I would just boil it down to one question: do you need to walk/run with them or carry your bike? (especially through mud or uphill) Yes: MTB shoe No: Road shoe
Whatever shoe you are comfortable with is the best. My road shoes had limited cleat adjustment. Switching to Shimano RX8 gravel shoe was a game changer.
i have knee problems, and the float that Speedplay brings to do the table are a game changer for me. I rarely ride any gravel that would require dismounting, so I stick to the speedplays. I do have two pairs of road shoes. One 'nice' pair I use for road, and one that is a few years old that I'm not afraid to knock around that I use if I'm offroad.
Used to suffer terrible pains only on my left foot when I first started riding long gravel rides. Switched shoes to Shimano MTB shoes and has worked and not had the same issue since. I have the RX8 gravel shoe now and no pain so I stick with that.
Happy Lake MX238 user here, both gravel and MTB variants, for all my road and gravel needs. Have always ridden MTB shoes for comfort, but then I’ve never been in a hurry on a bike. 😎
I recently went back to road shoes. But... a twist! I got a spd adapter so I could use a 2 hole Time ATAC cleat on my 3 hole shimano road shoes. It made a huge difference and has improved my gravel experience. Wish I'd done it sooner!
I love the light weight, low stack, and large pedal platform of the road setup (Dura Ace pedals for me), and the DA pedals have fantastic bearings as well. I rode those at SBT Blue course last year where it is non-technical and dry. But for gravel "adventures", or when mud and wet conditions are a factor, one needs the MTB set up. I like the single sided PD ES 600 SPD pedals as they are lighter and lower profile (more ground clearance) than XTR, and more affordable. For gravel situations I find no need for a double sided MTB pedal, as things are just are not that technical. So I guess my answer is both! Mostly I ride the MTB set up more often, especially when going into the unknown... but I sure love the perceived additional efficiency of the road set up (even if it is really just a placebo effect) when I know I will not need to deal with mud or unclipping.
Dylan Johnson advocated using road shoes with a cleat adapter for Crank Bros MTB pedals (Candy/Eggbeater). I’ve tried this since I ride CB; mounting their road adapter cleat on a Giro Empire. Works great and I still have some clearance if I get into sticky dirt that easily clears out on the Eggbeaters.
I am loving my specialized recon sworks lace paired with the Shimano SPD one sided ultegra pedals. Nice platform for a pedal, stiff reliable shoe (no chance of a broken boa) and SPD MTB durability! Another great video!
In case of weight: I ride the S-Works Gravel Recon with 2 Boa Dials without the velcor, ii´s literally the road show with a little knobblier sole, but is same in stiffness and fitting and lightweight.
If we were fully paid professional riders with sponsors throwing new kit at us at every race, then yes, ride what you fancy. In the real world, a mountain / gravel shoe is the best all rounder for the N+1 collection. They can be expensive so just buy the one best pair that suits you.
Shimano MTB for gravel and XC. No knee issues and a wider peddle axle is what I need that these peddles affords . My road bike with Shimano road peddles , I have issues with the knee of and on for years. I choose the the wider axle version . Wider a factor for me is what works. That’s the struggle with standard road bike q factors and standard axle width.
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney I heard that later on the podcast. I wish that every time I had a perplexing question in life I could submit it to a panel of learned experts for a well-researched, science-based opinion. Does fascat do taxes? ;)
My lake "gravel" shoes are MTB shoes with a lighter sole, based on a road shoe. They have a super stiff carbon sole. So I'm not sure the stiffness argument is still valid. Weight, sure, but only for pro's not for amateurs who don't race :)
Wearing an old pair of Bont Cervelo Test Team Vapor shoes with Look Keo pedals 99.9% of the time as my current bike is my Gravel and Road bike. I do have a pair of Crankbrother Candy with some Shimano M162 shoes for when it's muddy or a CX race. I prefer the road shoes and pedals for most of my gravel rides.
To each their own. I would venture to say that unless there is a significant difference in weight, like 1 to 2 lbs., go with what one prefers. I hunt and compete in prs/nrl matches. Would I be packing a 21 lb rifle around hunting, absolutely not but when in the comp world with a heavier bullet, aka, more kick, I definitely want something that reduces recoil. Nrl hunting division there are two weight categories because, yes, who wants to be packing the extra weight. On a bike, similar aspects apply. Lighter bike and equipment and yet enough flexibility to sustain on and off applications to which one will encounter. Great content Ben.
