The craziest moment that I experienced in all of StarCraft was when I was up against a friend who had some savant-like traits. Our fleets of capital ships were battling, and I heard the nuclear launch detected warning. I figured he was gonna nuke one of my bases, but I doubted there was anything I could do about it so I focused on the fight. I retreated my battlecruisers to regroup… and the nuke landed right on them, destroying every battle cruiser that had suffered any damage in the fight. My friend predicted *exactly* when and where I would retreat, and targeted his nuke at an empty area of the map, and it landed dead center on my fleet.
The game lasted almost 90 min, with an extremely drawn out and tense endgame where neither of us could build, my 3 surviving cruisers were sneaking around, sniping with Yamato gun, trying to avoid his ghosts. After painfully prolonged tension, he managed to lock down all 3 cruisers and slowly poke them to death. Considering the earlier miracle nuke, I figure he deserved it
My craziest moment was a SC2 game were I didn't win a single exchange, but won the match. Muta-Ling and expand for the win. I just kept expanding every engagement. He'd take a base out and I'd double expand.
you can see it barely in SC1 in Inaugeration and in Victory. Behemoth class battlecruisers are so lightly armed because the central spine is actually a hangar designed to carry a Command Center, Barracks, Factory, and Starport. they have 8 hangars on the rear of the Hammerhead where they launch Vikings, Banshees, Wraith C (Tac Fighter) and Wraith Ds (Starport unit), Koprulu Valkyries (UED Valkyries are similar size to Nova's Gryphon or the Liberator), Griffons, and every variation of Dropship, and the rear wings have a hangar each. Even SC2 Realscale doesnt implement battlecruisers accurately according to canon, because they would literally be flying terran bases that can individually fight and win against a Protoss Mothership while supporting the terran offensive beneath. Basically, the 500 crew upto 6000 is fairly reasonable when you understand that. 500 are the crew expressly operating the ship itsself, the remaining 5500 are the crew of the task force that the Terran Battlecruiser is servicing Overwatch for.
in SC 1 the Gantrithor solo-ed 3 battlecruisers, so I assume normal Carriers are equals to BCs, and Motherships are like twice the size of Carriers so although your assessment is wrong, BCs are still formidable flying fortresses
@@ham_the_spam4423 gantrithor is classified as a super carrier, which are heavily armed (to the point of overwhelming many battlecruisers) compared to the standard carriers who only use interceptors both types have an energy beam weapon used to glass planets, but aside from a fanmade video and chlorarion in sc2 coop fenix commander it did not seem to be used for combat
@F14thunderhawk So when in SC1 and Broodwar the Protos were represented as an alien race 5x more powerfull then your basic terran forces that was just a Psi-Op? I know the books but the books were just there to fill in the gaps to make sense on how things worked in the universe. Battlecruisers are powerfull but not mothership scale powerfull simply due to mothership shielding. They can one hit a protos carrier but can not do that solo as they need a fighter screen to keep off the interceptors. They are beefy ships for sure but not the behemoths portrayed in the books. This is the failure of the same I.P. starcraft mirrors namely warhammer 40k where in the books units, vehicles and heroes are presented as godlike units but the minute you roll some dice they go away easier then an Imperial guard unit with high morale.
@@vonshroom2068surprisingly enough, the Protoss Empire could field so many Carriers and Scouts and Arbiters and it could move them anywhere at a whim (thanks to Arbiters) that _the Protoss became a "by the numbers" faction_ Tassadar's "expeditonary fleet" could stand against Terran Dominion, Zerg and the Confederacy at the same time despite being armed with mostly Scouts and not a myriad of Carriers like the Empire proper And then the Zerg hit "Mr. President, the second Overmind has hit the surface of Aiur!" And they never could truly reach the extent of their might until LotV Epilogue I guess The Golden Armada is _nothing_ compared to the Ara, Akilae, Furinax and Sargas tribes' boys
Regarding the rotational capacity of the ship: Scale in Starcraft was obviously non-existent. So, the icon for the Battle Cruiser and other ships are, to me, conceptually their orbital footprint. Most likely they were in high orbit using station-keeping drives/thrusters, and were pointed toward the planet more often than not. And, that's why they moved so slow when changing position. They were reorienting their orbit. It's kinda like how in Super Robot Wars 30 you have half-kilometer and 2-kilometer ships each taking up the same amount of space on a highly detailed map as each individual robot sprite. So, you have to wonder how representative the turn lengths and space actually is. For someone like me who's used to the grit and granularity of BattleTech, for all its foibles, it hurts the mind and I HAVE to come up with something to help my immersion.
"Battlecruiser operational." That's a line that is stuck in my head for decades. I very well wager my love for massive space ships blasting poor creatures on the ground with massive guns is derived from little me playing Starcraft.
Gameplay is gameplay. A "Realistic" SC battlecruiser is really more of a battleship that very much has guns pointed in every direction (As seen in SC2 cinematics. Remember, the Hyperion was an old one, from the time of SC1) and its a thing that can deal with a small army or squadron of enemy flyers on its own.
The Hyperion is basically its own class with how thoroughly its been modified, it has its own ATA and ATS laser batteries retrofitted and overclocked to hell to fire at a blistering rate. The crew literally has 2 of some of the greatest mechanical minds in the sector, Kachinsky and Swann.
this is also confirmed by the cutscene of Brood War, where the UED Aleksender is just looming over the battlefield with spotlights and guns pointing every which way
Prior to the "zerg rush" the term "tank rush" was used in earlier games such as Command & Counqer and Read Alert. The difference is that tanks are more more expensive but take more punishment. The zerglings are dirt cheap and pretty harmless by themselves.
Zerglings are anything but harmless. You really have to squish them when you have the chance because they will eat you in seconds if given the position to do so.
Whats funny is a single unupgraded zergling can decimate a single unupgraded marine if they were to attack at the same time. It's range and the concentration of fire that helps rines. However, the chances of ever seeing this... Basically the rine would have to stand under a ramp or you'd have to cloud up until 1 space right before the marine.
Zerglings have the uncontested highest DPS in both StarCraft games, they are far from harmless, but they are melee so you can limit their ability to cause harm.
I remember someone superimposed a human figure onto a space marine unit. Turns out, you would have to sever all the limbs at their joints so that the human would fit correctly in the suit.
The suiting-up intro for Starcraft 2 solves this by showing how the limbs of the powered armor suit are basically wire-controlled, and the Marine's actual arms and legs aren't 1-to-1 in the same places the ones on the suit are.
This tends to be an issue with fictional power armor in general, since usually it's designed for an imposing look rather than for realism. Fallout power armor basically does the same thing: In Fallout 4 the character model has to be stretched out to fit the proportions. Though, the StarCraft marine armor is probably one of the more extreme examples.
Imma be real, considering how shtty these suits are, and the fact viking transformation will literally rips the pilot’s limps off. I see that happenening lmao. But yea more likely is that like the other person said it’s controlled by wires
@@RelativelyBestI've never considered this to be a big enough issue to care about. In SC2 they do have slim Marine armor as a skin that's more of a Spartan II MJOLNIR complete with a separate and full helmet. To me most "power armor" is more of a mini mech than anything else. Typically when the scale becomes too big I just imagine they're mostly scrunched up in the torso, or have their arms/legs down to the elbows/knees of the suit. The hands and fingers are always just way too big to really justify ever actually wearing one that's properly fitted to a human. I can't imagine they'd have a lot of sensitivity or be particularly good at subtle movements. Plus when you start getting into power assisted movements you're going to run into the issue of the human body, especially the joints, being able to keep up with those forced movements, like how the Spartans literally needed bio engineering to use their suits because their bodies wouldn't otherwise withstand the forces and speeds they'd be subjected to. So a Spartan outside the suit is already the pinnacle of strength, then you add the suit and it's even more so. Of course this was somewhat stupidly mitigated in Halo 4 with the Spartan 4s so they could ma's produce them, as the armor did most of the heavy lifting, but they were an inferior product and idea anyway.
there are still large gaming centers dedicated to entirely Brood War, IIRC Brood War's competitive scene is both larger and more popular than SC2 scene in South Korea. also i do not miss dialup brood war. infact brood war was the reason my dad switched from dialup to DSL, after he got tired of having two phone lines.
Zerg didn't rip off Tyranids, Tyranids ripped off Zerg, they were completely redesigned to look like the Zerg in 3rd edition. Originally they were tool-using humanoids with incredibly stupid noses.
The irony is that even still the Tyranids are unable to beat a Zerg in both a One-V-One, and at the Macro scale. This is because the Zerg are inherently unstable in their genetics meaning that if a Nid ate a zerg they would at best cease to exist, and at worse become a Zerg.
There's something wonderful about the terran battlecruiser. It has the length and the width to make you feel that this is a big unit, but the wings and the giant engines give enough "aerodynamic" vibe to make it feel active in comparison to things like Borg ships or death star
Those "laser cannons" on the side of the Behemoth class Battlecruiser arn't laser cannons at all, but it is its Warp Drive same as Minotaur class (seen in Starcraft 2) battlecruiser ATS/ATA bateries are mounted on its head and main hull
Agreed! I was like huh no that isn't right. I actually prefer the SCII Battlecruiser simply because you can see the laser battery turrets on the sprite for the BC.
I mean...they are both. The back end is the warp drive, the front end is their main batteries meant for taking on other capital ships. They did have other weapon emplacements for other targets, but the limits of SC1 meant that only the main guns were ever shown. The limits of SC1 were also why we never got to see the OG Protoss Carrier variant that had in-built continental-cracking superlaser meant to purge Zerg taking refuge from within the crust of a planet.
going to comment early: Blizzcast #3 is somewhere on youtube and has Chris Metzen, Mike Morheim, and Samwise Didier discussing the creation of Starcraft 1. It originated from a drunk christmas party at Mike's house with Chris pitching "Space Cowboys vs Alien Vampires", which actually is where the majority of what the protoss are survived to the release as even if ingame they dont directly show that since we never have regular civvys talking. the Zerg are taken from later watching the movie of Starship Troopers, and the entire project was then redrawn by Sam. 4 years later, Games Workshop stole the design of the zerg for the Tyrannid Redesign for WH40k 3rd edition.
TBF, a solid chunk of their shared design elements were from Alien/Aliens to begin with, so a bit of a case of "how dare you kidnap what I've rightfully stolen".
Stealing something has been a norm for sci-fi and space operas since they were born Creative inspiration usually has many, many sources gee, guess Blizzard watched a lot of anime during the development of SC1 oh and Tau are inspired by Protoss...among other things (spanning all the way back to Vulcans and beyond)
The only time I remember seeing one of any class in a cutscene where there was a clear sense of scale was the Heart of The Swarm intro where it appeared to be at least a kilometer long. But that was a dream sequence so who knows.
