Andrew ..... My opinion is you are doing the right thing. We race and pre-run in Baja Mexico and the trick is to have the springs just about holding the car up, so as soft a spring as you can get away with ........... Then make the shocks do all the work , in our case multiple shocks with Bypass technology ..... it takes testing and multiple tuning hours but it works. The soft spring and tuned shock let the wheel travel up and down over the terrain while the car stays level. Yes we are racing and going as fast over bumps as possible BUT in our pre-runners when we are driving the race course before the race we are heavy with camping equipment and going slower so we are trying to achieve the same as you are ..... I really think you will like your ride ....... The worst that can happen id you will occasionally hit the bump stops when fully loaded and going at speed ....... if that happens too much, a small adjustment to the shocks will sort that out ...... All the best from an Englishman in Baja CHEERS
Great stuff. My brother and I have spent our lives fantasizing about land cruisers traveling all over the world. Surprisingly he just bought his first. I drive a Q7. We grew up much the way of the st Pierre Whites. Our father was an adventuring geology professor. He and his professor friends had the skills to take any vehicle everywhere. It’s time to get back into the outdoors.! Thanks for the inspiration!
Couldn’t agree with you more, I have 44 years driving road trains through the outback on springs and shocks. It’s all about getting it to work together.. Excellent advice Andrew
After watching your vids and countless others I’ve just installed the 4 leaf terrain tamer full kit on my 79 dual cab After being way over spring with dobbo 500 constants and a shocking ride Even empty it now rides like a limo so will only get better with a load on Kit was $3500 Install $600 Very happy with the result
When measuring ride height, measure between guard and center of the hub. This negates any differences in tyre pressure, size etc etc. just an observation only.
As a former motorcycle road racer the process was to find the rebound/compression setting that was just enough to control the spring. Too much damping meant the wheels wouldn't follow the bumps and undulations and result in a harsh ride and reduced traction. The springs were chosen to allow the wheel to use the full suspension travel without bottoming out. We'd start with a very soft rebound setting and keep going up a couple of clicks at a time until the wallowing stopped. Compression wasn't as critical. I used the same process of trial and error to set the Koni Reds installed in my 4wd Nissan. I agree that once you've found a setting in the 4wd that's it ... it's not a race vehicle that needs constant adjustment and fiddling.
in 4wd vehicles you can find the optimal rebound setting somewhat fast and leave it there, its the compression that takes a bit more time, specially if you can tune slow and high speed compression independently.. oh !! and bleed holes too but im getting out of topic hehe. And as you know already a floating piston design is the best, specially with a reservoir to control shock temps
@@yepitsme431 Compared to motorcycles a heavy 4wd's suspension is far easier to set up. It's because the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass is huge. It's why a modern sports motorcycles suspension is very sophisticated in comparison to a 4wd. Yes the floating piston design is better.
Hello Andrew Went to the off road museum in Dubai today on your recommendation We were the only ones there And I have to say it’s was exceptionally good
I wouldn't say they were expensive. $1000 for a set of the 300Kg rear parabolics is not too bad. $1400 for the 500Kg (both for the 70 series - Other models are cheaper). Transforms the ride, so I think they are worth the money.
@@nicknick7052 Complete kit with TT parabolic springs, TT shocks, bushes Ubolts, steering dampener etc cost me about $2000 for the parts 2 years ago. Probably a bit more now.
@@philg2468 I'm going to say you meant $2000 not $200! For my rear 4 leaf parabolics, U bolts, bracketry, and bushes I paid $1791. I fitted them myself to my 2020 78 Series. It is a really easy job, which I reckon took 2 or 3 hours.
Love the dramatic music at the beginning thou its more in keeping with say storming the trenches or the beaches or an embassy & not a ARB 4X4 Accessories store. Looking forward to seeing this project finished and out on the tracks !
I think installing springs and lift before putting all your weight is a mistake, now your troopy rides well, with all your camper and gear later might be a boat. Just my opinion
He quite literally explains it in minute 2. “I want to see how the undersprung-vehicle behaves”. Pretty sure Andrew knows what he’s doing. + he always estimates the final weight, so he has a clue what it will be in the end.
Andrew. I had parabolic in my Troopy 20 years ago and loved them, then went and bought a 80 series Landcruiser for 10 years, sold that and now have a ford ranger and got parabolic put in. They are pretty close to being as good as coils with better load caring ability. The articulation you also get is great. They are a game changer for the leaf spring 4wd.
Thanks for your review. Can we add a extra leaf on a Parabolic spring set? My 78 troopy weights 3650kg on full load and terrain taimer it's just 500 to 700kg on the rear. Right now I have the +800kg oME el82r with an extra leaf.
Marcio.. I'm the same weight as you in my troopy. I have the 4 leaf version parabolic springs in. Ride is good but is is sagging a bit in the rear. I have purchased air bags to remedy, but something for you to consider
I'm a bit surprised that TT sold you the 3 leaf parabolics for a Troopy. I was thinking of the 3 leaf models for my 78 but they strongly suggested I go for the heavier duty 4 leaf parabolics. Mine is reasonalby heavily loaded most of the time (110L of water onboard, AluCab RTT, Internal drawer/shelving system). I've been really happy with the comfort of the 4 leaf parabolics on corrugations and sand tracks with 'wombat holes'. Mine are paired with KONI RAID 90 shocks, as they seemed a whole lot simpler than the BP51's. You only get compression adjustment but they are really great offroad for comfort.
Yeah, I've had the 3 leaf TT parabolics for 2 years now - if you are weight conscious and have no need for a big lift then they will do the job well. If you fit heavy stuff like rear wheel carriers and go over GVM then you'll need the 4 leaf.
Same here, for my Troopy (HDJ78-2003), I wanted the 3 leaf and was talked into the 4 leaf. My ride height went to 3". Terrain Tamer said they would settle......I put 200 kgs of bricks in the back for 6 months and no change.......thinking to ask for a swap back to the 3 leafs.......The 4 leaf tops out unloaded.....
Great content. My experience with Bp51 is they need slow and fast compression adjustability. Then they would be the ultimate shock absorber. On setting suspension up is to determine we’re the shock sits in its travel range when loaded up. The perfect setup is a settled position at 1/2 to 2/3rds of its maximum extended travel range. If it sits under 1/2 then the springs are to soft
I found this video after watching Andrew's re-released solo trip in his old Troopy, which is well worth watching. As good as his Canning Stock Route series.