I wear the lightest flat-pedal shoe with crank-brothers pedals those with the pins. And for me it works great! One reason is that I often need to walk several hundreds of meters in them, sometimes a km. Also, while riding, I can adjust and peddle more with the tip or more with the middle of the shoe, more flexible. And very important: in cities you need to clip-in and clip-out superfast and 100% reliable. No I don't do racing.
Thanks mate 🤙. Using shimano gravel rx8. But with lake carbon inner soles arch support. Fill the gap of stiffness and get to walk in the mud at Unbound 🤬🤯
I once said lace cycling shoes were too cool for me, not to mention impossible to tighten/loosen on the fly. However I was able to nab a pair of Addidas gravel shoes ($200 @REI, $54 sale @Addidas!) w/laces and built-in ankle gators and have not looked back! 🙏💕🚴
I prefer road shoes when I know I won't have to get off my bike during the race. My S-Works Vent road shoes are lighter, better ventilated, and I prefer the cleat engagement to a mtb pedal.
I am 56 years of age. I use my Speedplay Frogs still. On everything; gravel and road. Pair the Frogs up with gravel / explore shoes with BOA fasteners. Flat pedals on my mountain bike though.
There is also the single-sided SPD like the Shimano PD-ES600. This gives you a lighter pedal with better cornering clearance for MTB shoes. But it's all about walking and how normal you want that walking to be.
Thanks, Ben, for looking at these shoe-and-cleat combos but what about flats, especially for riders who are out for a good 100-mile performance yet prefer the freedom of not being attached to the bike in case of a fall or simply to easily put out a foot in a corner. I commute on flats and I'd likely ride gravel events on flats. For me, flats just have an edge in safety and at 64, I don't want to fall or slide out any more than necessary to win a trophy in the over-60 class. 😀
you don't need flats to be able to easily put a foot out. get some proper pedals like XTR or similar clipless and learn how to get into and out of them quickly and smoothly. they were designed for doing just that.
@@veganpotterthevegan Thanks for your reply and I have clipless for fondos and such, just that on dirt I prefer not to go down with the ship and spills and pile-ups can leave zero time for reaction and we even see that in video coverage of top riders on gravel.
@@seanmccuen6970No argument and I was a total toe-clip guy from the moment I got a Rixie road bike for commuting to high school in Frankfurt, West Germany in '75 at age 15, later even adding wood-soled racing shoes with a cleat that fit onto the pedal before you pulled the strap tight. And yet on dirt, BMX and mountain bikes, I always rode regular pedals or flats as they're now called.
Dylan Johnson advocated using road shoes with a cleat adapter for Crank. Bros MTB pedals (Candy/Eggbeater. I’ve tried this since I ride CB; mounting their cross adapter cleat on a Giro Empire. Works great and I still have some clearance if I get into sticky dirt that easily clears out on the Eggbeaters.
I use Sidi mountain bike shoes and the uppers and soles with the exception of lugs are the same between mountain and road shoes. Since the I stopped road racing in 1992 I’ve been riding mountain bike shoes. I like a walkable shoe. I raced BMX for 11 years until 2018 using the same Shimano mountain bike pedals. What I found with the force of coming out of a BMX gate with worn cleats the shoe will come out of the pedal. I changed my cleats three times a year. Coming out of the pedal out of the gate can end up catastrophic!
I often suffer of "hot foot" so knit and laces (DMT GK1 for gravel and DMT KRSL for road) have been a problem solver for me. Vented and a little giving with stiff soles.
Interesting to see in the comments what works for each person. For years I rode a trusty pair of M737s on my MTB and Dura Ace SPD (not SL) so not fussed about the smaller cleat and platform. MTB shoes worked for CX and so for me, by extension gravel too. Last year I tried a pair of Shimano RX8s and really was surprised how much I could tell a lightness difference and how much I liked them. So now I'm a believer in a more lightly built road shoe with a somewhat lugged sole.
Being able to unclip/clip back in quicker with MTB cleats/pedals is very appreciated if you have some tech stuff to ride and don't have good MTB skills.
Much prefer mountain bike shoes. Shimano RX8s with XTR pedals. They have been reliable, easy to service and relatively lightweight. Walking is much easier when you do have to hike-a-bike and easy to clip in and out of. I did start with ultegra and look pedals for a while but changed over because of convenience and comfort.
comfort can also have a huge effect on power output. if you're uncomfortable your pedal efficiency and power output will take a big drop. this would probably negate any aero or weight benefits you get. for the majority of riders the more comfortable system will be the faster.
Road shoes do have the advantage for bike fit: you can use shims underneath the cleat, and even regarding shims and insoles inde the shoe, the lach of support in mtb shoe-pedal systems often means it doesn’t work as well as you hope.