To be fair, Kerrigan would've known how big those things are, and the other units seemed to scale. So even factoring dream logic, it should be alright.
Yeah it's was a hefty son of a gun. Scary part after that is "how freakishly large is that Leviathan Kerrigan is running around in if it dwarfs even those?"
There are certain classes of battlecryiser that are larger. I'm sure it was the same class as the Hyperion, which used to be Mengk's command ship. It was one for the Confederacy before that.
I tried looking this up and apparently nobody agrees on how big these ships are supposed to be. The first thing Google tells you is that a Terran battlecruiser might be over nine kilometers long, which is absurd, but after that the top answer is a mere 960 meters which seems more reasonable and appears to be widely accepted. _But then_ I found out that in one of the SC2 cutscenes the Bucephalus is specified to be just 560 meters long, and the Bucephalus is supposed to be much larger than a standard battlecruiser. Same source stated it to be 82.4 meters wide (which makes no sense given the proportions of the ship) and having a crew compliment of 8239. And that's _from the actual game._ I have no idea what to make of any of this.
While i will give you the fact that command and conquer has had a massive following, it is not considered the national pastime of an entire nation. This game made growing up in the 90s alot easier
I heard the intro with the Warhammer 40k comparison and immediately checked the comments for Subsourian raging against how that myth never dies. Starcraft was never based on Warhammer 40k. The only license that they even thought to pursue early in development was actually Star Wars, which still has some faint influence on things like the design of the Ion Cannon at the end of Rebel Yell. There was some inspiration of course, but it was more likely that both warhammer 40k and starcraft were drawing from the same science fiction well, and in some cases the Warhammer 40k codices actually came out _after_ Starcraft, meaning the inspiration likely went the other way.
GW gets in issues with tolkien, tries to trademark 'spacemarine' despite the usage of the word predating the company and when it fails renames literally everything cause you cant trademark Imperial Guard,,, but Astra Militarum,,, sure.,.. meanwhile their big success in computer gaming came from changing policy to 'you go for it kids' letting literally anyone do a licensed product which sure has created drek, but its also given us great titles
Yeah they really need to learn loosen the death grip on the IP since its already caused way more harm than good. Dawn of war 1 and 2 and their expansions were fantastic, Space Marine 1 was awesome (I heard 2 is good, sadly I have nothing that could run it), Battlefleet Gothic was fun even if my computer tried to perform Seppeku every time more than 5 ships were on screen.
If only Star wars would learn a thing from them... The people who made "empire at war" do want to make a sequel sometime... It's been 19 years... They did a damn good job the first time...
@@Szgerle as far as actual gameplay goes, everyone pretty much universally agrees SC2 has much better controls and a much better game engine. As far as story goes, everyone also universally agrees that SC2 was dogshit. I think the biggest reason for SC OG’s popularity in Korea is due to the fact it came first and people started liking it. Once they latched on, it was difficult to change the “national sport”
I love how despite being one of the oldest ships around (and a Behemoth at that!) The Hyperion has gone toe to toe with Minotaurs and even GORGON-class Battlecruisers and came out of the slugging match alive
As someone who loves to delve into little details such as a Battlecruisers rankings, a lot of them aren't mentioned or at least mentioned to scale, so I think the Hyperion is just that. "Hyperion-class." Ps. Supposedly, the Hyperion wiki states it has a Minotaur-class. Even then it's also unsure of what the actual class is. (Which peeves me. -_- Much like the size of each class of Battlecruiser. For those who to want to know so they can build such ships in other games, if those games have/has sized measurements to build with.)
@@StarHorderyes But some designs have integral flaws that can't be ironed out Like Leviathan BCs being very vulnerable to boardings due to the close distance between the bridge and the docking ports Or Behemoth BCs being too expensive and too weak-armed on their own to stand a single chance against Zerg Or Gorgons being extremely vulnerable to Scourge and overall not having much in terms of ATA capabilities I believe that the Hyperion is in its own weight group Just like the Alexander Bucephalus is _nothing_ compared to what the boys built during the Confederate days ('tis but a bigger BC lmao) Norad II is probably only the flagship of Duke because Mengsk already hijacked Hyperion and drove it off into the sunset
@@The-jy3yqthe Hyperion used to be mengsk's ship till Raynor stole it, it would probably still be in mengsk's service if the kerrigan betrayal didn't happen.
It's a good thing Blizzard changed the Battlecruiser from spinning on a dime to firing in all directions so the Battlecruiser crews stopped getting whiplash every time ot encountered more than one enemy.
Reminds me of how the AI on attack move would target the frakkin interceptors while ignoring the carriers until you focused them down. I'd sometimes watch in amusement as my BCs would do that dime spinning thing trying to swat down those annoying gnats. Then I'd get bored and Yamato the carrier to soften it up for focus fire.
@AmandaFessler Carbot did an amazing animated rendition of it in Starcrafts Season 4 when the Battlecruiser goes up against the Carrier. We even get to see the inside of the bridge as it's happening.
@ I can imagine what that looks like. Really should finish Starcrafts. I zoned out a little bit after it shifted to Brood War, and the hilarious Dragoon/Goliath ramp pathing, because stuff was happening IRL. Thanks for letting me know! :)
@AmandaFessler Starcrafts really ramps from Season 5 onwards. I highly recommend you go back and finish the series, it's that amazing. And that reminds me, I gotta find time to binge the whole series with how enjoyable it all is.
My first guess was Star Ocean as to the topic since that series also hasn't been mentioned by SCS A battery is a turret that can't move, a cannon is a weapon without a reload assembly.
on ship size, you check out EC henry's video on how much crew the enterprise D can hold. apparently you can squeeze a ton of humies into a small space (see actual humie nuclear carriers).
Don’t know if you know this but the Space Marine standard issue Rifle fires an 8mm Spike at a minimum speed of Mach 5. That’s well over at minimum over 100 times the amount of energy imparted by the standard 5.56 Round. The Siege Tank shoots a round made up of a small nuclear bomb and a ton of tungsten. And so what happen is is that the Tank shoots the round and it then flies to its intended location and then the round explodes in the required area and it sprays everything around the blast zone with Molten Tungsten.
Most influential RTS? That's not how you spell "Command & Conquer." Edit: Also worth noting that the Zerg don't consume planets like the Tyranids do - infested worlds remain living worlds, just Zergified, while Tyranids literally eat planets down to the mantle if not further.
I see you, I disagree, believing Starcraft has VERY OBVIOUSLY in my eyes gone on to do far more than C&C languishing in the annals of history, but I want you to know I see you.
Look up Starcraft 2 Real Scale, preferably Giant Grant Game's playthrough. You wanna see how big a BC is? After a point, the mod maker STILL had to scale down battle cruisers (and other capital ships).
The reasons why the baseless rumor about StarCraft and WH40K connections was because Warcraft was confirmed to be originally developed as a Warhammer Fantasy strategy game. People conflate that with StarCraft's history .
So, apparantly, before sc came out, the tyranids and the eldar were quite different. After sc1 came out, the tyrannids started to resemble the zerg, and the eldar suddenly got a whole bunch of gold incorporated into their design.
The video "battlecruiser exe" is fun little montage of the unit in the second game. Also, if you want to talk about size abstraction, the biggest example is the science vessel. The cutscene "Battle of the Amerigo" is about blowing one up.
And if anyone wants to feel like their BC is proper killy there are "real scale" mods for SC2 that make capital ships half the size of the map. It's really fun to play through the campaign actually.
what was mind blowing to me was putting the following facts together: The marine fires a hypersonic round from the gauss rifle, it is 8mm but in a 50cal style casing, there is a depleted uranium round. Making the math by estimating the mass (volume x density) x velocity (hypersonic), the ffreaking rifle hits as hard as a 25mm autocannon. Your average soldiers has the firepower of a freaking IFV of our reality... No wonder Goliaths and tanks can be destroyed, as well as air units edit: battlecruiser is an naval term for a cruiser that is faster than a standard cruiser but has less armor, which could imply there was something slower than the BC XD
Practically speaking, the first example of a round similar to that was the Soviet 14,5mm anti-tank round for infantry anti-tank rifles It's comparatively small, much smaller than the 20mms and 25mms of the era yet it _outperforms them_ By a *mile* The combination of the tungsten core of the bullet, the massive amount of propellant, the velocity to mass ratio and the general aerodynamics of the bullet...it's practically a Gauss rifle round prototype it is fired from a gun that is longer than most people and is so sturdy that you could possibly use it as a cavalry lance CMC suits used by Marines are not only armor and space suits, but purpose-built infantry-sized platforms that can not only handle the recoil of their Gauss rifle, but walk or run _while shooting it_ An anti-tank rifle.
I used to use flying barracks to misdirect and distract the enemy while I was scouting for a rush. I would also land it to interrupt enemy pathing and if I was able to float it across the board without being seen, I would build an army behind ya. If you built a nuke silo you could also move your command center and make another one right next to it. You can get 4 or 5 built near each other and just move the command center from one to the other as needed.
Tell me that you NEVER SAW THE CUTSCENES, Without telling me you never saw the Cutscenes...... It shows the Battlecruiser to scale in the FMV. Its massive. the size of a small SC1 Map.
@@SacredCowShipyards hard to say since Starcraft 1 has poor scaling but, several hundreds to low thousands. IIRC some external materials give the Battlecruiser a length of ~1km.
StarCraft is a perfect example of the in-game lore and game's mechanics and depictions being somewhat massively disjointed - fluff and crunch simply do not align. Now... Here's a thing - this was very common in early RTS games to have the scale completely out of whack because of various technical limitations and sometimes overly ambitious game designs. Hence we have battlecruisers that look like they could fit maybe 2 marines; Vulture Jetbikes with an ant-sized riders; Dozen of common grunt marines shooting down a massive space battlecruiser with thousands of people on board. Look at how hilariously huge SCV - your Terran worker unit is supposed to be. In game it is roughly as tiny as a marine. In lore - that glass panel - there is an entire human behind it, that's a full cockpit, not just a faceplate. A lot of this scale is "conventional" so to speak. This one tiny marine may represent a single dude, a whole squad or a battalion for all we know, when scale is so terribly off. Now the funny thing is... You'd expect that as technology progressed, strategy games would get the scale better over time... But no. There are only few strategies I can name that got the scale right and most still practice the "tanks barely bigger than your common footslogger" scaling. For some reason it infuriates me to no end.
you do realize technology isn't the only reason for this right? Game developers prefer making games that are fun and will sell a lot. The kind of strategies you're describing are called hardcore war simulators and I'm pretty sure they will always be very niche. Don't get me wrong, I would like a super realistic strategy game but simpler games that don't sweat all these details will always be prevalent. Simpler is better for most people
@@varvariiin Ah yes... the hardcore war simulators like... Company of Heroes that got the scaling of units mostly right... Or even Dawn of War 2. Both of those are among the most popular RTS franchises besides StarCraft and Age of Empires, but what do I know... They are not niche as far as RTS goes. I'm not talking about realism as a whole - that is another can of worms, talking about scale. A proper scale adds to the fun in all cases I'd argue - makes battles look more epic, units more meaningful. Spectacle is one of the key elements that make an RTS fun... And maybe I'm in a minority here, but... When I see a "clown car" transport units or massive battle tank barely bigger than 2 infantry grunts, it kind of ruins it for me a bit.
