Floor Trusses vs. Joists vs. Engineered Joists: Options + Cost
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2022
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As a home owner I really love these videos. I've learned a lot. What is so depressing is that these types of building techniques will probably never make to the masses unless it becomes code. Near our neighborhood is a new small semi-custom development of about 10 homes. One is currently on the market is for $2.7M. We take regular walks through the neighborhood and they have built all of these houses using "minimum" code. Not one of these "modern" techniques Matt shows us was used by this builder. Just a super expensive house built like a typical track built home. For the vast majority of builders it's all about profit and nothing else. It's easy to do because most people don't know the difference between a nail and a screw but they certainly know the difference between Samsung and Viking.
It really makes me sick when I drive by places and see awful tyvek swinging in the wind. Hell, was playing golf a few weeks back and $3m+ home being totally rebuilt had tyvek. Like dude, are you kidding?
I can't find a builder who will even entertain the modern techniques Matt uses. Asked about Zip sheeting as an upgrade and have been told that it's a downgrade from OSB with tyvek wrap
Fairly early on in the first chapter of IRC 2018, you’ll encounter R101.3 which reads ”The purpose of this code is to establish minimum requirements to safeguard the public safety, health and general welfare through affordability, structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, light and ventilation, energy conservation, and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment and to provide safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations.
Speaking as a contractor, building consultant, total building science geek, and housing quality advocate, I couldn't DISAGREE more on the premise that what Matt Risinger preaches belongs in code. Prescriptive use of high-cost building materials, bells and whistles, and belts and suspenders is the last thing that belongs in the code. This stuff may be cool, but code is intended to be a minimum. There will and should always be better ways to build, but not everyone can afford a Risinger home.
I will agree that it is sad what tract home builders pass off to consumers, but it isn’t for lack of code, it is for lack of a knowledgable and responsible workforce, lack of code enforcement and corporate greed. It is also because most home buyers have no concept of what quality workmanship and a crew that is paid well enough to give a shit about the homebuyer looks like. I’ve seen enough piss bottles, excrement in inoperable toilets, discarded drug paraphernalia, and evidence of homeless laborers sleeping in vans or even in unfinished houses to tell you we don’t need more code to fix the problem.
@@joeydunkle I'm a builder/building consultant and I also dislike ZIP System, I don't think we've seen enough time elapse since it's introduction to prove that it is as reliable as a traditional WRB installed in a shingle like fashion. It's a product that is intended, as is indicated in their marketing towards contractors, to remove the need for skill and knowledge with the goal of maximizing profits for contractors; that doesn't necessarily make it the best way to build. Why would you want butted seams that rely on application of tape to a clean surface (occurring in a dustyy/dirty environment) when you can have lapped seams for less money. This is particularly true around fenestrations. The tape is only guaranteed for 30 years, which isn't long IMO considering the system's reliance on the integrity of the tape. Zip system also has a disadvantage in cold weather (installation below 20 degrees voids the warranty). I've inspected many homes with zip system where the tape was coming off from being installed improperly and/or not even installed in all required locations and the siding crew was starting their installation without any concern for the deficiencies. I can't imaging that will end well.
I mean this with all due respect; approaching a builder and telling them how to do their job is a terrible way to start a business relationship. Also,I wouldn’t consider everything said in these videos as building and construction gospel. There’s more than one way to skin a cat and you may find that the person who isn’t sponsored by anyone is giving you a straight answer.
You may find the following helpful:
ruclips.net/video/9XoAHr2vIlY/видео.html
@@matthewharaminac6348 thank you for your insight! I agree 100% about not telling them how to do their jobs. I have approached it asking for their standard options/specs and what options are available. I've worked in the automotive field before and know how annoying it can be too have people try to tell me how to do my job. My attraction to zip is solely what I've seen on this channel, but the air and bug tightness is what I like about it.
At 1:42 into the video the truss is sitting on the top plate, which has been nearly completely notched out for the sewer line coming down. All the force on that truss is cantilevered onto the top plate and not supported because the top plate is not well-supported on both sides. A 2x6 stud needs to be added to the right side of the sewer line.
True, that will be a point of failure in about 10 years.
@@pyhead9916 this is a good catch.. but I bet the "failure" won't be anything worse than a squeak.
as an engineer i noticed that right away and glad someone else caught it, even though it is painfully obvious.
Saw that in his intro. Also it would help to have a reinforcement tie to supplement the notched top plate.
Plus the protective plate should go to both sides of the cut. Notice how just one floor joist falls on a stud.
