Dude, the Klingons in that fleet must be pumped: "We have honorable allies and worthy foes! This shall be a battle remembered in song! Many warriors shall go to Stovahkor!"
Something I never realized before: Dax says at the end that they are rendezvousing with the “Task Force”, not the “Fleet” or anything else. Meaning the ships we see at the end are the Federation-Klingon task force that attacked the Taurus III shipyards. This huge number of ships isn’t even an entire fleet, and is only a fraction of the Federation’s entire Navy.
You are right. Canon starflest ship numbers from Discovery after half the fleet was secimated by the Klingons was 8000. Now move forward to the 24th century and account for growth and organic scaling up of an imperial navy, and it would be highly reasonable that by 2364, Starfeet would field a fleet of 30-40 thousand starships.
Space is quite large, much larger than can ever be shown on screen its hard to imagine how much of a fleet is needed to maintain control. I am surprised how the Jem'hadar even managed Kamikaze style attacks, the distance between ships would be enormous.
Bashir says later that the "Seventh Fleet" was something like 750 ships. And in the books (non Canon I know), the Typhon pact's comm officers make it a point of reading the registry number off of every Starfleet ship they report to their commanders, with the expressly stated hopes of making sure the captain takes note of the high registry number and thinks twice about attacking an enemy with such prolific shipbuilding capabilities.
Always loved the scene of the Defiant and Martok's Bird of Prey speeding away from the station, firing a few volleys off at the Dominion fleet before cloaking.
That fleet at the end reminds me of how while the Federation is no conquering Empire once you get them to go to war you realize just how massive the Federation is they have the resources and man power of at least 150 civilizations.
@RubiiX Guess the Feds had to bring many of those ships out of mothballs and retrofit them with updated weapons. The lesson for us here in the West is that even in peacetime, there are still threats from rogue states, terrorism etc, and that we have to keep the peace not just with treaties and diplomacy but also with a strong military.
Yeah none of that 40 starships at Wolf 359. Here the Federation has had time to prepare. Imagine if there was a coup and Starfleet became a warlike organisation!
@@danielramirez1529 Then you have shit like the USS Vengeance or the ISS Charon. Ungodly Dreadnoughts of overwhelming power. ISS Charon obliterated the surface of Harlak with on volley of torpedoes.
@@AnIdiotAboard_ Are you sure? CASUALTIES 91 million in the United Federation of Planets; 200,000 Klingon warriors; 190,000+ Romulans 900 million Cardassians, unknown Dominion and Breen losses
@Gothic7876 yeah the federation finally leant the hard lesson of you cant just ignore the miltary side of things. You can pretend all you want that you not some form of miltary but you cant ignore it, otherwise you might just get another nasty susprise like the Borg or the Dominion and next time you may lose
I saw an interview once with one of the guys on the team responsible for putting all these glorious shots of ships together. One of the writers (Ira Behr, I think) popped his head into the room and said, "We're going to war!", and they were like, "Fuck." because they knew how much work it was going to be getting all these ships on film at once.
They were using a mixture of models and CGI by that point. That fleet shot was CGI so it wouldn't have been massively difficult for that, but some of the better shots that involved the models, for sure!
There were 3 parts of this that stuck out for me. Nogs quote, sisko mentioning a joint federation Klingon taskforce and finally seeing the enormous fleet
I love how this episode plays on our expectation that Starfleet is being its usual passive incompetent self them BAM, nope while we held the line here they were out kicking ass too.
Because they actually cared about the story telling and knew they could get the cool factor in with the story. Unlike other creators where it's just like don't think about the story just look how cool this is, which just hurts the story and the cool factor.
the most likely reason is that Picard and Discovery uses more special effects than back then. The older sets did not really relied on green screens on every corner. The rendering special effects cost money, but worse part is also that it takes time.
The DS9 creatives were an odd bunch that almost seemed to rail against Roddenberry's vision before finally reaffirming it, but they cared about their work in a way that people in the industry today seem largely incapable of.
Genius happens when talent and opportunity overlap. The people contributing to the Star Trek franchise during that time were proper filmmakers and industry veterans.
@@KH4444444444N Same reason they're great to fly in STO. Sure, there's ships with heavier firepower, but there's just something satisfying about a phaser Array Barrage from a Galaxy or one of its variants.
Nah even if Garak was no longer of value Sisko would have let him come along anyway. He was a friend (if an odd one) and leaving him at the mercy of Dukat would probably get him killed.
I recently decided to rewatch all of Star Trek, chronologically based on the series release dates. For some reason I always thought the fleet was relatively small, having only seen a few ships on screen at any given time. Watching the reinforcements come in (very end of this video) sent a chill down my back.
The fact that Garak always tries to play down his skill set to just being a “tailor” always makes me chuckle. Like bro, damn near the whole alpha quadrant knows what u really do and it has nothing to do with hemming pants 🤣🤣🤣
I love how absolutely formidable DS9 was. It was a mining colony that got retrofitted with the best phaser and photon weapons technology of the federation. It survived a Klingon assault and the Dominion/Cardassian assault. Fleets were scared to go up against it.
Yes! Everyone always trashes the Enterprise D for being so weak, but they don't realize what absolute beasts these retrofitted Dominion war Galaxy class ships were.
