This video definitely forced me to look at the BD dynasty at eye-level. I kind of scratched my head and said to myself, "You know what? Every corps DOES do a lot of the same things BD's guilty of." It's pretty crazy if you think about it. I think this video actually helps me appreciate BD more as a brand of drum corps performance. Like, yeah, blob hit, but also z-pull, crown set, oo/o/ooo (BAC hits), etc. Each corps has their own "thing" so to speak and that's not a problem. I suppose if it were still Cadets that reigned supreme they would get all the heat that BD does today. "Here we go, z-pull part 20" MY biggest gripe is that competition is ultimately at the heart of corps-style culture. Due to that, I don't really feel like competition is true competition if realistically, only one group has a solid shot at a title. I WANT SHAKEUP DAMMIT! Let me see every group be like Boston in 2017 when they jumped like 5 places from the year before. And yeah "blah blah subjective artform with objective judging" "something something different shows on the same scoring sheet." Whatever. I don't think I'm asking for a lot. No other group in the marching arts dominates like BD. You don't see consistent single year gaps between Pride of Cincinnati or Pulse/Broken City victories. Titles for those groups are a lot more spaced out and leave more room for other groups to have a shot. Really the moral of the story is that marching is full of politics and people will always have something to complain about. Great job with the video, Everett.
That is a valid point about WGI and the other circuits in the activity. BOA has a handful of top bands every year, but other than the occasional repeat or even 3 peat champion, it’s not usually the same band over and over. Carmel has kind of built themselves into that position, but even then I feel like there’s more parity in BOA. WGI has a lot of parity
I think a big part of it is the staff. So often you see corps change the entire staff in the off-season, while BD has had basically the same design team and caption leadership for more than 2 decades. It’s hard to argue with that consistency
Why change staff when there’s nothing wrong ? If it ain’t broke why fix it? No need to change an entire roster if what you’re doing works well and produces success/quality 🤷
exactly....as a performer, tech, or caption head Scott Johnson has been with BD for EVERY one of their full corps championships and everyone of their percussion titles...(1976 - present day). And when ScoJo was at Vanguard he won a percussion title with them. Safe to say he knows what he is doing.
There’s no denying the talent of those kids. But if bd is always on top, I wish they would take it further by making shows that connect with audiences musically and visually. And not just clean! I think people wouldn’t hate so much if they pushed the boundaries
Interesting opinion. A lot of people dislike BD because they have pushed TOO MANY boundaries over the last 2 decades. The activity has changed so much and BD represents a lot of the change to a lot of people.
When a corps beats BD it’s because they’ve pushed the boundaries, and their show ends up changing DCI as a sport. Bloo 2016, Crown 2013, and Phantom 2008 are good examples. Maybe Star 1991, but BD was a very different corps musically at that point. Try comparing BD 1994 to BD 2017.
We've seen this in almost every activity and its fans. The loud minority gets even louder and it's only going to increase as we get more and more connected to each other online
What’s the problem with diverse opinions? It’s kinda like there’s free speech here in the US. Or, are you saying that there are people that have opinions you don’t like, and that’s not allowed. If that’s the case, the old adage “opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink” would certainly apply to what you’re saying. Or, you’re an extreme communist and the communist zeitgeist must never be questioned. All of these things are BAD. The only way to truly advance anything is to have different ideas. What if people told Alexander Graham Bell that no one would ever want a telephone?
I think they deserve all of the accolades/praise they receive. Undoubtedly the strongest corp in terms of consistently producing the cleanest and technically impressive shows in the activity. that being said, damn I wish that they would take their technical proficiency and be more creative with their show concepts. Imagine a Blue devils show with all of the musical and visual polish they bring to the table, but with all of the innovation, creativity, and depth that corps like Bluecoats/BAC/Crown experiment with.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your statements here. Blue Devils is a consistent technical masterpiece with highly skilled members but I RARELY like their musical selections. And can we stop with the screechy Blue Devil trumpet parts? Lol. I used to love the Blue Devils in the 80's, but now, I wouldn't go to see them even if they were at a free venue. 🤮
The difference between me and most people that harp on the blue devils is that I fully admit that they are the best. I'm just kinda annoyed that they're so far ahead of every other group most years that there's just hardly competition or cliffhangers at finals. Also I do think that while many corps are guilty of repetitiveness, I think the blue devils are some of the heaviest offenders purely because their repetitiveness is the most noticeable. It actually took me a while to pick up on the bluecoats style change you mentioned because it blends so well into the music in general and has its own year to year twists (except for the tubas playing that one line from tilt, they do it almost every single year and its getting stale), and as you showed with the drumline, BD just kinda straight up reuses runs. I also think the opening with the guitar this year is VERY similar stylistically to the 2022 opening, which is honestly my only gripe about the show this year. Overall not a huge BD hater, I just like good underdog stories and hate that BD makes it so hard for those to happen 😭
Interesting that you say you like good underdog stories. On our first national tour in '73 we were beat by MANY corps, including the Audobon Bon Bon Girls. WE were the underdog in '74, moving up from 24th to 9th, being called "The Cinderella Corps". And, with respect to reusing shows ... I played "Legend of the One Eyed Sailor" in '74, '75, '76, and '78! How many times did 27th play "Danny Boy"? How many times did Troopers play "How the West was Won"? Same stuff, different century!
@@jeffdemello1946 Interesting to hear that, I'm sure the underdog seasons for BD were awesome to experience and very entertaining. However, I've had a totally different experience with drum corps than you have considering the age gap between us, and for the entire time I've been into DCI the blue devils have been an unstoppable gold medal machine. I will not deny the personal bias against how dominants the blue devils have been growing up influences my opinions of BD and their performances.
@@jeffdemello19461973 was 50 years ago. they may have been underdogs back then, and that’s a great story, but the fact of the matter is that they’re NOT underdogs anymore. that’s like dismissing people who hated the patriots dynasty by saying that they were bad before tom brady was there.
Yeah, BD dominance hurts drumcore as a whole. Its like the NFL before the spending cap. Now its much more interesting, but could you imagine a DCI draft?
@@brettgoldsmith9971 a dci draft would actually suck and ruin the activity forever. Worst possible solution to what is in reality, a hardly problematic scenario.
I was a Grade-A Blue Devils hater last year, this year I'm choosing not to be. I still have some gripes with some design decisions in Tempus Blue, but that show absolutely deserved to win and didn't deserve the amount of hate thrown at it (from me too). Same with this year. I love The Cutouts a lot more than I did Tempus Blue. This show is insanely entertaining, as well as very cleverly designed. If BD wins this year, they absolutely deserve it. And they'd secure their first Three-peat! (although haters will put a big asterisk on it cause of 2020 and 2021). Glad I can watch this video and laugh along rather than being heated for no reason whatsoever (like last year lmfao)
I understand the feeling of constantly seeing the same group winning and feeling angry. This fall/winter season will be my last year in HS band. My high school doesn’t necessarily have the best funding provided for the activity so we have always been very limited. It always sucked seeing the same HighSchools winning who were usually ones with the most elaborate show designs and most expensive props. However, I had to realize that it’s not about how good everyone else’s show is but how good my own HighSchools show. Getting caught up in whoever’s winning doesn’t allow you to fully seek to perfect your own craft, especially in an activity like Marching band.
My HS has been doing band for awhile but our guard is only about a year old and pretty underfunded- I started during winterguard season and honestly seeing the difference in our budget compared all the other schools is kinda disheartening lol
My HS has had very spread out victories throughout the years. They founded the marching band in the 1990s, and had their first win in 2003. I think there was a 3 year victory streak and won again in 2007, 2011, 2014, 2017, and 2022. The thing is though, when we didn't win, it was almost always the same school with a winning streak intermittently broken by us and maybe 2 other schools. Indoor program doesn't stand a chance compared to outdoor.
My kids high school band won grand champion at 2 out of 3 competitions this past year. They lost the third one by 0.1 points. There is nothing that you can say to make me believe that the judges were not biased and did not want to see the same band win out the competition season.
I think BD is simply just on another level from other corps in terms of an execution standpoint. How many times have other corps have a good show idea but when it’s put on the field it sorta just falls flat
BD plays hard, I always tell my friends that each corps has its own identity. Doesn't matter if they win all the time, they simply throw down hard. Props to them for taking gold most of the time, it's entertaining to see other corps giving them a run for their money. I got nothing but love for other groups because I'm a diehard Bloo fan but I love seeing others succeed too
I was a hater before I was a fan, and looking back, a lot of it was just from having not marched corps before. My first season, playing euph at Genesis in 17', I was a great player but the visual demands of drum corps hit me like a truck, and seeing how effortlessly the Blue Devils moved on the field during that time gave me something to appreciate and strive for. I was also moved by their atmosphere, seeing someone tick in the lot, laugh it off with his buddies, and fix it, whereas I experienced so much hostility from members and staff that I had several breakdowns on tour. I still have chronic knee pain from pushing through an injury to keep my spot. BD is obviously known within the activity for being more informal and marching well, but visual isn't on most band kids' radar in the same way as other captions like brass or percussion, and neither are other critical aspects like member culture and experience. There's also a lot of popular opinion bias in favor of the underdog, which in this context, means anyone who isn't BD. From the outside, the top 6 seems like an even playing field every year, and a corps consistently winning must be the result of unfair judging. I distinctly remember my opinion changed when I saw data on the average member age and prior experience of various corps, and BD was 3.5 years experience and 20.5 years old, whereas the next closest was something like 2 and 19. Knowing that, it's more surprising that they don't win every year. It's also hard to really know a group until you've spent time with them out of uniform. I auditioned in '19 and during both the satellite and callback round, I genuinely had no idea who would/wouldn't make the cut just because of the sheer volume of incredibly talented and experienced people trying to age out there. A corps with that much draw must be doing things right. (I ended up with BK in '19 and '21 and had a great experience) Looking back on the activity, I have my criticisms of BD just like any organization, but overall I hold them in high regard, and I'd rather have my students look up to them rather than the myriad of corps that starve their members and harbor abusers.
Thank you for addressing this, Everett! Y’know one problem is the BD hate seems to come from people who’ve never heard them live, but every time I hear their brass and watch them, I can’t not smile. It’s def a different experience in person. Also, people don’t always have a grasp at how judges work. They don’t think about the shows before the performance and they have very specific content to look for, like teachers grading papers. But overall, I’m glad to have such an exceptional and experimental corps be the example and push the limits of this engaging activity. (Trying to be an objective voice btw:)
As a crownie I can definitely agree. I don't always think they deserve the win, but when i saw them live in Atlanta last year was the first time I realized they were gonna be hard to beat. Even though I'm still not sure Tempus deserved the win (crown didn't either), it really was an incredible show!
personally, i'm kinda the opposite. i'm not necessarily a hater but i'm not super impressed with this year's show, they're obviously insane performers but as far as the material i just don't think this year is a particularly interesting show, but also tbf i haven't been following drum corps for that long so what do i know
My only real gripe with the corps is that the designs don't always hit the emotional check points. The kids are undoubtedly great! I just don't always connect with what they do. This current season though is different as I thoroughly enjoy the show and am loving everything they are putting out there. As art and entertainment is a very subjective the design misses are bound to happen. But I have found that to be with not just BD (who remembers the really weird BK years? some of those weird madison shows? phantom trying to reidentify themselves?) but I do have a higher count of it with Devs. Ironically a lot of the Blue Devils shows I sadly tend to be entertained by end up getting 2nd (ReWrite of Spring is a banger and The 2011 House show) save for 2014 and (possibly) this year. Every corps does have their niche style and design gimmicks. I think it also is that BD tends to be a victim of their own success. They can and have done shows concepts dealing with just about anything artistically and perform the snot out of it.....but what was it? There is a saying in film "show me don't tell me" and I think that is where Devs lose a lot of folks with their designs and also speaks to some of my favorite Devs shows. If I have to do extra research on your concept then you lose me. Take 2011 for example. It was a show easy enough for you to grasp just with the title whereas Tempus Blue was.....what was it about that the title gave away to? Felliniesque made sense to those who knew Federico Fellini because not much research was needed if you were raised on his films. With Devs I think we always expect more but that is possibly on us. I remember having my young mind demolished by Scott Dean and the 03-04 corps. But you can't always do the Phenomenon of Summer Train Cool. Long winded post. Love the content and hope to see you with whomever you're teaching this fall at a show! Saw and "judged" your school at a rained out band show last fall.
Let me give you some perspective from more time in the activity. People have been whining about getting beat by the Blue Devils since the late '70s. And I certainly have no dog in the fight, nor do I have any association at all with the corps. The Blue Devils win for one reason: They consistently field a better rehearsed corps, with near flawless design and musical book. Their fundamentals are scary good, consistently, for at least the past forty years. Their arrangements, all the way back to Jim Ott and Wayne Downey, are consistently on-point. In fact, the few times they've been beaten always have a theme. The Blue Devils get beat when someone out-innovates them, and happens to make some kind of visual (usually) advancement that leaves BD looking a bit behind the curve. But the second part of that theme is that they get beaten only when someone jumps ahead on innovation, AND manages to get it as polished (or in some cases, very nearly as polished) as BD. They've always been loud. Even back in '80 when I was marching, they were consistently loud and in tune. In the early Spirit of Atlanta years, Jim Ott took the job as brass instructor there, and one of their trademarks was being essentially louder than ANYONE. But they only achieved that by playing with a lot of distortion, just more against the boundary of reasonable brass tone than the Blue Devils were willing to push. And that was relatively short lived...by 1981, Spirit was no longer scoring in the top six in brass. But I digress. The activity won't be benefited by someone else winning instead of Blue Devils, unless they actually BEAT the Blue Devils. The idea that judges are in the tank for BD is just dumb. Judges have it out for BD. It's the opposite. No judge is going to give away numbers to BD.
I see a lot of BD hate on my TikTok posts. I have been kinda lax about it in the past, making comments every so often calling them out for being unnecessarily harsh. I’m not tolerating it at all anymore. Thanks for the video! Always been a big fan of BD!
To be honest, I love ALL of y’all’s content and just want more in general. If that means more podcasts, reactions, discussions on aspects of DCI, or literally anything. More of these kinds of videos is definitely wanted! I am addicted to your content and keep rewatching old videos to hold me off until the next one so this was a welcome surprise!
You showcased the motifs used by other corps like crown and the coats and really it’s as simple as I prefer those motifs over the ones BD uses. I simply just don’t like the devils design, its just my opinion. Every once in a while I find myself enjoying a BD show, but usually they are just not in my taste. I don’t really care if they win or not, I’m not obsessed with scores. I like what I like and that’s all that really matters to me. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t care about determining what is “objectively” better, it’s art after all and if I’m going to rewatch a show 9 times out of 10 it’s not going to be the devils.
Great video with lots of insight! I appreciate the research and objectiveness of this video. After seeing them live I wouldn’t consider myself an active fan of the blue devils (there’s shows I like) but I definitely appreciate what they do more after seeing them live and I look forward to it again this year. I think the loudest voices haven’t heard BD live and tried to appreciate what they’re doing.
I remember several years ago. I went to a local regional show to watch. When BD was announced as 1st place. About 1/2 of the audience booed the result. I think BD has become the polarizing group.
