arrived at the Dutch colony with leftover food. That's how good he rationed. Everyone also shat themselves on the arrival.
As a kid, I thought the film was almost hypnotic. I was obsessed with the story, and the performances.
I think the movie does a tremendous job correcting the narrative that Bligh was a ruthless leader that didn't care. The truth was he was on his own in very difficult conditions with a crew that didn't want to be there. I think it's a real testament to Bligh's capability as a navigator that he managed to make it back to England. I'd argue he may have been the best navigator to ever live and he earned it from a non-aristocratic background, which is even more impressive.
It was not great navigation, it was simple navigation performed competently by someone who knew the fundamentals of navigation. Christian made the mistake of letting Bligh have a sextant. Bligh remembered the latitude of the island and so he sailed south until he hit that latitude, and then sailed along the line of latitude using the sextant. Anybody fluent in navigation would have done that.
@@ianlowery6014 still great nav in an open 23 ft boat with 18 people aboard
@@davidmacmahon7964 while slowing starving to death
4:00 "He was still a lieutenant" This remind me of the US Wilkes Expedition in the 1840s where Lt. Charles Wilkes tried to become captain before his fleet sailed. He never got the promotion and, in many views, became draconic during the multiple years ago expedition. When the surviving ships returned to the US, he and his officers put court martials against each other. Sea of Glory by Nathanial Philbrick talks about forgotten expedition.
Never even heard of this one before, but after looking up the cast it has literally everyone in it. I'm amazed at how this one flew under my radar all this time.
The score is by the late Vangelis too, and it's a cracker. Sinister as hell in places.
I love all 3 versions of the movie with Gable, Brando, and Gibson. The Gibson movie however, seems to have been the most faithful to Bligh's log, which he kept meticulously even during the voyage to Timor. It's a fascinating read and is well-depicted in many of the scenes.
Good points!
The Bounty is one of my top five movies. It has it all - scenery, music, drama, tension, conflict, romance and action.
Think they had Mel see the metals guy sometime before/during the filming of this [movie]?
Just put it in his food?
(and drink?)
I never understood why they didn't just title this movie "Mutiny On The Bounty". It's such an iconic title. No one would've confused it with other versions.
I think because this movie is deliberately NOT an adaptation of the book Mutiny On the Bounty.
3 Movies with the same title and no one would get confused wich version? Dream on.
Have you ever tried to Google anything sharing the same title? You will only get the newest released version. If you don't remember the exact year the older version was released, it's going to take some time.
@@BrettonFerguson In 1984 when the film The Bounty was released, Google would still not exist for another 14 years. No one was "the web" as we know it today to look up information about films. Blockbuster wasn't even founded until 1985.
@@brassmule Thank you captain obvious for telling me there was no internet in 1984. You must be a history buff. How did you obtain such vast obscure knowledge?
A postscript to add on Bligh’s later career was his time as Governor of New South Wales, where he tried to clean up the fledgling colony and it resulted in the Rum Rebellion.
This would have been a good fact for the end of the vid.
And yet the incest and forced child marriages continued straight into the modern era.
Another mutiny for Bligh.
@@JustBadly yes but in that case Bligh was totally in the right. The McArthur's who were running the colony were thoroughly corrupt and despicable people and the British did eventually send a new governor with enough military support to bring them under control at last.
Yes, the Rum Rebellion: the only military coup to have occurred in Australia and, again, Bligh’s leadership becomes a catalyst for conflict.
If you haven't seen it the TV show "Mutiny" with Ant Middleton is great. Some volunteers recreate the thousand mile journey across the Pacific on the same amount of rations as the crew did. It's insane how they managed to do it back then
Out of all the films done on the Bounty Mutiny, “The Bounty” is generally considered to be the most historically accurate (although the film does have its own biases and emphases, particularly when it comes to the personal relationship between Bligh and Christian).
As always Nick, you do an excellent job reviewing this film, warts and all!
Aloha 😊🎬⛵️🤙🏼👏🏼
P.S. If you’re interested, Pacific Islands historian Greg Dening wrote a fine study about the Bounty called “Mr. Bligh’s Bad Language,” focusing on how Bligh’s ill chosen words and personal insults undermined his leadership with the crew, and his relationship with Fletcher Christian.