To be fair, All the Federation Starships get an undeserved rep for being weak, simply because they blow up so quickly against the literal most powerful military forces in the Galaxy. The Cardassians, the Dominion and the Borg… But Even though so many Federation ships were destroyed, they all took a heavy beating before they went down. Galaxies, Akiras, Excelsiors, Steamrunners, even Miranda class starships could take a heavy pounding and keep fighting. It’s a War, ships get destroyed.
Many people don't realise that there's a clause in the rules of war that you have to pause your attack to allow the other side to evacuate and make a speech... Even the Dominion obays that rule
Remember onscreen is only a tiny fraction of the actual battle. In reality, there would be thousands of photon torpedoes hitting the attacking starships, penetrating the shields, and exploding deep inside the hull, every minute. There would be several ships exploding every second from the stations phaser banks.
I remember being a kid and watching that ending. Star Trek battles used to be just a couple of ships fighting (except First Contact, which came out several months before Call to Arms aired). Now we had the Defiant and Rotarran meeting up with a thousand ships. I couldn't wait to see the next episode.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.” never has that quote been more accurate than watching a massive fleet mobilizing to stop an authoritarian threat of unprecedented danger, not knowing if they will succeed…
@@Kolokommouna Hey, Klingons ARE actually fairly democratic in a way. Remember the Chancellor only retains power as long as he has the support of the Houses. And any warrior can challenge him for leadership.
@@Kolokommouna well, the point is more it's not really Authoritarian either. A true Authoritarian Nation would just slaughter anyone who called them out. Not accept their challenge.
I love how you see a real realistic fleet formation and you get all the ship types that you have known and loved over many years. You even get 3 defiants! that we can see.
Yeah the CGI company screwed up just like in First Contact the Defiant should not have been a near wreck in the battle against the Borg. On the bright side it gave the writers an excuse to have the USS Valiant and destroy the original only verus the Breen only to replace it with the San Paulo. Also two Defiant class ships join with an Akira to attack the Prometheus and Romulan Warbirds in Voyagers Message In A Bottle episode.
The Defiant was one of a kind because of it`s technical issues but after O`Brien invested the time and effort into perfecting her and the ship showed it`s capabilities in battle Starfleet, with the ever increasing threat of the Dominion, started producing more of them shortly before and all throughout the war.
@@Argumemnon A bit late response but my guess is we see many times to getting ready to evacuate the station seeing the real mess it got the ds9 and that she see him almost like God who could do anything, leaving her I can tell it broke her heart
Fact: The studio only had budget for one shooting model per species. As a cheat the same models are filmed from different angles and duplicated to look big. This was also one of the last episodes to use physical models over CGI.
Seeing the size of the 'task force' at the end brought home just how powerful the Federation could be after been given three years to prepare for a war against the Dominion, even if it is a 'defensive' war. It was rather sad to see in the Season Six opener to see that once proud force reduced to almost nothing.
Imagine how the Vorta and Female Changeling, and especially the Jemhaadar entourage felt on DS9 when their "God" signed the articles of surrender to the Federation at the end of the war when we won...Lol
first captain who is a dad through and through. he supports his crew's voices like they are family, gives them room to be who they are, guards them with his life. it may be my favorite thing about this star trek
this scene is so badass. which makes it all the more painful when season 6 starts and the first episode is all about how the dominion is kicking everyone's ass lmao
They had years to prepare for a full scale war, and still kept turning out miranda, excelsior, oberth and galaxy class ships. Ship classes which had been annihilated by the dominion in all previous encounters. Their planetary defense systems were antiquated. In short, they didn't really shift to a wartime stance until after the war broke out.
@@Eldoradoll7 I don't think so. They have connections to some of the most powerful beings in the galaxy and starfleet's scientists, builders, and engineers are quite crafty. they would have lost swaths of citizens, personnel, and territory (temporarily),not to mention morale as a collective whole, but they would eventually have recovered. The prophets, for their credit though, count as one of those "most powerful beings in the galaxy" and definitely carried the war for the UFP and the Klingons. Q alone probably would have shown up and snapped millions of Jem'Hadar out of existance just to see picard's reaction lol
So what? This is a glorious vision of our future. We already have phase cloak, and countless other technologies that would give us the upper hand, but are shelved because they qould violate treaties, so that when we are at our most desperate, we remain true to our convictions and edicts and risk it all, rather than violate our commitment to peace, even still with adversaries that flout violations to same without consequence. That is why the UFP and Starfleet will always win.
Seeing that combined fleet at the end is one of my favorite parts of this episode. I'm always a sucker for seeing more of starfleet, especially like this. My only criticism is that there should have been more of the modern SF classes and that they took the opportunity to attack one shipyard. I feel this would've been the time to take several task forces and destroying as many shipyards and other targets of opportunity on the way.
Let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that DS9 is an armored station. The Federation is the dude with the big house who always invites the block over for parties, but he's got an armory in the basement and 34 cameras scattered all over his property.
Up to the Dominion War, Starfleet was mentioned in terms of a relative handful of ships. 40 starships were gathered to defend Earth from Borg invasion, the worst thing imaginable up to this point. 39 starships lost at Wolf 359 was enough to seriously hamper their strategic situation such that they sued for peace with the Cardassians and had trouble putting together a small blockade of the Romulan border; they had only 23 starships in the tachyon detection grid. 15 starships were mustered to defend Federation colonies from a second Borg incursion in 2370. 9 starships were sent to protect Bajor in the event of a Dominion attack after the Tal Shiar-Obsidian Order assault on the Founder Homeworld. Only 6 starships were considered a sufficient enough force for a fleet of several dozen Klingon ships to break off attacking DS9. It wasn't until the Dominion War that Starfleet began to be mentioned in terms of hundreds of ships; I doubt they had tens of thousands of ships unless they included every vessel, like shuttlecraft, runabouts, freighters, etc. If they had, they wouldn't have been beaten so badly for so long in the Dominion War.
