"You do not get a budget 928, only a budget for a 928...!" Love this car, even with it's running costs. I have the biggest smile after driving it. :-) 1989 928S4
buy your own parts and do your own work its easy unless your a trailer queen amd for a throaty sound go a globmaster delta seris.oh parts zims and automotion...finally your electrical gremlins before you get all those relays..clean each of the ground points two under hood believe three under dash and one inside hatch and just above rear lights
@@miguelcastaneda7236 Depends on where you live my friend. Our currency in South Africa runs at R15/$ so parts here are very expensive, as non OEM parts are unheard of. All parts are imported and subject to more taxes, so it gets difficult to keep the car in original condition. Do what I can myself, but for some jobs you need the experienced guys. Cheers! 😄
@@DROLTMANN my '88 S4 is one of the most reliable and trouble free cars I've ever owned,the build quality is exceptional,it's just a car I can't complain about!
I own a 1983 black on black rare 5 speed 928S with BBS wheels. I also own a 1999 996 cabriolet. One is like a heavy weight boxer and the other like a ballet dancer . The 928 is the perfect GT car. Originally underpowered I supercharged it with a stage 1 kit from 928 Motorsport in Wisconsin. It does not require an intercooler , it is set at 8 psi and makes a huge difference in performance. it handles well with the passive rear wheel steering but it is definitely a man's car. I also replaced the alternator with an upgraded one also from 928 Motorsport as the original is not up to the job. I keep it garaged so the interior leather is in great condition. This car has great road presence and has won trophies at car shows. The fact that this model does not have an interference engine gives me some peace of mind. The maintenance costs have been quite reasonable for a car of this caliber.
I've loved the Porsche 928 from the moment I first saw one. It's my dream car. The 928 really doesn't get the love and respect it deserves. I hope to own one some day. Thank you.
It is nice to hear an adult talking about the car they love. I was looking at used Corvettes, took a long journey in a friend's, and I realized I really want a 928...
Excellent review. You show a high degree of understanding and have a great delivery. Mine's a minervablau '85 5-speed. I've had it over 20 years and it's never been a daily driver. Now with 93,000 miles I continue to enjoy it over the Grand Mesa on the Western Slope of Colorado. I run all-season high perfomance Michelin tires on it. I have a little toe-out wear but nothing serious especially after getting the OEM Sachs shocks replaced. One thing I seldom see in other respondent's remarks is the unique feature of the rear suspension - meaning the Weissach axle. The way it changes geometry when lifting in "hot" corners is especially reassuring and restores my confidence each time I overdo things. Happy trails and do keep the revs up, pardner
I've had an 89 928 S4 for 24 years. It's the only car I've had that has a soul. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Nice review that just stumbled on. You make a great number of very valid points.
I owned a 1982 928S w/5spd manual that was hard to start and easy to stall when releasing the clutch from a stop. A Porsche dealership technician with great diagnostic skills and a lot of patience found the problem. It was a defective ignition module. The prevailing opinion is that the modules either work or fail completely. On my car, it was very voltage sensitive. When the system voltage dropped just a little such as when the starter motor is running or the rpm drops by letting the clutch out too abruptly; the spark plugs didn't fire and the car either failed to start or would stall too easily. Replacing that module transformed the car completely. It started first attempt every time and pulled from a stop like a tractor! I was the second owner and was given the service records for the car. The first owner went through a lot of grief attempting to get the car to run properly. I believe he would not have sold the car as early as he did if he had had the good fortune of running into the right Porsche technician.
Recently picked up an 83. Very excited to start working on it. So much good information out there. And yeah, seats are amazing. More comfortable than both modern cars in my driveway. Mind boggling actually.
Nice review. I’ve had three 928‘s two five speeds and an S4. Absolutely love them. I’ve moved onto BMW, if Porsche ever built a new 928, I’d definitely change back. I owned a 1986 911 widebody Cabriolet, but never felt comfortable and was wary of their oversteer. As for 928 reliability, never had any problems whatsoever. However I’d always religiously maintained them.
@@billystutz55 hmm in answer to your question. Someone once described the personality of manual 928‘s was a bit like a, “Thug in a Suit” and that’s the best way to describe them. As for preference, I was fortunate enough to own both a 5peed and an S4 auto at the same time. So depending on your driving mood you had a choice. They’re both totally awesome cars, but if I had to pick only one, it’d most likely be the S4 auto, simply because it was so bloody fast. LoL I really miss 928 ownership and I will likely get another one. But in saying that I also love my BMWZ4, because it does one thing the 928’s couldn’t, (go topless)
@@Brutaga Thanks, thats good info. My other cars are manual, so maybe I'll mix it up and get the auto if I end up pulling the trigger on one. Thanks again dude. Z4, I hear they are fun cars
THE most important tip is finding a competent 928 mechanic. Mr Merlin aka Stan K in Glenside, PA is incredibly well- versed in 928s. I highly recommend him.
What's the business name of his garage? I certainly have huge respect for him in the rennlist forum community but didn't know he was an option as a mechanic, too.
A great and informative video. Beautiful car but you want to learn how to troubleshoot auto electrical issues; I can’t recommend the 928 enough. I miss mine but not the uncertainty when relying on it as a DD. Always start with the grounds is my advice on this one and use only good quality relays, dielectric grease, & braided heat shielding on the wiring affected by heat. You’ll meet the best, most helpful people in the 928 community btw.
Same with the 944 love rennlist what a great board, parts are the same some parts are cheaper then others and great third party suppliers! BTW the stem shifter looks cool.
Forgot to add, every wire behind the lovely fuse / relay panel is all the same color gray, and they're NOT LABELED. So be careful when removing it to clean all those connections.
One thing I've noticed being around 928's for nearly 20 years... For some reason - And I don't know why - The US cars always seem to have had a very hard life! UK and ROW cars (especially Japanese) seem to survive far better....
Things are more disposable in the US. Cars cost less to begin with considering taxes on new cars. I'm sure there are plenty of absolute perfectionist caretakers of Porsche 928's in the U.S. Those people probably aren't selling in the first place. Then there's a perceived difficulty in maintaining a 928, which probably prevents some from doing the work themselves, which sometimes prevents the work getting done at all. No real laws most places that require inspections other than for emissions.
