If you guys enjoyed the video, please SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON. It helps the channel out a huge amount and helps RUclips put the video in front of more people. Thanks for watching 😬
The exhaust manifold integrated to the cylinder head is very bad for tuning for high rpm and also transfers more heat to the cylinder head, one piece is saved and the engine warms up before the rest is all bad. The engines are currently basically garbage.
K20A is the better one for now. Wish you would have added how horrible the Honda, paddle shifted CVT is. Under 10K worth of performance driving, the pulley's scored up fast. CVT'S are not performance transmissions. They should have never put paddle shifters on it. All shifting on a CVT is simulated or just a held position on the pulley's.
bug productions I knew that in the early 90,s dude, Honda always lead the way putting racing engines in the road at affordable prices for the public domain
Theres just something so satisfying about having to work a bit to rev out an engine to get the power out. Also, it's very satisfying hearing a turbo spool and being pushed back into the seat when it takes off. Wish I could afford both.
I have a k24a with a k20a head. The first version was all stock internals N/A. Dyno 212 hp at the tires. 2nd and current set up with a Garrett t3, 1050cc injectors, running low boost (11psi)on stock internals 404 hp at the tires. Next version will get rods, pistons and cams with 20psi. Hoping for 600 hp. I'll stick with the A series.
we are easily getting 600whp+ on stock K20C in our Type Rs now. Look it up. With upgraded turbo of course. We even have drop in turbos putting out 600whp.
you can buy a k20c2 that is 500-600$ on ebay low miles a its the same block and put change the Internals. but if you are the type of person who just does a swap and dosnt build their motor whats the point of the swap
BearGang you ain't getting a low mileage engine k series that cheap k20a3 maybe but you need all the stuff to swap engine into car is going to be a couple thousand dollars. You will never find the 1000 $ fabled swap, sure some might have but they knew the person or it was a friend. You would be better of getting forged rods pistons and install in motor then eBay turbo it. You will still be cheaper than k series swap. With Honda's you can put forged rods and pistons in motor while it sits in the car
Not the first time they've done that B20A vs the entire rest of the B-series platform. Or the DOHC "D" Series, which share very little with the rest of the line.
Agreed. Tbh, Im more of a B series fan myself. Though the K is definitely the superior motor, I'd rather daily a B16/17/18 with bolt ons because to me they sound better.
Not me that's for sure, lol. To me it's just a better driving experience, the B just sounds more raw than the K and it sort of gives me a nostalgic feeling. Like I'm in the early 2000s during the tuner craze.
@@johnbowden7058 my H22 swap with JDM Fujitsubo header and Greddy exhaust sounds way more splattery and backfirey than my RSX type s with nvidia exhaust. RSX handles better, but that exhaust sound is priceless
I am running an EP3 type r With 409 hp And it is coping with the power absolutely fine just like you said I prefer the older K 20A as I love to hear these engines scream 😱
whats not to love about the k series? High flowing head from factory, holds 400whp just fine on an unopened motor, goes quick in NA or turbocharged applications.
@@mrniceguy7168with proper tuning on a k20, upto 500hp, even boosted, its lifetime won't be decreased from stock. Bad tuning and it's done in the first dyno run. You have to make absolutely insane power to start worrying about actually bending rods or something due to too much torque. It's almost always detonation that kills things, which tuning. Of course more power means more cylinder pressure means more chance of det. Take det out of the equation and I'd bet a k20 could do 800hp and last as long as stock..but unfortunately det is always part of the equation.
@@forbiddenera are there any examples of high mileage high horsepower K engines? I’m dubious that a high horsepower K engine can go over 200k miles like most other Honda engines can easily do
@@mrniceguy7168 I'm sure there is lots. K is better than B, and I've had several B's run for ages at 350hp which were all engines with at least 250,000km on them and the only time one has died was from detonation
9:45 wow thanks for your wealth of knowledge on these engines. I've been interested in a K20 swap for my car and I didn't realize the engine was much smaller. TIL thanks man
@@smokepeddler I'm on stock axles tranny, transfer, diff, turbo and internals and I'm pushing 420whp. As long as you slip the clutch instead of dumping it you won't break until after 550-600whp.
The K20C guys will soon get to share some of the same problems as us ford ecoboost guys have. The integrated manifold prevents us from going over 600hp and creates a ton of backpressure on the exhaust side. Its really a shame because the closed deck ecboost blocks are pretty stout but we cant do shit about the head. If i was building a honda i would definitely go with the k24 or k20a
@jachpriboy8989 retarded honda fanboi, show me a past 600whp civic type r using the k20c? Stoo being a fanboi and accept the fact kid, thats why people go for the k20's without the integrated manifold. I cant stand wanna be honda fantards like you.2
Bottom line, one engine was designed for a turbo and the other one was not. In my opinion, leave the K20C stock and enjoy it as it is. According to this guy, try to tune the type R too much and you'll bend the rods. At the end of the day, it's not worth it. Enjoy the car in its stock form and you'll get easily 200 to 300,000 mi with proper maintenance.
Do d16z6 next. That's the engine that I am currently building to handle 400+ HP. People don't give the single cam enough credit when it's actually a cost effective route.
Watchu talkin bout... the single cams have been gettin clout for the last decade now man. Goto any honda specific show an ull see more D or F series single cam builds than u will B or H's nowadays.
