Belt compression, or the lack thereof, doesn't matter for UPS anymore. At least not directly. The belt optimizations talked about in the Friday Fun Facts #176 go into the how's and whys, but the TL;DR is that belts only track one position in their list of items now. The UPS issues with belts come from transport line breaks, which splitters (and thus balancers) create a lot of. Splitters can also create interdependencies where batches of transport lines need to be processed as large monolithic blocks, which means they can't be multithreaded. This is why you'll never see the ultra high SPM bases using balancers. They're not needed, and they create lag. Belt Compression matters for inserters interacting with belts because it reduces the amount of seek time that an inserter does, which is why in most of the ultra high SPM megabases you'll see lane compaction partway down a line on any system that needs more than a full lane of inputs. If you don't know what I'm referring to, it's one of these. (Watch youtube block me because it thinks this is spam.) 0eJyl092KwjAQBeB3OdeptLG1Npe+hixLq8MSaKchiWIpffdtdBFBXPpzmWTynQlhelT1hYzV7KF66FPLDurYw+kfLuuw5ztDUNCeGghw2YQV3Ywl5yJvS3amtT6qqPYYBDSf6QaVDF8CxF57TQ/x/5sCpnVjccshMwCbTKCDiuJNNrJnben0ON79wd03X5qKbAgTs/34o5+++XKFP6H97QI+muGnS/zkkx+/+dma/qf8727NA6YE5EsC5IyAfRiH+wipl4kTuJJ19ytyn6R5IfNUFsW2SATqcowdqw/P6mH4BTdIOkY= That allows the outer transport line downstream to permanently go to sleep (because it's empty), and the sideload gives lane priority to the outside lane of the input, which acts as a "soft" lane balancer for the inputs. The inserters upstream are interacting with a compacted innner lane semi regularly, and the downstream inserters only have one lane, that is also more likely to be compact or under backpressure. This also applies to train loading. If UPS matters, a madzuri style loader will almost always outperform a 1 to 6 balancer because the inserters are forced to go to sleep frequently via the circuits in a madzuri loader, and because the belt isn't being split up into a ton of spaced out outputs the inserters need to seek and swing less.
(Watch youtube block me because it thinks this is spam.) --> RUclips blocked your comment because it thought it was spam Thanks, more people mentioned about the UPS being close or equal now, but without reference. I'm going to have a look now!
Yeah I did an experiment with about 40,000 belts a few months ago, compact vs. spaced out. Looked at the update time in the debug menu. Made absolutely no difference.
cool thing is, by the time friday arrives i dont remenber that this series exist. then i see the new video and i remenber that im watching a cool factorio playtrouh. and next week im sure is going to be the same
While I more than understand the legitimacy of Johnny’s Revenge… The OCD part of my brain wants to get rid of all worm/biter/alien presence within the walls.
I don't play factorio ( I'm that Satisfactory type of guys.... ) but I love so much you're video ! Watching you since the first movie of 3 h 30, and never get bored or skipped a part of you're videos. Keep going, you're storytelling is really good ! Thank you : )
@@maltardraco9555 when you can't find any modders as sadomasochistic as yourself, you have to take matters into your own hands and make your dream RampantAI compatible flying biters mod...
Started up my first survival factorio game in years with a mate, He asked me if i knew how to play factorio. "Do i know how to play factorio survival? i've studied the master arts of Michael Hendriks" i told him. Our base was completly overun after 30mins xD
I'll just leave a thanks here for drawing my attention to the TSSSJJJ noise you're pointing out whenever a Train stops. I can't stop repeating that noise whenever I hear it now. And I'm currently in the process of building a rail-based Space Base in Space Exploration using a ton of 1-1-1 trains. TSSSJJJ!!!
TSSSJJJ!!! I love trains... trains are possibly one my favorite things in Cracktorio. Hell, my friend hates the game, but loves when I talk about trains. XD
Awesome series! An idea about the recap: maybe out a visual in the corner or a banner saying something like “In the last episode” you could also take a filter over the whole screen to change the hue. That way it will be clear that we haven’t clicked in the wrong video and that the recap is ongoing.