Course condition dictates - Dry - Road, Wet/Risky - MTB. Shoe stiffness now is close to equal depending on how much money you are willing to throw down.
Gravel is more "pedally" than road or XC, because of the extra rolling resistance than pavement. Having proper foot alignment is even more important so if you can get away with it a road cleat will be best.
I prefer to keep the mtb on gravel rather a road shoe/pedal combo on it. However, what I do here is to have the same brand of shoes for both (gravel and road) and sole material, like Sidi Shot 2 shoes mtb and road version. same shoe shape and similar weight. At the end, if you need to walk on a gravel ride or race by any reason, even with the aerodynamic/weightless advantage of road stuff, your walk will turn uncomfortable. my 2 cents. Nice topic by the way Ben. Cheers!
Yeah, I've always been surprised when riders go for road systems even when they know there will be a bit of mud and walking, like at Mid South or Unbound.
Gave up road shoes years ago...before "gravel" even existed. One slip and fall on the tailbone caused by plastic cleats on a stiff (carbon) plastic shoe is enough, even if you're just watching it happen to someone else! Claims of superior-efficiency with road vs MTB are just that...claims. My road bikes have SPD road pedals, MTB/gravel bikes have MTB style.
Lol....exactly gravel is closer to xc than road. Been riding xc for years and would never dream to put my flimsy road pedals on a gravel bike that would get obliterated in one or two hard rides. Shoes also gravel shoes are essentially xc MTB shoes and they are just tougher.
I tried on the Shimano rx6 and rx801 both walking and on the indoor trainer. I went for rx6 because it's more comfortable to walk and looks kinda like a normal shoe
Do you think there is a place in the market for a hybrid shoe? I have often thought of starting with a road shoe for 3 hole type cleats, but with some extra sole protection for walking.
I use SPD pedals because I can walk in them better off the bike... but that being said every single SPD pedal I've used ends up squeaking really annoyingly.
After fell on my butt a few times waking around in road shoes, I switched to XC shoes on the road. I'm mid 50s and as long as they don't hurt my knees, I'd rather stay in the vertical orientation on uneven terrain than shave a minute off a ride.
Since there is no clear definition on what a gravel ride or race really is. And they can take plave on true gravel roads, rough dirt roads, some single track sections, paved , concrete se tupns, and through some technical terrain, the obvious answer is choose the pedal that best fits for the particular terrain/race course you are riding..
Can’t imagine there would be a statistically significant power or aero difference, comfort or performance if muddy conditions exist would be a way bigger time save.
Not a sponsored athlete-although I prefer road shoes , can’t afford to trash my s-works road shows to run through 5 k of flint mud at unbound. If dismounted travel is a possibility, will go with mtb/gravel shoes that are designed with a walking surface. If someone does care to sponsor an over the hill mediocre rider, I take a 48 wide…😅
I'm currently preparing for a 360km gravel race. Mostly smooth gravel with one or two rocky climbs.. One climb might need to get off and push a bit. The difference in weight between my MTB shoe and Road shoe is 150g per foot. I estimated that I'd most likely turn my pedals 90 000-100 000 times during the race..(75-80rpm x 60min x 20hrs) Although 150g doesn't sound like much, repetitively turning an extra 150g per foot for 100 000 times surely would have a substantial impact on fatigue?
Depends on who you ask / or which brand's philosophy. Some is marketing, for sure. Some is just trying to optimize for the weird in-between that is gravel.
Flex or play in the cleats is only relevant for the bikefit, ie potential knee pain etc. There is no measurable loss of power in the chain, if there was where would it go? In heat so negligible it's impossible to measure.
I ride road shoes & pedals on my gravel bike. My gravel bike gets ridden on roads, paved or otherwise. If I do a ride that has a lot of not-road, I'll just ride my mountain bike.
Eggbeaters. Use them for road and gravel. Can actually wear shoes that you don't have to walk around like a penguin. They look cool and are low on weight even the cheap ones.
Totally in agreement: you walk MTB shoes, and you do not road shoes. With an exception with me, I have very complicated feet, and I started with MTB, I stay with MTB, I am not making any advirtisement, and I am not at the age of 50, one or two watts saving measurement system.
Is there actually any difference between an XC MTB shoe and a gravel shoe other than marketing? I know for me, who's not a racer, my knees appreciate the float of MTB SPDs. I'm also surprised you were using an XT for your MTB pedal, an XTR SPD XC pedal is only 157g and a Crank Brothers Eggbeater 11 is only 89g, lighter than even a Dura-Ace road pedal (for their $500 price tag they better be insanely light haha). Speedplays can get even lighter if you have the $$$
I like float, too. I use yellow road cleats for that. I've used Eggbeaters and Speedplays, but they don't last anywheree near as long as Shimano, and XT is a great value. So that's what I use. Also, I just wanted to have a singular point of reference for the shoes and pedals here. What do you use?