K20C doesnt sound as nice yeah, but I appreciate that Honda is putting in a car as good as the FK8 hopefully they shove a K20C4 or something detuned in the 11th gen Si haha
Thanks for the video @Dust Runners Automotive Journal. The difference of these two engines are (K20A vs. K20C): - high revving concept vs. down sizing concept - EURO 3 emissions concept vs. EURO 6 emission concept - high performance concept vs. emission driven performance concept - modulare head setup vs. fixed Out of that many details can be explained like the port design differences, the revving capability, tribological characteristics and so on. Rating them in one sentence is like comparing apples and bananas. It's not fair as they had different development goals. For me the K20A, K20A2, K20Z1, K20Z3, K20Z4 are one of the best base engines for developing high performance engines out of it, no matter which induction concept: NA or FI. It comes with one of the best aftermarkets and the potential of these engines is still not released at full size. Regarding the direction of engine development Honda take for the K20C, I don't agree with it is the right direction. The down sizing concept comes with a lot of disadvantages regarding sustainability in development, it's a completely certification cycle driven development (NEDC, WLTP), many engine concepts from the late 80'ies to 90'ies can compete with the real driving emissions of those engines regarding particles and NOx. It helped the car manufacturers to increase the chassis weight while keeping the dynamic level or even increase it. That's a total wrong way. Honda choose it too. I was so disappointing, despite I understand they wanted to compete in the I4-performance engine car market. For me the better direction is chosen by Toyota Dynamic Force or even more the Mazda SkyActive X engines are the way to go. IC engine'd cars have a hard time competing against that certification cycle preferred E-machined cars. Downsizing won't help to compete, it helps to shorten the era of the IC engines. Honda's engine strategy was really disappointing me, once they had the best and bravest engine engineering teams and strategy, now they are just average. What happens not being innovative, plans to fire employees: Daimler 30.000, VW 20.000, BMW ... and so on. The all missed to adjust their strategy right in time. Now the big kaboom can be seen all over here in Europe. Tesla teaches them all, a company with a few years of experience teaches companies with almost 100 years of experience where to go. No sorry, Honda missed that too. Honda failed to chose the right way and just went into business as usual. The first and expensive step into the wrong direction can be the first into a row of steps into a lower noise-signal-ratio regarding market awareness in future or when turning back into right direction at a lower EBIT.
I choose the K20C1 4my 2008 Honda Element SC daily driver because of the low end torque. I plan the elimination of steering hydraulics by upgrading 2a full EPS steering rack. My only concerns now are the adaptation of the unit as a direct bolt in, i.e. engine mounts, AC compressor, alternator &computer. I'm not worried about intercooler piping, turbo lubrication or cooling. Any help here?
If I was a betting man, Id skip the new CTR and buy a Civic Sport and drop a turbo K20A. If someone isnt making mounting hardware for this retrofit, they should and keep me in mind for royalties...
K20A with forced induction >K20c anyday of the week.K20c has vtec only on exhaust cam and it has the same problem like the 9gen civic si K24Z7 and that is the integrated exhaust manifold in the head stock vs stock both are in different league but if talk about modified then K20A is simply a more performance oriented engine and the cylinder head of the K20A flows way better as compared to the K20c
It doesn't flow as well because of the direct injection. This swirls the air giving it more grunt down low and a cleaner burning fuel mix. Hondata ported a k20c head and it flowed just as well as older k series, but it kills the low end torque. K20c1 is for the guy who wants a turbo Honda, but don't want to deal with the headache doing it yourself causes.
@@snakeballs8965 the exhaust maniflold is also integrated in the cylinder head it can never flow as good as a K20A even if ported.same is the problem with the 9gen civc si k24z7
Interesting, I have a buddy who’s out of FL and he use to work on Hondas. Hell he had a turbo K in an RSX and is working on an MR2 K. I was asking him about the new CTR K or the Accord K and he said pretty much what you’re saying. He did said if he ever sees one in the junkyard he will yank the whole setup because he adores the chassis look.
The K20A got 36 mpg in my RSX-S during the daily highway commute. If I drive very economically with my K20C (FL5) I can barely get 32 on a good week. Yeah, I know, these aren't meant for economy but just thought I'd add it in. If I drive the Type R like I really want to, it will do mid 20s.
Although the k20a2 that was used in the type s Rsx was the same engine used in the ep3 type r civic. It's not the same as the k20A used in the itr,the a has a higher redline,higher compression and 20 more hp
The JDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A as the DC5 Integra Type R. The UKDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A2 that’s in the pre facelift RSX Type S. The US EP3 had a K20A3 which only made 160hp
you are wrong there look more into the k20c i havea k20c2 motor and it would cost me more to get a k24a/k20a to the same power with the stock k20c1 motor you can get it to 450hp safely with same internals k20/k24 you have to change everthing out plus sleeve it . k20c1 you dont need to sleeve it also the k20c4 already comes sleeved i for my k20c2 for free reason i am trying to build it up and it only has 17k miles on it people like you talk but dont know cars good luck
@@beargang8853 dude do you have a base Civic LX? Those are the only cars i know of with the K20C2 and I completely agree with you. People sleep on it because it only makes 158hp stock, but it's just a type R engine without the head, turbo, or internals. I like the engine so much more than the shitty 1.5t they've been putting in everything.
@Arthur Wall all that torque breaking rods or spinning tyres coz its a FWD. By the way k24 makes torque on boost. Mine is making 400 lb and 511 hp on 15 psi.stock k24a2. A k20 will make near 350 lb torque on 15 psi depending upon the turbo size.but still its enough.and wow that 8600 rev limits ..
As long as you keep the torque low on the k20a k20a2 you can push 400bhp on a stock engine and still be reliable the con rods are the weak point on the k20a
I love my 8th gen civic si K20Z3 More than my RSX Type S K20A It just feels better and the seats are more comfortable, but i like the look of the rsx more.
Whoa the errors... K20A3 base model only does the fancy valve stepping on the Intake, it constantly works the both exhaust valves. K20A/A2/Z1 or the Type S/R engines, gets variable timing and lift on both sides. It's why the A3 will out pull the A2 until the A2 hits VTEC. It's why I prefer the A3 engine as well. A3: 141ft/lb 4000RPM A2: 142ft/lb 6000RPM Z1: 143ft/lb 6200RPM
It's all about the application. With small bore machines, you have to not only know how you want to use the car, but understand where you want to be a year or two down the road, when you've saved up more money and can make the car a full race vehicle or just a stoplight sleeper with power to terrorize the neighborhood with. The two applications might seem similar, but you couldn't be more wrong.
when you said k20c is way better because of the flat curve powerband which is absolutely wrong. the reason why it need low end toque because the fact that its not n/a like the k20a. if the k20a were build with the same low end power it wouldnt be able to get as high as hp as it can get. so yes, its a completely different engine because of its characteristic.