The canning stock series is an absolute gem on the channel, as is crossing aus twice, and wildlife spotting in Africa.. 4xoverland is extremely under rated for top quality content, that is literally free.. He's the only person I give money to on the internet its well deserved
I just got fitted the ome springs and Shocks (bp51’s) and I fitted prior fully loading it. (2019 hilux) I did the maths on weight and it was closest to the max weight on front and 300 constant rear. They were pushing me for 600constant rear but I remember Andrew you talking prior about doing this. And think 450 was the rear you spoke about. I’ve not adjusted at all or added any weight so far. Front on speed humps is sometimes harsh. On the road all feels good. I’m pretty confident rear will work out. If front is a little over sprung I could loose up to 5mm on front and believe that will soften front right up. Then to fine tune the shocks..
Yeah the theory is bang on!! I found the Monroe comfort pro shocks to be the best as well as adding the Maxxis RAZR tyres. Reduces the NVH and increase grip all round.
It’s the correct practice to avoid arguing the points you mentioned just like when you measure yourself at the doctors you take your shoes off even if you assure him you will always visit him with the same pair of shoes 😂,
"Idiot factor" Love it. So many times i had do deal with it too. They all live in endless time consuming no point discussions in facebook at this days ;-)
First question asked nowadays when any 4wd owner wanders into an accessory shop. "Do you need a GVM upgrade?". I often wonder what said owner then thinks as they pickup the newly sprung vehicle and drive off bouncing around in their seat on the typical Australian road system.
Best? Maybe. Most complicated? Yes. Most expensive? Out of this world expensive. I'd buy another truck before I converted a Troopy into an hard-core off-roader. They are just too top-heavy to be the best off-road.
I did the mistake of putting 250kg constant load springs in my 80 series never got to that weight so now I use standard springs 30mm spacer and air bags and now I know do suspension as late as possible
I'd like to see a video on when you adjust the shocks. I never know when they need more rebound compression and its preventing me from purchasing them. (cant justify it, if I don't know how to use it)
I’m trying to spec my Rangers suspension right now. This video actually made me curious. Since I will have a camper in the bed, I assumed I needed higher load leaf springs as well as airbags. But now I might go with lighter load leaf springs, airbags just to correct the sag and let the shocks do more of the work. Good video, thanks!
Don't use air bags. Ride is ruined and puts stress in the wrong part of the chassis. Ive found the Terrain Tamer stuff to have the best ride and weight capability on this chassis ive installed most. My personal bt50 is fitted with them after 4 different systems.
@@juliangraziani7299 I appreciate the response. I agree airbags aren’t the best. However, I plan on taking the camper off frequently and driving without it. In those situations with 0 weight in the back I imagine the ride could be pretty rough. Also, after a quick search I don’t believe terrain tamer is available in the US :/ As for shocks, do you have any experience with more affordable shocks like the OME nitrocharger or Bilstein? Would love to know your thoughts on those. Thanks!
I was in the same boat as your are. My 21 Tacoma TRD OR has 3 springs in each rear to hold the weight and Bilstein shocks. It rides really good. To compare; the Hilux LN 106 we have has OEM toyota springs (about 6 springs in each) with Bilstein 5100 but the ride is hard.
Spot on. I had a troopie with parabolics. Really good except on those whoops and under maximum load bottomed out (trakka conversion). So i put heavy duty springs in. All ok at maximum load. Awful and i mean really awful as the weight came off eg fuel/water. They put a harness through the body ultimately the rear doors drooped. So om keen to see how you go. Since then every cruiser ive left stock
I like the idea of perfectly tuning the suspension to your final weight. Makes perfect sense. Only thing that caught my eye is the front of the lower leaf on the rear springs looks like a it will catch a lot of stuff. Not so much at compression but at drop, it looks like a rock/root catcher.
in fact that how is done; you NEED the final corner weight of the vehicle to calculate the proper spring rates at ride height, then you can tune the shocks to those spring rate (a good guess estimate), then sway bars, etc.. i laugh a lot when i see every single "overlander" or 4 wheeler/whatever that the FIRST thing they do is to install a brand X suspension "kit" and completely ignore everything else.. then complain about it to be to "soft/hard" you name it lol
@@yepitsme431 ASPW has mentioned this in every other build, wonder why he did it early this time. Possibly had nothing else happening so booked in early to keep progress/videos happening.
I’ve got the same parabolic in my Vdj 79 single cab for about 3 years and rate them highly Just under gvm when loaded and they perform great the only difference with my setup is air bags as well Around 10 to 12 running lite and I go up to 40 loaded mainly on my heavy side but with 0 air they still take the weight well Good to see you are trying this setup and can go to the 3 leaf version if desired The shock setup I’m looking closely as I’m about to change mine Currently running the old man emu foam cell Cheers
Interesting video, can't wait to find out how the vehicle performs when loaded. My 110 was typically over sprung and in North Africa it shook itself to pieces, I had to rebuild the door locks as the mechanism ended up in bits at the bottom of the doors.
To save that happening, just load it up more, extra kitchen sink, 3 more water tanks, 20 extra jerry cans of diesel on the roof & 45 cans of baked beans in the drawers 😂 Perhaps swap back to lead acid batteries, they’re good to get the springs working 😂👍
Good video Andrew! It did give a me thought though. A tech video on what goes into a vehicles GVM rating. I'm sure most people think it is just the spring rating. But it is also tires and axle and I know the frame/chassis comes into play at some point.
Should suspension not be measured from the centre cap to get a true reading. Otherwise you are measuring the tyre height as well which is variable depending on temperature.
@@GR8Tmate either way, tyres heights change. Maybe it needs to be pumped up. Who knows. It’s just a variable that doesn’t need to be there. If you measure from the centre it’s accurate. And excludes the tyre. Ride height includes tyre, suspension height doesn’t.
