How To Dial In Grind Size for Espresso
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2019
- Watch our updated (April 2023) beginner level video on Dialing in Grind Size for Espresso: • Best Grind Setting for...
How to get grind size right for espresso. Learn the dialing-in process for setting a grinder to get the best espresso extractions. See a side by side comparison of under-extraction, over-extraction and espresso made with the right grind size. Video covers topics like control of other variables while working with grind size and tools to help achieve success.
Video Links:
Compare Espresso Made in Pressurized and Non-pressurized Filter Baskets:
• Espresso Shots Compare...
Basic Espresso Technique: Brew Ratios:
• How To: Basic Espresso...
Products
Baratza Sette 270Wi: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
ECM Classika PID: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
The Jack Leveler: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Maromas Orphea Whole Bean Coffee: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
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Good morning
I would like to express my deepest gratitude. This video really helped me finally getting the perfect espresso I longed for.
Please for the sake of the new customers. Make this video at the top of the channel. So they don't throw away kilos of whole beans like I did.
And again thank you so much for letting me have the best espresso ever
This is probably the best "dialing in" vid on RUclips. Good job!
Hi S, Well, thanks a whole latte for the comment!
Marc
This was fucking amazing. I feel like all the fluff I see on Instagram and Facebook groups regarding over analyzation of details leading to overspending on espresso hardware was casually put to bed with a concise and direct 9 minute tutorial. How this video doesn't have a minimum of 1 million views after 3 years is beyond me.
Hi Tony, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Dude this guy explains better than any other person from any other channel out there.
Hi Marko, Thanks a whole latte for taking the time to leave your comment!
Marc
And no fkn manbun wooooo no fem boys woo
Why did it take me so long to find this video? Perfect, and practical explanation on what to focus on. Thank you sir.
Hi dT, you are welcome - a lot more like this on our channel!
Marc
Love the look of the new set.
Very smart looking.
And the lighting is spot on too. Well done and welcome back.👍
Hi Mr. Z, Thanks a bunch for the comment! Great to be back and appreciate the support!
Marc
I swear, your videos gives me greater satisfaction than a perfectly pulled shot in the morning. Another great video from a fantastic new location, keep up the neat work!
Hi A, Thanks for taking a moment to comment! Happy to hear you enjoy the videos!
Marc
Great to see you back in a new set! I have to say that I've had my ECM Classika PID for a couple years now and love it! Thanks for the great tips :)
Hi WendiAlene, It's nice to be back! You are welcome and thanks for the feedback on the Classika!
Marc
Nice looking Studio Set. I appreciate the information in the video, Mark. I just received my Ceado E37s and Pro 600 from WLL today. I am so excited!
This was an exceptional guide for beginners like myself. I bought my first machine (a Rancilio Sylvia V2) and learning this helped a lot. I also learned about adjusting the OPV valve to increase or decrease pressure and how to use a pressure gauge on the portafilter in order to reach 9 bars. So many factors to learn about! Thanks for the helpful information and keep up the great work! 🙂
Love your channel and presentations! Thank you for helping me get knowledge about coffee and for helping me get better in coffee making at home. Keep up the good work! Greetings from Greece!
Hi Igno, Thanks for the comment it's appreciated!
Marc
Lovely looking set up and espresso
Great job
Thanks for sharing ☕️
New studio looks amazing! Great video.
Love the video! Very straight forward and informative. Thank you.
Good to have you back. Great video as usual and the new set looks great, too.
Thank you for a very informative video, it was very helpful! As a side not my wife used to work the bar at a Starbucks back in 1992-92 and she used to tell me about having to change her grind 5-6 times a shift, due to humidity, atmospheric pressure and a few other variations, that was back when they had real baristas!
Hi Steve, You are welcome and thank you for sharing your story! Yes grind is fluid - never set and forget! And I know what you mean about real baristas. Most Starbucks using super-autos to make espresso these days.
Marc
Thank you so much for this thorough explanation of dialing in grind and an espresso - and the commentary in the end about getting to ‘the flavor you like’. New machine recently delivered from WWL (single boiler EMC), new-to-me beans also from WLL, and I was having issues getting my espresso to that sweet spot - I was all over the place grinding with my trusty Mazzer (also from WLL, over a decade ago) Your video helped me get there. Even those of us who’ve ‘been there, done that’ can always use a good, detailed refresher course such as this. It’s amazing how many people think espresso is bitter and don’t experience the sweetness and complex flavors you can achieve with some effort and patience. Great visuals on the extractions, too. Much appreciated!
