Cold Weather Layering: Part 2 - What Is The Wind Layer?
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- In this video, Kevin walks us through what the Wind layer is, debunks some myths about them, and explains how they fit within the cold weather layering system.
In case you missed it, please check out our Guide to Choosing a Base Layer in Part 1 of our Cold Weather Layering Series, Here: • Cold Weather Layering:...
0:01 Introduction
0:25 - Function of the Windlayer
1:43 - Base Layer Video • Cold Weather Layering:...
2:23 - Sizing
3:20 - Hill People Gear Windcheater
4:07 - Ventilation
6:20 - Using a Fur Ruff
8:06 - Orc Industries Windshell
9:20 - Seam Sealing
10:00 - Waist Cinch
10:21 - Stowable Hood
10:43 - OTTE Gear Windshirt V2
12:29 - Field Shirt
13:19 - Poor Examples
13:55 - Closing Thoughts
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At the end of this series I’d really like to see an episode on camp coverings. Overwhites, pack covers, etc. Layers specifically to camouflage you
Ohai lol
Just wear MCB. Don't need to hide when you look cool.
OTTE sells some great overwhites
Thanks for the shout out, homies. We appreciate you! #americanMade
Really finding this series educational! Can’t wait for the next segment, thanks guys!
Great to hear!
This dude is spot on when he talks about most outdoor outerwear being undersized-I used to wonder if it was just me that noticed that... straight up the best videos/series on layering I've found
Generally the British outdoor brands are a bit bigger. Rab or Berghaus to be specific. The Italian ones though are very fittet like salewa or Montura
The worst part is the cut under the armpit. It is much higher now than in past years and causes midlayers to bunch up, restricting arm movement.
The outdoor magazine reviewers never point out real faults.
@@michaelw2288true, those reviewers are selling to the upper class douches that want to pretend to be rustic and outdoorsy. They get decked out on their gear from REI, walk a trail in a park and pretend they are Jeremiah Johnson.
Coming back to this series at the temperatures start dropping. Wore my Windcheater last night while out trick or treating with the kiddos. Stayed nice and warm. Definitely my favorite jacket.
Something to consider as a cheap surplus option is the level 4 jacket from the ECWCS system, which is designed as a wind layer. It is a constant companion of mine from Alaska to the Mojave desert it is very useful for all the reasons listed in the video. Large chest pockets that vent heat, full front zip, and two shoulder pockets. No pit zips or hood though.
But for sun $30 at a surplus store, a decent jacket to go out in and see what features/weight you need for your area.
Agreed. Once I started the video my thoughts immediately went to this jacket. Unfortunately I had to turn it back in to CIF but I went and bought another one.
I just bought one off eBay last week.
Wool is such a amazing material that can be worn and made so many different ways. Just big bucks if you want it to feel good on your skin. But past the skin layer it don't really matter.
Great video! I am looking forward to the remainder of the series.
I always thought I was set up with jackets until I picked up a Wind Cheater. Started with the First Spear version. I even sewed a zipper on the hood and added a fur ruff. Then, I tried the HPG model and decided it worked better for my backcountry outings. I have dozens and dozens of jackets, but the WC continues to be my daily pick. Add a puffy over when stagnant or temps dip.
The FS Wind Cheater is an absolutely amazing garment. It's been a standard of my work equipment (outdoor industry) for years. Where it really shines is its scalability, it can be comfortably used in a wide range of weather and temperature conditions and over/under a large range of garments as needed. The Wind Cheater and the Defense Mechanisms Helion are my primary go to jackets these days and compliment each other when worn together.
Kevin, Great simplification of what for PCU/ECWCS Gen III became a moderately complex, seven-plus-level system. I watched this several months ago, but I recently revisited it with winter on its way.
It’s interesting that you’ve labeled the “Shell" of Mark Twight’s “action suit” as Wind Layer. He didn’t really label the layer, but it became known as “Soft Shell” and Level 5, the central pivot and most versatile item in his systems. Unfortunately, commercial designers co-opted that label, and not understanding Twight’s requirements, or physics, apparently, started making the layer too thick or even insulating it. This has led to misunderstanding about what a soft shell is supposed to do and be.
I had started thinking of this layer as an "Action Shell” or “Active Shell", but Wind Layer works too. As long as it is not confused with a wind shirt, or Level 4. As proposed by Twight, the wind shirt was supposed to be thin, windproof, and not breathe as well to reduce to normal levels evaporative cooling caused by winds. If winds were expected it was to go under the Shell. If wind came unexpectedly, it could go over the Shell. I don’t think most users of the systems understood this well.
