Appreciate the rigor, hope more videos are on the way! Lots of nimh battery brands out there. PowerOwl seems to have made a sponsored push on RUclips since a ton of reviews popped up recently. HiQuick, EBL, Tenergy come to mind. Amazon Basics I just don’t trust. I bought 8 AAs, their 2400mah ones, and on the 2nd recharge one overheated enough that it melted part of my XTAR charger and its own plastic cover and was outgasing some fumes. The XTAR slot it was in still works despite some melting and it’s never done it again so I tend to blame the battery.
Thanks for the kind words! PowerOwl seems to have two NiMH cells, both 2800mAh. One claims to be low discharge, the other, called the GoldTop is a dollar cheaper (package of 16) on their web site. Which model are you most interested in? So far we've only characterized the discharge characteristics of NiMH, for comparison with other chemistries. We feel a full evaluation of performance (and value) would include their lifetime cycle count, but that would be crazy expensive to test in a reproduceable way.
The quiescent current of the regulator for Lithium-Ion batteries would definitely be interesting to assess for self-discharge. It’s obviously tricky to measure accurately, maybe requiring the batteries to be taken apart and the regulator measured separately-either without the cell or between the cell and the regulator.
Yes, we could tear down the cells and measure quiescent current as you suggest, but the important metric for a user is shelf life, which includes self-discharge. We log the recharge of tested cells so that we can look at how much energy they retain in the future. Stay tuned!
I've been using recharge batteries on my digital lock for years without problem with some modification. I added a bank of backup battery no 2 with a change over switch to operate when battery no 1 is low, also have battery no 3 charge offline knowing that no 1 is low. Just keep rotating them.
NiMH fans tend to overstate the "economic" and "environmentally-friendly" nature of the rechargeable but often ignore the convenience factor that you talked about at 3:35 ~ given the decreasing number of devices average people use frequently that use AA/AAA, and cheap alkalines last like 1-2 years for their remote, mouse, etc, that only costs 1-2 bucks a year, it's really not an important issue for most people compared to much bigger issues like transportation or heating (when it comes to energy use & money spent)
Agreed. If batteries are a significant component of the total cost of ownership, informed buyers will demand devices with a rechargeable battery and a facility for convenient recharging.
Thank you for these two videos. One always wonders how good the Chinese batteries really are. I use a Sony HVL-F60RM2 flash with a Sony FA-EBA1 External Battery Pack. The flash holds 4 AA batteries, and the external battery pack holds 8 AA batteries. I have been using Energizer Ultimate Lithium in the flash and Panasonic Eneloop Pro Ni-Mh BK-3HCDA in the battery pack. I have recently become aware of the RF problems with Li-ion rechargeable batteries. I want to use a high-energy lithium rechargeable battery in the battery pack. I have two questions. 1. How far out does the interference affect other devices? 2. Could I wrap the battery pack in aluminum foil to prevent RF interference? What kind of battery configuration would you suggest?
There are two types of EMI, conducted (in wires) and radiated (in space). EMI is like water under pressure. It flows along wires like water through a pipe, exploiting every imperfection in the plumbing to find its way to freedom. So the EMI generated by lithium-ion AA cells in your external battery pack will be conducted along the power cable to the flash and into flash circuitry. It will radiate from the battery pack, from the interconnecting cable, from the flash, exploiting any breaks in the shielding, like the hole for the cable in your aluminium foil wrap. Unless the manufacturer designed and tested their product to use lithium-ion AAs, it’s anyone’s guess how it’ll perform and what effects it’ll have on nearby equipment. Electronic flashes are essentially boost-converters, typically converting 6V to hundreds of volts. There’re designed to be powered by cells that instantaneously source heavy transient currents. The buck-regulators in lithium-ion AAs take time to respond to load increases. You probably won't damage anything trying them out, but you'll have a setup you can't rely upon, if it works at all. In your case we recommend you stick with the alkaline and NiMH cells Sony recommends. Though Sony doesn’t say so, LiFeS2 cells should also work reliably, have the most energy, are the lightest option, but are disposable. See our web site for the best deals in all three chemistries.
You should test the EBL lithium 3500 mAh (blue and black). A lot of people recommend EBL for their blink cameras. I see an eightPack of them- fifteenBucks. Not bad, if they are as good as people say. This series if fantastic.. I hope you keep going with the testing. I Subbed. ;)
Thanks for the suggestion and the sub. Amazon Canada doesn’t have them (ASIN B0CY213G71), but we’ll bring samples in next time we order from Amazon.com.