@@dunk1 Well it’s exactly where I’d measure from but to suggest that ambient air temperature would make a measurable difference on any given day, just days apart is laughable. Would have been better stating exactly why it’s a better method. Even with a 10deg Celsius ambient air difference, a tyres pressure would only increase by about 2%. So a Tyre inflated at 45psi, would become 45.9 psi. Most consumer equipment has greater variables than 2%. And that’s just the pressure, the tyres shape AT that pressure variance would move such a minuscule amount, I’m wondering what he’s measuring this with 😂 Remember, I’m not arguing that it’s not a better method, it’s just let’s be more realistic on why it’s a better method. The greater error would be at what angle Andrew was taking the reading from., or the way he held his tongue 🙄 Anyway, I’m busy replacing the screws that hold my Troopy tail lights in with titanium ones as it will reduce the weight of the truck & increase my payload 👍
@@darrenhale6320 It's the relationship between the wheels and body. Measuring from the ground means the "lift" will change if tyre pressures is increased or decreased, if weight is added or removed from the vehicle (load or fuel used), different tyre profiles are changed, and so on. The RVCS Dotars website state, under suspension data, "Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening at unladen mass." and indicate the front as 544mm and the rear 560mm for the two seater wagon.
@@darrenhale6320 But that's not how it's measured and that's not the figure in the government approved factory specifications in which any comparison is made, both for determining whether the vehicle now meets the ADRs or for insurance purposes. What this video does demonstrate that some people don't understand how the measurement is correctly taken, and what the term "lift" means with reference to ADRs.
Andrew, will you please!! Do a build for a family man with a budget, with kids in school and wanting to get out once every six or eight weekends? For the weekend? Please!? Older not so hardcore and extremely expensive vehicles like you use.??
thankyou Andrew. great video as normal. i have EFS springs and shocks. happy with the front, but i feel the rears are too stiff. looking forward to your experience with the parabolics. cheers
G'day Andrew. I am currently playing around with my bp51s on my 2021 DC 79. I am just wondering what you have yours set to for a comparison. Thanks, Matt.
Love your videos Andrew, you have a wealth of knowledge and so much passion! My question is why not opt for a coil conversion? I know its expensive but it dramatically improves the quality of your ride and you get a legal GVM upgrade in the process? You can do the 2inch coil conversion even after the vehicle has been registered.
@@andrewb5887 its really not niche. If you look up Jmacx they do a great kit. It actually increases the GVM to 3900. Its is very expensive though, I ordered the kit for my 76 series. Long wait time for car unfortunately!
@@jvnvan736 It's an extremely niche product, I would love to drive a rear coil troopy one day but am hoping toyota does it for me as thats the cost of a car for the large majority of aussies
A small lift with a softer spring makes for a better ride. More travel is always better, but a stiff lift spring will never deflect to make use of the additional suspension travel, at least when it not loaded.
I have a 2019 79 SC from new. I used to carry a camper on but thought the all up weight was to close to GVM. I decided to ditch the camper for a service body and RTT. I have found variable rate king coils with Ralph Tough Dogs and parabolic leafs with Raw nitros have worked well. I have no GVM upgrade and my truck comes in at more than 200Kg below GVM. After several outback trips I'm just starting to feel the shocks are starting to wane. Do you think I should go for a full set of Ralphs or something better. Bill
Are these the 300kg Springs? I called Terrain Tamer as they only list minimum 500-700kg parabolica on their websiste now. Where as for the 76 and 79 they also show the 300kg option. They said the 300kg 3 leaf were deemed not sufficent for the 78 series. So maybe they dont do them anymore? I also wanted to get these springs for my troopy, but and now worried that the 500-700will be too stiff when my troopy is unladen 75% of the time. Anyone else know what the go is?
Usually I go for the softest springs that will provide the hight I want, if soft, I go a step or two up. The shop I deal with don't mind exchanging the springs many times. If it were me, I'd go for the softest OME BP51 springs as they match the extra travel of the BP51s then go up from there. Test the full articulation of your front suspension - not full droop of both wheels together - by jacking one side or drive up an incline on the side to make sure the front coils won't dislocate.
I think suspension should be the last thing to add or at least to setup. Until you know your final weight, I don’t see the point in doing even a test drive. Those parabolic springs caught my attention a while ago but I am too conservative to even consider them; at least for the type of travel I do. I do carry a lot of diesel, water, some heavy RTT and a few batteries. In 2022, I want to put my LC79 on a diet and/or at least move some weight forward.
Andrew, you have a problem - the centre hole on the TT pro bushes is 18mm and you've had it installed with the smaller (14mm) Toyota fixed pin. Thats why they slipped in so easy on installation. You will have 4mm of play. The Toyota fixed pin must be used with a Toyota sleeved bush which is what I used for the same TT parabolics in my Troopy. The shackle bushes should be OK because the factory shackle pins are 18mm. And incidentally the TT greasable shackles are 20mm longer if you find you want an extra 10mm lift.
And just to add my only problem with the 3-leaf parabolics is that they need a very strong shock to control the bounce you get with the dunes on the Canning. No inherent dampening. Normal shocks do not cut the mustard, and I was loaded to 3300kg so not over GVM.
I understand the need for shocks that will need to do more work, but I'll look into the pin issue. They should have used the TT supplied pins. Am thinking of swapping to the greaseable OME shackles. I do not want more lift. Good idea?
@@4xoverland ARB have put the original Toyota pins back in yours without realising the fixed pin is smaller. I looked at the parts on the ground and didn't see any TT pins. The TSK031 greasable shackle pins are a good idea because of the extra 20mm of length, and because they are greasable. The TT pro bushes actually are well sealed so the grease doesn't actually come out when you regrease them. TT told me there is no need to regrease them - just make sure they are well greased during installation. I had the TPK011 greasable fixed pin and found the centre hole in the probushes became elongated after the Canning in 2019. So I reinstalled the nice quality Toyota factory pin and sleeved rubber bush. I once had a greasable front pin break on the Gunbarrel about 10 years back so might have a bias against using a greasable fixed pin.
@@4xoverland Have to see how your springs go when loaded. I expect you'll lose 20-30mm of height at the rear if loaded to 3300kg. Thats what mine does. I have the 20mm lift front springs (TTCS-1449) and it sits pretty much level at GVM.
Any recommendations for a more affordable shock? I’m contemplating OME nitrocharger and Bilstein 6112/5160. Terrain would include corrugated roads and minor rock crawling.
Way to go re- parabolic springs, not sure how long the shocks will last. You do put a lot of weight on your rigs and I get your are trying to reduce it. Hope it works, there is a lot of money in that setup. I don’t have the luxury to swap and change so I find it difficult to relate to your rationale. Thanks for the insight though, your build is very interesting. You may need to upgrade to 4 leaf parabolic’s?