My respectful rebuttal: From online videos I've seen that chronicle a summer with the Blue Devils (maybe they were old banquet videos??) to having a family member march (and win) with them, it appears from the outside that BD expects to win every year and are severely disappointed in the rare cases when it doesn't happen. What else other than design and performance would give them that expectation? I've never thought that they bribed judges or designed specifically to win, but their very experienced and coordinated staff knows what the corps will get credit for and what they won't. Does that mean they're writing to win? Not necessarily, but I would argue that they're writing with the numbers in mind and not so much the audience. I know some previous BD staff and (most of them) have been super cool, but I don't know them that well. Maybe I'm wrong. My perspective: BD is almost always the cleanest corps on the field. When another corps wins, its usually down to overall GE score, as was the case in 2016. IMHO, Generel Effect, for better or worse, often correlates with how the general audience enjoys that corps that year. As for the money, when my family member marched, they claimed tour fees were lower than any other corps. The cost of touring isn't ever going down, so the corps must have enough money to offset that low tour fee. That's neither here or there, just an observation. But when your corps has a reputation for low tour fees, smoother tour, getting work done faster and winning year after year, thats a huge recruiting tool! Isn't that how Star attracted so much talent back in the day (aside from the winning part which happened later)? Now you're recruiting the best and most experienced players. I suspect that its rare to find a BD rookie who doesn't already have some DCI experience (yes, we all know about that one young snare player). That's how money affects the corps. So...3 cheers for their fundraising! You don't think financial struggles affect the top 5 as much as the corps on the other end of the spectrum? What about SCV? I appreciate what you said about repeated music. Though, I think repeating a formula is a bit more forgivable than repeating note-for-note passages (unless you're doing some sort of intentionally nostalgic show). As for "tired of seeing them win"....yeah, I'm guilty of that. But I marched in the early 00s and we all know who was doing all the winning then. Cavies of that era were definitely guilty of repeating melodic lines, using similar visual motifs and beating lydian mode into the ground (especially when they were using original music). But...I still enjoyed them more than BD. That's subjective, sure. But I don't know anyone outside of BD who was ever disappointed when Cavies won. ...okay, Cadets 2000 were probably disappointed. They should have won. Ties suck (go 99 SCV!). There I said it.
Thanks for the response! From my experience as a Blue Devil, we did not expect to win year after year. Instead I felt more of a personal pressure to be great and live up to the Blue Devil name. As for the staff, if you hear any of them talk about their design process, I think it will become quickly evident that they are artists that truly aren’t thinking about score sheets. Check out Inside BD360 to see interviews about this. As for SCV, I think there was some really terrible management going on and maybe even some shady stuff that led to their collapse this season. I don’t think it was that they just couldn’t find the funds.
I've been going to Blue Devils rehearsals for about 10 years. When I go to those rehearsals, I've seen the same staff. Compare this to a middle school or high school band program that has a revolving door of band directors compared to a school band that has a tenured director that's been there at least 5 years plus. There's a big difference when there's consistent staff. Or a music college that has tenured faculty compared to a majority part time faculty that's always changing. Students will go to where there's a reputation.
I agree with others that perhaps the biggest difficulty watching BD is understanding the show. BD can include lots of thematic material, but if it requires familiarity with outside material, it can seem entirely random to those who lack such familiarity. This is especially detrimental for shows that rely on knowledge outside of the mainstream, like the filmography of Fellini or the Dada art movement. On one hand, it's good to be exposed to new things, and detailed explainers can help with that. But on the other hand, it is nice to have some understanding of a show just from it's own design, ideally on the first viewing. The same can also apply to music and drill (consider the comprehensibility of Cavies drill in the aughts to BD drill). I think this also feeds into not understanding the scoring. It's easy to want one's favorite show design to win, but that could easily take too much control of the results from the performers and it into the hands of the creative staff, which certainly wouldn't be good for those who march.
Being the best means you are going to attract the best. This means staff, brass, percussion, and color guard. I marched BD in the late 80's. Uniforms and music have changed since then, but the base corps is the same. Keep winning BD!!!
Bravo! Completely agree. In regards to your comment about bringing back music from past years, this was a very common thing in the 70s and 80s. In fact fans loved it in those days when a corps would reprise a fan favorite. This is a different era for sure but I don't have a problem with the occasional reprise if used well. We should be celebrating the excellent of the Blue Devils, even if we are rooting for another corps to challenge them.
Love this content! Thanks for giving your perspective on BD. I’m a complete outsider to DCI and an impartial as to who wins, I just love good shows. It really surprised me when I came across all the BD hate in comments. But, people always gonna hate the winners. Just keep doing your thing BD!
I’ve been following the DCI corps for 50 years. A lot has changed and the Blue Devils are an incredible music machine with a massive amount of ressources and trained musicians in their early teens. It’s a great way of forming young adults and team work. I believe This year will be Devils, Crusaders and Mandarins (with quite a few Santa Clara performers ;). My prefered are Crown. Keep on marching!
Really really good video! I myself was a blue devils not hater but complainer lol. It took a while but I've come to realize that every corps has their "thing" and I should appreciate them and the activity no matter who wins
I love this video so much, talking about dci culture and stuff always makes me feel like I’m getting too into it and people aren’t interested so it’s very refreshing to see a video like this. I love the devils and have loved them since I’ve heard of them, seen their shows, and even more so when I saw in person and it bugged me when people made unsupported comments. Anyways, Great video Everett, from a dci lover, trumpet player, and hopefully future blue devil.
I respect the blue devils, the way they treat their performers is top tier and the way they carry themselves is professional. The thing I hate is the constant reuse of phrases and licks in the battery's book. They have a tendency to reuse licks in phrases and it just feels stale. First noticed it in 2018 when they used a bunch of the phrases from the ender of 2017 and the opener of 2017. Then I noticed 2019 did the same thing with both 2018 and 2017. Even tho I'd admit the 2019 line was a much more fun line and I did enjoy it. But 2022's line really did it for me. There was so much that was reused or remixed that I really couldn't stand by it. I get that it was a throwback year, but it was still very irritating to me. I wanted something new, I wanted to see something I haven't seen bd do. And this year, I'm still seeing phrases from 2017 being used. Like the groove out section right after the trombone feature, that section is still being used, it's been used every year since 2017 if I remember correctly and please correct if I remembered wrong. I don't have much of a day for the other sections. I actually love BD's color guard. Their horn line is honestly amazing. But it's just the reuse of phrases and licks that just really tick me off. They are clean, but it's easy to clean phrases you've been using for 4 years. I remember hearing someone complain about the same thing after 2007 but I can't verify that. Do I think BD deserves the wins they get? To be honest, my mind says they do but I really just want another corps to win. I'm hoping for that Boston win. But knowing scoring and judging, they won't win, it'll be BD again and I'll be disappointed again. I guess I have my own personal biases when it comes to bd, idk. Here's my rant lol.
It’s true there are repeated kicks year after year. Not sure which 2017 lick you’re talking about, but this is not a bad take. Although BD’s drumline book is very refreshing in my opinion and I am a big fan.
@@funlinerproductions7071did you hear about the news with the center quad? Dude that's some devastating news for BD. I feel bad. No one should have to deal with that
The point is BD stands still for the difficult parts. The color guard also does most of the "demanding" work while standing still. DCI needs to also be willing to award variety. Sorry, BD has used the same formula since I marched and taught in 1990 - today.
Carolina crown stands still for the most difficult parts of their book too. Sorry, but this is the formula that all corps use. Watch Crowns show this year and both the hardest sections in the book are standing still.
I think most of your points are valid. I think a lot of the identity stuff is just common to all corps and it has always been. I think BD has amazing performers. All top notch. But when I watch their shows (and any show) I want the music to be coherent and it just isn't to me. Musical phrases are short and ideas are very rarely carried across the show. It is just stream of consciousness content with visuals. The last show I saw that I really liked by BD was 2013, which ironically, fits their style. Stravinsky uses juxtaposition to mash together competing ideas. Anyway, the judging currently has no interest in penalizing this design choice. If you don't play and sustain musical phrases, to me, you should be docked on Music. You just should. Take 2015. Crown comes out and plays and absolute bear of a book, where musical ideas must be sustained more than 20 bars each. Devils play 10 seconds of Sweeny Todd, and 10-20 seconds of other random things, and score basically the same for music and general effect. Now I get that the average fan doesn't always get great shows (Star 93), but music is an important element in the activy, and from a design perspective, BD just puts an inferior product in the field every year.
I actually think that BD’s 2012 show was truly a fantastic show despite not totally understanding it when I marched. Felt the same about through a glass darkly in 2010. They are exploring some really amazing artistic concepts in many cases, and they introduce people to some amazing musical and programmatic concepts. Felleniesque was a masterpiece in that respect.
GREAT VIDEO!! Old fart here! That little formula with Blue Devils' visual ballads...you might want to go as far back as 1989 (the year I matched). 😁 And guess who was writing the drill then? 😃
i really appreciated this video! i really believe that the BD “hate” can ultimately boil down to a very subjective dislike of their visual and musical identity, which is FAIR. regardless of if im a fan or not, BD have a clear and strong identity, and thats a beautiful thing that everyone should be grateful for and that every group should strive for.
valid points in the video but tbh its not that i don’t like bd, i actually like them. they put out really good shows, but there are certain years specifically last year where i just think another show was way better. Like riffs and revelations is definitely my favorite show ever in front of phantoms harmonic journey
I've never been the biggest fan of the Blue Devils, but that's because I'm just not super drawn to their styles of show and music (though there are some exceptions of course). However, I have never understood the people who sit around and harp on BD parking and barking, never doing hard stuff, paying judges etc. That narrative is just dumb. Do I personally think the gap between BD and Bluecoats seemed too big last season? Sure, but you can't deny their quality. They are the best in the world at putting their specific performers in places to succeed, and I think that can come across as "easy". They really are just so good that they make things "look" easy. I'll never be a diehard BD fan but I have definitely grown to respect the skill of their performers, and their consistency year to year is undeniably great.
I wrote an annoyed comment last year at this channel of BD alums salivating at another BD win, which of course, manifested to no one's surprise. I'm glad you're addressing this, as once again we're looking at the same outcome for 2023 and beyond. At the beginning, you hint at the real issue here which has nothing to do with BD, one of the all-time greats, but their affect on the drum corps activity as THE all time great. You proceed to knock down straw man arguments about the corps themselves, and even agree with a few of them (for example music played in past years). While I think the style of show issue boils down to it being a bit the same and a boring the last like 15-20 years, this likely has more to do than anything with Scott Chandler's vision of design. It's a winning formula, and you'd have to be crazy to change it when it continues to work and win either silver or gold every year. His vision seems to boil down to a collaboration between a visual artist either painting or movie, or a concept, by which both the visual and musical elements are an interpretation of that artist or art concept. If arguing against it, you find quickly find yourself talking art, with all the pitfalls of such a discussion. I can only imagine the refuge this must be at judge's critique, to be able to put forth this emperor's new clothes arguments over design concept to give that tiny edge over other top corps. All that criticism of BD and its organization is not the point and overlooks the problem, which is that: No other competitive sport or activity in history has this much dominance by one group. What can be done about it? Nothing. It's not like a sport with a draft lottery, no one (except staff) gets paid. We've also gone further and further away from the moment, or the show, defining the outcome- look at how the caption awards are averaged over three nights. Or how evenly the scores now gradually increase for all corps, with few surprises. Blue Devils dominance was probably inevitable, but it doesn't make it any less sad for the present and future of the drum corps activity.
Great Video!! The haters have been hating for years now. I marched 99-01 and we were hated on back then for all the same “reasons”, but the corp has always pushed the activity through the growth of their own creativity! What an amazing design team and organization over all!
Great comments, very good post. When you are the benchmark of any sport you are liked and hated. The haters will always try and find excuses to bring you down instead of just saying your good and we are coming back at you next year. My Cowboys are hated even when they are not good. Jealousy gets you nowhere give credit when do and move on.
Love the "park and bark" claims from older fans when they immediately turn around and say the 70s and 80s (where the entire show was park and bark) were better than today's shows
That's not at all true. Take another look at some 80s shows like BD 82, SCV 83 or Cadets 84 or SCV 89 - these are not at all 'park and bark', though there still were concert numbers in the 82 and 83 shows.
Very well made. I do find myself gettiing tired of the Blue Devils winning, but I would be hard pressed to say that they are not very good at what they do.
The consistency in staff from year to year is undoubtedly a big factor that adds to the same ish feel every year. The Blue Devils design process also lends itself to a similar feel every year, wherein there is always SO MUCH happening on the field at once that you get the same sense of somewhat sensory overload every year. I admire the process and the skill required to pull it off, however sometimes I feel like the show doesn't always read so well.
This. Bluecoats has found top 3 success through a very long journey with some fairly consistent design team members. They found a formula that worked for them in 2013. We really recognized it as fans in 2014 with Tilt, but the design staff count 2013 as the year something clicked differently for them and they’ve built on that.
Been a fan of BD since 1993 and the last handful of years see these kind of random comments has been a weird thing that I mostly just laugh at. I get rooting for your favorite corps, never understood hating other corps. I was always excited to see all the corps I could. Didn’t necessarily want some other corps to win but always wanted to see a good show and if they happened to win and beat the Devs then all the power to them and congrats to them.
As someone who has marched BD, as well as worked in the industry, the one thing I have not seen in the comments regarding BD, which is of very high importance, is the time the staff have worked together. Many Corps, have a change in staff year after year, where the BD "Team" especially the core team have been together for decades. Even so far as working together way back at Clovis West H.S. in the early 90's, and Logan H.S. in the 2000's. This is a team sport and the Core BD design team has worked together for such a long time one should expect this level of insane design and concept. They have had lots of practice as a team and the Championship shows produced show that. The team knows how to work together and get things done. I remember in 1998, watching the design team "not talk to each other" and get things done. They just knew what needed to be done/fixed/changed after a run. The box would say their piece then say, "Field!! Hey Scott", Scott would hold up a hand with thumbs up, not even waiting for whatever the box had to say he knew already. This happens a lot. They all just know, it's kinda creepy. The synergy they have is scary tight and they are all on the same page. The video talked about that to a point. This comment does not discount any other long running staff from other Corps, but the BD team has a huge group, the main core instruction and design group, that have been together a really really long time as compared to other design teams. When you have team members on staff that know what each other are thinking, you can produce a strong show that works. It starts with the staff working together, getting along, knowing what to expect and that trickles down to the performers. Now the performers are the other key. How many in the marching world have heard people say they aged out at BD. A lot of BD performers marched other places before coming to BD either for age out or maybe their last couple years in the activity. They come to BD at what one can consider their best. Love it or not BD pulls some the best performers from around the world given their draw power. You have a really good change of getting a ring. So BD has a long tenure core group of staff working with performers that they can cherry pick the best of. Both these things give BD an edge. Again, let's not forget the performers in BD. Lot's of "age out at BD" cut outs (wink) from other corps going to BD when at the top of their game. Better performers can make or break a group.
I think that the BD staff designs shows at a level that challenges the corps in such a way that if they execute it, they have a real good chance of winning a championship.
I enjoyed this a lot. I understand being Blue Devils alumni things can appear to have bias. I think this video eliminates that and shows how much you respect all corps.
Lol as a former BD hater (hate used VERY LIGHTLY) turned fan, this is a great video that breaks down that they aren’t very different from any other corps
I remember hating on The Blue Devils. I remember loving them being my introduction to DCI, actually. But over the years it didn’t take long to find other shows I liked more than their shows. I filled my mind with thoughts like “Wow that drill looks amazing, why doesn’t BD do drill like that?” Or “Wow that brass line is on another level, why doesn’t BD sound that good?” But I feel like everyone goes through a phase of hating on anything they believe to be inferior. When I went into college I stopped listening to radio/pop music. “I’m above that..” I said. this behavior definitely changed as the years went on (heck we analyzed Taylor swift in a class..) I appreciate so much more in all types of music now. And now I listen to pop again lol Right now, while I don’t enjoy that they still win a lot, I have grown. I don’t compare them to other groups anymore. I appreciate the shows and feel good that my favorite group that year played their hearts out. They all won in their own way because they got the opportunity to live these precious moments and experience something not many others get to experience in their lives.
The issue I think people have with BD is that there were so many years where there were simply other better acts that didn’t win. Off the top of my head, 2007. Great show but compared to Phantom, Cavies and Cadets that year BD winning was just underwhelming. While I’m a musician and have only marched all age corps, it’s hard to look at the show from a judges perspective.
Thank you for this and taking the time to talk it through. I have been watching DCI since the late 80s and I have never enjoyed BD shows. But, a big thumbs up to their Music abilities and guard.
What I think about the Blue Devils is they don’t take very many risks when writing their shows. I feel like every year there’s a show that seems so much more creative and groundbreaking than Blue Devils, not to discredit them I still think they are creative, but it feels like there’s always a corp that’s just doing it better. I also feel like when thinking of Blue Devils shows there aren’t many big moments that you remember. For example if I ask you about Bluecoats 2014 you immediately think about the big hit at the end with the tone bend. Or Santa Clara 2018 you immediately think about that big hit after the ballad. I like the Blue Devils shows but I feel like there’s always a few shows that I think should’ve maybe been higher in GE. Because those BD kids can play their instruments, VERY WELL.