Would love to use rechargeable batteries in my smart locks. However, the manufacturer (Yale) only recommends alkaline batteries. Furthermore, when I tried the XTar rechargeable li-ion AA, about 3 months later the locked died mysteriously. I can't conclusively blame the XTar, but the timing can't be ignored.
@@on-the-fritz yes, and yes. Though I wonder when you connect these in series like in a device that requires four batteries, whether that affects their voltage regulator in some weird way.
I've been looking to replace the disposable AA-batteries in my Yale locks with rechargeable batteries, but like you, noticed that they tell you to not use rechargeable or Lithium-based batteries of any kind. At first I was thinking it had just to do with low battery warnings, since they'd measure the voltage drop to give you a fair warning before they die. They have to cater to the lowest common denominator, and they don't want to lock people out of their homes for not understanding the nuances, so perhaps they just wanted to avoid the fuss it would generate. But seeing these tests I'm starting to think that it also has to do with EMI. Going to avoid it for now.
@@foobar6846 Definitely, especially since I had to RMA a dead Yale lock and it was a PITA with their poor customer service. Yale was recently acquired by another company and so they're having downsizing of personnel.
the other question is the actual longevity. they claim 500 cycles.. but thats just on paper. definately not applicaple in the real world i ran trough several nimh cells on my headphones, i allways charge them to 100% when they are so empty that the headphones shut off (
Manufacturers are deliberately vague. Ikea, for example, says "you can charge them up to 500 times", but doesn't specify how much of a charge they'll hold over time. That said, the economics of NiMH are so compelling, even if they are worn out after 100 discharge/charge cycles, they are still much cheaper than disposables-if their voltage issues aren't a problem.
Noise-cancelling usually means some digital signal processing, which means a sampling clock, which could mix with the buck-regulator PWM. On the other hand, at low current the buck-regulator could stay in discontinuous mode. Do share if you try it out.
Really appreciate the rigor here -- looking forward to any other reviews you do.
Excellent research!
Thanks!
Appreciate the rigor, hope more videos are on the way! Lots of nimh battery brands out there. PowerOwl seems to have made a sponsored push on RUclips since a ton of reviews popped up recently. HiQuick, EBL, Tenergy come to mind.
Amazon Basics I just don’t trust. I bought 8 AAs, their 2400mah ones, and on the 2nd recharge one overheated enough that it melted part of my XTAR charger and its own plastic cover and was outgasing some fumes. The XTAR slot it was in still works despite some melting and it’s never done it again so I tend to blame the battery.
Thanks for the kind words!
PowerOwl seems to have two NiMH cells, both 2800mAh. One claims to be low discharge, the other, called the GoldTop is a dollar cheaper (package of 16) on their web site. Which model are you most interested in?
So far we've only characterized the discharge characteristics of NiMH, for comparison with other chemistries. We feel a full evaluation of performance (and value) would include their lifetime cycle count, but that would be crazy expensive to test in a reproduceable way.
The quiescent current of the regulator for Lithium-Ion batteries would definitely be interesting to assess for self-discharge. It’s obviously tricky to measure accurately, maybe requiring the batteries to be taken apart and the regulator measured separately-either without the cell or between the cell and the regulator.
Yes, we could tear down the cells and measure quiescent current as you suggest, but the important metric for a user is shelf life, which includes self-discharge. We log the recharge of tested cells so that we can look at how much energy they retain in the future. Stay tuned!
I've been using recharge batteries on my digital lock for years without problem with some modification. I added a bank of backup battery no 2 with a change over switch to operate when battery no 1 is low, also have battery no 3 charge offline knowing that no 1 is low. Just keep rotating them.
Your lock takes AA cells? Is your switch manual or automatic?
Manually change over while waiting for the 3rd set of batteries to charge up
Yes my lock uses 4pcs of AA cell
NiMH fans tend to overstate the "economic" and "environmentally-friendly" nature of the rechargeable but often ignore the convenience factor that you talked about at 3:35 ~ given the decreasing number of devices average people use frequently that use AA/AAA, and cheap alkalines last like 1-2 years for their remote, mouse, etc, that only costs 1-2 bucks a year, it's really not an important issue for most people compared to much bigger issues like transportation or heating (when it comes to energy use & money spent)
Agreed. If batteries are a significant component of the total cost of ownership, informed buyers will demand devices with a rechargeable battery and a facility for convenient recharging.
I Love this, why can't all humans just try to be useful
It’s our humble purpose to provide a measure of certainty in an uncertain world. We’re glad you liked it.