Very interesting, are you guys allowed to put airbags in down there? If a shop was concerned with the idiot factor, they could just say, airbags for your loadout sir.
I have BP51’s on a 105 1HDFTE. They are nice, but adjusting them is a hideous pain. The whole shock body twists. You really need a clamp (oil filter clamp or similar) to hold the shock body so you can twist the adjuster. Some shocks of mine are harder to adjust than others. Please keep us updated on your shock settings Andrew.
That’s why I prefer the King Remote Res Shocks, easier to adjust & overall a better shock imho 🤷🏼♂️. Each to their own though, as what makes this interesting is how different people try to tackle the same problem.
GR8T when I was shock shopping, King remote reservoirs were a ludicrous wait time to ‘possibly’ arrive in Oz. BP51’s didn’t turn out much better though despite much better promises. The BP51’s are a great shock. They really are. I’d just like to be able to more easily adjust them for towing and loads, that is all. A simple redesign of some tolerances would probably be all that was required. Set and forget seems to nullify true advantage of adjustability. Might as well just get shocks revalved if you are never going to adjust them again-as I painfully plan to do.
Andrew, will be interested to see how you go. I’ve been running parabolics since 2010 on Landcruisers. My HDJ79 ‘bakkie’ 😄 has the same set up as you, BP51s & TT parabolics 300-500kg rated). I do however have airbags as I’m often changing loads or towing heavy trailers. I won’t be surprised if you end up with the heaviest TT springs in the end, once you do your fit out & load up with water. As for your comments about the 76, I have one as my overlander, the factory suspension was worst of the 6 cruisers I have owned, I did have parabolics on this also & it was awful. My fix was this was the full coil conversion which has fundamentally changed this vehicle in every positive respect. Coils unnecessary on the long wheel base 70s but the 76 it should be mandatory
@@GR8Tmate agree I have bp51s on my cruiser Ute and kings on my LC76 & the kings are worth the extra money. I certainly couldn’t go back to standard shocks after having remote res now
@@user-rv6zk1pp7r Yes, I’m building a new 78, I will be going Kings Remote Res, sure it’s slightly more expensive than the BO51’s but twice the shock. I find it odd that certain people will muck around with certain shock/spring systems when there’s obvious alternatives that are much better. They muck around with other combinations & end up spending a fortune chasing a better result which could of just been obtained by taking note of what’s superior. For me, I’m done mucking around with suspension, I’d rather play with other components that arnt such an issue when I get it wrong 😂
The troepie is looking awesome. Very interested to see how the suspension experiment turns out. I really like the thinking behind it. LOVE the grey steelies with the "Marie Biscuits" on the troepie! Where is the mags from the 11/08/2021 episode?
I have been using BP51 shocks on my Tacoma for 3 years now and after gettings the springs sorted and dialing in the rebound and compression settings the truck drives like a dream.
I’ve never really understood that term, “Drives like a dream” In my dreams there’s lots of blondes with big boobs…..not sure I want my driving experiences to be like that 😂
I've found getting the right springs to be quite a challenge. I have a V6 Hilux, I carry a very light load in the rear when touring and my engine is a full 75kg lighter than the diesel, and unfortunately the diesel is the default for suspension companies.
being conservative is also fitting what is needed 95% of the vehicle in action (as a whole). So being frugal on equipment must have a reflection on the fitting of weight handling equipment (aka suspension)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Andrew ..... My opinion is you are doing the right thing. We race and pre-run in Baja Mexico and the trick is to have the springs just about holding the car up, so as soft a spring as you can get away with ........... Then make the shocks do all the work , in our case multiple shocks with Bypass technology ..... it takes testing and multiple tuning hours but it works. The soft spring and tuned shock let the wheel travel up and down over the terrain while the car stays level. Yes we are racing and going as fast over bumps as possible BUT in our pre-runners when we are driving the race course before the race we are heavy with camping equipment and going slower so we are trying to achieve the same as you are ..... I really think you will like your ride ....... The worst that can happen id you will occasionally hit the bump stops when fully loaded and going at speed ....... if that happens too much, a small adjustment to the shocks will sort that out ...... All the best from an Englishman in Baja CHEERS
What an enlightening comment from a Baja racer. Great reading, and thanks.
One of the best thing with 4xoverland is that all measurements are metric. 😂😂 Thank you Andy.
Great stuff. My brother and I have spent our lives fantasizing about land cruisers traveling all over the world. Surprisingly he just bought his first. I drive a Q7. We grew up much the way of the st Pierre Whites. Our father was an adventuring geology professor. He and his professor friends had the skills to take any vehicle everywhere. It’s time to get back into the outdoors.! Thanks for the inspiration!
Couldn’t agree with you more, I have 44 years driving road trains through the outback on springs and shocks. It’s all about getting it to work together.. Excellent advice Andrew
LOVE the look of the narrow tyres
After watching your vids and countless others I’ve just installed the 4 leaf terrain tamer full kit on my 79 dual cab
After being way over spring with dobbo 500 constants and a shocking ride
Even empty it now rides like a limo so will only get better with a load on
Kit was $3500
Install $600
Very happy with the result
When measuring ride height, measure between guard and center of the hub. This negates any differences in tyre pressure, size etc etc.
just an observation only.
You are absolutely right
Usually it’s from the bottom of the rim to the bottom of the guard before & after.
Spot on.
Yes. The RVCS DOTARS site clearly says "Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening at unladen mass."
@@R00RAL The Transport Dept use centre of hub to guard (brow measurement) because it negates the effect of different diameter wheels.
As a former motorcycle road racer the process was to find the rebound/compression setting that was just enough to control the spring. Too much damping meant the wheels wouldn't follow the bumps and undulations and result in a harsh ride and reduced traction. The springs were chosen to allow the wheel to use the full suspension travel without bottoming out.
We'd start with a very soft rebound setting and keep going up a couple of clicks at a time until the wallowing stopped. Compression wasn't as critical. I used the same process of trial and error to set the Koni Reds installed in my 4wd Nissan.
I agree that once you've found a setting in the 4wd that's it ... it's not a race vehicle that needs constant adjustment and fiddling.
in 4wd vehicles you can find the optimal rebound setting somewhat fast and leave it there, its the compression that takes a bit more time, specially if you can tune slow and high speed compression independently.. oh !! and bleed holes too but im getting out of topic hehe.