It is a matter of size, the Federation was massive. I think that with the alliance with the Klingons and the Romulans concentrating on internal affairs, the Federation began to expand rapidly. According to Picard in ST: First Contact, the Federation is spread across 8 thousand light years. At maximum warp that is an eight year trip from one end of the Federation to another. So it is possible that ships were so far spread across the Federation and since they were in a period of peace, they did not bother to increase their fleet to accommodate the amount of territory they had. I think that the reason that the Federation had so many ships in the Dominion war, is because they have been recalling ships from the frontiers since they had first contact with the Dominion. That meant ships had to have traveled for months and possibly years to reach the main fleets.
I see a lot of people here in awe at the Federation fleet. But look at what they are throwing here. Excelsiors and Miranda classes, ships about a century old. Mixed in with newer designs and Birds of Prey. If I had to make a real life comparison, think of England during the Battle of Jutland. Big fleet but made up of a bunch of old ships mixed with a few newer ones. They will win, sure, but their old designs will suffer quite the casualty number.
@@virgilio6349 people are in awe of the storytelling. This is the first time that Star Trek showed that the Federation meant business. Star Trek never showed large fleets before. The Federation never attacked before. The fact that the fleet was cut to pieces in the next episode made audience sit at the edge of their seats for the next 2 seasons. If this was real life, the Federation was not ready for a war after fighting the Klingons and the Borg in the last few years. Gul Dukat made the war possible before the Alpha Quadrant was ready. The Federation only started the war because Dominion was not ready either. Waiting for the right ships was the suicide option. i think that the saying is that "Need must when the devil drives."
Seeing that fleet made me realize just how much starfleet actually considered the dominion a threat. Like seriously only about 60ish ships for the Borg? This is a mega good example of starfleet getting their crap together for once
Everyone's here commenting about how awesome and powerful the fleet at the end looks. The writers realized that too, which is why next season opens with the battered remnants
They cut out the best part here when he leaves the baseball for Dukat telling him in no uncertain terms I’ll be seeing you again, their rivalry was superb
One of the most joyful scenes in this series, seeing that Federation/Imperial fleet incoming. A coworker of mine from 30 years ago always noted how StarFLEET meant more than ship, and yet, how many times was the Enterprise 'the only ship in the sector'?
Fundamentally, there are only two types of challengers that could go head long into a unifoed Starfleet like this. Zealots, or Borg. Anything else in the Galaxy would be summarily dismissed witb ease. Imagine the Hirogen, the Husnock, the Suttarans, the Tamariams, The Ferengi, hearing feom their helmsman..."Sir, I am reading a massive subspace wave, hundreds of ship signatures, Starfleet amd Klingon vessels, all weapons hot." "How many?" "Damon, 650 starfleet vessels and multiple fighter wings, 400 Klingon warships. Its an armada". "Then let's stay out of their way..."
DS9 is what Discovery wishes it could be without completely screwing up the timeline and introducing idiotic ideas like spore drives. It has the character driven narratives, the darkness, and aside from the Pah Wraiths at the end was a great series all around. Discovery on the other hand sucks not only as a Trek show but as scifi period. Same for Picard. The STD and Picard folks seemed to forget what made Star Trek, Star Trek and gave us just the same mindless drek we could see in any other scifi.
I think the events of DS9 explain the more angry and militaristic Star Fleet of the Picard era. After almost losing a war, and another Borg attack that got to Earth. I am sure Star Fleet had to pivot some
Furthermore, it (Discovery) even fails at acheiving it's own sinister goals of making already dnlisted and alfeady capable and powerful women, to be more powerful to the point where they can use expletives with Command's complicitness. We did the Gender Neutrality shit with Riker and Tucker. And Women i. Trek have literally been the most intimidating and daunting forces to be reckoned with. This show and this franchise shits on what Rivk Berman and Ir did for Trek beforehand. How is it that every single instance of a Star Trek spinoff up to and including Enterprise is consistently re-watchable, yet Disco and Picard has yet to produce anything I seek to watch twice?
In case anyone is reading this after 2 years, sadly it's probably not a Constitution class. Ex Astris Scientia has an article on 'kitbash' ships made for DS9, so what we're seeing is some unholy mix of parts that resembles a Constitution from afar
While Sisko was technically under a admirals command, that was just to keep the warrior of the federation in check. If you look thru all the BS Sisko was in charge of the war against the Domion.
I’m a late bloomer. Didn’t watch the show until I was in my 20s. But boys I still remember how my jaw dropped when I saw the Defiant joining the fleet.
This is how you do a fleet scene.... Not that scene that they didn't prepare the 1st season at the end where they just look like they photoshopped everything. Literally look like someone went crazy with copy and paste. The latest season for card learned their lesson and who did not breathe an epic wow when the enterprise When Beverly went Rambo on the borg lol
Huh, this is NOT the transporter seen when Dukat's people were being beamed aboard. Pretty sure this is the one that they were using for the Jem'Hadar episode. Why weren't they using that primarily? They transported a large group aboard then.