Interestingly non-conclusive! I like it! …However, over many decades of riding (I’m old) I've drawn my own conclusions about pedals. ...Unless you’re actually racing at the pointy end of the field (99% of us), not only are MTB pedals better for Gravel riding, they are better for Road riding too! ...Unless you really need to save 100 grams, and you never need to clip out, or walk in your shoes, MTB pedals are better in every way. MTB cleats are also far more durable, easier to use and there are many MTB pedal models available that offer the same or better contact ‘platform’ as road pedals. So-called 'Road pedals' should really only be called 'Race Pedals', because that is all they are actually good for IMO.
The difference between the small platform of a road cleat and a small SPD MTB cleat must play a difference, better ask Josh Poertner of Silca, he seems a better expert to ask then this coach, that came across a bit as not carring about it
Josh is a sharp guy and loves the minutiae. I'd be surprised if he's tested this or could quantify it, but I'll ask. For the record, Jim is not a random coach; under his watch the US has netted more Olympic medals than any other country except the UK. I think where Jim netted out is that such a small difference doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things for 99% of riders. Still - like I said in the video - I would love to find a way to test this!
Channels that beg for subs, like this one, are not usually worth it. Content on good channels speaks for itself whereas shoddy content has to beg people.
I would just boil it down to one question: do you need to walk/run with them or carry your bike? (especially through mud or uphill)
Yes: MTB shoe
No: Road shoe
Whatever shoe you are comfortable with is the best. My road shoes had limited cleat adjustment. Switching to Shimano RX8 gravel shoe was a game changer.
i have knee problems, and the float that Speedplay brings to do the table are a game changer for me. I rarely ride any gravel that would require dismounting, so I stick to the speedplays. I do have two pairs of road shoes. One 'nice' pair I use for road, and one that is a few years old that I'm not afraid to knock around that I use if I'm offroad.
try Time 2 bolt pedals. I ride Speedplay on the road, have knee/float issues and Time mtb/XC pedals are great.
@@mgrant6607, great tip. Which cleat are you using, the 10-degree?
Used to suffer terrible pains only on my left foot when I first started riding long gravel rides. Switched shoes to Shimano MTB shoes and has worked and not had the same issue since. I have the RX8 gravel shoe now and no pain so I stick with that.
Happy Lake MX238 user here, both gravel and MTB variants, for all my road and gravel needs. Have always ridden MTB shoes for comfort, but then I’ve never been in a hurry on a bike. 😎
I recently went back to road shoes. But... a twist! I got a spd adapter so I could use a 2 hole Time ATAC cleat on my 3 hole shimano road shoes. It made a huge difference and has improved my gravel experience. Wish I'd done it sooner!
I love the light weight, low stack, and large pedal platform of the road setup (Dura Ace pedals for me), and the DA pedals have fantastic bearings as well. I rode those at SBT Blue course last year where it is non-technical and dry. But for gravel "adventures", or when mud and wet conditions are a factor, one needs the MTB set up. I like the single sided PD ES 600 SPD pedals as they are lighter and lower profile (more ground clearance) than XTR, and more affordable. For gravel situations I find no need for a double sided MTB pedal, as things are just are not that technical. So I guess my answer is both! Mostly I ride the MTB set up more often, especially when going into the unknown... but I sure love the perceived additional efficiency of the road set up (even if it is really just a placebo effect) when I know I will not need to deal with mud or unclipping.
My non-expert 1cent: The measurable performance benefit is likely to be negligible, but the psychological benefit might be pretty big.
Dylan Johnson advocated using road shoes with a cleat adapter for Crank Bros MTB pedals (Candy/Eggbeater). I’ve tried this since I ride CB; mounting their road adapter cleat on a Giro Empire. Works great and I still have some clearance if I get into sticky dirt that easily clears out on the Eggbeaters.
I am loving my specialized recon sworks lace paired with the Shimano SPD one sided ultegra pedals. Nice platform for a pedal, stiff reliable shoe (no chance of a broken boa) and SPD MTB durability!
Another great video!
Cool. Thanks for sharing.
For me it depends on the event. Wore road shoes at SBT, Gravel Nats, and Rad but was glad to have mountain bike shoes and pedals at Unbound this year.