k20c can handle alot more hp than the K20a stock the k20c4 is the same as the k20c2 but they beefed up internals even has cast iron sleeves but only offer in japan i have a k20c2 motor and trann i plan on swaping in my 1997 Prelude already have a fab guy ready to help me get it in there than once it fits ill clean up the car more and mostly buy a 2nd motor to beef up while. i want to send it to 4pison to beef up the 2nd motor i used to want to have k24 but than when i started doing my reserach k20c is way better
Neither motor is better than each other they have their required application. Also there are a lot of folks in the past 20 years that have been asking for a fully stock turbo Civic and here you go you got it for all of you that wanted that out of the showroom
Touche! My point was simply If there is going to be a comparison on the k20c and "k20A" let's hear it,but this comparison was between the k20c and k20A2 and A3 not the "A"
So put a turbo on a K20A or K20A2 drop the compression by changing the pistons or getting a thicker head gasket and you have a more reliable engine than the K20C and a fraction of the cost of buying a car with the K20C in it. Sounds logical right, or am I missing something? Honestly am I missing something in my logic, please correct me if I am wrong.
Does anyone remember The Pontiac GTP 3.6L Supercharged V6 from back in the day? It was really easy to get power out of but Chevy/Grand Am of course fucked it up by making its transmission only able to hold just barely more power than what it made before it turned into a grenade. Why would Chevy/Grand Am do something like that to The Grand Am GTP if they knew how easy it was to modify and make more power? Okay so bare with me...Why would Honda design a turbo engine that couldn't stand at least 100-200 more torque knowing that turbo engines(Honda or otherwise)are probably the most modified cars in the entire world besides V8's? (I'm not getting into that discussion what's modified more turbo'd engines or V8's that's besides the point). Well the first aftermarket company to make bullet proof con rods, pistons, and successful modified heads for the K20C will make a pretty penny. I see the K20C as the engine as the last petrol engine for Honda until it goes fully electric and Petrol Heads that's much sooner than you want to realize. Hey just think, won't it be fun learning a new craft on how to modify an electric car? If anyone wants to respond I'd love to hear it. I ask for your opinions not arguments b/c I think arguments are a waste of time. If I have been mistaken about my anything I've said let me know(well besides that EV's are the wave of the future)and show me the info so I can learn.
K20a2/z1/z3 can survive 500whp daily driven and be fine. The k20c can not. Just saying. The k20c was ment to be a track midrange car while the k20a/z are made to be a all around engine.
Awesome video.thanks.im bias but k20a with turbo way better than k20c.love my k20a in my base model 97ek civic.na and stock it's as quick if not quicker than a fk8
i like the idea of the newer k20c stock or lightly modded for daily use; the k20a heavily modded for race application and big power. after seeing that accord wagon w the k20c in it, all i can think about is the k20c in my 99crv awd w that low end torque.
In the uk we got the type R ep3 that sold 36,000 units plus next gen fn2 type R that sold a bunch aswell this meant we got hi pro version unlike in the US where you got the family car k20 in accords and typeS integra which is a completely different format.
One thing i know all this talk about the different mechanics of different engines is all good and well and yes most do what they do well but what is never mentioned what is needed to make it all happen is the ecu, modding engines to the point of hp worth having requires ecu mods if not total replacement and that's when you need deep pockets. Tuning modern engines is a bottomless pit, personally old school price, ease of maintenance, and no uni degree required so it doesn't go BANG on start up. Feel free to change my mind.
For those Honda cars that have a four sylender engine and have a cvt transmission especially the cvt transmission cause those need changing the fluid more often
The K20C2 is naturally aspirated. So the difference between the letters isn't because of aspiration. If it is, then I'd like someone to explain the lettering and numbering system so that the logic fits, but so far from what I've figured out, the C is either a newer or different market than the A, and the numbers after indicate combinations of VTEC and turbocharging.
The main thing that i don t like about the new k20 is how plasticky some parts for it are. My k24a3 is 20 years old.Changed some gaskets and seals once and that s about it.Not one single drop of oil,not one.Aluminium for valve cover and cast iron for the intake are much better materials than fing plastic.Just look at that skunk intake how sturdy and good it looks on that k20A.
K20c is not Honda , k20c was designed and developed in Honda America not the original Honda japan! I was a fan of Honda but no longer because Honda moved from being a Japanese to Americanised .
K 20 Z 1 Running 28 lbs boost, is all you need, that direct injection does not cut it, way too much complication, size too big. Much harder Mod, and not sure if it can take it. Sleeve a K 20 (A) (A2) (Z) etc, Forged internals, crank up the boost, and you have Torque and HP.
Are the mounts in the same spots? Can you swap a k20c into car that has a k20a? I’ve beeen trying to figure this out for a minute. I have a k20c I’m putting into a Mini Cooper. I want to know if I can use a subframe swap kit for a k20a
Before I even watch doesn't the k20c1 only have VTEC on the exhaust cam? And the K20a has VTEC on the exhaust and intake cams. Am I right or wrong if this guy doesn't explain it? I just got into Hondas a few years ago when I found PFI so I don't know Jack about this stuff but I'm learning. And I'm testing my memory skills also.
Do they bother with different internal components between the NA K20C (used in Civic Sport in the US) and Turbo versions? If so, the internals in the NA engine must last forever in stock form.
Dust Runner. Do you know how to get a hp vs altitude graph for the turbo? The NA will loose about 3% per 1000ft. As you know factory hp are measured of adjusted to sea level and Std temp. Just wondering
What do you have to say about the Toyota ZR engine series? Please do something on this it's so widely distributed around the world and the content would surely make for a lot of views.
I have had many civics in my life but I love my FK8. However I miss my 99 EM1 with a B16B. The K20C is more practical because of low torque but I do miss that high rev sound of the old Bseries. I liked my 13 FB6 K24 flet like a good balance.
No offense but why would you spend the money for a B16B to swap into an EM1 that already had a B16A* that you could just buy cams and springs for to equal the power?