I'm not too much of a fan of the repetitive music but as a composer I know it's hard to make 100% original music, especially composing year after year and trying to constantly innovate. Also every single music genre let alone art form period has repetition. .000001% of art is truly original because of how far art goes back. Also, pretty much of the repetition in all corps were only a few measures of each of those shows. There are 12 more minutes of music that contains a lot more original music Also the Crown clips you used reminded me of the inside joke that Crown plays in the key of Bb a lot
To your point about reusing music, my percussion staff in highschool typically did that for like one passage each year as an Easter egg which I actually really enjoyed, but could definitely see how reusing whole arrangements gets old
ThE bLue dEviLs WriTe tO thE ScoResHeEts It's a competition where winning is entirely determined by the scoresheets so yes. Mostly every other corps does the same thing. Because it's a competition
This is one of the reasons there is a sub-culture movement in the marching band world to stop doing competitive marching band. Competition and art are antithetical at their core. Competition stifles creativity and, in my opinion, the foundational purpose of DCI is to innovate the activity of the marching arts and push those boundaries of what this art is and can be. Do other drum corps design their show with the scoresheets in mind? Sure. However… From an analytical perspective in regards to design, I would argue BD does it considerably more than most, if not every other corps. There’s a reason they win as much as they do. In simple terms, they design to highlight their strengths and to hide their weaknesses…not every corps does this. Most honestly don’t…at least not to the same degree that BD does. I personally find that there is a moral imperative for the members of the marching arts community that are looked towards for innovation to actually be innovative. From that perspective, BDs design takes an amoral stance of “winning comes first” which I think is what people are so tired of.
With the Blue Devils, I think it's less about the "they always do X" or "the judges score them higher" or "they've got more money" or the like. It's simply that the organization has built the perfect machine, and when you do that and win too much, it becomes frustrating, and can damage the sport. It's akin to the New England Patriots of the first 15 years of the 2000s, or the Yankees of the 90s (though in that case, money WAS a factor). If you weren't a fan of those teams, you hated them. These organizations just built a system that created a steady stream of talent flowing in. BD has done the same. From within, their junior corps system goes down as far as 8 years old. By the time players go from Devils C to B to the main corps, these people are fully experienced with the system to know how things go, not to mention just being near pro-level. Once you establish that system and become a consistently high competitor, that means the appeal for top level players from outside the organization gives you the cream of the crop to pick from. So now you've got either people who have "grown up" in the system and know what to expect, or top level players who can adapt quicker than the average player. So there's less time needing to be spent on fundamentals, and more to be spent refining and tuning the show. As for the judging, there's a little bit of a case to be made here. Much like in MLB, where a well known ace pitcher is more likely to get the call on a tight corner than a younger or lower tier pitcher, I think BD does get some automatic bumps from judges, particularly in GE and Visuals (especially after chatting to someone connected with the overhaul of the judging done a few years ago who had some less than favorable comments about BD visuals scores). When you're judging a corps known for excellence, your brain starts on a higher base score. It's just human nature. Note: This year is also an exception as BD has some real drill rather than what the aforementioned person connected to the judging overhaul referred as their "wandering s**t" drill. This year, those visual scores are deserved. At the end of the day, while I do think the Blue Devils are doing a little damage to DCI with the constant winning, with a few exceptions, those wins were earned. And it's not the kids' faults. They auditioned, they made the corps, and they're just trying to do the best performance they can.
BD88 was the first DCI I ever saw and still a favorite. I knew as soon as I saw it that I had to march somewhere. I marched Bluecoats in 1991 and over the past decade and a half I've really reconnected with the activity (I've never fully stopped paying attention, just had more wherewithal to get to more shows). Last year, I marched with the Bluecoats Alumni Corps and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. So, Bluecoats is undoubtedly where my heart is. But I've never been a BD hater. At all. I've actually liked some of the shows some people didn't. That ballad in 2017 is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. I AM still a bit salty over 2019 though and that 0.085 margin and especially the way the announcer played with us announcing the winner. LOL... I legitimately felt the Bluecoats show that year was a truly special one and BD's was not one of their better ones. Oh well. LOL Anyway, having said all that, and as you said, with the activity getting so much more expensive every year, what do you think about the idea of phasing in some kind of spending caps? Corps would be free to spend their money on whatever within those limits - more props, nicer housing, whatever (with the obvious caveat they have to care for the kids properly). Has anything like this ever been discussed? Do you think it might bring a little more parity? Thanks for the great video. I didn't really need convinced on any of those points, but it was still cool to see you break them down.
I'm not sure if this still exist today, but when I marched (2011 & 2013 Blue Knights), a lot of members would march for a lower ranked corps for a few years, and then their last two years or age out year they would march with BD in search of a 1st place title. I think since BD has built up such a big reputation as a corps who wins, they naturally attract people and staff who want the same thing. So naturally if you have a bunch of people working hard together to work for the same goal, you're usually going to get the result that you want. That being said, I'm not saying other corps don't want/work for the same result, but having that consistency of having top notch experienced corps members and staff year after year pays off. Just like in any sport (Astros with Baseball; Chiefs with Football).
I definitely had some whiplash from this video popping up in my recommended page. Like, the Blue Devils are the name of my high school team/mascot, so I assumed it was something to do with that. But no, they’re not affiliated, half the US apart. Also the vague wording of the video made it hard for me to suss out what was being talked about so thanks for that.
You raise good points, but I'm still a vicious "Blue Devils Hater". For context, I've been a spectator of the activity since about 2011, when I was a teenager. Never had enough money to march in those precious years, sadly! But from more than a decade of keeping up with DCI, there are shows year after year that are more clean musically and visually, more creative and innovative to the activity, and most importantly, simply designed better than Blue Devils shows. BD's shows are designed with way too many things going on at once. Watching a live performance feels like the musical and visual representation of a stroke. As an audience member, there's a lot of WOW factor, don't get me wrong... but that's seemingly about it. There's not much of a story to follow, the musical selections seem to drift in and out randomly at times, and the shows seem to be more of a exhibition of musical execution and anti-musical drumline rudimental rams (can't only blame BD on this one, if I'm being honest...). Bluecoats 2022 had better execution, and more innovative design. Boston Crusaders 2022 had an absolutely killer show and performance, and insane drumline. Tempus Blue from a design standpoint couldn't hold a candle to either of those shows, but I guess the corps got bonus points for their 65th anniversary. I harbor absolutely NO ill-will or hatred towards the performers - (they're just doing what they're contracted to do, which is perform and be part of the activity, and they do a pretty damn good job at it!) - but I think where most people's frustrations come from is watching an underwhelming, "samey" show design win gold over better designed and more engaging shows.
Appreciate your response! I think what this really boils down to is this. You have your opinion on what is good drum corps and what is not. You have your opinion on what is clean and what is creative or good show design. And if you think the Blue Devils do not deserve some or a lot of their championships, that’s okay. The reality however is that your perspective of the activity is not the same as the majority of judges and educators in the community. Where you see a poorly designed show that’s not clean or demanding, the judges see a creative and well executed show across all captions. So all I have to say is that I urge you to try to figure out why this is. Often times the “vicious BD haters” have a preconceived idea about what the blue devils are that prevents them from actually being open to understanding why BD gets the credit that is consistently given to them by panels of highly experienced and knowledgeable members of the marching arts activity.
I used to be a HUGE bllue devils hater around 2017 because it honestly does get tiring to see them win so often, however I've realized that they simple preform their show better than the rest 9 times out of 10. I went to go see a live show with my mom and even she as a non drum corps fan was just in awe at how they sound. I will still root for the underdog but I acknowledge why they get the top spot.
Sorry, but my post is going to be infinitely long and, I hope, cohesive lol... First, good video. I'm glad to see it's been well received. And I get that the audience here is likely to be young, and you are too. That's not a knock. That's a great thing. But it lends to my initial point, which is that BD has been hated for nearly 50 years, not just the last 20. If anything, they've become less hated in the last 20-30 years than they used to be. Yes, I've been involved with drum corps and high school band activities for that long lol. And if ever there has been a marching organization to emulate from top to bottom, for all the best reasons, it's Blue Devils. The core of BD's staff has also been there for 50 years, many beginning as corps members. Yes, a bunch of old people who call you kids lol. But endearingly, and that's another point of BD's success. It's truly a family. BD has been a family-run organization throughout its entire existence, until recently. And that kind of love shows every day in everything they do. Seriously, how else would a bunch of grandparents get such amazing results out of kids?! By genuinely loving them like they're there own. Getting into practices with them and having fun too. Scott Chandler, who's been there since 1990, a "grandpa" lol, rolling around on the field with the kids! People can see that in BD's 360 videos. Year after year. That said, and to one of your main points, as the activity has progressed, I've seen BD become less and less hated over the last 20 years. I think this is likely due to the change away from bugles, which has made the activity more accessible to so many outstanding kids coming out of so many excellent high school programs, who can now be in a drum corps for 4 years during their college years. And they go all over the country, which I think has united the whole community better than it's ever been, because so many of the kids know each other or want to meet each other. Stuffy old traditionalists don't understand the change in instruments, so they don't like it, which is kind of ironic because it's people who marched with them who are leading the activity today. But the change was necessary and good, IMO. They'll get over it, maybe lol. But one thing that hasn't changed, though it's evolved, is the core of BD's staff, 50 years, though constantly being refreshed with past members, which also helps keep the organization excellent and fresh year after year, AND helps to keep its identity, which is a very impotant aspect of being a Blue Devil. And progressive! As ancient as I am, I'm progressive, and I've progressed with the activity Nothing "old school" about me. That said, there's still a place for old school references, and BD does that better than anyone. And over the last 20 years or so, it's been BD pushing the activity forward more than any corps, IMO, while never forgetting where it came from and how it got there, through old school references, and it all works amazingly well together. You mentioned 2012, and that's a good example of how BD has changed the activity at this point in time. One of the greatest and most unique shows in the history of DCI. Blew my mind at the first step, the first time I saw it, all the way through to the end. And they've kept pushing that improv style since then, although they'd been doing "improv" since the 90s. And they've developed and evolved that style. All corps have a style of their own. And like you said, all corps staffs know each other well and are friends. There are no shenanigans, at least, not in the last 20-30 years. Before that, maybe, but not BD, but because BD was so disliked. But the activity has become much more friendly than it was 30+ years ago. And judges know everyone too, so there's no way they could get away with playing favorites. Of course, rivalries exist and privately people take jabs at other corps, probably more at BD lol, and that's ok. Actually, from what I believe, BD is not only used to it, but it's expected and almost welcome lol. But when its to the extent where it's just plain mean, nobody should do that to any corps. If you don't like an organization, taking it out on the kids is terrible. But like I said, the activity has become such a community throughout the last 20-30 years that such hatred is far less present than it's ever been. As for BD winning so much, it keeps the challenge and pursuit of excellence and progression alive in the activity among all corps. If BD wasn't there, yes, people might rejoice at first, but then people would feel the loss, because BD has always been a measuring stick. The corps, the staff, the organization, all of it. Drum corps wouldn't be better without them, IMO. Disclaimer, hard as it might be to believe, if anyone has gotten this far lol... I'm not and have never been affliated with BD. But I've been a fan of everything the organization is about since my school days, where I was in a similarly run, similarly successful, and similarly disliked lol high school band, full of great nice kids, just like all bands and drum corps have always been. But in the 70s, that kind of excellence for a high school band was so different that people didn't get it, so it was assumed we were evil lol. So I know and understand everything BD has had to deal with for half a century, which is probably how long it took to read all of this! And several of my classmates have helped with the evolution of the marching arts activities throughout the last 50 years, and they're still involved. So, again, I get it. Anyway, sorry for the long post, but once I started, I couldn't stop! Good luck to everyone this season!
Thank you for this! Really appreciate hearing your perspective and find it really valuable. I like how you called the Blue Devils a measuring stick and I think that’s very true whether others like to admit that or not. But it does push the activity forward like you said.
I'm one of the 'mid old-schoolers'. I want to say the first time we saw a themed show that worked really well was SCV 1988 and 1989. Literally the same show both years, but 'An opera on the field' Cadets 1987, Phantom 2008, Cadets 2011, the Star of Indiana shows. Basically a full production with over the top GE. Most of the BD shows I can recall are huge songs, extremely well done, but not all related like a stage musical. I'd love to see what the Blue Devils would do with a stage production. They have always been know as Big Jazz and to stay with that theme makes it difficult to innovate styles - just do everything better and bigger and you have your formula to win.
I appreciate that you are trying to be good faith to address the criticism, but I still think there are holes in your logic that you overlooking. I will try and address your points one by one. 1. The park and bark. This is an older criticism that I believe applies less today, however going back to 2009 - 2015, this is very appropriate. In 2009 I believe I clocked BD as marching and playing for less than 2 min and when they did march and play together the step size was less than 8 to 5. Compared to the insane drill writing of Crown and Cadets in that era, it was crystal clear that the visual demand for BD was significantly less. I also personally had a critique of the drill never incorporating the contra section into the drill. I think there were changes in who was writing drill in the mid 2010s and some of that criticism is less valid today. Also other corps have moved towards BDs visual philosophy so the amount of time marching and playing has gone down across the board over the past 15 years. But even you say that BD does have have drill writers or dot books. To some people that whole philosophy is anathema to what drum corps is supposed to be. 2. Paying the judges. I believe this is a straw man argument. No reasonable person believes that there is bribery in the judging community. At the same time, there are judges that if you see them on the finals panel, you know BD is getting a max score no matter what. (*cough* Chumley *cough*) When it comes to designing to the sheets, you have a valid argument. BD makes the art they want to make. Its just that a large a growing part of the audience does not like that art. I cannot stand the aesthetic of Scott Chandler. At the same time, I can see how those esoteric shows can make a very fulfilling member experience. It seems that the more straight forward shows are the ones the BD loses, so its natural to keep going to what brings you success. But then you become a theatre who just does shows by Mamet or Durang. Doing art for yourself, is not doing art to engage and entertain an audience. 3. Money. Yes this is a huge advantage. However its not the props or instruments or electronics that give the advantage. Its the member experience. One of the reasons a corps like BD becomes a destination corps is because of the idea that tour life will be easier. BD gets closer housing sites, so there is less travel from housing sites to show. They get later gates so there is more floor time and rehearsal time. I would bet the food choices are also better. This is not a recent phenomena. Back in the 90s when I marched, it was legend how much better tour was for BD. 4. Metamorph17. You are correct that corps will fall into their own tropes. The only difference is that judges seem to reward BDs tropes over the other top corps. Whether it be the side to side shimmy, the body movement that swirls into a tight clump. The drum set feature. The staging shift among others, BD does do a lot of the same things. However as a champion, they play it safe. Also nothing that BD does visually is as iconic as the leg kick or the Z pull. The only things that are unequivocally BD are the arms out posture and the shimmy. Think of the last 3 champions that were not BD. I think what they tried next year was not the same old same old, but an evolution of what they were trying to do. In 2014 Crown had those trampolines and even though they reused some of the same devices, I think besides Rach Star, it was their most out of formula show. In 2017 Bluecoats came out with the largest set piece in DCI history and music from an experimental rock band. In 2019 SCV, well they tried. However I think it was still an evolution of 2018. I also think that constantly going back to music feeds into the playing it safe narrative. In the end, I do not think there is a huge difference in the talent or execution of the top 4 corps. So why does one corps win 40% of every championship ever and 60% of the championships in the past 15 years? Its frustrating when I see a show like Bluecoats 2019, which is one of my favorite shows of all time and it loses to a show that does not connect with me at all. There was a time where BD was my favorite corps. 1993 BD is what brought me into Drum Corps. 1994 is one of the best shows of all time. However a combination of fatigue and the inability to engage with their concepts has almost made me resent BD to the point if they win tonight in Broken Arrow, the season is over and I really do not care anymore to watch to the end.