I remember just thinking... finally! TheFederation showing themselves as badass! Finally! Not push overs and softies. This is humans and the Federation fighting for their lives. You're goddamn right the Dominion lost. Federation kick the Borg's ass too. Try something. Do it.
The Defiant swings around, joining a massive Federation and Klingon fleet...screen fades out. One of Star Trek's best season finales.
Yeah ikr? Just when it seems they are about to have some big battle. And, of course, it happens off-screen.
Gave me such a gooosebump when it happened too bad they got their shot pushed in after screen faded to black
THE BEST!
This and "Mister Worf.... fire" are both just epic. The music, the way it's shot, the stakes - goosebumps every time.
That scene with the rousing music just gets me everytime I watch it.
Dude, the Klingons in that fleet must be pumped: "We have honorable allies and worthy foes! This shall be a battle remembered in song! Many warriors shall go to Stovahkor!"
Next episode quote “six bloody months of slaughter and what we got to show for it?”
Sto'Vo'Kor
Something I never realized before: Dax says at the end that they are rendezvousing with the “Task Force”, not the “Fleet” or anything else. Meaning the ships we see at the end are the Federation-Klingon task force that attacked the Taurus III shipyards. This huge number of ships isn’t even an entire fleet, and is only a fraction of the Federation’s entire Navy.
I think that is also very reasonable if you think just how massive federation is and how many wars they have been fighting
You are right. Canon starflest ship numbers from Discovery after half the fleet was secimated by the Klingons was 8000. Now move forward to the 24th century and account for growth and organic scaling up of an imperial navy, and it would be highly reasonable that by 2364, Starfeet would field a fleet of 30-40 thousand starships.
Space is quite large, much larger than can ever be shown on screen its hard to imagine how much of a fleet is needed to maintain control. I am surprised how the Jem'hadar even managed Kamikaze style attacks, the distance between ships would be enormous.
We never even saw the Vulcan or the Andorian fleets. Earth wasn't the only one with ships...
Bashir says later that the "Seventh Fleet" was something like 750 ships. And in the books (non Canon I know), the Typhon pact's comm officers make it a point of reading the registry number off of every Starfleet ship they report to their commanders, with the expressly stated hopes of making sure the captain takes note of the high registry number and thinks twice about attacking an enemy with such prolific shipbuilding capabilities.
Always loved the scene of the Defiant and Martok's Bird of Prey speeding away from the station, firing a few volleys off at the Dominion fleet before cloaking.
Yes, one last "FUCK All Y'all!" before they bumped out
They must have been pumping out a *lot* of ECM when they made that blockade run 😆
"We're outta here but also f--k you"
That fleet at the end reminds me of how while the Federation is no conquering Empire once you get them to go to war you realize just how massive the Federation is they have the resources and man power of at least 150 civilizations.
Damn Straight!
The Dominion woke up a sleeping giant!
@RubiiX Guess the Feds had to bring many of those ships out of mothballs and retrofit them with updated weapons. The lesson for us here in the West is that even in peacetime, there are still threats from rogue states, terrorism etc, and that we have to keep the peace not just with treaties and diplomacy but also with a strong military.
@@evertonporter7887 they sure did , star trek picard and riker armada of ships was just a drop in the bucket.
Bam. You see those Galaxy Class Battlecruisers ready to run hot with Type XII phasers and quantum torpedoes...oooouuu weee.
The first time I saw federation’s power on screen. It was awe inspiring.
Yeah none of that 40 starships at Wolf 359. Here the Federation has had time to prepare. Imagine if there was a coup and Starfleet became a warlike organisation!
@@Argumemnon yes. Basically the Terran Empire
@@danielramirez1529 Then you have shit like the USS Vengeance or the ISS Charon. Ungodly Dreadnoughts of overwhelming power. ISS Charon obliterated the surface of Harlak with on volley of torpedoes.
The first time ever that you truly got to see starfleets might on the big screen
@@matthewhand6380 And it was impressive as fuck.
The end of this clip takes the phrase “you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us” to a whole new level.
And this was before the Romulans threw their weight into it too.
Fire….
Ayelborn, "It is true that in the future, you and the Klingons will become fast friends. You will work together."
Kor: "NEVER"
Brooo. Seeing Starfleet and the KDF Navy mobilized en masse like this in common purpose is one of the coolest things I have ever seen.
@@AnIdiotAboard_ Yeah...Imagine the outcome without the UFP...
@@AnIdiotAboard_ Are you sure? CASUALTIES 91 million in the United Federation of Planets; 200,000 Klingon warriors; 190,000+ Romulans 900 million Cardassians, unknown Dominion and Breen losses
@@AnIdiotAboard_ Sorry, I don't have time for trolling or idiocy. Have a nice day.
And the fact that by the end of the Dominion War? The Federation was still ramping up its military production.
@Gothic7876 yeah the federation finally leant the hard lesson of you cant just ignore the miltary side of things.
You can pretend all you want that you not some form of miltary but you cant ignore it, otherwise you might just get another nasty susprise like the Borg or the Dominion and next time you may lose
I saw an interview once with one of the guys on the team responsible for putting all these glorious shots of ships together. One of the writers (Ira Behr, I think) popped his head into the room and said, "We're going to war!", and they were like, "Fuck." because they knew how much work it was going to be getting all these ships on film at once.