Highly recommended. 😊🤙🏼
After living in the Caribbean I can attest to the fact that bread fruit trees did make it to the Caribbean and the ancestors of it's intended target group still grow it and eat it. Pretty good potato substitute. Neutral in flavor so can be used in many applications.
That is an interesting fact. Thanks.
It may be popular now, but when Bligh finally returned and breadfruit was cultivated for the first time in the Caribbean, the slaves totally hated it.
At the end, and certainly in Bligh's lifetime, the mission was largely believed to be a waste of time in all aspects.
By Ancestors do you mean descendants?
As Ernie Dunbar notes, the whole purpose of transplanting the breadfruit was so the slaves would subsist on local grown produce and not require expensive imported grain. Since the slaves hated breadfruit and refused to eat it, the plan was a failure.
It is worth noting that the idea wasn't a bad one - African breadfruit (treculia africana) is commonly eaten in Nigera. Unfortunately "true" breadfruit from the East Indies is a totally different vegetable and tastes different enough that the West Africans hated it.
Worth also mentioning that the Portuguese had already introduced cassava to West Africa, and that was widely liked by the slaves and already growing heavily in the Caribbean.
Um I mean good points, high fives all around. I'd make a point to say that nearly everything fed to slaves were scraps their captors often didn't want hence it was unpopular at first. Nearly every bit of captive recipe contains a lot of spice, a lot of heat or a lot of sugar to get away from bland or bad flavor, poor cuts of meat or scrap meat that has to be boiled or cooked low and slow all day long that we just so happen to appreciate today... Same goes for breadfruit. Similar things happen today amongst the imprisoned population. :: Shrugs::
One of my favorite historical movies. Saw it when it came out and still own it to this day. It builds the mutiny up perfectly, the dredd in the score is perfection.
Thank you for the memories.
Same here, I must have watched it 30 times. My kids love this movie as well.
As do mine. It's gems like this that make sad for today's generation, they may never experience these pivotal moments in history.
Now imagining Anthony Hopkins screaming "I am the law!" ;)
Judge..? 🤣
I wait for new HB videos for weeks on end, and they never disappoint. Another gem to add to the film library.
Another great video as always. Have you ever considered doing a review of Liam Neeson’s 1996 Michael Collins? It’s a great film about the Irish war of independence and is an underrated masterpiece of historical cinema. It’s highly accurate to the real events and people who lead Ireland to independence. I’d love to see what you think about it.
Can you please do Glory (1989)?
It’s a great movie that honestly deserves more recognition given the story, acting, historical context, accuracy, and stars
Not really many errors with it and what little there is doesn’t change the tone or message of the story but yeah I agree. Fantastic film.
I second this!
I found the whipping scene extremely unrealistic.
@@William-the-Guy How and why?
I would love an episode on Glory!
I always found the second half of the story where Bligh and his loyal men struggle to survive and navigate back to civilization more interesting than the first half.
Honestly it's true. Bligh seems the villain in the first half, but he is quite heroic leading his men after the mutiny.
@@loganbagley7822 unlike in the Army, Navy officers of the time had to be incredibly capable in navigation, mathematics, command and other things like signals and semaphore. Just to pass midshipman one had to master the skills Bligh demonstrated so well
@@SantomPh Exactly. You could not just buy a commission in the Royal Navy. And although influence played a major role, even the most connected still had to pass for Lieutenant. Most officers started very early in life, like Nelson was only twelve when he went to sea.
@@loganbagley7822 You can't forget that the Royal Navy of the 18th Century was a VERY harsh institution. Discipline was, for lack of a better word, savage. Captains were expected to be very harsh while at sea. The irony of the film (and real events) was that it proved that discipline was a necessity. The mutineers soon descended into violence and self-destruction on Pitcairn once no longer under King's Rules and Regulations.
@@TorontoJediMaster Or they saw their chance of life without rules.
Thanks for this Nick. It is a great film. I have read that book by Caroline Alexander too. If anybody is interested in part of the real story. That book is a must read. The film is definitely the best of all the films about The Bounty.
It is always a great week when there is a new history buff episode!
Thanks for your hard work!
Some performance from Anthony Hopkins, a force of nature, he played a quite sympathetic version of Captain Bligh. Great speaking voice, all those rounded vowels and rolling ‘rrrrr’s’. Brilliant actor, he should have won an Oscar for this performance,
The rolling "r"s and the up-and-down intonation came naturally. Hopkins is Welsh.