Honda is going the route of boost and torque over high reving n/a horsepower because their chassis have become bigger and heavier like other manufacturers. Civic type R is well over 3 thousand pounds while the original ek9 was around 2300 lbs. This increase in size and weight has resulted in more power needed. The reason everyone is swapping ks into their eks, egs, and crx or intregras are because the older lighter chassis are pure Honda at heart. Minimalist.
K20A is more reliable, there’s no oil dilution! So Honda should have just added a turbo to k20A for the win!! That’s what I have in my Civic sport sedan, I love that car!!
We see now k20 stock block with only springs and retainers boosted holding 700+ no problems, my neighbor has one 625 hp beating it now for a year and 2 months. K20A the perfect engine so far honda has built.
@@sketchypigeon1070 I disagree somewhat. No VTEC on the intake cams is seriously disappointing. Even Like Wilson from 4Piston said it. This is seems to have been engineered with a disregard for tuners. And if you follow the Hasport k20c1 videos were the they try to fit the new engine into older chassis, you will find it almost impossible to fit in. Why?
I have both and love them both. But for everyday driving...power is more available on the turbo car...unless I rev the heck out of the non-turbo. …reliability of the turbo...well...yet to find out....
If you guys enjoyed the video, please SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON. It helps the channel out a huge amount and helps RUclips put the video in front of more people. Thanks for watching 😬
We need a K20C comparison to the N/A K20C2.
The exhaust manifold integrated to the cylinder head is very bad for tuning for high rpm and also transfers more heat to the cylinder head, one piece is saved and the engine warms up before the rest is all bad. The engines are currently basically garbage.
K20A is the better one for now. Wish you would have added how horrible the Honda, paddle shifted CVT is. Under 10K worth of performance driving, the pulley's scored up fast. CVT'S are not performance transmissions.
They should have never put paddle shifters on it. All shifting on a CVT is simulated or just a held position on the pulley's.
@@christophergarrido2802 i was about to post about that ! Some people tell it’s doesn’t have potential the k20c2 but i think and believe it does !
After watching 3 of youre vids in a row, I've learned that Japanese engine's, built in the 90's, were fucking awesome and ahead of their time.
The b16 was ahead of its time. That same engine was introduced from 88-89 to 2000.
bug productions I knew that in the early 90,s dude, Honda always lead the way putting racing engines in the road at affordable prices for the public domain
@@ClearWater7.62 #facts
Arthur Wall 😃 👌
The J was ahead of its game now it’s in the nsx lol a accord tl rl cl odd pilot Ridgeline and my hatchbacks engine the v6 ftw
Theres just something so satisfying about having to work a bit to rev out an engine to get the power out. Also, it's very satisfying hearing a turbo spool and being pushed back into the seat when it takes off. Wish I could afford both.
Moral of the story is.. boost your k20a. Or B series.... Or H series
MOAR BOOST
Or d series
Or F Series
Moral of the story ebay turbo kit makes any honda a 2018 type r
Or J series
Honda boys never shut up about the K20, but with good reason
How about K24 :P
K24A2 for the win.
K20Z3 for my win
Best engine for me ! More tq , great top end , k24a2 ftw
J35’s on top
I have a k24a with a k20a head.
The first version was all stock internals N/A. Dyno 212 hp at the tires.
2nd and current set up with a Garrett t3, 1050cc injectors, running low boost (11psi)on stock internals 404 hp at the tires.
Next version will get rods, pistons and cams with 20psi. Hoping for 600 hp.
I'll stick with the A series.
we are easily getting 600whp+ on stock K20C in our Type Rs now. Look it up. With upgraded turbo of course. We even have drop in turbos putting out 600whp.
@@RetrOGz you also cost forty grand more
Heres a difference, I CANT AFFORD A HONDA CIVIC TYPE R ENGINE.
@James Smith no, what i meant was the k20c shit
you can buy a k20c2 that is 500-600$ on ebay low miles a its the same block and put change the Internals. but if you are the type of person who just does a swap and dosnt build their motor whats the point of the swap
BearGang you ain't getting a low mileage engine k series that cheap k20a3 maybe but you need all the stuff to swap engine into car is going to be a couple thousand dollars. You will never find the 1000 $ fabled swap, sure some might have but they knew the person or it was a friend. You would be better of getting forged rods pistons and install in motor then eBay turbo it. You will still be cheaper than k series swap. With Honda's you can put forged rods and pistons in motor while it sits in the car
BearGang have you seen the turbo d16y7 or d16y8 turbocharged videos on RUclips check it out you will change your mind on swapping
@@spankthemonkey3437 i have seen it. it doenst change my mind at all
They should have never called the new engine a K series. It’s a completely different design, like WTF, Honda? What are you guys smoking over there?
You mean like the f22b (accord), the f20b (euroR) and the f20c (s2k)?
@@joeybaker7740 Or the c27a and the c30, c32, c35
They couldnt match the competitors hp and emissions so they went turbo
@@joeybaker7740 Isn't the Euro R the H22A?
Not the first time they've done that B20A vs the entire rest of the B-series platform. Or the DOHC "D" Series, which share very little with the rest of the line.
I’ll say a K20A even though I am a big fan of B18C
Agreed. Tbh, Im more of a B series fan myself. Though the K is definitely the superior motor, I'd rather daily a B16/17/18 with bolt ons because to me they sound better.
@@johnbowden7058 I'm with this statement even though my car is a k😂
@John Bowden that's great man. Yea I love my TSX but honestly who doesn't love the classic appeal of a good B
Not me that's for sure, lol. To me it's just a better driving experience, the B just sounds more raw than the K and it sort of gives me a nostalgic feeling. Like I'm in the early 2000s during the tuner craze.
@@johnbowden7058 my H22 swap with JDM Fujitsubo header and Greddy exhaust sounds way more splattery and backfirey than my RSX type s with nvidia exhaust. RSX handles better, but that exhaust sound is priceless
I am running an EP3 type r With 409 hp And it is coping with the power absolutely fine just like you said I prefer the older K 20A as I love to hear these engines scream 😱
whats not to love about the k series? High flowing head from factory, holds 400whp just fine on an unopened motor, goes quick in NA or turbocharged applications.