I wish you had a link for that. I'd watch the shit out of it.
They were using a mixture of models and CGI by that point. That fleet shot was CGI so it wouldn't have been massively difficult for that, but some of the better shots that involved the models, for sure!
There were 3 parts of this that stuck out for me. Nogs quote, sisko mentioning a joint federation Klingon taskforce and finally seeing the enormous fleet
@Mr. Cool Which were one-shotted in the battle to retake DS9.
@Mr. Cool And being issued with a red shirt to add insult to injury! 😁
Nog delivered one of the best lines in Star Trek history! Fist pump!!
Avery Brooks delivers gold with every line
I loved him right from the pilot. Sisko's a badass character if there ever was one.
He's the antithesis of everything picard is, but still manages to make it work as an epic starfleet officer
@@hobomike6935 Certainly neither man could do what the other did.
Absolutely.
I love how this episode plays on our expectation that Starfleet is being its usual passive incompetent self them BAM, nope while we held the line here they were out kicking ass too.
How does a show over 20 years old make a better visual of a fleet assembling than Picard with it's cookie cutout fleet scene?
Because they actually cared about the story telling and knew they could get the cool factor in with the story.
Unlike other creators where it's just like don't think about the story just look how cool this is, which just hurts the story and the cool factor.
the most likely reason is that Picard and Discovery uses more special effects than back then. The older sets did not really relied on green screens on every corner. The rendering special effects cost money, but worse part is also that it takes time.
The DS9 creatives were an odd bunch that almost seemed to rail against Roddenberry's vision before finally reaffirming it, but they cared about their work in a way that people in the industry today seem largely incapable of.
Because this show had heart and actual writing. Picard is Kurtzman Trek ie garbage.
Genius happens when talent and opportunity overlap.
The people contributing to the Star Trek franchise during that time were proper filmmakers and industry veterans.
Starfleet at war was epic. Absolutely fucking epic.
Agreed. At the battle to retake DS9, when those Galaxy wings unloaded on those Cardie ships to clear a path, the hairs on my arms stood up.
@@KH4444444444N Same reason they're great to fly in STO. Sure, there's ships with heavier firepower, but there's just something satisfying about a phaser Array Barrage from a Galaxy or one of its variants.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 Right? I love the GCS.
3:46 *when you've p!ssed off the united federation of planets for the last time:*
Sisko never gives another thought to letting Garak aboard, he knows that Garak has value
tinker tailor spy, all wrap up in one. An also just a humble gardener at some point in his life.
Nah even if Garak was no longer of value Sisko would have let him come along anyway. He was a friend (if an odd one) and leaving him at the mercy of Dukat would probably get him killed.
@@bob1986 Garak would have found a use, he has a knack for it.
And he would be dead if he stayed on Terok Nor.
Garak " Please let me come along, I tried to blow up their gods before it was cool ... TWICE"
1:52 - this is like MacArthur’s “I will return”speech during WW2 in the Pacific.
I recently decided to rewatch all of Star Trek, chronologically based on the series release dates. For some reason I always thought the fleet was relatively small, having only seen a few ships on screen at any given time. Watching the reinforcements come in (very end of this video) sent a chill down my back.
The fact that Garak always tries to play down his skill set to just being a “tailor” always makes me chuckle. Like bro, damn near the whole alpha quadrant knows what u really do and it has nothing to do with hemming pants 🤣🤣🤣
Sure, everyone says it was spying, but it was really Industrial Spying. Been learning Breen weaving techniques.
"And the shame of it....I was a good tailor too..."
Guy was an expert at taking care of loose ends
@@markstewardson4006loose ends... this needs more
👍s
I love how absolutely formidable DS9 was. It was a mining colony that got retrofitted with the best phaser and photon weapons technology of the federation. It survived a Klingon assault and the Dominion/Cardassian assault. Fleets were scared to go up against it.
Having Elim Garak onboard would give Sisko a great advantage in the future.
You never know when you'll need a good tailor...
@@Robert_Douglass He had nowhere else to be
Dukat would kill him
Yes! Everyone always trashes the Enterprise D for being so weak, but they don't realize what absolute beasts these retrofitted Dominion war Galaxy class ships were.
USS Venture!!!
Turns out if you take out the preschools and greenhouses, the ol' Galaxy class can carry a metric crapton of dakka and troops.
@@themocaw "Don't push the Pink Skins to Thin Ice" ~ Andorian Proverb
Yes the refit was 4 times as powerful. ( speed , shields, firepower) not to forget she carries an airgroup of fighters . She is a carrier
To be fair, All the Federation Starships get an undeserved rep for being weak, simply because they blow up so quickly against the literal most powerful military forces in the Galaxy. The Cardassians, the Dominion and the Borg…
But Even though so many Federation ships were destroyed, they all took a heavy beating before they went down. Galaxies, Akiras, Excelsiors, Steamrunners, even Miranda class starships could take a heavy pounding and keep fighting.
It’s a War, ships get destroyed.
Many people don't realise that there's a clause in the rules of war that you have to pause your attack to allow the other side to evacuate and make a speech... Even the Dominion obays that rule
Remember onscreen is only a tiny fraction of the actual battle. In reality, there would be thousands of photon torpedoes hitting the attacking starships, penetrating the shields, and exploding deep inside the hull, every minute. There would be several ships exploding every second from the stations phaser banks.