"I am in Hell" was my favorite line in the whole movie. Blows my mind that it came from the actual ships logs.
and 'You'll swab the decks! with your TONGUES!'
some of Mel Gibson's finest acting ever imo
Alexander's book notes he 'd been drinking all night and was now nursing a monster hangover.
That scene was amazing. It felt so real. Dude just wanted the Tahitian lifestyle
@@funfunfun3624 The struggle between heart (his beloved and the lifestyle) and brain (his friendship and all he knew in life previously) on full display!
A film I'd love you guys to cover is Paths of Glory. Like you Nick, I'm a massive film history nerd and love WW1 films. I'm aware it was based on a book on an actual historical event but it would be interesting to examine the war from the french perspective and harsh punishments inflicted by the military.
Over *three thousand miles*
Quite simply one of the most incredible displays of seamanship in human history; immediately after some of the worst!
Fantastic video. The aftermath of the settlement of Pitcairn is also fascinating and tragic, you can see how a lot of the cultural and social issues that led to the mutiny ended up playing out over generations to come. For anyone based in London, I stumbled across William Bligh's grave at the church at Lambeth Palace (now a museum) completely ignorant that he was buried there!
Any cultural issues should have been overcome after a generation or so, but with most of the westerners killed that should have evaporated.
Not sure why people think tribal people on remote villages are all innocents who wouldn't hurt a fly.
They are just as likely to kill each other over something they want, or some disagreement.
Fun fact. After the bounty Bligh was given command of the new New South Wales colony in Australia. It wasn’t too long before ANOTHER mutiny happened to him. Seventeen years after the Bounty mutiny, on 13 August 1806, he was appointed Governor of New South Wales in Australia, with orders to clean up the corrupt rum trade of the New South Wales Corps. His actions directed against the trade resulted in the so-called Rum Rebellion, during which Bligh was placed under arrest on 26 January 1808 by the New South Wales Corps and deposed from his command, an act which the British Foreign Office later declared to be illegal.(From Wiki)
The Rum rebellion. So short on cash they were paying people with Rum.
I wouldn't call it a mutiny if he was ordered to clean up trade and the smugglers didn't like that and fought back
Meanwhile in 1791 some convicts from the First Fleet (which established the first penal colony in Australia) managed to get away in the governor's private boat, which they stole. After an epic voyage they reached the Dutch colony in Timor (rather as Bligh had done after the mutiny on the Bounty, two years before). They claimed to be shipwreck survivors, but were ultimately found out as fugitive convicts, and were re-arrested. The escapees comprised seven men, a woman called Mary Bryant, and her two children. The little ones survived the arduous 5,000 km escape in the open boat, but not the miserable trip in confinement back to England.
These events and a few little details in his life make me think Bligh was one of those guys who managed to rub people the wrong way at the worst possible times. He wasn't really unusually harsh for his time. On paper he was quite reasonable in most dealings. But somehow he engendered little affection and loyalty. Or at least not enough when it counted.
My father told me to watch this version of the movie some years ago and I did, and he was absolutely right. The Anthony Hopkins version of Bounty is absolutely amazing!!
Love the incredible amount of info and detail provided through the very eloquent narration. Truly fascinating!
I kind like how GIbson does the "going crazy hand to the forehead thing" he'd later do in the Lethal Weapon movies.
It would be nice to see a series like Hornblower to be reviewed. Since it's only based on books. I think it can be reviewed on the same premise as Master & Commander, trying to show the history at the time. Then being able to film on location such as the historic dockyard at Portsmouth. Although being dramatized a bit which would sway people to not watch it and how not well known it is within the history community. The same can be said for Greyhound, showing how escorting an Atlantic convoy was like and the pressure put upon officers to ensure safe. Then there's it's large historical inaccuracies such as the ship classes and the hull numbers either not being era accurate and non existent respectively (Why HMS Eagle is portrayed by ORP Błyskawica I have no idea). Atleast they try to reference some of the ships that were used for the film such as the reference to the USS Kidd in a line of dialogue which I assumed they filmed onboard, and HMCS Dicky using the same livery as HMCS Sackville.