Is your engine still running?
@@mrniceguy7168with proper tuning on a k20, upto 500hp, even boosted, its lifetime won't be decreased from stock. Bad tuning and it's done in the first dyno run. You have to make absolutely insane power to start worrying about actually bending rods or something due to too much torque. It's almost always detonation that kills things, which tuning. Of course more power means more cylinder pressure means more chance of det. Take det out of the equation and I'd bet a k20 could do 800hp and last as long as stock..but unfortunately det is always part of the equation.
@@forbiddenera are there any examples of high mileage high horsepower K engines? I’m dubious that a high horsepower K engine can go over 200k miles like most other Honda engines can easily do
@@mrniceguy7168 I'm sure there is lots. K is better than B, and I've had several B's run for ages at 350hp which were all engines with at least 250,000km on them and the only time one has died was from detonation
Has any one noticed how much the k20c engine cover looks like a honda generator. Reminds me of an ex2000. Lol
cos it generates so much powa HAHAHA
Us honda guys arent use to torque so just give us time
😆
robert hildebrand funny dude 👶
9:45 wow thanks for your wealth of knowledge on these engines. I've been interested in a K20 swap for my car and I didn't realize the engine was much smaller. TIL thanks man
So I'm an Evo 9 guy, usually bash on some of the shittier Hondas but man do I love the K20A and respect K20A turbo charged, those engines are great.
Evos are great when they aren't broke.
How many axles have you blown thru?
@@smokepeddler I'm on stock axles tranny, transfer, diff, turbo and internals and I'm pushing 420whp. As long as you slip the clutch instead of dumping it you won't break until after 550-600whp.
JDM FD2 Type R had the last and best K20a motor of them all
It gets better, look up the mugen type rr. They made it more powerful.
The best looking Civic that Honda used the K20A in was the EP3 Type-R, I really dislike the look of the Civic these days.
Jdm dc5 217hp is the bomb.lol only better is the fd2 k20a only because rrc mani
Is it much different than the K20A in the JDM DC5 Type-R?
@@TheDalitis8 yes, the fd2r motor is about 5hp more
There’s a Honda specialist who’s worked on K20as for years... they advise that with a rebore, uprated internals etc it will be good for 1000 BHP
so basically like a lot of engines then
I have a 90 hatch with a B16 and next to it is a 18 Civic Si. I love them both.
Congrats on the hatch. I just hope you paint the bumpers like the '91.
The K20C guys will soon get to share some of the same problems as us ford ecoboost guys have. The integrated manifold prevents us from going over 600hp and creates a ton of backpressure on the exhaust side. Its really a shame because the closed deck ecboost blocks are pretty stout but we cant do shit about the head. If i was building a honda i would definitely go with the k24 or k20a
The c2 is naturally aspirated
The VTEC is on the exhaust side to aid with getting exhaust gasses out
@A4ANT its still a big restriction, thats why the best honda engine is still the k24a2 from the tlx/tsx.
Three years after that comment, it turns out to be complete nonsense
@jachpriboy8989 retarded honda fanboi, show me a past 600whp civic type r using the k20c? Stoo being a fanboi and accept the fact kid, thats why people go for the k20's without the integrated manifold. I cant stand wanna be honda fantards like you.2
The K20C1 is good, but I still prefer the K20A from FD2R
Bottom line, one engine was designed for a turbo and the other one was not. In my opinion, leave the K20C stock and enjoy it as it is. According to this guy, try to tune the type R too much and you'll bend the rods. At the end of the day, it's not worth it. Enjoy the car in its stock form and you'll get easily 200 to 300,000 mi with proper maintenance.
You know, "leave it alone" is not what tuners do, so the k20c will be the new exploding engine of car show exist burn outs.
@@rolandocrisostomo2003 lol Any engine can be tuned....all it takes is MONEY.
Do d16z6 next. That's the engine that I am currently building to handle 400+ HP. People don't give the single cam enough credit when it's actually a cost effective route.
I agree. Good luck with your build. D16s are great engines.
Watchu talkin bout... the single cams have been gettin clout for the last decade now man. Goto any honda specific show an ull see more D or F series single cam builds than u will B or H's nowadays.
if you want to build an unpopular Honda do an R series or the k20c2 (the non turbo ugly duckling)
R18a will kick its butt any day! In mpg :P
K20C doesnt sound as nice yeah, but I appreciate that Honda is putting in a car as good as the FK8
hopefully they shove a K20C4 or something detuned in the 11th gen Si haha
This video was EXACTLY what i was looking for. Thanks for making educational stuff
Thanks for the video @Dust Runners Automotive Journal.
The difference of these two engines are (K20A vs. K20C):
- high revving concept vs. down sizing concept
- EURO 3 emissions concept vs. EURO 6 emission concept
- high performance concept vs. emission driven performance concept
- modulare head setup vs. fixed
Out of that many details can be explained like the port design differences, the revving capability, tribological characteristics and so on. Rating them in one sentence is like comparing apples and bananas. It's not fair as they had different development goals.
For me the K20A, K20A2, K20Z1, K20Z3, K20Z4 are one of the best base engines for developing high performance engines out of it, no matter which induction concept: NA or FI. It comes with one of the best aftermarkets and the potential of these engines is still not released at full size.
Regarding the direction of engine development Honda take for the K20C, I don't agree with it is the right direction. The down sizing concept comes with a lot of disadvantages regarding sustainability in development, it's a completely certification cycle driven development (NEDC, WLTP), many engine concepts from the late 80'ies to 90'ies can compete with the real driving emissions of those engines regarding particles and NOx. It helped the car manufacturers to increase the chassis weight while keeping the dynamic level or even increase it. That's a total wrong way. Honda choose it too. I was so disappointing, despite I understand they wanted to compete in the I4-performance engine car market. For me the better direction is chosen by Toyota Dynamic Force or even more the Mazda SkyActive X engines are the way to go. IC engine'd cars have a hard time competing against that certification cycle preferred E-machined cars. Downsizing won't help to compete, it helps to shorten the era of the IC engines. Honda's engine strategy was really disappointing me, once they had the best and bravest engine engineering teams and strategy, now they are just average. What happens not being innovative, plans to fire employees: Daimler 30.000, VW 20.000, BMW ... and so on. The all missed to adjust their strategy right in time. Now the big kaboom can be seen all over here in Europe. Tesla teaches them all, a company with a few years of experience teaches companies with almost 100 years of experience where to go. No sorry, Honda missed that too. Honda failed to chose the right way and just went into business as usual. The first and expensive step into the wrong direction can be the first into a row of steps into a lower noise-signal-ratio regarding market awareness in future or when turning back into right direction at a lower EBIT.