Watching you feebly deny a train addiction made me laugh. In about 600 hours of playtime, I've refused to use trains to any serious degree. Now I'm trying to do a playthrough using a significant amount of train infrastructure, and trying to make the trains work has been the closest I've ever come to rage-quitting the game LUL
It just so happens that you tend to upload around 1 AM my time, but I always watch it as soon as I see it even if it means staying up later than I was going to. :)
17:20 i'm glad you put a countdown because it took me that long to figure out what i was meant to do, and i tssjjj'd at the exact right time as my brain processed the information, and then i cracked the fuck up laughing hahah
As mentioned in last update that optimized belts - it is not nessesary to have them fully compressed. They always will be optimized the same as long as belt is not interrupted.
I cant wait for this to be finished and to watch all the episodes again end to end. Hopefully you do a long video with all the episodes played end to end like you did with the last series.
Do you think you could make a guide video at some point with all the handy debug menu features you use? I used a few features of it before but this series and channel opened my eyes to all the stuff there is in that menu
I don't think I'll do a seperate video on it, I usually explain them upon using them, and it's fairly easy to understand most of them when reading what they do.
FYI, inserters work (slightly) faster when on faster belts. It's most noticeable with stack inserters, but affects all of them. (That being said, this mainly matters when the inserter stack size is 3 or more.) (...it's actually weirder than this. The absolute fastest approach is actually to sideload onto a _yellow_ belt in some cases...)
@@MichaelHendriks Yep! It's a combination of several effects. Inserters actually have two types of movement (rotation and extension), and/but rotation is much faster than extension. Sometimes extension time is 'hidden', because it's done at the same time as the rotation, but not always. Inserters will move to where an item _is_, not where an item _will be_ This is most obvious with slow inserters on fast belts, and will result in the inserter e.g. turning to the left when turning to the right would be faster. And underground belts cheat. Less than they used to, but they still do so somewhat. The game is far 'fuzzier' about where exactly items are on an underground belt than an ordinary belt. (Put two parallel belts. Replace one of them with an underground belt. Put inserters drawing from both of them. Put items on both belts. And note the inserter managing to pull items out when the item 'should' be nowhere near the inserter.)
Yeah I already figured it was due to the inserters not needing to move to the exact "spot" to pick up the item from underground belts. I actually filmed a clip later where upgrading to undergound belt fixes that inserter througput issue at a train loading station, I don't remember exactly when put it's still several episodes away I think
at 15:48 i think theres an editing error. You say "so we build the three mines for the chip setup" again(and it sounds like its the same recording too) despite the fact that youre hooking up the ore to the furnaces not building mines. you probably mixed up voice recordings in editing there
Ah yes, the ackward intermediate phase of building towards final epicness. But boooooo trains, I had so much hope after your previous episode declaring belts safer and more efficient. I really wanted to see a 40km long belt track. Can you promise this is really the only train?
@@deadmonkeyhd2875 one must be an even bigger fool to think that all the choices being made in this series is about efficiency and not about what makes a good video experience. Why else would he connect the upper mines using belts? why use a single track? Or only three spider trons. As such my comments are of the same level of sarcasme. Michael is such a good player, that he doesn't need "optimal" or "efficient", just "good enough and fun enough" ;)
In the new steel build, there's a line extending the iron ore input on the top side, it runs over to the steel line feeding the topmost rail car. I saw a splitter which I expect filters out the ore, but I'm curious why have the line there in the first place?
11:56 am I missing something obvious, or that belt of iron connecting to the steel train does absolutely nothing but memes? If that splitter has a fish as a filter, guess I answer my own question (can't tell with my monitor)
That's a lot of furnaces! Do you not want to use beacons or something? I think 7 or 8 fully beaconed furnaces can fill a blue belt. Also nice Metallica reference. :P These always end too soon...