And as you know already a floating piston design is the best, specially with a reservoir to control shock temps
@@yepitsme431 Compared to motorcycles a heavy 4wd's suspension is far easier to set up. It's because the ratio of sprung to unsprung mass is huge. It's why a modern sports motorcycles suspension is very sophisticated in comparison to a 4wd. Yes the floating piston design is better.
Hello Andrew
Went to the off road museum in Dubai today on your recommendation
We were the only ones there
And
I have to say it’s was exceptionally good
I am extremely interested about the (expensive) parabolic suspension. Waiting for your detailed (and honest as usual) review. Thanks Andrew
Same here, would like to know if they are worth the money. 💰💰💰
I wouldn't say they were expensive. $1000 for a set of the 300Kg rear parabolics is not too bad. $1400 for the 500Kg (both for the 70 series - Other models are cheaper). Transforms the ride, so I think they are worth the money.
to replace Terrain Tamer front and rear parabolic for a LC70 I"d say $5,000 or so fitted?
@@nicknick7052 Complete kit with TT parabolic springs, TT shocks, bushes Ubolts, steering dampener etc cost me about $2000 for the parts 2 years ago. Probably a bit more now.
@@philg2468 I'm going to say you meant $2000 not $200! For my rear 4 leaf parabolics, U bolts, bracketry, and bushes I paid $1791. I fitted them myself to my 2020 78 Series. It is a really easy job, which I reckon took 2 or 3 hours.
Love the dramatic music at the beginning thou its more in keeping with say storming the trenches or the beaches or an embassy & not a ARB 4X4 Accessories store. Looking forward to seeing this project finished and out on the tracks !
I think installing springs and lift before putting all your weight is a mistake, now your troopy rides well, with all your camper and gear later might be a boat. Just my opinion
He quite literally explains it in minute 2. “I want to see how the undersprung-vehicle behaves”. Pretty sure Andrew knows what he’s doing. + he always estimates the final weight, so he has a clue what it will be in the end.
Andrew. I had parabolic in my Troopy 20 years ago and loved them, then went and bought a 80 series Landcruiser for 10 years, sold that and now have a ford ranger and got parabolic put in. They are pretty close to being as good as coils with better load caring ability. The articulation you also get is great. They are a game changer for the leaf spring 4wd.
Thanks for your review. Can we add a extra leaf on a Parabolic spring set? My 78 troopy weights 3650kg on full load and terrain taimer it's just 500 to 700kg on the rear. Right now I have the +800kg oME el82r with an extra leaf.
Marcio.. I'm the same weight as you in my troopy. I have the 4 leaf version parabolic springs in. Ride is good but is is sagging a bit in the rear. I have purchased air bags to remedy, but something for you to consider
I'm a bit surprised that TT sold you the 3 leaf parabolics for a Troopy. I was thinking of the 3 leaf models for my 78 but they strongly suggested I go for the heavier duty 4 leaf parabolics. Mine is reasonalby heavily loaded most of the time (110L of water onboard, AluCab RTT, Internal drawer/shelving system). I've been really happy with the comfort of the 4 leaf parabolics on corrugations and sand tracks with 'wombat holes'. Mine are paired with KONI RAID 90 shocks, as they seemed a whole lot simpler than the BP51's. You only get compression adjustment but they are really great offroad for comfort.
Yeah, I've had the 3 leaf TT parabolics for 2 years now - if you are weight conscious and have no need for a big lift then they will do the job well. If you fit heavy stuff like rear wheel carriers and go over GVM then you'll need the 4 leaf.
Same here, for my Troopy (HDJ78-2003), I wanted the 3 leaf and was talked into the 4 leaf. My ride height went to 3". Terrain Tamer said they would settle......I put 200 kgs of bricks in the back for 6 months and no change.......thinking to ask for a swap back to the 3 leafs.......The 4 leaf tops out unloaded.....
I love the thought process
Can't wait to see how it will settle with a load on it. I also would like to see a detailed video of how you adjust the BF51s.
I'm in Worcester, South Africa.
Great content. My experience with Bp51 is they need slow and fast compression adjustability. Then they would be the ultimate shock absorber. On setting suspension up is to determine we’re the shock sits in its travel range when loaded up. The perfect setup is a settled position at 1/2 to 2/3rds of its maximum extended travel range. If it sits under 1/2 then the springs are to soft
How about ironman foamcell pro?are they any good?
I found this video after watching Andrew's re-released solo trip in his old Troopy, which is well worth watching. As good as his Canning Stock Route series.
The canning stock series is an absolute gem on the channel, as is crossing aus twice, and wildlife spotting in Africa.. 4xoverland is extremely under rated for top quality content, that is literally free.. He's the only person I give money to on the internet its well deserved
I just got fitted the ome springs and Shocks (bp51’s) and I fitted prior fully loading it. (2019 hilux)
I did the maths on weight and it was closest to the max weight on front and 300 constant rear.
They were pushing me for 600constant rear but I remember Andrew you talking prior about doing this. And think 450 was the rear you spoke about.
I’ve not adjusted at all or added any weight so far.
Front on speed humps is sometimes harsh.
On the road all feels good.
I’m pretty confident rear will work out.
If front is a little over sprung I could loose up to 5mm on front and believe that will soften front right up.
Then to fine tune the shocks..
Yeah the theory is bang on!! I found the Monroe comfort pro shocks to be the best as well as adding the Maxxis RAZR tyres. Reduces the NVH and increase grip all round.
According to the numbers you wrote down, you got a 45mm lift on the front not 55,, 70-25=45 🙂
Good spot 😂
“2000kms wit the old suspension” 😂
This guy the man
We don’t measure the height from the ground dear Andrew we do it from the Center of the hub or the edge of the rim.
It’s the correct practice to avoid arguing the points you mentioned just like when you measure yourself at the doctors you take your shoes off even if you assure him you will always visit him with the same pair of shoes 😂,
Very good...all good information. Thank you
Great video
Looking forward to your update
"Idiot factor" Love it. So many times i had do deal with it too. They all live in endless time consuming no point discussions in facebook at this days ;-)
First question asked nowadays when any 4wd owner wanders into an accessory shop. "Do you need a GVM upgrade?". I often wonder what said owner then thinks as they pickup the newly sprung vehicle and drive off bouncing around in their seat on the typical Australian road system.