It is on an exterior wall so I would add a 2X4 cripple under there moved toward the inside of the house to prevent the thermal bridging
Really appreciate that you lay out actual numbers. Like, here's a 4,000 sq ft house. It's $7500 for trusses, TJI was $6500-$6700. That's super helpful to know!
I paid 45000 CAD for two houses 3000 sq feet each.. in Canada it’s x7 the price for these.
I worked on a retrofit home control/ AV install on this architect's home and it had floor trusses so deep, there was basically a crawl-through attic between every floor. Running cable was a dream.
Wood-web floor trusses make almost everything better. The extra spans alone make them worth it. I have been designing, almost exclusively, for the past 20 plus years. Even small homes can benefit from them as you can clear-span and narrow plan (even if you have a little more depth to deal with) and eliminate interior bearing walls and beams completely. That is a great time and money saver.
UK uses OSB I beam trusses. They are cheaper, stiffer and don’t twist like solid lumber. They are also easier to drill for first fit services. Plumbers and electricians know how and where to drill structural timber. But really the project manager should be paint marking where he wants holes drilled.
Until you have a fire.
So nailing the floor is going to be cheaper and faster but I would make sure it ring shank nails cause a loose nail can cause squeaking with barely any deflection. I’m with you on screwing 1” floor sheets on top of gluing is crazy over kill. I love to over build but at some point you’re just wasting time and throwing away money
@@marcemarc6516 Depending on the truss spacing, we use either 5/8" T&G or 3/4" T&G subfloor. Always glue & most always screw. I've only ever used 1" plywood for stair treads. That would be a serious floor! LOL You'd have to have the trusses designed with that extra weight in mind.
@@davidelliott5843 We use a lot of I-Joists here as well. They are great and very versatile. Some subs have a tendency to hack them up like a regular timber joist. LOL I didn't say plumbers! That's the nice thing about the open web floor trusses. No cutting required (or allowed for that matter).
Another super in formative show! Thank you Matt. We purchased a truss manufacturing facility and moved the equipment here to the Western Fibers Riverdale Hemp Gin and have it in place, we have an electrician hooking it up this week, we are going to build our own volumetric modular units. We just purchased 33 building lots 18 miles away. We breed, grow, harvest, process and make our own spray in hemp insulation with our Hemp spray insulation machine, would love to talk to you more about this.
Matt, you always drop a new video when I need it. Just bought a property in New York and I'm trying to figure out what to build for a house. Leaning towards pole barn with barn and garage on ground floor and house on second floor using floor trusses, but I didn't know much about them. Thank you!
Have to share a neighbors story, they had random trusses on a second story floor flipped upside down during installation. The trusses were supposed to be top bearing so when they weren’t quite long enough the installer just toe-nailed them into the bearing points of the wall!
It’s all about execution and details. The best product in the world will never make up for incompetence!
Just wow.
Cut solid timber too short and you’ll get the same issues.
This is why I’m building my own house. I’m an accountant and can do a better job than most in the construction industry. Not saying I’ll get it done as fast.
@@BiPolarBear722 home owners who self build pay more in the end in time and frustration. Subs will jump when their usual contractor says jump. With homeowners it's more like "we'll get to it eventually." Just educate yourself and hire an independent inspector. Your welcome.
@@mojodojo5533 I’m don’t plan on using subcontractors for anything but the foundation.
I have 20" deep floor trusses due to span lengths. I had the truss company specify stiffer trusses and we have zero bounce. In a previous house, we had I-joist floors that had a big bounce in the largest room. The basement wasn't finished yet, so I ripped 1/2" plywood the height of the I-joists and glued and screwed them on both sides of the I-joists, which stiffened the floor greatly. Better to get it right the first time than to retrofit, which gets much more expensive if wiring and ducting needs to be moved first.
Floor trusses also allow more insulation for sound mitigation and easier to feed wire across them, if you want to add a light or additional circuit.
Awesome information! I installed floor trusses on my house build years ago as I didn't want to have supporting posts in the daylight basement. I do like the floor trusses, but because I don't have supporting posts under the floor trusses, my floor moves a bit when winter/summer temperatures with snow load that has lead to sheet rock repairs over the last 15 years. Occasionally I hear pops when the temperature changes, just mentioning as I was assured these wouldn't be problems when I installed these on my build.
Love this content, especially the cost differences. Best video ever.
Wow! Best video ever. That’s a high bar
@@buildshow Next best was the video comparing hot water heater performance with a table of performance values. Love quantitative comparisons that enable me to make smart choices.
I do like a polite conversation. Nice Ray! Learning and respect
👆👆Great fans🎊Congratulations🎁 dm for your reward
I've been interning with BFS the last few months before retiring from the military. Really excited about starting my next career with this company!