Those Unbound mud shots brought back some bad memories! 😎
In case of weight: I ride the S-Works Gravel Recon with 2 Boa Dials without the velcor, ii´s literally the road show with a little knobblier sole, but is same in stiffness and fitting and lightweight.
If we were fully paid professional riders with sponsors throwing new kit at us at every race, then yes, ride what you fancy. In the real world, a mountain / gravel shoe is the best all rounder for the N+1 collection. They can be expensive so just buy the one best pair that suits you.
Shimano MTB for gravel and XC. No knee issues and a wider peddle axle is what I need that these peddles affords . My road bike with Shimano road peddles , I have issues with the knee of and on for years. I choose the the wider axle version . Wider a factor for me is what works. That’s the struggle with standard road bike q factors and standard axle width.
Hahahaha! The age old question! I saw this pop up and could NOT wait to watch. Thanks Ben!!!!
I’ve got more detail from Josh Poertner at Silca too. Thanks for prompting this whole thing. 🫡
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney I heard that later on the podcast. I wish that every time I had a perplexing question in life I could submit it to a panel of learned experts for a well-researched, science-based opinion. Does fascat do taxes? ;)
My lake "gravel" shoes are MTB shoes with a lighter sole, based on a road shoe. They have a super stiff carbon sole. So I'm not sure the stiffness argument is still valid. Weight, sure, but only for pro's not for amateurs who don't race :)
Thanks for this deep dive into the differences! Great stuff!
Wearing an old pair of Bont Cervelo Test Team Vapor shoes with Look Keo pedals 99.9% of the time as my current bike is my Gravel and Road bike. I do have a pair of Crankbrother Candy with some Shimano M162 shoes for when it's muddy or a CX race. I prefer the road shoes and pedals for most of my gravel rides.
Practicality first followed closely by fit are my thoughts on this.
To each their own. I would venture to say that unless there is a significant difference in weight, like 1 to 2 lbs., go with what one prefers. I hunt and compete in prs/nrl matches. Would I be packing a 21 lb rifle around hunting, absolutely not but when in the comp world with a heavier bullet, aka, more kick, I definitely want something that reduces recoil. Nrl hunting division there are two weight categories because, yes, who wants to be packing the extra weight. On a bike, similar aspects apply. Lighter bike and equipment and yet enough flexibility to sustain on and off applications to which one will encounter. Great content Ben.
I wear the lightest flat-pedal shoe with crank-brothers pedals those with the pins. And for me it works great! One reason is that I often need to walk several hundreds of meters in them, sometimes a km. Also, while riding, I can adjust and peddle more with the tip or more with the middle of the shoe, more flexible. And very important: in cities you need to clip-in and clip-out superfast and 100% reliable. No I don't do racing.
Mountain bike shoes, I’m not fast enough for those little things to matter. It’s all about comfort. To each their own!!!
I use the same shoes (RX8 in the summer) on all my bikes (MTB, Road and Gravel) to keep it simple.
Thanks mate 🤙. Using shimano gravel rx8. But with lake carbon inner soles arch support. Fill the gap of stiffness and get to walk in the mud at Unbound 🤬🤯
I once said lace cycling shoes were too cool for me, not to mention impossible to tighten/loosen on the fly. However I was able to nab a pair of Addidas gravel shoes ($200 @REI, $54 sale @Addidas!) w/laces and built-in ankle gators and have not looked back! 🙏💕🚴
I prefer road shoes when I know I won't have to get off my bike during the race. My S-Works Vent road shoes are lighter, better ventilated, and I prefer the cleat engagement to a mtb pedal.
I am 56 years of age.
I use my Speedplay Frogs still.
On everything;
gravel and road. Pair the Frogs up with gravel / explore shoes with BOA fasteners.
Flat pedals on my mountain bike though.
There is also the single-sided SPD like the Shimano PD-ES600. This gives you a lighter pedal with better cornering clearance for MTB shoes. But it's all about walking and how normal you want that walking to be.
Yes nice combo with RX-8. Did a test with road shoe setup again but no
difference other than less practical. (safer walking, less wear with spd)
Agree. I use Shimano PD A520 pedals with Rx8 shoes for gravel and road riding. IMO the best of both worlds
I wear my Shimano RX8s for everything… road, gravel and mtb rides and races. Perfect all around shoe for me.
I've done the same since like 10 years ago, Shimano road-style SPD MTB cleats, with SPD pedals on all of my bikes...