I thought the HPG Wind Cheater was a durable, hooded wind shirt or jacket, but its breathability was always emphasized. There was some discussion that it wasn’t windproof, only wind resistant. You [Kevin] posted a very nice article on the HPG forum about layering during a backpack hunt, and I noticed you used it like a Shell. Then, I stopped by the HPG store in Junction last year and was able feel and try on the Wind Cheater, and it clicked that it really seems to be the Shell of an “action suit." The Shell of the "action suit" could be conveniently wind resistant and water resistant, but its primary job was to breathe, so moisture in the lower layers would wick out. First Spear and HPG used a different fabric 330D brushed-face nylon rather than the Epic favored by military contractors, but the 330D seems to be perform its functions just as well.
Thanks for posting this video.
I do a modified version of the ECWCS. Level 1 silks, level 2 waffle(depending on the temp) are the foundation of my layering system.
If I layer level 1 silks and level 2 waffles over around 32 degrees I get too hot if I’m moving. Those polartec waffles really work but I overheat over 32 - 35 degrees when I’m moving.
@@MarcP5267 Yes, if you know the principles and put in a little trial and error, you can know exactly what you need and when.
@@rjtwocirclesI’m a laborer in a municipality and work outside mostly. Sometimes I’m driving a truck, sometimes on the back of a trash truck slinging trash, other times doing road repairs, other times doing manual labor.
The only time I’m static at work is when I driving a truck. That’s ez.
Most people in the trades and my co workers dress for the cold are the typical Carhartt gear. Wear whatever and a big bulky Carhartt hoody or duck jacket. To me that type of system reduces mobility and doesn’t work as good as the likes of ECWCS or this video series. I think that systems like this video could be modified to include people in the trades and the work I do.
With that being said level 1 silks and level 2 waffles will definitely keep me warm but I need an outer shell to for wind protection. I’ve been wearing my rain jacket as an outer shell and although it works by keeping the wind out, it’s not breathable and durable.
So my modified system consists of system that’s missing a true outer shell to keep the bite out.
I’m pretty sure the Wind Cheater will do the job to replace my rain gear.
My wind layer is an old mountain hardware rain coat with the waterproof liner washed out of it. Works great. Cuts wind just enough but lets sweat evap
Thank you for being so to the point and matter-of-fact of what you need and the options out there. I bought a jacket from a reputable company that is all outdoorsy and into hunting in the west and could not believe the fabric cut and sizing and fragility of the zipper and such. I felt like it was a hunting speedo.😅
I absolutely adore the Wind Cheater. Not quite the same since it's insulated, but for the last year my other go to has been the Defense Mechanisms Helion jacket. It's a wonderfully made garment that's very versatile. As a bonus it suits my humor, Defense Mechanisms is Enlightened Equipment.
Thanks for the tip!!
This seriously brings out my inner gear nerd. Everyone worries about PC, helmet and stuff like that but ignores the important life saving stuff
Keem em coming! I'm throughly enjoying these videos.
I appreciate these videos. Great information that helps me deal with Colorado mountain weather.
Glad you like them!
I've been wearing the same simple, nylon smock (an MEC Rad shirt, i think) for many years -- so comfortable, versatile and durable. And while i've seen *many* vids on layering for the weather, yours is the first ever to cover this obvious component. My only variance from your recommendation is that my wind layer will almost always go over the insulation layer (if present).
Duluth trading makes good every day wear
Your statement at 3:00 is so right.
Great content.
Re-watching the series. Thanks for answering my question from the base layer video about the recommend fabric of a field shirt. Just need to add a hood to it.
Nate
A good and valid points in the video but one concern in a tactical setting is most of not all garments shown are made of materials which are not good around flames. As brit and ex soldier I can't recommend the brittish smock which does exactly the same job and is a flame retardant and hard wearing system. Usually worn in the field with just a base layer and when you stop you just chuck a warm layer on.
The wind layer is the best layer that I never knew I needed until I was given a Patagonia PCU level 5 for free. What I was confused on, was that I thought these were insulated, and was kind of bummed to find out until I learned why.
I now also have the Outdoor Research Ferrosi that you mentioned, and I love that layer as well. I think I could stuff two of them into a Nalgene bottle.
