Player Piano Revival Episode 8: Re'airing the Pumping Bellows
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- Опубликовано: 30 дек 2022
- #wood #parts #suck
This 105-year-old player piano is in dire need of an overhaul if it's ever going to be anything more than just a shelving unit.
I often feel like I'm operating inside a vacuum in my little piano shop. It's time to change that.
Music: QRS 215 The Original Chicago Blues, Imperial Songrecord 06650 Flapperette, QRS Word Roll 9887 In San Francisco, QRS 9595 King Porter Stomp, QRS Word Roll Q-360 Pump That Player Piano played on a restored 1917 Autopiano upright. 
Наука
Here are some supplies used. These are not sponsored/ commissioned. HUGE thanks to Bruce for...well basically everything.
Bellows Cloth:
www.hirschauto.com/STAYFAST-CONVERTIBLE-TOP-MATERIAL/productinfo/SF/
Silicone Flap Valves (glue to medium bellows material with GE brand Type 1 clear silicone caulk)
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08L3MP8L4?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Silicone Gasket
www.ebay.com/itm/131856892353
Bellows Stiffner
tandyleather.com/products/bag-stiffener
To clarify, I meant to say work at a music store where they sell new and restore older pianos.
Never again will I consider a rebuilt Player Piano too expensive!!
These vlogs continue to amaze!!
Thank you, that means a lot!
Good video,... thanks!
I do volunteer work for a charitable org that runs a big summer show, essentially a live 1930's era museum as one of their income sources. As the guy designated to demo the player piano, I know it could really use some restorative TLC. Your video looks like a good resource if we decide to tackle that job.
Hey COWPOKE, some of those 'OLD DATES' are 'rolling' in 'Dough' !!!
Sure, if you like sourdough.
Great video! Keep up the good work!
So far, so good. Thanks for watching!
BRAVO! Well done!
Thank you!
That vacuum tester is so crazy! How cool
It's like a Demystification Machine!
Please continue this series!! Would love to rebuild mine one day
Full steam ahead!
The sooner you start, the longer you’ll be able to enjoy it!
@@andrewbarrett1537 that's exactly how I see it.
Ah, the joys of flap valve leather!
I remember my first 4 player pianos. I couldn’t get the pumps to hold suction like I wanted and expected! At that time, I got most of my materials from PPCo..
Then I tried other sources, which included some different flap valve leathers. Bah!
The one trait they all shared: TOO HAIRY! The seating sided was way too fuzzy! So, I decided to start by sanding the fuzzy side with 120 grit sandpaper, and would continue until I had all of the fuzz gone. Then, I would scrub the surface with a toothbrush. This treated surface now was much improved.
I then started doing the “ sandwich” by gluing a beautiful suede leather to a piece of bellows cloth. ( as you stated: the bellows cloth was there to prevent excessive stretching of the leather)
Again, and improvement, which I kept using.
Now- I am somewhat ashamed to say that I am going to use the silicone sheet idea that you and Bruce advocate. Being a traditionalist, I am slow to change to modern materials, but hey! Ya gotta do something when faced with the difficulty of getting appropriate materials per original.
Nice videos!
The airtightness and longevity of silicone help ease the shame! The best part of these nontraditional applications: they're completely reversible.
Good morning Nate, I installed the rebuilt Standard pump in my piano last night. I didn't achieve the 60 seconds on the pump test, but I played several rolls and the results were "OK". I used the silicone sheet/heavy bellows cloth sandwich for the inner and outer flap valves in both exhauster bellows. I stayed with traditional leather/shellac seal for all other gaskets. Since we are still in the winter dry period here, I placed a small humidifier near the left side of the piano and it ran overnight. This morning I sat down to play a roll and Nothing! No vacuum!! I had expected the added humidity overnight would have slightly improved the performance. I took the pump back out and found something very interesting. The added humidity had caused the left side flap valve to curl on the edges, since the heavy bellows cloth had absorbed some moisture and expanded while the silicone sheet glued to it could not. Sandwiching two different materials together that react differently to moisture can be a recipe for "no sustained flatness, hence no seal" I replaced both outside flap valves with the traditional leather, put it all back together and all is well again. I think the pump actually performed better than it did last night. Those outside flap valve seals are so important since they seal against atmospheric pressure. The inside flap valves not so much since they are "inside the vacuum" but provide a check valve between the two exhauster bellows as they are being alternately pumped. I'm wondering if you have used the silicone sheet/heavy bellows cloth sandwich flap valves through seasonal humidity changes and have encountered this issue? Thanks! Chip in Pennsylvania.
