🛠 How Cold Start Tuning Works | TECHNICALLY SPEAKING
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- #haltech #coldstart #enginetuning
Grab your winter jackets and put on your snow boots because today we're discussing cold start correction maps. We've got a fair bit of theory to cover which is then followed by a software walk-through so make sure you're nice and comfortable before hitting that PLAY button!
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Shortcuts:
00:00 Intro
00:30 Before we start...
01:25 Theory
02:05 What's happening in the engine
04:00 Why a cold engine needs more fuel
05:25 Why ignition timing is important
09:00 Let's put all that into practice - software walkthrough
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OMFG I love you too much for this thumbnail. 😂 The info is great too.
P.S. Haltech if you didn't know, 802 is the phone area code for all of Vermont, the Bernie state!
Gotta love Grandpa mittens! I bet he would be ok with properly tuned engines running on ethanol. No real issues with cold start down in New Orleans
@@25aspooner I would love to find out that Bernie is a car guy, hahaha. He knows Vermonters are independent and he certainly hasn't been pushing heavily for CA style regulations. He knows how it would hurt our lower income folks as well.
Okay I see you got us covered here.... was about to make a comment myself.
@@roygillotti4615 Bahaha yesss! Good to see ya. 😁
Brilliant video, i totally understand the importance of cold start tuning living in central Canada where the winters are regularly -25-30 celsius having worked with Volvo ,Ford and GM and all 3 of them having cold weather facilities here where i live it makes a massive difference and reliability during cold weather performance in all areas, great video thx again 👍
“You’ll probably need a couple of consecutive mornings to really dial in these maps” had me rolling 😂🤣
Very impressed with this tutorial and the accuracy of information. You covered nearly all of the critical components of cold starting without using unnecessarily complex terminology.
And you are 100% spot on about the calibration sequence; for oem cold start cal, we will start with something in both crank and “post-start” fuel adder then optimize crank before moving to post-start, mostly since there’s usually a carryover cal to reference that’ll get it going. I like your sequence though because it keeps you from inadvertently compensating crank fuel from the post-start maps.
One thing I would emphasize about restarts is the relative importance of engine-off or soak time, since this can significantly affect the amount of additional fuel needed on crank and post-start. I didn’t see tables for calibrating this but something to be aware of.
This makes sooo much sense. A straight forward and logical approach. Keep 'em coming!!
I find these videos amazing!!! They give so much insight about how efi works. This with hpa academy I think can give a good starting point on efi tuning!
Great bit of information and very well explained. Thank you!
You guys are legends for that thumbnail and the info ya’ll give is amazing
Alot of valuable info. And even more to think about. Thanks for the video.
Awesome vid, many questions answered, detailed as usual, thanks
Brilliant. You explain things so damn well. This might make my Evo behave a lot better.
Really fascinating to listen to, even for someone who doesn’t have any tuning experience!
This video really taught me a lot and the instructor is so easy to follow, well spoken! I really enjoyed this and will checkout ALL the Haltech videos you guys made :D
Great video as always, very informative and excellent for training purpose too
Great info on here. 👍 Right around 80°C
Awesome video and thank you for making it. I've been tuning on my old Datsun for almost 20 years. And this is one area that I've always struggled. it'll start in the first attempt but if it doesn't fire on the first attempt. it's not going to fire because it's going to be flooded. And that's something I need to get fixed. It would definitely be a lot easier on a haltech unit up and lol im using megasquirt 2 v2.2. Someday the wife will let me upgrade it. Lol the main problem that I have is cranking mode. while cranking it's under the set RPM I have no spark. so I have to set cranking mode low that way while cranking it's above the set limit and it shouldn't work that way. The second problem is I don't use a TPS sensor and I really need one because map dot sucks throttle enrichment and it would be cool to have flood clear.
Cant wait to take this information an put it to good use
Thanks for the great info
Amazing information! I never thought about extending the afterstart enrichment out like that in lieu of warmup enrichment. I will try it for sure.
Good info!! Thanks
Nicely done, Matt.