For iron plates, 13 furnaces can fill a blue belt wih full T3 modules. For steel it's about 130, as it takes 5 ore to make 1 steel, and 2 furnace steps to smelt. So far, I have only T1 modules, so beacons are not so strong yet.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Mamushi (Remix) [feat. TWICE] [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5c0_u9PsrsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Belt compression, or the lack thereof, doesn't matter for UPS anymore. At least not directly. The belt optimizations talked about in the Friday Fun Facts #176 go into the how's and whys, but the TL;DR is that belts only track one position in their list of items now. The UPS issues with belts come from transport line breaks, which splitters (and thus balancers) create a lot of. Splitters can also create interdependencies where batches of transport lines need to be processed as large monolithic blocks, which means they can't be multithreaded. This is why you'll never see the ultra high SPM bases using balancers. They're not needed, and they create lag.
Belt Compression matters for inserters interacting with belts because it reduces the amount of seek time that an inserter does, which is why in most of the ultra high SPM megabases you'll see lane compaction partway down a line on any system that needs more than a full lane of inputs. If you don't know what I'm referring to, it's one of these. (Watch youtube block me because it thinks this is spam.)
0eJyl092KwjAQBeB3OdeptLG1Npe+hixLq8MSaKchiWIpffdtdBFBXPpzmWTynQlhelT1hYzV7KF66FPLDurYw+kfLuuw5ztDUNCeGghw2YQV3Ywl5yJvS3amtT6qqPYYBDSf6QaVDF8CxF57TQ/x/5sCpnVjccshMwCbTKCDiuJNNrJnben0ON79wd03X5qKbAgTs/34o5+++XKFP6H97QI+muGnS/zkkx+/+dma/qf8727NA6YE5EsC5IyAfRiH+wipl4kTuJJ19ytyn6R5IfNUFsW2SATqcowdqw/P6mH4BTdIOkY=
That allows the outer transport line downstream to permanently go to sleep (because it's empty), and the sideload gives lane priority to the outside lane of the input, which acts as a "soft" lane balancer for the inputs. The inserters upstream are interacting with a compacted innner lane semi regularly, and the downstream inserters only have one lane, that is also more likely to be compact or under backpressure.
This also applies to train loading. If UPS matters, a madzuri style loader will almost always outperform a 1 to 6 balancer because the inserters are forced to go to sleep frequently via the circuits in a madzuri loader, and because the belt isn't being split up into a ton of spaced out outputs the inserters need to seek and swing less.
(Watch youtube block me because it thinks this is spam.) --> RUclips blocked your comment because it thought it was spam
Thanks, more people mentioned about the UPS being close or equal now, but without reference. I'm going to have a look now!
Here's the link to the FFF: www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176
Yeah I did an experiment with about 40,000 belts a few months ago, compact vs. spaced out. Looked at the update time in the debug menu. Made absolutely no difference.
@@DFPercush science! Nice.
OP: Good to know!
Calling it now, the run is gonna end because of the train.
19:43 is there anything more aesthetically pleasing than a full bus? It's like the tech equivalent of looking into a fully stocked fridge
genuinely one of the most beautiful series on youtube. you had better be really proud michael
The best thing about needing to wake up at 5am is watching this videos when they come out
You could have slept in another 20mins and watched it later lmao
@@TheSaintsVEVO well no, because I kinda like need to go to my classes at uni
@@gogelebrero7335 but you are watching the video when you wake up.
@@esajpsasipes2822 yes
@@gogelebrero7335 so if you don’t watch the video, you can sleep instead in that time
cool thing is, by the time friday arrives i dont remenber that this series exist. then i see the new video and i remenber that im watching a cool factorio playtrouh. and next week im sure is going to be the same
you truely are amazig :P
This series, and Pete Completes Rimworld series, is top comfy to watch.
Broooo same!! I loved the one on the ice sheet
I see you too are a man of culture.
While I more than understand the legitimacy of Johnny’s Revenge…
The OCD part of my brain wants to get rid of all worm/biter/alien presence within the walls.
No Leaf Clover reference! Love it. Awesome song too
I love the side romance story between the twos patreon's biters ^^
That's gonna get out of hand real soon now lol
Shoulda gone to bed, here I am instead. Wonderful work as always. I demand TSSSSSJJ merch.