I understand that it’s a little, limited in availability, but the USMC “combat jacket” has always been my personal favorite outer layer, gortex material, but has breathable vents down the sides, sleeves are lined with grid fleece, as is just the collar, built in neck gaiter(super thin). Overall I like it, very comfy, very light, can pretty much be warn in all weathers I’ve found
That's so nice, The army just get crappy gear and nothing nice like the USMC does
@@TheSlayer. that is one thing I will say, is the gear the marines physically wear is pretty damn good.
The Combat Jacket doesn’t have pit zips, and has a weird fit.
@@JEJAK5396 so it doesn’t have pit zips, it just has that breathable stretchy stuff, I like the fit of it, but I’m also a thinner small guy, not saying you’re not, it’s just that I’m tiny personally and it fits me well
As someone who has a fair amount of use on the marine combat jacket, its not that great. Its a decent stand alone piece for desert environments, but is inferior to proper layering. The insulation on the arms is one of its shortcomings, you dont want insulation in a shell layer. Its also tighter fitting, which is what you want in a base layer but not a shell. Like most things designed by the Marines (speaking from 5 years AD), its ok but inferior to what the other branches design and use.
The baggy/fitted issue can be really easily fixed by having multiple size adjustment loops. In fact you can even diy this, either through sewing some on yourself or by tying stuff over it (belt, pieces of cord or some sort of stretchy ribbon over shoulders and chest, arms, and forearms, then just wave arms around so enough fabric slides out to give you full rom) and you're good to go :)
I personally really enjoyed this feature in helikon's products from bushcraft line and I wish more service-oriented gear had so much adjustments you can easily set up on the go.
Great video series.
I’d like to see a video about pants.
More of these videos guys, great job 👍
More to come!
Thanks for the information, very useful for myself as a newer backpacker
The Hill People Gear also has a Coyote Ruff collar that velcros on as well….never mind , you covered it
Good video thanks for the sizing information on the Hill People Wind Cheater, Ive wanted one for ages (with the real fur ruff)
Thank you for making me a better minute man
Great presentation, clear, concise information. Thank you Sir
ORC Level 5’s are going to be very hard to find. If they are at a local surplus store better scoop that up. A more cost effective equivalent would be the ACU Level 5 or OCP Level 5. Those are more likely to be found at a surplus store.
Definitely a good point.
it was the civilian outdoor industry who revolutionized the military cold weather wear. not the other way around. materials such as fleece, gore tex, soft shell, gore wind stopper, polartec, NYCO (NYlon COtton), POLYCO (POLY COtton), etc. brands such as arcteryx, the north face kelty, etc. come from the civilian outdoor industry. the military adopted it when the 1st generation military ECWCS (Extreme Cold Weather Clothing System) was made. compare that to traditional military issued cold weather gear from the 40’s to the 90’s that were made of waxed cotton, wool or acrylic. even military backpack design were made by the civilian outdoor industry. compare that to the traditional LC-2 cotton rucksacks with just a "kidney pad" for hip suspension, but most of the time didn't even have suspension at all, just shoulder straps. give credit to whom it is due...
This is true, the private sector comes up with a lot of the innovation that the military uses for materials and skills. The military has long looked to the mountaineering community like when they used David Brower’s manual on ski-mountaineering to train troops for mountain warfare in WW2, and eventually had Brower training them and leading them in combat.
Extremely useful content, thank you🤙🏼🪖🏞️🏔️
The OR ferrosi is probably their best product. I have several , but wish they'd leave the design alone. They improved the fit 2years ago but decided to lengthen the sleeves , add a thumbhole, and delete half the cuff elastic. They also used to make the APEX Ferrosi and the Prevail? ( which was NIR MasGrey or MC).
Those were my exact complaints about the new design of the Ferrosi. I wish they would have left the cuff the way it was. I am not a fan of thumbholes.
Do you like wear yours as an outer jacket or do you keep it one above your base layer as discussed in the video? Got a ferossi myself this year and have been experimenting with best uses.
@@tropicalpines4585 it's the outer until it gets really wet or windy . I size it to go over a base and mid layer like a grid or 300 weight fleece quarter zip. A lighter puffy like a thermoball or beyond clutch will work under it in a pinch too.
I have the Helium jacket and it's my favorite outer layer. Outdoor research fucks and is a more reasonably priced brand over acrteryx or other related outdoorsy/tactical wear.