@@varvariiin You're right that technology isn't the only reason, but game devs by and large prefer to make the game they *want* to make (yes, even if it doesn't sell as well. *Publishers* are who put sales numbers first), and hardcore war simulators certainly aren't the only games that can represent scale in more reasonable ways. Case in point, the Halo Wars games- in both games, most units are depicted at scales that are reasonably accurate in comparison to other Halo media, and even has infantry operating in bespoke squads rather than single units. There is still *some* scale weirdness (especially in regards to bases in Halo Wars 1), but this is very limited overall.
@@hideshisface1886regarding the clown car designs - troop carriers absolutely are like that "Just how many dudes we can fit in with all that armor (later) and guns?" Terran Dropships are scaled to Marines like normal cargo planes are to normal people That is to say, Dropships are luxurious in design, having space to fit two Tanks and some more dudes is just astounding Btw many countries to this day practice the "gotta put as much sh*t in there* for _tanks_ So that normal-sized tank over there houses 3 people, a battleship worth of armor, an entire supply depot of ammo, a kettle and a lot more and planes were always like that except now it's not the problem of "goddamn the engine's no good" but the problem of maneuverability, reach and such It's only logical that Terrans proceed with this logic to its extreme, basically making Marines into ammo dispensers, Tanks into self-sustained artillery that has some tank round as well and having a BC being a Nuclear Carrier the size of a small city Although it still bothers me that CNC tanks are like waist-high compared to infantry
@@hideshisface1886 exactly that's what I'm saying. Yes scale is appreciated but you are indeed in the minority for saying lack of scale ruins things. The thing about Dawn of War 2 and Company of Heroes is they don't use canonically huge stuff like Battlecruisers. I've seen real scale mod for Starcraft 2 and its funny for a while but I could never enjoy it if it was just like that normally
Pure balancing reasons, same reason why the small firearms of the marines can take those capital ships down instead of bouncing harmlessly like they should. In that case, fliers already have the advantage of ignoring terrain over ground troops, imagine of they always were faster too, there would be almost no reason to make ground troops anymore
5:11 Actually, mostly SC:BW, as opposed to SC II. Mostly because SC:BW isn't constantly getting pestered with updates to "balance" it, and wasn't murdered by blizzard.
I'm pretty sure that hevy named battlecrusiers like Hyperion and Norad wear ther own class in one and Alaxander is specificly mentioned to be biggest constructed when it was introduced to service.
I love the nerd rage I can trigger with these things. Guy comes at you with The Hard Counter, big fleet of tempests. Faster, longer ranged, huge bonus damage on Massive class. He’s laughing that you brought BCs to this fight. Only to have your Raven fire an AA missile into the tempest fleet, then watch the BCs disappear and jump right BEHIND and on top of them, at knife fight range. Followed by a rapid cast of double tapped Yamato and then settle in for the (brief) point blank slug fest. Rage baits them every single time.
"Real currency on the line" is putting it mildly. The Starcraft pros are considered the idols of some of their physical sports pros (so the rumors go.)
My first encounter with the concept of directional nuclear warheads was back in the 80's(?) from writer Poul Anderson's book 'Fire Time'. I've rarely come across it since.
there is quite the differences between starcraft and 40k: -40k marines are supersoldiers that are genetically modified EXTENSIVELY and are the absolute elite of humanity with armor thats extremely durable, starcraft marines are cannon fodder that are regular human beings, with armor thats mainly here to help take the recoil of their massive guns and to allow them to operate in any environment but is quite awful at actually keeping them alive from the attacks of pretty much anything the setting has on offer. They arent the elite at all, that would be the ghosts. -Tyranids are led by a disembodied hive mind and behave like locusts, consuming a world before moving to the next, the zerg meanwhile have very defined leaders with a physical form (the overmind, cerebrates and kerrigan), and they occupy the worlds they conquer instead of just eating everything and leaving. Overall their similarities stop at being a space bug horde led by a hive mind -Protoss are way more alien than eldars that are basically just space elves, and unlike them arent a doomed race that are followed aroudn by an evil god that ruined their civilisation and tries to eat their souls. Also as far as mind powers go they have them, but they only use them for energy projection of communication, letting their technology do the rest, meanwhile eldars have the VERY prevalent ability to peer into the future as a core of their race, something the protoss entirely lack. Plus, the protoss areent insufferable like eldars are in most cases
ghosts are more like the psykers in 40k, essentially being highly trained telepaths, even if ghosts are unlikely to explode due to immaterial reasons. The starcraft marine is basically the 40k guardsmen. agreed with the zerg-tyranid conversation. Protoss definitely are insufferable jerks, the ones we talk to in the games are just either respectful to raynor or their leaders. As for more comparisons: They are also being hunted down by an evil god (Amon though no soul stealing shenanigans except brainwash, basically play legacy of the void).
@@notatree4022 for Ghosts, yes being a psyer equivalent is a good point, but they also double as more common elite troops with their marksmanship and superior gear, though they rely more on stealth than tanking.. overall they would be imperial assassins, vindicare being the closest.(if vindicare were psychic enough to have some telepathy and suits that could harness it for invisibility) For the protoss, the conclave was assholish. But ever since it was ditched, they are far nicer (bar the tal'darim, who diss on everyone including other protoss). Post-conclave daelaam and the nerazim dont treat humans like dirt at all and in fact genuinely respect them, though they still have some difficulty with terrans being more rough and tumble. Meanwhile Eldars are ALWAYS assholes even when working as allies, and will gladly lead millions of another specie to their deaths to save just a handful of their own. As for the evil god part, it doesnt show up until later (pretty much only LOTV indeed, though things like the invasion of Aiur by zergs is also said to be his indirect doing if it wasnt just a gambit from the Overmind to get himself killed so kerrigan could take over the swarm), and unlike with eldars, isnt of their own creation (its the opposite in fact), and indeed isnt watching over every single moment of weakness to suck their souls dry, making it a farless everpresent threat.
i wonder where the geometical design came from. myself i think terran battlecrisers were inspired by ur-quad dreadnoughts from star control. Those were also big, hulky things of kinda the same shape, and had a frontal cannon that could melt your face
The game that was planned to be warhammer was not starceaft, it was warcraft: orcs and humans and the plan was scrapped before development began. I do not know who made the decision.
They did try to retcon the weapons in 2, the Hyperion which admittedly was a highly modified Behemoth Class had quite a few turrets, the ones you see on the upper decks are pulling anti air duty when they are withdrawing from Mar Sara. I think you see it again during the intial invasion of Char. A lot you can chalk up to sprite limitations and balancing, first game they give it a slow powerful attack while units like the carriers can rip it apart with interceptors. The design is cool though, big spinal section would be under utterly hellish strain holding the heavy bow and stern sections together.
Thank you very much for bringing back some awesome memories!! Have not watched the episode yet but already pumped! This was the game that helped me truly enjoy RTS games. And getting a Sacred Cow Shipyards breakdown of ships from this game? Yes, please? Also, the rants, still epic.
The Blizzard/GW link was an awkward back and forth involving GW doing what they do best and be way too overprotective of their IPs, mismanage projects, and burn bridges with other companies... As far as I'm aware, the first Warcraft game was originally intended to be a Warhammer Fantasy game. Things didn't work out between GW & Blizzard and GW took their toys and went home. Blizzard pushed on, not wanting the work they had done to go to waste, and constructed their own lore, finished the game, released it, made a bunch of money, etc etc... How exactly things link together with Starcraft/40k, I'm not totally sure. Some stories say GW offered to try again, other stories say Blizzard asked to try again when they wanted to branch out into sci-fi. What IS known and confirmed was that they settled out of court sometime around when Starcraft: Brood War was being worked on. We can also assume that GW remains supremely butthurt to this day that Starcraft became one of the most influential RTS games of all time, and World of Warcraft became one of the most influential MMOs of all time... Games that could have been based on THEIR ips if they hadn't done what they do best and mismanage things.
The similarities aesthetically are there, but in terms of lore aren’t. The Protoss aren’t nearly as out of touch as the Eldar, then Terran aren’t religiously facist or a monolith state (nor do they abhor science). The Zerg are pretty similar to the Tyranids, but eh, how many ways can you cook an ‘All consuming genocidal biotech hive mind’
@PinkMawile funnily enough, the nids got redesigned in 3rd edition to look more like the zerg. Anyway the main difference is Zerg are Colonizers whereas Tyranids are Raiders. The zerg stays, the nids eat everything and leave
@@m05513 Zerg are an ant infestation, Tyranids are a locust swarm, yea. And hoo boy... 3rd edition Hive Tyrant compared to a Hydralisk? Yea. There's NO denying the family resemblance there lol
I figured the unit they call a 'battlecruiser' in the game is more of a heavy close-air-support gunboat modeled on the actual battlecruisers that get talked about in the fluff. After all, they won't let you launch a battlecruiser - or even start building one - unless you have at least one entire supply depot free and not already tasked with supporting other units. That is, one battlecruiser only needs as much in the way of ammo, spare parts, fuels, and so on as eight marines. I'm sure those CMC-300 Powered Combat Suits are complex, but no way are they so maintenance-hungry that you could afford to either keep eight troopers in the field, or keep a _pocket battleship_ in the fight.
From the blizzard co-founder himself: They were making Warcraft as their own RTS game very early on, and the leadership was trying to secure the Warhammer Fantasy IP to slap on their game, however the creative team at blizzard didn't want to, while Warcraft was obviously inspired by early Warhammer Fantasy, the developers didn't want to be tied to an IP that can be revoked from them at any moment, which is why Warcraft (And Starcraft, which is obviously inspired by 40k, as well as Aliens and such) are their own unique things. This is because early in blizzard history they were making games that required licensing, and they had such a bad experience with rug pulls and not getting fully compensated that they simply made their own games. And lets be real, Metzen the creative director at blizzard since forever wears his inspirations on his sleeve, Warhammer, Thor, ect, ect.