Lol how terrible that professionals want to ensure they don’t make someone’s vehicle illegal to drive on public roads and uninsurable. Lol.
Thank you for great detailed video here as show lot through this video
Very enjoyable video!!👍🏻
Twin coilovers and portal axels seems the best solution that I can find, to be able to carry some speed over bad terrain
Best? Maybe. Most complicated? Yes. Most expensive? Out of this world expensive. I'd buy another truck before I converted a Troopy into an hard-core off-roader. They are just too top-heavy to be the best off-road.
Couldn’t agree more great way to set it up
I did the mistake of putting 250kg constant load springs in my 80 series never got to that weight so now I use standard springs 30mm spacer and air bags and now I know do suspension as late as possible
I'd like to see a video on when you adjust the shocks. I never know when they need more rebound compression and its preventing me from purchasing them. (cant justify it, if I don't know how to use it)
We have OME springs on our LR3(Discovery 3), and just love them.
I’m trying to spec my Rangers suspension right now. This video actually made me curious. Since I will have a camper in the bed, I assumed I needed higher load leaf springs as well as airbags. But now I might go with lighter load leaf springs, airbags just to correct the sag and let the shocks do more of the work. Good video, thanks!
Don't use air bags. Ride is ruined and puts stress in the wrong part of the chassis. Ive found the Terrain Tamer stuff to have the best ride and weight capability on this chassis ive installed most. My personal bt50 is fitted with them after 4 different systems.
@@juliangraziani7299 I appreciate the response. I agree airbags aren’t the best. However, I plan on taking the camper off frequently and driving without it. In those situations with 0 weight in the back I imagine the ride could be pretty rough. Also, after a quick search I don’t believe terrain tamer is available in the US :/ As for shocks, do you have any experience with more affordable shocks like the OME nitrocharger or Bilstein? Would love to know your thoughts on those. Thanks!
@@juliangraziani7299 do you run the TT parabolics? I’m looking to swap to those in my BT In the new year, just can’t decide which rate to go with….
I was in the same boat as your are. My 21 Tacoma TRD OR has 3 springs in each rear to hold the weight and Bilstein shocks. It rides really good. To compare; the Hilux LN 106 we have has OEM toyota springs (about 6 springs in each) with Bilstein 5100 but the ride is hard.
Progressive rate coils = Heaven
Best thing I did to my 90 Prado
This is all good practice for when the 2door ineos grenadier arrives and then the real build begins.
Will you need to do bodywork over the rear guards to use full travel. I recall your previous troopy making contact with the km3 if I remember right.
Love the look with the factory splities
Not splitties mate, they got rid of them in 2016 due to OHS rules for mining & government clients
rear axle widened? rear wheels look inline with the front.
Very interesting, next upgrade for me is the suspension system. Now I have some ideas......
Very interesting! Love it!
Will be interesting to see how much the springs settle by.
Yes that was something I shouted at the screen. Andrew is testing the ride and height which will change as it settles over time.
Spot on. I had a troopie with parabolics. Really good except on those whoops and under maximum load bottomed out (trakka conversion). So i put heavy duty springs in. All ok at maximum load. Awful and i mean really awful as the weight came off eg fuel/water. They put a harness through the body ultimately the rear doors drooped. So om keen to see how you go. Since then every cruiser ive left stock
TT or Westralia paras?
@@andrewb5887 long time ago im here in nsw
Still a very goog looking 4x4. Love the blue.
I like the idea of perfectly tuning the suspension to your final weight. Makes perfect sense. Only thing that caught my eye is the front of the lower leaf on the rear springs looks like a it will catch a lot of stuff. Not so much at compression but at drop, it looks like a rock/root catcher.
in fact that how is done; you NEED the final corner weight of the vehicle to calculate the proper spring rates at ride height, then you can tune the shocks to those spring rate (a good guess estimate), then sway bars, etc.. i laugh a lot when i see every single "overlander" or 4 wheeler/whatever that the FIRST thing they do is to install a brand X suspension "kit" and completely ignore everything else.. then complain about it to be to "soft/hard" you name it lol
@@yepitsme431 ASPW has mentioned this in every other build, wonder why he did it early this time. Possibly had nothing else happening so booked in early to keep progress/videos happening.
3:38 Andrew Glow Plugs Mate!
I’ve got the same parabolic in my Vdj 79 single cab for about 3 years and rate them highly
Just under gvm when loaded and they perform great the only difference with my setup is air bags as well
Around 10 to 12 running lite and I go up to 40 loaded mainly on my heavy side but with 0 air they still take the weight well
Good to see you are trying this setup and can go to the 3 leaf version if desired
The shock setup I’m looking closely as I’m about to change mine
Currently running the old man emu foam cell
Cheers
Keen to see more of this
Interesting video, can't wait to find out how the vehicle performs when loaded.
My 110 was typically over sprung and in North Africa it shook itself to pieces, I had to rebuild the door locks as the mechanism ended up in bits at the bottom of the doors.
To save that happening, just load it up more, extra kitchen sink, 3 more water tanks, 20 extra jerry cans of diesel on the roof & 45 cans of baked beans in the drawers 😂 Perhaps swap back to lead acid batteries, they’re good to get the springs working 😂👍
Glad you’ve covered the insulation in the garage….
Good video Andrew! It did give a me thought though. A tech video on what goes into a vehicles GVM rating. I'm sure most people think it is just the spring rating. But it is also tires and axle and I know the frame/chassis comes into play at some point.
Should suspension not be measured from the centre cap to get a true reading. Otherwise you are measuring the tyre height as well which is variable depending on temperature.
😂 Yeah because 3 deg Celsius difference probably makes about 0.0001mm difference in height 🤣
@@GR8Tmate either way, tyres heights change. Maybe it needs to be pumped up. Who knows. It’s just a variable that doesn’t need to be there. If you measure from the centre it’s accurate. And excludes the tyre. Ride height includes tyre, suspension height doesn’t.
@@dunk1 Well it’s exactly where I’d measure from but to suggest that ambient air temperature would make a measurable difference on any given day, just days apart is laughable.