Continues to blow my mind how clean the oil stays. My Cayman S oil darkens much quicker but I may have something internal going on there (rings, etc) but it runs really well and it is an 07 so I'm not sweating the IMS.
Great Video thank you. Working in the industry, I have been lucky enough to own many 928's from early cars up to the very late cars and have an S4 at present. I always loved the design, which in my opinion improved down the line. Where for me the 928 falls short is the drive, it just doesn't know what its suppose to be, is it a GT ? is it a sports car ? The steering is over heavy with poor feel, the throttle is numb and heavy again with little feel. The auto box is ok, though the car feels more natural with a manual box, but the pedal arrangement on the manual gearbox cars is pitiful. Grip and handling are both very good for a car of this size. I agree with your comments on the interior and wiring both very average. Most 928's that come to me have trim and electrical issues. You either love them or hate them !
My father-in-law had a '80s (can't remember the exact year) grey market 928 with a manual transmission. He sold it to his brother and then I don't know what happened to the car. Wish I'd bought it.
Very cool thorough discussion of these fascinating machines - I've always admired the "shark" but been kinda scared to own one due to the maintenance complexity and parts access.
@@mrjones100 I owned an automatic 1987 Porsche 928, back in 1993. LOL! Lots of numbers. But yes, these vehicles maintenance prices are outrages. Back in 1993 to replace the brake pads was $700.00 😢
@@mrjones100 auto...I wish it was a 5 speed...unicorns they are. Not driving them is the worst thing ever. make sure intake plenum is done and check all fuses. If auto, check the flexplate to see if its in tolerance...if not you will be prone to TBF (Thrust Bearing Failure). Visit DwaynesGarage as a tutorial and go to Rennlist on the 928 forum
I'm looking at getting an 1984 928 from a customer that's been sitting outside for 10 years. What's your thoughts on if I should get it or not and what would you pay for it 🤔
Tks Mark, based on BaT here in the US and the really low production volume (61,000) the spike is imminent. The market is starting to realize that Porsche made cars other than the 911 that were also great. Big shadow to get out from under, but if the 944 and 928 were made by any other company methinks the values would be up by now.
@@mrjones100 hi you being a porsche guy what do u think of the panamera range especially the diesel . my car mates not keen I do like the 4.8 s the DNA is inherited from 928 game changer from snowy england
@@markeverts336 Panamaras are easily the most comfortable cars I've ridden in, but I haven't driven one personally. From my perspective the 928 is a small GT car in a way that the Panamara sedans/saloons are not. Consider the 928 more like the BMW 6 or 8 series and the Panamara as the 7 series. And if you are in snowy UK why not look at the Panamara 4 variants? As for diesel or not, never owned one personally so my opinion isn't formed empirically but I'd pass on them due to weight, smell, and the lack of tuning options.
regarding your comments about wheels are you sure your rear wheels are correct? My S4 has the same style wheel but the rear wheels are wider than the front wheels, and the rear tyres are different size to the front also.
Really appreciate your observations owning yours. I am a pretty mechanical DIY Porsche Mechanic with previous air-cooled cars and a current 09' C4S. I am checking out a 86.5 5spd this week. It's been a dream of mine owning one for years. You in the PNW by chance? Cheers.
Big fan of the C4S! Not on the West Coast Brian...'near Annapolis. It would be very interesting to try the 5 speed as I am really impressed with the V8 in these cars, especially the top end, and I love 3 pedal cars. Good luck with the 86.5!
It drives heavy when driven slow. As you speed up, it just flies with no squeeling tires or noises. It just..... goes fast, and unlike a 911, not backwards into a tree. Oh, and it's not a 'front engine'. The engine is between the front and rear axles, giving it perfect 50/50 weight balance. It's a mid engine, just the same as car with the engine behind the driver but in front of the rear axles.
Excellent video. Did you also test-drive a 5 speed? I'm looking at auto and manual S4s now - have driven the auto and will the 5 sp soon. Loved the MB-sourced box.
Never did, but agonized over the choice. The tipping point was a conversation with a guy at a cars and coffee in Annapolis, Maryland who has had several 928s. He told me that the car is better suited to the automatic. And frankly I love the MB 4-speed auto transmission. Also, the manuals seem to be fussy and generally imprecise, but that's just what I read.
The manuals can be made of glass, actually but once sorted I think the s4 is better suited to the manual. At just over 3400 pounds and just over 320 hp it’s a good fit. I know people say the auto is okay but…the manual is more fun for a spirited drive. Because you don’t need to kick down to fourth to pass like in a 944 it’s not as big of a gap, but heel toeing coming out of turns in a 928 is a blast and something bystanders aren’t used to seeing. It’s fun to twitch the rear on a good turn. But unlike other Porsches where the manuals can be cheaper to maintain here they aren’t, transaxle removal, expensive clutch kits and worn gearing can cause headaches. This comes down to the driver.
Got me a black '82 5-speed. Fun to drive, but too many gremlins. Probably chase those for the next 5 years, but vac lines & fuse/relay advice is great.
Nice and pretty clean looking car although the steering wheel, shifter and metal strip makes it look „cheap“. Rear wheel; just update with two OEM good used 8“x16“ S4 rear and 245/45-16, some 20mm wheel spacers each side. Makes a big difference
OEM wheel is very badly frayed and had a poorly executed refurb attempted at some point that will require significant work by a pro upholstery shop. The OEM AT shifter was cracked open. Sun damage and warpage to the glove box top edge was so pronounced that is had damaged the door (which i intend to remove and build back up before recovering it in marine vinyl). Doing the best I can right now Garage928 to create a functional setup while continuing other work on a car that was unloved by POs. I didn't realize the S4 manhole cover rims were larger. The current gap makes me nuts. The cars on your YT channel are gorgeous.
@@mrjones100 thank you and look at the Blue 86,5 again on my yt vid. You see the 8“ rear. I always have plenty off good used parts for the 928 available. Email: 928partsonly@gmail.com, best Rich
Just looked again for an OEM...$400 at pelicanparts.com. My plan is to either find one to refurb or rebuild the broken one I have from the PO. It's broken in the usual spot (cracked apart at the base). Even at half that cost there's other priorities.