Otte gear wind shirt is the best 👌
A lot of good info, thank you.
I have the entire PCU and ECWCS series including the sub variants that came after the oficial levels. Id like to recommend Polartec Alpha (level 3A) since its really soft, lightweight and breathable as a very light soft-shell that may be used instead of a level 4 windbreaker coupled with something else underneath. In the end its all about personal preference but level 3A is a good option. 3B is also great lighter weight alternative to a more goretex oriented top.
Great video!!!
Thank you!!
One to add, especially for those looking to cut weight and bulky: the TRC Outdoors Cierzo Shirt.
It's a lot like those ultrarunner type windshirts you mentioned, but will fit around (under or over) tactical gear. It has no pockets and the hood is (in my opinion) pretty poor, but it certainly cuts the wind without overheating the wearer.
Any recommendations on the kind of pants to wear?
Not cotton.... Legs generate a lot of heat in motion. I carry rain over pants for moving in direct rain fall. The rain pants also function as an extra layer if I have to remain overnight outside.
It's the layer that hold the fart close to your body...
That’s the sleeping bag.
Hehe
Goated comment... Im assuming you mean the tightly sealed bivvy after having the chilli mre
Hehe same stuff different density
Flavor saver
8:05 PCU L5 (Orc) vs OR Ferrosi
That ain't a level 4, that's a level 5.
@@huitzplochit Yep. Fixed. Tx.
Was Kevin with Hill People Gear previously? That majestic stache looks familiar
Yep!
Again, Thank You!
How would the PCU compare vs the Wind Cheater in terms of performance?
Main issue with the HPG Windcheater, is that they've been out of stock since around Black Friday, at least larges have been. I signed up for restock notifications, and I have yet to see one.
A lot of lightweight windjackets are not really protecting against wind, especially in lower temperatures..
Thank you.
great info brother !
Helps keep heat in and keeps cold out
Thanks!
for hunting, abrasion resistance is really important to these layers especially in like the Midwest where we have to through briars, anyone have a good suggestion for that??
I work outside in public works for a municipality. I do road repairs and trash and recycling.
How durable are these pieces?
Awesome jacket
that Delta Bag though...
Why does the wind layer need to fit over your insulating layer? In what circumstances would you wear it that way?
Off topic, but I’d love to know what make and model watch you are wearing. Thanks!
I sold my orc industries pcu...I regret it daily. Definitely not gonna find it at a surplus store, it's a unicorn.
well done.
What do you think of the Kifaru wind jacket?
wonder what victoria outside has to say
So is the wind layer supposed to go under or ower a puffy or both i got a bit confused
I kind of wish HPG had their version of the First Spear Smock. It was a toss up for me between the smock and the hpg windcheater since ya'll have the zipper for the coyote ruff. I ended up getting the smock instead and added my own zipper to it so I can add the HPG ruff.
best of both worlds, right? 🕵🏻
Tactical hipster?
This is a concept that your mom had with you when you were 8 but you weren't listening.
Dope
The Hill People Gear Wind Cheater Jacket has been out of stock on the HPG website for months. Does anyone know any other distributers that have the jacket in stock?
I have had very good luck using the Firstlite Corrugate Guide Jacket for the same applications. I love these new videos ya'll are doing.
I'm struggling to find "wind layer" products outside of what's been mentioned here. What sort of materials should I look out for that fits this category mostly?
Most of the time, they’re just soft shell jackets without a fleece backing. To name a few: Arcteryx Gamma LT, Mountain Hardwear Kor Airshell, Patagonia Houdini, Beyond Clothing Ventum, Beyond Clothing Rig Light
@@Forget-Me-Knot awesome, thanks!