Thank you for the comment! I recognize the park and bark criticism originated from an older time where it was more valid, but it has infiltrated into the current Rolodex of BD criticisms so I wanted to explain why that’s not valid in todays Blue Devils Paying the judges could be a straw man argument, but it also is probably the most common thing I see online. So I included in the video mostly for any young kids who just regurgitate this nonsense without knowing any better. And I preface this in the video too by recognizing that most people do not actually think this. As for saying the Blue Devils play it safe, I just disagree wholeheartedly. Just because BD isn’t bringing out the biggest prop on the field or using trampolines or changing the entire look of the uniforms doesn’t mean that they aren’t constantly innovating. It’s just not in those in your face ways. I will agree that reusing music IS safe and I mention that I have a problem with that in the video. But the design staff is always grinding to create art that pushes the boundaries in THEIR perspective of the activity. That just doesn’t resonate or come across to a lot of people sometimes. What’s sad to me is that you say if BD wins Broken Arrow tonight, you will just not care anymore. That to me is a lot of the mentality of negativity that brings down the activity as a whole if you’re not even willing to give the Blue Devils show a chance. I understand the REASONS why but hopefully you watch their show tonight and enjoy it more than you thought.
@@funlinerproductions7071 thanks for the reply and I appreciate your thoughts! I guess the only question I have is how is BD not the theatre that only does Mamet and Durang? You need extensive knowledge of theatre and top notch performers to do those shows and from an experts point of view the shows will be masterpieces, but how does "The Actors Nightmare" or "Oleanna" resonate with broad audiences? Sure every once in a while you will get a "Glengarry Glen Ross" or a "Vanya & Sonia & Masha & Spike" but those are few and far between. I guess my point is that the BD design staff does innovate in their own way, but in a more esoteric and less inviting way. You can intellectually see the genius in what they do, but its been 20 years since a BD show has made me want to throw a baby.
I had heard that the top tier corps are able to snag the best horn players in the country because everyone wants to march with a winning corps. In other words, it is no longer just a regional effort but rather a well-orchestrated coordination across the country to get the best players. If this is true, it stands to reason that the top corps (and especially BD) would enjoy only the best players in the nation and many other corps would simply lose out on snagging these better players.
My main gripe with the blue devils is with the judges. I personally believe that the judges have an unintentional bias to where "oh its the blue devils do they must be good." An example i see is with drumline, imo Boston crusaders drumline has a more difficult book and plays it cleaner than blue devils, but blue devils drumline scores higher. I'd love to have a CIVIL DEBATE (not an argument) in the replies about this though.
Thanks for the response! I find this comment amusing only because you'd be surprised to know that a lot of judges have a bias AGAINST the Blue Devils if anything. When I was marching at the Blue Devils back in 2016 I remember being told once "don't give the judges even the tiniest excuse to call out any mistakes" because I think a lot of judges are also very aware of the consistent success of the Blue Devils. We were told that we had to be undeniable. As for Boston vs BD's drumline, I suggest you genuinely go try to learn a section from each book. I think you'll find a lot more when you examine both books carefully.
I’ve seen some awful comments this year. These are kids and young adults who are spectacularly talented and every one of them deserves to be there. All comments like paying judges, doing the same shows etc. takes away from the kids performing. They are the ones who bring forth the shows and light it up every year. No matter what corps you are talking about, remember these kids work their tushes off, going to bed late, getting up early, switching time zones in all types of weather and they still kill it on the field every year.
Another strong point of BD is their ability to adapt (especially the last decade or so). I remember in the "80's when BD was the "rebel corps". Always hard hitting jazz, clean ramming drum lines, and screeching sopranos in octaves even most pros found hard to hit. They had attitude no remorse or regret for being good, and most years, better than everyone else. I saw them in the "80's at Corps Encore in Utah. I did the in-the-lot thing way before it was popular. It was nice because it was just me, the staff, and the drumline, horns, or guard. Most of the staff (and others) though I was weird not to see the whole show I paid for. However, I wanted to find out what these groups (BD, SCV, and others) did to get better. Anyway, I remember seeing SCV get off their buses all in the same uniform, everything organized, and all of the sections together right away. BD got off the bus slowly, some of the members had their uniforms partially on, others in t-shirts, some with their cumberbunds on their heads, earrings with their championship rings dangling from them, It was just how good they knew they were. There were rumors in "86 they went bowling rather than practice because they were blowing everyone out of the water. They have changed a lot from those days. There was a period when they were not always winning ("87 to "93) but they adapted. Just as they have after the Bluecoats won in "16. BD changed the next year but still adapted it to the BD style, just adapted to what was the "current in thing." Many corps have a difficult time doing that. They are slow and by the time they get it, it has passed and something new has become the trend. Another thing with the judges that you talked about it the paying or "buying" for top scores. If that was the case, other corps would have won more and quicker. S of I had a lot more money than BD an they only won once. I am sure if you win a lot (like BD has) they are more apt to give you the benefit of doubt if something sounds off or like a tick. "Oh, they are a top corps. So, they probably meant to do that becomes a thought. However, if it continues then they, like anyone get deductions. So, BD like any top corps for a while, has some perks. Just like other things in life. Some other top corps have had some pretty bad productions but still made the top 12 because they are consistently on top. That only lasts for a while if they keep producing lack luster shows. I mentioned the people from other corps moving to BD (previous post), and other top corps too, after a year or more in another, less winning corps. This along with having a B and C corps give the advantage of experience in many areas including basics they do not have to teach everyone every year (saves time for other things to get better faster). They even have other directors, caption heads, and other staff leaving top positions to work with them. Winning a lot is addictive and why most people do drum corps. In the hopes of winning it all. If I join BD and win 2 of the 4 years I was there, that is pretty fulfilling and a lot more fun (not that other corps do not have fun and beneficial attributes). Yes, participation is nice and appreciation of others is good. Standing on the field at finals and hearing them call your corps out as the champions for that season is what the majority, if not 99.99% of the members is the ultimate goal for joining. I have rarely, if ever, hear someone in a championship corps say, "we shouldn't have won." You can hate BD all you want but it is DCI that makes the rules. BD just has the pattern figured out (for now) of how to consistently do that better than everyone else. I have not always been a huge BD fan but, you have to respect their attitude, ability to adjust, adapt, and win a lot. Maybe one say that will change but, probably not in the foreseeable future.
I will admit upfront, I haven't marched a full season yet. I had a contract with the Colts last summer but I wrecked myself right before spring training so I can't say any of this from a point of actual experince. But, what I will say is that from my friends that have/currently are marching, when you're in the activity scores matter little to none. I know very few people that are at their coprs because of where they placed in finals. The only people I know that care about scores are the people on DCP that never even went to an audition camp. Yeah, placement tracking is fun but if you're actually out there on the field you're main goal is to make the best show possible, the fact that judges are out there is largely irrelivant.
I felt like I was obligated to comment here cause I am the target audience cause up until COVID I was a huge BD hater but then I watched them in person. I saw Tempus Blue in Atlanta, first time seeing BD in person, we had a cooldown year and now coming back I was... mild. And I think that one thing I saw someone else comment on that has to do with it is the concept itself. These last two shows don't convey a story or a meaning like other corps' shows do. And a lot of people, musically or not musically intact, don't want to watch a show or even a movie for that matter if it doesn't mean anything in comparison to the last show they watched. And if you Have to explain your show or concept, then you didn't do your job when you created the show. So Joe Schmoe sees this show about a concept he's never heard of with music that doesn't seem to belong together and when they win... he becomes a BD hater.
Something that amuses me about this entire idea is that DCI used to never have show concepts. Corps had identities and that was about it. Scouts did latin, Spirit was loud, 27 was clean, Phantom didn't know how to play anything but classical, but show concepts didn't matter because everyone just played what they liked. Let's look at 1980 Crossmen (my mothers age out show, so it's very familiar). Pictures de Espana, Tiger of San Pedro. Spanish Fantasy, Jack Miraculous, all capped off with Superman standing there in his cape and leotard. I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure they where gonna play In the Stone but had the charts swiped by the Bridgemen, because those things could happen back then. The show didn't have a name, didn't have a story, it was all music that Crossmen enjoyed. And it's an AMAZING show. If you want further chaos, look at pretty much anything the Bridgemen did. They played a football game at the end of their show because it was fun (Alabama vs Auburn, finals were in Birmingham AL) and had a three ring circus before fighting the US Civil War. Point is, show concepts are something that evolved into DCI, and they could just as easily leave again if that's how things happen.
A great point. If a person who knows nothing about DCI came to a show, and you ask that person what did that show you saw mean to you? If you can't answer that question, then that person just saw "The Cutouts" The BD of the 80's and 90's did that, and that's what infuriates me when I see BD win another show....
I appreciate you're trying to address these criticisms with thoughtful rebuttals but the point of hating on teams is being irrational. Once you introduce any subjectivity to the competition it's only gonna compound the absurd speculation and conspiracy theories that people use to validate their opinions. The only way they stop hating is for BD to lose for a couple decades in a row
All great points-thanks. The assumption is if you’re winning year after year for decades you must be innovating in some crazy way that the other groups just can’t keep up with, and then you watch BD and it’s just a regular (tho very clean) DCI show-it never feels groundbreaking or extra unique. So people wonder why they keep winning when other corps are trying new ideas, breaking rules, and changing the game. That’s all-we’re all just victims of our assumptions about what makes a winning show
I feel like a lot of people also forget that if the Blue Devils actually decided to hold back just to let another drum corp win the gold medal, could you imagine how devastated the BD marchers would be knowing they spent a 4,000 dollar fortune on a management that purposely held them back? They’re not machines who march to win, they’re passionate, goofy college age people who simply want the best marching experience based of either reputation, or a past love for said corp, just like every other marcher in a separate corp. I don’t think they walk in and out only thinking about winning, the actual winning is something that just sort of……..happened one day and it kept going.
I think in a lot of their shows it can be really hard to see what their theme is from watching it. A lot of the time it requires a lot of research to understand what they're going for. Especially in 2012 and 2022. I think this is why people hate the Blue Devils, and is why they're almost never in my top 5 of the year. Though, everyone saying their visuals are easy can suck a dick. Their drill isn't physically difficult, i.e. running across the field for 10+ minutes, but it is difficult in the sense that they are making really complex forms that are hard to make cleanly. This is especially true in some of their follow the leader sets. I also think that the format Blue Devils use is more similar year after year than in a lot of other corps' formats. For example, a lot of the props in BD shows are similar, like the stairs in 17 and 22. They also utilize them in more or less the same way, like the chairs in 09, the props in 14, the stairs in 17, the stages in 19, and the stairs in 22. All of the props were abstract, were moved around the field a lot, and usually had a soloist or three on them. I don't think other corps use props in the exact same way year after year like BD does, although I haven't done much research, this is just from memory. Blue Devils also use a lot of the same choreo, music that sounds similar even if they haven't it before, and the same form of ballad every year. I believe this is why people say BD does the same show every year, even though it's not true. I do believe they have a format that makes each show seem more similar year after year than with other corps, and I also believe that they design their shows primarily to win, though they also take what their members think into account. This is pretty much the same situation as Star of Indiana back in the early 90's, just with different criticisms. In 91, people booed Star because they wanted Cavaliers to win, and they did not like that Star had a multi-millionaire as a director since that gave them a gigantic advantage. And tbf it DID give them a massive advantage, as they existed for less than ten years and got four consecutive top three finishes and a championship in that time. Another complaint was that Star had an ego bigger than Texas, which, as much as I like Star, WAS true. Star literally said DCI was constricting what they wanted to do, so they dipped after 93. However, now everyone looks at Star of Indiana from the years 1990-93 as this legendary corps that was decades ahead of its' time that was gone too soon. The BD situation is pretty much the same type of shit that was happening to Star in the 90s, just with different complaints. And that's a shame since I like a lot of BD's music, even if I don't think their shows are great apart from 17 and 23. Plus, if you look into the judging system of DCI, it makes complete sense why Blue Devils win nearly every year. The people saying the judges got it wrong are Bluecoats stans that are pissed that Bloo didn't win. Though, I will say I believe Crown should have won in 2015, so I'm also slightly hypocritical, but BD definitely deserves as much success as they get. Most people just don't know how the judging system works and thinks entertaining=1st place, when that isn't the case. BD trumps every other corps in terms of talent and execution, and most people don't get that.
Scott Chandler takes an art critic's approach to show design. To question the design turns into questioning art, and he can always say "to each their own."
Well constructed and unbiased video. Good watch. I used to be a “hater” persay but I think I just mostly am a fan of rooting for underdog corps every year. I think that’s the root of most peoples gripes.
As much as I’m tired of the winning all the time, he gets it as well, but when they win, it’s absolutely deserved! This years show is fantastic, and can’t wait to see it live!
Before social media - going back to the late 90’s - there were IRC and AOL chat rooms, technically still a “social” type of media. Then there was the DCP forums in the early 2000’s. I remember like it was yesterday the vitriol and hatred for BD on those platforms. Hatred that was disguised as “we don’t like their shows” or “they don’t do anything worthy of winning” when in reality the plain truth of the matter was and is that people just hate to see them win, so they invent reasons that don’t exist. And long before the internet you had the “Anyone But BD” haters going back to the beginning of their successes in the 70’s and 80’s. Haters and trolls have always been lurking. They just find new and louder places to make themselves feel important.
An interesting critique of historically high performing corps would be how show schedules impact sleep and rehearsal time for various corps. By consistently performing in the later time slots, top corps are afforded more time in the day to dedicate to rehearsal and rest for members. Obviously, this is not a massive impact but it could be a reason for less parity or mobility on the score sheets for corps that are lower in the standings.
I saw someone post BD's rehearsal day schedule as a point out to how they differ from others... one thing that's worth the noting (I think) is how placement in show lineups impact corps rehearsal schedule. Being on at 9pm vs 5pm leaves a fair bit of extra legroom to implement a more rest between blocks.
Yeah...but this time difference doesn't impact the corps that have the greatest chance to challenge Blue Devils. Boston Crusaders, Carolina Crown, and Bluecoats are also performing around 9pm...and yet...they just can't seem to beat them in the scores.
@bc022372 true. I surmise that what gives BD the edge is the long term consistency that they've had on all levels of their staff over the past 2+ decades. They dropped to 4th in 2005, and haven't placed lower than 2nd since 2006. From what I can tell, they've never had an "off year" and hit the "panic and change everything" button. And if they were to drop down the home stretch... they still wouldn't. They seem immune to the mass staffing fallouts and overhauls that other corps have been caught up in.
Okay for real though this is something I’ve noticed in the past 10ish years of corps finding their own “sound” or type of show design that becomes an integral part of their identity. BD is the obvious example…but I actually noticed this in the Bluecoats starting in 2013 where almost every single show to-date features some kind of Steve Reich-ish form of minimalism (with the repetition of a single 1-2 measure phrase being repeated and off-set through layering to create harmonies and development using the exact same material). Literally ever single show has this that they design now and has become an integral part of their identity and overall “sound.” I noticed this because I’m a composer and I studied minimalism and many bluecoats shows from the past 10ish years are great examples of how minimalism can be used in subtle ways. If anyone is interested I can provide examples of what I mean.
This video definitely forced me to look at the BD dynasty at eye-level. I kind of scratched my head and said to myself, "You know what? Every corps DOES do a lot of the same things BD's guilty of."
It's pretty crazy if you think about it. I think this video actually helps me appreciate BD more as a brand of drum corps performance. Like, yeah, blob hit, but also z-pull, crown set, oo/o/ooo (BAC hits), etc. Each corps has their own "thing" so to speak and that's not a problem. I suppose if it were still Cadets that reigned supreme they would get all the heat that BD does today. "Here we go, z-pull part 20"
MY biggest gripe is that competition is ultimately at the heart of corps-style culture. Due to that, I don't really feel like competition is true competition if realistically, only one group has a solid shot at a title. I WANT SHAKEUP DAMMIT! Let me see every group be like Boston in 2017 when they jumped like 5 places from the year before. And yeah "blah blah subjective artform with objective judging" "something something different shows on the same scoring sheet." Whatever. I don't think I'm asking for a lot. No other group in the marching arts dominates like BD. You don't see consistent single year gaps between Pride of Cincinnati or Pulse/Broken City victories. Titles for those groups are a lot more spaced out and leave more room for other groups to have a shot.
Really the moral of the story is that marching is full of politics and people will always have something to complain about.
Great job with the video, Everett.
Mad appreciate the pin, guys!!!!
Imitated but never duplicated.
That is a valid point about WGI and the other circuits in the activity. BOA has a handful of top bands every year, but other than the occasional repeat or even 3 peat champion, it’s not usually the same band over and over. Carmel has kind of built themselves into that position, but even then I feel like there’s more parity in BOA. WGI has a lot of parity
The Reading Buccaneers in DCA have a similar record. You may not have heard of it, np. 😂
Also, pretty much the same story of haters has played out there too.