I choose the K20C1 4my 2008 Honda Element SC daily driver because of the low end torque. I plan the elimination of steering hydraulics by upgrading 2a full EPS steering rack. My only concerns now are the adaptation of the unit as a direct bolt in, i.e. engine mounts, AC compressor, alternator &computer. I'm not worried about intercooler piping, turbo lubrication or cooling.
Any help here?
If I was a betting man, Id skip the new CTR and buy a Civic Sport and drop a turbo K20A. If someone isnt making mounting hardware for this retrofit, they should and keep me in mind for royalties...
K20A with forced induction >K20c anyday of the week.K20c has vtec only on exhaust cam and it has the same problem like the 9gen civic si K24Z7 and that is the integrated exhaust manifold in the head stock vs stock both are in different league but if talk about modified then K20A is simply a more performance oriented engine and the cylinder head of the K20A flows way better as compared to the K20c
It doesn't flow as well because of the direct injection. This swirls the air giving it more grunt down low and a cleaner burning fuel mix. Hondata ported a k20c head and it flowed just as well as older k series, but it kills the low end torque.
K20c1 is for the guy who wants a turbo Honda, but don't want to deal with the headache doing it yourself causes.
@@snakeballs8965 the exhaust maniflold is also integrated in the cylinder head it can never flow as good as a K20A even if ported.same is the problem with the 9gen civc si k24z7
I'm excited to see the future of the K20C1 and I think there is a lot of potential once it's as mature of a platform as the previous K series motors.
Interesting, I have a buddy who’s out of FL and he use to work on Hondas. Hell he had a turbo K in an RSX and is working on an MR2 K. I was asking him about the new CTR K or the Accord K and he said pretty much what you’re saying. He did said if he ever sees one in the junkyard he will yank the whole setup because he adores the chassis look.
The K20A got 36 mpg in my RSX-S during the daily highway commute. If I drive very economically with my K20C (FL5) I can barely get 32 on a good week. Yeah, I know, these aren't meant for economy but just thought I'd add it in. If I drive the Type R like I really want to, it will do mid 20s.
I'll go for k24 with k20 head turbo change ,my opinion.
Although the k20a2 that was used in the type s Rsx was the same engine used in the ep3 type r civic. It's not the same as the k20A used in the itr,the a has a higher redline,higher compression and 20 more hp
K20a from itr and ctr are the same only thing that changes is the exhaust and headers
EP3 did not have k20a2. It had 160hp base RSX motor. K20a3 I believe
The JDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A as the DC5 Integra Type R. The UKDM EP3 Type R used the same K20A2 that’s in the pre facelift RSX Type S. The US EP3 had a K20A3 which only made 160hp
kdavid123186able he said ep3 type r which did have the k20a2 and the usdm version only got 160hp
@@ogspmex9926 u stoopid
bottom line...for the price you pay for the k20c you could just spend same amount of money on k20a or even k24v and get better results.
you are wrong there look more into the k20c i havea k20c2 motor and it would cost me more to get a k24a/k20a to the same power with the stock k20c1 motor you can get it to 450hp safely with same internals k20/k24 you have to change everthing out plus sleeve it . k20c1 you dont need to sleeve it also the k20c4 already comes sleeved i for my k20c2 for free reason i am trying to build it up and it only has 17k miles on it people like you talk but dont know cars good luck
@@beargang8853 dude do you have a base Civic LX? Those are the only cars i know of with the K20C2 and I completely agree with you. People sleep on it because it only makes 158hp stock, but it's just a type R engine without the head, turbo, or internals. I like the engine so much more than the shitty 1.5t they've been putting in everything.
@@beargang8853 Wrong, have you looked up what the older k20/24s can handle? it shits out 450 daily on a unopened engine.
@@beargang8853 you are wrong.the k20/k24 can easy handle 500 hp. People are boosting even 600 hp stock ones just changing head bolts.
@Arthur Wall all that torque breaking rods or spinning tyres coz its a FWD. By the way k24 makes torque on boost. Mine is making 400 lb and 511 hp on 15 psi.stock k24a2.
A k20 will make near 350 lb torque on 15 psi depending upon the turbo size.but still its enough.and wow that 8600 rev limits ..
As long as you keep the torque low on the k20a k20a2 you can push 400bhp on a stock engine and still be reliable the con rods are the weak point on the k20a
Nah gearbox is the weak link in a k20a
One of the most knowledgeable guy here on youtube. Thanks sir for such detailed engine comparisons. Also could you make a video on the L15A7?
I love my 8th gen civic si K20Z3
More than my RSX Type S K20A
It just feels better and the seats are more comfortable, but i like the look of the rsx more.
the 10th gen civic are great i had one for a short time till someon rear eneded me
@Bryce Czirr thats odd i fill the 4 door 8th gen is ugly the 10th gen is sexy 4 door the 2 door 8 gen is really nice though
Le. Farquad AGREED
K20A Rspec is better
Whoa the errors... K20A3 base model only does the fancy valve stepping on the Intake, it constantly works the both exhaust valves. K20A/A2/Z1 or the Type S/R engines, gets variable timing and lift on both sides. It's why the A3 will out pull the A2 until the A2 hits VTEC. It's why I prefer the A3 engine as well.