Yeah as above, they're just a single layer of nylon with DWR, usually no hood, pockets for function but too light to need pit zips. Like the old "warm up" jackets but breathable. Not too light but certainly not heavy. To be used as the lihgtest "outer" layer
Question for Kevin or anyone: if we’re wearing something as simple as a backpack, that’s going to block moisture transfer - ultimately leaving our base layer and wind layer wet. So if that’s the case, why not just wear a rain layer and open up the front and pit zips? Then carry a spare baselayer and puff layer to change into once static or zip everything up
On the rain coat and trap that heat if it’s a short static stay. It’s less things to carry around or wear ultimately. Maybe I’m approaching this wrong? Only cause I went rucking yesterday and my entire back baselayer and wind layer remained soaked for 2-3 hours where it contacted my pack. That’s why I started thinking, hey if I’m going to get soaked anyways, let me just plan to change into dry base layers and puff up and if I need a rain layer, I have that jacket that I was wearing around. I hope my question makes sense, looking for any feed back. Thanks all 😊
The first reason to not wear the rain jacket is that it is not going to be as durable as the wind jacket and It's generally going to be more expensive to replace. The rain jacket is a critical item to have when you really need it, so preserving it should be a priority. If you develop a rip or tear that is beyond repair, you become more vulnerable to to the elements. The 2nd reason is that you will sweat even more with the rain jacket on. Whenever I must throw a rain jacket on, I make sure I slow my pace down to avoid sweating as much as possible. Your back is going to sweat with a pack on no matter what, but using a proper windlayer will reduce the amount of sweat that you would have with a rain jacket on. If you are still sweating too much, consider shedding the windlayer and just using the baselayer.
@@kevinmcdowell3446 I really didn’t consider any of these things. That was genuinely very insightful. Thanks man!!!!
Can I wear a plate carrier over the Wind Cheater V2? Is that an okay thing to do or not recommended?
You can do that no problem.
You don’t wear a mid layer like a fleece over you base layer then an outer layer which would be either a soft shell or hard shell?
No, the whole idea of the “mid-layer” comes from when the best insulation mountaineers had was fleece, which is not very weather resistant, the rainshell would go over the fleece to trap the warmth in. Modern puffy jackets have a pretty weather resistant shell, so most the time you don’t need to layer anything over them. If you are static, you can just put the puffy jacket over everything you are wearing and just take it off when it’s time to move again. I will break down a lot of this in the insulation layer video.
I’m not saying the idea of the mid-layer is wrong and there are applications for it, but most the time, it will be less efficient when constantly dealing with changing activity levels and time spent changing can have negative effects on your mission.
Wool and fleece*
@@kevinmcdowell3446 ok looking forward to the insulation video.
To re-iterate you don’t do a base layer, mid layer, outer shell(soft or hard shell)?
I’m actually looking for a layering system that geared towards working outside. IMO opinion I believe folks like yourself, hiking, camping and military have the best concepts for a cold weather layering system.
At work I would be moving a lot with short stints of being static.
👍
Kevin - for colder temps, if you’re normally wearing a windshirt what weight baselayer are you generally pairing it with? Does the weight increase of the baselayer when it gets colder outside even when paired with the windshirt?
Watch the base layer vid, he adjust base layer based on temps
I’m going to stick with a midweight baselayer most of the time.
Depends on temps and your activity. I wear military issue level 1 and level 2 and an outer shell and moving a lot. This keeps me warm to the mid teens.
@@MarcP5267 Yes exactly. Light or midweight base layer or both, under the wind layer. All I need for cool weather or being active in cold, to a degree
I love my Patagonia Houdini. It's a tight fit though so try it on and go up in size if necessary. You won't want to bushwack in it but it works well under many other conditions. At around 4 oz it's light in the pack. 🤡
“The fashion industry…”
It’s Arc’teryx, we all know it. It’s ok to blame them. They created a monster.
Many are guilty….
@@kevinmcdowell3446 John Barlow from Sitka recommends putting the wind layer over the active insulation layer which is over the base layer. Just curious as to why you do it differently? He’s more hunting focused but I’m looking for a more tactical approach
They may be one of the best known but definitely not the worst offender, they at least tell you the fit and have several different cuts depending on the line it's in. I've ordered shell pants and jackets from other outdoor companies in my usual size that end up looking like skinny jeans and can't be used with a base layer which makes them useless unless it's spring/summer.
@@joel553009 depends on the weather conditions and your output level.
When will the insulation layer be coming out?
Next winter most likely.
Why are you calling the PCU Level 5 Softshell a "Wind layer"? Isnt that confusing because theirs already the Level 4 which is meant for wind?
What M81 pack is that over his left shoulder?
Spiritus Systems Delta Bag
Kevin, just to firm up on sizing for the Windcheater. I wear a MR generally but can wear a LR jacket. Should stick with a medium or up size to a large or will I be swamped ?
For size reference I am 6'2" 195lbs. I normally wear a Medium Tall in issued military gear. I could get by with a medium windcheater with a more snug fit, but Large is optimal for me to layer over stuff.