Chris Metzen only returned to 40k around 2013-2018, some years after he left after finishing SC2:WoL. He was only a Rogue Trader, Gallagher, and D-Rok fan during SC1 development.
10:28 Neosteel is a High Entropy Alloy, which was a concept that was discovered shortly before the game. Short explanation, if you use molar weights to measure out equal quantities of a metal, you get metal thats as high above steel as steel is above raw copper. This was crazy in metalurgy, because normally if you add more than 5% of any other material to the prime metal of an alloy, it turns into a crumbly brittle mess that's complete shit and has to be refined all over again.
19:13 There is actually a size chart for terran units and buildings put out by Blizzard. And to give you a scale reference for in game, modders have taken the posted sizes and put them in the game. ruclips.net/video/h7Q_57U4oj4/видео.html i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/c8/6f/9bc86f86c39b34ff3f5c6961881f0957.jpg
16:40 in great starcontrol fashion the crew is directly bolted to the hull to provide armor The design also got mushed into anyones head that watched Star gate, or wing commander. All of wing commanders ships looked more or less like a tube or a hammerhead if they were being really fancy because that was back when polygons were still expensive
So, iirc, as far as the lore in concerned, the battlecruiser energy shields are very power costly to run, and the battlecruiser couldn't operate certain systems while they were active, like, I believe atmospheric thrusters or anti grav generators for operating in atmosphere. Basically the shields were only used to protect the behemoth during incredibly vulnerable moments such as exiting from a warp jump.
The canon length of a Behemoth class is around the kilometre mark while the Minotaur is around the 750m, the Gorgon sits somewhere between 1500m and 2500m since it does not appear in any official scale chart i know of
You don't understand the concept of being entrained by watching and listing to someone as they do a ting? Mabey dis question will help: "why would anyone want to watch you talk abut a thing when they can just talk abut it themselves?"
Mypersonal headcanon: Terran Battlecruisers are heavily automated and heavily crewed. But only the BCs that are in long term service are fully crewed. The BCs that are mass produced on battlefields and subsequently thrown away don't have full crews; these BCs are bare bones fighting machines operated by a skeleton crew of 6. They're not equiped for long term living and are empty of any large numbers of support personnel that regular long service BCs have.
I always assumed that terrans have downsized ground support battlecruisers (ingame) and full on proper battleships like the hyperion for normal naval duties.
@@DanielDracohun That's the case after the first great war with the development of the Minotaur-class battlecruiser. The starcraft field manual states that the Behemoth class (the Hyperion) is a kilometer in length. Based on the size of the windows on a Minotaur-class, it can be reasonably assumed that it is about 1/3 the size or so as the Behemoth. The battlecruiser is actually an orbital vessel and it wasn't until 2503 that the Minotaur class was refitted to allow for atmospheric combat - the Behemoth and Levithan classes are made for orbital bombardments, but it seems that the design philosophy changed as the Second Great War started.
The battle cruiser left so much on the table for late game options. I'm not surprised though, they had the same dedication to consistency as Games Workshop did to 40k. I stuck to protoss which really just ripped off Vorlon from Babylon 5 when they were filing off serial numbers after the IP fell through.
I know this is about SC1 BCs but for size reference between a siege tank and one of the SC2 BCs the StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm Opening Cinematic shows both
The Battlecruiser’s spinal mount (Yamato’s Wave Motion Gun) is pretty much just a Hellbore from the BOLO stories. A compressed blast, uni directional nuclear weapon that puts kilotons/megatons of FU per second on target. _See that mountain over there? I don’t want to see it anymore._
There are interviews with old Blizzard devs for SC1 on youtube. They say that it was orginally a Star Wars game but Lucasfilm imploded so the deal fell through. The devs do like Warhammer so the races are merely inspired by many pop culture sources which does include Warhammer 40k. Also the in-game model is not lore accurate due to balancing and playability. There are well made lore accurate custom campaigns called the Real Scale Mod that you can play for free.
You're half right on the Warhammer rip but you're too far forward, Warcraft (1994) was originally a concept for a Warhammer Fantasy game and was turned down. You can probably link this to why GW was so protective of its IP much later down the line after WoW became a massive hit, same as Blizzard taking all rights for custom games made in their engine after Defense of the Ancients (Warcraft 3) would spawn League of Legends from Riot and DotA 2 from Valve
Yes, please. Compared to just about ever other major sci-fi franchise I know of, StarCraft gets _weirdly_ little attention considering how popular and influential the game was. It's frustrating because it's one of my favorites, and the Protoss are probably my favorite alien species of all time. As for the similarities to WH40K, I'd say it's mostly superficial: Tonally they are very different settings.
StarCraft didn't 'riff' off Warhammer 40k. Same genre, military sci-fi, and all the cultural influences contained therein. Basically go read the Starship Troopers book. But even that book got ideas from somewhere else. Warhammer did use the Zerg as a basis for their Tyranid redesign though so whatever whatever. StarCraft had so much going for it style-wise, can't blame people for getting inspired by it. Siege tank is best wife. Blizz just didn't seem capable of building out the lore to the degree fans would've wanted.
My frustration with Starcraft's Terran Battlecruiser is that it is one of the most blatant and influential misuses of the name "battlecruiser" for a science fiction warship. Battlecruisers are fast and lightly armored, while the Starcraft uses that name for a ship which is defined by being incredibly slow and very well armored. The word "Dreadnought" was right there and they could have used it and it would have still sounded cool and also been accurate, but no. Ironically, the Brood War expansion added another Terran starship, the Valkyrie, which is an outstanding example of Battlecruiser design ethic- it's decently big, but not nearly so tough as the "Battlecruiser", while being fast and very well armed for efficiently clearing the skies of smaller air units. So of course Blizzard decided to label the Valkyrie a "frigate".
Yeah, the Battlecruiser (or Cattle Bruiser), looks cool. It kind of makes sense to have a "this end towards enemy" direction. Only armour that side. Only shoot that way. It's not like the literal Behemoth would ever get overwhelmed and have to run away, Right? My headcanon for size in the game is how large the ships/vehicles looks to people on the ground. Wraith is much smaller but flies lower so looks almost as big. Tanks look enormous.
If I remember the crunch right Gorgons were heavily automated, but in universe Terrans are very far behind in automation and have to use good old human resources to plug a lot of the gaps.
@@lordfrostwind3151 Something like that, however having less automation as time progresses and technology improves seems backwards. Or backasswards 🤣 They could at least retain the same level of automation that allowed them to run the older version of the ship with a significant fraction of what they needed for the newer ones.
The craziest moment that I experienced in all of StarCraft was when I was up against a friend who had some savant-like traits. Our fleets of capital ships were battling, and I heard the nuclear launch detected warning. I figured he was gonna nuke one of my bases, but I doubted there was anything I could do about it so I focused on the fight. I retreated my battlecruisers to regroup… and the nuke landed right on them, destroying every battle cruiser that had suffered any damage in the fight. My friend predicted *exactly* when and where I would retreat, and targeted his nuke at an empty area of the map, and it landed dead center on my fleet.
Brilliant
The game lasted almost 90 min, with an extremely drawn out and tense endgame where neither of us could build, my 3 surviving cruisers were sneaking around, sniping with Yamato gun, trying to avoid his ghosts. After painfully prolonged tension, he managed to lock down all 3 cruisers and slowly poke them to death. Considering the earlier miracle nuke, I figure he deserved it
Peak gaming moments. 😊
My craziest moment was a SC2 game were I didn't win a single exchange, but won the match. Muta-Ling and expand for the win. I just kept expanding every engagement. He'd take a base out and I'd double expand.
Classic 'play your opponent, not the game'
you can see it barely in SC1 in Inaugeration and in Victory. Behemoth class battlecruisers are so lightly armed because the central spine is actually a hangar designed to carry a Command Center, Barracks, Factory, and Starport. they have 8 hangars on the rear of the Hammerhead where they launch Vikings, Banshees, Wraith C (Tac Fighter) and Wraith Ds (Starport unit), Koprulu Valkyries (UED Valkyries are similar size to Nova's Gryphon or the Liberator), Griffons, and every variation of Dropship, and the rear wings have a hangar each.
Even SC2 Realscale doesnt implement battlecruisers accurately according to canon, because they would literally be flying terran bases that can individually fight and win against a Protoss Mothership while supporting the terran offensive beneath.
Basically, the 500 crew upto 6000 is fairly reasonable when you understand that. 500 are the crew expressly operating the ship itsself, the remaining 5500 are the crew of the task force that the Terran Battlecruiser is servicing Overwatch for.
You have officially made my most favorite sci-fi warship that much cooler than
in SC 1 the Gantrithor solo-ed 3 battlecruisers, so I assume normal Carriers are equals to BCs, and Motherships are like twice the size of Carriers so although your assessment is wrong, BCs are still formidable flying fortresses
@@ham_the_spam4423 gantrithor is classified as a super carrier, which are heavily armed (to the point of overwhelming many battlecruisers) compared to the standard carriers who only use interceptors
both types have an energy beam weapon used to glass planets, but aside from a fanmade video and chlorarion in sc2 coop fenix commander it did not seem to be used for combat
@F14thunderhawk So when in SC1 and Broodwar the Protos were represented as an alien race 5x more powerfull then your basic terran forces that was just a Psi-Op?
I know the books but the books were just there to fill in the gaps to make sense on how things worked in the universe.
Battlecruisers are powerfull but not mothership scale powerfull simply due to mothership shielding.
They can one hit a protos carrier but can not do that solo as they need a fighter screen to keep off the interceptors.
They are beefy ships for sure but not the behemoths portrayed in the books.
This is the failure of the same I.P. starcraft mirrors namely warhammer 40k where in the books units, vehicles and heroes are presented as godlike units but the minute you roll some dice they go away easier then an Imperial guard unit with high morale.
@@vonshroom2068surprisingly enough, the Protoss Empire could field so many Carriers and Scouts and Arbiters and it could move them anywhere at a whim (thanks to Arbiters) that _the Protoss became a "by the numbers" faction_
Tassadar's "expeditonary fleet" could stand against Terran Dominion, Zerg and the Confederacy at the same time despite being armed with mostly Scouts and not a myriad of Carriers like the Empire proper
And then the Zerg hit
"Mr. President, the second Overmind has hit the surface of Aiur!"