Hi Charlie, Thanks for the comment and your patronage! It really should be about getting the flavor you like! Some like the bitter flavor but it does not have to be that way.
Cheers,
Marc
This set is just gorgeous, like unbelievably incredible! 🤤
Hi Justin, Thanks for the comment! I'll pass that along to the designers!
Marc
Thank you. Worked at few shops had crummy setup as a teen. Just got back into the at home hobby and (B270 + Classic Pro) Just had a 27 second shot after this video. Plus it was a great tasting shot as well. Thank you for helping, you're the best.
Hi Andrew, That's awesome - happy to help and here you had a delicious shot!
Marc
Great video, this really helped me adjust or dial in my new Breville Smart Pro. Keep up the good work!
Mark
Mark Krysztofiak Hi thanks for the comment. We will! Marc
The content you guys provide is second to none. Good job guys!
Hi p, Thanks for the kind comment - we love what we do a whole latte!
Marc
Nice new studio, keep those quality videos coming :D !
Hi Razvan, Thanks for the comment! We will keep the vids coming!
Marc
Amazing job on the new studio and lighting. Very professional
Hi j, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
As usual, great info I can use right now.
Glad to see you guys back.
Hi Black Heart, Thanks it's great to be making videos again!
Marc
I'm following up on my own question down below. It didn't occur to me that the dramatic spurting I was experiencing in my early clueless shots as simply an intense degree of channeling. The grind size I chose to start with wasn't fine enough to stop the pressurized water from going straight through the coffee and hitting the bottom of the basket more or less full force. Result, espresso explosion. Many espresso explosions, actually, because I didn't understand exactly why this was happening. Luckily, my process was to reducing grind settings gradually anyway, until I hit the golden mean. So I finally got to the point that my shots actually began to pull properly. Exciting early experiences, though. Admittedly gratifying to have figured it out myself.
Hi John, Thanks for the update - I'm happy to hear you figured things out!
Marc
I was starting to wonder why I hadn't seen anything lately. I like the new set. 👍
This was a useful and very well explained video, thanks!
You're welcome - glad it was helpful! Thanks you for taking a moment to leave your comment.
Marc
Great video Marc, thanks for the down to earth and crystal clear explanation. Looking forward to getting my first machine in due time (on a budget), so I'll probably go for a Lelit Anna 2 PID w/ a Baratza 270 or Eureka Mignon Specialita. Cheers!
Hi Jesse, You are welcome!
Marc
Wow, Thank you so much for this information.
No problem! Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Congrats on the new studio! great looking setup..
Also - keep up the good work. I learn something new each vid
Hi Omri, Thanks for the comment - we will!
Marc
I have been off espresso for a couple years. Just bought a new machine and will be "dialing in" tomorrow morning. Looking forward to the process, kind 'a missed it. My new machine is not well known and designed by Bill Crossland who designed the Starbucks La Marzocco machines. Crossland CC1 is the badge.
4:14
Nice close up shots ❤️
loved your new space, brighter and the background is classic.
Welcome back . Love the new set.
Hi PT R3, Thanks for the comment - it's great to be back! Also, you have not seen it all yet - well maybe if you looked real close at the start of the video you might have noticed the Whole Latte Love Labs to the right. Our new area for more extensive testing and technical videos. As I write this my friend Todd is installing 2 awesome Dalla Corte XT multi-group flow profiling commercial machines. Very exciting!
Marc
Thanks for the great video and congrats on the new studio, very nice!
Hi CK, You are welcome for the video and thank you for the comment!
Marc
wow new places looks amazing!! and custom shirts.. i love my The jack
Hi Chris, Thanks for the comment! I love my The Jack too!
Yes! Welcome back
BsOnK1969 yes, they've been missed
Hi BsOnK1969, Thanks! Great to be back!!!
Marc
Impressive tools, technique and final results
Hi Luiz, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
This video helped me immensely. I tried doing the weigh this, weigh that and every drink came out sour. Tried this and nailed it with exceptional tasting coffee on the 2nd try. Upset i wasted a few bags of coffee, however I’m loving it now.
Hey Mazz, Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience.