They actually said the dominion fleet was regrouping which is why Sisko had that chance.
I remember being a kid and watching that ending. Star Trek battles used to be just a couple of ships fighting (except First Contact, which came out several months before Call to Arms aired). Now we had the Defiant and Rotarran meeting up with a thousand ships. I couldn't wait to see the next episode.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.” never has that quote been more accurate than watching a massive fleet mobilizing to stop an authoritarian threat of unprecedented danger, not knowing if they will succeed…
ironic considering the klingon ships
@@Kolokommouna Hey, Klingons ARE actually fairly democratic in a way. Remember the Chancellor only retains power as long as he has the support of the Houses. And any warrior can challenge him for leadership.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 it is a class democracy, this case a democracy of the aristocracy
But in the modern use of the word,
no, no, absolutely NO
@@Kolokommouna well, the point is more it's not really Authoritarian either. A true Authoritarian Nation would just slaughter anyone who called them out. Not accept their challenge.
Seeing Starfleet and the Klingon Empire flying in formation like that is the best thing
It's pretty smart from the show runners that we come back to this fleet six months later, battered, bruised and looking low on ships.
I love how you see a real realistic fleet formation and you get all the ship types that you have known and loved over many years. You even get 3 defiants! that we can see.
there's a
DEFIANT class ship in the fleet
other than the
USS DEFIANT
Actually, there are another two class ships, making it three altogether.
Yeah the CGI company screwed up just like in First Contact the Defiant should not have been a near wreck in the battle against the Borg. On the bright side it gave the writers an excuse to have the USS Valiant and destroy the original only verus the Breen only to replace it with the San Paulo. Also two Defiant class ships join with an Akira to attack the Prometheus and Romulan Warbirds in Voyagers Message In A Bottle episode.
@@drunkrumjack the successor to the Defiant was called the Sao Paulo, not San Paulo.
@@MrSec84 My bad. So was the floor the "Sao Pualo" according to Bashir.
The Defiant was one of a kind because of it`s technical issues but after O`Brien invested the time and effort into perfecting her and the ship showed it`s capabilities in battle Starfleet, with the ever increasing threat of the Dominion, started producing more of them shortly before and all throughout the war.
"We're evacuating the station."
Kira Nerys whips her head around like "WHAT THE FUCK?!"
Yeah bad direction, there. Obviously she knew the plan.
"lol bye Nerys good luck"
@@Argumemnon A bit late response but my guess is we see many times to getting ready to evacuate the station seeing the real mess it got the ds9 and that she see him almost like God who could do anything, leaving her I can tell it broke her heart
The first time I saw this scene, I couldn’t move for a few moments! It was the most awesome scene I had ever seen on Star Trek!!
The last 3 min, the best Trek-Scene ever...
Fact: The studio only had budget for one shooting model per species. As a cheat the same models are filmed from different angles and duplicated to look big. This was also one of the last episodes to use physical models over CGI.
After all these years, seeing Starfleet and Klingon defense Force in unison against a common foe. F*** around and find out never look so good.
Seeing that final scene for the first time decades ago was so unreal.
Sometimes, it's easy to forget the "armada" part of Starfleet's whole "exploratory, humanitarian, and peacekeeping armada" bit
Seeing the size of the 'task force' at the end brought home just how powerful the Federation could be after been given three years to prepare for a war against the Dominion, even if it is a 'defensive' war. It was rather sad to see in the Season Six opener to see that once proud force reduced to almost nothing.
Imagine how the Vorta and Female Changeling, and especially the Jemhaadar entourage felt on DS9 when their "God" signed the articles of surrender to the Federation at the end of the war when we won...Lol
Sisko needs to be drafted to deal with current real world events👍🏻
Besides the cliffhanger of “best of both worlds” this is the best ending to a season, going to war!
first captain who is a dad through and through. he supports his crew's voices like they are family, gives them room to be who they are, guards them with his life. it may be my favorite thing about this star trek
My favorite part is Nog: And then we make the Dominion sorry they ever set foot in the Alpha Quadrant.
My boy is Starfleet all the way.
I didn't realize how large the Federation fleet was until DS9.
Starfleet is massive. The Federation is THE superpower of the Alpha Quadrant for a reason.
And that was considered a taskforce, not a fleet
this scene is so badass.
which makes it all the more painful when season 6 starts and the first episode is all about how the dominion is kicking everyone's ass lmao
This reminds me of MacAuthur leaving the Philippines.
3:37 Nog sums up how I feel about coronavirus now😁.
it's time we make COVID-19 sorry it ever set foot in the alpha quadrant
And then they got their butts kicked by the Dominion for 3 months.
If the prophets hadn't destroyed the dominion fleet, the federation and Klingons definetly would have lost the war.
Dunkirk, 1941...and then Normandy, 1944! That's when the war got serious. Same with the Federation and its allies.
They had years to prepare for a full scale war, and still kept turning out miranda, excelsior, oberth and galaxy class ships. Ship classes which had been annihilated by the dominion in all previous encounters. Their planetary defense systems were antiquated. In short, they didn't really shift to a wartime stance until after the war broke out.
@@Eldoradoll7 I don't think so. They have connections to some of the most powerful beings in the galaxy and starfleet's scientists, builders, and engineers are quite crafty. they would have lost swaths of citizens, personnel, and territory (temporarily),not to mention morale as a collective whole, but they would eventually have recovered.