I think a big part of it is the staff. So often you see corps change the entire staff in the off-season, while BD has had basically the same design team and caption leadership for more than 2 decades. It’s hard to argue with that consistency
Bluecoats have had the same core staff since 2002. Other top tier staffs seem to move in units. The names will always be the names.
Why change staff when there’s nothing wrong ? If it ain’t broke why fix it? No need to change an entire roster if what you’re doing works well and produces success/quality 🤷
exactly....as a performer, tech, or caption head Scott Johnson has been with BD for EVERY one of their full corps championships and everyone of their percussion titles...(1976 - present day). And when ScoJo was at Vanguard he won a percussion title with them. Safe to say he knows what he is doing.
@@cavalier40 ...and they still lose
Very True
There’s no denying the talent of those kids. But if bd is always on top, I wish they would take it further by making shows that connect with audiences musically and visually. And not just clean! I think people wouldn’t hate so much if they pushed the boundaries
Interesting opinion. A lot of people dislike BD because they have pushed TOO MANY boundaries over the last 2 decades. The activity has changed so much and BD represents a lot of the change to a lot of people.
@@Gosa02you would be correct but their “boundary pushing” stopped roughly 7 years ago, and it’s now getting repetitive
Clean?
When a corps beats BD it’s because they’ve pushed the boundaries, and their show ends up changing DCI as a sport. Bloo 2016, Crown 2013, and Phantom 2008 are good examples. Maybe Star 1991, but BD was a very different corps musically at that point. Try comparing BD 1994 to BD 2017.
Social media has enabled masses of people who have no idea what they’re talking about to assert their opinions…loudly.
Ong
and they're mostly just high school bandos who think hebron could make finals and own too much crown merch
We've seen this in almost every activity and its fans. The loud minority gets even louder and it's only going to increase as we get more and more connected to each other online
@@echo2121 the anti-Crown weirdos are just as annoying.
What’s the problem with diverse opinions? It’s kinda like there’s free speech here in the US.
Or, are you saying that there are people that have opinions you don’t like, and that’s not allowed. If that’s the case, the old adage “opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink” would certainly apply to what you’re saying. Or, you’re an extreme communist and the communist zeitgeist must never be questioned. All of these things are BAD. The only way to truly advance anything is to have different ideas. What if people told Alexander Graham Bell that no one would ever want a telephone?
I think they deserve all of the accolades/praise they receive. Undoubtedly the strongest corp in terms of consistently producing the cleanest and technically impressive shows in the activity. that being said, damn I wish that they would take their technical proficiency and be more creative with their show concepts. Imagine a Blue devils show with all of the musical and visual polish they bring to the table, but with all of the innovation, creativity, and depth that corps like Bluecoats/BAC/Crown experiment with.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your statements here. Blue Devils is a consistent technical masterpiece with highly skilled members but I RARELY like their musical selections. And can we stop with the screechy Blue Devil trumpet parts? Lol. I used to love the Blue Devils in the 80's, but now, I wouldn't go to see them even if they were at a free venue. 🤮
The difference between me and most people that harp on the blue devils is that I fully admit that they are the best. I'm just kinda annoyed that they're so far ahead of every other group most years that there's just hardly competition or cliffhangers at finals.
Also I do think that while many corps are guilty of repetitiveness, I think the blue devils are some of the heaviest offenders purely because their repetitiveness is the most noticeable. It actually took me a while to pick up on the bluecoats style change you mentioned because it blends so well into the music in general and has its own year to year twists (except for the tubas playing that one line from tilt, they do it almost every single year and its getting stale), and as you showed with the drumline, BD just kinda straight up reuses runs. I also think the opening with the guitar this year is VERY similar stylistically to the 2022 opening, which is honestly my only gripe about the show this year.
Overall not a huge BD hater, I just like good underdog stories and hate that BD makes it so hard for those to happen 😭
Interesting that you say you like good underdog stories. On our first national tour in '73 we were beat by MANY corps, including the Audobon Bon Bon Girls. WE were the underdog in '74, moving up from 24th to 9th, being called "The Cinderella Corps". And, with respect to reusing shows ... I played "Legend of the One Eyed Sailor" in '74, '75, '76, and '78! How many times did 27th play "Danny Boy"? How many times did Troopers play "How the West was Won"? Same stuff, different century!
@@jeffdemello1946 Interesting to hear that, I'm sure the underdog seasons for BD were awesome to experience and very entertaining. However, I've had a totally different experience with drum corps than you have considering the age gap between us, and for the entire time I've been into DCI the blue devils have been an unstoppable gold medal machine. I will not deny the personal bias against how dominants the blue devils have been growing up influences my opinions of BD and their performances.
@@jeffdemello19461973 was 50 years ago. they may have been underdogs back then, and that’s a great story, but the fact of the matter is that they’re NOT underdogs anymore. that’s like dismissing people who hated the patriots dynasty by saying that they were bad before tom brady was there.
Yeah, BD dominance hurts drumcore as a whole. Its like the NFL before the spending cap. Now its much more interesting, but could you imagine a DCI draft?
@@brettgoldsmith9971 a dci draft would actually suck and ruin the activity forever. Worst possible solution to what is in reality, a hardly problematic scenario.
I was a Grade-A Blue Devils hater last year, this year I'm choosing not to be. I still have some gripes with some design decisions in Tempus Blue, but that show absolutely deserved to win and didn't deserve the amount of hate thrown at it (from me too). Same with this year. I love The Cutouts a lot more than I did Tempus Blue. This show is insanely entertaining, as well as very cleverly designed. If BD wins this year, they absolutely deserve it. And they'd secure their first Three-peat! (although haters will put a big asterisk on it cause of 2020 and 2021).
Glad I can watch this video and laugh along rather than being heated for no reason whatsoever (like last year lmfao)
I normally hate BD but I actually like their show design this year. It’s pretty entertaining
agreed
I understand the feeling of constantly seeing the same group winning and feeling angry. This fall/winter season will be my last year in HS band. My high school doesn’t necessarily have the best funding provided for the activity so we have always been very limited. It always sucked seeing the same HighSchools winning who were usually ones with the most elaborate show designs and most expensive props. However, I had to realize that it’s not about how good everyone else’s show is but how good my own HighSchools show. Getting caught up in whoever’s winning doesn’t allow you to fully seek to perfect your own craft, especially in an activity like Marching band.
It’s all about the staff honestly
My HS has been doing band for awhile but our guard is only about a year old and pretty underfunded- I started during winterguard season and honestly seeing the difference in our budget compared all the other schools is kinda disheartening lol
My HS has had very spread out victories throughout the years. They founded the marching band in the 1990s, and had their first win in 2003. I think there was a 3 year victory streak and won again in 2007, 2011, 2014, 2017, and 2022. The thing is though, when we didn't win, it was almost always the same school with a winning streak intermittently broken by us and maybe 2 other schools. Indoor program doesn't stand a chance compared to outdoor.
My kids high school band won grand champion at 2 out of 3 competitions this past year. They lost the third one by 0.1 points. There is nothing that you can say to make me believe that the judges were not biased and did not want to see the same band win out the competition season.
I LOVE this kind of content. I always want to see more discussions about DCI culture and opinions. great vid!
Awesome, thank you!
This man out here doing the WORK! NEED MORE DCI VIDEO ESSAYS! ❤
I think BD is simply just on another level from other corps in terms of an execution standpoint. How many times have other corps have a good show idea but when it’s put on the field it sorta just falls flat
I wouldn't really say "on another level." Crown is right there with them.
@@DeeboComing then that would mean they both are
Jagged line 🤧
As someone who's also been through the activity(SCV) and flys out to indy every year as a fan, these are good takes.
BD plays hard, I always tell my friends that each corps has its own identity. Doesn't matter if they win all the time, they simply throw down hard. Props to them for taking gold most of the time, it's entertaining to see other corps giving them a run for their money. I got nothing but love for other groups because I'm a diehard Bloo fan but I love seeing others succeed too
I was a hater before I was a fan, and looking back, a lot of it was just from having not marched corps before. My first season, playing euph at Genesis in 17', I was a great player but the visual demands of drum corps hit me like a truck, and seeing how effortlessly the Blue Devils moved on the field during that time gave me something to appreciate and strive for. I was also moved by their atmosphere, seeing someone tick in the lot, laugh it off with his buddies, and fix it, whereas I experienced so much hostility from members and staff that I had several breakdowns on tour. I still have chronic knee pain from pushing through an injury to keep my spot. BD is obviously known within the activity for being more informal and marching well, but visual isn't on most band kids' radar in the same way as other captions like brass or percussion, and neither are other critical aspects like member culture and experience.
There's also a lot of popular opinion bias in favor of the underdog, which in this context, means anyone who isn't BD. From the outside, the top 6 seems like an even playing field every year, and a corps consistently winning must be the result of unfair judging. I distinctly remember my opinion changed when I saw data on the average member age and prior experience of various corps, and BD was 3.5 years experience and 20.5 years old, whereas the next closest was something like 2 and 19. Knowing that, it's more surprising that they don't win every year. It's also hard to really know a group until you've spent time with them out of uniform. I auditioned in '19 and during both the satellite and callback round, I genuinely had no idea who would/wouldn't make the cut just because of the sheer volume of incredibly talented and experienced people trying to age out there. A corps with that much draw must be doing things right. (I ended up with BK in '19 and '21 and had a great experience)
Looking back on the activity, I have my criticisms of BD just like any organization, but overall I hold them in high regard, and I'd rather have my students look up to them rather than the myriad of corps that starve their members and harbor abusers.
Thank you for addressing this, Everett! Y’know one problem is the BD hate seems to come from people who’ve never heard them live, but every time I hear their brass and watch them, I can’t not smile. It’s def a different experience in person. Also, people don’t always have a grasp at how judges work. They don’t think about the shows before the performance and they have very specific content to look for, like teachers grading papers. But overall, I’m glad to have such an exceptional and experimental corps be the example and push the limits of this engaging activity. (Trying to be an objective voice btw:)
As a crownie I can definitely agree. I don't always think they deserve the win, but when i saw them live in Atlanta last year was the first time I realized they were gonna be hard to beat. Even though I'm still not sure Tempus deserved the win (crown didn't either), it really was an incredible show!
personally, i'm kinda the opposite. i'm not necessarily a hater but i'm not super impressed with this year's show, they're obviously insane performers but as far as the material i just don't think this year is a particularly interesting show, but also tbf i haven't been following drum corps for that long so what do i know
As soon as I saw your channel name, I knew you were Blue Devils drum line. I marched in brass 1983 - UFLS "
My only real gripe with the corps is that the designs don't always hit the emotional check points. The kids are undoubtedly great! I just don't always connect with what they do. This current season though is different as I thoroughly enjoy the show and am loving everything they are putting out there.
As art and entertainment is a very subjective the design misses are bound to happen. But I have found that to be with not just BD (who remembers the really weird BK years? some of those weird madison shows? phantom trying to reidentify themselves?) but I do have a higher count of it with Devs. Ironically a lot of the Blue Devils shows I sadly tend to be entertained by end up getting 2nd (ReWrite of Spring is a banger and The 2011 House show) save for 2014 and (possibly) this year. Every corps does have their niche style and design gimmicks. I think it also is that BD tends to be a victim of their own success. They can and have done shows concepts dealing with just about anything artistically and perform the snot out of it.....but what was it? There is a saying in film "show me don't tell me" and I think that is where Devs lose a lot of folks with their designs and also speaks to some of my favorite Devs shows. If I have to do extra research on your concept then you lose me.
Take 2011 for example. It was a show easy enough for you to grasp just with the title whereas Tempus Blue was.....what was it about that the title gave away to? Felliniesque made sense to those who knew Federico Fellini because not much research was needed if you were raised on his films. With Devs I think we always expect more but that is possibly on us. I remember having my young mind demolished by Scott Dean and the 03-04 corps. But you can't always do the Phenomenon of Summer Train Cool. Long winded post.
Love the content and hope to see you with whomever you're teaching this fall at a show! Saw and "judged" your school at a rained out band show last fall.
Let me give you some perspective from more time in the activity. People have been whining about getting beat by the Blue Devils since the late '70s. And I certainly have no dog in the fight, nor do I have any association at all with the corps. The Blue Devils win for one reason: They consistently field a better rehearsed corps, with near flawless design and musical book. Their fundamentals are scary good, consistently, for at least the past forty years. Their arrangements, all the way back to Jim Ott and Wayne Downey, are consistently on-point.
In fact, the few times they've been beaten always have a theme. The Blue Devils get beat when someone out-innovates them, and happens to make some kind of visual (usually) advancement that leaves BD looking a bit behind the curve. But the second part of that theme is that they get beaten only when someone jumps ahead on innovation, AND manages to get it as polished (or in some cases, very nearly as polished) as BD.
They've always been loud. Even back in '80 when I was marching, they were consistently loud and in tune. In the early Spirit of Atlanta years, Jim Ott took the job as brass instructor there, and one of their trademarks was being essentially louder than ANYONE. But they only achieved that by playing with a lot of distortion, just more against the boundary of reasonable brass tone than the Blue Devils were willing to push. And that was relatively short lived...by 1981, Spirit was no longer scoring in the top six in brass. But I digress.
The activity won't be benefited by someone else winning instead of Blue Devils, unless they actually BEAT the Blue Devils.
The idea that judges are in the tank for BD is just dumb. Judges have it out for BD. It's the opposite. No judge is going to give away numbers to BD.
Very very well said thank you sir! Appreciate your knowledge
I agree
I see a lot of BD hate on my TikTok posts. I have been kinda lax about it in the past, making comments every so often calling them out for being unnecessarily harsh. I’m not tolerating it at all anymore. Thanks for the video! Always been a big fan of BD!
To be honest, I love ALL of y’all’s content and just want more in general. If that means more podcasts, reactions, discussions on aspects of DCI, or literally anything. More of these kinds of videos is definitely wanted! I am addicted to your content and keep rewatching old videos to hold me off until the next one so this was a welcome surprise!
You showcased the motifs used by other corps like crown and the coats and really it’s as simple as I prefer those motifs over the ones BD uses. I simply just don’t like the devils design, its just my opinion. Every once in a while I find myself enjoying a BD show, but usually they are just not in my taste.
I don’t really care if they win or not, I’m not obsessed with scores. I like what I like and that’s all that really matters to me. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t care about determining what is “objectively” better, it’s art after all and if I’m going to rewatch a show 9 times out of 10 it’s not going to be the devils.
Great video with lots of insight! I appreciate the research and objectiveness of this video. After seeing them live I wouldn’t consider myself an active fan of the blue devils (there’s shows I like) but I definitely appreciate what they do more after seeing them live and I look forward to it again this year. I think the loudest voices haven’t heard BD live and tried to appreciate what they’re doing.
I remember several years ago. I went to a local regional show to watch. When BD was announced as 1st place. About 1/2 of the audience booed the result.
I think BD has become the polarizing group.
Bunch of grown adults booing at kids. Classy.
@@markyochoa young adults
My respectful rebuttal: From online videos I've seen that chronicle a summer with the Blue Devils (maybe they were old banquet videos??) to having a family member march (and win) with them, it appears from the outside that BD expects to win every year and are severely disappointed in the rare cases when it doesn't happen. What else other than design and performance would give them that expectation? I've never thought that they bribed judges or designed specifically to win, but their very experienced and coordinated staff knows what the corps will get credit for and what they won't. Does that mean they're writing to win? Not necessarily, but I would argue that they're writing with the numbers in mind and not so much the audience. I know some previous BD staff and (most of them) have been super cool, but I don't know them that well. Maybe I'm wrong. My perspective: BD is almost always the cleanest corps on the field. When another corps wins, its usually down to overall GE score, as was the case in 2016. IMHO, Generel Effect, for better or worse, often correlates with how the general audience enjoys that corps that year.