Marc
Feel like I've time travelled back 25 years watching this video 😂 great info though 👌
This was an excellent video
Im using a hand grinder with a really poor way of adjusting the grind so hopefully i can nail the dialling in process to help
Hey Matt, Thanks for the comment on the video. Hand grinders can be difficult to get dialed in. Some are better than others. Good luck.
Marc
Great video. Lots on information. Been brewing for 7 years, and while I already knew most of this, still learnt something today. The devil is in the details.
Hi Angel, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
I got too caffeinated while trying to dial in my grind settings. I had a panic attack and had to sell my espresso machine.
Bummer!
haha!
Hahahahahha sorry boo
I'd have a panic attack if I had to get RID of my espresso machine
Omg I hope that doesn't happen to me. In the middle of studying my new machine now
as always! great video Marc!!!
Thanks again!
Marc
Great video
Hi Surf T, Thanks for taking a moment to leave a comment!
Marc
Mark, you would make a fantastic sports announcer! You have that voice and the energy. Radio voice!
Hey Patrick, Thanks so much for the kind comment. NFL promo voice, movie trailers and announcing planetarium star shows are just a few of the voice oriented retirement jobs I'd consider!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Spelling of Marc, got it now! Thanks have a great day.
It’s all good! C or K sounds the same
Great information. I found it very, helpful.
Hey Bob, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it helpful!
Marc
Just perfect !
Always fun to watch always top level always super informative. Wow 🤩
Hi Elliot, Thanks for the comment! If you like this video you'll likely enjoy this one: ruclips.net/video/HTaly8c-i_U/видео.html
Marc
Very informative, thank you.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching.
Marc
Mark, thanks so much as usual for the great videos. I have Quick Mill Silvano machine and I absolutely love it. I also have a fully restored La San Marco SM90 grinder. The grinder is amazing and I get excellent shots, but the large size and the doser along with the grind retention kind of makes it a pain in the butt for one or two shots a day for home use. I noticed that you guys really push the Sette 270 series. Do you think I would be happy with the sette 270? I don't care about noise or anything, I just want something that has low grind retention and is consistent. I also have a separate scale that I used so I'm not worried about the wi series, as I will be weighing everything by myself.
Also, if you don't mind, can you speak on how Sette has been improving the same models over the years, in the sense that the original 270 used to need shims and other things that you would have to order from the company, but now they come with those shims so they are constantly updating and keeping even the same models current.
Thank you so much in advance, and I will be extremely honored if my question gets answered in one of your videos. Hopefully my question helps a lot of others out as well.
I just have manual espresso, but this very helpful, thanx
Hi Andrey, You are welcome and thank you for taking a moment to comment!
Marc
Fantastic video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment!!!
Marc
nice looking set, and shirt!
Hi ec, Thanks for the comment! I like the set too and shirt color works well!
Marc
Mark, I just got my Gaggia Classic from you today. I have a Cuisinart burr grinder that I am afraid will not grind my coffee fine enough after watching this video.
Hi Daniel, you could use the Cuisinart with the pressurized filter basket. But you’re right probably not going to do well in standard brewing in the non-pressurized filter basket. It may get into the fine grinding range for the espresso but lacks the precise control of grind size for dialing in.
Marc
Hi Marc. I actually searched for "spurting" and this video, among others turned up. That's my problem, though. I could be wrong but I don't think my grind/dosing/tamping technique is so far off that I should have continual spurting issues. I've had two extended sessions with this machine, pulling several shots and have gone through a pound of coffee without even coming close to a properly pulled shot, let alone worrying about such niceties as "flavor." I've been a model of patience.
I'm setting the portofilter as firmly as possible without putting every ounce of muscle into it, I can feel it engaging with the gasket. The machine is properly pumping at over 8 bar, but the flow control gauge will not rise over 2 bar. I would be at my wits end, but I am telling myself that this is just another problem to be solved. The coffee is the Orphea. For grind, I'm slightly overfilling the portofilter, leveling with finger without compressing, then spinning with the Jack thing. Then I tamp lightly and spin again. Not using great pressure in this process. Maybe I should be! There's a line on the inside of the Profitec filter basket that I assume is a suggestion on where the coffee should be falling to give enough headroom. Every time the grinds are climbing up the sides of the basket and are all over the surface of the shower screen. One time I got a decent puck but it was a fluke and not repeatable.