Mmm if your steering is heavy your rack is going or you need to check the struts and ball joints. Later 928s have easy steering if well maintained. They handle well because they are actually light and solid. When well tuned suspension wise they will toss like a nineties five series. Secret to comfort is original seats. It’s hard to remake them well. Original seats have a look you can’t replicate. 928s stand out no doubt, and people seem to like the early ones for the Risky Business look or the later ones for the spoilers. Michelin’s are key. Those are anodized gullideckel 16 inch forged wheels and if not the prettiest, they are light. Oil clean/ stock air filters and make sure they are clean with no leaks. Interior items are MUCH more expensive than one might think, to the point some would rather have a great interior and middling mechanics! You wouldn’t think thus would work but interior restoration is at least $4k and you need an expert. Sachs clutch kit late: $895. Manual Third gear synchro: $212. It’s funny how the weirdest parts will trip you up.
Asking for an average, a median, how much do you guys spend per annum in maintenance? Don't count the standard stuff; tires, oil changes, battery; how much do you think you spend per year keeping your car in shape? My current estimate is around $5k a year. But, my car, while not in rough shape, had some maintenance that had not been done in a few years.
Since I am only a year and some months into my first 928 there is not enough historical data for me to comment with authority on normal annual spend. I've been replacing lots of things stem-to-stern that were not maintained in my car by the previous owners. Google "annual maintenance costs porsche 928 rennlist" and see what the forum shows. Don't bother trying to search within the forum search engine (it is pretty poor, so use google and add rennlist to your string).
$5k a year is way too high...sounds like you got a rough one..after owning multiple 928s over 20 years... a well sorted one should only cost $1k-$2k a year and that typically includes oil changes, etc...
I got my 1986 Porsche 928 5 speed back in 1999 had no idea the passengers side has a hatch release knob. lol. Actually the power hatch wasn't working because of the missing tiny plastic bushing insert on the lever so I tied 3 zip ties around the lever hole to attach the ball joint. My odometer stopped working in 2004 @164k miles. My A/C has leak and needs one ABS wheel speed sensor.
5 speed! I would love to try the stick models. My clutch fan makes so much wind noise that I sometimes think I am pushing the motor higher in the rev range than is happening in the moment. I wonder if you hear it too as you're rev'ing up...I really need to get an electric kit from 928srus.
@@mrjones100 No I don't hear the fan clutch but I did fill it with silicon diff oil #1000 from the RC hobby shop about 4-5 years ago. My next project is porken tensioner and timing belt or an EV motor. Don't tell anyone but my contitech timing belt is 18 years old last replaced in 2003 but has not reached 60K miles yet. I live in San Diego average temp 75 and car is garaged.
The rear hatch insert is $24 und takes you less than 30 seconds to install. I have always plenty off good used parts available. Just send me a list and I will check
Thanks Firehorse...something about the manhole cover rims that grabs me...plus nothing out there looks remotely like them. Heading to Katie's Cars and Coffee in Great Falls, Virginia tomorrow.
4 books anyone 928 enthusiast should check out: Porsche 928: Essential Buyers Guide by David Hemmings Porsche 928 by Brian Long Porsche 928 1977 - 1995 Gold Portfolio (Brooklands books) Porsche 928 Takes On The Competition (Brooklands books)
@@mrjones100 Do you have any of these books? I've got them and the first one (by David Hemmings) would be the best for knowing some more about weakness to watch out for on 928s. You said 1986 and a half. I've read that means it has factory bigger brakes and suspension upgrade, and these upgrades were also put on the new 1987 S4 cars. I like how you're doing the do it yourself fix up as a driver's car and not stashing it away like concours cars.
Great video, possibly my favourite car design ever. I live in a place where fuel is not cheap but have been thinking of doing a rebuild with a mechanic friend to save one of these. That 1970s 8 cylinder is not very attractive to me. What engine swaps and actual improvements have you seen out there that impress you as worthy? Is there an electrical kit that works better? Is there a reason to put a non-runner back to stock rather than go with upgrades? I used to have a 1989 944t and miss the transaxle feeling, might alternatively look at 968s.
I had a 1980 edition 928 for 12 years. It was a delightful car overall. The key design failure issues I experienced were the brakes required a lot of foot force at low speed. It was terrible design to the point of incompetence. At higher speed they were fine. I tried to get a fix but didn’t find one. The AC was under powered for the car, which was a surprise. The car sits too low practical use on many curbs and driveways. You have to be very, very careful when parking next to a curb at the front or side of the car and when pulling in to or out of driveways. Also badly pot holed roads could cause problems. While the low slung stance looks fabulous, it caused a lot of problems over the years. The 3 speed transmission was dismal. The autobox was made by MB and started in 2nd gear, which is typical for MB, but not great for a sports car. Manual shifting was okay. In later models years they used a different transmission. The single biggest design failure for the Porsche was the relentless incompetence and arrogance of most Porsche mechanics. No matter how well the mechanic was rated, it was almost always the case that the car had to go back for a 2nd or 3rd repair and just about every time the car went back, the mechanic would blame the car for the mechanic’s shitty workmanship. Not surprisingly, most of the PCA rated mechanics I went to ultimately closed their doors a few years later. I think most Porsche mechanics at the time were only willing to get formal training on the air cooled models and hid their ineptitude behind a bogus pretense of BS. I moved on to MB cars after the 928. While MBs do have similar maintenance costs, they do not have the BS and failure related experience related to the mechanics that are or were part of the Porsche experience. With a MB, only rarely does work need to be done a 2nd time. Two words I could never use with a Porsche mechanic were “the best.” Typical terms for Porsche mechanics are “prima donna,” “arrogant and incompetent”, and “thieves.” Many Porsche mechanics took weeks to do half-assed work and then evaded responsibility when the problem wasn’t fixed, or a new problem came up after the fix. Hope that has changed by now but it appeared to be the design experience with about half a dozen dealer and inde mechanics I went to over the 12 years I had the 928. Wish that wasn’t the case as I’d still drive Porsches today if they had a competent repair services.
Exactly the same experience with a well rated indy near me! Bad experiences with both my 987 and the 928. One of the reasons why I have spent a lot of time doing things myself frankly. I totally agree that any assumption that an air cooled guru would know diddly about the clean sheet V8 GT cars is in the court of caveat emptor. I have found the 928S brakes and tyranny to be really good, surprisingly so in fact. The 86.5 has many S4 components and the 4 speed AT has been great, especially after adjusting the shift cable at the quadrant. Sounds like a lot of progress was made during the development years after your earlier 928. The MB cars in the 70s and 80s are so robust.