And they never could truly reach the extent of their might
until LotV Epilogue I guess
The Golden Armada is _nothing_ compared to the Ara, Akilae, Furinax and Sargas tribes' boys
Ah yes
The Yamato Cannon
Because what is more badass than weaponizing a controlled reactor breach?
*Space Battleship Yamato has entered the chat*
As an avid anime fan I remember my first time playing starcraft and thinking that that was great nod to an old classic
@@gregoryvn3 Real OGs remember Starblazers.
@@mikeloeven Well, they are both named after the same real ship/admiral.
If the question isn't sarcastic, I have an answer. Two controlled reactor breaches.
Regarding the rotational capacity of the ship:
Scale in Starcraft was obviously non-existent. So, the icon for the Battle Cruiser and other ships are, to me, conceptually their orbital footprint. Most likely they were in high orbit using station-keeping drives/thrusters, and were pointed toward the planet more often than not. And, that's why they moved so slow when changing position. They were reorienting their orbit.
It's kinda like how in Super Robot Wars 30 you have half-kilometer and 2-kilometer ships each taking up the same amount of space on a highly detailed map as each individual robot sprite. So, you have to wonder how representative the turn lengths and space actually is. For someone like me who's used to the grit and granularity of BattleTech, for all its foibles, it hurts the mind and I HAVE to come up with something to help my immersion.
its gameplay compared to lore right
@@scott-gaming.8834ya nailed it with this. Doesn't make it less rage inducing some times.
So how did my M&M squads shoot down Dominion BCs? :P
@ [shrug] If I recall, they're supposed to be shooting magnetically pulsed rifles, so range might be pretty good for those pee-shooters.
@@benparker1822 Probably not 500 km straight up if it's actually in orbit.
"Battlecruiser operational."
That's a line that is stuck in my head for decades. I very well wager my love for massive space ships blasting poor creatures on the ground with massive guns is derived from little me playing Starcraft.
I can hear the russian accent reading it. My favorite unit in starcraft
Shields up, weapons online.
Not equipped with shields? Well then, buckle up!
"Yes, Commander"
"All hailing frequencies open"
and all that with THICC russian accent
That and carrier has arrived live rent free in my head
Who called in the fleet?
Gameplay is gameplay. A "Realistic" SC battlecruiser is really more of a battleship that very much has guns pointed in every direction (As seen in SC2 cinematics. Remember, the Hyperion was an old one, from the time of SC1) and its a thing that can deal with a small army or squadron of enemy flyers on its own.
SC2 has a mod for Real Scale for the single player campaigns. Battle Cruisers are quite large in it.
The Hyperion is basically its own class with how thoroughly its been modified, it has its own ATA and ATS laser batteries retrofitted and overclocked to hell to fire at a blistering rate.
The crew literally has 2 of some of the greatest mechanical minds in the sector, Kachinsky and Swann.
this is also confirmed by the cutscene of Brood War, where the UED Aleksender is just looming over the battlefield with spotlights and guns pointing every which way
@@Marxon1134was Kachinsky the wraith pilot from Enslavers?
@@LegendStormcrow no that was kazansky
Prior to the "zerg rush" the term "tank rush" was used in earlier games such as Command & Counqer and Read Alert. The difference is that tanks are more more expensive but take more punishment. The zerglings are dirt cheap and pretty harmless by themselves.
Zerglings are anything but harmless. You really have to squish them when you have the chance because they will eat you in seconds if given the position to do so.
@hylje Singular zerglings are not much of a threat but they tend to attack in swarms. That is unless the zerg player is a fool.
Whats funny is a single unupgraded zergling can decimate a single unupgraded marine if they were to attack at the same time. It's range and the concentration of fire that helps rines. However, the chances of ever seeing this... Basically the rine would have to stand under a ramp or you'd have to cloud up until 1 space right before the marine.
Zerglings have the uncontested highest DPS in both StarCraft games, they are far from harmless, but they are melee so you can limit their ability to cause harm.
Kirov rush :P
You must construct additional pylons...
I can hear this in my head.
*beep beep* Additional Supply Depots required.
SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS
Dammit Aldaris, I have plenty of pylons!! 😡
not enough minerals 🥲
I remember someone superimposed a human figure onto a space marine unit. Turns out, you would have to sever all the limbs at their joints so that the human would fit correctly in the suit.
The suiting-up intro for Starcraft 2 solves this by showing how the limbs of the powered armor suit are basically wire-controlled, and the Marine's actual arms and legs aren't 1-to-1 in the same places the ones on the suit are.
@@haineko1101Tychus is _not_ a usual human; possibly a case of gigantism or mutation
Still, normal people would drown in Marine suits
This tends to be an issue with fictional power armor in general, since usually it's designed for an imposing look rather than for realism. Fallout power armor basically does the same thing: In Fallout 4 the character model has to be stretched out to fit the proportions. Though, the StarCraft marine armor is probably one of the more extreme examples.
Imma be real, considering how shtty these suits are, and the fact viking transformation will literally rips the pilot’s limps off. I see that happenening lmao. But yea more likely is that like the other person said it’s controlled by wires
@@RelativelyBestI've never considered this to be a big enough issue to care about.
In SC2 they do have slim Marine armor as a skin that's more of a Spartan II MJOLNIR complete with a separate and full helmet.
To me most "power armor" is more of a mini mech than anything else.
Typically when the scale becomes too big I just imagine they're mostly scrunched up in the torso, or have their arms/legs down to the elbows/knees of the suit.
The hands and fingers are always just way too big to really justify ever actually wearing one that's properly fitted to a human. I can't imagine they'd have a lot of sensitivity or be particularly good at subtle movements.
Plus when you start getting into power assisted movements you're going to run into the issue of the human body, especially the joints, being able to keep up with those forced movements, like how the Spartans literally needed bio engineering to use their suits because their bodies wouldn't otherwise withstand the forces and speeds they'd be subjected to.
So a Spartan outside the suit is already the pinnacle of strength, then you add the suit and it's even more so.
Of course this was somewhat stupidly mitigated in Halo 4 with the Spartan 4s so they could ma's produce them, as the armor did most of the heavy lifting, but they were an inferior product and idea anyway.
there are still large gaming centers dedicated to entirely Brood War, IIRC Brood War's competitive scene is both larger and more popular than SC2 scene in South Korea. also i do not miss dialup brood war. infact brood war was the reason my dad switched from dialup to DSL, after he got tired of having two phone lines.
"SET A COURSE"
I just replayed Starcraft last summer for the first time in years....100X better than I remembered! lolz
I know this is dumb. But you should try it with a CRT filter on. Makes sc1 looks better, since that was the intended medium
@@spearwy no game is fine without a filter, also I come from that era, already been there, played on crappy CRT's HD is fine spanks
Zerg didn't rip off Tyranids, Tyranids ripped off Zerg, they were completely redesigned to look like the Zerg in 3rd edition. Originally they were tool-using humanoids with incredibly stupid noses.
The irony is that even still the Tyranids are unable to beat a Zerg in both a One-V-One, and at the Macro scale. This is because the Zerg are inherently unstable in their genetics meaning that if a Nid ate a zerg they would at best cease to exist, and at worse become a Zerg.
There's something wonderful about the terran battlecruiser.
It has the length and the width to make you feel that this is a big unit, but the wings and the giant engines give enough "aerodynamic" vibe to make it feel active in comparison to things like Borg ships or death star
The ship that inspired the Bortasqu in Star Trek online.
Those "laser cannons" on the side of the Behemoth class Battlecruiser arn't laser cannons at all, but it is its Warp Drive
same as Minotaur class (seen in Starcraft 2) battlecruiser ATS/ATA bateries are mounted on its head and main hull
Agreed! I was like huh no that isn't right. I actually prefer the SCII Battlecruiser simply because you can see the laser battery turrets on the sprite for the BC.
I mean...they are both. The back end is the warp drive, the front end is their main batteries meant for taking on other capital ships. They did have other weapon emplacements for other targets, but the limits of SC1 meant that only the main guns were ever shown.
The limits of SC1 were also why we never got to see the OG Protoss Carrier variant that had in-built continental-cracking superlaser meant to purge Zerg taking refuge from within the crust of a planet.
going to comment early: Blizzcast #3 is somewhere on youtube and has Chris Metzen, Mike Morheim, and Samwise Didier discussing the creation of Starcraft 1.
It originated from a drunk christmas party at Mike's house with Chris pitching "Space Cowboys vs Alien Vampires", which actually is where the majority of what the protoss are survived to the release as even if ingame they dont directly show that since we never have regular civvys talking. the Zerg are taken from later watching the movie of Starship Troopers, and the entire project was then redrawn by Sam.
4 years later, Games Workshop stole the design of the zerg for the Tyrannid Redesign for WH40k 3rd edition.
TBF, a solid chunk of their shared design elements were from Alien/Aliens to begin with, so a bit of a case of "how dare you kidnap what I've rightfully stolen".
Stealing something has been a norm for sci-fi and space operas since they were born
Creative inspiration usually has many, many sources
gee, guess Blizzard watched a lot of anime during the development of SC1
oh and Tau are inspired by Protoss...among other things (spanning all the way back to Vulcans and beyond)
@@The-jy3yq It all started with pulp fiction
Adding to the last paragraph; Kerrigan the Queen of Blades came first before Dark Eldar's Lelith Hesperax the Queen of Knives
The only time I remember seeing one of any class in a cutscene where there was a clear sense of scale was the Heart of The Swarm intro where it appeared to be at least a kilometer long. But that was a dream sequence so who knows.
To be fair, Kerrigan would've known how big those things are, and the other units seemed to scale. So even factoring dream logic, it should be alright.
Yeah it's was a hefty son of a gun. Scary part after that is "how freakishly large is that Leviathan Kerrigan is running around in if it dwarfs even those?"
There are certain classes of battlecryiser that are larger. I'm sure it was the same class as the Hyperion, which used to be Mengk's command ship. It was one for the Confederacy before that.
*Laughs while orbitally bombarding you from the Spear of Adun*
I tried looking this up and apparently nobody agrees on how big these ships are supposed to be. The first thing Google tells you is that a Terran battlecruiser might be over nine kilometers long, which is absurd, but after that the top answer is a mere 960 meters which seems more reasonable and appears to be widely accepted. _But then_ I found out that in one of the SC2 cutscenes the Bucephalus is specified to be just 560 meters long, and the Bucephalus is supposed to be much larger than a standard battlecruiser. Same source stated it to be 82.4 meters wide (which makes no sense given the proportions of the ship) and having a crew compliment of 8239. And that's _from the actual game._ I have no idea what to make of any of this.