Greay video, Haven't had a chance to take my car back to my tuner for its cold start tune. So I prime to fuel pump and hit the key let it turn over for 2 or 3 seconds and stop then hit the key again and normally fires.
Wow, all this time I was misinformed and was told that chilled fuel will net more HP.
Thanks for the video I definitely feel better about leaving my in-line fuel filter in the engine bay.
The colder fuel is, the denser it is, meaning the pump and the injector moving more pounds per time, compared to warmer/hotter fuel wich is less dense.
So this fuel density plays some (minor) role in the calculation for the fuel/air mixture.
But if the fuel does condense after the last point of calculated control, wich is the injector, all calculation of fuel density becomes worthless.
Great video. I realized I have every correction table you listed active in my tune, I may have to look at reducing it to just the startup timer and see how it goes
80 degrees .. Following you guys from CROATIA... !! Matija from CHAgarage
Very timely video! This is exactly what I am working on now. Cold start stalling. Won’t start or run unless the throttle is opened to about 10% to about 1500rpm’s. After about 30 seconds, I can release the throttle and it will idle and run just fine to commanded targets. So many cranking, after start and idle tables! Thanks for narrowing those down for me!
I had issues with not enough 'cold' authority in my idle control circuit, which required adjustment of the throttle stop to bring the cold/hot idle range to be within what the idle bypass could deliver. It's worth checking what your cold idle is with the circuit completely open to atmosphere (i.e. maximum bypass).
I didn't even realise there was an option for fuel corrections on cold start, I was trying to tune cold start through idle control. Ill have to get on this in the morning, sorry in advance neighbours.
@@BensDR30 I first have to say that I have a Speed Density tune. Once the car warms up to about 100ect, it runs quite well, but a little too rich at idle and at cruise speeds. Overall it does run to commanded AFR’s under all conditions, but they’re set a bit rich and I’m working those tables too. My TB adjuster was initially set to .4% TPS and had a 1/4” hole drilled in the throttle plate. I played with the adjuster settings from 0 to 10%. At 0 it idled at 500rpm’s on a commanded 850. From .8 to 2.0% it would idle at 850-900rpm’s but that caused my STFT’s to go -21 left and -30 right and the O2 sensors to bounce around full scale and the motor would die putting it in gear and when the fan came on. 10% was too much. So I adjusted the TB back to 0 and plugged the hole. Let it cool off overnight and tried again. Still won’t start until I open the throttle 10% and it idles between 550-650rpm’s. I then adjusted the TB to .8% TPS and it now idles at 850rpm’s.
I’ll cold start it again in the morning to see what it does. If so, then I’ll start working with the correction tables.
I’m probably doing it wrong, but I think the TB needed to be tended to first since it had a big hole drilled in it.
@@BensDR30 Great point!
Feeling the burn
E85 vapor temperature at what pressure? :) Great video. My cold starts are about two rotations but my hot starts are sometimes around 5.. great info and this video has revitalized my interest into getting that hot start to match my cold start cranking quickness.
Great video! I was curious about where
You would throw idle control into the mix through out cold start? And tips with ITBs? @Haltech
Alcohol boils at 80 degrees Celsius. Did i win? Love these shows. Thanks
thanks for all of these technically speaking videos. I appreciate it
I was wondering if the post-start enrichment method compensates well for a car that is started and driven soon after, as well as if it's started and left to idle for a while. I would assume that driving the car would warm up the relevant components more quickly, but tuning for that scenario might cause the car to run lean if it's just left to idle while warming up. Is this the sort of situation where you'd want to blend post-start and warm-up enrichment, or would you just aim for a "worst-case scenario" of idling for a minute, and allow the engine to run a bit rich if you start driving soon after starting?
Obviously this begs the question of why I'd hurry to drive with a cold engine, but the above is why I had assumed a warm-up enrichment map would be taking a larger role than post-start.
nice, very nice
e85 @ 82c
Noticed you’re tuning an elite 2500 (beta) with NSP. Update coming soon? 😁. Love what im seeing and happy to be a beta tester if you need one.
Wow! Talk about paying attention....