Thanks, Ben, for looking at these shoe-and-cleat combos but what about flats, especially for riders who are out for a good 100-mile performance yet prefer the freedom of not being attached to the bike in case of a fall or simply to easily put out a foot in a corner. I commute on flats and I'd likely ride gravel events on flats. For me, flats just have an edge in safety and at 64, I don't want to fall or slide out any more than necessary to win a trophy in the over-60 class. 😀
you don't need flats to be able to easily put a foot out. get some proper pedals like XTR or similar clipless and learn how to get into and out of them quickly and smoothly. they were designed for doing just that.
Pretty easy to reduce the spring tension on your pedals. I'd rather have the stability that comes from being clipped in
My dad is all about his flats and tennis shoes. Whatever works for you!
@@veganpotterthevegan Thanks for your reply and I have clipless for fondos and such, just that on dirt I prefer not to go down with the ship and spills and pile-ups can leave zero time for reaction and we even see that in video coverage of top riders on gravel.
@@seanmccuen6970No argument and I was a total toe-clip guy from the moment I got a Rixie road bike for commuting to high school in Frankfurt, West Germany in '75 at age 15, later even adding wood-soled racing shoes with a cleat that fit onto the pedal before you pulled the strap tight. And yet on dirt, BMX and mountain bikes, I always rode regular pedals or flats as they're now called.
Dylan Johnson advocated using road shoes with a cleat adapter for Crank. Bros MTB pedals (Candy/Eggbeater. I’ve tried this since I ride CB; mounting their cross adapter cleat on a Giro Empire. Works great and I still have some clearance if I get into sticky dirt that easily clears out on the Eggbeaters.
I use Sidi mountain bike shoes and the uppers and soles with the exception of lugs are the same between mountain and road shoes. Since the I stopped road racing in 1992 I’ve been riding mountain bike shoes. I like a walkable shoe. I raced BMX for 11 years until 2018 using the same Shimano mountain bike pedals. What I found with the force of coming out of a BMX gate with worn cleats the shoe will come out of the pedal. I changed my cleats three times a year. Coming out of the pedal out of the gate can end up catastrophic!
BMX has crazy high torque, eh?
I often suffer of "hot foot" so knit and laces (DMT GK1 for gravel and DMT KRSL for road) have been a problem solver for me. Vented and a little giving with stiff soles.
I am mostly a roadie that wears gravel shoes and SPD but I just bought some power meter pedals and some road bike shoes. We shall see!!!
Interesting to see in the comments what works for each person. For years I rode a trusty pair of M737s on my MTB and Dura Ace SPD (not SL) so not fussed about the smaller cleat and platform. MTB shoes worked for CX and so for me, by extension gravel too. Last year I tried a pair of Shimano RX8s and really was surprised how much I could tell a lightness difference and how much I liked them. So now I'm a believer in a more lightly built road shoe with a somewhat lugged sole.
Yeah, I love the variety. Thanks for sharing your experience.
XTR pedals for everything: road, gravel, and MTB
Being able to unclip/clip back in quicker with MTB cleats/pedals is very appreciated if you have some tech stuff to ride and don't have good MTB skills.
Much prefer mountain bike shoes. Shimano RX8s with XTR pedals. They have been reliable, easy to service and relatively lightweight. Walking is much easier when you do have to hike-a-bike and easy to clip in and out of. I did start with ultegra and look pedals for a while but changed over because of convenience and comfort.
comfort can also have a huge effect on power output. if you're uncomfortable your pedal efficiency and power output will take a big drop. this would probably negate any aero or weight benefits you get. for the majority of riders the more comfortable system will be the faster.
Road shoes do have the advantage for bike fit: you can use shims underneath the cleat, and even regarding shims and insoles inde the shoe, the lach of support in mtb shoe-pedal systems often means it doesn’t work as well as you hope.
What Taylor said: Mountainbike, because that's all I know 🤷♂
Course condition dictates - Dry - Road, Wet/Risky - MTB. Shoe stiffness now is close to equal depending on how much money you are willing to throw down.
Gravel is more "pedally" than road or XC, because of the extra rolling resistance than pavement. Having proper foot alignment is even more important so if you can get away with it a road cleat will be best.
Totally depends on how technical it is and if I'll have to walk
I prefer mtb spd, I’m clumsy- I got some Fizik Terra Atlas shoes, and Xpedo CXR pedals.
I prefer to keep the mtb on gravel rather a road shoe/pedal combo on it. However, what I do here is to have the same brand of shoes for both (gravel and road) and sole material, like Sidi Shot 2 shoes mtb and road version. same shoe shape and similar weight. At the end, if you need to walk on a gravel ride or race by any reason, even with the aerodynamic/weightless advantage of road stuff, your walk will turn uncomfortable. my 2 cents. Nice topic by the way Ben. Cheers!