I will forever remember him as Mr Yes Sir
Great video my house i had spec/tract built last year has trusses and i was worried that it was less safe or cheaper then traditional joist but this makes me feel wayyy better, and i do like how my unfinished basement has everything tucked away in that cavity so i can easily finish it all up later. Thanks matt!
Wish I could be a builder. Love this talk. Don't have a clue what it all means 🤣. Not too many people looking for a 70 year old grandmother as an apprentice, though 😂! "No girls allowed" back when I was young.
I'd hire you. Passion is what is missing from many in the trades
Regarding fire concerns, folks can add a fire sprinkler system to the house. I'd recommend one anyways. Second to that, you can get the trusses made with FRT (fire retardant treated) wood. They will cost more and there is a strength reduction to be factored in. And last but not least, you can upgrade the floor or roof assembly to fire-rated (suggest 1-hour). Main upgrade is using a layer of type C gyp or two layers of type X gyp on the ceilings. Last suggestion is likely the least expensive upgrade and best bang for the buck. Ceilings endure the highest heat load in a fire.
In terms of fire sprinklers I’d say the water damage that would result can be detrimental
@@roystondsouza658 they're dimensional lumber, not TJI so doubtful unless you plan on letting the sprinklers run for 5 days straight lol
@@roystondsouza658 A Fire is detrimental. Fire sprinkler systems in residential construction, NFPA-13R, only purpose is on life safety not on saving the structure. Their only purpose is to get the occupants out safely, but many times they will contain the fire or even put it out before the fire department arrives. The fire department is the only party who can turn off a sprinkler system once it is activated.
Fire suppression is required here in all new construction, and any truss space is required to have sufficent heads installed to provide the same coverage as open room space.
@@allanlindsay9414 must be in either California or Maryland.
Getting my house built right now, I insisted on trusses. Glad I did. Lots of good info here. Thanks.
Thanks for the info! This is right on point on where I'm at.
Ray, Thank you for explaining how the floor truss assembly works together as a “system” which can assume loads as some members are compromised by fire. It’s important to understand that one truss failure will likely not result in a systemic collapse. There are other factors at play as well. OSB decking is typically found in lightweight wood construction, which deteriorates rapidly under fire conditions, leading to early localized collapses and partial failure of a trussed floor/roof system.
Another concern for fire safety is the large concealed void space in the truss space that allows fire to rapidly spread. Trusses are the horizontal equivalent to balloon framing studs. This can be mitigated with draft-stopping using type X gypsum, and fire caulking, but this feature is typically left out in single family residential builds. Without this important feature, fire can quickly spread within the entire floor area of the building, thereby preventing firefighters from making and aggressive offensive attack.
Residential 13D sprinklers are a partial solution because they only protect “occupied” areas of the house, not void spaces. They can however keep small fires in check and in some cases prevent extension into the building structure. Perhaps a “belt-and-suspenders” approach could utilize a 13D system and draft stopping/fire caulking to provide adequate fire protection.
I think the aversion firefighters have to trusses is because they are often found used in modern lightweight wood framing in the mass-produced housing market. When combined with poor quality control, exposure to elements during construction, a lack of craftsmanship by unskilled framers, and a lack of respect from other trades who compromise the integrity when running utilities, this makes a very vulnerable building when fire is introduced. Regardless, trusses are here to stay, and the fire service will need to adapt their strategies and tactics to the building construction when possible.
All this to say I’ll be building my house with 18” open web wood trusses supported by ICF exterior walls.
-firefighter in central Texas since 2006.
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In Alberta, Canada, we use L/480 when we get engineered floor systems. I really like a lot of what you are saying in mechanical accessibility along with the long spans.
amazing work and cool idea !
Awesome video Matt
trusses cost more if you're only comparing material costs, but they generate a ton of labor cost savings across framing and MEP. add to that practically eliminating the risk of over-drilling a joist and compromising the integrity of the floor, and it's just a no brainer.
A very interesting video. Thank you
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Very interesting.
Congrats. Nice square footage.
Great video Matt thanks. And if fire is someone's main concern look into Autoclaved Aerated Concrete.
And hey congrats I see you're now over 1m subscribers!
@Matt Risinger hopefully you do a house soon with Omniblock... I plan to use that.. I think it has advantages over ICF, the most important being any mason can build with it. But the block to roof connection and air sealing is a detail I would like to see your solutions for. Especially if trying to do Monopoly type roof.
Two questions for you.