I agree. I also think that the Sharpe television series, at least the ones covering the campaign in Spain, should also be covered as well after a prospective review of the Hornblower films. The reason for this is that Bernard Cornwell stated that the Hornblower books inspired the creation of the Sharpe novels.
Oh my god this is the first time I hear someone mention Greyhound, a pretty damn nice film, and absolutely flew under the radar. I think the bland plot synopsis for general audiences, its streaming service release on Apple TV (stupid tactic by those sites), and Tom Hanks playing a serious WW2 role, plus lots of CGI, led it to be released unnoticed and ignored. But it's quite nice as far as I remember, and its fantastic to see a modern movie about the Atlantic Theatre of U-Boat warfare since that was still quite popular back in 60s films.
@@GuineaPigEveryday Greyhound was a good movie, marred by 2 things: #1 Tom Hanks, playing a droop-lipped potato and #2 the annoying-ass 'whalesong' leitmotif of the U-boats surfacing and submerging which was supposed to be eerie but was just distractingly irritating to me.
The whole story of the Bounty and the mutiny that followed has always fascinated me, and I loved this depiction of the events. Watched it at least twice.
Thank you for making this video.
They need to make this story as a multiple part streaming series. With the success of AMCs The Terror, I can see it working.
Can we just take a minute to appreciate this cast! I mean... WOW!!!! Anthony Hopkins, Mel Gibson, Liam Neeson, Bernard Hill... I even recognised a few others from other big films! I hadn't even heard of this film before but now it's going straight on lol!
And Daniel Day Lewis!!
And Edward Fox!
..and an amazing soundtrack by Vangelis.
and Laurence Olivier
and my axe!
Pitcairn Islands became a very disturbing place in the late 90s early 2000s with investigations and arrests being made for underage sex with its inhabitants which saw those charged and found guilty having to build their own prison on the island
Fascinating. It is a microcosm of the social ills within humanity
its also predicted that the Pitcairn Islanda
will be uninhabited again in the next fifty years... all the young people are leaving for New Zealand for better economic opportunities and the people staying are too old to have children... once they die human habitation dies with them
Considering the above comment, I say Good Riddance. Let the old and rotten people of Pitcairn have no more children to molest.
Did you see that Yes Theory video where they visited the islands and promoted it and were meeting with people complicit in the abuse? Their video was even titled something along the lines of “These islands have a dark secret” so was fully expecting the scandal but no, it was about the Bounty
Part of the reason the crew of the Bounty liked Tahiti so much was that unmarried women in Tahitian society were highly promiscuous - something like 40% of the crew, including Fletcher Christian, caught venereal disease while they were there. There's debate as to whether this was syphilis or a similar spirochetal disease that might have caused or contributed to the later homicidal madness among some of the remaining mutineers.
Syphilis was endemic to the Americas and one of the few biological warfare agents the Amerindians gave the Europeans in the "Great Exchange" of diseases.
My father was obsessed with this movie and my mother with the one with Clark Gable😅 thank you for this video and for explaining so easily the difference between officer, warrant and enlisted
Harming slaves and marketing their behavior as acting is often humorous (even when you know more than how to market the methods required to do so).
This is my favorite piece you've done so far. Super interesting and captivating story. Thank you!
I was wondering when you were going to get to this one. I love this film. It was SO well done. The cinematography and the casting is brilliant. The score, I absolutely love the Vangelus score. I never would have picked synthesizers for a high seas film set in the 1700's, but after seeing it, I cannot imagine this film without it.
Even if I've never heard of the film or historical event, gotta love this content.
3 films I'd love to see covered: JFK (1991), Zodiac (2007), Zero Dark Thirty (2012)
JFK would make a great episode
Guarantee the rentals go up after every HB analysis
JFK would be good. I remember watching it when I was much younger and thinking, wow conspiracies. Then I watched it more recently and thought it was actually more about a man desperate to find conspiracies.
I just stumbled upon your channel and I immediately subscribed. The Bounty is one of my favorite films and I love the historical breakdown with scene cuts! I'm looking for my next watch!
I really like these History Buffs videos. Thank you very much for your hard work to
make these videos.
Incredibly, the HMS Bounty was not the only mutiny suffered by William Bligh in his long career.
After spending a decade as a captain in the Royal Navy, the government was sufficiently impressed at his reputation for discipline that they appointed Bligh as governor of the New South Wales penal colony in 1806.