@@mrjones100 When I have time I do my own work and the 928 design made this mostly very doable. Often it is a better use of my time to let someone else do it. After 20 years even in the cool temps of northern Washington State, the rubber bits on my 2000 MB are nearly stiff as rock and leak so am putting in new gaskets and tubes for a sunroof. Of course, the original big sunroof gasket is no longer available and the factory replacement takes a tad of work and some RTV to get it right. My MB’s are from the ‘90’s and later. All are very reliable but anything over 20 years old has needs that go beyond typical maintenance. O rings and gaskets become hard and don’t do their jobs well, timing chain guards break, suspension parts fail due to age, vacuum lines need to be replaced due to age, parts that have been heat soaked just crumble, and on and on. a Porsche from this vintage would have the same issues as they have a lot of, if not the same parts, the same manufacturers of parts. I agree Porsche made major improvements on the 928S series. I have looked at and drove a few of them. This is definitely the way to go. I don’t know if the repair segment has improved but don’t expect a 928s to be affordable by most mere mortals if they rely on a shop.
Personally, no, but it depends on your resources and goal for the car. What you describe sounds like a $15k investment to get it back to a daily driver at least. For some that might be a starting point for a windows-out full body restoration. Just depends again on your intent. If it is a GTS or Club all bets change and yes I would buy it as a 'some day' car. Otherwise that sounds like hundreds of hours of work and bags of money.
this car was far ahead of anything of its era for breaking distance and i think it took corvette until early 2000's to match its 175 ft breaking distance from 70mph to 0
You are not the first to ask but nothing that fits that general description is in my parts collection from working on the car. And the last reference I read wasn't very detailed and seemed to debate whether all years had it. Do you have a part#?
i used to own a 1979 928 and it was great when it ran. i was in my early 20s and it was too much as a daily so i sold it and ever since i missed having a Porsche and a few years ago i bought a 06 Cayman S.
I own 2 1985 black 928s, I’ve replaced just about as much as you have. My 5 speed is fitted with the S4 1987 engine and transmission. I’m the mechanic for my Porsche as in my early years in the mid 80s, I was trained in high school and college. It’s been a learning experience like I’ve never would’ve believed. It’s a crazy car to say the least. Your good 👍🏽
Shifter cracked and damaged by PO and may not be salvageable and porsche replacements are >$400 with some popping up used for $300. If you can offer ideas with links for alternatives that are more affordable and align better to OEM look let me know. Open to suggestions LetMrAL1. Steering wheel is a tattered mess which was hastily covered with a bad aftermarket kit which is a refoaming, dyeing, and covering project for another day. I do like the OEM look, too, but I will probably thicken the foam a bit because the original is very thin and I have large hands.
Wonderful 928 you have there! The S3 engine looks wicked with the stretched intake compared to the S4 intake. Roadnoise can be limited by mounting Michelin Pilot Sport tyres. Maybe you can fit 245 wide S4 wheels. Windnoise is really something that belongs to the car, the 928 GTS has less windnoise due to the cupmirrors although they don't fit the style of the earlier 928 models i.o. Good luck!
When your LH ECU fails it will strand you on the spot without notice. I strongly advise you to have it rebuilt before it fails. Here in the UK we have a specialist Porsche 928 electronics company - www.jdsporsche.com . I personally recommend them after our LH failed in the middle of the Yorkshire moors stranding us. I took it in to John Speake at JDS in Cambridge, England, who turned it round very quickly at a sensible price. 1988 928s4 Black/black.
"You do not get a budget 928, only a budget for a 928...!" Love this car, even with it's running costs. I have the biggest smile after driving it. :-) 1989 928S4
buy your own parts and do your own work its easy unless your a trailer queen amd for a throaty sound go a globmaster delta seris.oh parts zims and automotion...finally your electrical gremlins before you get all those relays..clean each of the ground points two under hood believe three under dash and one inside hatch and just above rear lights
@@miguelcastaneda7236 Depends on where you live my friend. Our currency in South Africa runs at R15/$ so parts here are very expensive, as non OEM parts are unheard of. All parts are imported and subject to more taxes, so it gets difficult to keep the car in original condition.
Do what I can myself, but for some jobs you need the experienced guys. Cheers! 😄
@@DROLTMANN my '88 S4 is one of the most reliable and trouble free cars I've ever owned,the build quality is exceptional,it's just a car I can't complain about!
@@giannirocco7492 no problem with reliability, I agree, only maintenance and OEM parts that rock my wallet. :-)
@@DROLTMANN I perform most all the maintenance myself and the amount of parts required is actually minimal...
I own a 1983 black on black rare 5 speed 928S with BBS wheels. I also own a 1999 996 cabriolet. One is like a heavy weight boxer and the other like a ballet dancer . The 928 is the perfect GT car. Originally underpowered I supercharged it with a stage 1 kit from 928 Motorsport in Wisconsin. It does not require an intercooler , it is set at 8 psi and makes a huge difference in performance. it handles well with the passive rear wheel steering but it is definitely a man's car. I also replaced the alternator with an upgraded one also from 928 Motorsport as the original is not up to the job. I keep it garaged so the interior leather is in great condition. This car has great road presence and has won trophies at car shows. The fact that this model does not have an interference engine gives me some peace of mind. The maintenance costs have been quite reasonable for a car of this caliber.
I've loved the Porsche 928 from the moment I first saw one. It's my dream car. The 928 really doesn't get the love and respect it deserves. I hope to own one some day. Thank you.
They are wonderful cars to drive, and bristle with personality.
If I were you then I would try and scrape money everywhere and buy it, it will be worth a lot more in a decade.
What state are you in?
Holly shit that engine bay is immaculate for its age
It is nice to hear an adult talking about the car they love. I was looking at used Corvettes, took a long journey in a friend's, and I realized I really want a 928...
My dad had one just like this. (Different color) loved that car and miss it all the time!
Excellent review. You show a high degree of understanding and have a great delivery.