Hi Chip - I strive to maintain 45% RH in my piano space year round. This is my first time trying the silicone sheet/cloth sandwich. As with anything, time will tell!
Screw maps are king!
I'm sure 50s is just fine, the pump system should serve well.
I was unfamiliar with the "tapping screws with banana" technique, we can't always be bound by tradition!
😁
Screw maps! Thanks for the term. I always called them just "patterns" which is dull, or "voodoo dolls" which provokes funny looks. haha.
Yes! I don't know where I'd be without cardboard. Looking for lost hardware, probably.
As always, the true test will take place in the piano. There are 16 gasketed joints on this pump!
Sometimes, it's good to think outside the toolbox. Thanks for your encouragement!
Remember to freeze the banana in dry ice first.
@@davidoppenheim3979 be sure to freeze only the peel, leaving the inside soft. You want it case-hardened so it doesn't shatter. This is how banana chips are made, I think. :)
@@nateoutsidethevacuum 😉
This is pretty cool. Always wanted to build my own resivor.
Careful with the springs!
Heh, I’ll keep that in mind.
Out of curiosity, doesn’t silicone harden and crack within a couple years?
Nate where are you getting your parts from and are the player piano parts coming from a different supplier. Are there service manuals for the player piano part. Thanks your videos are very informative and entertaining
For parts, check out the Player Care website and Ragland store on eBay. For literature, Rebuilding the Player Piano by Art Reblitz is a Must Have.
When you got the silicone did you have to cut it down to be thinner? It looks pretty thick on the ebay listing.
I think the listing photo is a stock photo and not a photo of the actual product I received. Mine was not too thick.
lol,.. hammering in the screws at 20:25
Nate when checking your vacuum seal on the leather you where using for flapper valve why did you put the rough fuzzy side of the leather down and not the flat smooth shinny side, I would think you could get a much tighter seal with the finished shinny side down.
It's a good idea to try that. I fear the finished side may be too stiff, though.
That's exactly what I thought. My intuition tells me the shiny smooth side of the leather should seal against the wood much better.
Thanks for all of your content, Nate! I am rebuilding a Beckwith player piano, your awesome explanations really make this a much less mysterious task! Can you please clarify for me why you use the iron to attach the bellows cloth?
I'm glad you're enjoying the videos, thanks!
The iron helps melt the hot hide glue into the cloth.
@@nateoutsidethevacuum Thanks! I have one additional question: How do you "put together" the items that you listed to complete your project? I imagine the following:
-Bellows: Stiffener, glued to Bellows cloth (Conv. top material)
-Flap valves: Silicone, silicone'd to Stiffener
Thanks!
@Brent Lorraine for the bellows stiffeners I used PVC-E glue (available from DC Ramey) but hide glue would work. For gluing silicone sheet to anything I use GE brand Type 1 clear silicone caulking.
Thank you for another fun and informative video! Two questions if I may: 1) Where did you get the silicone-backed leather for the flap valves? Did you buy it or make it? 2) What are you using for the stiffeners inside the exhausters? I used to use art matte board in the 1970s. Thanks and have a great day. Greg
The flap valves are Silicone Sheet glued to medium Bellows cloth. I just created a "pinned" comment at the top of this comment section which should help answer your questions.
"Re'airing" = I see what you did there 😏
A pun of omission, I guess!