While i will give you the fact that command and conquer has had a massive following, it is not considered the national pastime of an entire nation. This game made growing up in the 90s alot easier
*sad Brotherhood of Nod noises*
"Battlecruiser Operational" - words that warm my heart
I heard the intro with the Warhammer 40k comparison and immediately checked the comments for Subsourian raging against how that myth never dies.
Starcraft was never based on Warhammer 40k. The only license that they even thought to pursue early in development was actually Star Wars, which still has some faint influence on things like the design of the Ion Cannon at the end of Rebel Yell. There was some inspiration of course, but it was more likely that both warhammer 40k and starcraft were drawing from the same science fiction well, and in some cases the Warhammer 40k codices actually came out _after_ Starcraft, meaning the inspiration likely went the other way.
Let me know if you've found him in this section lol
GW gets in issues with tolkien, tries to trademark 'spacemarine' despite the usage of the word predating the company and when it fails renames literally everything cause you cant trademark Imperial Guard,,, but Astra Militarum,,, sure.,.. meanwhile their big success in computer gaming came from changing policy to 'you go for it kids' letting literally anyone do a licensed product which sure has created drek, but its also given us great titles
Yeah they really need to learn loosen the death grip on the IP since its already caused way more harm than good. Dawn of war 1 and 2 and their expansions were fantastic, Space Marine 1 was awesome (I heard 2 is good, sadly I have nothing that could run it), Battlefleet Gothic was fun even if my computer tried to perform Seppeku every time more than 5 ships were on screen.
If only Star wars would learn a thing from them...
The people who made "empire at war" do want to make a sequel sometime... It's been 19 years... They did a damn good job the first time...
There’s still many StarCraft 1 tournaments televised for the masses in Korea, it’s more popular than StarCraft 2 somehow.
That is because its an extremely well designed game that is fun to watch, not plastic toys schooling like fish and crashing into each other like 2
@Szgerle a well designed game where you need to micro each unit separately, because they get stuck on ramps. uhuh
@ What are you even rambling on about? SC1 is a well designed game, SC2 isnt.
@@Szgerle as far as actual gameplay goes, everyone pretty much universally agrees SC2 has much better controls and a much better game engine. As far as story goes, everyone also universally agrees that SC2 was dogshit. I think the biggest reason for SC OG’s popularity in Korea is due to the fact it came first and people started liking it. Once they latched on, it was difficult to change the “national sport”
@@Mutavr say what you will about the gameplay, but you have to admit that SC1 had a way better plot for the story than SC2
"Field of Cubifiers" Thanks for the smile! :)
Korpulu Sector is Space Australia
Oh man 15:35 the nostalgia hits. I had this as my wallpaper for years back in high school
HE'S TALKING ABOUT STARCRAFT YIPPEE
Now that you've covered the basic behemoth class, I'd kind of like to see a specific video on the named battle cruiser the Hyperion
I love how despite being one of the oldest ships around (and a Behemoth at that!) The Hyperion has gone toe to toe with Minotaurs and even GORGON-class Battlecruisers and came out of the slugging match alive
As someone who loves to delve into little details such as a Battlecruisers rankings, a lot of them aren't mentioned or at least mentioned to scale, so I think the Hyperion is just that. "Hyperion-class."
Ps. Supposedly, the Hyperion wiki states it has a Minotaur-class. Even then it's also unsure of what the actual class is. (Which peeves me. -_- Much like the size of each class of Battlecruiser. For those who to want to know so they can build such ships in other games, if those games have/has sized measurements to build with.)
@@ryankoh917 The hyperion has been continually upgraded and retrofitted.
@@StarHorderyes
But some designs have integral flaws that can't be ironed out
Like Leviathan BCs being very vulnerable to boardings due to the close distance between the bridge and the docking ports
Or Behemoth BCs being too expensive and too weak-armed on their own to stand a single chance against Zerg
Or Gorgons being extremely vulnerable to Scourge and overall not having much in terms of ATA capabilities
I believe that the Hyperion is in its own weight group
Just like the Alexander
Bucephalus is _nothing_ compared to what the boys built during the Confederate days ('tis but a bigger BC lmao)
Norad II is probably only the flagship of Duke because Mengsk already hijacked Hyperion and drove it off into the sunset
@@The-jy3yqthe Hyperion used to be mengsk's ship till Raynor stole it, it would probably still be in mengsk's service if the kerrigan betrayal didn't happen.
It's a good thing Blizzard changed the Battlecruiser from spinning on a dime to firing in all directions so the Battlecruiser crews stopped getting whiplash every time ot encountered more than one enemy.
Reminds me of how the AI on attack move would target the frakkin interceptors while ignoring the carriers until you focused them down. I'd sometimes watch in amusement as my BCs would do that dime spinning thing trying to swat down those annoying gnats. Then I'd get bored and Yamato the carrier to soften it up for focus fire.
@AmandaFessler Carbot did an amazing animated rendition of it in Starcrafts Season 4 when the Battlecruiser goes up against the Carrier. We even get to see the inside of the bridge as it's happening.
@ I can imagine what that looks like. Really should finish Starcrafts. I zoned out a little bit after it shifted to Brood War, and the hilarious Dragoon/Goliath ramp pathing, because stuff was happening IRL. Thanks for letting me know! :)
@AmandaFessler Starcrafts really ramps from Season 5 onwards. I highly recommend you go back and finish the series, it's that amazing. And that reminds me, I gotta find time to binge the whole series with how enjoyable it all is.
@ I'll keep that in mind. Thanks again!
I had to look up the Casaba-Howitzer.
...holy hell. A nuclear bomb-based platter charge is just insane.
The nuclear spear.
Do Homeworld. Do Homeworld. Do Homeworld. Not 3, just Cataclysm and 1
Also Ship Breakers.
Homeworld 2, and deserts of kharak are also still good. 3 was such a disappointment
My first guess was Star Ocean as to the topic since that series also hasn't been mentioned by SCS
A battery is a turret that can't move, a cannon is a weapon without a reload assembly.
Ship batteries are made up of a number of turrets that can all move.
Old-style Tyranids are actually very different from the Zerg.
And then that changed.
on ship size, you check out EC henry's video on how much crew the enterprise D can hold. apparently you can squeeze a ton of humies into a small space (see actual humie nuclear carriers).
Don’t know if you know this but the Space Marine standard issue Rifle fires an 8mm Spike at a minimum speed of Mach 5. That’s well over at minimum over 100 times the amount of energy imparted by the standard 5.56 Round.
The Siege Tank shoots a round made up of a small nuclear bomb and a ton of tungsten. And so what happen is is that the Tank shoots the round and it then flies to its intended location and then the round explodes in the required area and it sprays everything around the blast zone with Molten Tungsten.
Most influential RTS? That's not how you spell "Command & Conquer."
Edit: Also worth noting that the Zerg don't consume planets like the Tyranids do - infested worlds remain living worlds, just Zergified, while Tyranids literally eat planets down to the mantle if not further.
Starcraft was the better game, C&C started the RTS genre or innovated it but it's SC that perfected it
Nids just eat the biosphere. Otherwise Cawl couldn't make his magical potion to fix planets the Nids ate.
I see you, I disagree, believing Starcraft has VERY OBVIOUSLY in my eyes gone on to do far more than C&C languishing in the annals of history, but I want you to know I see you.
ACKTUALLY..
with zerg it's more "convert" than "consume", altho consuming occurs a lot within said conversion.
Look up Starcraft 2 Real Scale, preferably Giant Grant Game's playthrough. You wanna see how big a BC is? After a point, the mod maker STILL had to scale down battle cruisers (and other capital ships).
The Hyperion went beyond map borders in Zero Hour
That's how big it is
The reasons why the baseless rumor about StarCraft and WH40K connections was because Warcraft was confirmed to be originally developed as a Warhammer Fantasy strategy game. People conflate that with StarCraft's history .
So, apparantly, before sc came out, the tyranids and the eldar were quite different. After sc1 came out, the tyrannids started to resemble the zerg, and the eldar suddenly got a whole bunch of gold incorporated into their design.
The video "battlecruiser exe" is fun little montage of the unit in the second game.
Also, if you want to talk about size abstraction, the biggest example is the science vessel. The cutscene "Battle of the Amerigo" is about blowing one up.
And if anyone wants to feel like their BC is proper killy there are "real scale" mods for SC2 that make capital ships half the size of the map. It's really fun to play through the campaign actually.
what was mind blowing to me was putting the following facts together: The marine fires a hypersonic round from the gauss rifle, it is 8mm but in a 50cal style casing, there is a depleted uranium round. Making the math by estimating the mass (volume x density) x velocity (hypersonic), the ffreaking rifle hits as hard as a 25mm autocannon. Your average soldiers has the firepower of a freaking IFV of our reality... No wonder Goliaths and tanks can be destroyed, as well as air units
edit: battlecruiser is an naval term for a cruiser that is faster than a standard cruiser but has less armor, which could imply there was something slower than the BC XD
Practically speaking, the first example of a round similar to that was the Soviet 14,5mm anti-tank round for infantry anti-tank rifles
It's comparatively small, much smaller than the 20mms and 25mms of the era
yet it _outperforms them_
By a *mile*
The combination of the tungsten core of the bullet, the massive amount of propellant, the velocity to mass ratio and the general aerodynamics of the bullet...it's practically a Gauss rifle round prototype
it is fired from a gun that is longer than most people and is so sturdy that you could possibly use it as a cavalry lance
CMC suits used by Marines are not only armor and space suits, but purpose-built infantry-sized platforms that can not only handle the recoil of their Gauss rifle, but walk or run _while shooting it_
An anti-tank rifle.
I used to use flying barracks to misdirect and distract the enemy while I was scouting for a rush. I would also land it to interrupt enemy pathing and if I was able to float it across the board without being seen, I would build an army behind ya. If you built a nuke silo you could also move your command center and make another one right next to it. You can get 4 or 5 built near each other and just move the command center from one to the other as needed.
Sounds like a Klingon weapon system. #LeadWithYourFace
Tell me that you NEVER SAW THE CUTSCENES, Without telling me you never saw the Cutscenes......
It shows the Battlecruiser to scale in the FMV. Its massive. the size of a small SC1 Map.
What's that in meters?
@@SacredCowShipyards hard to say since Starcraft 1 has poor scaling but, several hundreds to low thousands. IIRC some external materials give the Battlecruiser a length of ~1km.
StarCraft is a perfect example of the in-game lore and game's mechanics and depictions being somewhat massively disjointed - fluff and crunch simply do not align.