To me this is feeling like a basic sealing problem. I have the extra silicone gasket that I could put in, but I am resisting taking this step because I don't think it's going to solve the problem. Any ideas or guidance with this would be greatly appreciated. There are long-time "pullers" that complain about this, but I'm not willing to be one of them. There is a reason for this and I need to know what it is. I'll keep trying in the meantime. Thanks so much. --JohnB
Perfect
Hey Jet, Thanks for the comment!
Marc
Hey Mark,
I'm far from using pro gear with my Breville Infuser and Breville Pro Grinder, but I've been experiencing inconsistency between pulling a shot for my wife, and then myself. I'm using the non-pressurized double basket, and using between 16-17g (the kitchen scale I use rounds to the g instead of 1/10), and I've been trying to shoot for about 42g extracted in 25-30s. First shot is spot on, second shot over extracts, third shot is perfect again. Beans are fresh ground from Whole Foods, and are used between 3-14 days from roast. Any ideas? Could a couple of 1/10s between grinds be messing me up, or is there anything to burr temperature messing with results?
omg thanks for the video
Our pleasure!
Marc
Hello Marc and WholeLatteLove Team; I love your guys' channel!
Im having trouble Re-dialing in older beans
QUESTION: How do older beans effect grind setting? ( Should I grind finer or coarser for old beans?)
damn....this is THE perfect video
Hey JK, Thanks a whole latte for the comment!😉
Marc
Hi Marc. This topic is very timely because I've been having some challenges in the last couple of weeks with my extraction times, and I thought my issues might help others. I've been using a Profitec Pro 500 PID and a Profitec Pro T64 grinder since March when I purchased it from Whole Latte Love. After dialing in my shots when I got the equipment, I've had extremely consistent results with very minor grind adjustments.
Two weeks ago, I started using a new batch of Lavazza Super Crema, which is the same coffee I've been using with great results. My extraction times jumped by more than 10 seconds with the expected bitterness, etc. When I tried to move my grind settings to a coarser setting, my results were not improving, and I started to get more volume of coffee dispensed from the T64 which aggravated the dialing-in process. After much head scratching, I realized that I had not adjusted the TIME of my grinder's dosing function, and the coarser grind was producing more ground coffee faster. After checking my weight of the ground coffee (as I had done when I first established the Time of my dose) my results improved.
I'm still seeing some variability in my results, and the only thing I can see that has changed besides the new bag of coffee is that the humidity in my house has increased recently because we have not had to run Air Conditioning or Heat during a mild period. I don't recall the humidity being as high since March when I got the machines, so that may be what triggered my recent inconsistent results after so many months of amazing coffee. I'd appreciate any thought about the sudden differences I've experienced and if you have any practical suggestions about adjusting the time of the dose vs the grind (so I don't keep wasting so much coffee!). Thanks for your informative videos!
George
Hi George, Thanks for sharing the details of your experience! As you discovered adjusting to a coarser grind with same timing will produce more grounds. As I mentioned in this video grind size is never set and forget! It may need adjustment as a coffee ages, most definitely when switching coffees, and as you found with a new batch of the same beans. Ambient conditions like higher humidity and temperature may have affects as well. My guess is the major factors in your case are the new batch of coffee and increased humidity. I can't say for sure this is what's happening in your case but increases in humidity generally help grinds flow through a grinder due to internal static reduction. You may get a slightly larger coffee dose than average with increased humidity. I unfortunately have no practical suggestions for adjusting grind time with size changes other than finer setting = lower dose and coarser = higher dose. It's a bit of a guessing game to adjust timing when changing grind size but guesses get better as you become more familiar with your grinder. I hope that helps and hope you are enjoying your Pro 500/T64!
Marc
Marc,
I think your message is right on target. The increased humidity probably increased my dose since my time for the dose was unchanged. As I decreased the grind size, I made matters worse! I've experimented with decreased time and a very slight grind size reduction, and my results are significantly improved. Thanks for the tips!
I've been making espresso for many years, but the Profitec equipment responds to very small changes and gives outstanding results when you get it right. I'm very happy with my purchase.
The new set looks great! Will you film a review of the Eureka Zenith 65E? Thank you.
Hi Jason, Thanks for the comment/feedback on the set! I'll see if I can squeeze in a review of the Zenith. Having been down for a few weeks we have a big list to get through!
Marc
Again, thank you! Got my grinding and brewing to the next level. Dialed it in even better, and I've never understood that you should start counting after the first drops come. I'm experiencing new smells and tastes in my shots now. I've got one question though: My shots start pouring after four seconds, but I see yours start after about ten seconds. Do I still have work to do? 😁 And still, you are awesome. To share these tips on RUclips for free! Extremely generous. Thank you, thank you, thank you. /Don
Hi Don, You are welcome and happy to hear we helped take you to the next level. Wasn't that difficult right? Time to first drip can depend on a number of variables. Thing like pump type, coffee used, dose weight and more. So long as your shots are getting better I would not worry about time to first drip.
Marc
Perfect. If you want to agonise about getting absolute perfection (without which your life is not worth living!), there are plenty of other YT videos out there. But, if you want just pretty good method/principles that are simple but get you close, WLL get you there quickly and clearly!
Hi d, Thanks for the comment. We do go next level in this video covering brew ratios: ruclips.net/video/57UqPDirHoU/видео.html
Marc
You are a good teacher sir
Many many thanks
Marc
Thanks for the video. I'm a owner of a Ascaso mini i2 and the grinding adjustment is just terrible, I'm buying actually the Sette 270wi after Christmas it has everything I want.
Hi, You are welcome and thank you for the comment. You will love the 270 Wi!
Marc
With a same grind size I some times get fast extraction and the next one slow extraction. I find that the tampering also influences how the flow comes. I've also not been able to get double (two side by side cups with double spout) to taste correctly. It always flows too quickly what ever the grind size. I have the single close to perfect but can't get the doubles. Normally it's the other way around.
The new studio looks snazzy.
Hi Simon, Thanks for your feedback!
Marc
Great video as always. WIth the same medium roast beans and Profitec 300 what would be the good time between start and first coffee drop? I bet it does matter…
Thanks for a great video which I’ve watched several times. I like to tweak and play around and I have a question. I’m trying the proportion method to dialing in. Weird. I have 17g of ground coffee. Brewing time is about 35 seconds, it makes exactly 2oz of espresso, but weighs around 42 g when brewed.. And to my untrained palette it tastes good! The espresso flows nice and slowly out of the head. Not sure what to tweak in this scenario,,,
Hi PS, You are welcome for the video and thank you for the comment and question! If the volume of your extraction is 2oz(~60ml) and weight is 42g you must have a fair amount of crema in your shots. Your 1:2.5 brew ratio is typical for espresso. All sounds good! If you like the flavor no need tweak anything. No worries on the extraction time of 35 seconds. As mentioned in video the 20-30 second gets you in range but not unusual to go longer.
Marc
Hey Mark! Thank you for theses awesome videos it help me a lot. I just would to know what is your grinder dial setting for the espresso? I have the same grinder and machine on this video.
Thank you
Simo, Wish I could tell you my grind setting. Even if I could It does not mean it's right for your variables! The numbers on the grinder are just references. A 2 setting on mine could produce a very different grind size than 2 on yours. You need to dial in your grind size to fit your particular variables. And remember grind setting is never set and forget! As variables change like bean type, bean age, dose weight, etc your grind will need to be adjusted.
Marc
Hi Mark, Love all your videos. Thanks to you I'm ordering the Gaggia Classic Pro with the Sette 270 this week when I get paid. I'm also getting the IMS shower screen, Baristapro 18 gram basket, IMS silicone group gasket, and IMS holding plate. I'm also getting the Orphea and Jack leveler. I know you always say that grind size is always a variable but can you give me an idea of where to start please? I mean because of you I'm spending over $1000 lol. :)
Hi Quan, Thanks for the comment. Nice setup! In case you missed it I did this live stream last week featuring the Classic Pro, Sette and I was of course using the Orphea: ruclips.net/video/jzvi36qbfhY/видео.html Grind size is a variable and every grinder, even the same make and model is a little different. Beyond that your dose weight and other variables play into grind size. So, as you dial in try and keep everything else as consistent as possible. New out of the box your grind setting will likely be in the 2-5 range on the Sette's macro setting. The Jack works well in the BaristaPro baskets. Set the leveler as deep as possible without causing the adjustment to click to a shallower setting or leaving a mark in the puck. Also keep the leveler free of coffee particles - so brush off between uses. Your Sette will come with shims. After break in with ~8lb/4kg of coffee use the shim(s) to restore fine grinding. Takes about a minute to insert a shim: ruclips.net/video/7sBpJcsF7-4/видео.html Also might want to bookmark our support wiki for the Classic: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Gaggia_Classic Lot's of great info and videos there. Enjoy your new equipment!
Marc
Informative video, as always. Can you recommend a leveler that is equivalent in quality to the Jack Leveler in a 54mm format? I have the Breville Barista Express, and the portafilter baskets are 54mm.
Hi DF, At this point I cannot :(. There may be some knock off levelers in 54mm size but I have not come across one similar in quality and function to The Jack.
Marc
Hi Mark,
Would you recommend the eureka mignon specialita or the sette 270 for the dedica EC685 and profitec pro 300 ? Thanks
this guy is professional
Thanks nebiru!
Missed you! Great homecoming!
Hi TM, I missed doing videos! It's great to be back and thank you for the comment!
Marc
Thanks for all the great videos, bound to become even better.
Can you please expand on the look and feel of grinds. "Between salt (70-300 micrometer) and sugar (700-1400 micrometer) does not come across very well. In fact, visually your grind seems closer to flour (
this video made me realize that espresso making is an art more sophisticated than i am.
I brew double shots exclusively for making lattes using a Expobar office lever heat exchange machine and a Compak K3 grinder. I find to get a 20 second from first drip 60 mI extraction I am having to grind to a fineness that almost clumps the coffee. Is there any difference to the process to note to accomodate for a latte other than what you have outlined in the video?
Great video, thank you.
I recently purchased a Gaggia Classic and a Baratza Sette 30. After trial and error, the grinder is set at 13 for 5.35 seconds using Lavazza Italiano medium roast beans and leveled/tamped with Apexstone leveler; however, my shot are pulling at around 17-20 seconds.
I tried going slightly finer on the grind setting to 12, but the machine chokes. It also chokes or pulls way to slowly when I increase the time from 5:35 seconds to 5:37 or 5:40 seconds to increase the dose size.
Does anyone have any other recommendations? Thank you!
Hi Alex, Thanks for the comment. The Sette 30 is a bit limited in precision of grind size adjustment. With that, it's not a grinder I typically recommend for use in non-pressurized filter baskets. I'm a little surprised that one grind setting change takes you from a 17-20 second extraction to choking the machine. A couple of options: First is to stay at a 13 setting and increase your dose weight slightly to slow down the extraction. Sounds like you've tried that one without success but it should be possible. The other option is to switch out your Sette 30's grind size adjustment assembly with one from the Sette 270 which adds micro adjustment for more precise control of grind size. The 270's macro/micro adjustment can be purchased here: www.baratza.com/shop/sette-270-270w-adjustment-assembly
Hope that helps!
Marc
Is the crema rich in espresso also determined by temperature settings of an espresso machine if I use the same coffee beans, the same portafilter and the same setting of a grinder? Thanks.
Love the Orphea, use it for espresso & drip. Would like to see a similar 'dialing in' video with objective criteria for drip. I have ECM 64Auto & Synchronica and Technivorm drip machine. Also, ever think about creating 'sample packs' (4 - 6 oz). I'm reluctant to "TRY" a kilo. Even my last 1/2 kilo of Maromas (Ethiopian I think) was not to my liking, but was too cheap to just toss it.
Hi Scott, Thanks for the comment. Well, you know I like the Orphea too. As you are probably aware grind size is far less critical in drip prep. And it's very difficult to characterize subtle differences in grind size for drip. It's interesting that Italian roasters like Lavazza produce and market pre-ground coffees for drip in the US. Their pre-ground tends to be far finer than typical bulk pre-ground US brand coffees. Also interesting as drip coffee really does not exist in Italy! My wife and daughter love the Orphea as a long drip style coffee made in a super-automatic espresso machine I have at home. When the wife was with me in Italy last year could not find drip anywhere from Venice to Milan, Rome, Naples, Sorrento. She does not like espresso! Your Technivorm is a great tool for drip. My advice is use flavor as your guide. Keep dose weight consistent and manipulate grind size to adjust flavor. If getting bitter notes grind a little coarser. If sour grind a little finer. As a long (or drip style) coffee I prefer to drink the Orphea (well, most coffees) a little cooler - it lets the flavors come thru more.
The Maromas Ethiopian Sidamo is a very different coffee than the Orphea! It's single origin and very high-altitude grown so much brighter than the Orphea. And like other S.O. coffees it's far more expensive than the blends.
Marc
Hi Marc, once again another amazing video! And lovely looking studio! My question: you mentioned to count time from the first first drip. In the shop where I bought my machine (Profitec 300) they told me I should count the time from the moment I start the shot, meaning pre-infusion included. Usually the pre-infusion on my machine is about 5-6 seconds. So, i am stopping my shot usually at around 25-26 seconds included the pre-infusion, but that would be for me that from the first drip in my case I’m stoping my shot actually at 20 seconds. I am extremely confused now. Please help :-/ how should I count the time then? A million thanks
Hi Leonel, Thanks for the comment on video and studio - great to get the feedback! So I use a lot of different machines. Some with vibration pumps, some with rotary pumps some with pre-infusion and some without. In my mind extraction starts when brew water starts flowing through the coffee. It takes longer for that to happen on a vibration pump than a rotary pump. Pre-infusion should not be included in timing. There's very little flow if any during pre-infusion. Common purpose for pre-infusion is to wet coffee so it swells to help prevent channeling or allow very fresh coffee to off-gas prior to normal pressure extraction starts. Do keep in mind that shot timing is the most basic way of appraising an extraction! Use flavor and brew ratios (if you want to go there) after a grind is dialed in.
Marc
Whole Latte Love thank you Marc! I am amazed with how much time you take for answering these hundreds of questions you get all the time in RUclips. So, if I understand you answer correctly. With my Profitec 300, then I should ignore those first 5-6 seconds when the pump is working and start counting when the first drip is out of the spout right? Thanks again Marc and regards from Switzerland
Science ... thx
Gotta love it!
@@Wholelattelovepage ... every single day. And it’s very addicting !
welcome back
Hi SD, Thanks - it's great to be back!
Marc
Thanks a lot Marc for the detailed information you conducted.
I have a question m in regard to the roast level of the same coffee beans, does it affect the setting of the grinder between the medium roast and dark roast to grind for an espresso?
Hi AA, You are welcome! Grind size would likely be different for the same beans with different roast level. Change any espresso variable and grind size usually needs adjustment. Remember grind size is never set and forget!
Marc
Thanks for the, great video I really learned a, lot and I'm looking forward to, watching the rest of your videos and, by the way I feel like I, can't control my writing and I, pause in weird positions through my, sentences after watching this, video. Kidding aside, great videos!
Lol! Hey AM, thanks... for the... comment. No problem on the kidding! That's my signature delivery style which my children kid me about as well.
Marc
Nice!!!! I just subscribed, what a great video, thanks ti the afford and the good quality of your videos
Hi Diego, Thanks for the kind comment and subscribing!
Marc
Mark, love your instructional videos. I'm always trying to improve my technique with espresso. I'm currently experiencing an issue with dialing in. My setup is a Rocket R60V, Fausto Grinder, Acia Pearl Scales, and an VST 18g basket. I'm in a very dry environment (AC all the time) so I get grind "clumping" when grinding into the VST basket. Question 1; Does this "clumping" affect the extraction? Question 2; I use a 2:1 ratio for extraction, 18g dry coffee for 36g extraction result. When should I take the timing? Is it from the first drip into the cup, or when I pull the handle to start the extraction? Thanks for the feedback and videos. Cheers Sean
Hi Sean, Thanks for the comment and question. Sorry for a delayed response. I've been on vacation for a week and disconnected. First, nice setup! As to your questions...
1. Clumping can affect an extraction. Exactly how much is hard to quantify. I wouldn't worry too much about minor clumps. You can try stirring your grind to break up clumps prior to tamping/leveling.
2. If using brew ratios you are beyond timing extractions so long as they are reasonable in length. As mentioned, I've had great espresso that went 40+ seconds. When using timing to get in the ballpark of reasonable extraction I use first drip to start the clock. A machine like yours with pressure profiling is a perfect example of why first drip is IMO a better place to start. You could be doing a very long low pressure pre-infusion say for a very fresh single origin 100% Arabica coffee to allow for off gassing prior to ramping up to higher pressure for the actual extraction. In that case I would not count the pre-infusion in the shot timing. Hope that helps!
Marc
Whole Latte Love Thanks Marc for the feedback, keep up the great work👌
I wish I have those equipments, except the espresso machine. I prefer profitec pro 500
Dear Marc, i own a Dedica ec685, i know entry level but i am not, just hadn’t enough money to step up for now. Do you have specs for correct dialing for this machine? It’s 51mm basket can brew max 14-15gr so what time would be sufficient for an espresso?
Say Marc, how about a video review of the Breville Precision Coffee Brewer! Considering it as a next purchase. Thanks. Bill
Hi Bill, Will see if I can fit one in. Thanks for the request. I did see it at SCA Expo last year and like. Very interesting heating system for the brew water. If you get one be sure and use high quality water which will not cause scale. That was my main concern from first impression.
Marc
Hi Marc! Love your videos. Looking to get a ECM Classika from you all and deciding whether to get flow control or not. I am concerned that it was be more complicated to dial-in beans with flow control. Do you have a video on dialing in with flow control? Thanks!
Hi NR, Thanks for the kind comment. Here's a link to a live stream playlist with a bunch of very detailed flow control videos: ruclips.net/p/PLaBDDfOHAAC2tlvMR2WZSLjizjGrcIT7H
Dialing in with flow control is quite simple. Set the flow control to 1.25 turns open which gives the stock flow rate of 8g/s on a vibration pump machine and dial-in as you would normally. After that you can use the flow control to modify extractions. In the playlist are 5 different profiles I use. One thing to keep in mind is there's very little reason to ever open the flow control more than 1.5 turns. Beyond 1.5 flow rates get quite high and produce no benefit. My favorite profile is one used on very fresh, lighter roast single origin coffees. it uses a very long low flow pre-infusion with the FC valve open a quarter turn for ~15 seconds or until first drip. Then move up to a moderate flow with the valve open a half turn to finish the shot. It's similar to a Slayer style extraction and does wonders to tame the brightness typical in fresh, high altitude specialty coffees.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Awesome! Planning on getting the machine soon and it’s due to your help. Thank you very much!
Hey Marc, great video! I just received my new Quick mill Pippa and am working on dialing in my shots. The Pippa has an adjustable screw that allows you to change brew pressure. I wanted to ask wouldn't that be another variable that would affect how quickly/slow you extra your espresso as well? Currently when I pull my shots I am getting 3.5 - 4 bar of pressure. Know Quick mill recommended closer to 9-10 bar. Thanks for any clarification on this matter!
Hey Patrick, Your machine should be adjusted to produce QM's recommended 9-10 bar of static pressure. To adjust static pressure insert a backflush disk (blind basket) in the portafilter and turn the pump on. Turn the OPV adjustment screw to produce 9-10 on the gauge. Unless you've already adjusted the OPV seeing 3-4 bar during an extraction indicates your grind is too coarse. Hope that helps!
Marc
Thanks for the great video which I’ve watched several times.
I bought as a beginner the sage barista express and I have a problem which I can not solve. I bought some new Coffee beans and put 17g in the singlewall for double espresso and I can not reach the pressure for the espresso. I tried with the the double wall and the pressure went directly up as you mentioned in your video.
Do you have any suggestions/tip?
Hi s, Thanks for the question. Forget about the pressure gauge for a second and let me ask how is your espresso? Is it coming too fast? If so you need to set the grind finer.
Marc
I have a classic Delonghi ESAM 3300 Super Automatic so I don't have much to set other than grind size, volume amount, and water. Adjusting water setting is easy to get a 1oz shot. But how do choose the grind size and volume of beans for my machine?
Hello Mark!
Why do you choose to start the timer from the first drip vs (as I’ve read I’m some articles) pull the lever. I’m my case using the barista express when the button is pressed there’s about 9-10s of pre infusion before the first drip-what’s your advise with my case too?
Thanks!
Hi Omar, Thanks for the question. I choose to go with first drip as I work with a variety of machines. Some have rotary pumps which build up pressure faster than vibration pump machines. I’m often working with pre-infusion which delays full pressure flow thru the coffee for 5-20 seconds. In my mind extraction starts when brew water is flowing thru the coffee. Depending on machine and/or technique when flow starts can be very different. Keep in mind, timing of extraction is the most basic method of evaluation. It let’s you know you’re in the ballpark.
Marc
Great video, I have seen the shot glass you use, it has 2 pourers on either side. Are these glasses meant for drinking or for pouring into a larger glass thank you
Hi Tugboat, Thanks for your comment and question. They're mostly for pouring but I drink from them all the time when I'm dialing in and tasting! If 2 spouts is not enough we have these shot pitchers with 3! www.wholelattelove.com/products/lf-spare-parts-3-spout-2-oz-shot-glass
Marc