Very nice video. Where did you get your silicon material you used for gaskets.
eBay listing Closed Cell 12" x 12" BLACK Silicone SPONGE sheet 1/16" thick- High Temp FDA app
Nate, where did you learn to rebuild and restore the piano and player parts, did you have a mentor or someone to show you the way or a course that explains in detail each operation or work at a music store. I ask because I am now a retired metallurgist and am pretty mechanically inclined and am working on a premier 100 plus old piano and player mechanism but its quite a struggle. I have the books you have referenced and they are helpful, even thought about working part time to pick up the mechanics of restoring a piano movement but I am 65 and don't have unlimited time to pick up these traits.
I have dedicated the majority of my time for the past 8 years learning the craft. I've gotten a lot of good help from folks on the Player Piano Talk group at Facebook.
Hi Nate. How come you are working in a fleece jacket when hot gluing bellows? Why not warm up your workshop including bringing the wood parts up to room temperature during this time of year and wear short sleeves? Will give you more time to work with heavy bellows cloth and hot glue than in a cold room.
We had subzero windchills the week of this project and my 122-year-old workroom isn't exactly toasty. The iron works well to re-soften the glue. In a way it's nice to have the glue grab quickly and keep things moving along. If I was regluing a piano bench or gluing veneer absolutely I'd prefer bikini weather.
@@nateoutsidethevacuum Sorry Nate. I forgot that not everyone lives down South where it is expected to be 75 today and 60 degrees tonight! My bad!
Are you in the Minneapolis area?
@@davidoppenheim3979 check back in June!
This was excellent Nate- Both informative and entertaining! I'm in the middle of a second rebuild of my 1918 Standard pump unit which I first rebuilt in 1989. When recovering reservoirs with strong internal springs- do you attach (glue and tack) a piece of pedal webbing or hinge material on the end of the boards to hold the boards at the correct span, install the spring and then cover the reservoir with new cloth? I missed the order in which you did that, and I forgot how I did it 34 years ago ! Thanks- Chip In Williamsport PA
Hi Chip, that method would certainly work!What I did was glue the cloth on the end at the correct span, let dry overnight, then install the springs from the side.
@@nateoutsidethevacuum Thanks Nate. The extra buildup of thickness in one spot due to the pedal webbing was not mentioned as a problem in the Reblitz book, but he did say that the webbing may take some stress off the cloth over the years perhaps adding to longer life of the cloth. Keep up the great videos! Is your friend Bruce the same fellow that did the Player Piano Restoration 101 video? I just watched that - also excellent! ! I'll definitely try the silicone flap valve trick this time around. Take care! Chip
@Ruhl Family Farm if the webbing isn't too thick you should be OK.
Yes - that's the guy. I've learned SO much from him!
Nate, are you applying shellac on the wood surface under the silicone flap valves on the exhauster bellows or do the flap valves seal against smooth raw wood with no finish on it? Have you tried using the silicone sheet (not the closed cell spongy material) as a gasket material to replace the leather strips? On my Standard action lower unit I'm considering using the silicone sheet in all gasket applications rather than leather. If it doesn't work I can always go back to leather. The strips of leather glued to the wood could always have leak paths between the strips whereas the one piece silicone gaskets would eliminate that potential problem. I'm going for 60 seconds plus! Thanks! Chip
Hi Chip. Great questions. For the flap valves, I sanded the wood to 320 grit, sealed it with lacquer and sanded that to 400. Then treated the surface with an aerosol Mold Release product.
I had great results using sponge silicone sheet for gaskets throughout the project. In most cases I didn't glue the gaskets down (silicone sheet only adheres using liquid silicone as adhesive) in the case where I did glue the silicone gasket to wood, I sealed the wood with several coats of shellac first.
@@nateoutsidethevacuum Thanks Nate. I covered the exhausters and reservoirs today. I shellaced the insides of the boards and sanded the area smooth where the flap valves go. I'm going to try the sheet silicone for gaskets between the main wind chest and the exhausters/reservoirs (not glued, just sandwiched between the surfaces). If it doesn't work I can easily disassemble and replace with another material (leather or the sponge silicone sheet). Trying these new materials is a good thing! I should know by the end of the week how this all works! Chip
Do you have links of where I can got the materials you use I’m looking at repairing our Victor player piano
Hi, they should be in a pinned comment on this page.