Upon taking the post in Sydney, Bligh became so unpopular that he provoked a rebellion resulting in him being deposed in a coup by a cabal of military officers.
You know how he became so unpopular?by trying to collect the taxes from the rich,that were owed.
The mutineers are rich?
@@stellviahohenheim The ones in the second mutiny were, yes. Australia and Tasmania were known for having corrupt officials during the Victorian era and eras preceding it. Sir John Franklin, who would later lead the doomed 1845 Northwest Passage expedition, was subject to a similar issue in the early 1840s-when he tried to make positive reforms to the colony of Van Diemen's land (Tasmania) he turned his underlings against him as this posed a threat to the "system" they had in place, and they launched a huge smear campaign to his superiors in England to get him recalled.
Hard to believe anyone could have any trouble running a giant prison.
@@AChapstickOrange Exactly, the residents are all honest, hard-working folks, and all volunteers -- no trouble at all.
Excellent as always! Really appreciate the passion and the knowledge that is evident in every video.
There is only one minor point within what you could call a footnote; Bligh was with Nelson at the battle of Copenhagen (where he was commended by Nelson for his part), not Trafalgar (Bligh was on his way to New South Wales at the time). After the battle, Nelson sent Bligh to present a gift of Copenhagen porcelain to Lady Hamilton. In the covering letter Nelson commended Bligh for his seamanship and worthy character.
Another footnote Pitcairn became later a pedo Island !
While I've heard of the Mutiny on The Bounty, I didn't know the fate of the mutineers. Absolutely fascinating
I finally just watched it after seeing your video a year ago and it was fantastic. I would happily watch it again
"Mutiny on the Bounty" was my favorite book when I was a preteen. The 1937 film was my favorite movie for years. And in 2013 and last summer, I visited Admiral Bligh's grave at Lambeth Palace as part of my visits to the UK. Thank you for this addition to your amazing work!
Ahh The Bounty! What a great story. Thanks for doing this one! Loved the score by Vangelis.
Great stuff as usual.
Love this film was buzzed to see you covered it 👍
You made this film sound so interesting that I had to stop watching this so as not to spoil it for myself. I'll be back after I watch it. The algorithm is blessed when I see a new History Buffs upload 🥰
It's always a delight to see a new video from this channel! May I recommend "The Last Emperor" (1987), "Pentagon Papers" (2017) and "De Gaulle" (2019) for future episodes?
Just don't look up what the descendants of the mutineers got up to.
Hey Dank, didn't expect to see you here. How's the kids and Sue?
what did they do lol
@@joshua6410 Inbreeding I believe
@@MarceauD Noncing and inbreeding if I recall correctly. Sneaky plug for your own vid there, Dank?
@@MarceauD non consensual inbreeding.....with a large layer of grease
Just found your channel. Absolutely amazing to watch, well done sir. Cheers from Texas
Glad to finally see you make another movie that (a) you appear to respect, (b) I haven't seen, and (c) how I have not heard of this movie especially with the cast of Hopkins, Day-Lewis, Gibson, Neeson, Olivier, and others!
One of my favourite movies. I've watched it off and on all my life. I've always loved the soundtrack by Vangelis, R.I.P. Mel Gibson working with Sir Anthony Hopkins is brilliant.
I've read the book and seen several versions of the Bounty story. I appreciate the background you give, it really helps get a better understanding of the subtleties of what was going on. I never really understood the importance of Bligh's rank or the lack of marines and many of the other details. Thanks, that's the kind of thing I love to learn about!
Bligh suffered a second mutiny... As Governor of NSW he lost control of the colony and ended up being dragged from under his bed by soldiers of the NSW Corps who were in full rebellion over Bligh's efforts to regain control of the colony's economy. We call it The Rum Rebellion. It would seem that Bligh may have struggled in leadership roles!