A3: 141ft/lb 4000RPM
A2: 142ft/lb 6000RPM
Z1: 143ft/lb 6200RPM
It's all about the application. With small bore machines, you have to not only know how you want to use the car, but understand where you want to be a year or two down the road, when you've saved up more money and can make the car a full race vehicle or just a stoplight sleeper with power to terrorize the neighborhood with. The two applications might seem similar, but you couldn't be more wrong.
when you said k20c is way better because of the flat curve powerband which is absolutely wrong. the reason why it need low end toque because the fact that its not n/a like the k20a. if the k20a were build with the same low end power it wouldnt be able to get as high as hp as it can get. so yes, its a completely different engine because of its characteristic.
k20c can handle alot more hp than the K20a stock the k20c4 is the same as the k20c2 but they beefed up internals even has cast iron sleeves but only offer in japan i have a k20c2 motor and trann i plan on swaping in my 1997 Prelude already have a fab guy ready to help me get it in there than once it fits ill clean up the car more and mostly buy a 2nd motor to beef up while. i want to send it to 4pison to beef up the 2nd motor i used to want to have k24 but than when i started doing my reserach k20c is way better
The k20c is not better than the k20a. Honda gimmped it. Please explain how you figure it is.
*with boost
K20a: rev happy
K20c: low growning sound
Neither motor is better than each other they have their required application. Also there are a lot of folks in the past 20 years that have been asking for a fully stock turbo Civic and here you go you got it for all of you that wanted that out of the showroom
I like that there is captions. Thanks man :)
K20a is better in every way. Great video by the way!
The k20A came in the jdm dc5 type r only. The Rsx had the k20a2 and the si had the k20a3.
Ep3 type r is k20A2
Only FD2R came in K20A
@@eddiedick9886 In the UK the EP3 has the A2. In Japan, its the high compression K20A.
Touche! My point was simply If there is going to be a comparison on the k20c and "k20A" let's hear it,but this comparison was between the k20c and k20A2 and A3 not the "A"
JDM CL7 Euro R aswell
So put a turbo on a K20A or K20A2 drop the compression by changing the pistons or getting a thicker head gasket and you have a more reliable engine than the K20C and a fraction of the cost of buying a car with the K20C in it. Sounds logical right, or am I missing something? Honestly am I missing something in my logic, please correct me if I am wrong.
Please do another video on comparison of the k24a and the k24w/k24v7 earth dreams motor that's found in the newer ilx and accords.
Does anyone remember The Pontiac GTP 3.6L Supercharged V6 from back in the day? It was really easy to get power out of but Chevy/Grand Am of course fucked it up by making its transmission only able to hold just barely more power than what it made before it turned into a grenade. Why would Chevy/Grand Am do something like that to The Grand Am GTP if they knew how easy it was to modify and make more power? Okay so bare with me...Why would Honda design a turbo engine that couldn't stand at least 100-200 more torque knowing that turbo engines(Honda or otherwise)are probably the most modified cars in the entire world besides V8's? (I'm not getting into that discussion what's modified more turbo'd engines or V8's that's besides the point). Well the first aftermarket company to make bullet proof con rods, pistons, and successful modified heads for the K20C will make a pretty penny. I see the K20C as the engine as the last petrol engine for Honda until it goes fully electric and Petrol Heads that's much sooner than you want to realize. Hey just think, won't it be fun learning a new craft on how to modify an electric car?
If anyone wants to respond I'd love to hear it. I ask for your opinions not arguments b/c I think arguments are a waste of time. If I have been mistaken about my anything I've said let me know(well besides that EV's are the wave of the future)and show me the info so I can learn.
K20a2/z1/z3 can survive 500whp daily driven and be fine. The k20c can not. Just saying. The k20c was ment to be a track midrange car while the k20a/z are made to be a all around engine.
Awesome video.thanks.im bias but k20a with turbo way better than k20c.love my k20a in my base model 97ek civic.na and stock it's as quick if not quicker than a fk8
I want a K20A swap for my '02 Type S so bad. Do I/H/E/Kpro and it would be perfect. Can't beat that naturally aspirated VTEC pop.
so right on........i love my 2001, S2K
@@vallasjo8003 Nice man, my Dad owns an '05 S2000. Doesn't exactly have that 9K RPM goodness, but its RWD and a blast to drive.
I just finished a jdm k20A swap in my mr2 spyder,bring on the fk8 :)
Pretty sick my dude! Although personally, I would've dropped a 2ZZ into the spyder, but whatevs. Btw, did you just recently buy an FK8?
Not I... Although I would love to have 1.
i like the idea of the newer k20c stock or lightly modded for daily use; the k20a heavily modded for race application and big power. after seeing that accord wagon w the k20c in it, all i can think about is the k20c in my 99crv awd w that low end torque.
In the uk we got the type R ep3 that sold 36,000 units plus next gen fn2 type R that sold a bunch aswell this meant we got hi pro version unlike in the US where you got the family car k20 in accords and typeS integra which is a completely different format.
One thing i know all this talk about the different mechanics of different engines is
all good and well and yes most do what they do well but what is never mentioned
what is needed to make it all happen is the ecu, modding engines to the point of hp
worth having requires ecu mods if not total replacement and that's when you need deep
pockets. Tuning modern engines is a bottomless pit, personally old school price, ease of maintenance, and no uni degree required so it doesn't go BANG on start up.
Feel free to change my mind.
I have a k20c2 im planing to put in my Honda Prelude than once i get it in there ill be buying a 2nd lude and get the k20c1 or c4
For those Honda cars that have a four sylender engine and have a cvt transmission especially the cvt transmission cause those need changing the fluid more often
The K20C2 is naturally aspirated. So the difference between the letters isn't because of aspiration. If it is, then I'd like someone to explain the lettering and numbering system so that the logic fits, but so far from what I've figured out, the C is either a newer or different market than the A, and the numbers after indicate combinations of VTEC and turbocharging.
The main thing that i don t like about the new k20 is how plasticky some parts for it are. My k24a3 is 20 years old.Changed some gaskets and seals once and that s about it.Not one single drop of oil,not one.Aluminium for valve cover and cast iron for the intake are much better materials than fing plastic.Just look at that skunk intake how sturdy and good it looks on that k20A.