Mine's a minervablau '85 5-speed. I've had it over 20 years and it's never been a daily driver. Now with 93,000 miles I continue to enjoy it over the Grand Mesa on the Western Slope of Colorado. I run all-season high perfomance Michelin tires on it. I have a little toe-out wear but nothing serious especially after getting the OEM Sachs shocks replaced. One thing I seldom see in other respondent's remarks is the unique feature of the rear suspension - meaning the Weissach axle. The way it changes geometry when lifting in "hot" corners is especially reassuring and restores my confidence each time I overdo things. Happy trails and do keep the revs up, pardner
Hope to bring mine to Ouray once my house is built there next year.....
People hate the 928? Blasphemy! They are so great looking.
928 is the best Porsche ever produced.
I've had an 89 928 S4 for 24 years. It's the only car I've had that has a soul. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Nice review that just stumbled on. You make a great number of very valid points.
I really really hope to own any kind of 928, dream car
Ditto.
Great video 👍👍
I've owned my 928 for 11 years now and do all my own work.
Thanks! And there are truly few things harder to explain to people than what its like to drive a well sorted 928.
wow that is admirable
I owned a 1982 928S w/5spd manual that was hard to start and easy to stall when releasing the clutch from a stop. A Porsche dealership technician with great diagnostic skills and a lot of patience found the problem. It was a defective ignition module. The prevailing opinion is that the modules either work or fail completely. On my car, it was very voltage sensitive. When the system voltage dropped just a little such as when the starter motor is running or the rpm drops by letting the clutch out too abruptly; the spark plugs didn't fire and the car either failed to start or would stall too easily. Replacing that module transformed the car completely. It started first attempt every time and pulled from a stop like a tractor! I was the second owner and was given the service records for the car. The first owner went through a lot of grief attempting to get the car to run properly. I believe he would not have sold the car as early as he did if he had had the good fortune of running into the right Porsche technician.
This was a really informative video. Two thumbs wayyyyy up.
Thanks! I would love to do more, but notes like this keep me going.
You have been great throughout my 3 month experience with my 84. I appreciate it
Glad to get such nice feedback Jeffrey, thank you.
Recently picked up an 83. Very excited to start working on it. So much good information out there.
And yeah, seats are amazing. More comfortable than both modern cars in my driveway. Mind boggling actually.
Auto, stick? Color?
@@mrjones100 brown exterio (frowning on me), burgundy interior (yuck), 5-spd.
@@Lessenjr Well I agree about the burgundy interior...that is why I color changed mine.
Nice review. I’ve had three 928‘s two five speeds and an S4. Absolutely love them. I’ve moved onto BMW, if Porsche ever built a new 928, I’d definitely change back. I owned a 1986 911 widebody Cabriolet, but never felt comfortable and was wary of their oversteer. As for 928 reliability, never had any problems whatsoever. However I’d always religiously maintained them.
Did you like the 5 speeds or Automatic better?
@@billystutz55 hmm in answer to your question. Someone once described the personality of manual 928‘s was a bit like a, “Thug in a Suit” and that’s the best way to describe them. As for preference, I was fortunate enough to own both a 5peed and an S4 auto at the same time. So depending on your driving mood you had a choice. They’re both totally awesome cars, but if I had to pick only one, it’d most likely be the S4 auto, simply because it was so bloody fast. LoL I really miss 928 ownership and I will likely get another one. But in saying that I also love my BMWZ4, because it does one thing the 928’s couldn’t, (go topless)
@@Brutaga Thanks, thats good info. My other cars are manual, so maybe I'll mix it up and get the auto if I end up pulling the trigger on one. Thanks again dude. Z4, I hear they are fun cars
THE most important tip is finding a competent 928 mechanic. Mr Merlin aka Stan K in Glenside, PA is incredibly well- versed in 928s. I highly recommend him.
What's the business name of his garage? I certainly have huge respect for him in the rennlist forum community but didn't know he was an option as a mechanic, too.
I would recommend contacting him directly via PM on Rennlist. Not trying to be coy...that's just the best way to contact him.
I am in California 😢
A great and informative video. Beautiful car but you want to learn how to troubleshoot auto electrical issues; I can’t recommend the 928 enough. I miss mine but not the uncertainty when relying on it as a DD. Always start with the grounds is my advice on this one and use only good quality relays, dielectric grease, & braided heat shielding on the wiring affected by heat. You’ll meet the best, most helpful people in the 928 community btw.
great video, fair and well explained comments.
Great video with in depth information!
Good points you brought up in the video and something I'll be aware of with my 84!
Thanks for the feedback!
Same with the 944 love rennlist what a great board, parts are the same some parts are cheaper then others and great third party suppliers! BTW the stem shifter looks cool.
Forgot to add, every wire behind the lovely fuse / relay panel is all the same color gray, and they're NOT LABELED. So be careful when removing it to clean all those connections.
Great video, since I am currently looking for one. There are not that many out there in good condition for about $20K.
good condition u have to look for 35k and above dont touch the junk ones bec they will coast u tons yet still be junk
One thing I've noticed being around 928's for nearly 20 years... For some reason - And I don't know why - The US cars always seem to have had a very hard life! UK and ROW cars (especially Japanese) seem to survive far better....
Things are more disposable in the US. Cars cost less to begin with considering taxes on new cars. I'm sure there are plenty of absolute perfectionist caretakers of Porsche 928's in the U.S. Those people probably aren't selling in the first place. Then there's a perceived difficulty in maintaining a 928, which probably prevents some from doing the work themselves, which sometimes prevents the work getting done at all. No real laws most places that require inspections other than for emissions.
@@pgtmr2713 I do agree with you... Also in certain states the sun absolutely destroys the paint and interiors which doesn’t help...!
That's funny. I just checked the oil in my 944 today and noticed how clean it is after some miles!
Continues to blow my mind how clean the oil stays. My Cayman S oil darkens much quicker but I may have something internal going on there (rings, etc) but it runs really well and it is an 07 so I'm not sweating the IMS.
How are you liking the 944? Which flavor?
@@mrjones100 I love it! I have a playlist for it on my channel. Check it out.
@@mrjones100 i like my 944s and 928s4 love these cars
Great Video thank you. Working in the industry, I have been lucky enough to own many 928's from early cars up to the very late cars and have an S4 at present. I always loved the design, which in my opinion improved down the line. Where for me the 928 falls short is the drive, it just doesn't know what its suppose to be, is it a GT ? is it a sports car ? The steering is over heavy with poor feel, the throttle is numb and heavy again with little feel. The auto box is ok, though the car feels more natural with a manual box, but the pedal arrangement on the manual gearbox cars is pitiful. Grip and handling are both very good for a car of this size. I agree with your comments on the interior and wiring both very average. Most 928's that come to me have trim and electrical issues. You either love them or hate them !