1. In your experience, what floor deflection rating satisfies your most discerning clients?
2. What special planning is needed to account for the massive weight of a large island w/ quartz countertop + four stools + four people? That could be 2500 lbs in a concentrated area. I know that would be an uncommon scenario for you since basements are atypical in your part of the country. Maybe a better example would be a big soaker tub on the second level.
You showed a rectangular opening in the web joists running the length of the house. Curious about how the sheet metal HVAC supply trunk would be installed? Even with 24-inch centers how do you thread the duct into place? Does this happen when the trusses are placed?
I’ve been seeing a lot of steel trusses that have wood attached to the top and bottom lately. I wonder if those are ever getting used in residential construction. It seems to me that that kind of truss would make super strong structures that would also allow conventional attachments like plywood and drywall. I think it would simply engineering too.
I built my house 20 years ago and I have floor truss , It was the best thing I did. All open basement with no pole supports, The Hvac ducts was designed into it. My house has ZERO bounce. This was the best thing I have seen for floor support. Also makes great storage space as well.
Are your floor trusses 24" on center? I'm planning a house build and that large of a span concerns me. The subfloor would be spanning a 20.5" gap. That just seems like a lot to me. Thanks.
@@tbone0785 yes 24 on center. House is 18 years now and never had any bounce or squeaks or settle issues
@@thecatdaddy1974 awesome thanks. What was used for your subfloor? And what state are you in?
I'm in Washington state and just built a 2 story house this year. Washington doesn't allow the central HVAC unit and ductwork in either of the attic or crawl space. So I installed floor trusses and ran ductwork there and installed the HVAC unit in a 2nd floor closet. Floor trusses are slowly catching on to satisfy state energy codes
What are the deflection stats on truss vs TJI? I had TJI's in a 1992 built home, and it turned out that the floor joists were engineered at or above above L/720, which was suitable for stone flooring (L/360 is the minimum for tile). From that experienced, I always thought that TJI's provided for improved minimum deflection. As a homeowner (and DIY'er, I appreciated that I didn't have to reinforce the joists in the Master Bath, when I installed Travertine. All I had to do is replace the particle board flooring with two sheets of plywood, and I met deflection standards for stone floors.
I have seen issues with tile separation on top of floor trusses. Maybe it was an anomaly but I wonder if it has something to do with local deflection -vs- average deflection. In between the webbing members on a floor truss you have a 2x4 laying flat with minimal sectional stiffness. Localized live loads will cause that short span to deflect and not effectively distribute that deflection to adjacent "spans" on either side of vertical/diagonal webbing members. The total deflection of the floor truss would stay under the prescribed L/360 or whatever is spec'd along its entire length, but the floor has more relative deflection per unit of length which as a result would cause tiles to pop. My theory anyways.
I designed and built trusses for 6 years before moving into construction and renovations. Mostly I was in the plant trying to supervise the construction.
One of the hardest things to get the labourers in the truss plant to do was to check the quality of the lumber before it is used. Just too much pressure from management to work fast and just crank the damned trusses out. And sometimes that resulted in a section of 2x4 between the webs being bent up or down because a piece of lumber that should have been rejected made it past both the cutter and the guys putting the pieces into the truss.. On the top chord of the truss the longest span between the webs should be less that 2.5' so a 2x4 has to be really bad before it has a noticeable upward or downward bend over such a short span ... but you don't get the best quality labour for the kind of wages a truss plant pays so sometimes a bad board makes it through.
Curious what sheathing you had on top. Hoping to mitigate this with a thicker floor sheathing.
what is defleciton
Matt, I would love it if you would talk about running plumbing though the engineered floor joist. I'm getting ready to build my own home and having a hard time deciding on Trusses or TJI and the plumbing aspect is one of my biggest concerns.
The TJI manufacturer should have specs on where and how big holes can be drilled for each joist.
My grandpa built his house with tji, they're junk. Minor moisture will crumble the uprights. Plumbing should all go underneath them along with the electrical stapled on the bottom in case you have to replace any. I'd maybe use them on some small structure that's in a low humidity environment. Maybe...
@@taylorseigler The manufacturer will have such specs ... but you still want to have the pipe and duct routes and hole locations specified in the blueprints because otherwise the plumbers might just drill holes wherever it is convenient for them. Holes for wiring are usually small enough that it doesn't matter much if the electricians don't follow the specs but when a plumber makes a big hole too close to the end of a joist or too far off-center vertically it is a huge issue.
I have had to replace joists after plumbers decided they'd ignore the rules in order to save a few minutes of their precious time.
1:47 What on earth is supporting the truss to the right of the soil stack?
I saw that also, and the nail plate that doesn't cover the entire pipe??