You can be the second person in the world with a T-SSSJJJIRT! There is a link to a memish merch store in the description
NICE! :D
I literally finished watching the last video like 10 minutes ago, this is perfect timing
loving the series so far!
this is the best factorio gameplay
I binged this whole series over the last couple days! The editing is great and your narration is really chill and fun
2 blue belts of solid green chips, such a beautiful sight
I don't play factorio ( I'm that Satisfactory type of guys.... ) but I love so much you're video ! Watching you since the first movie of 3 h 30, and never get bored or skipped a part of you're videos. Keep going, you're storytelling is really good ! Thank you : )
Obligatory call out of the Metallica - No Leaf Clover reference at 6:37 ;) nice
A man of culture
Death worlds in vanilla: Save the trees! No concrete!
Death worlds in modded: Ha ha, waterfill go slosh...
I just thought of swimming biters, if your going to mod your impossibly insane difficulty challenge, why not all the way?
@@BrianatorFTW Flying biters is a mod I have been looking for, no-one has made it yet.
@@maltardraco9555 when you can't find any modders as sadomasochistic as yourself, you have to take matters into your own hands and make your dream RampantAI compatible flying biters mod...
Merch Idea: Shirt with "TSSSSSJJ" no more :D
How does it say your comment was posted 6 days ago when the video just went live today?
@@Marvininini premiere probably
@@Marvininini He is a patreon and sees the video one week in advance
A TSSSSSJJIRT if you will.
Patreon
Started up my first survival factorio game in years with a mate, He asked me if i knew how to play factorio. "Do i know how to play factorio survival? i've studied the master arts of Michael Hendriks" i told him.
Our base was completly overun after 30mins xD
Yessssssssssssss, the perfect way to end a Thursday Night/Friday Morning.
Watched this while in a train. The one I rode didn't go TSSSJJJ :(
It's the only yt series I am waiting a whole week to watch
The amount of times ive ruined my sleep schedule staying up till 2am cause thats when these release for me...
15:00 haha that little sound edit there was amazing! ♥
I'll just leave a thanks here for drawing my attention to the TSSSJJJ noise you're pointing out whenever a Train stops. I can't stop repeating that noise whenever I hear it now.
And I'm currently in the process of building a rail-based Space Base in Space Exploration using a ton of 1-1-1 trains. TSSSJJJ!!!
TSSSJJJ!!! on!
I'm seriously worried TSSSJJJ will be able to achieve the feat no biter horde has: catch the engineer off guard and send this playthrough to oblivion
With the UNLIMITED POWER of the Tssjjj(ooo) your base has become: fully operational. Now it is time to enact order 6.......
TSSSJJJ!!! I love trains... trains are possibly one my favorite things in Cracktorio. Hell, my friend hates the game, but loves when I talk about trains. XD
Just as i wanted to get some Work done you drop this video. I guess work can wait
8:21 You sir have stumbled upon the golden maxim of applied engineering: Good enough, is Prefect.
Ford Prefect
never been more invested in a series then this one, and i have never played factorio
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME?
i make train sounds in front of my PC xDDDDDD
thx as always, it was really really enjoyable to watch :)
Awesome series! An idea about the recap: maybe out a visual in the corner or a banner saying something like “In the last episode” you could also take a filter over the whole screen to change the hue. That way it will be clear that we haven’t clicked in the wrong video and that the recap is ongoing.
17:05 Wait, what? I never knew you could ride in the cargo wagons. I've been playing Factorio for years!
full belts make one happy!
I just noticed that the spidertrons are not named. What did SpiderBen did to lose his name?
I forgot that I can actually name them :/
I cant not watch these they are too good
Gotta love the "No Leaf Clover" reference!
This editing is TSSSSJJJJ!
Enjoyed this very much! Thank you for this video
Always good to see another episode!