As for the money, when my family member marched, they claimed tour fees were lower than any other corps. The cost of touring isn't ever going down, so the corps must have enough money to offset that low tour fee. That's neither here or there, just an observation. But when your corps has a reputation for low tour fees, smoother tour, getting work done faster and winning year after year, thats a huge recruiting tool! Isn't that how Star attracted so much talent back in the day (aside from the winning part which happened later)? Now you're recruiting the best and most experienced players. I suspect that its rare to find a BD rookie who doesn't already have some DCI experience (yes, we all know about that one young snare player). That's how money affects the corps. So...3 cheers for their fundraising! You don't think financial struggles affect the top 5 as much as the corps on the other end of the spectrum? What about SCV?
I appreciate what you said about repeated music. Though, I think repeating a formula is a bit more forgivable than repeating note-for-note passages (unless you're doing some sort of intentionally nostalgic show).
As for "tired of seeing them win"....yeah, I'm guilty of that. But I marched in the early 00s and we all know who was doing all the winning then. Cavies of that era were definitely guilty of repeating melodic lines, using similar visual motifs and beating lydian mode into the ground (especially when they were using original music). But...I still enjoyed them more than BD. That's subjective, sure. But I don't know anyone outside of BD who was ever disappointed when Cavies won.
...okay, Cadets 2000 were probably disappointed. They should have won. Ties suck (go 99 SCV!). There I said it.
Thanks for the response! From my experience as a Blue Devil, we did not expect to win year after year. Instead I felt more of a personal pressure to be great and live up to the Blue Devil name.
As for the staff, if you hear any of them talk about their design process, I think it will become quickly evident that they are artists that truly aren’t thinking about score sheets. Check out Inside BD360 to see interviews about this.
As for SCV, I think there was some really terrible management going on and maybe even some shady stuff that led to their collapse this season. I don’t think it was that they just couldn’t find the funds.
ABSOLUTELY NAILED it yo!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I've been going to Blue Devils rehearsals for about 10 years. When I go to those rehearsals, I've seen the same staff. Compare this to a middle school or high school band program that has a revolving door of band directors compared to a school band that has a tenured director that's been there at least 5 years plus. There's a big difference when there's consistent staff. Or a music college that has tenured faculty compared to a majority part time faculty that's always changing. Students will go to where there's a reputation.
I agree with others that perhaps the biggest difficulty watching BD is understanding the show. BD can include lots of thematic material, but if it requires familiarity with outside material, it can seem entirely random to those who lack such familiarity. This is especially detrimental for shows that rely on knowledge outside of the mainstream, like the filmography of Fellini or the Dada art movement. On one hand, it's good to be exposed to new things, and detailed explainers can help with that. But on the other hand, it is nice to have some understanding of a show just from it's own design, ideally on the first viewing. The same can also apply to music and drill (consider the comprehensibility of Cavies drill in the aughts to BD drill).
I think this also feeds into not understanding the scoring. It's easy to want one's favorite show design to win, but that could easily take too much control of the results from the performers and it into the hands of the creative staff, which certainly wouldn't be good for those who march.
Being the best means you are going to attract the best. This means staff, brass, percussion, and color guard. I marched BD in the late 80's. Uniforms and music have changed since then, but the base corps is the same. Keep winning BD!!!
Bravo! Completely agree. In regards to your comment about bringing back music from past years, this was a very common thing in the 70s and 80s. In fact fans loved it in those days when a corps would reprise a fan favorite. This is a different era for sure but I don't have a problem with the occasional reprise if used well. We should be celebrating the excellent of the Blue Devils, even if we are rooting for another corps to challenge them.
Wow, nice job pointing out the 3 to 2 feels in the bluecoats shows. Those were my favorite parts of all those shows haha, guess I know what I like
Love this content! Thanks for giving your perspective on BD. I’m a complete outsider to DCI and an impartial as to who wins, I just love good shows. It really surprised me when I came across all the BD hate in comments. But, people always gonna hate the winners. Just keep doing your thing BD!
I’ve been following the DCI corps for 50 years. A lot has changed and the Blue Devils are an incredible music machine with a massive amount of ressources and trained musicians in their early teens. It’s a great way of forming young adults and team work. I believe This year will be Devils, Crusaders and Mandarins (with quite a few Santa Clara performers ;). My prefered are Crown. Keep on marching!
Really really good video! I myself was a blue devils not hater but complainer lol. It took a while but I've come to realize that every corps has their "thing" and I should appreciate them and the activity no matter who wins
I’m with everyone else. They’re great. Just want someone else to have a darn chance.
I love this video so much, talking about dci culture and stuff always makes me feel like I’m getting too into it and people aren’t interested so it’s very refreshing to see a video like this. I love the devils and have loved them since I’ve heard of them, seen their shows, and even more so when I saw in person and it bugged me when people made unsupported comments.
Anyways, Great video Everett, from a dci lover, trumpet player, and hopefully future blue devil.
I respect the blue devils, the way they treat their performers is top tier and the way they carry themselves is professional. The thing I hate is the constant reuse of phrases and licks in the battery's book. They have a tendency to reuse licks in phrases and it just feels stale. First noticed it in 2018 when they used a bunch of the phrases from the ender of 2017 and the opener of 2017. Then I noticed 2019 did the same thing with both 2018 and 2017. Even tho I'd admit the 2019 line was a much more fun line and I did enjoy it. But 2022's line really did it for me. There was so much that was reused or remixed that I really couldn't stand by it. I get that it was a throwback year, but it was still very irritating to me. I wanted something new, I wanted to see something I haven't seen bd do. And this year, I'm still seeing phrases from 2017 being used. Like the groove out section right after the trombone feature, that section is still being used, it's been used every year since 2017 if I remember correctly and please correct if I remembered wrong. I don't have much of a day for the other sections. I actually love BD's color guard. Their horn line is honestly amazing. But it's just the reuse of phrases and licks that just really tick me off. They are clean, but it's easy to clean phrases you've been using for 4 years. I remember hearing someone complain about the same thing after 2007 but I can't verify that. Do I think BD deserves the wins they get? To be honest, my mind says they do but I really just want another corps to win. I'm hoping for that Boston win. But knowing scoring and judging, they won't win, it'll be BD again and I'll be disappointed again. I guess I have my own personal biases when it comes to bd, idk. Here's my rant lol.
It’s true there are repeated kicks year after year. Not sure which 2017 lick you’re talking about, but this is not a bad take. Although BD’s drumline book is very refreshing in my opinion and I am a big fan.
@@funlinerproductions7071did you hear about the news with the center quad? Dude that's some devastating news for BD. I feel bad. No one should have to deal with that
The point is BD stands still for the difficult parts. The color guard also does most of the "demanding" work while standing still. DCI needs to also be willing to award variety. Sorry, BD has used the same formula since I marched and taught in 1990 - today.
Carolina crown stands still for the most difficult parts of their book too. Sorry, but this is the formula that all corps use. Watch Crowns show this year and both the hardest sections in the book are standing still.
I think most of your points are valid. I think a lot of the identity stuff is just common to all corps and it has always been.
I think BD has amazing performers. All top notch. But when I watch their shows (and any show) I want the music to be coherent and it just isn't to me. Musical phrases are short and ideas are very rarely carried across the show. It is just stream of consciousness content with visuals. The last show I saw that I really liked by BD was 2013, which ironically, fits their style. Stravinsky uses juxtaposition to mash together competing ideas.
Anyway, the judging currently has no interest in penalizing this design choice. If you don't play and sustain musical phrases, to me, you should be docked on Music. You just should.
Take 2015. Crown comes out and plays and absolute bear of a book, where musical ideas must be sustained more than 20 bars each. Devils play 10 seconds of Sweeny Todd, and 10-20 seconds of other random things, and score basically the same for music and general effect.
Now I get that the average fan doesn't always get great shows (Star 93), but music is an important element in the activy, and from a design perspective, BD just puts an inferior product in the field every year.
I actually think that BD’s 2012 show was truly a fantastic show despite not totally understanding it when I marched. Felt the same about through a glass darkly in 2010. They are exploring some really amazing artistic concepts in many cases, and they introduce people to some amazing musical and programmatic concepts. Felleniesque was a masterpiece in that respect.
GREAT VIDEO!!
Old fart here! That little formula with Blue Devils' visual ballads...you might want to go as far back as 1989 (the year I matched). 😁
And guess who was writing the drill then? 😃
i really appreciated this video! i really believe that the BD “hate” can ultimately boil down to a very subjective dislike of their visual and musical identity, which is FAIR.
regardless of if im a fan or not, BD have a clear and strong identity, and thats a beautiful thing that everyone should be grateful for and that every group should strive for.
valid points in the video but tbh its not that i don’t like bd, i actually like them. they put out really good shows, but there are certain years specifically last year where i just think another show was way better. Like riffs and revelations is definitely my favorite show ever in front of phantoms harmonic journey
I've never been the biggest fan of the Blue Devils, but that's because I'm just not super drawn to their styles of show and music (though there are some exceptions of course). However, I have never understood the people who sit around and harp on BD parking and barking, never doing hard stuff, paying judges etc. That narrative is just dumb. Do I personally think the gap between BD and Bluecoats seemed too big last season? Sure, but you can't deny their quality. They are the best in the world at putting their specific performers in places to succeed, and I think that can come across as "easy". They really are just so good that they make things "look" easy. I'll never be a diehard BD fan but I have definitely grown to respect the skill of their performers, and their consistency year to year is undeniably great.
wait discourse aside, drum corps tube needs more content like this omg
Thank you! I agree
I wrote an annoyed comment last year at this channel of BD alums salivating at another BD win, which of course, manifested to no one's surprise.
I'm glad you're addressing this, as once again we're looking at the same outcome for 2023 and beyond.
At the beginning, you hint at the real issue here which has nothing to do with BD, one of the all-time greats, but their affect on the drum corps activity as THE all time great.
You proceed to knock down straw man arguments about the corps themselves, and even agree with a few of them (for example music played in past years). While I think the style of show issue boils down to it being a bit the same and a boring the last like 15-20 years, this likely has more to do than anything with Scott Chandler's vision of design. It's a winning formula, and you'd have to be crazy to change it when it continues to work and win either silver or gold every year. His vision seems to boil down to a collaboration between a visual artist either painting or movie, or a concept, by which both the visual and musical elements are an interpretation of that artist or art concept. If arguing against it, you find quickly find yourself talking art, with all the pitfalls of such a discussion. I can only imagine the refuge this must be at judge's critique, to be able to put forth this emperor's new clothes arguments over design concept to give that tiny edge over other top corps.
All that criticism of BD and its organization is not the point and overlooks the problem, which is that:
No other competitive sport or activity in history has this much dominance by one group. What can be done about it? Nothing. It's not like a sport with a draft lottery, no one (except staff) gets paid. We've also gone further and further away from the moment, or the show, defining the outcome- look at how the caption awards are averaged over three nights. Or how evenly the scores now gradually increase for all corps, with few surprises. Blue Devils dominance was probably inevitable, but it doesn't make it any less sad for the present and future of the drum corps activity.
Great Video!! The haters have been hating for years now. I marched 99-01 and we were hated on back then for all the same “reasons”, but the corp has always pushed the activity through the growth of their own creativity! What an amazing design team and organization over all!
Great comments, very good post. When you are the benchmark of any sport you are liked and hated. The haters will always try and find excuses to bring you down instead of just saying your good and we are coming back at you next year. My Cowboys are hated even when they are not good. Jealousy gets you nowhere give credit when do and move on.
Love the "park and bark" claims from older fans when they immediately turn around and say the 70s and 80s (where the entire show was park and bark) were better than today's shows
That's not at all true. Take another look at some 80s shows like BD 82, SCV 83 or Cadets 84 or SCV 89 - these are not at all 'park and bark', though there still were concert numbers in the 82 and 83 shows.
Very well made. I do find myself gettiing tired of the Blue Devils winning, but I would be hard pressed to say that they are not very good at what they do.
The consistency in staff from year to year is undoubtedly a big factor that adds to the same ish feel every year. The Blue Devils design process also lends itself to a similar feel every year, wherein there is always SO MUCH happening on the field at once that you get the same sense of somewhat sensory overload every year. I admire the process and the skill required to pull it off, however sometimes I feel like the show doesn't always read so well.
This. Bluecoats has found top 3 success through a very long journey with some fairly consistent design team members. They found a formula that worked for them in 2013. We really recognized it as fans in 2014 with Tilt, but the design staff count 2013 as the year something clicked differently for them and they’ve built on that.
Been a fan of BD since 1993 and the last handful of years see these kind of random comments has been a weird thing that I mostly just laugh at. I get rooting for your favorite corps, never understood hating other corps. I was always excited to see all the corps I could. Didn’t necessarily want some other corps to win but always wanted to see a good show and if they happened to win and beat the Devs then all the power to them and congrats to them.
As someone who has marched BD, as well as worked in the industry, the one thing I have not seen in the comments regarding BD, which is of very high importance, is the time the staff have worked together. Many Corps, have a change in staff year after year, where the BD "Team" especially the core team have been together for decades. Even so far as working together way back at Clovis West H.S. in the early 90's, and Logan H.S. in the 2000's. This is a team sport and the Core BD design team has worked together for such a long time one should expect this level of insane design and concept. They have had lots of practice as a team and the Championship shows produced show that.
The team knows how to work together and get things done. I remember in 1998, watching the design team "not talk to each other" and get things done. They just knew what needed to be done/fixed/changed after a run. The box would say their piece then say, "Field!! Hey Scott", Scott would hold up a hand with thumbs up, not even waiting for whatever the box had to say he knew already. This happens a lot. They all just know, it's kinda creepy. The synergy they have is scary tight and they are all on the same page. The video talked about that to a point.
This comment does not discount any other long running staff from other Corps, but the BD team has a huge group, the main core instruction and design group, that have been together a really really long time as compared to other design teams. When you have team members on staff that know what each other are thinking, you can produce a strong show that works.
It starts with the staff working together, getting along, knowing what to expect and that trickles down to the performers. Now the performers are the other key. How many in the marching world have heard people say they aged out at BD. A lot of BD performers marched other places before coming to BD either for age out or maybe their last couple years in the activity. They come to BD at what one can consider their best. Love it or not BD pulls some the best performers from around the world given their draw power. You have a really good change of getting a ring.
So BD has a long tenure core group of staff working with performers that they can cherry pick the best of. Both these things give BD an edge. Again, let's not forget the performers in BD. Lot's of "age out at BD" cut outs (wink) from other corps going to BD when at the top of their game. Better performers can make or break a group.
I think that the BD staff designs shows at a level that challenges the corps in such a way that if they execute it, they have a real good chance of winning a championship.
I enjoyed this a lot. I understand being Blue Devils alumni things can appear to have bias. I think this video eliminates that and shows how much you respect all corps.
Lol as a former BD hater (hate used VERY LIGHTLY) turned fan, this is a great video that breaks down that they aren’t very different from any other corps
I remember hating on The Blue Devils. I remember loving them being my introduction to DCI, actually. But over the years it didn’t take long to find other shows I liked more than their shows. I filled my mind with thoughts like “Wow that drill looks amazing, why doesn’t BD do drill like that?” Or “Wow that brass line is on another level, why doesn’t BD sound that good?”
But I feel like everyone goes through a phase of hating on anything they believe to be inferior.
When I went into college I stopped listening to radio/pop music. “I’m above that..” I said. this behavior definitely changed as the years went on (heck we analyzed Taylor swift in a class..) I appreciate so much more in all types of music now. And now I listen to pop again lol
Right now, while I don’t enjoy that they still win a lot, I have grown. I don’t compare them to other groups anymore. I appreciate the shows and feel good that my favorite group that year played their hearts out. They all won in their own way because they got the opportunity to live these precious moments and experience something not many others get to experience in their lives.
Fantastic video. Thank you!
Dude, just realized you have a BFF hat on! I live in Bentonville :) Love all your analysis on the shows this year!
Cool beans .... I marched BD in 1977 and nothing changes ....
The issue I think people have with BD is that there were so many years where there were simply other better acts that didn’t win.
Off the top of my head, 2007.
Great show but compared to Phantom, Cavies and Cadets that year BD winning was just underwhelming.
While I’m a musician and have only marched all age corps, it’s hard to look at the show from a judges perspective.
Thank you for this and taking the time to talk it through. I have been watching DCI since the late 80s and I have never enjoyed BD shows. But, a big thumbs up to their Music abilities and guard.