Now... Here's a thing - this was very common in early RTS games to have the scale completely out of whack because of various technical limitations and sometimes overly ambitious game designs.
Hence we have battlecruisers that look like they could fit maybe 2 marines; Vulture Jetbikes with an ant-sized riders; Dozen of common grunt marines shooting down a massive space battlecruiser with thousands of people on board.
Look at how hilariously huge SCV - your Terran worker unit is supposed to be. In game it is roughly as tiny as a marine. In lore - that glass panel - there is an entire human behind it, that's a full cockpit, not just a faceplate.
A lot of this scale is "conventional" so to speak. This one tiny marine may represent a single dude, a whole squad or a battalion for all we know, when scale is so terribly off.
Now the funny thing is... You'd expect that as technology progressed, strategy games would get the scale better over time... But no. There are only few strategies I can name that got the scale right and most still practice the "tanks barely bigger than your common footslogger" scaling.
For some reason it infuriates me to no end.
you do realize technology isn't the only reason for this right? Game developers prefer making games that are fun and will sell a lot. The kind of strategies you're describing are called hardcore war simulators and I'm pretty sure they will always be very niche. Don't get me wrong, I would like a super realistic strategy game but simpler games that don't sweat all these details will always be prevalent. Simpler is better for most people
@@varvariiin Ah yes... the hardcore war simulators like... Company of Heroes that got the scaling of units mostly right... Or even Dawn of War 2.
Both of those are among the most popular RTS franchises besides StarCraft and Age of Empires, but what do I know... They are not niche as far as RTS goes.
I'm not talking about realism as a whole - that is another can of worms, talking about scale.
A proper scale adds to the fun in all cases I'd argue - makes battles look more epic, units more meaningful.
Spectacle is one of the key elements that make an RTS fun... And maybe I'm in a minority here, but... When I see a "clown car" transport units or massive battle tank barely bigger than 2 infantry grunts, it kind of ruins it for me a bit.
@@varvariiin You're right that technology isn't the only reason, but game devs by and large prefer to make the game they *want* to make (yes, even if it doesn't sell as well. *Publishers* are who put sales numbers first), and hardcore war simulators certainly aren't the only games that can represent scale in more reasonable ways. Case in point, the Halo Wars games- in both games, most units are depicted at scales that are reasonably accurate in comparison to other Halo media, and even has infantry operating in bespoke squads rather than single units. There is still *some* scale weirdness (especially in regards to bases in Halo Wars 1), but this is very limited overall.
@@hideshisface1886regarding the clown car designs - troop carriers absolutely are like that
"Just how many dudes we can fit in with all that armor (later) and guns?"
Terran Dropships are scaled to Marines like normal cargo planes are to normal people
That is to say, Dropships are luxurious in design, having space to fit two Tanks and some more dudes is just astounding
Btw many countries to this day practice the "gotta put as much sh*t in there* for _tanks_
So that normal-sized tank over there houses 3 people, a battleship worth of armor, an entire supply depot of ammo, a kettle and a lot more
and planes were always like that
except now it's not the problem of "goddamn the engine's no good" but the problem of maneuverability, reach and such
It's only logical that Terrans proceed with this logic to its extreme, basically making Marines into ammo dispensers, Tanks into self-sustained artillery that has some tank round as well and having a BC being a Nuclear Carrier the size of a small city
Although it still bothers me that CNC tanks are like waist-high compared to infantry
@@hideshisface1886 exactly that's what I'm saying. Yes scale is appreciated but you are indeed in the minority for saying lack of scale ruins things. The thing about Dawn of War 2 and Company of Heroes is they don't use canonically huge stuff like Battlecruisers. I've seen real scale mod for Starcraft 2 and its funny for a while but I could never enjoy it if it was just like that normally
Odd that large air/spacecraft are often depicted as being slow when compared to ground troops they'd be practically the fastest thing on the map.
Pure balancing reasons, same reason why the small firearms of the marines can take those capital ships down instead of bouncing harmlessly like they should. In that case, fliers already have the advantage of ignoring terrain over ground troops, imagine of they always were faster too, there would be almost no reason to make ground troops anymore
The battlecruiser was awesome, but i maintain the most terrifying sound in SC is "Nuclear launch detected."
Edit: Lol. And now i feel vindicated......
No one tell him about the Sovereign Battle Cruisers from SC2 CoOp.
5:11
Actually, mostly SC:BW, as opposed to SC II. Mostly because SC:BW isn't constantly getting pestered with updates to "balance" it, and wasn't murdered by blizzard.
Doom, Diablo, Starcraft. Defining moments of computer gaming.
There are many different classes of Terran Battlecruiser once you get into the second game.
I'm pretty sure that hevy named battlecrusiers like Hyperion and Norad wear ther own class in one and Alaxander is specificly mentioned to be biggest constructed when it was introduced to service.
I love the nerd rage I can trigger with these things. Guy comes at you with The Hard Counter, big fleet of tempests. Faster, longer ranged, huge bonus damage on Massive class. He’s laughing that you brought BCs to this fight.
Only to have your Raven fire an AA missile into the tempest fleet, then watch the BCs disappear and jump right BEHIND and on top of them, at knife fight range. Followed by a rapid cast of double tapped Yamato and then settle in for the (brief) point blank slug fest. Rage baits them every single time.
"Real currency on the line" is putting it mildly. The Starcraft pros are considered the idols of some of their physical sports pros (so the rumors go.)
The most prominent players are literally called Bonjwas. A Bonjwa originally is a master of Buddhism practices.
My first encounter with the concept of directional nuclear warheads was back in the 80's(?) from writer Poul Anderson's book 'Fire Time'. I've rarely come across it since.
there is quite the differences between starcraft and 40k:
-40k marines are supersoldiers that are genetically modified EXTENSIVELY and are the absolute elite of humanity with armor thats extremely durable, starcraft marines are cannon fodder that are regular human beings, with armor thats mainly here to help take the recoil of their massive guns and to allow them to operate in any environment but is quite awful at actually keeping them alive from the attacks of pretty much anything the setting has on offer. They arent the elite at all, that would be the ghosts.
-Tyranids are led by a disembodied hive mind and behave like locusts, consuming a world before moving to the next, the zerg meanwhile have very defined leaders with a physical form (the overmind, cerebrates and kerrigan), and they occupy the worlds they conquer instead of just eating everything and leaving. Overall their similarities stop at being a space bug horde led by a hive mind
-Protoss are way more alien than eldars that are basically just space elves, and unlike them arent a doomed race that are followed aroudn by an evil god that ruined their civilisation and tries to eat their souls. Also as far as mind powers go they have them, but they only use them for energy projection of communication, letting their technology do the rest, meanwhile eldars have the VERY prevalent ability to peer into the future as a core of their race, something the protoss entirely lack. Plus, the protoss areent insufferable like eldars are in most cases
ghosts are more like the psykers in 40k, essentially being highly trained telepaths, even if ghosts are unlikely to explode due to immaterial reasons. The starcraft marine is basically the 40k guardsmen.
agreed with the zerg-tyranid conversation.
Protoss definitely are insufferable jerks, the ones we talk to in the games are just either respectful to raynor or their leaders. As for more comparisons: They are also being hunted down by an evil god (Amon though no soul stealing shenanigans except brainwash, basically play legacy of the void).
@@notatree4022 for Ghosts, yes being a psyer equivalent is a good point, but they also double as more common elite troops with their marksmanship and superior gear, though they rely more on stealth than tanking.. overall they would be imperial assassins, vindicare being the closest.(if vindicare were psychic enough to have some telepathy and suits that could harness it for invisibility)
For the protoss, the conclave was assholish. But ever since it was ditched, they are far nicer (bar the tal'darim, who diss on everyone including other protoss). Post-conclave daelaam and the nerazim dont treat humans like dirt at all and in fact genuinely respect them, though they still have some difficulty with terrans being more rough and tumble. Meanwhile Eldars are ALWAYS assholes even when working as allies, and will gladly lead millions of another specie to their deaths to save just a handful of their own.
As for the evil god part, it doesnt show up until later (pretty much only LOTV indeed, though things like the invasion of Aiur by zergs is also said to be his indirect doing if it wasnt just a gambit from the Overmind to get himself killed so kerrigan could take over the swarm), and unlike with eldars, isnt of their own creation (its the opposite in fact), and indeed isnt watching over every single moment of weakness to suck their souls dry, making it a farless everpresent threat.
6:00 people watch other people play video games like people watch other people play physical sports, race vehicles, or fight in combat.
Yeah.
That's all dumb.
i wonder where the geometical design came from.
myself i think terran battlecrisers were inspired by ur-quad dreadnoughts from star control.
Those were also big, hulky things of kinda the same shape, and had a frontal cannon that could melt your face
Literally my thoughts too as a kid
Starcraft Broodwar (not the remake) in Korea is actually a more popular esport than Starcraft 2
ive been waiting for you to do something starcraft related and i am not disappointed in the least
Can spin on a dime, inertia however has other ideas about you know, like... actual turning.
StarCraft is based off Starship Troopers. Yes, the book Starship Troopers had theee races. Yes, the race the movie left out the protoss style race.
The game that was planned to be warhammer was not starceaft, it was warcraft: orcs and humans and the plan was scrapped before development began. I do not know who made the decision.
"Hell. It's about Time."
_Starcraft_ is responsible for the term Zerg rush.
Yes! Yamato (in Japanese and Greek alike)
Neosteel, is derived from Kreevium, but must be put through a refining matrix first.
Finally, someone who knows the lore.
this brings back some good memories.
They did try to retcon the weapons in 2, the Hyperion which admittedly was a highly modified Behemoth Class had quite a few turrets, the ones you see on the upper decks are pulling anti air duty when they are withdrawing from Mar Sara. I think you see it again during the intial invasion of Char. A lot you can chalk up to sprite limitations and balancing, first game they give it a slow powerful attack while units like the carriers can rip it apart with interceptors. The design is cool though, big spinal section would be under utterly hellish strain holding the heavy bow and stern sections together.
Thank you very much for bringing back some awesome memories!! Have not watched the episode yet but already pumped! This was the game that helped me truly enjoy RTS games. And getting a Sacred Cow Shipyards breakdown of ships from this game? Yes, please? Also, the rants, still epic.
We're still having those rants.