@@kevinmcdowell3446 I am 5’8” 165lbs. I’ll be patient and wait for medium to restock. Thanks for the reply
Great series of videos by the way
@@calmolly1 Thank you! Medium should work for you.
@@kevinmcdowell3446hey Kevin, maybe you could help me out. I usually wear a Large in LEAF and other gear and also my shirts. Wore a wind cheater in large and it is okay with a midweight baselayer but I can’t layer a light fleece for example underneath. Is that okay or would you recommend sizing up to get another layer under the wind cheater? You also mentioned throwing another over the wind cheater instead of underneath. Appreciate your answer🙏🏻
Thoughts on windbreaker under field shirt?
I would layer a windlayer over the fieldshirt rather than under. If it got too hot I would want to strip down to the field shirt rather than strip down to the windlayer. I actually did this in Idaho this year and it worked well.
@@kevinmcdowell3446 Definitely would be faster to take off the windbreaker vs having to take fieldshirt off to remove it and then put it back on. My only thing is durability
I wear a combat shirt (with a t shirt and tank top under) under a field top/shirt or blouse.
Next layer vid soon?
Soon!
Would wearing a base layer, mid layer and than the wind cheater be ok? I know you said you would wear the wind cheater directly over just the base layer.
That’s what I do and haven’t had a problem. It’s cut generously enough to wear 2 layers underneath.
If you are moving, I would not. If you get too hot, (Which you will) you have to take off your windcheater, take off your mid-layer, and put your windcheater back on again. To me that is highly inefficient when I can throw my puffy jacket on over everything and just take it off when I’m ready to move again. It’s fine to wear the windcheater over the insulation layer if you are doing some type of low activity camp chore and need to protect your puffy layer from being torn up, but if you are on the move, stacking up or stacking down a layer is going to be more time and energy efficient, as well as keeping you more comfortable.
@@kevinmcdowell3446 Listen to this man and not me since he’s in all the HPG pics and obviously uses the gear more and in more extreme conditions. I usually dress to be cold when I first start my trek and then comfortable for the majority of the activity, and maybe warm enough at peak activity levels to unzip my Windcheater, but never so warm that I need to take layers off. I also never was in cold enough weather to need a really big puffer in addition to the Windcheater (if it’s that cold or precipitating that much I forgo the Windcheater).
@Kevin McDowell I think it depends on the mid layer. An active mid layer with polartec alpha would work well.
Anything affordable?
Go to the surplus store. You will find something.
Thats a good looking flannel. What shirt is that?
Not sure of the model but it's Mountain Hardwear
@@kevinmcdowell3446 Thanks
We need wet weather later!
Hill People Windcheater jacket is $250. If I am spending that much, it better be a rain jacket, too.
There are other options that are less expensive than the windcheater, It's just an example that I like.. The problem with a rain jacket is that they are not breathable enough for active use, so it would defeat the purpose if it was a rain jacket too.
Number 16
Kevooooo
How do you shoot, move and communicate? Lol
Is this a general question or specific to cold weather?
Gortex exits
then there is my finnish ass sweting in -15 with hoodie and jacket over it
and i mean -15°C
Lol this dude is a shill, he's literally on the hill people gear website... should probably disclose these relationships because when you don't it absolutely destroys your credibility
I said in the first video I used to work for Hill People Gear. I no longer work for HPG and don’t have to say anything about them. I still like the product, so I’m going to talk about it.
Credibility untouched.
@@kevinmcdowell3446 lol ok shill
Kuiu or kifaru?
What about the windcheater jacket makes it abrasion resistant as well as wind resistant? Is there something in the materials or tags that we should be looking for if we want to find something comparable?
it was the civilian outdoor industry who revolutionized the military cold weather wear. not the other way around. materials such as fleece, gore tex, soft shell, gore wind stopper, polartec, NYCO (NYlon COtton), POLYCO (POLY COtton), etc. brands such as arcteryx, the north face kelty, etc. come from the civilian outdoor industry. the military adopted it when the 1st generation military ECWCS (Extreme Cold Weather Clothing System) was made. compare that to traditional military issued cold weather gear from the 40’s to the 90’s that were made of waxed cotton, wool or acrylic. even military backpack design were made by the civilian outdoor industry. compare that to the traditional LC-2 cotton rucksacks with just a "kidney pad" for hip suspension, but most of the time didn't even have suspension at all, just shoulder straps. give credit to whom it is due...
I never said the military revolutionized cold weather wear.