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[Easter Eggs are for those who look for them]
@@haltech Hopefully CAN keypad compatibility for the Barra plug in 😍
I'm looking at adding EFI to my late model Sherco 300cc 2 stroke dirt bike with an Elite 550 and the throttle body from a 4 stroke.
Listening to this, I would treat it as a long intake runner set up, but wouldn't need to worry about injector timing as the fuel has first get past the reed block and crank before the ports do the work of timing the intake event.
The hardest part will be having the ecu compensate for the huge increase in air flow when the pipe is active... which can vary from cycle to cycle depending on fire/misfire.
@@nathancoleman3457
Considering running 2 x MAP sensors, one in the throttle body and one reading crankcase pressure, not sure if it will be required.
Will also probably run with TPS based mapping until 10% throttle (rough amount) as you might a big NA cam 4 stroke.
These particular engines run very smoothly, straight from '4 stroking' at idle and then cleanly change to '2 stroking' on light throttle when jetted well on a carb.
They run the same ecu that controls their efi 4 stroke models, but use it to control the electronic power valve system and ignition timing.
I expect the 550 to easily look after fuel only 👍
What can I alter if I'm getting a engine kickback event on startup? For 4g69 just having a few issues, trying too play with ignition timing soe far.
It's reassuring that a lot of this is stuff I did at A-level, remember kids, if you want to know "but why?" it's worth sticking with the academic side for a bit.
Having owned a tuned wrx and now a diesel hilux (1kd common rail) its very interesting how you tune a petrol car....is it possible to do the same but for old school diesels vs new common rail diesel😊
That Audi 80 B3 in the Thumbnail 🤘
Thank you for the ongoing informative videos!
I have a request however - with wideband heater elements, can a feature be added where the heater element can be delayed along with the sensor itself at cold start? If we we’re able to run the engine for say 30 seconds to remove any condensation on the sensor this may help extend sensor life.
This doesnt already exist? I do not have a Haltech yet but I was under the understanding that this was supported, as many OEM ECUs do this. I was going to use a delay relay in my application to achieve this in some capacity.
Thanks Matt it starts on first crank, but idle is a bit rough even when warmed up?
Hey man stop taking all my customers haha!! Jk great information and support as always!
This is the perfect kind of content. Addresses the theory so you understand it. Addresses the practical as well as what will "probably work". Addresses common gotchas, misconceptions or just alternative styles. And it's presented well and doesn't bore. Also the practical graphics were great. Perfect content. 10/10.
There is one tricky thing that has not been mentioned (or I missed it in the video) - not enough fuel enrichment during cold start can cause the combustion chamber to get flooded with fuel and make spark plugs wet so the engine wouldn't start at all. The the goal is to find the right amount of fuel enrichment at first fuel injectors pulse width but better to stay on the rich side rather than keep trying to get the engine sarted many times with not enough fuel for first combustion that eventually will flood the engine and spark plugs with cold fuel...
In winter I used to get the spark plugs so wet with fuel that the engine would not start no matter what... so too much fuel can cause issues too.
Has kinda happened to me too with e85. Mine started to but it didn't fire on all cylinders until it warmed up a bit
Are all of these options available in the ESP software? I know ESP is a bit more clunky and harder to navigate than NSP, by the videos I've seen. Lets say for an Elite 2000, are all those corrections available or are some an NSP thing?
Same question here. The maps are there also in the ESP, but is the background strategy the same ?
I was struggling sorting the cold start out for some time you have to have to make sure the post start correction is switched off
Of you will be chasing your own tale
Don't do to much change at once do one cell at a time
Then once you get it to fire with in a few engine rotations then set up the post start correction table
High Matt, can we get a video on Injection timing?
in the pipeline.
Need a how to tune injection timing please
Don't give up your day job
That motor going in that MR.DUX
Would it make sense to base the post start enrichment on air temp, rather than coolant temp? The fuel rail and tank are entirely separate from the engine and the fuel doesn’t flow through the engine, making it closer to air temp than coolant temp. Also, wouldn’t it better handle heat soak events this way if temperature axis was adjusted accordingly? Heat soak is due to excess heat from the engine bay, which is what would affect the temperature of the fuel. I know a bandaid solution is to place the air temp sensor right before the throttle body, but you still get minor heat soak.