What I think about the Blue Devils is they don’t take very many risks when writing their shows. I feel like every year there’s a show that seems so much more creative and groundbreaking than Blue Devils, not to discredit them I still think they are creative, but it feels like there’s always a corp that’s just doing it better. I also feel like when thinking of Blue Devils shows there aren’t many big moments that you remember. For example if I ask you about Bluecoats 2014 you immediately think about the big hit at the end with the tone bend. Or Santa Clara 2018 you immediately think about that big hit after the ballad. I like the Blue Devils shows but I feel like there’s always a few shows that I think should’ve maybe been higher in GE. Because those BD kids can play their instruments, VERY WELL.
I'm not too much of a fan of the repetitive music but as a composer I know it's hard to make 100% original music, especially composing year after year and trying to constantly innovate. Also every single music genre let alone art form period has repetition. .000001% of art is truly original because of how far art goes back. Also, pretty much of the repetition in all corps were only a few measures of each of those shows. There are 12 more minutes of music that contains a lot more original music
Also the Crown clips you used reminded me of the inside joke that Crown plays in the key of Bb a lot
To your point about reusing music, my percussion staff in highschool typically did that for like one passage each year as an Easter egg which I actually really enjoyed, but could definitely see how reusing whole arrangements gets old
ThE bLue dEviLs WriTe tO thE ScoResHeEts
It's a competition where winning is entirely determined by the scoresheets so yes. Mostly every other corps does the same thing. Because it's a competition
This is one of the reasons there is a sub-culture movement in the marching band world to stop doing competitive marching band.
Competition and art are antithetical at their core. Competition stifles creativity and, in my opinion, the foundational purpose of DCI is to innovate the activity of the marching arts and push those boundaries of what this art is and can be. Do other drum corps design their show with the scoresheets in mind?
Sure. However…
From an analytical perspective in regards to design, I would argue BD does it considerably more than most, if not every other corps. There’s a reason they win as much as they do. In simple terms, they design to highlight their strengths and to hide their weaknesses…not every corps does this. Most honestly don’t…at least not to the same degree that BD does.
I personally find that there is a moral imperative for the members of the marching arts community that are looked towards for innovation to actually be innovative. From that perspective, BDs design takes an amoral stance of “winning comes first” which I think is what people are so tired of.
With the Blue Devils, I think it's less about the "they always do X" or "the judges score them higher" or "they've got more money" or the like. It's simply that the organization has built the perfect machine, and when you do that and win too much, it becomes frustrating, and can damage the sport. It's akin to the New England Patriots of the first 15 years of the 2000s, or the Yankees of the 90s (though in that case, money WAS a factor). If you weren't a fan of those teams, you hated them. These organizations just built a system that created a steady stream of talent flowing in. BD has done the same.
From within, their junior corps system goes down as far as 8 years old. By the time players go from Devils C to B to the main corps, these people are fully experienced with the system to know how things go, not to mention just being near pro-level. Once you establish that system and become a consistently high competitor, that means the appeal for top level players from outside the organization gives you the cream of the crop to pick from. So now you've got either people who have "grown up" in the system and know what to expect, or top level players who can adapt quicker than the average player. So there's less time needing to be spent on fundamentals, and more to be spent refining and tuning the show.
As for the judging, there's a little bit of a case to be made here. Much like in MLB, where a well known ace pitcher is more likely to get the call on a tight corner than a younger or lower tier pitcher, I think BD does get some automatic bumps from judges, particularly in GE and Visuals (especially after chatting to someone connected with the overhaul of the judging done a few years ago who had some less than favorable comments about BD visuals scores). When you're judging a corps known for excellence, your brain starts on a higher base score. It's just human nature. Note: This year is also an exception as BD has some real drill rather than what the aforementioned person connected to the judging overhaul referred as their "wandering s**t" drill. This year, those visual scores are deserved.
At the end of the day, while I do think the Blue Devils are doing a little damage to DCI with the constant winning, with a few exceptions, those wins were earned. And it's not the kids' faults. They auditioned, they made the corps, and they're just trying to do the best performance they can.
BD88 was the first DCI I ever saw and still a favorite. I knew as soon as I saw it that I had to march somewhere. I marched Bluecoats in 1991 and over the past decade and a half I've really reconnected with the activity (I've never fully stopped paying attention, just had more wherewithal to get to more shows). Last year, I marched with the Bluecoats Alumni Corps and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. So, Bluecoats is undoubtedly where my heart is. But I've never been a BD hater. At all. I've actually liked some of the shows some people didn't. That ballad in 2017 is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. I AM still a bit salty over 2019 though and that 0.085 margin and especially the way the announcer played with us announcing the winner. LOL... I legitimately felt the Bluecoats show that year was a truly special one and BD's was not one of their better ones. Oh well. LOL
Anyway, having said all that, and as you said, with the activity getting so much more expensive every year, what do you think about the idea of phasing in some kind of spending caps? Corps would be free to spend their money on whatever within those limits - more props, nicer housing, whatever (with the obvious caveat they have to care for the kids properly). Has anything like this ever been discussed? Do you think it might bring a little more parity?
Thanks for the great video. I didn't really need convinced on any of those points, but it was still cool to see you break them down.
I'm not sure if this still exist today, but when I marched (2011 & 2013 Blue Knights), a lot of members would march for a lower ranked corps for a few years, and then their last two years or age out year they would march with BD in search of a 1st place title. I think since BD has built up such a big reputation as a corps who wins, they naturally attract people and staff who want the same thing. So naturally if you have a bunch of people working hard together to work for the same goal, you're usually going to get the result that you want.
That being said, I'm not saying other corps don't want/work for the same result, but having that consistency of having top notch experienced corps members and staff year after year pays off. Just like in any sport (Astros with Baseball; Chiefs with Football).
I definitely had some whiplash from this video popping up in my recommended page. Like, the Blue Devils are the name of my high school team/mascot, so I assumed it was something to do with that. But no, they’re not affiliated, half the US apart. Also the vague wording of the video made it hard for me to suss out what was being talked about so thanks for that.
You raise good points, but I'm still a vicious "Blue Devils Hater". For context, I've been a spectator of the activity since about 2011, when I was a teenager. Never had enough money to march in those precious years, sadly! But from more than a decade of keeping up with DCI, there are shows year after year that are more clean musically and visually, more creative and innovative to the activity, and most importantly, simply designed better than Blue Devils shows.
BD's shows are designed with way too many things going on at once. Watching a live performance feels like the musical and visual representation of a stroke. As an audience member, there's a lot of WOW factor, don't get me wrong... but that's seemingly about it. There's not much of a story to follow, the musical selections seem to drift in and out randomly at times, and the shows seem to be more of a exhibition of musical execution and anti-musical drumline rudimental rams (can't only blame BD on this one, if I'm being honest...). Bluecoats 2022 had better execution, and more innovative design. Boston Crusaders 2022 had an absolutely killer show and performance, and insane drumline. Tempus Blue from a design standpoint couldn't hold a candle to either of those shows, but I guess the corps got bonus points for their 65th anniversary.
I harbor absolutely NO ill-will or hatred towards the performers - (they're just doing what they're contracted to do, which is perform and be part of the activity, and they do a pretty damn good job at it!) - but I think where most people's frustrations come from is watching an underwhelming, "samey" show design win gold over better designed and more engaging shows.
Appreciate your response! I think what this really boils down to is this.
You have your opinion on what is good drum corps and what is not. You have your opinion on what is clean and what is creative or good show design. And if you think the Blue Devils do not deserve some or a lot of their championships, that’s okay.
The reality however is that your perspective of the activity is not the same as the majority of judges and educators in the community. Where you see a poorly designed show that’s not clean or demanding, the judges see a creative and well executed show across all captions.
So all I have to say is that I urge you to try to figure out why this is. Often times the “vicious BD haters” have a preconceived idea about what the blue devils are that prevents them from actually being open to understanding why BD gets the credit that is consistently given to them by panels of highly experienced and knowledgeable members of the marching arts activity.
I used to be a HUGE bllue devils hater around 2017 because it honestly does get tiring to see them win so often, however I've realized that they simple preform their show better than the rest 9 times out of 10. I went to go see a live show with my mom and even she as a non drum corps fan was just in awe at how they sound. I will still root for the underdog but I acknowledge why they get the top spot.
Sorry, but my post is going to be infinitely long and, I hope, cohesive lol...
First, good video. I'm glad to see it's been well received. And I get that the audience here is likely to be young, and you are too. That's not a knock. That's a great thing. But it lends to my initial point, which is that BD has been hated for nearly 50 years, not just the last 20. If anything, they've become less hated in the last 20-30 years than they used to be.
Yes, I've been involved with drum corps and high school band activities for that long lol. And if ever there has been a marching organization to emulate from top to bottom, for all the best reasons, it's Blue Devils.
The core of BD's staff has also been there for 50 years, many beginning as corps members. Yes, a bunch of old people who call you kids lol. But endearingly, and that's another point of BD's success. It's truly a family. BD has been a family-run organization throughout its entire existence, until recently. And that kind of love shows every day in everything they do.
Seriously, how else would a bunch of grandparents get such amazing results out of kids?! By genuinely loving them like they're there own. Getting into practices with them and having fun too. Scott Chandler, who's been there since 1990, a "grandpa" lol, rolling around on the field with the kids! People can see that in BD's 360 videos. Year after year.
That said, and to one of your main points, as the activity has progressed, I've seen BD become less and less hated over the last 20 years. I think this is likely due to the change away from bugles, which has made the activity more accessible to so many outstanding kids coming out of so many excellent high school programs, who can now be in a drum corps for 4 years during their college years. And they go all over the country, which I think has united the whole community better than it's ever been, because so many of the kids know each other or want to meet each other.
Stuffy old traditionalists don't understand the change in instruments, so they don't like it, which is kind of ironic because it's people who marched with them who are leading the activity today. But the change was necessary and good, IMO. They'll get over it, maybe lol.
But one thing that hasn't changed, though it's evolved, is the core of BD's staff, 50 years, though constantly being refreshed with past members, which also helps keep the organization excellent and fresh year after year, AND helps to keep its identity, which is a very impotant aspect of being a Blue Devil.
And progressive! As ancient as I am, I'm progressive, and I've progressed with the activity Nothing "old school" about me. That said, there's still a place for old school references, and BD does that better than anyone. And over the last 20 years or so, it's been BD pushing the activity forward more than any corps, IMO, while never forgetting where it came from and how it got there, through old school references, and it all works amazingly well together.
You mentioned 2012, and that's a good example of how BD has changed the activity at this point in time. One of the greatest and most unique shows in the history of DCI. Blew my mind at the first step, the first time I saw it, all the way through to the end. And they've kept pushing that improv style since then, although they'd been doing "improv" since the 90s. And they've developed and evolved that style.
All corps have a style of their own. And like you said, all corps staffs know each other well and are friends. There are no shenanigans, at least, not in the last 20-30 years. Before that, maybe, but not BD, but because BD was so disliked. But the activity has become much more friendly than it was 30+ years ago. And judges know everyone too, so there's no way they could get away with playing favorites.
Of course, rivalries exist and privately people take jabs at other corps, probably more at BD lol, and that's ok. Actually, from what I believe, BD is not only used to it, but it's expected and almost welcome lol. But when its to the extent where it's just plain mean, nobody should do that to any corps. If you don't like an organization, taking it out on the kids is terrible. But like I said, the activity has become such a community throughout the last 20-30 years that such hatred is far less present than it's ever been.
As for BD winning so much, it keeps the challenge and pursuit of excellence and progression alive in the activity among all corps. If BD wasn't there, yes, people might rejoice at first, but then people would feel the loss, because BD has always been a measuring stick. The corps, the staff, the organization, all of it. Drum corps wouldn't be better without them, IMO.
Disclaimer, hard as it might be to believe, if anyone has gotten this far lol... I'm not and have never been affliated with BD. But I've been a fan of everything the organization is about since my school days, where I was in a similarly run, similarly successful, and similarly disliked lol high school band, full of great nice kids, just like all bands and drum corps have always been. But in the 70s, that kind of excellence for a high school band was so different that people didn't get it, so it was assumed we were evil lol.
So I know and understand everything BD has had to deal with for half a century, which is probably how long it took to read all of this! And several of my classmates have helped with the evolution of the marching arts activities throughout the last 50 years, and they're still involved. So, again, I get it.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but once I started, I couldn't stop! Good luck to everyone this season!
Thank you for this! Really appreciate hearing your perspective and find it really valuable. I like how you called the Blue Devils a measuring stick and I think that’s very true whether others like to admit that or not. But it does push the activity forward like you said.
I'm one of the 'mid old-schoolers'. I want to say the first time we saw a themed show that worked really well was SCV 1988 and 1989. Literally the same show both years, but 'An opera on the field' Cadets 1987, Phantom 2008, Cadets 2011, the Star of Indiana shows. Basically a full production with over the top GE. Most of the BD shows I can recall are huge songs, extremely well done, but not all related like a stage musical. I'd love to see what the Blue Devils would do with a stage production. They have always been know as Big Jazz and to stay with that theme makes it difficult to innovate styles - just do everything better and bigger and you have your formula to win.
Great commentary!!
I appreciate that you are trying to be good faith to address the criticism, but I still think there are holes in your logic that you overlooking. I will try and address your points one by one.
1. The park and bark. This is an older criticism that I believe applies less today, however going back to 2009 - 2015, this is very appropriate. In 2009 I believe I clocked BD as marching and playing for less than 2 min and when they did march and play together the step size was less than 8 to 5. Compared to the insane drill writing of Crown and Cadets in that era, it was crystal clear that the visual demand for BD was significantly less. I also personally had a critique of the drill never incorporating the contra section into the drill. I think there were changes in who was writing drill in the mid 2010s and some of that criticism is less valid today. Also other corps have moved towards BDs visual philosophy so the amount of time marching and playing has gone down across the board over the past 15 years. But even you say that BD does have have drill writers or dot books. To some people that whole philosophy is anathema to what drum corps is supposed to be.
2. Paying the judges. I believe this is a straw man argument. No reasonable person believes that there is bribery in the judging community. At the same time, there are judges that if you see them on the finals panel, you know BD is getting a max score no matter what. (*cough* Chumley *cough*) When it comes to designing to the sheets, you have a valid argument. BD makes the art they want to make. Its just that a large a growing part of the audience does not like that art. I cannot stand the aesthetic of Scott Chandler. At the same time, I can see how those esoteric shows can make a very fulfilling member experience. It seems that the more straight forward shows are the ones the BD loses, so its natural to keep going to what brings you success. But then you become a theatre who just does shows by Mamet or Durang. Doing art for yourself, is not doing art to engage and entertain an audience.
3. Money. Yes this is a huge advantage. However its not the props or instruments or electronics that give the advantage. Its the member experience. One of the reasons a corps like BD becomes a destination corps is because of the idea that tour life will be easier. BD gets closer housing sites, so there is less travel from housing sites to show. They get later gates so there is more floor time and rehearsal time. I would bet the food choices are also better. This is not a recent phenomena. Back in the 90s when I marched, it was legend how much better tour was for BD.
4. Metamorph17. You are correct that corps will fall into their own tropes. The only difference is that judges seem to reward BDs tropes over the other top corps. Whether it be the side to side shimmy, the body movement that swirls into a tight clump. The drum set feature. The staging shift among others, BD does do a lot of the same things. However as a champion, they play it safe. Also nothing that BD does visually is as iconic as the leg kick or the Z pull. The only things that are unequivocally BD are the arms out posture and the shimmy. Think of the last 3 champions that were not BD. I think what they tried next year was not the same old same old, but an evolution of what they were trying to do. In 2014 Crown had those trampolines and even though they reused some of the same devices, I think besides Rach Star, it was their most out of formula show. In 2017 Bluecoats came out with the largest set piece in DCI history and music from an experimental rock band. In 2019 SCV, well they tried. However I think it was still an evolution of 2018. I also think that constantly going back to music feeds into the playing it safe narrative.
In the end, I do not think there is a huge difference in the talent or execution of the top 4 corps. So why does one corps win 40% of every championship ever and 60% of the championships in the past 15 years? Its frustrating when I see a show like Bluecoats 2019, which is one of my favorite shows of all time and it loses to a show that does not connect with me at all. There was a time where BD was my favorite corps. 1993 BD is what brought me into Drum Corps. 1994 is one of the best shows of all time. However a combination of fatigue and the inability to engage with their concepts has almost made me resent BD to the point if they win tonight in Broken Arrow, the season is over and I really do not care anymore to watch to the end.