I have been going through to comments looking for someone to have already called that out! To make the matter worst, it looks like those are 2x6 walls, so the pipe is a 4-inch stack.
Hopefully a stud gets placed there for support - maybe the framing inspector will catch it. I see a lot of this in my area - even with high-end homes. Plumbers and HVAC contractors can really hack up the framing. Top & bottom plates of load bearing walls completely severed for a duct. Floor I-joists, in the middle of a span, completely cut into two pieces for a duct. Holes made for vent pipes and you wonder what the plumber actually used to make the hole because there is no way that it was a hole saw. One hole in particular looked like the plumber used either a beaver, or a flat blade screw driver & hammer ........ and this was in a high-end home. I understand that not all contractors are like this, but it is common in this area to see the framing hacked up for HVAC and plumbing.
What’s the best way to find and install
Between the 2x4”s? I am installing a register. What about setting stud finder to metal?
I plan on venting cool dehumidified air in this truss area from a HP-HW heater. Installing an open air floor register in the bathroom floor will provide air flow and some dehumidification to this moist air space. Not worry about the humid air getting in the truss area as a negative air pressure is being created with the exhaust fan.
In addition to the floor truss itself burning, how do you prevent fire from sweeping throughout the entire floor assembly if every truss is an open web? I know you are supposed to put fire blocking within walls and at transition points between walls and ceilings but how can you fire block an open web floor system?
At 24” on center are you using 3/4” or 1-1/8” subfloor?
ok my first complaint is landing now.. why didn't you tell me about these sooner.... AAAHHH love those floor trusses!!
Awesome video Matt. I personally like tgi's for the fast ,light, and they don't make the floor super thick. But floor trusses definitely have ther place for sure. I've used them all.
TJI. More bounce per ounce.
Tji are junk. It's literally a little strip of osb upright with a 2x3 on top and bottom. I've seen them crumble with moisture issues.
What method would you suggest to reinforce an open web truss to support weight pulling down? For example, hanging a swing or workout equipment from the truss in the basement.
Are they easier to insulate with roxul or closed cell spray foam.
that's sounds great! i truss'em
My house was built 20 years ago with these. Span is only about 20-22ft. Its sagged about 1 inch in the middle of the floor. Maybe they build these trusses better now, but the home inspector had said other people also have problem with truss sagging.
Are there acoustic isolation benefits of using TJI joists to isolate upper floor noise? I presume the thinner TJI membrane results in better isolation, and each compartment can be filled with insulation to absorb sound?
I have a friend with floor trusses in their house and they hump up in places during the humid summer months. They have a crack in their tile in the bathroom... sometimes. All those separate pieces of wood just move independently too much.
I have floor trusses, I really wanted to replace the vinyl floor with tile but there's too much movement and I'm certain the tiles would crack. So vinyl tiles it is I guess :(
Maybe an extra layer of Advantech, and/or a decoupling layer?
@@taylorseigler there was schluter ditra installed under the tile
Matt, Nobody mentioned sound conduction. Do lattice floor trusses reduce sound conduction between floors? TJIs have full contact wood from top to bottom cord.
Hey Matt, love your videos and watch almost everyone of them. As a firefighter (I’m in the Toronto area) do you ever consider/factor in the event of a house fire when you are building? I know we hate seeing light weight construction and gusset plates because of how fast they can fail and lead to successive failure in a floor/roof assembly. Just wondering if this is something that you ever consider or factor in to your builds. Thanks!
Lol. Next time I’ll just watch the video through before commenting. Thanks for asking Matt!
You should explain the difference in fire protection between the different building material.
You really should check out actual results from fire tests for truss construction vs conventional lumber.
So without a ribbon board how do you properly attach something like a deck ledger if you use something like Maine Brackets? 24 inches on center can cause the plywood flooring to dip in between.
We’ve been using floor trusses for about 18 months now. Definitely quicker to set and the hvac and plumbing guys like the space. Have to make sure they miss the commode though.
Is the world ending? Did Matt finally list a real cost?!
Deserved.
@@buildshow Matt, I like the new direction, it makes you look more trustworthy. Thanks for the great content
Great video. Though it does leave me with some questions about engineered joists.
I have i-joists in my house and am starting to do some more projects in my garage.... are there recommended ways to install hanging shelves from those?
Sounds like you shouldn't screw into the bottom flange to hang something from and based on what i'm reading, folks are split on whether or not adding reinforcement to the web would be sufficient to add support. Definitely not a need, but a curiosity as it seems like i-joists are what builders are moving towards and I know lots of folks want to need to add storage to their garages.
I would hang from the top flange if possible
Matt there is one other con I believe you missed. That is the added cost to finish on the exterior wall. I you were using brick you may then need one or two more coarses for example.