Yeah, I've always been surprised when riders go for road systems even when they know there will be a bit of mud and walking, like at Mid South or Unbound.
Gave up road shoes years ago...before "gravel" even existed. One slip and fall on the tailbone caused by plastic cleats on a stiff (carbon) plastic shoe is enough, even if you're just watching it happen to someone else! Claims of superior-efficiency with road vs MTB are just that...claims. My road bikes have SPD road pedals, MTB/gravel bikes have MTB style.
Lol....exactly gravel is closer to xc than road. Been riding xc for years and would never dream to put my flimsy road pedals on a gravel bike that would get obliterated in one or two hard rides.
Shoes also gravel shoes are essentially xc MTB shoes and they are just tougher.
Thanks!
Good insight
If you end up having to do a fair amount of trudging on foot, that will wear your road cleats ragged. SPD is the system of choice for durability.
Road shoe and pedal system. Full stop. I don't walk my bike, I ride my bike.
My gravel bike is my CX bike. MTB pedals, no brainer for me.
I tried on the Shimano rx6 and rx801 both walking and on the indoor trainer. I went for rx6 because it's more comfortable to walk and looks kinda like a normal shoe
I don’t even own a road shoe anymore. Something with a walkable sole is far more practical for me.
Do you think there is a place in the market for a hybrid shoe? I have often thought of starting with a road shoe for 3 hole type cleats, but with some extra sole protection for walking.
If I'm not getting off my bike; road shoes/pedals 100% of the time!
And I know you are not getting off your bike until the finish. Well maybe one quick drink stop. 😁
love my RX8R's! Wish I could use RX8 for road (speedplay)
I use SPD pedals because I can walk in them better off the bike... but that being said every single SPD pedal I've used ends up squeaking really annoyingly.
Speedplay Frogs. The greatest pedal ever created.
The answer is SPD, because I don't own any road pedals nor shoes.
Most bikers worry about their weight on gear but not their waste line.
Dude.. that dumb shit is commented on literally every bike video ever.. are you a robot
Most worry about their weight but don't have self control. So long as you have money, it's easy to buy light gear
Lots of bikers are already too skinny to lose any more healthy weight so weight on gear is the other option
@@MrMars121 yeah maybe where you’re at. I see plenty of questionable people riding in spandex here. Big’ol bodies on tiny bike.
Nope, it's both. Some of us can actually have 2 thoughts in our brain at the same time 😂
Mountain for me. Facilitates making those hikes easier.
After fell on my butt a few times waking around in road shoes, I switched to XC shoes on the road. I'm mid 50s and as long as they don't hurt my knees, I'd rather stay in the vertical orientation on uneven terrain than shave a minute off a ride.
SPD-SL for everything but MTB or CX. I just don’t walk enough during gravel or road to deal with lackluster feel (to me) of SPDs.
Since there is no clear definition on what a gravel ride or race really is. And they can take plave on true gravel roads, rough dirt roads, some single track sections, paved , concrete se tupns, and through some technical terrain, the obvious answer is choose the pedal that best fits for the particular terrain/race course you are riding..
Can’t imagine there would be a statistically significant power or aero difference, comfort or performance if muddy conditions exist would be a way bigger time save.
Not a sponsored athlete-although I prefer road shoes , can’t afford to trash my s-works road shows to run through 5 k of flint mud at unbound. If dismounted travel is a possibility, will go with mtb/gravel shoes that are designed with a walking surface.
If someone does care to sponsor an over the hill mediocre rider, I take a 48 wide…😅
I'm currently preparing for a 360km gravel race. Mostly smooth gravel with one or two rocky climbs.. One climb might need to get off and push a bit. The difference in weight between my MTB shoe and Road shoe is 150g per foot. I estimated that I'd most likely turn my pedals 90 000-100 000 times during the race..(75-80rpm x 60min x 20hrs) Although 150g doesn't sound like much, repetitively turning an extra 150g per foot for 100 000 times surely would have a substantial impact on fatigue?
I feel more connected to my bike when riding with Looks vs SPD's. The SPD's feel like I am on a pin. I just wish Look's where as easy to clip into!
Great video as always. I'm sticking with my XC shoes. Can someone explain me what is the difference between gravel shoe & xc shoe?
Color! Earth tones = gravel.
Depends on who you ask / or which brand's philosophy. Some is marketing, for sure. Some is just trying to optimize for the weird in-between that is gravel.
Flex or play in the cleats is only relevant for the bikefit, ie potential knee pain etc. There is no measurable loss of power in the chain, if there was where would it go? In heat so negligible it's impossible to measure.