The Blizzard/GW link was an awkward back and forth involving GW doing what they do best and be way too overprotective of their IPs, mismanage projects, and burn bridges with other companies... As far as I'm aware, the first Warcraft game was originally intended to be a Warhammer Fantasy game. Things didn't work out between GW & Blizzard and GW took their toys and went home. Blizzard pushed on, not wanting the work they had done to go to waste, and constructed their own lore, finished the game, released it, made a bunch of money, etc etc... How exactly things link together with Starcraft/40k, I'm not totally sure. Some stories say GW offered to try again, other stories say Blizzard asked to try again when they wanted to branch out into sci-fi. What IS known and confirmed was that they settled out of court sometime around when Starcraft: Brood War was being worked on. We can also assume that GW remains supremely butthurt to this day that Starcraft became one of the most influential RTS games of all time, and World of Warcraft became one of the most influential MMOs of all time... Games that could have been based on THEIR ips if they hadn't done what they do best and mismanage things.
The similarities aesthetically are there, but in terms of lore aren’t. The Protoss aren’t nearly as out of touch as the Eldar, then Terran aren’t religiously facist or a monolith state (nor do they abhor science).
The Zerg are pretty similar to the Tyranids, but eh, how many ways can you cook an ‘All consuming genocidal biotech hive mind’
@PinkMawile funnily enough, the nids got redesigned in 3rd edition to look more like the zerg.
Anyway the main difference is Zerg are Colonizers whereas Tyranids are Raiders. The zerg stays, the nids eat everything and leave
The falling out happened during mid-development of _WarCraft 1_ , way before StarCraft 1 (not Brood War, the expansion) started development
@@m05513 Zerg are an ant infestation, Tyranids are a locust swarm, yea. And hoo boy... 3rd edition Hive Tyrant compared to a Hydralisk? Yea. There's NO denying the family resemblance there lol
Starcraft was never supposed to be a WH40k game, or it would have been. Games Workshop has never been picky when it comes to licensing.
I figured the unit they call a 'battlecruiser' in the game is more of a heavy close-air-support gunboat modeled on the actual battlecruisers that get talked about in the fluff.
After all, they won't let you launch a battlecruiser - or even start building one - unless you have at least one entire supply depot free and not already tasked with supporting other units. That is, one battlecruiser only needs as much in the way of ammo, spare parts, fuels, and so on as eight marines. I'm sure those CMC-300 Powered Combat Suits are complex, but no way are they so maintenance-hungry that you could afford to either keep eight troopers in the field, or keep a _pocket battleship_ in the fight.
From the blizzard co-founder himself: They were making Warcraft as their own RTS game very early on, and the leadership was trying to secure the Warhammer Fantasy IP to slap on their game, however the creative team at blizzard didn't want to, while Warcraft was obviously inspired by early Warhammer Fantasy, the developers didn't want to be tied to an IP that can be revoked from them at any moment, which is why Warcraft (And Starcraft, which is obviously inspired by 40k, as well as Aliens and such) are their own unique things.
This is because early in blizzard history they were making games that required licensing, and they had such a bad experience with rug pulls and not getting fully compensated that they simply made their own games.
And lets be real, Metzen the creative director at blizzard since forever wears his inspirations on his sleeve, Warhammer, Thor, ect, ect.
Chris Metzen only returned to 40k around 2013-2018, some years after he left after finishing SC2:WoL.
He was only a Rogue Trader, Gallagher, and D-Rok fan during SC1 development.
10:28 Neosteel is a High Entropy Alloy, which was a concept that was discovered shortly before the game. Short explanation, if you use molar weights to measure out equal quantities of a metal, you get metal thats as high above steel as steel is above raw copper. This was crazy in metalurgy, because normally if you add more than 5% of any other material to the prime metal of an alloy, it turns into a crumbly brittle mess that's complete shit and has to be refined all over again.
19:13 There is actually a size chart for terran units and buildings put out by Blizzard. And to give you a scale reference for in game, modders have taken the posted sizes and put them in the game.
ruclips.net/video/h7Q_57U4oj4/видео.html
i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/c8/6f/9bc86f86c39b34ff3f5c6961881f0957.jpg
16:40 in great starcontrol fashion the crew is directly bolted to the hull to provide armor
The design also got mushed into anyones head that watched Star gate, or wing commander. All of wing commanders ships looked more or less like a tube or a hammerhead if they were being really fancy because that was back when polygons were still expensive
Negotiations with Games Workshop failed.
Do you know how little that narrows things down?
Battlecruiser operational.
Shields up, weapons online!
We're not equipped with shields??
Well then, buckle up!
this close of just doing "old man shout at clouds" meme
No, starcraft did not copy from warhammer 40k
So, iirc, as far as the lore in concerned, the battlecruiser energy shields are very power costly to run, and the battlecruiser couldn't operate certain systems while they were active, like, I believe atmospheric thrusters or anti grav generators for operating in atmosphere.
Basically the shields were only used to protect the behemoth during incredibly vulnerable moments such as exiting from a warp jump.
Huh, this is a coincidence - I literally spent this morning working with some starcraft-themes 3D printer models for a diorama I'm working on!
"back when blizzard was pretty good "
you mean 30 years ago :D
Also , lets be honnest , Starraft is basicly Warcraft in space.
The canon length of a Behemoth class is around the kilometre mark while the Minotaur is around the 750m, the Gorgon sits somewhere between 1500m and 2500m since it does not appear in any official scale chart i know of
You don't understand the concept of being entrained by watching and listing to someone as they do a ting?
Mabey dis question will help: "why would anyone want to watch you talk abut a thing when they can just talk abut it themselves?"
"why would anyone want to watch you talk abut a thing when they can just talk abut it themselves?"
I legitimately have no idea.
@@SacredCowShipyards lmao that is perfect
Mypersonal headcanon: Terran Battlecruisers are heavily automated and heavily crewed. But only the BCs that are in long term service are fully crewed. The BCs that are mass produced on battlefields and subsequently thrown away don't have full crews; these BCs are bare bones fighting machines operated by a skeleton crew of 6. They're not equiped for long term living and are empty of any large numbers of support personnel that regular long service BCs have.
I always assumed that terrans have downsized ground support battlecruisers (ingame) and full on proper battleships like the hyperion for normal naval duties.
@@DanielDracohun That's the case after the first great war with the development of the Minotaur-class battlecruiser. The starcraft field manual states that the Behemoth class (the Hyperion) is a kilometer in length. Based on the size of the windows on a Minotaur-class, it can be reasonably assumed that it is about 1/3 the size or so as the Behemoth.
The battlecruiser is actually an orbital vessel and it wasn't until 2503 that the Minotaur class was refitted to allow for atmospheric combat - the Behemoth and Levithan classes are made for orbital bombardments, but it seems that the design philosophy changed as the Second Great War started.
The battle cruiser left so much on the table for late game options. I'm not surprised though, they had the same dedication to consistency as Games Workshop did to 40k. I stuck to protoss which really just ripped off Vorlon from Babylon 5 when they were filing off serial numbers after the IP fell through.
I know this is about SC1 BCs but for size reference between a siege tank and one of the SC2 BCs the StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm Opening Cinematic shows both
The Battlecruiser’s spinal mount (Yamato’s Wave Motion Gun) is pretty much just a Hellbore from the BOLO stories. A compressed blast, uni directional nuclear weapon that puts kilotons/megatons of FU per second on target. _See that mountain over there? I don’t want to see it anymore._
There are interviews with old Blizzard devs for SC1 on youtube. They say that it was orginally a Star Wars game but Lucasfilm imploded so the deal fell through. The devs do like Warhammer so the races are merely inspired by many pop culture sources which does include Warhammer 40k.
Also the in-game model is not lore accurate due to balancing and playability. There are well made lore accurate custom campaigns called the Real Scale Mod that you can play for free.
You're half right on the Warhammer rip but you're too far forward, Warcraft (1994) was originally a concept for a Warhammer Fantasy game and was turned down. You can probably link this to why GW was so protective of its IP much later down the line after WoW became a massive hit, same as Blizzard taking all rights for custom games made in their engine after Defense of the Ancients (Warcraft 3) would spawn League of Legends from Riot and DotA 2 from Valve
*_BATTLECRUISER OPERATIONAL_*
I will never forget the UED mission where you hijack like 18 of these things and CRUSH the Dominion's pathetic fleet :)
Will be fun to hear the SC2 ship coverage.
Ah Starcraft, the poor man's Total Annihilation.
Sacrificing a minion to make the game connect is something the Imperium of Man would do.
Yes, please. Compared to just about ever other major sci-fi franchise I know of, StarCraft gets _weirdly_ little attention considering how popular and influential the game was. It's frustrating because it's one of my favorites, and the Protoss are probably my favorite alien species of all time. As for the similarities to WH40K, I'd say it's mostly superficial: Tonally they are very different settings.
Sacred Cow vs the cattle bruiser
Anyone else think this is just a bulked up D7?
StarCraft didn't 'riff' off Warhammer 40k. Same genre, military sci-fi, and all the cultural influences contained therein. Basically go read the Starship Troopers book. But even that book got ideas from somewhere else. Warhammer did use the Zerg as a basis for their Tyranid redesign though so whatever whatever. StarCraft had so much going for it style-wise, can't blame people for getting inspired by it. Siege tank is best wife. Blizz just didn't seem capable of building out the lore to the degree fans would've wanted.
My frustration with Starcraft's Terran Battlecruiser is that it is one of the most blatant and influential misuses of the name "battlecruiser" for a science fiction warship. Battlecruisers are fast and lightly armored, while the Starcraft uses that name for a ship which is defined by being incredibly slow and very well armored. The word "Dreadnought" was right there and they could have used it and it would have still sounded cool and also been accurate, but no. Ironically, the Brood War expansion added another Terran starship, the Valkyrie, which is an outstanding example of Battlecruiser design ethic- it's decently big, but not nearly so tough as the "Battlecruiser", while being fast and very well armed for efficiently clearing the skies of smaller air units. So of course Blizzard decided to label the Valkyrie a "frigate".
Yeah, the Battlecruiser (or Cattle Bruiser), looks cool. It kind of makes sense to have a "this end towards enemy" direction. Only armour that side. Only shoot that way. It's not like the literal Behemoth would ever get overwhelmed and have to run away, Right? My headcanon for size in the game is how large the ships/vehicles looks to people on the ground. Wraith is much smaller but flies lower so looks almost as big. Tanks look enormous.
One would think that the amount of crew would lower with better automation... sigh
If I remember the crunch right Gorgons were heavily automated, but in universe Terrans are very far behind in automation and have to use good old human resources to plug a lot of the gaps.
@@lordfrostwind3151 Something like that, however having less automation as time progresses and technology improves seems backwards. Or backasswards 🤣
They could at least retain the same level of automation that allowed them to run the older version of the ship with a significant fraction of what they needed for the newer ones.