Would have been better stating exactly why it’s a better method. Even with a 10deg Celsius ambient air difference, a tyres pressure would only increase by about 2%. So a Tyre inflated at 45psi, would become 45.9 psi. Most consumer equipment has greater variables than 2%. And that’s just the pressure, the tyres shape AT that pressure variance would move such a minuscule amount, I’m wondering what he’s measuring this with 😂
Remember, I’m not arguing that it’s not a better method, it’s just let’s be more realistic on why it’s a better method.
The greater error would be at what angle Andrew was taking the reading from., or the way he held his tongue 🙄
Anyway, I’m busy replacing the screws that hold my Troopy tail lights in with titanium ones as it will reduce the weight of the truck & increase my payload 👍
Yes, Sam, you are correct. The RVCS DOTARS site clearly says "Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening at unladen mass."
Vehicle lift is measured from the centre of the wheel to a fixed spot on the guard (vertically). It's not measured from the ground.
@@darrenhale6320 It's the relationship between the wheels and body. Measuring from the ground means the "lift" will change if tyre pressures is increased or decreased, if weight is added or removed from the vehicle (load or fuel used), different tyre profiles are changed, and so on.
The RVCS Dotars website state, under suspension data, "Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening at unladen mass." and indicate the front as 544mm and the rear 560mm for the two seater wagon.
@@darrenhale6320 But that's not how it's measured and that's not the figure in the government approved factory specifications in which any comparison is made, both for determining whether the vehicle now meets the ADRs or for insurance purposes. What this video does demonstrate that some people don't understand how the measurement is correctly taken, and what the term "lift" means with reference to ADRs.
Hi. I have a severe height restriction with underground parking. Any suggestions to fix the ride without any lift?
A rear coil conversion would be the ultimate set-up, and will always be superior to leaf springs for this kind of lighter set-up.
Do you mean a Coil Conversion?
@@GR8Tmate yes typo 👍🏻
Did you do any measure if you gain any more suspension travel ?
Andrew, will you please!! Do a build for a family man with a budget, with kids in school and wanting to get out once every six or eight weekends? For the weekend? Please!? Older not so hardcore and extremely expensive vehicles like you use.??
thankyou Andrew. great video as normal. i have EFS springs and shocks. happy with the front, but i feel the rears are too stiff. looking forward to your experience with the parabolics. cheers
G'day Andrew. I am currently playing around with my bp51s on my 2021 DC 79. I am just wondering what you have yours set to for a comparison. Thanks, Matt.
Love your videos Andrew, you have a wealth of knowledge and so much passion! My question is why not opt for a coil conversion? I know its expensive but it dramatically improves the quality of your ride and you get a legal GVM upgrade in the process? You can do the 2inch coil conversion even after the vehicle has been registered.
probably weight, cost and non stock complexity along with niche parts supply
@@andrewb5887 its really not niche. If you look up Jmacx they do a great kit. It actually increases the GVM to 3900. Its is very expensive though, I ordered the kit for my 76 series. Long wait time for car unfortunately!
@@jvnvan736 It's an extremely niche product, I would love to drive a rear coil troopy one day but am hoping toyota does it for me as thats the cost of a car for the large majority of aussies
@@jvnvan736 How long were you told you need to wait for a 76? (12 months in total?)
@@GR8Tmate hey mate, i ordered in August and have been told ill be getting it February. Fingers crossed thats how long it takes!
Hi Andrew completely unrelated question. But how did you replace the pvs badge on the steering with a Toyota badge?
A small lift with a softer spring makes for a better ride. More travel is always better, but a stiff lift spring will never deflect to make use of the additional suspension travel, at least when it not loaded.
Soooooo interesting!!
Would love to see a test on the automatic conversion!
Can we get an update video on your daughters budget xtrail? Have they taken it out yet?
I have a 2019 79 SC from new. I used to carry a camper on but thought the all up weight was to close to GVM. I decided to ditch the camper for a service body and RTT. I have found variable rate king coils with Ralph Tough Dogs and parabolic leafs with Raw nitros have worked well. I have no GVM upgrade and my truck comes in at more than 200Kg below GVM. After several outback trips I'm just starting to feel the shocks are starting to wane. Do you think I should go for a full set of Ralphs or something better. Bill
Why Tom's Farzeutecnik doesn't use parabolics on their Worldcruisers??
Great video, I bought a Iveco Daily 4x4 5.5 TON, but my lightweight expedition camper is only 3.5 TON. So I want to do exactly the same.........
Clever timing at 7:45.
Review for Dunlop 225 tires ?
Are these the 300kg Springs? I called Terrain Tamer as they only list minimum 500-700kg parabolica on their websiste now. Where as for the 76 and 79 they also show the 300kg option. They said the 300kg 3 leaf were deemed not sufficent for the 78 series. So maybe they dont do them anymore?
I also wanted to get these springs for my troopy, but and now worried that the 500-700will be too stiff when my troopy is unladen 75% of the time.
Anyone else know what the go is?
The majority of people don't need a gvm upgrade just need less stuff.
I see you have a scan gauge upfront....when are we seeing that install & what are you currently monitoring?
Usually I go for the softest springs that will provide the hight I want, if soft, I go a step or two up. The shop I deal with don't mind exchanging the springs many times.
If it were me, I'd go for the softest OME BP51 springs as they match the extra travel of the BP51s then go up from there.
Test the full articulation of your front suspension - not full droop of both wheels together - by jacking one side or drive up an incline on the side to make sure the front coils won't dislocate.
I think suspension should be the last thing to add or at least to setup. Until you know your final weight, I don’t see the point in doing even a test drive. Those parabolic springs caught my attention a while ago but I am too conservative to even consider them; at least for the type of travel I do. I do carry a lot of diesel, water, some heavy RTT and a few batteries. In 2022, I want to put my LC79 on a diet and/or at least move some weight forward.
Sorry, has this been painted/wrapped yet or still deciding?
As it turns out, the suspension for the Defender has an advantage in terms of selection. Cheers 🍻
Undersprung and over shocked. Now you are at last taking my language.
What type of tyres ?
try letting the glow plugs do there thing before starting a desiel hey ??????
I wish I could get BP51s, or similar, for my vehicle.