My father-in-law had a '80s (can't remember the exact year) grey market 928 with a manual transmission. He sold it to his brother and then I don't know what happened to the car. Wish I'd bought it.
Very cool thorough discussion of these fascinating machines - I've always admired the "shark" but been kinda scared to own one due to the maintenance complexity and parts access.
If you're a car guy and can wrench a little you might enjoy one as much as I do. Every great ride with personality can be a cruel mistress at times.
@@mrjones100 I owned an automatic 1987 Porsche 928, back in 1993. LOL! Lots of numbers. But yes, these vehicles maintenance prices are outrages. Back in 1993 to replace the brake pads was $700.00 😢
This is an excellent review
Good video. A great traveling car. I love the Diamond Blue Metallic color...same color as my 88S4.
Auto or stick Edwin? Anything else you think of as your personal observations about owning one?
Excellent choice in 928s, the 32v
@@mrjones100 auto...I wish it was a 5 speed...unicorns they are. Not driving them is the worst thing ever. make sure intake plenum is done and check all fuses. If auto, check the flexplate to see if its in tolerance...if not you will be prone to TBF (Thrust Bearing Failure). Visit DwaynesGarage as a tutorial and go to Rennlist on the 928 forum
I'm looking at getting an 1984 928 from a customer that's been sitting outside for 10 years. What's your thoughts on if I should get it or not and what would you pay for it 🤔
I heard that the ones that are just parked are not great 928, because those vehicles need to be driven every day
indeed , I do want it to be relatively Loud. Best 8Cylinder sound around
It’s a beautiful car
My Friend, which Precision Auto Works???
I googled that name and there are many businesses with that name. Thanks for pointing out which one! 👍
Great informative video love these 928s prices going up in uk
Tks Mark, based on BaT here in the US and the really low production volume (61,000) the spike is imminent. The market is starting to realize that Porsche made cars other than the 911 that were also great. Big shadow to get out from under, but if the 944 and 928 were made by any other company methinks the values would be up by now.
@@mrjones100 hi you being a porsche guy what do u think of the panamera range especially the diesel . my car mates not keen I do like the 4.8 s the DNA is inherited from 928 game changer from snowy england
@@markeverts336 Panamaras are easily the most comfortable cars I've ridden in, but I haven't driven one personally. From my perspective the 928 is a small GT car in a way that the Panamara sedans/saloons are not. Consider the 928 more like the BMW 6 or 8 series and the Panamara as the 7 series. And if you are in snowy UK why not look at the Panamara 4 variants? As for diesel or not, never owned one personally so my opinion isn't formed empirically but I'd pass on them due to weight, smell, and the lack of tuning options.
regarding your comments about wheels are you sure your rear wheels are correct? My S4 has the same style wheel but the rear wheels are wider than the front wheels, and the rear tyres are different size to the front also.
Really appreciate your observations owning yours. I am a pretty mechanical DIY Porsche Mechanic with previous air-cooled cars and a current 09' C4S. I am checking out a 86.5 5spd this week. It's been a dream of mine owning one for years. You in the PNW by chance? Cheers.
Big fan of the C4S! Not on the West Coast Brian...'near Annapolis. It would be very interesting to try the 5 speed as I am really impressed with the V8 in these cars, especially the top end, and I love 3 pedal cars. Good luck with the 86.5!
Did you buy it?
It drives heavy when driven slow. As you speed up, it just flies with no squeeling tires or noises. It just..... goes fast, and unlike a 911, not backwards into a tree. Oh, and it's not a 'front engine'. The engine is between the front and rear axles, giving it perfect 50/50 weight balance. It's a mid engine, just the same as car with the engine behind the driver but in front of the rear axles.
Excellent video. Did you also test-drive a 5 speed? I'm looking at auto and manual S4s now - have driven the auto and will the 5 sp soon. Loved the MB-sourced box.
Never did, but agonized over the choice. The tipping point was a conversation with a guy at a cars and coffee in Annapolis, Maryland who has had several 928s. He told me that the car is better suited to the automatic. And frankly I love the MB 4-speed auto transmission. Also, the manuals seem to be fussy and generally imprecise, but that's just what I read.
The manuals can be made of glass, actually but once sorted I think the s4 is better suited to the manual. At just over 3400 pounds and just over 320 hp it’s a good fit. I know people say the auto is okay but…the manual is more fun for a spirited drive.
Because you don’t need to kick down to fourth to pass like in a 944 it’s not as big of a gap, but heel toeing coming out of turns in a 928 is a blast and something bystanders aren’t used to seeing. It’s fun to twitch the rear on a good turn.
But unlike other Porsches where the manuals can be cheaper to maintain here they aren’t, transaxle removal, expensive clutch kits and worn gearing can cause headaches. This comes down to the driver.
Well done. Spot on with every point..
Got me a black '82 5-speed. Fun to drive, but too many gremlins. Probably chase those for the next 5 years, but vac lines & fuse/relay advice is great.
I have a 911… this was also a car I wanted as a kid
A beast gt car
Nice and pretty clean looking car although the steering wheel, shifter and metal strip makes it look „cheap“. Rear wheel; just update with two OEM good used 8“x16“ S4 rear and 245/45-16, some 20mm wheel spacers each side. Makes a big difference
OEM wheel is very badly frayed and had a poorly executed refurb attempted at some point that will require significant work by a pro upholstery shop. The OEM AT shifter was cracked open. Sun damage and warpage to the glove box top edge was so pronounced that is had damaged the door (which i intend to remove and build back up before recovering it in marine vinyl). Doing the best I can right now Garage928 to create a functional setup while continuing other work on a car that was unloved by POs.
I didn't realize the S4 manhole cover rims were larger. The current gap makes me nuts.
The cars on your YT channel are gorgeous.
@@mrjones100 thank you and look at the Blue 86,5 again on my yt vid. You see the 8“ rear. I always have plenty off good used parts for the 928 available. Email: 928partsonly@gmail.com, best Rich
Nice car think that shift lever takes some of the class from it imo
Agreed...the OEM unit is damaged badly and I have to invest some time rebuilding it if I can. Project for another day.