Thank you for the comment! I recognize the park and bark criticism originated from an older time where it was more valid, but it has infiltrated into the current Rolodex of BD criticisms so I wanted to explain why that’s not valid in todays Blue Devils
Paying the judges could be a straw man argument, but it also is probably the most common thing I see online. So I included in the video mostly for any young kids who just regurgitate this nonsense without knowing any better. And I preface this in the video too by recognizing that most people do not actually think this.
As for saying the Blue Devils play it safe, I just disagree wholeheartedly. Just because BD isn’t bringing out the biggest prop on the field or using trampolines or changing the entire look of the uniforms doesn’t mean that they aren’t constantly innovating. It’s just not in those in your face ways. I will agree that reusing music IS safe and I mention that I have a problem with that in the video. But the design staff is always grinding to create art that pushes the boundaries in THEIR perspective of the activity. That just doesn’t resonate or come across to a lot of people sometimes.
What’s sad to me is that you say if BD wins Broken Arrow tonight, you will just not care anymore. That to me is a lot of the mentality of negativity that brings down the activity as a whole if you’re not even willing to give the Blue Devils show a chance. I understand the REASONS why but hopefully you watch their show tonight and enjoy it more than you thought.
@@funlinerproductions7071 thanks for the reply and I appreciate your thoughts! I guess the only question I have is how is BD not the theatre that only does Mamet and Durang? You need extensive knowledge of theatre and top notch performers to do those shows and from an experts point of view the shows will be masterpieces, but how does "The Actors Nightmare" or "Oleanna" resonate with broad audiences? Sure every once in a while you will get a "Glengarry Glen Ross" or a "Vanya & Sonia & Masha & Spike" but those are few and far between. I guess my point is that the BD design staff does innovate in their own way, but in a more esoteric and less inviting way. You can intellectually see the genius in what they do, but its been 20 years since a BD show has made me want to throw a baby.
You get it.
I had heard that the top tier corps are able to snag the best horn players in the country because everyone wants to march with a winning corps. In other words, it is no longer just a regional effort but rather a well-orchestrated coordination across the country to get the best players. If this is true, it stands to reason that the top corps (and especially BD) would enjoy only the best players in the nation and many other corps would simply lose out on snagging these better players.
My main gripe with the blue devils is with the judges. I personally believe that the judges have an unintentional bias to where "oh its the blue devils do they must be good." An example i see is with drumline, imo Boston crusaders drumline has a more difficult book and plays it cleaner than blue devils, but blue devils drumline scores higher. I'd love to have a CIVIL DEBATE (not an argument) in the replies about this though.
Thanks for the response! I find this comment amusing only because you'd be surprised to know that a lot of judges have a bias AGAINST the Blue Devils if anything. When I was marching at the Blue Devils back in 2016 I remember being told once "don't give the judges even the tiniest excuse to call out any mistakes" because I think a lot of judges are also very aware of the consistent success of the Blue Devils. We were told that we had to be undeniable.
As for Boston vs BD's drumline, I suggest you genuinely go try to learn a section from each book. I think you'll find a lot more when you examine both books carefully.
@@funlinerproductions7071 that put things at a slightly different perspective, I'll be sure to learn a section from their book.
I’ve seen some awful comments this year. These are kids and young adults who are spectacularly talented and every one of them deserves to be there. All comments like paying judges, doing the same shows etc. takes away from the kids performing. They are the ones who bring forth the shows and light it up every year. No matter what corps you are talking about, remember these kids work their tushes off, going to bed late, getting up early, switching time zones in all types of weather and they still kill it on the field every year.
Another strong point of BD is their ability to adapt (especially the last decade or so). I remember in the "80's when BD was the "rebel corps". Always hard hitting jazz, clean ramming drum lines, and screeching sopranos in octaves even most pros found hard to hit. They had attitude no remorse or regret for being good, and most years, better than everyone else. I saw them in the "80's at Corps Encore in Utah. I did the in-the-lot thing way before it was popular. It was nice because it was just me, the staff, and the drumline, horns, or guard. Most of the staff (and others) though I was weird not to see the whole show I paid for. However, I wanted to find out what these groups (BD, SCV, and others) did to get better. Anyway, I remember seeing SCV get off their buses all in the same uniform, everything organized, and all of the sections together right away. BD got off the bus slowly, some of the members had their uniforms partially on, others in t-shirts, some with their cumberbunds on their heads, earrings with their championship rings dangling from them, It was just how good they knew they were. There were rumors in "86 they went bowling rather than practice because they were blowing everyone out of the water. They have changed a lot from those days. There was a period when they were not always winning ("87 to "93) but they adapted. Just as they have after the Bluecoats won in "16. BD changed the next year but still adapted it to the BD style, just adapted to what was the "current in thing." Many corps have a difficult time doing that. They are slow and by the time they get it, it has passed and something new has become the trend. Another thing with the judges that you talked about it the paying or "buying" for top scores. If that was the case, other corps would have won more and quicker. S of I had a lot more money than BD an they only won once.
I am sure if you win a lot (like BD has) they are more apt to give you the benefit of doubt if something sounds off or like a tick. "Oh, they are a top corps. So, they probably meant to do that becomes a thought. However, if it continues then they, like anyone get deductions. So, BD like any top corps for a while, has some perks. Just like other things in life. Some other top corps have had some pretty bad productions but still made the top 12 because they are consistently on top. That only lasts for a while if they keep producing lack luster shows.
I mentioned the people from other corps moving to BD (previous post), and other top corps too, after a year or more in another, less winning corps. This along with having a B and C corps give the advantage of experience in many areas including basics they do not have to teach everyone every year (saves time for other things to get better faster). They even have other directors, caption heads, and other staff leaving top positions to work with them. Winning a lot is addictive and why most people do drum corps. In the hopes of winning it all. If I join BD and win 2 of the 4 years I was there, that is pretty fulfilling and a lot more fun (not that other corps do not have fun and beneficial attributes). Yes, participation is nice and appreciation of others is good. Standing on the field at finals and hearing them call your corps out as the champions for that season is what the majority, if not 99.99% of the members is the ultimate goal for joining. I have rarely, if ever, hear someone in a championship corps say, "we shouldn't have won." You can hate BD all you want but it is DCI that makes the rules. BD just has the pattern figured out (for now) of how to consistently do that better than everyone else. I have not always been a huge BD fan but, you have to respect their attitude, ability to adjust, adapt, and win a lot. Maybe one say that will change but, probably not in the foreseeable future.
Really solid video and analysis!
I will admit upfront, I haven't marched a full season yet. I had a contract with the Colts last summer but I wrecked myself right before spring training so I can't say any of this from a point of actual experince. But, what I will say is that from my friends that have/currently are marching, when you're in the activity scores matter little to none. I know very few people that are at their coprs because of where they placed in finals. The only people I know that care about scores are the people on DCP that never even went to an audition camp. Yeah, placement tracking is fun but if you're actually out there on the field you're main goal is to make the best show possible, the fact that judges are out there is largely irrelivant.
I felt like I was obligated to comment here cause I am the target audience cause up until COVID I was a huge BD hater but then I watched them in person. I saw Tempus Blue in Atlanta, first time seeing BD in person, we had a cooldown year and now coming back I was... mild.
And I think that one thing I saw someone else comment on that has to do with it is the concept itself. These last two shows don't convey a story or a meaning like other corps' shows do. And a lot of people, musically or not musically intact, don't want to watch a show or even a movie for that matter if it doesn't mean anything in comparison to the last show they watched. And if you Have to explain your show or concept, then you didn't do your job when you created the show. So Joe Schmoe sees this show about a concept he's never heard of with music that doesn't seem to belong together and when they win... he becomes a BD hater.
Something that amuses me about this entire idea is that DCI used to never have show concepts. Corps had identities and that was about it. Scouts did latin, Spirit was loud, 27 was clean, Phantom didn't know how to play anything but classical, but show concepts didn't matter because everyone just played what they liked. Let's look at 1980 Crossmen (my mothers age out show, so it's very familiar). Pictures de Espana, Tiger of San Pedro. Spanish Fantasy, Jack Miraculous, all capped off with Superman standing there in his cape and leotard. I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure they where gonna play In the Stone but had the charts swiped by the Bridgemen, because those things could happen back then. The show didn't have a name, didn't have a story, it was all music that Crossmen enjoyed. And it's an AMAZING show. If you want further chaos, look at pretty much anything the Bridgemen did. They played a football game at the end of their show because it was fun (Alabama vs Auburn, finals were in Birmingham AL) and had a three ring circus before fighting the US Civil War. Point is, show concepts are something that evolved into DCI, and they could just as easily leave again if that's how things happen.
A great point. If a person who knows nothing about DCI came to a show, and you ask that person what did that show you saw mean to you? If you can't answer that question, then that person just saw "The Cutouts" The BD of the 80's and 90's did that, and that's what infuriates me when I see BD win another show....
I appreciate you're trying to address these criticisms with thoughtful rebuttals but the point of hating on teams is being irrational. Once you introduce any subjectivity to the competition it's only gonna compound the absurd speculation and conspiracy theories that people use to validate their opinions. The only way they stop hating is for BD to lose for a couple decades in a row
All great points-thanks. The assumption is if you’re winning year after year for decades you must be innovating in some crazy way that the other groups just can’t keep up with, and then you watch BD and it’s just a regular (tho very clean) DCI show-it never feels groundbreaking or extra unique. So people wonder why they keep winning when other corps are trying new ideas, breaking rules, and changing the game. That’s all-we’re all just victims of our assumptions about what makes a winning show
Announcer: "Blue Devils Drum Major, Is your corps ready?"
Shout from the crowd: "WHY DO YOU EVEN ASK?"
I been waitin for this one. Turnitup!
I feel like a lot of people also forget that if the Blue Devils actually decided to hold back just to let another drum corp win the gold medal, could you imagine how devastated the BD marchers would be knowing they spent a 4,000 dollar fortune on a management that purposely held them back? They’re not machines who march to win, they’re passionate, goofy college age people who simply want the best marching experience based of either reputation, or a past love for said corp, just like every other marcher in a separate corp. I don’t think they walk in and out only thinking about winning, the actual winning is something that just sort of……..happened one day and it kept going.
I am definitely on the team of anything but the Blue Devils. Please God let the judges see that there is something other then the Blue Devils.
than*
@@funlinerproductions7071 What an ass...I'm sure he appreciated you pointing out his grammar mistake.
Excellent analysis!!!!
Dang man this is so well presented and astute, props for doing this. Next you must review 2012 BD with special guest JACK
I love Jack Denger
@@funlinerproductions7071Jack Denger = certified cool guy™️
This video format is great
I think in a lot of their shows it can be really hard to see what their theme is from watching it. A lot of the time it requires a lot of research to understand what they're going for. Especially in 2012 and 2022. I think this is why people hate the Blue Devils, and is why they're almost never in my top 5 of the year. Though, everyone saying their visuals are easy can suck a dick. Their drill isn't physically difficult, i.e. running across the field for 10+ minutes, but it is difficult in the sense that they are making really complex forms that are hard to make cleanly. This is especially true in some of their follow the leader sets.
I also think that the format Blue Devils use is more similar year after year than in a lot of other corps' formats. For example, a lot of the props in BD shows are similar, like the stairs in 17 and 22. They also utilize them in more or less the same way, like the chairs in 09, the props in 14, the stairs in 17, the stages in 19, and the stairs in 22. All of the props were abstract, were moved around the field a lot, and usually had a soloist or three on them. I don't think other corps use props in the exact same way year after year like BD does, although I haven't done much research, this is just from memory. Blue Devils also use a lot of the same choreo, music that sounds similar even if they haven't it before, and the same form of ballad every year. I believe this is why people say BD does the same show every year, even though it's not true. I do believe they have a format that makes each show seem more similar year after year than with other corps, and I also believe that they design their shows primarily to win, though they also take what their members think into account.
This is pretty much the same situation as Star of Indiana back in the early 90's, just with different criticisms. In 91, people booed Star because they wanted Cavaliers to win, and they did not like that Star had a multi-millionaire as a director since that gave them a gigantic advantage. And tbf it DID give them a massive advantage, as they existed for less than ten years and got four consecutive top three finishes and a championship in that time. Another complaint was that Star had an ego bigger than Texas, which, as much as I like Star, WAS true. Star literally said DCI was constricting what they wanted to do, so they dipped after 93. However, now everyone looks at Star of Indiana from the years 1990-93 as this legendary corps that was decades ahead of its' time that was gone too soon. The BD situation is pretty much the same type of shit that was happening to Star in the 90s, just with different complaints.
And that's a shame since I like a lot of BD's music, even if I don't think their shows are great apart from 17 and 23. Plus, if you look into the judging system of DCI, it makes complete sense why Blue Devils win nearly every year. The people saying the judges got it wrong are Bluecoats stans that are pissed that Bloo didn't win. Though, I will say I believe Crown should have won in 2015, so I'm also slightly hypocritical, but BD definitely deserves as much success as they get. Most people just don't know how the judging system works and thinks entertaining=1st place, when that isn't the case. BD trumps every other corps in terms of talent and execution, and most people don't get that.
Scott Chandler takes an art critic's approach to show design. To question the design turns into questioning art, and he can always say "to each their own."
Love this video!
Well constructed and unbiased video. Good watch. I used to be a “hater” persay but I think I just mostly am a fan of rooting for underdog corps every year. I think that’s the root of most peoples gripes.
As much as I’m tired of the winning all the time, he gets it as well, but when they win, it’s absolutely deserved! This years show is fantastic, and can’t wait to see it live!
Before social media - going back to the late 90’s - there were IRC and AOL chat rooms, technically still a “social” type of media. Then there was the DCP forums in the early 2000’s. I remember like it was yesterday the vitriol and hatred for BD on those platforms. Hatred that was disguised as “we don’t like their shows” or “they don’t do anything worthy of winning” when in reality the plain truth of the matter was and is that people just hate to see them win, so they invent reasons that don’t exist.
And long before the internet you had the “Anyone But BD” haters going back to the beginning of their successes in the 70’s and 80’s. Haters and trolls have always been lurking. They just find new and louder places to make themselves feel important.
An interesting critique of historically high performing corps would be how show schedules impact sleep and rehearsal time for various corps. By consistently performing in the later time slots, top corps are afforded more time in the day to dedicate to rehearsal and rest for members. Obviously, this is not a massive impact but it could be a reason for less parity or mobility on the score sheets for corps that are lower in the standings.
I saw someone post BD's rehearsal day schedule as a point out to how they differ from others... one thing that's worth the noting (I think) is how placement in show lineups impact corps rehearsal schedule.
Being on at 9pm vs 5pm leaves a fair bit of extra legroom to implement a more rest between blocks.
Yeah...but this time difference doesn't impact the corps that have the greatest chance to challenge Blue Devils. Boston Crusaders, Carolina Crown, and Bluecoats are also performing around 9pm...and yet...they just can't seem to beat them in the scores.
@bc022372 true.
I surmise that what gives BD the edge is the long term consistency that they've had on all levels of their staff over the past 2+ decades. They dropped to 4th in 2005, and haven't placed lower than 2nd since 2006. From what I can tell, they've never had an "off year" and hit the "panic and change everything" button. And if they were to drop down the home stretch... they still wouldn't. They seem immune to the mass staffing fallouts and overhauls that other corps have been caught up in.
Well said. I remember internet trolls trash talking BD back when I marched in 2001-2005. 😂😂😂
Okay for real though this is something I’ve noticed in the past 10ish years of corps finding their own “sound” or type of show design that becomes an integral part of their identity.
BD is the obvious example…but I actually noticed this in the Bluecoats starting in 2013 where almost every single show to-date features some kind of Steve Reich-ish form of minimalism (with the repetition of a single 1-2 measure phrase being repeated and off-set through layering to create harmonies and development using the exact same material).
Literally ever single show has this that they design now and has become an integral part of their identity and overall “sound.” I noticed this because I’m a composer and I studied minimalism and many bluecoats shows from the past 10ish years are great examples of how minimalism can be used in subtle ways. If anyone is interested I can provide examples of what I mean.