Do floor trusses require ‘bridging’, as solid timber beams often have?
I got a new house and debate is going on with my builder. This house is in Dallas and there is lot of sound from second floor. Walking can generate thuds and squeaking floor sound. Builder is saying all good as the house passes city assessment. Please suggest shall I proceed to buy the house?
How does this compare to metal joists? Like an ispan.
How are they the way to go, if you didn't use them on your build?
I think concrete is the best thing to build a second floor with according to what we live with now 👍🏻👍🏻
As a plumber here in Texas and all I do is custom homes, I absolutely love floor trusses. The problem we as subs run into on these is the framers don't look or know to look for where the plumbing goes for the next floor. So they put a truss dead center of a toilet or a tub or even directly under the lavatory wall. What do you guy's do differently on your framing to avoid this?
During my 6 years working at a truss plant we always asked for drain locations if the floor plan in the blueprints did not already provide them. That way, when designing the trusses we could make sure they were out of the way of the drains. Sometimes we'd even call in a plumber to help us decide where the trusses should go.
And then the framers would ignore our carefully planned truss layout and just start at one end of the house and slap them down every 19.2" or 24".
I would appreciate it if you could tell me what the minimum thickness of the nail plate used for floor joists is.
This video couldn't have come at a better time as I am in the design phase of my house and the subject of TJI's vs Web Joists has come up. We will have a daylight basement with 8' ceilings which we didn't want any type of 'drop ceiling' to cover any hvac runs. As we are conscious of our budget and understanding web joists cost more hearing your costs for this build eased my mind some as I was thinking it'd be worse. Frankly, one would think maybe there is also some labor offset costs involved with the plumbing/electrical and HVAC runs? Do they usually take this (web joist ease of install of their hardware) into account in their bidding? Also, in our area, sprinkler systems are required in homes and that should be easier as well.
Out home will be a 1800 SF main floor footprint in the PNW.
Feedback?
What is a daylight basement? If there is some cost savings involved with the plumber, electrician and HVAC subs by using floor trusses; I'd be shocked if those savings were credited to the customer. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that floor trusses are only about $1K more than TJI's on a 3000 sq.ft. house. I'm hoping to start building a new house next March. Right now, I'm leaning toward a ranch with a basement( 1800sq.ft. main floor, 1200 sq,ft basement). My designer my suggest something different after he takes a look at the property.
@@peteyou2325 What is a daylight basement?
Daylight basements are a basement where either half the space is underground while the rest is above ground, or the basement is almost completely above ground. It's common for daylight basements to have small windows or even full-sized windows.
As far as cost savings, I wouldn't expect a 'credit'. However, I would think when any of those sub's bid the project, wouldn't they take into consideration reduced labor (time) involved not having to drill holes or thread items through knockouts? Or, do they just bid the job the same (as an overall end result) whether or not they spend the extra time running material through the house frame?
Thanks, I've never heard of a daylight basement. It's similar to a split-level design. I agree and understand your question about cost savings regarding floor trusses vs. TJI's. You can always ask your builder or ask the subs about any cost savings.
100% go web design trusses. Tgi are junk as I stated above in other comments. Spend the extra money and get the web. Just take my word for it 😅
@@jacobbuckey3511 I 100% agree with TGI vs Web!
For me, the question comes in 2x12 dimensional vs Web trusses for DIY'ing my barndominium this spring.
Context: 1st floor is slab with radiant. 2nd floor, no forced air or ducting, 1 bathroom on that floor. Lastly, I have full usr of a saw mill that can rough cut true-2's & 21' span...strength is less but close, cost comparison is the killer. As far as deflection, very similar. I believe noise & movement is more a function of installation...screw & glue & tongue & groove flooring addresses most of it.
#1 against I-joist….they don’t last long in a fire. Trusses were great in my garage, but sucked to insulate not using spray foam.
Ever used I SPAN SYSTEM total joist ?
How well do the plates hold on with age, as wood shrinks over time won't the plates loosen up ?
They’re assembled with kiln dried lumber so almost no shrinkage or expansion will occur over their life
Less shrinkage than a roof truss as the floor truss lives within the conditioned envelope.
Keep them out of the sun and rain until they are installed and the plates are good forever. Too much time in the sun and too many wet/dry cycles because of alternating rainy and sunny days can result in the plates being squeezed out.
Thus, for both floor and roof trusses, if you are not going to install them right away put a tarp over them until you are ready to install the trusses.
And truss plants can be sloppy about tarping in the interval between truss manufacture and delivery. As can intermediate stops on the way to the final location, such as lumber yards. For this reason, try to arrange to have the trusses manufactured and delivered as close as possible to the time when you will be ready to install them.