Just looked again for an OEM...$400 at pelicanparts.com. My plan is to either find one to refurb or rebuild the broken one I have from the PO. It's broken in the usual spot (cracked apart at the base). Even at half that cost there's other priorities.
What stem shift knob is that you have. Any specific place I could find it?
Mmm if your steering is heavy your rack is going or you need to check the struts and ball joints. Later 928s have easy steering if well maintained.
They handle well because they are actually light and solid. When well tuned suspension wise they will toss like a nineties five series.
Secret to comfort is original seats. It’s hard to remake them well. Original seats have a look you can’t replicate.
928s stand out no doubt, and people seem to like the early ones for the Risky Business look or the later ones for the spoilers.
Michelin’s are key. Those are anodized gullideckel 16 inch forged wheels and if not the prettiest, they are light.
Oil clean/ stock air filters and make sure they are clean with no leaks.
Interior items are MUCH more expensive than one might think, to the point some would rather have a great interior and middling mechanics! You wouldn’t think thus would work but interior restoration is at least $4k and you need an expert.
Sachs clutch kit late: $895. Manual Third gear synchro: $212. It’s funny how the weirdest parts will trip you up.
Good point. My comment here was more about relative effort compared to most modern sports cars.
Asking for an average, a median, how much do you guys spend per annum in maintenance? Don't count the standard stuff; tires, oil changes, battery; how much do you think you spend per year keeping your car in shape? My current estimate is around $5k a year. But, my car, while not in rough shape, had some maintenance that had not been done in a few years.
Since I am only a year and some months into my first 928 there is not enough historical data for me to comment with authority on normal annual spend. I've been replacing lots of things stem-to-stern that were not maintained in my car by the previous owners. Google "annual maintenance costs porsche 928 rennlist" and see what the forum shows. Don't bother trying to search within the forum search engine (it is pretty poor, so use google and add rennlist to your string).
$5k a year is way too high...sounds like you got a rough one..after owning multiple 928s over 20 years... a well sorted one should only cost $1k-$2k a year and that typically includes oil changes, etc...
@@checkmate1996 i agree mint ones takes 1k a year or every other two years 1k maybe if it is all mint yea if good yea 1k a year
Jeremy Clarkson likes this car, too. 😊
I got my 1986 Porsche 928 5 speed back in 1999 had no idea the passengers side has a hatch release knob. lol. Actually the power hatch wasn't working because of the missing tiny plastic bushing insert on the lever so I tied 3 zip ties around the lever hole to attach the ball joint. My odometer stopped working in 2004 @164k miles. My A/C has leak and needs one ABS wheel speed sensor.
5 speed! I would love to try the stick models. My clutch fan makes so much wind noise that I sometimes think I am pushing the motor higher in the rev range than is happening in the moment. I wonder if you hear it too as you're rev'ing up...I really need to get an electric kit from 928srus.
@@mrjones100 No I don't hear the fan clutch but I did fill it with silicon diff oil #1000 from the RC hobby shop about 4-5 years ago. My next project is porken tensioner and timing belt or an EV motor. Don't tell anyone but my contitech timing belt is 18 years old last replaced in 2003 but has not reached 60K miles yet. I live in San Diego average temp 75 and car is garaged.
The rear hatch insert is $24 und takes you less than 30 seconds to install. I have always plenty off good used parts available. Just send me a list and I will check
I'm definitely in the "love" category. Bitchin wheels, man.
Thanks Firehorse...something about the manhole cover rims that grabs me...plus nothing out there looks remotely like them. Heading to Katie's Cars and Coffee in Great Falls, Virginia tomorrow.
I'm thinking the road noise you are hearing is the result of those Firestone tires on the wheels. Get rid of those and get a better set. Should help.
I have them on my 987S and they are quite good for the cost, but by no means Michelin quiet. Great grip with the Firehawks, though.
I don't know about you. But these cars are addicting to drive.
I love my 93 gts
4 books anyone 928 enthusiast should check out:
Porsche 928: Essential Buyers Guide by David Hemmings
Porsche 928 by Brian Long
Porsche 928 1977 - 1995 Gold Portfolio (Brooklands books)
Porsche 928 Takes On The Competition (Brooklands books)
Thank you for the tips!
@@mrjones100 Do you have any of these books? I've got them and the first one (by David Hemmings) would be the best for knowing some more about weakness to watch out for on 928s.
You said 1986 and a half. I've read that means it has factory bigger brakes and suspension upgrade, and these upgrades were also put on the new 1987 S4 cars.
I like how you're doing the do it yourself fix up as a driver's car and not stashing it away like concours cars.
Great video
Thank you!
Liked 💯👍
Great video, possibly my favourite car design ever. I live in a place where fuel is not cheap but have been thinking of doing a rebuild with a mechanic friend to save one of these. That 1970s 8 cylinder is not very attractive to me. What engine swaps and actual improvements have you seen out there that impress you as worthy? Is there an electrical kit that works better? Is there a reason to put a non-runner back to stock rather than go with upgrades? I used to have a 1989 944t and miss the transaxle feeling, might alternatively look at 968s.
The rebuild of any 928 is worth it - ruclips.net/video/hat81m2DAvs/видео.html
I had a 1980 edition 928 for 12 years. It was a delightful car overall. The key design failure issues I experienced were the brakes required a lot of foot force at low speed. It was terrible design to the point of incompetence. At higher speed they were fine. I tried to get a fix but didn’t find one.
The AC was under powered for the car, which was a surprise.
The car sits too low practical use on many curbs and driveways. You have to be very, very careful when parking next to a curb at the front or side of the car and when pulling in to or out of driveways. Also badly pot holed roads could cause problems. While the low slung stance looks fabulous, it caused a lot of problems over the years.
The 3 speed transmission was dismal. The autobox was made by MB and started in 2nd gear, which is typical for MB, but not great for a sports car. Manual shifting was okay. In later models years they used a different transmission.
The single biggest design failure for the Porsche was the relentless incompetence and arrogance of most Porsche mechanics. No matter how well the mechanic was rated, it was almost always the case that the car had to go back for a 2nd or 3rd repair and just about every time the car went back, the mechanic would blame the car for the mechanic’s shitty workmanship.