Watching you feebly deny a train addiction made me laugh. In about 600 hours of playtime, I've refused to use trains to any serious degree. Now I'm trying to do a playthrough using a significant amount of train infrastructure, and trying to make the trains work has been the closest I've ever come to rage-quitting the game LUL
It just so happens that you tend to upload around 1 AM my time, but I always watch it as soon as I see it even if it means staying up later than I was going to. :)
i clicked on the video so fast when i saw the TSSSSJJJ in the thumbnail, i cannot explain how happy it makes me haha
It's Friday and there is a new Michael Hendriks video to enjoy, plus Factorio on Switch today! A good one for sure.
17:20 i'm glad you put a countdown because it took me that long to figure out what i was meant to do, and i tssjjj'd at the exact right time as my brain processed the information, and then i cracked the fuck up laughing hahah
God... this base is fucking amazing.
Friday is soon there. Can't wait again!
Channel is back. Nice.
yeah I wondered what happened. Suddenly all the vids went private and loads of comments deleted
@@noaccount4 He got hacked by some dumbass Crypto shill, unfortunately. But he's back now.
Tssssj for michael is what rocks is for trupen
Hands down the best series on youtube. Keep up the great work! 👏
As mentioned in last update that optimized belts - it is not nessesary to have them fully compressed. They always will be optimized the same as long as belt is not interrupted.
Do you remember which update, approximately? I couldn't find any info related to that post factorio 1.1
And a very good morning to you as well.
I love this series! When its over you should do a Space Exploration playthrough
i'm sad because i just binged this series in like 2 days
good thing there will be a new episode tomorrow
Rightclick on video -> Stats for nerds -> Loudness: 2.6dB - That's why you're clipping
17:34 You can FLIP Blueprints?! I have played Factorio for 800 hours and didn't know that. My life has been a lie.
Oh TSSSJJJ!!! I've missed you.
Looking forward to the age of cannon.
I cant wait for this to be finished and to watch all the episodes again end to end. Hopefully you do a long video with all the episodes played end to end like you did with the last series.
Yeah, but this one will be a trilogy due to it's length. The first movie (ep1-10) is already out!
finally looks like a normal playthrough
I wonder how many hours have gone into the making of this series: actual gameplay, editing, mentally preparing for this WILD world
Keep the series going i love it!
Love it. Keep up the great work buddy !
2:05 dad: Turn off the light, u bastard
I'd want this series to never end. Do you plan on making a cityblock megabase with absurd science production at some point ? :D
I may do a 10k SPM, but not with city blocks
Thanks!
Thanks yet again mate!
the black widow and white recluse are so goddamn cool i use them in my own games ❤
I don't think it's possible to work with trains in factorio (even once) and not get addicted. The stuff is simply too good.🤷🏼♂️
I just noticed you haven't named the spiders in-game. I think it would make sense to do that just for the detail if you can. Thanks!
I forgot it was possible to do so during recording
Love the Metallica - No Leaf Clover reference! \m/
\m/
Great things are to come... from the skys for they are legion.
Also how's that pumpjack doing? +/-?
~
Ah, the glorious sound of ТЩЩЩЩЩ!
It does seem easier to write in Cyrillic lol
I'm learning so much god damn
Do you think you could make a guide video at some point with all the handy debug menu features you use? I used a few features of it before but this series and channel opened my eyes to all the stuff there is in that menu
I don't think I'll do a seperate video on it, I usually explain them upon using them, and it's fairly easy to understand most of them when reading what they do.
Every time i see a factorio image with a yellow outline with yellow text on yt recomended a big smile pop on my face and after those 20 min it gone :(
love this content man !
the series was good when u were chased by bitter but now i want the bitters being exploded ;)
Your Wish shall be granted Next Episode...
This is pleasing.
metallica hendriks i love it
FYI, inserters work (slightly) faster when on faster belts. It's most noticeable with stack inserters, but affects all of them.
(That being said, this mainly matters when the inserter stack size is 3 or more.)
(...it's actually weirder than this. The absolute fastest approach is actually to sideload onto a _yellow_ belt in some cases...)
I did also notice inserters take way faster from an underground belt than from a regular belt
@@MichaelHendriks Yep! It's a combination of several effects.
Inserters actually have two types of movement (rotation and extension), and/but rotation is much faster than extension. Sometimes extension time is 'hidden', because it's done at the same time as the rotation, but not always.