Check for plates that are not completely pressed into the wood when the trusses are delivered. A few that are not is to be expected because some boards are thinner or narrower than others and that stops the roller from pressing the plate in fully and a few smacks with a hammer fixes those plates. But if lots of plates - especially on the top side and south side of a stack of trusses - are loose that implies they have been out in the weather too long before they were delivered. The colour of the wood will tell you which side of the stack got the most sun before the trusses were delivered: what was the south side at the truss plant isn't necessarily the south side after delivery.
In houses I've been in, that used construction adhesive, for anything from ceiling tiles, etc. The adhesive fails after 25 years or so. That's a huge problem. It was so bad, I dont even want to use construction adhesive anymore, anywhere.
Very surprising to me. I just had TJI’s and floor trusses quotes for comparison for a ~2200sqft house. Trusses came back $500 cheaper! I was not expecting cost to be so similar let alone a little cheaper
Matt the firefighters aren't concerned about their house burning. They are concerned about your house falling on their head while they are putting the fire out. The concern isn't the failure of the wood in the truss. The concern is heat warping the plates on the truss causing failure. A localized fire will put heat into the entire truss bay potentially causing the truss system to fail.
I had these in my first house. When I finished the basement, I had to install a fire suppression system in order to get the permit.
My understanding is the concern is more about fire not spreading to other houses than saving the house that’s burning.
The weakest point of any truss is the steel gusset plates failing. Steel fails quicker in a fire than wood. And those gusset plates are tiny and flimsy.
But TJI's aren't great in a fire either, because of all the glue, the flame spread rating is higher and the osb fails quicker compared to solid sawn.
What's most important for fire protection of engineered joists is drywall. Protect the joist from heat and flame. So 5/8" type X drywall, limit your hatches and fans/ducts and use hard ductwork, use flat recessed spring clamp lights instead of cans that aren't airtight.
Usually this isn't a consideration in codes unless it's a multi unit house, then usually you gotta have fire protection between floors. Otherwise most builders don't give a rats ass for fire protection.
I say go ahead and use the better joists for better builds, but protect it from failure from fire as well.
Let's not even get into residential fire sprinkler systems. (Or Matty maybe you can do a video on this, I like uponor's system)
@@stuartkorte1642 truss vs no truss aint making a difference in that concern. Buy acreage and that one evaporates
Things will fail when fire tested, and the failure is in the fact that we don’t see the failure point until people die in a fairly large quantity and then we figure out what happened in the rear view mirror
Floor trusses make it a HUGE time saver for water mitigation in the event there is a water leak in the house.
Can you elaborate?
I feel the additional cost is well worth the benefits. You’ll save time on installing these and so will the other trades. The plumbers, HVAC and electricians will also save time on their installations because they aren’t having to cut and drill as much.
But will a builder actually relay that cost savings on to the buyer? If they have you a figure for each trade. How would you know those labor savings were actually factored in?
TGI's BURN FAST... fire fighters hate them compared to traditional joists. What is the burn rating on these? How long will they last in a house fire, before they collapse on the first responders trying to ensure they have everyone out of the structure?
I would’ve loved to use floor joists on the house we are building right now, but the higher cost and longer lead times made us choose TJI’s.
My only concern is I doubt the trades electricians, plumbers, Hvac technicians will pass the labor savings back to me.
My thoughts exactly. How would a buyer ever know if a quote included those labor savings?
1:41. Big no-no. 4-inch PVC through both top plates with a floor joist-truss resting on a now cantilevered top plate. Put another 2x6 stud next to the PVC please!
so Matt 1:45, think he needs a stud under that trust. squash block atleast.
best floor truss
Matt, this is one of my favorite videos as you covered one of my pet peeves. In the ending of this vid, you mentioned building outside the U.S. and as such, one has the choice of using concrete, metal, or as I've experienced so much..terra cotta hollow brick (in Sicily and Crete). I'm not a builder just a retired Sailor but I did some construction way back when so it has always interested me. On my last home in San Antonio, I couldn't help but wonder why we use so much "stick" building when concrete can be used. Can concrete be used in the U.S. or is there a code against it due to ground movement, etc. or is it even cost effective?
Thank you for your service my friend! I’ve seen that terra-cotta block overseas as well and it’s really intriguing. Especially when I saw it in Germany with some interesting insulation options. I think it’s a great way to build. In the US, we are very oriented towards timber construction mainly because of history, but also because of our abundant forests and relatively inexpensive lumber costs over the decades. If lumber continues to rise I could see concrete, ICF, or possibly terra-cotta gaining popularity. The biggest barrier is just not having a historical precedents. It’s new to most builders and as such has barriers to entry
How would I recess floor trusses for a shower floor remodel?