Not surprisingly, most of the PCA rated mechanics I went to ultimately closed their doors a few years later. I think most Porsche mechanics at the time were only willing to get formal training on the air cooled models and hid their ineptitude behind a bogus pretense of BS.
I moved on to MB cars after the 928. While MBs do have similar maintenance costs, they do not have the BS and failure related experience related to the mechanics that are or were part of the Porsche experience. With a MB, only rarely does work need to be done a 2nd time.
Two words I could never use with a Porsche mechanic were “the best.” Typical terms for Porsche mechanics are “prima donna,” “arrogant and incompetent”, and “thieves.” Many Porsche mechanics took weeks to do half-assed work and then evaded responsibility when the problem wasn’t fixed, or a new problem came up after the fix. Hope that has changed by now but it appeared to be the design experience with about half a dozen dealer and inde mechanics I went to over the 12 years I had the 928. Wish that wasn’t the case as I’d still drive Porsches today if they had a competent repair services.
Exactly the same experience with a well rated indy near me! Bad experiences with both my 987 and the 928. One of the reasons why I have spent a lot of time doing things myself frankly. I totally agree that any assumption that an air cooled guru would know diddly about the clean sheet V8 GT cars is in the court of caveat emptor.
I have found the 928S brakes and tyranny to be really good, surprisingly so in fact. The 86.5 has many S4 components and the 4 speed AT has been great, especially after adjusting the shift cable at the quadrant. Sounds like a lot of progress was made during the development years after your earlier 928. The MB cars in the 70s and 80s are so robust.
@@mrjones100 When I have time I do my own work and the 928 design made this mostly very doable. Often it is a better use of my time to let someone else do it.
After 20 years even in the cool temps of northern Washington State, the rubber bits on my 2000 MB are nearly stiff as rock and leak so am putting in new gaskets and tubes for a sunroof. Of course, the original big sunroof gasket is no longer available and the factory replacement takes a tad of work and some RTV to get it right.
My MB’s are from the ‘90’s and later. All are very reliable but anything over 20 years old has needs that go beyond typical maintenance. O rings and gaskets become hard and don’t do their jobs well, timing chain guards break, suspension parts fail due to age, vacuum lines need to be replaced due to age, parts that have been heat soaked just crumble, and on and on. a Porsche from this vintage would have the same issues as they have a lot of, if not the same parts, the same manufacturers of parts.
I agree Porsche made major improvements on the 928S series. I have looked at and drove a few of them. This is definitely the way to go. I don’t know if the repair segment has improved but don’t expect a 928s to be affordable by most mere mortals if they rely on a shop.
There's a 928 that's for 3,000 but it's been sitting for 20 years and it's engine is frozen. Would u get it?
Personally, no, but it depends on your resources and goal for the car. What you describe sounds like a $15k investment to get it back to a daily driver at least. For some that might be a starting point for a windows-out full body restoration. Just depends again on your intent. If it is a GTS or Club all bets change and yes I would buy it as a 'some day' car. Otherwise that sounds like hundreds of hours of work and bags of money.
no lol it will coast u tons yet still will be crap jump car. always buy a good condition one
this car was far ahead of anything of its era for breaking distance and i think it took corvette until early 2000's to match its 175 ft breaking distance from 70mph to 0
Owning a car like this is much like dating a crazy runway model. She is gorgeous but you have to put up with a lot of management problems.
What happened to the rectangular jump post cover?
You are not the first to ask but nothing that fits that general description is in my parts collection from working on the car. And the last reference I read wasn't very detailed and seemed to debate whether all years had it. Do you have a part#?
@@mrjones100 Jerry Feather sells a reproduction jump post cover and cap. This is what I have.
By the way, nice presentation!!
Update: Jerry Feather jump post parts arrived today!
i used to own a 1979 928 and it was great when it ran. i was in my early 20s and it was too much as a daily so i sold it and ever since i missed having a Porsche and a few years ago i bought a 06 Cayman S.
Put Cup 1 GTS wheels on it, that will fix your more tyre issue. 🦘🇦🇺🙃 84 S2.
Accepting donations ;)
True on all accounts
Thanks for the feedback. Anything else you think I missed?
I own 2 1985 black 928s, I’ve replaced just about as much as you have. My 5 speed is fitted with the S4 1987 engine and transmission.
I’m the mechanic for my Porsche as in my early years in the mid 80s, I was trained in high school and college. It’s been a learning experience like I’ve never would’ve believed.
It’s a crazy car to say the least.
Your good 👍🏽
What color is that 928?
Meteor Gray Metallic
Please put back the original automatic shifter and steering wheel.
Shifter cracked and damaged by PO and may not be salvageable and porsche replacements are >$400 with some popping up used for $300. If you can offer ideas with links for alternatives that are more affordable and align better to OEM look let me know. Open to suggestions LetMrAL1.
Steering wheel is a tattered mess which was hastily covered with a bad aftermarket kit which is a refoaming, dyeing, and covering project for another day. I do like the OEM look, too, but I will probably thicken the foam a bit because the original is very thin and I have large hands.
A nice set of 8" X17 front and 10x17 " rear CUP II or turbo twists would make it look soooo much better. Those manhole cover wheels gotta go, lol.
Yes, I agree. Mine had spoke rims, in chrome
Wonderful 928 you have there! The S3 engine looks wicked with the stretched intake compared to the S4 intake. Roadnoise can be limited by mounting Michelin Pilot Sport tyres. Maybe you can fit 245 wide S4 wheels. Windnoise is really something that belongs to the car, the 928 GTS has less windnoise due to the cupmirrors although they don't fit the style of the earlier 928 models i.o. Good luck!
Awesome discussion on the 928. Here's a fascinating look at a pure 928 enthusiast The 928 Midnight Rider
ruclips.net/video/_am8DPam0gc/видео.html
Please install original gear lever and steering wheel. Please, please!
Have. Done.
Who cares what you expected
Aren't you special.
When your LH ECU fails it will strand you on the spot without notice. I strongly advise you to have it rebuilt before it fails. Here in the UK we have a specialist Porsche 928 electronics company - www.jdsporsche.com . I personally recommend them after our LH failed in the middle of the Yorkshire moors stranding us. I took it in to John Speake at JDS in Cambridge, England, who turned it round very quickly at a sensible price. 1988 928s4 Black/black.