The prophets, for their credit though, count as one of those "most powerful beings in the galaxy" and definitely carried the war for the UFP and the Klingons.
Q alone probably would have shown up and snapped millions of Jem'Hadar out of existance just to see picard's reaction lol
So what? This is a glorious vision of our future. We already have phase cloak, and countless other technologies that would give us the upper hand, but are shelved because they qould violate treaties, so that when we are at our most desperate, we remain true to our convictions and edicts and risk it all, rather than violate our commitment to peace, even still with adversaries that flout violations to same without consequence. That is why the UFP and Starfleet will always win.
Seeing that combined fleet at the end is one of my favorite parts of this episode. I'm always a sucker for seeing more of starfleet, especially like this. My only criticism is that there should have been more of the modern SF classes and that they took the opportunity to attack one shipyard.
I feel this would've been the time to take several task forces and destroying as many shipyards and other targets of opportunity on the way.
You just know that every Klingon in that fleet had a chubby.
3:01 If you listen carefully you can hear the difference between Rotarran's and Defiant's cloaking devices.
Really cool they threw that in...
Let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that DS9 is an armored station. The Federation is the dude with the big house who always invites the block over for parties, but he's got an armory in the basement and 34 cameras scattered all over his property.
my jaw dropped down to the basement back then on that old tiny 14" tv-screen. childhood memories
It's really a toss up between this and Best Of Both Worlds part one for the best season cliffhanger.
Never got the obsession with Best of Both Worlds among fans.
@@toamatau8785 you'd be in the minority then.
@@Mogwai786 I know.
@@toamatau8785 What you don't know is that you're probably in the wrong because of that.
@@Mogwai786 "being in the minority makes you wrong", what a wonderful message and so very Star Trek-ish
The launch of the first doomstack in a war is always a surreal experience
Funny how such low budget series has more ship types in one shot than an entire season of Picard.
I remember the last scene giving me chills when I first saw it. It was truly a WTF moment for Star Trek.
Sisko is giving off serious Nick Fury vibes here.
3:46 When you push the pink skin into the thin ice.
Well said, Soval...
My favorite thing? That Federation fleet is merely a taskforce. A FRACTION of the total power of the Federation.
Look at Morn, he is beside himself with emotion.
And even then, he wouldn’t shut up. 😂😂😂
Watching the end scene for the first time really dropped me in awe.
The Federation alliance fleet is very majestic. 😮
Up to the Dominion War, Starfleet was mentioned in terms of a relative handful of ships. 40 starships were gathered to defend Earth from Borg invasion, the worst thing imaginable up to this point. 39 starships lost at Wolf 359 was enough to seriously hamper their strategic situation such that they sued for peace with the Cardassians and had trouble putting together a small blockade of the Romulan border; they had only 23 starships in the tachyon detection grid. 15 starships were mustered to defend Federation colonies from a second Borg incursion in 2370. 9 starships were sent to protect Bajor in the event of a Dominion attack after the Tal Shiar-Obsidian Order assault on the Founder Homeworld. Only 6 starships were considered a sufficient enough force for a fleet of several dozen Klingon ships to break off attacking DS9. It wasn't until the Dominion War that Starfleet began to be mentioned in terms of hundreds of ships; I doubt they had tens of thousands of ships unless they included every vessel, like shuttlecraft, runabouts, freighters, etc. If they had, they wouldn't have been beaten so badly for so long in the Dominion War.
It is a matter of size, the Federation was massive. I think that with the alliance with the Klingons and the Romulans concentrating on internal affairs, the Federation began to expand rapidly. According to Picard in ST: First Contact, the Federation is spread across 8 thousand light years. At maximum warp that is an eight year trip from one end of the Federation to another. So it is possible that ships were so far spread across the Federation and since they were in a period of peace, they did not bother to increase their fleet to accommodate the amount of territory they had. I think that the reason that the Federation had so many ships in the Dominion war, is because they have been recalling ships from the frontiers since they had first contact with the Dominion. That meant ships had to have traveled for months and possibly years to reach the main fleets.
I see a lot of people here in awe at the Federation fleet. But look at what they are throwing here. Excelsiors and Miranda classes, ships about a century old. Mixed in with newer designs and Birds of Prey. If I had to make a real life comparison, think of England during the Battle of Jutland. Big fleet but made up of a bunch of old ships mixed with a few newer ones. They will win, sure, but their old designs will suffer quite the casualty number.
Quantity is a quality on its own my friend.
@@R1ckj333 Tell that to the crew of the 2 Mirandas flanking the Defiance.
@@virgilio6349 people are in awe of the storytelling. This is the first time that Star Trek showed that the Federation meant business. Star Trek never showed large fleets before. The Federation never attacked before. The fact that the fleet was cut to pieces in the next episode made audience sit at the edge of their seats for the next 2 seasons.
If this was real life, the Federation was not ready for a war after fighting the Klingons and the Borg in the last few years. Gul Dukat made the war possible before the Alpha Quadrant was ready. The Federation only started the war because Dominion was not ready either. Waiting for the right ships was the suicide option. i think that the saying is that "Need must when the devil drives."
The 1st time ever you got to see starfleets might on the big screen
Helm, now that my sad speech is over, set a course to *Risa*
They're out there fighting space battles and shit while I'm sitting here eating baked beans straight from the can
My favorite ST series❤️❤️❤️
Mine too
Best scene in all of Trek History!