I remember that disk! NM roads!
Yeah, man! Still has the OG Tufo tubular on there.
you may need to walk = mtb. as long as they’re not shimano spd. better options: crank bros, time, look.
I like flipflops
You never tried/weighed eggbeater 11. Lighter than road pedals and with insane clearance. What is better than that!
Greetings
Just did the math and I would save about 1/2 pound b y switching from a Mt setup to a road setup. That seems worth it.
How far could you walk with a road setup?
not with gravel RX-8 - PD-ES600 combo
I ride road shoes & pedals on my gravel bike. My gravel bike gets ridden on roads, paved or otherwise. If I do a ride that has a lot of not-road, I'll just ride my mountain bike.
Soon we'll realize that a stiff shoe is like a 23mm tire at 110psi, increased compliance is likely faster and does not impair power transfer
I love to see a study on that.
Eggbeaters. Use them for road and gravel. Can actually wear shoes that you don't have to walk around like a penguin. They look cool and are low on weight even the cheap ones.
Totally in agreement: you walk MTB shoes, and you do not road shoes. With an exception with me, I have very complicated feet, and I started with MTB, I stay with MTB, I am not making any advirtisement, and I am not at the age of 50, one or two watts saving measurement system.
Is there actually any difference between an XC MTB shoe and a gravel shoe other than marketing? I know for me, who's not a racer, my knees appreciate the float of MTB SPDs. I'm also surprised you were using an XT for your MTB pedal, an XTR SPD XC pedal is only 157g and a Crank Brothers Eggbeater 11 is only 89g, lighter than even a Dura-Ace road pedal (for their $500 price tag they better be insanely light haha). Speedplays can get even lighter if you have the $$$
I like float, too. I use yellow road cleats for that. I've used Eggbeaters and Speedplays, but they don't last anywheree near as long as Shimano, and XT is a great value. So that's what I use. Also, I just wanted to have a singular point of reference for the shoes and pedals here. What do you use?
garmin xc200 vs spd-sl real time data could give more info, due to their cycle dynamics data
The real question is WWBHDD?
Interestingly non-conclusive! I like it! …However, over many decades of riding (I’m old) I've drawn my own conclusions about pedals.
...Unless you’re actually racing at the pointy end of the field (99% of us), not only are MTB pedals better for Gravel riding, they are better for Road riding too! ...Unless you really need to save 100 grams, and you never need to clip out, or walk in your shoes, MTB pedals are better in every way. MTB cleats are also far more durable, easier to use and there are many MTB pedal models available that offer the same or better contact ‘platform’ as road pedals. So-called 'Road pedals' should really only be called 'Race Pedals', because that is all they are actually good for IMO.
You're certainly not the only experienced rider to come to this conclusion. I know a few retired road pros who are on MTB shoes all the time.
Maybe we need a new gravel specific pedal system.
Most “Cat5 pro’s” don’t need to worry about this.
They could cover the cost of the investment with the 25 dollar purses they might win :)
are you talking about the ones that ride $13,000 S-works that go to the landfill after the 1st crit of the season?
I wish they made a 3 screw shoes with cleats. I have a hard time getting the right fit with Mountain shoes
You don't need mountain shoes. Multiple 3hole options for SPDs and Crank Brothers etc
So no sandals and flats here then....
The difference between the small platform of a road cleat and a small SPD MTB cleat must play a difference, better ask Josh Poertner of Silca, he seems a better expert to ask then this coach, that came across a bit as not carring about it
Josh is a sharp guy and loves the minutiae. I'd be surprised if he's tested this or could quantify it, but I'll ask. For the record, Jim is not a random coach; under his watch the US has netted more Olympic medals than any other country except the UK. I think where Jim netted out is that such a small difference doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things for 99% of riders. Still - like I said in the video - I would love to find a way to test this!
You forgot the third option, flats.
Debate this: Wahoo Speedplay für MTB Shoes? When?!
I wanna work on my waist to quad ratio
Lol waiting for aero shoe with boa dial in the back 😂
Specialized made a tri shoe with a BOA in the back, which folded down like a pickup tailgate.
you really cant copy what gravel world champion's set up, he literally ride a rode bike with a gravel tyre.
Mtb. 100%
I'll stick to flats, I don't race.
I'm sorry, I'll wear whatever the fuck is cheapest and available. #notsponsored #notpoor
Channels that beg for subs, like this one, are not usually worth it. Content on good channels speaks for itself whereas shoddy content has to beg people.
Just fit the road pedals and stay on the road gravel is sh#t