Andrew, you have a problem - the centre hole on the TT pro bushes is 18mm and you've had it installed with the smaller (14mm) Toyota fixed pin. Thats why they slipped in so easy on installation. You will have 4mm of play. The Toyota fixed pin must be used with a Toyota sleeved bush which is what I used for the same TT parabolics in my Troopy. The shackle bushes should be OK because the factory shackle pins are 18mm. And incidentally the TT greasable shackles are 20mm longer if you find you want an extra 10mm lift.
And just to add my only problem with the 3-leaf parabolics is that they need a very strong shock to control the bounce you get with the dunes on the Canning. No inherent dampening. Normal shocks do not cut the mustard, and I was loaded to 3300kg so not over GVM.
I understand the need for shocks that will need to do more work, but I'll look into the pin issue. They should have used the TT supplied pins. Am thinking of swapping to the greaseable OME shackles. I do not want more lift. Good idea?
@@4xoverland ARB have put the original Toyota pins back in yours without realising the fixed pin is smaller. I looked at the parts on the ground and didn't see any TT pins. The TSK031 greasable shackle pins are a good idea because of the extra 20mm of length, and because they are greasable. The TT pro bushes actually are well sealed so the grease doesn't actually come out when you regrease them. TT told me there is no need to regrease them - just make sure they are well greased during installation. I had the TPK011 greasable fixed pin and found the centre hole in the probushes became elongated after the Canning in 2019. So I reinstalled the nice quality Toyota factory pin and sleeved rubber bush. I once had a greasable front pin break on the Gunbarrel about 10 years back so might have a bias against using a greasable fixed pin.
@@philg2468 thanks mate. I'll check that out.
@@4xoverland Have to see how your springs go when loaded. I expect you'll lose 20-30mm of height at the rear if loaded to 3300kg. Thats what mine does. I have the 20mm lift front springs (TTCS-1449) and it sits pretty much level at GVM.
Any recommendations for a more affordable shock? I’m contemplating OME nitrocharger and Bilstein 6112/5160. Terrain would include corrugated roads and minor rock crawling.
I have OME Nitrocharger for 10+ years with OME coils no complaint. I am not very comfortable with the adjustments etc
The TT Parabolics need the strongest shock you can get because they have no interleaf friction
I'm loving this Troopy more and more with every video you post Andrew. Are you going to fit a sun visor?
put airbags in the springs perhaps?
Way to go re- parabolic springs, not sure how long the shocks will last. You do put a lot of weight on your rigs and I get your are trying to reduce it. Hope it works, there is a lot of money in that setup. I don’t have the luxury to swap and change so I find it difficult to relate to your rationale. Thanks for the insight though, your build is very interesting. You may need to upgrade to 4 leaf parabolic’s?
Very interesting, are you guys allowed to put airbags in down there? If a shop was concerned with the idiot factor, they could just say, airbags for your loadout sir.
I have BP51’s on a 105 1HDFTE. They are nice, but adjusting them is a hideous pain. The whole shock body twists. You really need a clamp (oil filter clamp or similar) to hold the shock body so you can twist the adjuster. Some shocks of mine are harder to adjust than others. Please keep us updated on your shock settings Andrew.
That’s why I prefer the King Remote Res Shocks, easier to adjust & overall a better shock imho 🤷🏼♂️. Each to their own though, as what makes this interesting is how different people try to tackle the same problem.
GR8T when I was shock shopping, King remote reservoirs were a ludicrous wait time to ‘possibly’ arrive in Oz. BP51’s didn’t turn out much better though despite much better promises.
The BP51’s are a great shock. They really are. I’d just like to be able to more easily adjust them for towing and loads, that is all. A simple redesign of some tolerances would probably be all that was required.
Set and forget seems to nullify true advantage of adjustability. Might as well just get shocks revalved if you are never going to adjust them again-as I painfully plan to do.
Andrew, will be interested to see how you go. I’ve been running parabolics since 2010 on Landcruisers. My HDJ79 ‘bakkie’ 😄 has the same set up as you, BP51s & TT parabolics 300-500kg rated). I do however have airbags as I’m often changing loads or towing heavy trailers. I won’t be surprised if you end up with the heaviest TT springs in the end, once you do your fit out & load up with water. As for your comments about the 76, I have one as my overlander, the factory suspension was worst of the 6 cruisers I have owned, I did have parabolics on this also & it was awful. My fix was this was the full coil conversion which has fundamentally changed this vehicle in every positive respect. Coils unnecessary on the long wheel base 70s but the 76 it should be mandatory
@@GR8Tmate agree I have bp51s on my cruiser Ute and kings on my LC76 & the kings are worth the extra money. I certainly couldn’t go back to standard shocks after having remote res now
@@user-rv6zk1pp7r Yes, I’m building a new 78, I will be going Kings Remote Res, sure it’s slightly more expensive than the BO51’s but twice the shock. I find it odd that certain people will muck around with certain shock/spring systems when there’s obvious alternatives that are much better. They muck around with other combinations & end up spending a fortune chasing a better result which could of just been obtained by taking note of what’s superior. For me, I’m done mucking around with suspension, I’d rather play with other components that arnt such an issue when I get it wrong 😂
Interesting 🤔
The troepie is looking awesome. Very interested to see how the suspension experiment turns out. I really like the thinking behind it.
LOVE the grey steelies with the "Marie Biscuits" on the troepie! Where is the mags from the 11/08/2021 episode?
I’m going to miss the standard colour when you wrap it. Looks great
Yep, almost the same colour as my Triumph Vitesse S3. Just seems to work with both, odd since the two cars so very different.
I have been using BP51 shocks on my Tacoma for 3 years now and after gettings the springs sorted and dialing in the rebound and compression settings the truck drives like a dream.
I’ve never really understood that term, “Drives like a dream” In my dreams there’s lots of blondes with big boobs…..not sure I want my driving experiences to be like that 😂
I've found getting the right springs to be quite a challenge. I have a V6 Hilux, I carry a very light load in the rear when touring and my engine is a full 75kg lighter than the diesel, and unfortunately the diesel is the default for suspension companies.
being conservative is also fitting what is needed 95% of the vehicle in action (as a whole). So being frugal on equipment must have a reflection on the fitting of weight handling equipment (aka suspension)
As well as tires/wheels. People tend to overequip TLC just because they can handle big wheels and tires.
100% agreed
Slightly ironic that you’re discussing very soft springs with the shocks doing the hard work whilst wearing a Range Rover Classic T-shirt…
Dave Moss Tuning for overland.