The Most hardest Part of being a parent.
You dont habe to Like the choises your child makes, but you have to accept it!
Seeing that fleet made me realize just how much starfleet actually considered the dominion a threat. Like seriously only about 60ish ships for the Borg? This is a mega good example of starfleet getting their crap together for once
They had years to mobilize for the Dominion effort. Makes all the difference vs Borg incursions that occur wherever and whenever.
Everyone's here commenting about how awesome and powerful the fleet at the end looks. The writers realized that too, which is why next season opens with the battered remnants
3:48 the beginning of modern Trek space-bukkake.
It was really nice of the attacking fleet to stop long enough for Ben to make that lovely speech.
So much love for the Defiant
One of the most epic moments in DS9..
Captain Benjamin Sisko's I Shall Return Speech
They cut out the best part here when he leaves the baseball for Dukat telling him in no uncertain terms I’ll be seeing you again, their rivalry was superb
The Final scene let me jump from the sofa and screem!!! Yes Yes Yes!!!
One of the most joyful scenes in this series, seeing that Federation/Imperial fleet incoming. A coworker of mine from 30 years ago always noted how StarFLEET meant more than ship, and yet, how many times was the Enterprise 'the only ship in the sector'?
That just tells you how BIG space is.
Hell yeah! Alpha Quadrant FTW!
Fundamentally, there are only two types of challengers that could go head long into a unifoed Starfleet like this. Zealots, or Borg. Anything else in the Galaxy would be summarily dismissed witb ease. Imagine the Hirogen, the Husnock, the Suttarans, the Tamariams, The Ferengi, hearing feom their helmsman..."Sir, I am reading a massive subspace wave, hundreds of ship signatures, Starfleet amd Klingon vessels, all weapons hot." "How many?" "Damon, 650 starfleet vessels and multiple fighter wings, 400 Klingon warships. Its an armada". "Then let's stay out of their way..."
Imagine if every vessel in the Federation armada was a fighter.
“Sisko to Defiant”
Memorable quotes!
DS9 is what Discovery wishes it could be without completely screwing up the timeline and introducing idiotic ideas like spore drives. It has the character driven narratives, the darkness, and aside from the Pah Wraiths at the end was a great series all around. Discovery on the other hand sucks not only as a Trek show but as scifi period. Same for Picard.
The STD and Picard folks seemed to forget what made Star Trek, Star Trek and gave us just the same mindless drek we could see in any other scifi.
For one thing STD needs to have a stable camera when battles are happening, it's a literal headache watching space battles on STD.
I think the events of DS9 explain the more angry and militaristic Star Fleet of the Picard era. After almost losing a war, and another Borg attack that got to Earth. I am sure Star Fleet had to pivot some
Furthermore, it (Discovery) even fails at acheiving it's own sinister goals of making already dnlisted and alfeady capable and powerful women, to be more powerful to the point where they can use expletives with Command's complicitness. We did the Gender Neutrality shit with Riker and Tucker. And Women i. Trek have literally been the most intimidating and daunting forces to be reckoned with. This show and this franchise shits on what Rivk Berman and Ir did for Trek beforehand. How is it that every single instance of a Star Trek spinoff up to and including Enterprise is consistently re-watchable, yet Disco and Picard has yet to produce anything I seek to watch twice?
Look at the Excelsior, Galaxy, Miranda, and Ambassador classes!!
rather than star trek discovery, they should have made the series of the operation to take out the shipyard alluded to here
Or different perspective of the Dominion war will be good too.
I think the suits are afraid it would melt people's minds if they see that.
Meanwhile Picard is willing to sacrifice the Federation for a son he just met a few days ago. Sisko is a more realistic leader IMHO.
I could be imagining this, but at 3:57, if you look above the Galaxy class at the far right, there looks to be an un rebuilt Constitution class!
In case anyone is reading this after 2 years, sadly it's probably not a Constitution class. Ex Astris Scientia has an article on 'kitbash' ships made for DS9, so what we're seeing is some unholy mix of parts that resembles a Constitution from afar
A powerful ending, but the next episode showed just how bad the Federation was loosing.
Holy shit, the federation is impressive
Douglas MacArthur in space.
While Sisko was technically under a admirals command, that was just to keep the warrior of the federation in check. If you look thru all the BS Sisko was in charge of the war against the Domion.
Even Morn was silent for Sisko's departing speech.
I’m a late bloomer. Didn’t watch the show until I was in my 20s. But boys I still remember how my jaw dropped when I saw the Defiant joining the fleet.
This is how you do a fleet scene.... Not that scene that they didn't prepare the 1st season at the end where they just look like they photoshopped everything. Literally look like someone went crazy with copy and paste. The latest season for card learned their lesson and who did not breathe an epic wow when the enterprise When Beverly went Rambo on the borg lol
Huh, this is NOT the transporter seen when Dukat's people were being beamed aboard. Pretty sure this is the one that they were using for the Jem'Hadar episode. Why weren't they using that primarily? They transported a large group aboard then.
Outside of Picard season 3 fleet this is awesome
WWOR in New York, my boi
I remember just thinking... finally! TheFederation showing themselves as badass! Finally! Not push overs and softies. This is humans and the Federation fighting for their lives. You're goddamn right the Dominion lost.
Federation kick the Borg's ass too.
Try something. Do it.
This was as awesome a cliffhanger as Best of Both Worlds.