K20c is not Honda , k20c was designed and developed in Honda America not the original Honda japan! I was a fan of Honda but no longer because Honda moved from being a Japanese to Americanised .
K20a is better. And PFI Brent has tuned a stock k20a bottom end on boost to make 500hp to the wheels.
Facepalm
I don’t like this hotwheels looking car. Bring back Integra!
Ik its so ugly💯
azrul nizam you should see the rally car they made out new civic type r
I have an 8th gen si. Love the high rev. Also i was under the impression i have a K20z3. Either way. I just like hondas.
Why do I hear about stock K20A type R engines pushing 280, but never find any statistics about it?
Great review indeed what’s the buzz like pros/cons about the new 2020 Pilot engine anyone??
Do a comparison on Accord k20 and Civic type R k20
K 20 Z 1 Running 28 lbs boost, is all you need, that direct injection does not cut it, way too much complication, size too big. Much harder Mod, and not sure if it can take it. Sleeve a K 20 (A) (A2) (Z) etc, Forged internals, crank up the boost, and you have Torque and HP.
I just wanted to know if the k20c was similar to the early Gen k series. And which is better in terms of reliability
Are the mounts in the same spots? Can you swap a k20c into car that has a k20a?
I’ve beeen trying to figure this out for a minute. I have a k20c I’m putting into a Mini Cooper. I want to know if I can use a subframe swap kit for a k20a
I liked this video it was very educational between the 2 engines.
I wanna try getting my hands on a k20c and drop it in my ep3 anything is possable right
Its a crate engine. Totaly possible.
Just K24 and boost it. Way less fuckin' around and way less money.
@@RevoltingSnakeman99 or just boost the k20a2, less torque = more grip + cheaper
I think the engine block is also different, especially thin water jacket between cylinders at k20c
Before I even watch doesn't the k20c1 only have VTEC on the exhaust cam? And the K20a has VTEC on the exhaust and intake cams. Am I right or wrong if this guy doesn't explain it? I just got into Hondas a few years ago when I found PFI so I don't know Jack about this stuff but I'm learning. And I'm testing my memory skills also.
Basically the k20a is a great N/A powerhouse and k20c is a built turbo engine made for boosting, right?
Do they bother with different internal components between the NA K20C (used in Civic Sport in the US) and Turbo versions?
If so, the internals in the NA engine must last forever in stock form.
K24 in my opinion the better engine, bored to a 2.7L, 12.5 compression on pump gas, NA of course
Dust Runner. Do you know how to get a hp vs altitude graph for the turbo? The NA will loose about 3% per 1000ft. As you know factory hp are measured of adjusted to sea level and Std temp. Just wondering
generally the honda's progress = F1's progress
What do you have to say about the Toyota ZR engine series? Please do something on this it's so widely distributed around the world and the content would surely make for a lot of views.
I have civic FD 2007, wat do u think the best k20A or k20c? Who is faster? Ty sir
I have had many civics in my life but I love my FK8. However I miss my 99 EM1 with a B16B. The K20C is more practical because of low torque but I do miss that high rev sound of the old Bseries. I liked my 13 FB6 K24 flet like a good balance.
just ride a motorcycle. Even higher redline and the sound is insane
No offense but why would you spend the money for a B16B to swap into an EM1 that already had a B16A* that you could just buy cams and springs for to equal the power?
Is the K24 engine with K20 head also possible with the K20C? If so is the K20C head a better solution if you whant to Turbocharge the engine?
Make a vid about the NA K20C2!!
6500-7000 shift points are lame, though. Why not turbocharge AND rev high? Why does nothing OEM offer that?
HDR Engine Development my guess is that emission regulations have made it difficult for manufacturers and customers to reach that sweet spot
Cylinder pressure would become to high and the longevity and reliable of the engine would decline.
high revving turbo engines aren't very reliable and yeah emissions legislation comes into play
Honda is going the route of boost and torque over high reving n/a horsepower because their chassis have become bigger and heavier like other manufacturers. Civic type R is well over 3 thousand pounds while the original ek9 was around 2300 lbs. This increase in size and weight has resulted in more power needed. The reason everyone is swapping ks into their eks, egs, and crx or intregras are because the older lighter chassis are pure Honda at heart. Minimalist.
What degree vtc gear does the k20a use????
Which K20A/Z variant had a forged crank? The hi-po K20A2 and Z1 didnt
K20A is more reliable, there’s no oil dilution! So Honda should have just added a turbo to k20A for the win!! That’s what I have in my Civic sport sedan, I love that car!!
Where does the k20Z3 come in to play
FTW B series for LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ls/Vtec
Thank you,I'll be following
We see now k20 stock block with only springs and retainers boosted holding 700+ no problems, my neighbor has one 625 hp beating it now for a year and 2 months. K20A the perfect engine so far honda has built.
Carlos Carlitos naw cuhz, My F20 is best act like you kno pimp
I want to swap a k20a in my fk8
It's a downgrade then
Sketchy Pigeon it will be fun
cant wait until FC3s are cheap so we can K24 swap them
@@sketchypigeon1070 I disagree somewhat. No VTEC on the intake cams is seriously disappointing. Even Like Wilson from 4Piston said it. This is seems to have been engineered with a disregard for tuners. And if you follow the Hasport k20c1 videos were the they try to fit the new engine into older chassis, you will find it almost impossible to fit in. Why?
There are many types of K20A, but the fastest one is
Only k20a (Rspec)
I would take k20A engine minor tune will be ahead of time vs every1 else.then they sound better.
I have both and love them both. But for everyday driving...power is more available on the turbo car...unless I rev the heck out of the non-turbo. …reliability of the turbo...well...yet to find out....
K20 is great, no doubt. But shout out to the VW/Audi EA888 gen 3. Stock bottom end holding 500ft/lbs reliably.
I love all motor Hondas I'm currently building 84mm sleeved all motor b20v with ITB's
I don’t get the k series. Which k20 or K24 performance series is the best?
E.g is it the k20a? K20a2? K20Z1? K24a2? K24a3?
Which one is the best?
K20A Rspec