Can haltech tune gdi
My ep3 struggles to start when cold with a haltech ecu and a few others are having this issue, any info on solving this would be great as it's painful starting from cold 😵
Hey! You can contact our support team directly via www.haltech.com/contact-us
They'll be more than happy to help :)
Hey, any chance on touching on some basics using the older platinum sport ecu’s?
We have covered a lot of Platinum series topics earlier on - all those videos are still on our channel it just takes a bit of scrolling to find them:)
Thanks for getting back to me. I’ll keep watching the vids and see how I go.
Aww why did you change the thumbnail? The Bernie meme was epic!
It's back!
We usually run a couple of different thumbnails to see which one gets better results:)
👍
Cold start is driving me nuts feels like one setting is too lean with pops and bangs but if I richem it a bit I feel like it's hydolocking
lesson learnt here..
increasing my prime pulse for that initial kick
I believe e85s combustion temp of 689F and the peak flame temp of ethanol is 1920C or 3488F 👍🏽
80 degrees C!
Love the Bernie Sanders thumbnail.
That thumbnail tho xD. I got a 94 audi 90cs and it looks like that all winter long xD id wrather have snow and ice caked on it than 🧂
80°c for e85 explained at 3.42 in your video
80c. :)
Congratulations! You've WON a prize! Send your full postal address and contact details to joshua.lal@haltech.com
Put "Cold Start Comp" as the email subject. 🙂
nice to see some Monty Python style cartoons and action figures!
I like retarded ignition timing as soon as cold start idle is stable. It makes warm up soooo fast but it makes the exhaust very loud unless you have a stocker.
Id stay away from retarding timing unless youre trying to light off cats quickly. You end up fighting the timing with throttle to maintain RPM.
missed the sweet merch by 2 answers. Dang!
Better luck next time:)
E85 boils @80 C.
Distance problem with the efi carbs
Why isnt there a fuel heater like with diesel engines?
What could go wrong if a tuned car from one morning suddenly began to start like shit and stalling for about a minute? IAT sensor works [gives reasonable readings], spark plugs were changed. Enriching the mixture just results in lower AFR, but no change in engine behaviour. What to look for?
78c for E85
rally style, of antilag video please¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
So the reason why stuff like "Start ya bastard" works, is really down to the fact that it has a low evaporation temperature?
Damn... that would have been a great title for this video!!!
E85 turns to gas at 80 C
"Clear as mud"😂
78c
OK, grab your winter jackets and put on your snow boots because today we're discussing cold start correction maps. We've got a fair bit of theory to cover which is then followed by a software walk-through so make sure you're nice and comfortable before hitting that PLAY button!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Recommended viewing:
How Throttle Pumps Work: ruclips.net/video/DMT9kVO7fUU/видео.html
How Widebands Work: ruclips.net/video/SE4S6qGVzC4/видео.html
How Self-Tuning Works: ruclips.net/video/b_ly9YZodxw/видео.html
How Dyno Tuning Works: ruclips.net/video/rkcYDrwaJBg/видео.html
AFR vs Ignition Timing: ruclips.net/video/aDSZhy551bo/видео.html
80⁰ C for Ethanol to evaporate!
Bit late to the party, but 80 degrees for E85 to flash off
More correctly alcohol turns to a gas at 80 C
@Matt Wright Yeah. I get it. I was to slow. FML.
E85-80, meth-60
80 Degrees C
172
Every chemist knows this. Do i win or what?
Alcohol burns off at 80 C.
That was the question? Right?
Congratulations! You've WON a prize! Send your full postal address and contact details to joshua.lal@haltech.com
Put "Cold Start Comp" as the email subject. 🙂
@@haltech I just Emailed you guys with my details. Totally stoked. Thank you so much. Damn, talk about an emotional ride. 😁
Why Bernie lol? Why Bernie
it's a meme
Unreal vid again 80 degs i think it was
All these other presenters are ok but i miss Dave
Is this a political info..cuh i thought i saw Bernie up in here🥶🥶🥶🥶 🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘🦘