Dunno how this channel isn’t wayyy bigger! Been looking for resources to get me from self building 0 to self building ‘informed novice’ 😂 these are some of the most comprehensive videos so far! Love the component approach to sketch up. Was planning on ‘building’ my house various ways through this, and heck there’s a tutorial for that too! Thanks man
I tried getting on the resources on your website I had no luck. I tried to subscribe which I think I am already and I’m not getting an email. I’ve tried different things. I’ve tried to subscribe using a different username just to get the link and it still didn’t work. Don’t know if this is unique to me or is there an issue with the website? I have no idea. I thought to let you know. Cheers
@halstirrup it’s the website. They are transferring their servers and the certificates are being changed. I’ll get it sorted in the next few days. Sorry about that
I’ve just discovered the channel. This is absolute gold. I’m a chippy builder myself and you have to be one of the most learned people I’ve come across - and you’re sharing your knowledge for free! Lap it up people! I’ll be watching the rest of your videos for sure, and showing them to my apprentices as an excellent learning resource. Great work, keep them coming.
@@build-better-things when someone like you can save someone like me £1000’s of pounds, it’s the least I can do. I’ve started telling friends about the work you do. For anyone watching these vids, at least like, comment and subscribe, it costs nothing and promotes further vids.
I’ve commented elsewhere on this, but I don’t agree it’s a fraction of the cost and for small projects, the opposite is true versus the two methods I compared.
After finding your channel, I’ve really enjoyed the content you put out. You’re explanations, openness to critique, and comparisons are thorough. Thank you!
Thanks for the clip, another well detailed and edited explanation. New to the channel and the wealth of clips you have are appreciated. Cheers, Richie.
Another good thing to think about in would be how easy and cost effective is it to utilise UFH with both types, both as an integrated installation or as a retrofit.
I’ve done some bits and pieces around my home, including laying slabs, brickwork, tiling etc etc. I have to say, your videos have almost instilled me with enough confidence to do anything building related. My next big thing will be a loft conversion, so if you haven’t already covered this. I’d love to see something. My biggest fear is not properly reinforcing the joist’s to be load bearing. Thanks for the content!!
Hi. Some of my early videos showed loft conversions. This one for example ATTIC CONVERSION START TO FINISH - Architect Builder shows you how in 8 minutes ruclips.net/video/4X9_J4cskFE/видео.html Reinforcing the joists is actually quite straightforward and allows the opportunity to get a super level and squeak free new floor.
Great video and comparisons. Couple of bits I do slightly differently lately, where possible:- - For perimeter insulation, specify Marmox or similar Thermo blocks to the inner leaf block work, instead of screed perimeter insulation. - Been looking at using multi foil insulations on a couple of projects lately for timber floors. Much easier to drape it over joists and staple,rather than cutting PIR boards between joists.
On the multi foil, some local authorities will not accept the heat loss calculations for these products. I’ve also yet to see a clear explanation by these manufacturers of a direct comparison with PIR in terms of thermal transfer. You would also need to introduce a secondary set of battens for optimal performance of the foil since it needs air layer both sides
What do you think the cost of a block and beam floor would look like. Is that a medium between concrete and wooden floor? Thinking of doing one for a SIP extention as I have a drop of 500cm and that would take a lot of filling in!
Ground screws are fine for smaller projects such as outbuildings . It’s just easier for me to use concrete mini piles, partly due to cost, being cheaper, and partly due to the fact I prefer not to rely on specialist trades which can hold up the entire project when they can’t turn up when they said they would. If you are happy with your quote and they are reliable, then go for it.
The joists will be fine uncovered for a period provided they are treated, as they should be. If you’re using chipboard you could consider a weatherproof product such as Egger protect.
Can I ask a question please, I want to build a conservatory, I’ll come out of the ground with two courses? Of brick work, I want the walls to be timber frame with cladding over, how thick does my wall need to be, hopefully not a dumb question, thank you.
Great video Jerry. I assume if underfloor heating is planned it's better to go concrete so that you get the better performance of pipes embedded in screed? Next question is how to decide whether to have the concrete over or under the insulation? My original architect specced insulation above concrete, then screed on top. I'm also trying to figure out how to build the extension and cover the existing house with external insulation. The junction between the two is a difficult detail to figure out.
Thanks a lot. For new build, underfloor heating is as easy with timber as it is for concrete. It’s just if you have an existing timber floor, under floor heating is a bit trickier. Concrete should always go over the insulation. If your architect is specifying it the other way, then they’re not understanding the thermal conductivity properties. You want the concrete to be on the warm side, like the rest of your structure to avoid differential movement.
I'm a complete novice, can you please explain to me why you put concrete on top of insulation? Does that not create risk with stability when the insulation deteriorates?
Hi. The insulation will not deteriorate and s long as the sand that the insulation sits on is dead level, there is nowhere for it to move to. The reason you want the concrete on top of the insulation, on the warm side, is because you want all your structural elements at the same temperature, so your inner leaf at the cavity wall is warm, like your floor, so you reduce differential movement. Architects, builders and specifiers who show the concrete on the cold side, below the insulation, yet have their inner wall leafs on the warm side, show that they don’t understand thermal performance of these elements over the lifespan of a building.
Thanks for your work on this channel chief, while I'll probably still use contractors for much of my planned renovation at least you've armed me with enough knowledge to reduce the chances I'll be taken for a ride by some cowbow hah. In terms of outliers to consider; external wall insulation. I'll be trying to eco-up a 1950's brick built cavity wall semi(already cavity filled by previous owner) with it and an MVHR among other interventions, and while I've seen a few people online who've managed to wrangle their local BCO into signing off on an airtight underfloor cavity filled with insulation(EPS or foamglass beads) it's a faff & a half and the insulation cost eats into the savings from going with timber. Putting in enough vents to meet modern code would mean having to use one-way membranes to seal up the walls of the underfloor cavity as well as on top of the floor or else every mortar joint is a potential air leak into the cavity and so the whole internal wall, or you have to strip and membrane all the internal walls as well, and even then you're introducing cold air into your thermal envelope and risking interstitial condensation in your cavity. With concrete there's no hassle about sealing up the external vents, and the various layers of adhesive and render involved in the EWI system will result in a decent air seal providing you use membrane to bring it over the top of the cavity and join up to an internal membrane in the loft conversion - not Passivehaus level, but pretty decent. Another thing to consider is radon mitigation. Personally I'd be much more comfortable with the multiple layers of seal you get with a thicker concrete pour with a passive radon sump buried underneath than relying on the cavity ventilation itself to clear it out, or putting the sump in with only the membrane and blinding layer for the timber floor.
Cheers for the great videos. Excellent advice especially when it comes to timber frame construction techniques as this is what I’m planning as a self builder (doing a single story house extension). I’m curious if you’ve experience with screw pile foundations as this is a possible option for us due to ground close to many mature trees.
Screw pile foundations are fine, sometimes I prefer mini piles and rods in those situations where there is roots, since I don’t have to rely on an outside contractor on such a time critical element, plus, doing your own mini piles is cheaper and, most importantly, rewarding.
Thanks for the reply. I’m currently fact finding potential options and how each affects the design and build. The extension is over a slope so would be a nice design feature to build it off legs with space underneath. Self build and cost limitations will ultimately dictate what I do.
Or you could use a raised concrete floor. Very common in large parts of the Netherlands, because A) the ground is very wet for large parts of the year B) because you need piers anyhow, to reach the stable sand layer underneath the unstable peat layer.
I think there’s more work in that method for little gain. If you’re a volume house builder then yes it starts to have many benefits. Thanks a lot for your comment.
The one thing not addressed is the U-values and airtightness. If those of the concrete are superior, that would change the cost over ten, twenty, however many years - a floor lasts a long time. Maybe concrete would win long term? Any calculation as to how they compare?
I addressed the comparative u values and mentioned another video I’ve done in detail on it. Are you sure you watched the video?? Air tightness is not proportional to u value, it’s specific to every project.
@@build-better-things I did watch it all, I saw the bit about the building regs U value, so I take it this was both floors straight specced to that U-value? I'm probably looking for the wrong thing in this video, and the other one, my apologies! I hadn't really articulated it properly even to myself. So: I'm trying to learn which floor can achieve the best values most easily or cheaply. That's a different question to the one you set out to answer, I realise, but do you have a take on it? If you were to try to put in the maximum insulation each of those floors could accommodate, be whether the limit is depth or strength, rather than equally meet the regs equally for both, can you say which could achieve most,? Or how much the difference would be? Would it affect the cost consideration or not, or not much? I feel there ought to be some table or calculator somewhere online, but I haven't found one! I ask because I'm looking at our own home, long term, so doing the best possible rather than the regs makes sense. The last time we renovated, in the 1990s, we went beyond the regs to a degree that the architect and builders told us was mad; but by the time we left it five years ago, it barely met the current regs on some measures, and would have completely missed on things like airtightness. It was sobering.
The comparison showed concrete and timber floors, the cost to achieve exactly the same u value. If it was not clear, that is my fault. To answer your question, I would always go for a timber floor, less cost, less work, easier, faster, more options on thermal transfer. People (engineers, architects, builders) choose concrete because they’ve always done it that way, not because it’s an optimal solution. Best of luck.
Hi Jerry, great video! In this one, you show the construction detail for a timber floor with a brick/block cavity wall. Do you have a similar construction detail for the suspended timber floor with the timber frame that you used in the extension build on your channel? I’m struggling to understand how the wall plate for the suspended timber floor should be chemically fixed to the blockwork while also having a chemical fix for the sole plate in the same block. Perhaps this isn’t the correct method, but I’m finding it difficult to locate any illustrations that follow the approach you used for the floors/walls in your extension video.
Although I showed masonry walls for both examples for the floor comparison for consistency, the reality is I will always choose timber frame for the inner leaf. For your wall plates, I wouldn’t chemically fix them, I would use metal holding down straps to secure them, fixing them to the trench block over the top of DPC, in the cavity. I think I showed that in my extension walkthrough. Why do I prefer timber frame? I explain it in this vid. Hopefully I’m understanding your question TIMBER FRAME v BRICK BLOCK Masonry- House Extension walls - Architect Builder’s 5 expert tips ruclips.net/video/HHunXgidQL4/видео.html
@@build-better-things Hi Jerry, thanks again for your help! I’ve done more research, but I’m still unclear on the best way to fix the sole/sill plate to the brickwork. Most of the details I’ve come across show the sole plate being anchor bolted to the blockwork, with the suspended timber floor sitting on top. However, it sounds like you prefer using wall plate straps instead-am I understanding that correctly? For my project, I’m designing a single leaf wall with timber battens for a render board, with brickwork below the DPC. My concern is the brickwork width, which is 102.5mm, compared to the 140mm timber I plan to use. Wouldn’t that create an overhang issue when fixing the timber? How would you typically address this? I’ve noticed they sell 140mm concrete blocks, which could suit the wider timber, but the challenge is covering them up since they’re quite unsightly. Any suggestions on how to approach this?"
@TheMarkc93 yes, use straps. I’m not understanding exactly why you’re using 140 studs. If you use 89mm then you can keep with your bricks. But, for 140 studs there’s always options. I just can’t really explain them here in words.
Always packed with info and good to see comparisons through CAD. I’ve recently bought a development property and have a small extension at the rear that needs demolishing with a new larger one in place. Only issue is east and south facing sides of the extension back up to a 2.2m granite wall being south and 3m granite wall being east. What’s the best strategy timber frame or block? We’ve come to the conclusion of surecav with a cavity or dry packed then block work. But wouldn’t mind using timber frame, is there any regulations to where the timber frame is made (work shop) or on site
I’ve talked about this in another video, I’ll always try to go timber frame over masonry, so many advantages . No problem in assembling the timber frame on site. I’ve also built wall panels in workshop and then to site in a flat bed. I just made a video recently if you have a check.
Hi Jerry i’m at a crossroads now. Large open plan renovation and floor needs to be dug up with costs going out of control. Builder has suggested doing Hardcore, Sand, dpm, 150mm pir insulation, another layer of dpm, underfloor heating pipes and then a 65mm poor of screed. This is avoiding a double pour pf concrete about €2k in Ireland and labour saving of about €500. Means we wont have a concrete subfloor and losing sleep over this. Whats your thoughts on not going with the subfloor and will this be risky? I’m also in Ireland and no inspector, area is 9x9m Great video and thanks
Hi. I don’t understand the need for 2 layers of DPM, but other than that, your first paragraph of spec seems ok. Only thing you need to understand is that your underfloor heating will then have to heat up the slab but if you get your insulation right, should reflect that back to make it reasonably efficient. For underfloor heating, often they try to insulate directly under the pipes, although i am not a fan, as the main structure, ie the slab, is at a different temperature. To your second para and I’m probably being dumb, but I don’t understand what you mean about two pours.
@ really appreciate the reply. The second layer of DPM (Barrier) to sit over the PIR insulation so the concrete is not poured directly on to the Insulation. The UFH pipework is to be clipped on top of this and then 65mm screed poured. Have been told the screed will act as the thermal mass and 150mm of insulation reflect up and mitigate heatloss to the ground. I will tape and joint the PIR and typically its shown to use 25mm perimeter of insulation but your video suggests 60mm so I will go with that. What I mean by two pours one concrete pour (150mm) and a second screed pour of 65mm. Hope that makes sense. Diy builds are very stressful and acting as the PM is just as hard as doing the work. Thanks
I understand it’s stressful but you are asking all the right questions so you are going to succeed 🥹🙂. You can pour directly into insulation despite what your builder might be saying to you. No need for a second layer of DPM Yes, 60mm perimeter.
wow just came across your channel after making this vey decision. I went with timber but one difference is that im using masonry hangers. Do you have any videos or advise on using masonry hangers?
I tend to avoid masonry hangers. I prefer to attach a timber joist to the masonry (spaced off with shims or use dpc) with resined bolts, and then use timber joist hangers to that rail. I have found it easier to get totally level. But masonry hangers ok if that’s what you prefer.
Thanks for another awesome video! Love you content! Am working on getting my side return done on an Edwardian end of terrace done . I have a timber floor and my things is better to have concrete slap instead of timber floor even though the timber floor is sound and I’ve got I believe 800 mm void underneath. If I do all the timber floor myself, I think it will be cheaper than your comparison given. I don’t have to pay for a labourer and a skilled labourer.. and it seems I get a better thermal resistance with the timber floor than concrete. Would you agree?
Yes I agree. I am putting another video together on that. If you have 800 below, I would add 60mm PIR to the underside as well as 100mm between, putting the PIR between the joists to the bottom of the joists this time, hard up against the 60mm. Thanks a lot for your comment again.
Good video. Ground permitting, i'll choose concrete all day long though. A 22% saving on just the foundation costs is not a deal breaker for me. Unless you are talking really big builds. I like things bomb proof :)
@@build-better-things Unfortunately for many it's just "that's the way I do it" or "that's the way it's done" without regard to the situation or site. "It depends" is rarely heard but so often the case with building.
You know somebody trully understands a subject matter when they tell you they dont have a definative answer, even though they understand all the intricacies.
I've been watching a new build estate go up and they seem to be using concrete slab as opposed to a wooden floor. Why would they do that rather than the cheaper option? Are there other factors at play here?
Great question. I’m not entirely sure of the circumstance, but… there’s a strange reluctance in England specifically to timber frame, instead to stick with masonry and concrete, Scotland has embraced timber frame… my guess would be that the contractors are bringing in plant and machinery… pumping the concrete, going around each plot and pumping it in super quickly, economies of volume make it a different proposition to my examples. But…don’t get me started about volume house builders.
Every builder prices work differently so that one can prove a timber construction is cheaper and another that concrete is cheaper and then there is the builder's culture i.e. whether the small builder started life as a chippy or a brickie or any other trade because they will favour their own trade solution. Then you factor in a myriad of local conditions and its a complete lottery as to whether one system is cheaper than the other and what those costs should be. The two specifications shown here are not that common and there are various other specs that would satisfy the project requirements. Also, of note is that a goodly number of the house builders, who have less fluctuating circumstances actually favour beam and block construction, which is an amalgam of the two systems, concrete joists with concrete block infill. I have used this to good effect on houses and commercial premises for years, now also specifying it for first floor construction in domestic premises.
@@build-better-things I can assure you that there are only one of several ways to achieve the same details. The video implied that these were the only two options..
I really don't like the way the UK does slab on grade foundations. The US have developed some excellent assemblies, and we should really adopt them, here's an example from one of my favourite building science communicators: ruclips.net/video/KDLkbpraC4A/видео.htmlsi=c0AJhPxxiK_HJcun Same can be said for suspended timber floor systems. There are "conditioned" or "encapsulated" crawl spaces where the ventilated void is separated from exterior air, the insulation can be moved to the perimeter, or onto the ground. Again, this seems like a much better system and we should change our ways. ruclips.net/video/3YOIzEzEwWo/видео.htmlsi=T0NkkhoHWsiNcFPt
I don’t think you watched the video. Nobody is earning 500 a day. You say you’re in the industry. Self employed skilled workers can earn 300 when you consider their overheads, insurance etc. same for semi skilled at 200. No homeowner is ever going to be paying salaries, which, naturally, are going to be lower. I also said, if you don’t agree with the figures, download the spreadsheet and put in your own labour rates.
If you read the spreadsheet it says 2 people per day. skilled labour + unskilled for 300+200. There's your 500 per day. Maybe there should be a separate cell for skilled and can read.
I feel like the key thing here is the quality of the native soil. It takes a professional who is very smart and experienced (and maybe a little lucky) to identify that a piece of native soil will stay the same for 100 years and doesn't need a concrete slab.
Chipboard will definitely perform admirably, won’t bounce won’t squeak, provided it’s laid correctly. The size of the floor is irrelevant. If you want to do the extra work for your structural plywood, then go for it.
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Dunno how this channel isn’t wayyy bigger! Been looking for resources to get me from self building 0 to self building ‘informed novice’ 😂 these are some of the most comprehensive videos so far! Love the component approach to sketch up. Was planning on ‘building’ my house various ways through this, and heck there’s a tutorial for that too! Thanks man
Thanks to you too for taking the time to comment. Best of luck with the self building.
Another excellent video of the comparison between timber frame and concrete construction methods. Well done and keep em coming
Thanks a lot. Have a few more on the way.
I tried getting on the resources on your website I had no luck. I tried to subscribe which I think I am already and I’m not getting an email. I’ve tried different things. I’ve tried to subscribe using a different username just to get the link and it still didn’t work. Don’t know if this is unique to me or is there an issue with the website? I have no idea. I thought to let you know. Cheers
@halstirrup it’s the website. They are transferring their servers and the certificates are being changed. I’ll get it sorted in the next few days. Sorry about that
This channel is pure gold.
Thank you.
I’ve just discovered the channel. This is absolute gold. I’m a chippy builder myself and you have to be one of the most learned people I’ve come across - and you’re sharing your knowledge for free! Lap it up people!
I’ll be watching the rest of your videos for sure, and showing them to my apprentices as an excellent learning resource. Great work, keep them coming.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to comment, it’s a great encouragement from you.
By far the best explanation of the job as always, Kudos. My go-to channel for clear guidance on a particular job.
Thanks a lot. Appreciate you taking the time to say so.
@@build-better-things when someone like you can save someone like me £1000’s of pounds, it’s the least I can do. I’ve started telling friends about the work you do. For anyone watching these vids, at least like, comment and subscribe, it costs nothing and promotes further vids.
the block and beam flooring system is game changer.
best of both worlds at a fraction of the cost.
There have been a few comments about this. Could we have a follow-up video showing how this would compare, please?
I’ve commented elsewhere on this, but I don’t agree it’s a fraction of the cost and for small projects, the opposite is true versus the two methods I compared.
Rationality and thoroughness. A breath of fresh air applying design to the realities of construction - and visa versa. Thank you.
After finding your channel, I’ve really enjoyed the content you put out. You’re explanations, openness to critique, and comparisons are thorough. Thank you!
Thanks. Really appreciate comments like this.
Thanks for explaining, it's interesting to see the perspective of knowledgable person and learn from you. Love your videos about construction.
Thank you
Thanks for the clip, another well detailed and edited explanation. New to the channel and the wealth of clips you have are appreciated. Cheers, Richie.
Thanks a lot for the comment.
Another good thing to think about in would be how easy and cost effective is it to utilise UFH with both types, both as an integrated installation or as a retrofit.
I’ve done some bits and pieces around my home, including laying slabs, brickwork, tiling etc etc. I have to say, your videos have almost instilled me with enough confidence to do anything building related. My next big thing will be a loft conversion, so if you haven’t already covered this. I’d love to see something. My biggest fear is not properly reinforcing the joist’s to be load bearing. Thanks for the content!!
Hi. Some of my early videos showed loft conversions. This one for example
ATTIC CONVERSION START TO FINISH - Architect Builder shows you how in 8 minutes
ruclips.net/video/4X9_J4cskFE/видео.html
Reinforcing the joists is actually quite straightforward and allows the opportunity to get a super level and squeak free new floor.
A-mazing. I’ll be watching these as soon as I finish work today. Thank you for the reply!!
Great video and comparisons. Couple of bits I do slightly differently lately, where possible:-
- For perimeter insulation, specify Marmox or similar Thermo blocks to the inner leaf block work, instead of screed perimeter insulation.
- Been looking at using multi foil insulations on a couple of projects lately for timber floors. Much easier to drape it over joists and staple,rather than cutting PIR boards between joists.
On the multi foil, some local authorities will not accept the heat loss calculations for these products. I’ve also yet to see a clear explanation by these manufacturers of a direct comparison with PIR in terms of thermal transfer. You would also need to introduce a secondary set of battens for optimal performance of the foil since it needs air layer both sides
Wondering about T or block and beams with screed on top.
What do you think the cost of a block and beam floor would look like. Is that a medium between concrete and wooden floor?
Thinking of doing one for a SIP extention as I have a drop of 500cm and that would take a lot of filling in!
Really excellent video! No messing around!
Another super informative video, thank you! Any thoughts on ground screws for a timber framed and clad outbuilding?
Ground screws are fine for smaller projects such as outbuildings . It’s just easier for me to use concrete mini piles, partly due to cost, being cheaper, and partly due to the fact I prefer not to rely on specialist trades which can hold up the entire project when they can’t turn up when they said they would. If you are happy with your quote and they are reliable, then go for it.
@@build-better-things Thanks for the fast reply. Do you have a video on mini piles? I guess using mini piles means no need to dig a trench foundation?
@mattrumpus Cement, Sand & Aggregate Concrete mix explained - DIY Spreadsheet
ruclips.net/video/83ZzGLx1JCc/видео.html
Hand mix Concrete - My simple 4 step method
ruclips.net/video/WnaL-5UdKKM/видео.html
About to construct a base / foundation and for me the worry is weather with a wooden floor approx 8 sq metres .Trying to cover during construction
The joists will be fine uncovered for a period provided they are treated, as they should be. If you’re using chipboard you could consider a weatherproof product such as Egger protect.
@ Thanks but now considering a small block and beam set up . Will keep you posted ( very much retired)
Brilliant, i was just wondering about this very topic recently and low and behold! Nice one thanks for sharing
Can I ask a question please, I want to build a conservatory, I’ll come out of the ground with two courses? Of brick work, I want the walls to be timber frame with cladding over, how thick does my wall need to be, hopefully not a dumb question, thank you.
Great video. With your sketchup models, do you use skalp plugin to create your section hatches? Thanks
Hi. Yes I do. There are other plug ins that do the same, but I’ve found that’s the best for me.
Great video Jerry. I assume if underfloor heating is planned it's better to go concrete so that you get the better performance of pipes embedded in screed? Next question is how to decide whether to have the concrete over or under the insulation? My original architect specced insulation above concrete, then screed on top. I'm also trying to figure out how to build the extension and cover the existing house with external insulation. The junction between the two is a difficult detail to figure out.
Thanks a lot. For new build, underfloor heating is as easy with timber as it is for concrete. It’s just if you have an existing timber floor, under floor heating is a bit trickier. Concrete should always go over the insulation. If your architect is specifying it the other way, then they’re not understanding the thermal conductivity properties. You want the concrete to be on the warm side, like the rest of your structure to avoid differential movement.
Thank you for the comparison this was very helpfull, you are wonderful
I'm a complete novice, can you please explain to me why you put concrete on top of insulation? Does that not create risk with stability when the insulation deteriorates?
Hi. The insulation will not deteriorate and s long as the sand that the insulation sits on is dead level, there is nowhere for it to move to. The reason you want the concrete on top of the insulation, on the warm side, is because you want all your structural elements at the same temperature, so your inner leaf at the cavity wall is warm, like your floor, so you reduce differential movement. Architects, builders and specifiers who show the concrete on the cold side, below the insulation, yet have their inner wall leafs on the warm side, show that they don’t understand thermal performance of these elements over the lifespan of a building.
@@build-better-things Thank you. Your explanation makes sense but I don't think I've ever seen something like this.
Thanks for your work on this channel chief, while I'll probably still use contractors for much of my planned renovation at least you've armed me with enough knowledge to reduce the chances I'll be taken for a ride by some cowbow hah.
In terms of outliers to consider; external wall insulation. I'll be trying to eco-up a 1950's brick built cavity wall semi(already cavity filled by previous owner) with it and an MVHR among other interventions, and while I've seen a few people online who've managed to wrangle their local BCO into signing off on an airtight underfloor cavity filled with insulation(EPS or foamglass beads) it's a faff & a half and the insulation cost eats into the savings from going with timber. Putting in enough vents to meet modern code would mean having to use one-way membranes to seal up the walls of the underfloor cavity as well as on top of the floor or else every mortar joint is a potential air leak into the cavity and so the whole internal wall, or you have to strip and membrane all the internal walls as well, and even then you're introducing cold air into your thermal envelope and risking interstitial condensation in your cavity. With concrete there's no hassle about sealing up the external vents, and the various layers of adhesive and render involved in the EWI system will result in a decent air seal providing you use membrane to bring it over the top of the cavity and join up to an internal membrane in the loft conversion - not Passivehaus level, but pretty decent.
Another thing to consider is radon mitigation. Personally I'd be much more comfortable with the multiple layers of seal you get with a thicker concrete pour with a passive radon sump buried underneath than relying on the cavity ventilation itself to clear it out, or putting the sump in with only the membrane and blinding layer for the timber floor.
This is great stuff. I figured that concrete would be cheaper but I understand why it isn’t now… thanks
Thanks again. Both have pros and cons but I’ll usually opt for timber for practical reasons as well.
Cheers for the great videos. Excellent advice especially when it comes to timber frame construction techniques as this is what I’m planning as a self builder (doing a single story house extension). I’m curious if you’ve experience with screw pile foundations as this is a possible option for us due to ground close to many mature trees.
Screw pile foundations are fine, sometimes I prefer mini piles and rods in those situations where there is roots, since I don’t have to rely on an outside contractor on such a time critical element, plus, doing your own mini piles is cheaper and, most importantly, rewarding.
Thanks for the reply. I’m currently fact finding potential options and how each affects the design and build. The extension is over a slope so would be a nice design feature to build it off legs with space underneath. Self build and cost limitations will ultimately dictate what I do.
Or you could use a raised concrete floor. Very common in large parts of the Netherlands, because A) the ground is very wet for large parts of the year B) because you need piers anyhow, to reach the stable sand layer underneath the unstable peat layer.
I think there’s more work in that method for little gain. If you’re a volume house builder then yes it starts to have many benefits. Thanks a lot for your comment.
@@build-better-things I agree it will not make sense in an arid climate, but it can save you a lot of problems in wetter climates.
The one thing not addressed is the U-values and airtightness. If those of the concrete are superior, that would change the cost over ten, twenty, however many years - a floor lasts a long time. Maybe concrete would win long term? Any calculation as to how they compare?
I addressed the comparative u values and mentioned another video I’ve done in detail on it. Are you sure you watched the video?? Air tightness is not proportional to u value, it’s specific to every project.
@@build-better-things I did watch it all, I saw the bit about the building regs U value, so I take it this was both floors straight specced to that U-value? I'm probably looking for the wrong thing in this video, and the other one, my apologies! I hadn't really articulated it properly even to myself. So: I'm trying to learn which floor can achieve the best values most easily or cheaply.
That's a different question to the one you set out to answer, I realise, but do you have a take on it? If you were to try to put in the maximum insulation each of those floors could accommodate, be whether the limit is depth or strength, rather than equally meet the regs equally for both, can you say which could achieve most,? Or how much the difference would be? Would it affect the cost consideration or not, or not much? I feel there ought to be some table or calculator somewhere online, but I haven't found one!
I ask because I'm looking at our own home, long term, so doing the best possible rather than the regs makes sense. The last time we renovated, in the 1990s, we went beyond the regs to a degree that the architect and builders told us was mad; but by the time we left it five years ago, it barely met the current regs on some measures, and would have completely missed on things like airtightness. It was sobering.
The comparison showed concrete and timber floors, the cost to achieve exactly the same u value. If it was not clear, that is my fault. To answer your question, I would always go for a timber floor, less cost, less work, easier, faster, more options on thermal transfer. People (engineers, architects, builders) choose concrete because they’ve always done it that way, not because it’s an optimal solution. Best of luck.
Hi, you recommend timber frame for small project . Do you have a figure of how small . I mean after which the timber frame is not recommended. Thanks
The smaller the project, the more I’ll be inclined to use timber frame. The smaller the project, the less likely I’ll be to use concrete.
Hi Jerry, great video! In this one, you show the construction detail for a timber floor with a brick/block cavity wall. Do you have a similar construction detail for the suspended timber floor with the timber frame that you used in the extension build on your channel? I’m struggling to understand how the wall plate for the suspended timber floor should be chemically fixed to the blockwork while also having a chemical fix for the sole plate in the same block. Perhaps this isn’t the correct method, but I’m finding it difficult to locate any illustrations that follow the approach you used for the floors/walls in your extension video.
Although I showed masonry walls for both examples for the floor comparison for consistency, the reality is I will always choose timber frame for the inner leaf. For your wall plates, I wouldn’t chemically fix them, I would use metal holding down straps to secure them, fixing them to the trench block over the top of DPC, in the cavity. I think I showed that in my extension walkthrough. Why do I prefer timber frame? I explain it in this vid. Hopefully I’m understanding your question
TIMBER FRAME v BRICK BLOCK Masonry- House Extension walls - Architect Builder’s 5 expert tips
ruclips.net/video/HHunXgidQL4/видео.html
@@build-better-things Hi Jerry, thanks again for your help! I’ve done more research, but I’m still unclear on the best way to fix the sole/sill plate to the brickwork. Most of the details I’ve come across show the sole plate being anchor bolted to the blockwork, with the suspended timber floor sitting on top. However, it sounds like you prefer using wall plate straps instead-am I understanding that correctly?
For my project, I’m designing a single leaf wall with timber battens for a render board, with brickwork below the DPC. My concern is the brickwork width, which is 102.5mm, compared to the 140mm timber I plan to use. Wouldn’t that create an overhang issue when fixing the timber? How would you typically address this? I’ve noticed they sell 140mm concrete blocks, which could suit the wider timber, but the challenge is covering them up since they’re quite unsightly. Any suggestions on how to approach this?"
@TheMarkc93 yes, use straps. I’m not understanding exactly why you’re using 140 studs. If you use 89mm then you can keep with your bricks. But, for 140 studs there’s always options. I just can’t really explain them here in words.
Always packed with info and good to see comparisons through CAD.
I’ve recently bought a development property and have a small extension at the rear that needs demolishing with a new larger one in place. Only issue is east and south facing sides of the extension back up to a 2.2m granite wall being south and 3m granite wall being east. What’s the best strategy timber frame or block?
We’ve come to the conclusion of surecav with a cavity or dry packed then block work. But wouldn’t mind using timber frame, is there any regulations to where the timber frame is made (work shop) or on site
I’ve talked about this in another video, I’ll always try to go timber frame over masonry, so many advantages . No problem in assembling the timber frame on site. I’ve also built wall panels in workshop and then to site in a flat bed. I just made a video recently if you have a check.
Hi Jerry i’m at a crossroads now. Large open plan renovation and floor needs to be dug up with costs going out of control. Builder has suggested doing Hardcore, Sand, dpm, 150mm pir insulation, another layer of dpm, underfloor heating pipes and then a 65mm poor of screed.
This is avoiding a double pour pf concrete about €2k in Ireland and labour saving of about €500. Means we wont have a concrete subfloor and losing sleep over this. Whats your thoughts on not going with the subfloor and will this be risky? I’m also in Ireland and no inspector, area is 9x9m
Great video and thanks
Hi. I don’t understand the need for 2 layers of DPM, but other than that, your first paragraph of spec seems ok. Only thing you need to understand is that your underfloor heating will then have to heat up the slab but if you get your insulation right, should reflect that back to make it reasonably efficient. For underfloor heating, often they try to insulate directly under the pipes, although i am not a fan, as the main structure, ie the slab, is at a different temperature. To your second para and I’m probably being dumb, but I don’t understand what you mean about two pours.
@ really appreciate the reply. The second layer of DPM (Barrier) to sit over the PIR insulation so the concrete is not poured directly on to the Insulation. The UFH pipework is to be clipped on top of this and then 65mm screed poured. Have been told the screed will act as the thermal mass and 150mm of insulation reflect up and mitigate heatloss to the ground.
I will tape and joint the PIR and typically its shown to use 25mm perimeter of insulation but your video suggests 60mm so I will go with that.
What I mean by two pours one concrete pour (150mm) and a second screed pour of 65mm. Hope that makes sense.
Diy builds are very stressful and acting as the PM is just as hard as doing the work.
Thanks
I understand it’s stressful but you are asking all the right questions so you are going to succeed 🥹🙂. You can pour directly into insulation despite what your builder might be saying to you. No need for a second layer of DPM Yes, 60mm perimeter.
Thanks excellent help
good clear video.
wow just came across your channel after making this vey decision. I went with timber but one difference is that im using masonry hangers. Do you have any videos or advise on using masonry hangers?
I tend to avoid masonry hangers. I prefer to attach a timber joist to the masonry (spaced off with shims or use dpc) with resined bolts, and then use timber joist hangers to that rail. I have found it easier to get totally level. But masonry hangers ok if that’s what you prefer.
@@build-better-things thanks the prompt reply. Do you have a drawing or specification you show me.
also why do you avoid masonry hangers?
There’s more work involved with masonry hangers (in my experience)
Thanks for another awesome video! Love you content! Am working on getting my side return done on an Edwardian end of terrace done . I have a timber floor and my things is better to have concrete slap instead of timber floor even though the timber floor is sound and I’ve got I believe 800 mm void underneath. If I do all the timber floor myself, I think it will be cheaper than your comparison given. I don’t have to pay for a labourer and a skilled labourer.. and it seems I get a better thermal resistance with the timber floor than concrete. Would you agree?
Yes I agree. I am putting another video together on that. If you have 800 below, I would add 60mm PIR to the underside as well as 100mm between, putting the PIR between the joists to the bottom of the joists this time, hard up against the 60mm. Thanks a lot for your comment again.
We live and learn! I have learned so much from you! One of kind . Really appreciate it man!
Good video. Ground permitting, i'll choose concrete all day long though. A 22% saving on just the foundation costs is not a deal breaker for me. Unless you are talking really big builds. I like things bomb proof :)
Great thing is in building, there’s rarely a right or wrong answer. Usually an “it depends” answer. Thanks for the comment.
@@build-better-things Unfortunately for many it's just "that's the way I do it" or "that's the way it's done" without regard to the situation or site. "It depends" is rarely heard but so often the case with building.
You know somebody trully understands a subject matter when they tell you they dont have a definative answer,
even though they understand all the intricacies.
I've been watching a new build estate go up and they seem to be using concrete slab as opposed to a wooden floor. Why would they do that rather than the cheaper option? Are there other factors at play here?
Great question. I’m not entirely sure of the circumstance, but… there’s a strange reluctance in England specifically to timber frame, instead to stick with masonry and concrete, Scotland has embraced timber frame… my guess would be that the contractors are bringing in plant and machinery… pumping the concrete, going around each plot and pumping it in super quickly, economies of volume make it a different proposition to my examples. But…don’t get me started about volume house builders.
Top Lad!
I’d never do timber as it is poor for acoustic performance, and building studios for clients. But otherwise it’s around what I thought!
Every builder prices work differently so that one can prove a timber construction is cheaper and another that concrete is cheaper and then there is the builder's culture i.e. whether the small builder started life as a chippy or a brickie or any other trade because they will favour their own trade solution. Then you factor in a myriad of local conditions and its a complete lottery as to whether one system is cheaper than the other and what those costs should be.
The two specifications shown here are not that common and there are various other specs that would satisfy the project requirements.
Also, of note is that a goodly number of the house builders, who have less fluctuating circumstances actually favour beam and block construction, which is an amalgam of the two systems, concrete joists with concrete block infill. I have used this to good effect on houses and commercial premises for years, now also specifying it for first floor construction in domestic premises.
You say these constructions I’ve illustrated are not common…. ?? I can assure you, the two constructions illustrated in the video are very common.
@@build-better-things I can assure you that there are only one of several ways to achieve the same details. The video implied that these were the only two options..
I really don't like the way the UK does slab on grade foundations. The US have developed some excellent assemblies, and we should really adopt them, here's an example from one of my favourite building science communicators:
ruclips.net/video/KDLkbpraC4A/видео.htmlsi=c0AJhPxxiK_HJcun
Same can be said for suspended timber floor systems. There are "conditioned" or "encapsulated" crawl spaces where the ventilated void is separated from exterior air, the insulation can be moved to the perimeter, or onto the ground. Again, this seems like a much better system and we should change our ways.
ruclips.net/video/3YOIzEzEwWo/видео.htmlsi=T0NkkhoHWsiNcFPt
Brilliant explanation. I noticed that the links in the video didn’t work when tapping on them on a mobile.
Subscribed and liked.
Thanks for the sub. Sorry about the links and I’ll get them fixed asap.
£500/day labour? I’m in the industry and that’s just incorrect. I wish I was on £500/day. Nice videos though 👌
I don’t think you watched the video. Nobody is earning 500 a day. You say you’re in the industry. Self employed skilled workers can earn 300 when you consider their overheads, insurance etc. same for semi skilled at 200. No homeowner is ever going to be paying salaries, which, naturally, are going to be lower. I also said, if you don’t agree with the figures, download the spreadsheet and put in your own labour rates.
If you read the spreadsheet it says 2 people per day. skilled labour + unskilled for 300+200. There's your 500 per day. Maybe there should be a separate cell for skilled and can read.
I feel like the key thing here is the quality of the native soil. It takes a professional who is very smart and experienced (and maybe a little lucky) to identify that a piece of native soil will stay the same for 100 years and doesn't need a concrete slab.
Chipboard is not timber, awful budget material which will deform, bounce and squeak on a big floor. 22mm structural ply proper spec
Chipboard will definitely perform admirably, won’t bounce won’t squeak, provided it’s laid correctly. The size of the floor is irrelevant. If you want to do the extra work for your structural plywood, then go for it.
Superb chief. BZ ⚓️🍻
Thanks. ☺️