Inserters will move to where an item _is_, not where an item _will be_ This is most obvious with slow inserters on fast belts, and will result in the inserter e.g. turning to the left when turning to the right would be faster.
And underground belts cheat. Less than they used to, but they still do so somewhat. The game is far 'fuzzier' about where exactly items are on an underground belt than an ordinary belt. (Put two parallel belts. Replace one of them with an underground belt. Put inserters drawing from both of them. Put items on both belts. And note the inserter managing to pull items out when the item 'should' be nowhere near the inserter.)
Yeah I already figured it was due to the inserters not needing to move to the exact "spot" to pick up the item from underground belts. I actually filmed a clip later where upgrading to undergound belt fixes that inserter througput issue at a train loading station, I don't remember exactly when put it's still several episodes away I think
15:17 and 15:49 Mike accidentally repeating himself 😅
I never repeat myself. You must be dreaming. I never repeat myself!
FINALLY, TRAINS! I FUCKING LOVE TRAINS
at 15:48 i think theres an editing error. You say "so we build the three mines for the chip setup" again(and it sounds like its the same recording too) despite the fact that youre hooking up the ore to the furnaces not building mines. you probably mixed up voice recordings in editing there
I appreciated the subtle Metallica reference
TSSSSSJJJJJJJ!!!!!!!!
Ah yes, the ackward intermediate phase of building towards final epicness. But boooooo trains, I had so much hope after your previous episode declaring belts safer and more efficient. I really wanted to see a 40km long belt track. Can you promise this is really the only train?
Well no, next episode a... different type of train will make it's first trip...
One must be a fool to deny the greatness of the perfect mashine, that is the train of factorio.
@@deadmonkeyhd2875 one must be an even bigger fool to think that all the choices being made in this series is about efficiency and not about what makes a good video experience. Why else would he connect the upper mines using belts? why use a single track? Or only three spider trons.
As such my comments are of the same level of sarcasme. Michael is such a good player, that he doesn't need "optimal" or "efficient", just "good enough and fun enough" ;)
10:40 - wouldn't it be better to feed blue splitter with 2 red belts? That way - both sides of red belts would be used, not only one.
That's okay too, I sideloaded to limit production to 180/s
oh I thought this series was at an end because of the title names of the previous episodes
In the new steel build, there's a line extending the iron ore input on the top side, it runs over to the steel line feeding the topmost rail car. I saw a splitter which I expect filters out the ore, but I'm curious why have the line there in the first place?
To transport the player to film the timelapse
i dont believe in chest balancers at train stations
at 12:05 you can see an iron ore belt is connected to the steel output
It was purely built for filming the on-belt timelapse ;)
Ah, I was worried that you were going to end up with ore in your steel belts and clog up the factory 😅
Still waiting for world peace. What I am paying for you?
World Peace requires proper preparation, my friend... We need to gain the strength to strike sudden and definitive, once it is time!
@@MichaelHendriks Your strength makes me happy my friend.
Great episode. Did I see you side loading iron ore to the steel belts at the outpost?
Blocked by prio splitter, extra belt was just for recoding timelapse ;)
11:56 am I missing something obvious, or that belt of iron connecting to the steel train does absolutely nothing but memes?
If that splitter has a fish as a filter, guess I answer my own question (can't tell with my monitor)
Good catch :)
I built it purely for filming, but had to prevent iron mixing in on the steel belt, hence the fish splitter
@@MichaelHendriks So Ben helped out again, I see.
TSSSJJJ!!!
I hope the next gamemode is deathworld in space, i really wanna see how a high IQ player will make me question every decision ive made in my worlds
This is inspiring!
That's a lot of furnaces! Do you not want to use beacons or something? I think 7 or 8 fully beaconed furnaces can fill a blue belt. Also nice Metallica reference. :P These always end too soon...
For iron plates, 13 furnaces can fill a blue belt wih full T3 modules. For steel it's about 130, as it takes 5 ore to make 1 steel, and 2 furnace steps to smelt.
So far, I have only T1 modules, so beacons are not so strong yet.