That is a question for an engineer.
what does it cost to build in block in TX/the US vs timber? I guess timber is typically $200-300 per sq ft.
Block I don't know, but if using ICF, about 15%-20% more in "framing" cost. ICF installers usually charge $20/sq foot of wall.
Would like to see every 8’ a firewall of fire resistant plywood or better material in event of fire. We all have seen how quickly fire travels once it has oxygen and fuel. Helps the fire fighter limit fire damage etc.
Trusses are designed to transfer the load to other part of the joist so that the stress on the loading point is zero. I did the calculation many years ago when I was in my 20s but don't remember the details these days. Where as joists are designed to withstand the load. And I was talking to a realtor the other day about how I don't like those wood/fiberboard I beam. But now that this video remind me of how trusses work and the physics of trusses, then I guess those wood/fiberboard I beam is adequate for the support of the floors after all.
If the truss is taller and this is used in an upstairs living area, does the architect need to make sure that the stair system needs adjustment for stair height?
Designers should be calculating the stairs for the anticipated floor to floor height, including the code-required headroom, in advance. Any slight variation, on site, should be easily accounted for by a competent framer.
Yes, absolutely. And it is easily overlooked. The “taller” staircase needs more space below it or it will be too steep for code or you won’t have enough room at the bottom or top landings to move large objects up and down the stairs. The carpenters need to be competent and read the plans. I have seen guys start cutting the support risers only to have to start over because they weren’t long enough; or they try to cheat and get by with an uneven stair height at the top or bottom or both.
@@howardmccarthy5811 The taller stairs also need a longer hole in the floor they descend from. If you frame the floor with 18" tall trusses instead of 2x12s the opening in the floor needs to be more than a foot longer so people aren't banging their heads when the go down the stairs.
@@robstowhotmailcom You are correct. Thank you for expanding on my explanation.
Inherited some of these in a building I brought. Reused them and they are everything mentioned here.
Too many people report these open web trusses make your floor bouncy.
So how do we avoid that?
1:48 That missing stud would not pass here :)
Floor truss systems saving natural resource: saving money.
🌲🦉
1:17 ran that strong back through the chase?
I dont know if i would choose floor trusses personally. I imagine the standard lumber after years you can tell they shrink, twist, warp, and split and while it is likely not an issue for the most part its just i do not see much in terms of thickness that can be lost before your second level becomes your first level. Also for fire if going that route i would do a spray fire retardant or paint as well as the safe and sound Roxul with a thicker or fire rated drywall at the minimum. Its not really the slight chance that you have a fire but the safety of those possibly in the house or the brave men and women that would run into a fire. One floor joist fails and it could potentially open up a hole
I think those are good suggestions, but remember that one or two floor Joyce could fail and you would not have a hole opened up because the entire assembly is tied together both with the sheathing on the top, and a 2 x 4 rat run that connects the bottom cords. One or two trusses kid entirely fail and you still wouldn’t have a hole in the floor system
@@buildshow i dont doubt it would be ok its just solely my being skeptical is all. I would have a hard time letting anyone build my house without my being there as I do not trust most......however I would bet that you would far exceed anyone so much so that i would trust you without a doubt. Do not think i am arguing as thats not the case i any way
How do you maintain room-to-room privacy when everything is just a stud wall in a house like this?
Ah no, I just priced trusses vs. TJI on my build and it was 50% higher.
Matt chooses the highest-priced offerings from his sponsor ... what a shocker.
Truss sub flooring is sensitive to flooding. Water softens wood and those will sag. Although those survive any flood, there will be sagging that’s impossible to remediate.
I was on a job where the sparky cut through the bottom rail of 6 I-beam joists. I think even that guy can't screw up with trusses, but you never know.
Strength of floor trusses vs I-joists...for weight bearing?
I would have appreciated a pro/con of trusses vs LVL. I assume truss and LVL have a similar cost and that truss is stronger but requires more space but those are just intuitive guesses.
Meaning a full LVL floor? It would be really expensive and in my book not worth it. The only benefit would be possibly in a historical retro job where you had previously installed 2x6 or 2x8 joists that were undersized but you had to maintain that floor depth but wanted a stronger stiffer floor. I’d go floor trusses in new construction every time.
Matt dimensional lumber also is never the same I've had them as much as 3/8 to a1/2 different major pain in my!
Absolutely. Great addition. Should have said that.
Why not aero barrier after sheetrock?