Thank you for these two videos. One always wonders how good the Chinese batteries really are.
I use a Sony HVL-F60RM2 flash with a Sony FA-EBA1 External Battery Pack. The flash holds 4 AA batteries, and the external battery pack holds 8 AA batteries. I have been using Energizer Ultimate Lithium in the flash and Panasonic Eneloop Pro Ni-Mh BK-3HCDA in the battery pack. I have recently become aware of the RF problems with Li-ion rechargeable batteries. I want to use a high-energy lithium rechargeable battery in the battery pack. I have two questions. 1. How far out does the interference affect other devices? 2. Could I wrap the battery pack in aluminum foil to prevent RF interference? What kind of battery configuration would you suggest?
There are two types of EMI, conducted (in wires) and radiated (in space). EMI is like water under pressure. It flows along wires like water through a pipe, exploiting every imperfection in the plumbing to find its way to freedom. So the EMI generated by lithium-ion AA cells in your external battery pack will be conducted along the power cable to the flash and into flash circuitry. It will radiate from the battery pack, from the interconnecting cable, from the flash, exploiting any breaks in the shielding, like the hole for the cable in your aluminium foil wrap. Unless the manufacturer designed and tested their product to use lithium-ion AAs, it’s anyone’s guess how it’ll perform and what effects it’ll have on nearby equipment.
Electronic flashes are essentially boost-converters, typically converting 6V to hundreds of volts. There’re designed to be powered by cells that instantaneously source heavy transient currents. The buck-regulators in lithium-ion AAs take time to respond to load increases. You probably won't damage anything trying them out, but you'll have a setup you can't rely upon, if it works at all.
In your case we recommend you stick with the alkaline and NiMH cells Sony recommends. Though Sony doesn’t say so, LiFeS2 cells should also work reliably, have the most energy, are the lightest option, but are disposable. See our web site for the best deals in all three chemistries.
You should test the EBL lithium 3500 mAh (blue and black). A lot of people recommend EBL for their blink cameras. I see an eightPack of them- fifteenBucks. Not bad, if they are as good as people say. This series if fantastic.. I hope you keep going with the testing. I Subbed. ;)
Thanks for the suggestion and the sub. Amazon Canada doesn’t have them (ASIN B0CY213G71), but we’ll bring samples in next time we order from Amazon.com.
Would love to use rechargeable batteries in my smart locks. However, the manufacturer (Yale) only recommends alkaline batteries. Furthermore, when I tried the XTar rechargeable li-ion AA, about 3 months later the locked died mysteriously. I can't conclusively blame the XTar, but the timing can't be ignored.
Do the XTAR AAs still work? Do they still have a 1.5V output?
@@on-the-fritz yes, and yes. Though I wonder when you connect these in series like in a device that requires four batteries, whether that affects their voltage regulator in some weird way.
We put four XTAR AAs in a holder and tested them as a 6V battery. We didn't see anything unexpected happening at 0 mA, 50 mA, 100 mA and 1A.
I've been looking to replace the disposable AA-batteries in my Yale locks with rechargeable batteries, but like you, noticed that they tell you to not use rechargeable or Lithium-based batteries of any kind. At first I was thinking it had just to do with low battery warnings, since they'd measure the voltage drop to give you a fair warning before they die. They have to cater to the lowest common denominator, and they don't want to lock people out of their homes for not understanding the nuances, so perhaps they just wanted to avoid the fuss it would generate.
But seeing these tests I'm starting to think that it also has to do with EMI. Going to avoid it for now.
@@foobar6846 Definitely, especially since I had to RMA a dead Yale lock and it was a PITA with their poor customer service. Yale was recently acquired by another company and so they're having downsizing of personnel.
the other question is the actual longevity. they claim 500 cycles.. but thats just on paper. definately not applicaple in the real world
i ran trough several nimh cells on my headphones, i allways charge them to 100% when they are so empty that the headphones shut off (
Manufacturers are deliberately vague. Ikea, for example, says "you can charge them up to 500 times", but doesn't specify how much of a charge they'll hold over time. That said, the economics of NiMH are so compelling, even if they are worn out after 100 discharge/charge cycles, they are still much cheaper than disposables-if their voltage issues aren't a problem.
Are they wireless headphones?
@@on-the-fritz no, but have active noise cancelling
Noise-cancelling usually means some digital signal processing, which means a sampling clock, which could mix with the buck-regulator PWM. On the other hand, at low current the buck-regulator could stay in discontinuous mode. Do share if you try it out.