That is actually the 3rd and final mutiny he faced. The second mutiny he faced is the Nore Mutiny. Of course there are other officers besides. The Nore Mutineers were orderly, politic, and principled. Once their grievances were addressed, they returned to active duties. They were not punished except a few ringleaders were executed by hanging. Bligh played a part in resolving the conflict and he is credited for it. Bligh's 3rd and final mutiny known as the Rum Rebellion is as damaging as his first and most famous one. There are accounts that he hid under the bed in the Governor House which are actually fictitious. Even he got promoted as Rear-Admiral, Bligh's career in the Royal Navy is over and got retired. Bligh's leadership skills are questioned though he has done an exceptional leadership during the castaway on the launch with 18 other men. They travel from Tonga to Timor while only losing one man to the natives of Tonga. Until today it is till debated what caused the mutiny on HMS Bounty. What is certain is that he is a skilled seaman and a navigator .
I was so pleased to see a new video from you thank you!
Regarding the Bounty's return route, Joseph Banks reminded the Admiralty that the breadfruit is a tropical plant sensitive to freezing temperatures and that the expedition's commander should take steps to avoid freezing weather on the return journey. (HMAS Bounty, formerly the collier Bethia, was outfitted with a heating and irrigation system to help the saplings cope with adverse weather designed by Banks personally, but it was untested and consequently deemed to be of questionable reliability.) The movie has Bligh insist on returning by the Drake Passage, giving Christain and the crew a more immediate cause for the mutiny. However, the real William Bligh was nothing if not an obedient officer, so that part of what is otherwise the best film treatment of this fascinating piece of history, is probably inaccurate. The real William Bligh would rather have his ship lost at sea than arrive in the "sugar islands" with a cargo of dead breadfruit saplings.
Or how Captain Jack Aubrey would say: "Subject to the requirements of the service"
Truly one of the greatest channels, no matter the wait for a video, you always know it's going to be excellently made
I just watched it because you of, and man, I loved this movie. The culture clash elements to me are the most interesting. The Tahitians and british can't be any more different in their social cultures. The british man seeing a completely different way of life that they have known, and seeing how much better it is, was amazing to watch. Many times in life you go to a new place, and because the people are different (and much more psychologically better), you feel instantly happier, and you want to throw away the previous version of you. These men saw what they could be, and wanted to quickly throw away the british side of them. Amazing to watch
As always Nick, another great video. And one of my favorite movies.
I have a friend from the Marshal Islands. He looks like your typical Polynesian however, his family claim that they are descendants of British stollaways. My friend finally took a DNA test a few years ago to determine whether is family lore was true or not and it turns out he is 8-12% British!
I am in shock, it is almost like Marshal Islands was a part of British Empire once!
"stollaway" lmao
Yeah, but his brother was his dad, and his sister was his grandma....his Mum wasnt born yet, until his dad bred with his own sister, his aunt.
Dont believe me huh?
Google is your friend.
@@hannibalburgers477 Marshal Islands were actually an American colony but many Americans are of British descent.
@@cocksure8430
Alabama ant got shit on the marshal islands.
I'd just like to say thank you nick. I'm currently reading my way through the Aubrey Maturin series of books and am loving them. It's all because you introduced me to the film master and commander. I think your videos are great for introducing us to periods in history we may not know about and I'm glad you're doing what you're doing.
When the chain of command is questioned, it breaks
This is great as always!
One of my favorite movies! I saw this when it came out and I was in high school. It gave me a great appreciation and curiosity for history. It felt authentic. The story is wonderful.
Living in St Petersburg, FL for many, many years, my everyday walk would take me down the Pier and past the Replica HMS Bounty moored at its end. When the ship foundered in the Atlantic during Hurricane Sandy, it broke my heart, made all the more tragic by the lost of her captain and the most junior member of the crew.
I took the St. Pete Bounty exhibit tour many times. One of the biggest perks of living in St. Pete in those years.
I saw the replica. Wonderful experience!
I recently did a rewatch of all the videos with my oldest son, who has been showing a great interest in history. He's been blown away at everything covered so far.
One topic he suggested was the assassination of JFK. I know not all the evidence is out there, God knows when all of it will be declassified and Oliver Stone's JFK is based largely on Jim Garrison's book. Not to mention the sheer magnitude of the topic will make the review 3 parts long. But if anyone could handle it, it's you Nick.
Keep up the fantastic work!
Love seeing the uploads!
Always high quality and well worth the wait. :)
Even though you only produce one video every few months, I absolutely LOVE the quality and passion you bring to these videos Nick. Keep up the great work mate!
I am never disappointed by a new History Buffs episode!
Excellent as always !
Excellent work. I thoroughly enjoyed this.